Why do some people consider TNBA distinct from B:TAS

[Zero X Marquis]

I really would like an answer. I've been reading on Wikipedia that some people don't consider it the same show as the art forms are different and what have you. Despite all evidence to the contrary, people still hold this notion? (I understand that position when it was first made... but now?) I don't know if this is considered a touchy subject area here, and I really don't want to start a flame war (if that's the case, lock it and be done with it) but I just want to hear the logic behind such a dubious claim.

Edit: The error is mine, but when I said distinct, I meant seperate in continuity. (as in they don't connect to each other, but TNBA is more of a "what if" to B:TAS)

[CyberCubed]

Technically, isn't TNBA considered a seperate series with the episode number restarting at #1?

It's really just the last season of B:TAS, as proven by the DVD boxsets, but I think the episode numbering may have something to do with it.

Just like JLU restarts the numbering from JL.

[The Penguin]

I think it comes down non-acceptance of the style changes without "in-show" reason. I disagree with those people btw.

[Wolf Boy2]

I read that on Wikipedia a few months ago, and I chalk it up to ignorence, mostly. Those people flaming on Wikipedia said a lot of stupid things, like how "WB messed up this Fox property when they bought it, and how the new producers were not as good as the old ones and stupid crap like that. I added some smart comments, but I was ignored.

I can see how people with fond memories of B:TAS would dislike TNBA when it was on TV, but now with both shows on DVD, it is easier to appriciate TNBA. I, personally, prefer TNBA.

The artistic changes in TNBA are understandable, when you watch B:TAS on DVD (where the animation mistakes are brutally visable). TNBA eps like "Over the Edge" would not have looked so good in B:TAS style. As b.t. pointed out, the B:TAS characters always looked rubbery. Also, the Joker was constantly off-model. The TNBA Joker had problems, but the ROTJ / JL version was the absolute best.

[Revelator]

I just want to hear the logic behind such a dubious claim.
There isn't much, because that claim depends on the opposite of logic. It's based on an illogical emotional attachment to BTAS that denies that its characters could change. TNBA is in the same continuity as BTAS and it has the same producers as BTAS (Dini, Timm, Burnett--only Eric Radomski was absent). The writing staff was somewhat different, and the characters obviously looked different, or had reworked motivations. That's about it. And unlike recastings in live action, when TNBA Batman replaces BTAS Bats, he's still got the same voice and basic personality, as opposed to an example like Sean Connery's James Bond being replaced by George Lazenby's. In any case, had I a license to kill, some of the ignorant twits on wikipedia wouldn't be posting their garbage comments...

[JSmith]

TNBA and BTAS are different shows. How could you deny that? While TNBA is an extension of BTAS, it is significantly changed from it. Obviously the New Look designs are vastly different from the originals. The mood is totally different too as TNBA is more of an action/adventure show and less of a crime noir drama as BTAS had been. Batgirl's personality was completely different from the character in Heart of Steel or Shadow of the Bat. Batman himself was darker and grimmer with a much colder heart, though everything else about the show was much lighter. The creators themselves see the 2 shows as being different. They said that they had grown tired of doing the dark shows and wanted to do a Batman show that was lighter and more fun. The differnces are blatant and obvious. Now, both shows were of high quality and I have found myself leaning toward the TNBA shows the more I watch and compare the two. TNBA did have several fantastic, dark stories such as Over the Edge, Old Wounds, Growing Pains and Mad Love. So while both shows were well done, they ARE different shows though they come from the same fertile soil.

[James]

I think while TNBA is an evolution from BTAS, there are many who still see BTAS as working perfectly well on it's own, devoid of the TNBA OR any of the other DCAU forms.

To some extent I can see that. There is a cinematic beauty and consistency to BTAS which makes it work as it's own machine, but also, it does also make a great spring board to an entire canon. I don't think, barring design changes, there are that many differences between TNBA and BTAS aside from a change on emphasis away from villain origin to more nonfocused storytelling. It's still pretty cinematic in it's direction and it's artwork still has an art deco edge. It's not watered down either; some of the episodes are the darkest Batman stories period.

Yes, BTAS can be seperated for it's own posterity, but I think too much is made of the differences.

[Wolf Boy2]

TNBA and BTAS are different shows. How could you deny that? While TNBA is an extension of BTAS, it is significantly changed from it. Obviously the New Look designs are vastly different from the originals. The mood is totally different too as TNBA is more of an action/adventure show and less of a crime noir drama as BTAS had been. Batgirl's personality was completely different from the character in Heart of Steel or Shadow of the Bat. Batman himself was darker and grimmer with a much colder heart, though everything else about the show was much lighter. The creators themselves see the 2 shows as being different. They said that they had grown tired of doing the dark shows and wanted to do a Batman show that was lighter and more fun. The differnces are blatant and obvious. Now, both shows were of high quality and I have found myself leaning toward the TNBA shows the more I watch and compare the two. TNBA did have several fantastic, dark stories such as Over the Edge, Old Wounds, Growing Pains and Mad Love. So while both shows were well done, they ARE different shows though they come from the same fertile soil.
Actually, they started doing lighter stories back in the later seasons of B:TAS (when it was renamed "The Adventures of Batman and Robin").

I don't see how Batgirl was any different in TNBA than she was in B:TAS. B:TAS never really explored her. She was only in four episodes (two in costume, two out). "Shadow of the Bat" introduced her flirtatious relationship with Robin. "Batgirl Returns" continued the Robin angle while introducing her crush on Batman (which would be highlighted in "Mystery of the Batwoman"). "Old Wounds" continued these themes from B:TAS, and explained why the characters changed and evolved the way they did.

How was TNBA lighter than B:TAS? I listened to all of the commentaries, and never once did the creators say TNBA was lighter. The creators referred to TNBA as the "re-vamped episodes [of BTAS]".

I suspect that if the style had not changed (or if the show had not been on 2 years hiatus) there would have been no question whether they were the same.

[Wingmuffin]

ONe of my pet theories about Batman's costume change is that he started initially with the yellow oval-less costume (As seen in Robin's Reckoning), then switched to the yellow oval when Robin began fighting alongside him (Robin might have even suggested his costume needed more color), then switched back when Robin left (Although "Old Wounds" shows Bats wearing the oval-less suit when Robin's still there, the Lost Years comic shows the yellow oval costume). Then he just decided to stick with the oval-less costume from TNBA til the end.

[JSmith]

If you do some googling you will find interviews with the creators as they speak of TNBA. Dan Riba is on record as saying TNBA is lighter and funner than BTAS. If you look at the Arkham Asylum feature on the dvd box set you will see him reference that. James Tucker is on record saying that TNBA is his favorite season of the show as it is the closest to the Adam West Batman that he loves so much. Bruce Timm himself is on record saying that the 2 are different shows in his opinion. You cannot argue with the fact that they ARE different, yet they come from the same source material. TNBA is an extension of BTAS, yet it is it's own creature. Saying that they are different is not the same as saying one is better than the other. They both have their share of stinkers and some truly masterful episodes as well. So don't worry about what flamers say about either show. If you enjoy what you're watching, who cares what anyone else has to say about it?

[Wolf Boy2]

Yeah, I guess so. Personally, I thought TNBA was darker and more death-oriented than B:TAS. "Kill" and "Oh my God" were used in nearly every episdoe. There was a lot of blood, serious injuries and even dead bodies. Not to mention blatent sexual content ("Don't you want to rev up your Harley", "Take the night off, let's play" or "You used to only wear outfits like that for me!").

I guess if Dan Riba and b.t. said it than that makes it fact. Still... I disagree completely.

[Mynd Hed]

Umm, maybe because the two shows have different animation styles, overall tone, title sequences, and for crying out loud, different NAMES?

I seriously don't get where this idea comes from that just because TNBA maintains continuity with B:TAS, they must be the same show. Or where the idea comes from that just because someone maintains that they ARE different shows, they must be "dissing" TNBA.

I look at them as being like Star Trek: The Next Generation and Star Trek: Deep Space 9. They shared many of the same creators, cast members, and two main characters along with several minor ones. It was obviously very important to both the creators and the fans to maintain plot continuity between the two of them. But in all of Trek fandom, have you ever known ANYONE to try to make the argument that, because of this plot continuity and other similarities, DS9 should be considered "the next seven seasons" of TNG and the two should be considered the same show? No. That's ridiculous.

Like TNBA, hate it, ignore it, whatever. But don't try to tell me it's part of B:TAS except in the same way that any spinoff exists in the same "universe" as its originator. DS9 is not TNG, Frasier is not Cheers, and TNBA is not B:TAS. Simple as that.

[Tiny Toon Fan]

I guess I am one of those people who prefer the look and style of BTAS over TNBA. And yes I was upset with the changes when they took place. But I think what people need to understand is that BTAS was established for 5 years before TNBA debuted. The changes came as a shock to me and to many of my friends and people I talked with at my local comic shop. I can view TNBA with a new appreciation today but I still think BTAS was the better show, inconsistent animation and all. I can't help it, I BTAS was first and it was the show that got me exiceted about Batman all over again.

[Simon Trent]

I consider TNBA different from BTAS because it has a different name.

[Dusty]

It's the same thing i think with STAS and JL, but to me Batman doesn't change much design wise (in JL i think his design is a mix between BTAS/TNBA) so it works with me,



D.

[Revelator]

Cartoon network got away with running TNBA episodes under the BTAS title sequence and credits, to me that helps accentuate that TNBA can be treated as the revamped third series of BTAS. It's a continuation of the same show, under a different name, with a few different designs, and a few characters who have slightly changed over time. It can stand on its own, but so can the second series of BTAS, which also had a (slightly) revamped look and aired under a different name. In both cases, each series loses impact if it does stand alone, because both reference events and characters from the first series of BTAS, and they star the same characters, which mostly isn't the case with the Star Trek spinoffs. Despite what Tucker says, TNBA is also farthest away from the Adam West series, which never included episodes like Over the Edge, Growing Pains or Mad Love. (And frankly, episodes like Critters and Beware The Creeper, though humorous, don't really fit into the West show's brand of poker-faced camp). My philosophy is to trust the tales even more than their tellers. If the show's producers can oscillate between calling it the revamped series and a different show, maybe that simply means it's both. Technically and in letter it's a different series, but it's also a revamped continuation of the old one in spirit, not a reboot or recreation.

[Zero X Marquis]

The error is mine, but when I said distinct, I meant seperate in continuity. (as in they don't connect to each other, but TNBA is more of a "what if" to B:TAS)

[cameronpoe1986]

No, TNBA is definitely a continuation of BTAS, and not a "what if" scenario. No argument there. The DCAU is a pretty fluid continuity, and everything is connected, for the most part.

[Darknight66]

I like both BTAS and TNBA (though I prefer BTAS) and I definatly consider them in the same continuity, but I think of them as two seperate shows, for me BTAS ended with "Batgirl Returns" (or "The Lion And The Unicorn" depending on what order you mean) and TNBA began with "Holiday Knights" , if they were the same show, why would this site have two seperate sections for each show ?

[Anwar]

I consider TNBA to be the sequel series to B:TAS. Not the same, one is a few years after the other. Like Zeta Gundam and Gundam 0079.

B:TAS ended with "Sub-Zero", TNBA takes place around 3 or so years later.

[Bat-Man]

If the new batman adventures is done with same look as batman: TAS everywhone would consider them the same shows.
So it's just little change, but it's the same, like music, story continue...
Change in look is because producers ''freshen'' package of Batman to combine it with Superman:TAS ! ! !