The Mixed Martial Arts Thread (UFC, etc.) [Archive]

Tapout

04-17-2006, 03:59 AM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v706/dirtbag666/ufc.jpg

It doesn't seem as if there's enough UFC/MMA fans here (yet!) to warrant a talkback for every UFC event, but hopefully if we can keep it all in one place there will be some mixed martial arts discussion here at TZ.

UFC 59 was Saturday night, and it was one of the best yet.

Results
Thiago Alves d. Derrick Noble by TKO in 2:54 of Round 1.
Jason Lambert d. Terry Martin by TKO in 2:37 of Round 2.
David Terrell d. Scott Smith by submission in 3:08 of Round 1.
Karo Parisyan d. Nick Thompson by submission in 4:44 of Round 1.
Jeff Monson d. Marcio Cruz by split decision.
Evan Tanner d. Justin Levens by submission in 3:14 of Round 1.
Tito Ortiz d. Forrest Griffin by split decision.
Sean Sherk d. Nick Diaz by unaminious decision.
Tim Sylvia d. Andrei Arlovski by TKO in 2:43 of Round 1.

Three things stuck out to me. Evan Tanner proved that Rich Frankin is pound-for-pound the baddest man on the planet. Tanner destroyed his competition, but this time last year Frankin mauled him for the title. I can't wait for a rematch between these guys.

Forrest Griffin showed he can hang with the big boys. He was getting annihilated in round 1, but went on to stuff Tito's takedowns and get the better of him on his feet. I personally scored the fight 10-8, 9-10, 9-10, but the judges didn't agree. Great fight despite the disappointing result.

And of course, how the mighty have fallen. Tim Sylvia was a huge dog coming into the fight, but displayed both that he's better than people give him credit for, and Arlovski's not as good as he's made out to be.

It seems that the scheduled Ortiz/Shamrock fight may not happen due to Tito's knee injury, and I hope that Forrest is the one to replace him should it be necessary. I doubt it'll look like Franklin/Shamrock from the TUF1 finale, but I can see Griffin defeating a 40+ year old Ken Shamrock.

Arlovski will get his rematch, but first I want to see Monson/Sylvia. There's about a foot height difference and I want to see how Monson can deal with that. He's one of the best HW's on the ground and assuming he can get Sylvia there, he can put him away.

JKDilla

04-17-2006, 06:19 PM

I've been a big fan of Forrest Griffin before he was on TUF. After all he trained with the Singer bros and has appeared in some of their instructionals. He has good all-around skills however is greatest strength is his heart and toughness. Dude can take a beating and continue to press the fight. However I thought Tito did enough to eek out the win.

I didn't like Tito calling out Randy however. If Tito had done his homework he'd have known that Couture has worked out with Matt Thornton of Straight Blast Gym in the past, and Griffin's old trainers the Singer Bros. were part of the SBG network. Couture and Griffin share mutual friends/training partners. I don't think it was necessary to call Randy like that.

I will say that Tito is good for the sport. He's a top 10 fighter who stirs the pot. It really is bad that he injured his knee because the main card in the July fight is threatened. UFC needs bankable headliners to keep up the momentum it has created. Tito, Franklin and Liddell are all injured right now. That's 3 of their most popular fighters.

Shocked is all I can say about Arlovski v Sylvia. Tim did a great job of keeping composure after Arlovski sent him to the canvas. Andrei walked right into that right and it caught him perfectly. There has to be a rematch. However I think they'll have Sylvia take on Monson first. Might as well have Andrei take on Pe De Pano or re-match Buentello for #1 contender. Tim should pick Monson apart from long range, and provided Arlovski wins they have part III.

It's good to see Evan Tanner back. I don't think he'll have a problem climbing back up to a title fight. And I think a re-match with David Loiseu should be among his come-back fights. He deserves it. However I think he doesn't match up well with Rich Franklin.

Sean Sherk presents an interesting thought at 155. But I just don't see him making that weight. And if he does I bet it will drain a lot of energy getting there. Think Joe Riggs. I see Sherk running into similiar concerns.

It was also good to see Karo back in action. Look forward to seeing him throw his hat back in the ring for the WW crown.

A good card with all the comebacks, the upset, and the Ortiz/Griffin fight. I think UFC needs to come to its senses and sign Quentin Jackson. They need fresh blood and personality in the 205 class. Rampage brings both. Plus, provided Lidell eventually beats Babalu there's another legit opponent for him.

EinBebop

04-17-2006, 06:40 PM

Just a random thought I want to throw out there: no more split decisions. They serve noone. If three professionals can't unanimously agree on who won a fight, let's call it a draw.

JKDilla

04-24-2006, 03:42 AM

UFC signs Anderson Silva!! That dude reminds me of Jose "Pele" Landi in standup ability, but not in submissions. He becomes an instant contender. He should get a tune up fight in July, then face Tanner in November. Winner of that fight faces Rich Franklin for title. I think the Tanner/Silva winner vs Ace makes a great main event for Super Bowl weekend next February. Silva's 1st fight maybe against The Crow Louiasou?

Tapout

04-24-2006, 03:52 PM

I wasn't too excited about this news because while I've heard the name, I don't really know who he is. The next fight I want to see for Loizeau is Chris Leben. Much like Forrest, Leben has torn through everyone they've put in front of him, but that isn't really saying much. I used to be very high on Loizeau, but I was very irritated by his fleeing from Rich Frankin. Leben's on his way up and the Crow doesn't deserve another title shot very soon based on his last performance. They'd be a good match for each other.

JKDilla

04-25-2006, 01:15 AM

I think you'll like Anderson Silva. Fans will like him. He's aggressive with his muay thai. He has killer instinct similiar to the fellas at Chute Boxe. However his grappling and sub skills have been in question.
He got caught by Ryo Chonan in one of the sweetest flying heel hooks I've ever seen. He's an exciting fighter.

EinBebop

04-25-2006, 09:31 AM

Tito Ortiz is out; Forrest Griffin to fight Ken Shamrock in July!!!

Tito Ortiz has had a love hate relationship with the UFC. Right now it seems the word "hate" is how the current relationship stands with Zuffa. Ortiz was set for a showdown with Ken Shamrock but it appears that fight will not happen.

UFC President Dana White announced on 1140 KHTK Sacramento radio over the weekend on the The Carmichael Dave Show that Tito pulled out of the fight with Shamrock and will now be replaced by Forrest Griffin. White said that Griffin asked for the fight. Ken and Forrest will fight July 8th at the Mandalay Bay with Andrei Arlovski and Tim Sylvia as the main event. Dana said, "It's always something" with Tito.

The UFC President also said that he scored Forrest as the winner when Griffin fought Ortiz. Zuffa CEO Lorenzo Fertitta scored it a draw with Forrest winning rounds two and three and Tito winning the first round 10-8. White was also critical of the judging saying judge Abe Balardo should never score another MMA fight again as he scored that fight 30-27 for Ortiz.

White also made some other interesting comments saying the UFC will do a Northern California show very soon and that the UFC "will be on HBO very soon. It will happen.

JKDilla

04-25-2006, 06:05 PM

If and when UFC makes it onto HBO Jim Lampley better brush up on his MMA knowledge. I was there in Chicago when he first met Arlovski. It was after Lamon Brewster KO'd Gollotta. Lampley didn't know who Arlovski was. I remember how disappointed I was.

Dana is trying to be an ass. If Tito is really hurt what's the friggin problem?

Beat

04-25-2006, 11:45 PM

Dana is pretty much a cross between Don King and Vince McMahon. Whatever sells tickets and squelches rumors is what needs to be done.

But at least no one's connecting him with the yakuza.:sweat:

JKDilla

04-27-2006, 07:13 PM

Anderson Silva vs Crow Loiesau in july for UFC 61! Called it!! This will be an exciting fight... I'm looking for Silva to get the KO in 2nd or 3rd round. There'll be some good 185 fights coming up to determine top contender till Franklin heals his hands.

Maybe Tanner should get Marquardt the former King of Pancrase next. Although since both are so good on the ground it may not be as electrifying as Silva vs Loiseau. Winner of Tanner/marquardt faces Silva/Loisaeu to be number one contender. By then Franklin should be healed.

Also can't forget about Swick, Leben and Nate Quarry. These TUF guys are on verge of being contenders I think. Jeremy Horn is here also, I almost feel like I'm doing a disservice by mentining him last. Damn the 185 is friggin thick!!!

I'm also awaiting a Bablu vs Lidell fight in the fall for the 205 crown. It would've been nice of Dana White could've landed Quentin Jackson to thicken the 205 division.

JKDilla

05-06-2006, 07:13 AM

Hughes vs Royce Gracie is in less than a month. I think I'm in the majority when I say Hughes should get a win. But this has potential to be a long lay'n'pray fest. I'm predicting this formula: - Limited trading on the feet by Royce and Hughes. - Royce shoots a takedown attempt, Hughes sprawls - the 2 are locked in clinch hell were little happens - Royce flops to guard, Matt attempts strikes from top, but Royce ties up and controls from bottom. - Ref stands em up... repeat formula

Mike Spartz

05-27-2006, 06:35 PM

http://www.ufc.com/images/header.gif

UFC 60
HUGHES VERSUS GRACIE

UFC 60 is finally here! Tonight, in a historic matchup, current UFC Welterweight Champion Matt Hughes will face UFC Hall of Famer Royce Gracie. Catch all the action on PPV at 10:00pm eastern/7:00pm pacific. Click here (http://60.ufc.com) for the official website.

OFFICIAL FIGHT CARD

MAIN EVENT
Matt Hughes Vs. Royce Gracie

TELEVISED BOUTS
Brandon Vera Vs. Assuerio Silva
Mike Swick Vs. Joe Riggs
Diego Sanchez Vs. John Alessio

UNDERCARD/PRE-RECORDED FIGHTS
Melvin Guillard Vs. Rick Davis
Spencer Fisher Vs. Matt Wiman
Alessio Sakara Vs. Dean Lister
Gabriel Gonzaga Vs. Fabiano Scherner
Jeremy Horn Vs. Chael Sonnen

Robin2099

05-27-2006, 07:27 PM

Well, this is the first UFC PPV that I have watched in awhile so hopefully Gracie/Hughes and the undercard will be worth the 40 dollars.

Tapout

05-28-2006, 01:46 AM

What an event. Almost every fight was great and somehow Hughes v. Gracie actually lived up to the hype. Awesome knockouts by Melvin Guillard and Spencer Fisher. I want to see Brandon Vera get shut up, hopefully by Jeff Monson.

Not sure yet on the TUF3 finale, as Florian v. Stout isn't very awe-inspiring, but I can't waut for Leben v. Silva at UFN and Shamrock/Ortiz 2 and Silvia/Arlovski 3 at UFC 61.

Mike Spartz

05-28-2006, 02:02 AM

What an event. Hughes v. Gracie actually lived up to the hypeReally? I have yet to see the fight, but I read on other boards that Royce got smoked. I can't say I'm suprised though. Royce was way past his prime and it seems Matt just overwhemed him with his ground and pound. Good win by Matt and Royce can go home happy with a big paycheck in his pocket.

Tapout

05-28-2006, 02:28 AM

Yeah, Royce did pretty much get pounded. But I still think it was good fight because I expected one guy to pull a Josh Koscheck and just lay on the other guy the entire fight and pull out a decision. The fact that it was an actual fight made it good.

Mike Spartz

05-28-2006, 06:58 AM

I just saw the entire fight between Matt Hughes and Royce Gracie.

I guess the big question is if it lived up to the hype. The short answer is no, the long answer is yes. The actual fight wasn't interesting at all. It was over the moment they hit the ground. Matt got side control immedately and trapped Royce's arm in a kamura. Royce refused to quit but the damage had been done. After that, Royce gave Matt his back and Hughes pounded him into submission. 4 minutes and 39 seconds in the first round and Matt Hughes is your winner.

The fight didn't live up to the hype. BUT the effect of the fight did. Every MMA message board in the world is buzzing about UFC 60 right now. Fans are debating the action and the fighters themselves. Some support Gracie, some support Hughes. But all of them are forgetting one thing: the fight never mattered anyway. The purpose of this match was to get more people interested in the UFC, and it worked perfectly. The match had the same effect on people that Dan Severn/Royce Gracie did 12 years ago. It made people realize something important about the sport. 12 years ago, it was Jiu-Jitsu is important and useful, now, it's you need to be well rounded to win. Make an arguement if you want, but the sport has evolved and one-dimensional fighters like Royce have gone out with the tide.

Still, I take nothing away from both men. Each had something to prove and each set out to prove it. Matt won, as expected, and he can brag that he knocked out a legend. Royce lost but that doesn't tarnish his legacy. He's still one tough mofo and he proved it by accepting this fight. As fans, I think we should be proud of what happened last night, I think we should give the fighters the respect they deserve, and I think we should realize that last night was a pivitol moment in UFC history. I don't think we should complain about the outcome of the fight. What's done is done. One man proved to be better fighter, end of story.

JKDilla

05-29-2006, 01:19 AM

I think Zhoo-Zitsu was a winner as well. Matt was able to take it to Royce in a more dominating fashion than Yoshida or Sakuraba on the ground, and that was his cross-training in BJJ. Seeing Matt on the ground, I think I wouldn't mind seeing him take on Saku at 185. The Gracie's get a moral victory in the sense that it was method and techniques of Gracie Jiu Jitsu(that's what it was called before BJJ moniker came) that allowed Matt to do so well. They were defeated by their own art on the ground. Without them sharing and propogating the art, we wouldn't have as well-rounded a fighter as we do today. I think Matt adds to his legacy by participating in a fight which officially pits 1 era versus the next. I think this is definitely slides in as one of the 10 most important moments in MMA because it truly shows the development of the fighters. Ken Shamrock was an original figure, and in his fight vs Tito you could make a case of old guard vs new guard. But Royce vs Hughes is now the ultimate match up between old and new.

Robin2099

05-29-2006, 01:41 AM

Well, much like Bernard Hopkins and Roy Jones Jr in the sport of boxing, fighting too many turds to keep up their reputation did a number on Royce, and while this fight does nothing to diminsh his legacy and what he accomplished, it does prove that the Gracie's were basically in the right place at the right time when it came to proving how successful they were. No one in UFC 1-4 had the skills of a Matt Hughes or were as tough an opponent. However, credit has to be given to Royce for taking this fight, as Royce actually stepped up to the plate, whereas most Gracie's cough Rickson cough seem perfectly content to just rest on there names and not prove anything.
Diego Sanchez was also proven to be a one dimensional fighter, showing that if he can't get the takedown there there is nothing he can do to beat you. That fight easily would of been Allesio's had he done something at all other then avoid Diego's take downs.

Mike Spartz

05-29-2006, 02:50 AM

it does prove that the Gracie's were basically in the right place at the right time when it came to proving how successful they were. No one in UFC 1-4 had the skills of a Matt Hughes or were as tough an opponent.For the most part, I agree. However, Royce didn't exactly cakewalk through those tournaments. He had to survive in matches with no weight limits and no time limits. Many of his opponents outweighed him by 15-20 pounds, and yet he still managed to win. Maybe his opponants were unskilled in BJJ but that didn't make them any less difficult to beat.

JTurner954

03-07-2009, 05:45 PM

I got into MMA late last year with The Ultimate Fighter and I was wondering if anyone else (or the members who posted before me) is watching Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) television. I see there's a countdown on Spike TV at 6:00 p.m. tonight for the Jackson-Jardine PPV.

Do you guys watch other shows like WEC on Versus as well?

Tapout

07-13-2009, 12:28 PM

Hobbes829

07-13-2009, 12:49 PM

Bumping this because I'm curious as to what people here think about what Brock Lesnar did on Saturday night after the fight. I can't say anything better than Lance Storm (http://www.stormwrestling.com/071209.html) or Jim Ross (http://www.jrsbarbq.com/blog/jrs-ufc-100-thoughtsjbl-runs-bulls) already have.
the only thing i disagree with is lance's point about the pro wrestler's view point about brock. The thing is, no one was disrespecting the toughness of math teachers and looking down on them. They do make a point of bringing up brock's pro wrestling background.

sdp

07-13-2009, 01:39 PM

Well here in Mexico they aired the PPV on over the air free tv, not even on cable, in HD too. It wasn't commercial free however it started at the same time and ended about 20 minutes later than the PPV did so not many commercials at all.

It was alright though I loved Brock Lesnar and his post match interviews. Its a shame they made him apologize for them. I mean yeah it was very pro-wrestling heelish but thats what made it so awesome. I agree that their usual stuff is more fake than this, this was just Brock fooling around but it WAS Brock doing something real, anything else is more scripted than that. I used to be a big fan of MMA about ten years ago before it was so widely popular and I lost interest as it became more popular, mostly because something was missing from fights, they became more stale IMO, there was more variety.

I don't know if I'm a hypocrite or if my mind has changed but yeah I hate Kimbo Jones mostly because he isn't an MMA guy, and since I've also trained in various martial arts, I don't like that just some random dude can just climb the ladder so quick. I'm also not a fan of all these pro-wrestling guys doing MMA but yeah like I said I liked Brock.

I was disappointed to see no female fight, I was hoping this would become more of a norm, oh well. This is probably the most excited I've been about MMA since UFC bought pride, which was cool for the short term but probably really bad in the long term.

Could this be a general MMA thread instead of UFC?

Maybe that way we can get more replies on this topic.

Tapout

07-13-2009, 03:11 PM

I don't know if I'm a hypocrite or if my mind has changed but yeah I hate Kimbo Jones mostly because he isn't an MMA guy, and since I've also trained in various martial arts, I don't like that just some random dude can just climb the ladder so quick.I used to agree on Kimbo Slice, but he's recently turned me completely around. I hadn't thought he was a joke since he started taking the sport seriously and training with Bas Rutten and he gained a whole new level of respect when he turned down the HUGE paydays he could have gotten from Strikeforce, Affliction, or one of the Japanese promotions to compete on The Ultimate Fighter. He'll never be a champion but I think he can hang in a rather weak heavyweight division.
I'm also not a fan of all these pro-wrestling guys doing MMA but yeah like I said I liked Brock.The history of pro wrestling and MMA crossovers has been discussed several times in some of the wrestling threads here, but long story short: Lesnar and Lashley are the real deal and guys who aren't go away quickly.
I was disappointed to see no female fight, I was hoping this would become more of a norm, oh well. This is probably the most excited I've been about MMA since UFC bought pride, which was cool for the short term but probably really bad in the long term.UFC doesn't do women's MMA, at least not yet. Dana White has said the general public isn't ready for it and I'm inclined to agree with him. Next month's Strikeforce card features Gina Carano vs. Cristiane "Cyborg" Santos (along with three other very, very good title fights) and that will probably be your only source for women's MMA in the United States for the foreseeable future.
Could this be a general MMA thread instead of UFC?

Maybe that way we can get more replies on this topic.Yeah, if a mod wouldn't mind doing that. I didn't have the foresight when I made this thread three years ago.

Quincy Archer

07-13-2009, 03:43 PM

I'm happy there is a MMA thread on TZ. I've a been a fan for about a year now. What did you guys think of the Hendo v Bisping fight? I thought that knockout was brutal. I wonder who will Brock fight next? Who could actually stop him?

EinBebop

07-13-2009, 04:53 PM

The problem with Brock wanting to be a heel is timing. Bear with me here...

In boxing, Mike Tyson was once on top of the world. People thought he was unbeatable, and they would tune in to see him kill men. The biggest flaw with Tyson was that he killed them so quickly that people didn't feel like they got their money's worth... they wanted to see him play with his food a little more before he ate it. But Mike was the monster face... his type of match would've played better in the UFC because in the UFC even if the main event disappoints in some way, you usually feel like you got your money's worth from the show.

In pro-wrestling, the heel champion as a general rule is your preferred state of business, because the best money has always been in seeing a hero reach the top while the villain gets his comeuppance. You tune in to see the heel lose.

Let me repeat that: The heel is money because you tune in to see the heel lose. And that's the flaw in Brock's plan... Brock seems unstoppable right now. Everyone he hasn't beat in the UFC is going to be an underdog going in, and nobody wants to tune in to watch the guy they hate win! Brock should have been trying to be the next Mike Tyson.

I think this is why Dana White suddenly seems so gung-ho to bring in Fedor finally. I think he's scared of Brock making the company look bad. Look for Dana to swallow his pride and bring back Barnett, Arlovski, and anyone else who has a shot at getting the belt off Lesnar.

Robin2099

07-14-2009, 12:04 AM

In boxing, Mike Tyson was once on top of the world. People thought he was unbeatable, and they would tune in to see him kill men. The biggest flaw with Tyson was that he killed them so quickly that people didn't feel like they got their money's worth... they wanted to see him play with his food a little more before he ate it. But Mike was the monster face... his type of match would've played better in the UFC because in the UFC even if the main event disappoints in some way, you usually feel like you got your money's worth from the show.

Not really. What made Tyson such a star in his prim was his devastating power, and exciting fighting style. People wanted to see Tyson KO in brutal fashion, not watch him "play with his food." He was the closest thing that people had to watching a boxing match that would play out like a Rocky movie. You watched Tyson you knew you were in for a brutal beating and exciting beat down. That's one of the biggest reason why the Heavyweight division is in such disarray now.

Let me repeat that: The heel is money because you tune in to see the heel lose. And that's the flaw in Brock's plan... Brock seems unstoppable right now. Everyone he hasn't beat in the UFC is going to be an underdog going in, and nobody wants to tune in to watch the guy they hate win! Brock should have been trying to be the next Mike Tyson.

Not really. People will keep tuning in to Lesnar's fights because of the fact that they want to see him loose. If someone gets a couple of quality wins in the Heavyweight division then they will tune in to hope that they can pull off the upset. At one point in time, Liddell, GSP, Ortiz, and Jackson have all looked unbeatable. Their fights drew huge buy rates, and when they lost, the rematches drew even bigger buy rates.

I think this is why Dana White suddenly seems so gung-ho to bring in Fedor finally. I think he's scared of Brock making the company look bad. Look for Dana to swallow his pride and bring back Barnett, Arlovski, and anyone else who has a shot at getting the belt off Lesnar.

He's been trying to bring in Fedor for awhile, but it won't happen until Fedor quits pricing himself out of range. He's not a draw in America, it's that simple and the UFC won't pay him the money he wants. Ignoring other things like Sambo tournaments and all that.

sdp

07-14-2009, 12:39 PM

UFC doesn't do women's MMA, at least not yet. Dana White has said the general public isn't ready for it and I'm inclined to agree with him. Next month's Strikeforce card features Gina Carano vs. Cristiane "Cyborg" Santos (along with three other very, very good title fights) and that will probably be your only source for women's MMA in the United States for the foreseeable future.
Yeah, if a mod wouldn't mind doing that. I didn't have the foresight when I made this thread three years ago.

And thats a shame.

Beat

07-14-2009, 01:29 PM

I think a lot of Lesnar's antics was due to his hatred of Mir. He shook Herring's hand, shook Randy's hand, but Mir annoyed him a lot more it would seem.

The HW division is still a mess. It's better than whan Timmeh was champ, but until Lesnar vs Fedor, it's going to be considered such because of that inability to have #1 fight #2. (Make no mistake, Lesnar's rise has been meteoric but he's still the #2 HW in the world)

Tapout

07-14-2009, 02:04 PM

I think a lot of Lesnar's antics was due to his hatred of Mir. He shook Herring's hand, shook Randy's hand, but Mir annoyed him a lot more it would seem.That's the point I've been trying to make on other boards. Other than the prerequisite "He's too old" pre-fight trash talk, Brock was nothing but respectful to Randy Couture. Frank Mir had been running his mouth like his victory over Brock was a beating like what Anderson Silva did to Rich Franklin. And apparently he's still doing it (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/7/13/947483/quote-of-the-day-frank-mir-within). I don't know why Frank's so hungry for another beating. Maybe he needs the money.

The HW division is still a mess. It's better than whan Timmeh was champ, but until Lesnar vs Fedor, it's going to be considered such because of that inability to have #1 fight #2. (Make no mistake, Lesnar's rise has been meteoric but he's still the #2 HW in the world)Well, at least until Fedor takes care of him Josh Barnett is still #2 and I have Lesnar at #3. But I do get your point.

EinBebop

07-14-2009, 02:39 PM

Well, at least until Fedor takes care of him Josh Barnett is still #2 and I have Lesnar at #3. But I do get your point.The last meta-rankings of top MMA websites from Bloody Elbow looked similar...

1 Fedor Emelianenko 100
2 Josh Barnett 94
3 Frank Mir 90
4 Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira 85
5 Brock Lesnar 80

Brock is definitely at least #3 now, it'll be interesting to see if the MMA-universe does rank him higher.

Tapout

07-20-2009, 03:12 PM

DREAM.10 was great last night. I've become a big fan of Melvin Manhoef, but the guy makes Mark Coleman look like Demian Maia. He was putting a tremendous beating on Filho, but all it takes is one takedown and the guy is finished.

Marius Zaromskis came out of nowhere to win the welterweight tournament with two highlight reel head kicks. The event is available on YouTube I believe legally since its linked on all the MMA sites, but I'm not positive so I won't link it here.

EinBebop

07-30-2009, 01:11 AM

Bloody Elbow's Heavyweight Meta-ratings (http://www.bloodyelbow.com) are out. I'll just list the top 5 here:

1 Fedor Emelianenko 100%
2 Brock Lesnar 94%
3 Josh Barnett 92%
4 Frank Mir 86%
5 Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira 83%

Josh is about to take a huge dive, which would swing Randy Couture into #5. UFC has to be hoping the Nogueira will win over Couture, since I doubt they're pushing for Lesnar-Couture 2 at this point. #7-ranked Shane Carwin is fighting Cain Velasquez in October, which makes me wonder where they plan to find Brock's next opponent.

Since this ranking obviously doesn't reflect Barnett's recent steroid scandal, I wonder if recent events won't move Brock into #1? There's a report on Bloody Elbow now that Fedor may have turned down the most generous UFC deal ever because UFC won't co-promote with M-1. I think that perceived greed may sour some of the hardcores of these mma sites against Fedor a little, and if there's no opponent around the corner for Fedor, I can see some sites deciding it's time to call Brock the #1 heavyweight.

Robin2099

07-30-2009, 01:52 AM

Wonderwall

07-30-2009, 02:53 AM

For that matter I think it's time for Lesnar to be number one. Fedor has only fought two meaningful opponents in five years. Lesnar has been able to knock off a lot of good fighters, and with little experience.

Since when does 3 opponents become a lot? Not taking anything from Lesnar but he's only had 2 meaningful opponents in Randy and Frank. I don't see why M-1's business tactics should effect Fedor's ranking. 30 wins and no actual loss should still keep him #1 for awhile. But he really does have to fight someone credible soon.

TheVileOne

07-30-2009, 03:59 AM

Good thing M-1 is around to hold fake press conferences and defend Fedor.

M-1 is what's keeping Fedor out of the UFC.

Beat

07-30-2009, 07:58 AM

Yeah, M-1's ridiculous notion that co-promotion is a must (according to Bloody Elbow, the contract is more than enough to satisfy any top shelf fighter 100 times over and probably the most lucrative deal ever, but was refused by the co-promotion clause) is idiotic. Hell, even Alexander Emilaneko is stating that M-1's demands are asinine.

Tapout

07-30-2009, 12:21 PM

I would say there way past that since everyone has managed to put aside there hate of Dana, and move on to M-1 Global and the leach like tactics they employ. For that matter I think it's time for Lesnar to be number one. Fedor has only fought two meaningful opponents in five years. Lesnar has been able to knock off a lot of good fighters, and with little experience.Heath Herring is a very legitimate opponent, especially for a guy's 3rd fight. There was a time when he was probably #3 in the world behind Fedor and Nogueira and was also known for beating "unbeatable" wrestlers like Kerr and Erikson. Yeah, he's past his prime but I still think it was a bigger win than beating a vastly overrated Frank Mir based on a win over a worn out, sick Minotauro.

I'm convinced that if the terms posted on Bloody Elbow were anywhere near accurate Fedor has to be terrified that he's going to come home to find his family murdered by ex-KGB guys. Josh Barnett and Vadim Finkelchtein have made the hate piled on Lesnar look tame.

TheVileOne

07-30-2009, 01:09 PM

Its simple. Fedor said he wants to fight like say Randy Couture. If he wants to do that he has to sign with the UFC.

If there's any truth to the terms UFC offered, then seriously hang M-1.

That press conference was HORRIBLE. M-1 is horrible.

EinBebop

07-30-2009, 07:35 PM

More meta-rankings... again, only the top 5, visit bloody elbow for the full lists...

Light Heavyweight
1 Lyoto Machida 100
2 Quinton Jackson 94
3 Rashad Evans 93
4 Forrest Griffin 87
5 Mauricio Rua 84

Middleweight
1 Anderson Silva 100
2 Dan Henderson 94
3 Yushin Okami 87
3 Nate Marquardt 87
5 Demian Maia 81

Welterweight
1 Georges St. Pierre 100
2 Jon Fitch 94
3 Thiago Alves 92
4 Matt Hughes 77
5 Jake Shields 76

TheVileOne

07-30-2009, 08:46 PM

Well I definitely want a Henderson/Silva rematch and not Henderson/Franklin II right now. That's the fight I want to see. I'm not saying Henderson will get it done this time, but people vastly underestimate Henderson sometimes.

Tapout

07-30-2009, 10:30 PM

I'm still wondering what they're doing with 103. Franklin/Henderson II was all but confirmed, but that may or may not have been scrapped and the Franklin/Ortiz rumor mill is starting back up. The winner of Marquardt/Maia should get the next crack at Anderson. I don't know how so many rankings have Okami still at #2. Have him fight Henderson.

Beat

07-30-2009, 10:50 PM

My guess is the Affliction implosion has led to some top tier talent being pushed in their stead. Which I honestly wouldn't mind. Seeing Vitor Belfort/Franklin and Okami/Henderson would be way better than Franklin/Hendo II.

Robin2099

07-30-2009, 11:43 PM

Since when does 3 opponents become a lot? Not taking anything from Lesnar but he's only had 2 meaningful opponents in Randy and Frank. I don't see why M-1's business tactics should effect Fedor's ranking. 30 wins and no actual loss should still keep him #1 for awhile. But he really does have to fight someone credible soon.

Let's look at Lesnar's first five opponents:

1. Min Soo Kim: Horrible opponent, but that was Heroes decision because they wanted to make Brock into a big draw.

2. Frank Mir: Former UFC champion who never actually lost the title and one of the best grapplers in the UFC. Lesnar would have ended it in the first round if not for that stupid stand up.

3. Heath Herring: One of the hardest hitters in the heavyweight division who is still a dangerous fight for anyone. Lesnar completely dominated him for three rounds.

4. Randy Couture: Nuff said.

5. Frank Mir: Mir is no small guy, he came in great shape and looked great in his fight against Nog. Lesnar completely wiped the floor with him and made Frank look like an amateur.

Now Fedor's last five:

5. Mark Hunt: Freak show fight with a guy who currently has a losing record in MMA.

4. Matt Lindland: A guy who usually fights at MIDDLEWEIGHT and has done nothing noteworhty besides constantly talking about how Rich Franklin ducked him.

3. Hong Man Choi: His most noteworthy win is against Jose Canseco.

4. Tim Sylvia: One of the worst people to ever hold the UFC Heavyweight title.

5. Andrei Arlovski: The only decent opponent in the bunch. He was riding a five fight win streak and was doing good till that jumping knee.

So I really don't see how people can compare their recent fights. Brock has had no easy fights since starting minus his first one. Fedor has been fighting hopelessly overmatched people and cans with the exception of Arlovski. His reputation is based on what he did during his Pride years, but he hasn't done anything since.

Wonderwall

07-31-2009, 02:29 AM

Like I said, I'm not taking anything away from Lesnar as he has had some tough opponents, 2 of them top 10 fighters. But I'm not the type to hang best in the world on someone with only 5 fights. It's just too soon, let him keep fighting top guys and prove his worth time and time again.

TheVileOne

07-31-2009, 10:50 AM

I'm just sick of Fedor and M-1 and Fedor refusing to fight in the UFC to prove himself on the biggest stage.

Robin2099

08-01-2009, 12:11 AM

I'm just sick of Fedor and M-1 and Fedor refusing to fight in the UFC to prove himself on the biggest stage.

And that will always affect his legacy. The UFC heavyweight division may not be that great, but it's stll got the best heavyweights right now in MMA. But hey if Fedor wants to flush his legacy down the toilet to associate with the leaches of M-1 Global that's his call.

Beat

08-01-2009, 10:14 AM

Well I totally called Vitor/Franklin. Too bad the conference once again failed to deliver the news I really wanted to hear.

Quincy Archer

08-01-2009, 11:34 AM

I agree with you Beat. This whole Fedor situation has left a bad taste in my mouth. I just don't get why his management can't see the big picture. Oh well I gues he can always fight in DREAM. I'm sure Jose Canseco can give quite a challenge :p

Beat

08-01-2009, 05:58 PM

For whatever reason, they won't budge.

Shame too. The M-1 challenge is basically BodogFight and the IFL minus the suck of the other two organizations, and they have gone out of their way to get people exposure and an outlet. Daisuke Nakamura wouldn't have gotten out of DEEP if it wasn't for that one virtuoso grappling performance he put on at an M-1 Challenge show.

But the fact is, it's a feeder show, done in partnership with feeder shows. Are you seriously expecting one fighter is going to be your way of bullying an entire organization? They don't need you, you need them.

Why Fedor continues to trust Finklestein is frustrating.

Tapout

08-01-2009, 08:20 PM

M-1 isn't even trying to use the UFC to elevate their standing in MMA. Finkelstein really believes they're already on the same level. Dana White is 100% correct when he says they're dealing with "crazy Russians."

TheVileOne

08-03-2009, 04:13 PM

http://www.411mania.com/siteimages/howscottcokersignsfedorbp_26034.gif

Its that simple really.

Tapout

08-03-2009, 07:54 PM

Maybe Dana can convince Frank and Lorenzo to just buy Strikeforce. :D

Beat

08-04-2009, 07:57 AM

Just give it a year and M-1 will bankrupt Strikeforce just like they have Bodog and Afflicition's MMA.

TheVileOne

08-04-2009, 01:47 PM

Just give it a year and M-1 will bankrupt Strikeforce just like they have Bodog and Afflicition's MMA.

Its a valid point. Every promotion M-1 has "co-promoted" with has either gone under or is out of the MMA business. Pride - gone. Rings - gone. Bodog- gone. Affliction MMA - gone.

UFC is really better off without Fedor. Fedor is overrated as a huge draw which he isn't. UFC has the biggest draws and greatest champions ever under their roof. They are expanding their empire and they have an excellent, recession proof PPV model.

I would've liked Fedor in the UFC. I think it would've been good for the fans. But the UFC should not have to jump through all these stupid hoops to get Fedor. Fedor did not deserve even $2 million per fight. Lesnar doesn't even get that.

Robin2099

08-04-2009, 05:59 PM

Its a valid point. Every promotion M-1 has "co-promoted" with has either gone under or is out of the MMA business. Pride - gone. Rings - gone. Bodog- gone. Affliction MMA - gone.

UFC is really better off without Fedor. Fedor is overrated as a huge draw which he isn't. UFC has the biggest draws and greatest champions ever under their roof. They are expanding their empire and they have an excellent, recession proof PPV model.

I would've liked Fedor in the UFC. I think it would've been good for the fans. But the UFC should not have to jump through all these stupid hoops to get Fedor. Fedor did not deserve even $2 million per fight. Lesnar doesn't even get that.

Well Strikeforce might last a little while longer since they have the CBS money to help them out, so they will probably be around for a little longer.

Other than that I agree with all your points. Fedor has been making stupid demand after stupid demand and has been putting himself on the same pedistool as people like Michael Jordan, Tom Brady or Tiger Woods with all his ridiculous demands. It's not like we see BJ Penn doing Jujitsu torunaments in his free time. I honestly wouldnt even put him in top five P4P status now, more or less as number 1 Heavyweight.

Though one positive to this is hearing Fedor fans try to spin how Overeem, Rogers, and Buentello would be more interesting fights than Lesnar, Coture, Mir, or even Crocop if he gets back to form.

Beat

08-04-2009, 07:07 PM

Overeem is the only decent opponent of the bunch, and well, he's on something. The Overeem that lost to Liddel back in 2003 isn't the same as the musclebound freak of nature that destroyed Badr Hari for being K-1's Floyd Mayweather. I doubt if he recovers from that hand injury, he'll pass the inevitable tests.

TheVileOne

08-04-2009, 08:29 PM

What's even funny about that Robin is that Buentello is now under UFC contract as well.

And I mean, let me say, I like Rogers and Overeem a lot. I think Rogers has a lot of potential but I want to see more out of him soon.

Overeem is the only decent opponent of the bunch, and well, he's on something. The Overeem that lost to Liddel back in 2003 isn't the same as the musclebound freak of nature that destroyed Badr Hari for being K-1's Floyd Mayweather. I doubt if he recovers from that hand injury, he'll pass the inevitable tests.

Well the Hari fight was a kickboxing fight. Also, Overeem LOST his last K-1 kickboxing match last March. While not going back to the US and defending the Strikeforce heavyweight belt.

While I like Overeem, Overeem has not beaten anyone truly relevant at heavyweight. He was beating down Cro Cop, but multiple low blows made that fight end in no contest.

Overeem is also 5-5-1 in his last 11 fights. Overeem was beaten by soundly by everyone that mattered at light heavyweight. Its not a very compelling match for Fedor. Not to mention, he's trying to cycle roids out of his hand so the fight won't happen anytime soon.

Tapout

08-09-2009, 03:12 AM

Robin2099

08-09-2009, 03:04 PM

Its three hours later and I'm still at a loss for words. I don't know whether to be more disappointed in Forrest or just in complete awe of Anderson Silva. That fight wasn't what all the myopic Silva fans said it would be, it was worse. It made Silva's fight with Leben look competitive. Still not sure what was wrong with him the last two fights, but when this Anderson Silva decides to show up I'm not sure anybody at any weight can beat him.

Easy, Leites and Cote just are not in Silva's league. He went from fighting great fighters in Franklin, Marquardt, and Henderson to Leites who's a one trick pony, and Cote who has a good chin but not much else. Heck, he couldn't even win TUF. So you could see Anderson just could care less.

On that note though, I really want to see a Henderson and Marguardt rematch. Belfort if he gets by Franklin(which I don't think he will) might be a good fight, but I don't think Belfort has much that would make Silva worry.