Japanese VAs overrated?

[Timmay]

Am I the only one in the entire anime community who thinks that you can't really tell how good a VA is if you have next to nothing in terms of understanding of his or her language. I swear I must be the only one, I can't count the arguments that I've been in with people where they've spoke of "Seiyuu" as gods and their English counterparts as people ruining a good thing.

[Beat]

You're right. But then again, anything can sound exotic and well done if you can't understand it.

[Go-chin]

I think that's a valid point, but not the whole.

I mean, not all of One Piece's Japanese VAs have extremely well done voices, but you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that they're better than anything the US dub has to offer.

Though that's a pretty blatant observation.

[Gokou Ruri]

I mean, not all of One Piece's Japanese VAs have extremely well done voices, but you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that they're better than anything the US dub has to offer. You're opinion doesn't equal fact, you know. I much prefer Marc Diraison to Kazuya Nakai to Zoro. Then again, I don't like Kazuya Nakai's voice to begin with, since I also prefer Steve Blum as Mugen as well. Also John Maggio as Wakka instead of Mr. Nakai.

[GWOtaku]

Am I the only one in the entire anime community who thinks that you can't really tell how good a VA is if you have next to nothing in terms of understanding of his or her language.
No. Glad I could help. :p

[Naraku-Sama]

Am I the only one in the entire anime community who thinks that you can't really tell how good a VA is if you have next to nothing in terms of understanding of his or her language. I swear I must be the only one, I can't count the arguments that I've been in with people where they've spoke of "Seiyuu" as gods and their English counterparts as people ruining a good thing.
I used to think like that, however, I realized that it is not all about "understanding what they are saying". For example, I do notice that a great number of Japanese voice actors tend to yell, groan, moan, scream, strain, etc better and more "real" than a lot of american voice actors. I am not saying that every Japanese VA is automatically better than even the best American VA, it is just that they DO tend to act/sound more "real" or with more "soul" a lot of times. Of course, some of this is my opinion.

Peace

[HellCat]

Am I the only one in the entire anime community who thinks that you can't really tell how good a VA is if you have next to nothing in terms of understanding of his or her language. I swear I must be the only one, I can't count the arguments that I've been in with people where they've spoke of "Seiyuu" as gods and their English counterparts as people ruining a good thing.

It's a vaild point and one I've wondered about whilst watching shows. However, I agree with the notion that good acting is universal. There have been times when I could tell a Japanese VA was delivering a hammy performance just as easily as when listening to an English one.
There are actors like Seki Tomokazu who I think deserve all the praise they get.

[AstroNerdBoy]

Am I the only one in the entire anime community who thinks that you can't really tell how good a VA is if you have next to nothing in terms of understanding of his or her language. I swear I must be the only one, I can't count the arguments that I've been in with people where they've spoke of "Seiyuu" as gods and their English counterparts as people ruining a good thing.

It has nothing to do with "understanding" the language, in this case Japanese. It has EVERYTHING to do with making the character come alive.

When I first started watching anime, I wanted to watch everything in English. This was because English is my native language and it is only natural to not want to read subtitles. So even though I saw Ah! My Goddess OAV and Hand Maid May in Japanese originally, when I purchased the DVD's I watched them in English.

Love Hina changed all that. The voices used for the series absolutely grated on my nerves with Kitsune being the worst with that faux Southern accent. *shudder* After starting the 3rd or 4th DVD, I'd had enough. I couldn't stand hearing these VA's speak. It sounded awful. I switched to the Japanese audio w/ subtitles and it was an amazing difference. The voices didn't grate on my nerves. In fact, the Japanese audio had the seiyuu bringing personality and life to the characters that the English VA's weren't even sorta close to doing.

However, I attempted to continue watching anime in English. Neon Genesis Evangelion was OK when I rented it, but Shinji's VA got on my nerves and I'd never even watched the Japanese version of this. So when I was done with the final movie, I decided to re-watch it in Japanese. It took some getting used to the "new" voices, but I immediately saw that I didn't despise Shinji nearly as much in the Japanese version. I would later re-watch the entire series in Japanese and felt that the Japanese seiyuu were superior to the American VA's.

Now can there be good English dubs? Of course. All of the Miyazaki-sensei movies that Disney has released have excellent dubs. I prefer the Japanese still, but not due to voice quallity, but rather to get the story as the Japanese told it (Disney's bloody subtitles aside). In Big O, I rather enjoy the American VA for the lead character over the Japanese one. The other VA's did a pretty good job (IMO) of bringing to life the characters in the way the Japanese did. Ditto FLCL.

So the answer to your question is that for the most part, Japanese seiyuu are superior to their American counterparts, primarily in bringing life to the character(s). I think this is partly due to the training they get in Japan and partly how they record the voice track in Japan.

[Duke]

So the answer to your question is that for the most part, Japanese seiyuu are superior to their American counterparts, primarily in bringing life to the character(s). I think this is partly due to the training they get in Japan and partly how they record the voice track in Japan.
Actually, I think it's up to the director. Fruits Basket's English dub > the Japanese dub in more ways than one. Dub Kazuki from Maburaho can actually emote, whereas his Japanese VA can't, Mark Oliver & Trevor Devall are superior to the Japanese VAs for Rau and Mu, and then there's the mess in DBZ.

The only Japanese dub I've heard where the Japanese voices > English voices easily has been Shaman King. Pokémon's about even in the voice department, and Detective Conan's dub is mixed, as some voices are even (Conan, Rachel) while some trump the Japanese voice easily (Richard).

[HellCat]

Actually, I think it's up to the director. Fruits Basket's English dub > the Japanese dub in more ways than one. Dub Kazuki from Maburaho can actually emote, whereas his Japanese VA can't, Mark Oliver & Trevor Devall are superior to the Japanese VAs for Rau and Mu, and then there's the mess in DBZ.

The only Japanese dub I've heard where the Japanese voices > English voices easily has been Shaman King. Pokémon's about even in the voice department, and Detective Conan's dub is mixed, as some voices are even (Conan, Rachel) while some trump the Japanese voice easily (Richard).

Let us not forget the awful sound that is Kira Yamato's original VA attempting to cry.

[Go-chin]

You're opinion doesn't equal fact, you know. I much prefer Marc Diraison to Kazuya Nakai to Zoro. Then again, I don't like Kazuya Nakai's voice to begin with, since I also prefer Steve Blum as Mugen as well. Also John Maggio as Wakka instead of Mr. Nakai.
In this case, it does. I'm talking about overall, not just one character.

And it's "your."

...and Nakai did Wakka? Holy crap. That doesn't fit at all. John Maggio is much better. xD

[KuwabaraTheMan]

You're opinion doesn't equal fact, you know. I much prefer Marc Diraison to Kazuya Nakai to Zoro. Then again, I don't like Kazuya Nakai's voice to begin with, since I also prefer Steve Blum as Mugen as well. Also John Maggio as Wakka instead of Mr. Nakai.

What? Diraison is decent but he can't even touch Nakai, who is perfect as Zoro.

Diraison's performance lacks the unique comedy that is present in Zoro's character, and is no where near emotional enough for Zoro.

Anyways, it is the case that there are times where a Japanese voice is better, and times an English voice is better. Mark Olliver's Rau Le Crueset stands out, as does the entire cast of Yu Yu Hakusho and Cowboy Bebop. Steven Jay Blum's Zabuza is another noteworthy voice.

And there are times like One Piece, Pokemon, Yugioh, hell all of 4Kids dubs, where all the dub voice actors are worse then the originals without exception.

[Lachesis]

It depends. The Japanese and American versions are aimed at different audiences for one thing. You have to take the culture into account, so I think it is much harder to evaluate if you only watch one version or the other exclusively. It works both ways.

A lot of it is taste and a lot of it is what you're used to. We all know Hiroaki Hirata does a better job than David Moo on Sanji. But if you want to compare Koichi Yamadera and Megumi Hayashibara to Steve Blum and Wendee Lee for Spike and Faye in Bebop, we could argue about it all night (which I've seen people do). And you know what? Both versions are great. Sometimes the performances are just *different* from each other, and that's okay.

And, no, Japanese seiyuu's are not overrated. Except for Koyasu Takehito who should never be allowed to write his own material ever again.

[Anwar]

Thing is, it's not really fair to base opinions on English voice-acting based just on dubs. Go watch some original english animation (like the DC Cartoons) and compare those performances to japanese acting in anime. IE, Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill. You saying there are japanese actors who could do Batman and Joker better than them?

[Beat]

That would mean giving the Japanese actors their own original scripts to follow, as opposed to simply dubbing over existing material. And there might be a few.

[herbkir]

I can't really tell the difference between a decent performance and a superior performance by Japanese VAs since I don't know the language, but I can pick up on a crappy performance where the seiyuu just phoned it in. I listen for the tone, pacing and inflection of the voicing for emotional cues and how those fit the character's subtitled lines and the story situation.

But I do the same when watching the dubbed version. Since I know the language, though, it's much easier to evaluate the quality of the performance.

As to the oft-stated claim that the Japanese VAs are always better than the English VAs, that's just elitist nonsense. Sometimes the Japanese track is better, sometimes the English one is. Sometimes its six of one, half a dozen of the other. And on occasion both tracks suck. (^_*)

[Go-chin]

And on occasion both tracks suck. (^_*)

*Cough Air Master cough*

[Duke]

And there are times like One Piece, Pokemon, Yugioh, hell all of 4Kids dubs, where all the dub voice actors are worse then the originals without exception.
Y'know, sometimes I wonder if Pokémon's English cast is hated on just because it's from 4Kids. If 4Kids had used the LA talent pool or Ocean Group Westwood, but still kept the same edits, same script, same music changes, etc. would people still say the voices sucked? How about if Geneon or Viz was dubbing the series the exact same way (instead of just releasing the DVDs)?

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Y'know, sometimes I wonder if Pokémon's English cast is hated on just because it's from 4Kids. If 4Kids had used the LA talent pool or Ocean Group Westwood, but still kept the same edits, same script, same music changes, etc. would people still say the voices sucked? How about if Geneon or Viz was dubbing the series the exact same way (instead of just releasing the DVDs)?

I never said they sucked, they're just worse then the Japanese voices.

Veronica Taylor is fine as Satoshi and Haruka, but she'll never be on the level of Rica Matsumoto or Kaori. That's all I'm saying.

[Gokou Ruri]

Y'know, sometimes I wonder if Pokémon's English cast is hated on just because it's from 4Kids. Are you implying there's some sort of bias attitude towards a dubbing company? That's outragious.


Thing is, it's not really fair to base opinions on English voice-acting based just on dubs. Go watch some original english animation (like the DC Cartoons) and compare those performances to japanese acting in anime. IE, Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill. You saying there are japanese actors who could do Batman and Joker better than them? You make a good point. The way anime and American cartoons are made are fundamentally different and affect the way voice acting is made. For Japanese cartoons, the animation is done first and the voices are recorded second. You pretty much have to fit all the voice into the mouth flaps or you're in trouble. Then when it's dubbed into English, you have even more limitations for having to follow the script (less you be called a bad dubbing company) and fitting the dialog into the mouth flaps.

American cartoons are different, though. The dialog is recorded first, so they can alter the script as needed and change their performance whenever they want. Then the animators can look at what the VA's did and animate accordingly (such as body movement and making mouth flaps match the words being spoken which adds subtle details to bring the characters and their acting more alive).

That's my view on why VA'ing in American cartoons tend to yeld better performances than dubbed anime. Dubbing an already exiting product that was dubbed in the similar way to begin with can be very limiting to one's talents. It's like telling Beethoven to make a good song that's 5 seconds long and includes no more than 10 specific keys he has to arrange in order.

[Duke]

It's like telling Beethoven to make a good song that's 5 seconds long and includes no more than 10 specific keys he has to arrange in order.
Well, Beethoven WAS a master of improv. And his most famous symphony has a melody of 4 notes that are constantly manipulated...

[Bunai]

i agree with the first post.
i don't think the japanese sound more "REAL" as it was put in one post.
thats not the point VAing...its to exagerrate your voice from what you would normally hear in real life.

[Tash]

Y'know, sometimes I wonder if Pokémon's English cast is hated on just because it's from 4Kids. If 4Kids had used the LA talent pool or Ocean Group Westwood, but still kept the same edits, same script, same music changes, etc. would people still say the voices sucked? How about if Geneon or Viz was dubbing the series the exact same way (instead of just releasing the DVDs)? Personally, I think that a lot of the Japanese voices are very bland-sounding. The dub voices are much more distinguishable. (Misty was, by far, the biggest improvment in the dub)

[Chad Bonin]

Yeah, Japanese VAs are overrated.

They can't even speak American.

[anime_guru]

I think this topic is finally bordering on the seiyuu vs. dub debate. In my personal opinion (much like the consensus here...feels good to go on a forum where 15 year olds aren't whining about seiyuu are better than english VAs just because) the matter is simple-which one can act, really act. I think the issue is that in America, animation is considered by many pretty low, and sometimes it shows in the voice acting. the script can be wonderful, but the voice acting can be terrible, because, some don't care, budget, or other nuances.

Primarily, the reason why the voice acting in Japan can act a bit more to what a person would consider the character to act is how it's treated. Animation is still pretty big in Japan, and voice acting is considered not only an actual career, but an honorable one at that. I don't think that some of the American Voice Actors get that.
(exuse the overly generalized beliefs I have about animation in japan v. america)
But then I have to ask a question if I may:
If the America VAs watched/heard the Japanese VAs in the respective series beforehand, do you think it will make a difference? Further do you think that the American voice actor will perform better?

[Duke]

I don't think that some of the American Voice Actors get that.
Most regular anime VAs, like the ones in LA, Texas, Vancouver, and NYC, do get it. It's the rest of the acting community, specifically Hollywood, that thinks of it as a lesser form. Hell, that's why there's no "Best Voice Over" Oscar, because the Oscar committee doesn't see it as real acting.

[Daizaburo Estes]

while some trump the Japanese voice easily (Richard).

I LOVE Akira Kamiya(he played Ryo Saeba and KENSHIRO, for Pete's sakes!), but I'm going to have to agree with you on this. As cool as Kamiya is, I really don't like the rough "tough guy" voice he uses for Kogoro/Richard. He's not a bad VA by any stretch of the imagination, but he doesn't fit Richard at all.

[Gokou Ruri]

Well, Beethoven WAS a master of improv. And his most famous symphony has a melody of 4 notes that are constantly manipulated... That's what I get for making an analogy to a subject I don't know anything about :sweat: I don't know how to play music at all.


I think this topic is finally bordering on the seiyuu vs. dub debate. In my personal opinion (much like the consensus here...feels good to go on a forum where 15 year olds aren't whining about seiyuu are better than english VAs just because) the matter is simple-which one can act, really act. I think the issue is that in America, animation is considered by many pretty low, and sometimes it shows in the voice acting. the script can be wonderful, but the voice acting can be terrible, because, some don't care, budget, or other nuances.

Primarily, the reason why the voice acting in Japan can act a bit more to what a person would consider the character to act is how it's treated. Animation is still pretty big in Japan, and voice acting is considered not only an actual career, but an honorable one at that. I don't think that some of the American Voice Actors get that.
(exuse the overly generalized beliefs I have about animation in japan v. america)
But then I have to ask a question if I may:
If the America VAs watched/heard the Japanese VAs in the respective series beforehand, do you think it will make a difference? Further do you think that the American voice actor will perform better? It's true VAing is more of a professional career in Japan than it is here, but it's not for any of those reasons. The main reason is because there's just so much more animation in Japan than there is here, like how there's more live action stuff here. Being a VA in Japan on a popular show is the equivilant of being casted as the lead role in a primetime show on Fox or CBS here. Japan uses animation for most of its stuff while America uses live action.

[Neo-Era]

Am I the only one in the entire anime community who thinks that you can't really tell how good a VA is if you have next to nothing in terms of understanding of his or her language. I swear I must be the only one, I can't count the arguments that I've been in with people where they've spoke of "Seiyuu" as gods and their English counterparts as people ruining a good thing.

Eh, I tend to have the opposite feeling. I feel like I'm the only person in the entire anime community who thinks you can assess an individual's performance even if it is in a foreign language you don't understand. Whenever I see someone asserting "You don't speak the language so you can't tell how good the acting is", it's always an anime fan. Film critics don't seem to have that problem when watching foreign movies. If you've ever been emotionally moved by a film or tv show in a language you don't speak, there's a good chance it's because of the acting (since, after all, isn't it generally accepted that good directing, music, and special FX can't deliver a huge emotional impact if the actors aren't convincing?). If you've never had that experience, I think you haven't watched the right material.

[The Fullmetal]

Yeah, Japanese VAs are overrated.

Got that right. I know too many purist otaku who worship the Japanese VAs but despise English ones because they beleive all companies to butcher anime like 4Kids. Morons, all of them. I prefer dubs because I can actually UNDERSTAND the language. Oh, and the Japanese voices all sound the same to me.


They can't even speak American.

Neither can I. I speak English, though. ;)

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Got that right. I know too many purist otaku who worship the Japanese VAs but despise English ones because they beleive all companies to butcher anime like 4Kids. Morons, all of them. I prefer dubs because I can actually UNDERSTAND the language. Oh, and the Japanese voices all sound the same to me.

You realize that you are being just as close minded as the purist otaku you consider morons, right?

Both sides are equally at fault when it comes to this.

[Classic Speedy]

Whenever I see someone asserting "You don't speak the language so you can't tell how good the acting is", it's always an anime fan. Film critics don't seem to have that problem when watching foreign movies. That's because the live action medium, in and of itself, is easier to see someone's wide range of subtle emotions in that isn't as easily captured in animation. I mean, I could watch something like "Jesus of Montreal" and know the emotion of the characters simply by their facial expressions and body language- I don't even have to listen to their dialog. The animation medium is much different, as most of the time a character has stock expressions of "annoyed", "happy", "sad", "angry". Thus, pretty much all of a character's performance HAS to come through the VA.

That said, usually the Japanese VAs do a fine job of emoting well, especially with screaming and pain, for some reason. True, I may not know if the dialog is delivered NATURALLY because I don't understand Japanese, but the emotion is atleast there, and like you said, that's what counts.

Don't take this the wrong way, though- I love English dubs and applaud most companies' efforts. There have only been a few instances where I've turned off the English dub and switched to Japanese because it was too painful or just plain drab in my native tongue- those being Mouse, Gowcaizer, Aika, Stratos 4, Labyrinth of Flames (though I suppose that it could be argued that specific dub was done over-the-top on purpose...), and Sakura Diaries.

[The Fullmetal]

You realize that you are being just as close minded as the purist otaku you consider morons, right?

Both sides are equally at fault when it comes to this.

I see where you're coming from, however, I don't act like some of these purist people. Most of these guys are absolutely obsessed with the Japanese VAs and will literally scream in your ear for watching a dub. Perfect example - I was watching the Rurouni Kenshin TV dub on my laptop once and some guy who showed up at my club once (guess why he stopped attending) came up to me and said, "How can you be president if you watch crappy English dubs? You're not a real anime fan, you're just a wannabe," and tried to shut off my laptop. I threw his ass into the wall and told him if he ever shows up at the club again, there'll be a problem. Seriously, some of these guys need lives. I may be a huge dub fanatic (Steve Blum is God) but I don't go around bashing people who prefer subtitles.

[Tea]

Am I the only one in the entire anime community who thinks that you can't really tell how good a VA is if you have next to nothing in terms of understanding of his or her language. I swear I must be the only one, I can't count the arguments that I've been in with people where they've spoke of "Seiyuu" as gods and their English counterparts as people ruining a good thing.
Are they overrated? In my experience: hell yes.

I can't even tell you the amount of times I've come across someone complaining about English dubs and the gush over the JP version. Am I saying all English dubs are great? No. Am I highly suspicious of JP VA's being as great as English fans say they are? Yeah. I can't say how good a JP voice over is since I am unable to understand and I'll only voice a complaint about them if they're grating on my ears. However, I've RARELY seen an English speaking person complain about a JP VA for bad voice acting. They are praised but rarely criticized.

If you are one of those who can understand the quality of Japanese voice overs, which have you seen do you believe are hammy or flat out bad? Make sure to keep their character in mind... A comedy relief is SUPPOSE to sound overly exaggerated. ;)

[Luna]

Well,for the most part,I watch(and enjoy) anime dubbed in English....However,occasionally,I do watch anime in Japanese with subtitles...

My opinion is that,for the most part,both the English and Japanese voice actors do a great job with their characters...Yes,there are voice actors whose performances I don't like on each language(don't feel like naming names now),but they are few and far between...

I do however feel that Japanese VA's are overrated,because I've never really heard any of them being critizised the way English VA's have.....one thing that always bothered me is that some people complain about English VA's being unable to correctly pronounce Japanese names/words,yet noone complains about Japanese VA's being unable to do the same with English words/names...

[Kagetsu]

I started with anime on tv, so I only heard the English. In the last year I've been getting more dvd's to be able to make comparisons. I've heard good and bad on both sides. While I generally prefer English because the emotions are more easily expressed to my ears, if there are alot of female voices like Azumanga, the Japanese sounds very nice. If the show has a definite Western look, like Chrono Crusade, the Japanese feels out of place. Many of studio Ghibli films have a French feel and the added French track works very well there.

[AstroNerdBoy]

I find the argument, "I can't understand what they are saying, so I can't judge the performance" to be weak. Then again, maybe the years I spent in band has trained my ear to be better. After all, when listening to music, one has to actually listen to what is being played. There are no language requirments in listening. It is this that I base my listening to Japanese seiyuu to American VA's. Do they bring life to the character? Sometimes the American VA's take on a character makes them different from the original Japanese. Ryoko in "Tenchi Muyo!" (not OAV 3) is a prime example of this.

As for the remark that all Japanese sound the same, well either that's a racist remark or you are tone-deaf.

Ultimately it boils down to tastes. I feel that for the most part, Japanese seiyuu emote better than their American counterparts. This was something didn't happen overnight, but happened over time. Unfortunately, I think that in this debate, folks are confusing their language preference for actual quallity. As I stated, I prefered to watch in English when I first started, but that changed with Love Hina.

People want to watch in English and prefer the English VAs? Where's the problem in that? People prefer Japanese with subtitles? Again, where's the problem?

The only problem that I see is in a series like the canon Tenchi Muyo! OAV's (and GXP) where accurate translations are so important, especially since Kajishima-sensei likes throwing clues in small things. The dubs are restricted in being able to keep those whereas the subtitles aren't.

[BlackCat]

I find the argument, "I can't understand what they are saying, so I can't judge the performance" to be weak. Then again, maybe the years I spent in band has trained my ear to be better. After all, when listening to music, one has to actually listen to what is being played. There are no language requirments in listening. It is this that I base my listening to Japanese seiyuu to American VA's. Do they bring life to the character? Sometimes the American VA's take on a character makes them different from the original Japanese. Ryoko in "Tenchi Muyo!" (not OAV 3) is a prime example of this.
I agree. I used to be in band myself, so my opinion may be a little different because of it. Just like in any song, you can hear the emotion someone puts into their performance. While there are poor jobs done on both sides, there as just as many good ones. No matter the language, you can hear the nuances a VA puts into a character. Spike from Cowboy Bebop is a good example of this as well. I personally judge a VA on whether or not they fit the personality of a character. They don't need to do similar performances to capture their spirit and essence.


Ultimately it boils down to tastes. I feel that for the most part, Japanese seiyuu emote better than their American counterparts. This was something didn't happen overnight, but happened over time. Unfortunately, I think that in this debate, folks are confusing their language preference for actual quallity. As I stated, I prefered to watch in English when I first started, but that changed with Love Hina.
Like you said, some are stating their language preference instead of the overall quality of Japanese vs. English. I personally prefer the original language track, which is the Japanese VAs most of the time. While the quality is not always "the best" as some view it, they do have the advantage of playing a role in the character's inception and development. With the English VAs having to follow lip sync and stick to a more rigid script, they have less freedom. For lack of a better example, it's similar to a band playing a cover song instead of creating an original work.


People want to watch in English and prefer the English VAs? Where's the problem in that? People prefer Japanese with subtitles? Again, where's the problem?

The only problem that I see is in a series like the canon Tenchi Muyo! OAV's (and GXP) where accurate translations are so important, especially since Kajishima-sensei likes throwing clues in small things. The dubs are restricted in being able to keep those whereas the subtitles aren't.
So in the end, do I think the Japanese VAs are overrated? Yes. Both sides have their high points and flaws, such as the one you pointed out. Each group is able to incorporate the little things that can make or break an anime. Some of the Japanese VAs are also bad, but we just notice the bad English VAs more because we understand the language.