C&C - Neon Genesis Evangelion "Do You Love Me?" [04/07]

[Artimus Gigan]

SERIOUSLY, DO YOU~?!:crying: :crying: :crying:
I'll telll you what I don't like, the "winning" entry of Draw Rei as a Ninja contest, seriously this was the most well assembled one out of the 500 entries...and if this was the best all it means is that the artist only creates slightly less visual atrocities than what the others do

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/00pie/acrimeandadisgrace.jpg



NOW THEN HERE IS A PICTURE OF SOME ADORABLE WELSH CORGIES!^__^
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/00pie/1000047img5wq.jpg


REMEMBER THEY WILL ALL BE VAPORIZED ANYWAYS WHEN THE WORLD ENDS
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/00pie/gendo-pistol_27_35-39.jpg

and here's that Nadia Image Again
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/00pie/23nadia.jpg
she certainly has that cutsey ignorant "hrmm WTF were you saying again" expression, now doesn't she? Also what decent and clean human being would allow a lion to sit ont he furniture, a housecat is one thing but Lions can reallly dig into the apolustry, and also they are illegal to be kept as pets. So yeah obviously they have their sins to attone for....

and the color of that couch especialy, I mean really bad taste must run in the family, Nemo's subs were an interrior decoration nightmare


Next week we all go out with the grace and fury of the Heavens and Hells themselves with the finale thread

[Animeforever'04]

wow! just gonna make one too slow :p

[Duke]

Ah, there's nothing quite like screwing your mind while religious classical music plays in the background.

[Gatomon41]

Shinji Fails at life.

So what's going on? Great a whole episode on how Shinji loses his sanity. Yay.

[Animeforever'04]

wow recycled footage :sweat:

[Artimus Gigan]

Remember these are the sitting/recap episodes

nothing happens except what already happened, and all the characters explain it from their perspective

it's also a two parter, except for the final 5 minutes of the next episode, which is just a short alternate story

you will be denied your series conclusion

[NahMan85]

Martor? Whatever Asuka said to Shinji. What the hell does that mean?

[Gatomon41]

Askua needs therapy.

Wow, Asuka is actually more likable crazy.

[Duke]

Martor? Whatever Asuka said to Shinji. What the hell does that mean?
Martyr. When somebody dies for the greater good (i.e. what all those Muslim suicide bombers believe they are, and what most divine beings such as Jesus are).

EDIT: Close-up Rei is always freaky. When I first saw it, it gave me a nightmare that Rei was trying to eat me.

[Beat]

WHAT THE HELL?


Can someone tell me when the hell the weirdness stops?

So, um...right. I'm gonna sit over here.

[Gatomon41]

Agh , even Rei is going Emo.

[Artimus Gigan]

Martyr. When somebody dies for the greater good (i.e. what all those Muslim suicide bombers believe they are, and what most divine beings such as Jesus are).
In other words they're the red guys who go into the blue base and blow up half their team to take out the entire blue team and then they steal the flag


and then the server cuts out making their sacrifice meaningless

[Animeforever'04]

...umm this need fart sounds, STAT!

[Gatomon41]

Good, after all that agnst, the world needs to end.

[Animeforever'04]

Good, after all that agnst, the world needs to end.no it must'n end need to buy more anime & games

[NahMan85]

Martyr. When somebody dies for the greater good (i.e. what all those Muslim suicide bombers believe they are, and what most divine beings such as Jesus are).

EDIT: Close-up Rei is always freaky. When I first saw it, it gave me a nightmare that Rei was trying to eat me.
Thanks. I had never heard that word that before.

[Gatomon41]

Nude Shinji: First Horseman of the Appolcapyse.

And Instrumentality is revealed! Wait, when did they get shot?

[Strollymonster]

Although it gets off to a slow start, after viewing these last two episodes from my new DVD set, I'm firmly of the opinion that this was a great way to end the series, regardless of budget concerns. It perfectly syncs with EoE and clarifies on a lot of the things in EoE.

The text on the transitions bothered me, the font and brightness, mostly.

Ah, Poor Dead Misato :crying:

[Duke]

You know what's funny?

Misato's and Ritsuko's deaths in EoE are different, pose-wise

You know, I never noticed the scotch tape before. With their budget, one would think it wasn't intentional. :anime:

[Gatomon41]

Mistato has issues... Is the only person Not to have Major issues Kaji?

[NahMan85]

Why did she sleep with Kaji again. I missed it. Damn.

[Duke]

Why did she sleep with Kaji again. I missed it. Damn.
To dirty herself. She was always "Miss Goody-good" when she was a kid, then wanted to be dirty, so she slept with Kaji. A lot.

[Gatomon41]

Now the Nerv crew is getting into the maddness.

[Nimarmo]

Oh god, the angst. Oh god, the 'german' accent voice acting.

[Animeforever'04]

3$%#^ theres no frigg'n sense here none at all! aaaaagh "jumps out the window!"

[Artimus Gigan]

Oh god, the angst. Oh god, the 'german' accent voice acting.This is what Hell looks like

[NahMan85]

To dirty herself. She was always "Miss Goody-good" when she was a kid, then wanted to be dirty, so she slept with Kaji. A lot.OOOOOh ok now I see why she wanted to BE with Shinji a few eps back or was it the last? But that isn't much of an excuse. She could have Kaji anytime she wanted since she had him like a dog on a leash.

Ok so Asuka is in Shinji's mind and Shinij in Asuka? :confused: :confused:

[Gatomon41]

What the Hell is this?

I think Shinji just said what's on everyone's minds.

[Duke]

I love it. Shinji = God.

[NahMan85]

That was BS I didn't like that ending. :mad:

[Gatomon41]

This is a pathetic end of the world. No Antichrist. No Four Horsemen. No Meddigo. The only thing they get right is the werid imagery, similar to Revelations, but even then they don't use the symbols from that book. Kind of disappointing.

Speaking of Instrumentality, check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumentality_of_Mankind

[Brent Long]

The edit list is up in the thread.

[Duke]

This is a pathetic end of the world. No Antichrist. No Four Horsemen. No Middego. The only thing they get right is the werid imagery, similar to Revelations.
This is one reason why End of Evangelion rocks.

EoE explains why everyone's going psycho.

[Animeforever'04]

wow wth! whats the summary of this show, kill all the angels then start screwing with your mind for watching this:ack:

[Scirel]

This is a pathetic end of the world. No Antichrist. No Four Horsemen. No Meddigo. The only thing they get right is the werid imagery, similar to Revelations, but even then they don't use the symbols from that book. Kind of disappointing.


For all that stuff, see EOE.


Now I see why people said 25 takes place during the first half of EOE, as many of the still images used were full scenes in the movie.

It also explains why shinji was freaking catatonic during most of the 1st half while asuka got papsmeared by the MP EVA's.

[Strollymonster]

This is a pathetic end of the world. No Antichrist. No Four Horsemen. No Middego. The only thing they get right is the werid imagery, similar to Revelations.

Speaking of Instrumentality, check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumentality_of_Mankind

Well, you've got to consider that (possible EoE spoiler)

these two episodes take place entirely within Shinji's mind as he goes through Third Impact and all souls are absorbed into a single entity...which is why everyone seems to be able to access everyone else's mind directly. Every single brain on the planet just got crammed into one uber-soul.

That's why the episode consists of long and forcibly introspective narratives. Each soul has to confront their family and friends on all the problems they have. It's essentially the ultimate form of Judgment because it's so much more devastatingly personal, focusing on all the sins of the person as seen by those he's closest to.

I sure as hell hope that's not how it ends, but it makes a lot of sense in a lot of deep ways. Existentialism is "teh rox0rz".

[Gatomon41]

Would this episode be considered ambigous? If so, is it because the writers have nothing to say, ran out of money, or actually planed it all along?

[Sandoz]

Mistato has issues... Is the only person Not to have Major issues Kaji? Well, considering that (from a certain point of view) he committed suicide-by-proxy, I'd say that Kaji has issues as well. (Also, in the manga he has his own SUPER ANGSTY PAST ZOMG complete with a dead relative and a guilty conscience.)

[Gatomon41]

Well, considering that (from a certain point of view) he committed suicide-by-proxy, I'd say that Kaji has issues as well. (Also, in the manga he has his own SUPER ANGSTY PAST ZOMG complete with a dead relative and a guilty conscience.)

He was doing his job, or whatever. It happens.

[Duke]

The only person without a screwed-up past is Random NERV employee #4532.

[Beat]

And...

SEELE's crack commando team shot him in the head after he surrendered. Then they shot him in the body three times to make sure he was dead.

NERV should have hired Chuck Norris.

[BigBear]

The only person without a screwed-up past is Random NERV employee #4532.

Too bad he(she?) gets killed in the movie, along with EVERYONE ELSE

Add personally, I think NERV would have been better off with Mr. T:D

[Sandoz]

He was doing his job, or whatever. It happens. Given the circumstances of his death, I think it was less an "occupational hazard" so much as Kaji giving up and letting himself be killed. He finally learned the terrible truth about NERV, the Second Impact, and everything else, but he didn't try to change anything. He just let the burden fall on Misato's shoulders.

[Gatomon41]

Given the circumstances of his death, I think it was less an "occupational hazard" so much as Kaji giving up and letting himself be killed. He finally learned the terrible truth about NERV, the Second Impact, and everything else, but he didn't try to change anything. He just let the burden fall on Misato's shoulders.

Then wouldn't it be a case of dying instead of destroying his love?

[Artimus Gigan]

The following Star Trek Images Summarizes the last two EVa episodes:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/00pie/Life20Serious.jpg

[Sandoz]

Then wouldn't it be a case of dying instead of destroying his love? I don't know if I would go that far, but I think Kaji was guilty of "running away" from his problems in his own way.

[The Myst]

I can definitely see how he was running out of money at this point.

Half the episode was reused animation and just black backgrounds with text.

[I.R Joey]

Hey everyone.

Allow me to make one of my oh so rare cameos in the AS forum to say this.

Episodes like this one are one of the reasons I became an anime fan. It is so rare in American cartoons (or T.V period) to see a whole episode devoted to analyzing (or perhaps deconstructing) the charecters in a show. Taking them apart so we can really see what makes them tick, and what motivates them.

I speak as a person who started watching EVA in 2001, got half way through but never actually finished it (the guy who was letting me borrow stuff only had up to about episode 18). But you forget just how good the charecter studies in this show were.

It's just wonderful.

[The Myst]

Hey everyone.

Allow me to make one of my oh so rare cameos in the AS forum to say this.

Episodes like this one are one of the reasons I became an anime fan. It is so rare in American cartoons (or T.V period) to see a whole episode devoted to analyzing (or perhaps deconstructing) the charecters in a show. Taking them apart so we can really see what makes them tick, and what motivates them.

I speak as a person who started watching EVA in 2001, got half way through but never actually finished it (the guy who was letting me borrow stuff only had up to about episode 18). But you forget just how good the charecter studies in this show were.

It's just wonderful.
Maybe but American cartoons make a hell of a lot more sense. Other animes make more sense too.

[The Myst]

God damn. They really were out of money with all that scotch tape and ****.

EDIT: The ****? Shinji was watching Misato and Kaji have sex?

[Sandoz]

EDIT: The ****? Shinji was watching Misato and Kaji have sex?
It's not as if they were actually having sex in front of him. In Instrumentality, all human minds are merged into one; here, Shinji happened to peek in on one of Misato's memories of having sex with Kaji when they were both in college.

[I.R Joey]

The only person without a screwed-up past is Random NERV employee #4532.

Yup that's pretty much Eva in a nutshell, infact thanks for the new signature.

As for American cartoons making more sense, yeah probably but I just like a show that has the guts to devote a whole episode to charecter deconstruction.

And I thought Misato was just imagining Shinji seeing her with Kaji like that. Seeing as how everyones brains had merged.

[The Myst]

What the **** at that ending?

[RAINMAN]

Told ya this anime is craz up.:sweat:

[Kamaria]

End of Eva explains Rei's involvement in Instrumentality much more.

[jbanks97]

I was personally expecting to hate this episode, (considering how much I hated the lack of endings w/Big O and Wolf's Rain).


That being said it was much better than I expected. I even found it kind of cool-the main characters essentially go into therapy. It certainly makes sense in the context of the rest of the show. While the main action of the show has been angels v. humans, every episode has focused more on the mental states of the main characters. We finally get to see what has been going on in Misato, Asuka, and Rei's mind so far. It also makes sense considering the show is supposedly Anno's response to therapy he experienced to deal with his depression.

I could kind of follow the "external story" as well. I can't really tell the specifics (I've avoided all spoilers on EOE and this is my first EVA experience)but I think the world's ending and everyone is merging together. I'll reserve judgment as to whether I think it's a satisfying ending until 26.

One thing I found was kind of suprising (not sure if this is a spoiler, but I don't want to take a chance).
Blink and you missed it but 25 showed both Misato and Risutko were very dead. Do we get any explination as to what happened? (or do we have to wait for the movie)l. If they are dead how did Misato communicate with Shinji

[Classic Speedy]

I originally hated this episode when I first saw it a year ago but after rewatching it last night my opinion of it improved quite a bit. It really is a fascinating psyche study of all the characters and how their thoughts, when combined, can drive each other nuts and question their deepest motives.

And actually, my original criticism that the episode was poorly written is also misguided. Really, it's VERY well-written, with the all-knowing inner thoughts asking simple questions that force complex answers out of the characters that dig deep into their personalities and pasts. Misato's scene was especially interesting.

But episode 26 is miles better simply for the alternate universe. We actually get some much-needed comic relief. I won't go into details for those that haven't seen it but it's very enjoyable. ;)

[The Fullmetal]

AS needs to show The End of Eva (yeah, right) so all the newbs can be like "ZOMG TEH SOUND CUT OUT WHEN GENDO OHPENZ HIZ MOUTH!!!111"

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/Starwind_Amada/orlygendo.gif

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Duke]

One thing I found was kind of suprising (not sure if this is a spoiler, but I don't want to take a chance).
Blink and you missed it but 25 showed both Misato and Risutko were very dead. Do we get any explination as to what happened? (or do we have to wait for the movie)l. If they are dead how did Misato communicate with Shinji
Well, that's mostly explained in End of Eva Though when they do die, their final positions are different than what was shown in this episode.

[Rolling Cloud]

So, will On Demand air these and EOE?

Because I'm only watching EOE and not 25 & 26.

And, On Demand is where I watch it.

[Duke]

I forget which, but either Encore or Starz has the movie rights right now.

[Zam]

Dude, someone bring up the Anti-Depressives.....

[Ackar]

The introspection would have been better with Pen Pens input.

He would have had an interesting point of view. :p

[Hyper Shadow X]

Now this one was just weird.

[Gatomon41]

I don't know if I would go that far, but I think Kaji was guilty of "running away" from his problems in his own way.

Kaji was going to get killed anyways, and he knew it. Maybe he knew Mistao was going to take him out, maye not. But Kaji was a dead man already.

[The Myst]

What was up with those cameras and the stage that was all around Shinji? It reminds me of a similar scene in one of the last episodes of Big O with Angel.

[Lord Dalek]

Well, that's mostly explained in End of Eva Though when they do die, their final positions are different than what was shown in this episode.No they aren't.

[Duke]

No they aren't.
Yea, they are. Misato dies in front of a dark-colored elevator, not a light-grey wall (plus, there's no blood splatter on the wall becuase Misato doesn't lean on the wall before she dies), and Ritsuko dies face-up.

[MacGyver]

I've never posted in one of these talkbacks, and rarely look at them, but I've got to know just what the deal with Evangalion: Death and Rebirth is in regards to the series. The reason I ask is a friend mine loaned me that and End of Evangalion, and after 26, how should I watch them?

[Duke]

Death is a character-based recap of the series (Think a 90-minute version of Episode 25), Rebirth is literally the first 20 minutes of End of Evangelion (i.e. don't bother). End of Evangelion takes place at the same time as Episode 25 & 26 (hence why they're split up into...Episode 25 and...Episode 26)

[Vagrant]

Maybe but American cartoons make a hell of a lot more sense. Other animes make more sense too.
Meh. Making sense is overrated.

[The Myst]

Meh. Making sense is overrated.

Hey, I'm a huge fan of Paranoia Agent of all things. It's just that even that made more sense than NGE.

[Strollymonster]

The last episode is set to arrive already...seems like just yesterday we were freaking out that hell froze over and Evangelion was going to be aired to a huge demographic on a popular programming block.

The last episode also hosts the most disturbing imagery to ever be seen in the series, and I count EoE...

Shiny Happy Panty-Flashing Funtime Rei! :eek: :ack: :D

It would be a total injustice for AS not to do all they can to find a way to air EoE and Death...

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Meh. Making sense is overrated.

Also, people haven't made the mental leap yet from distinquishing between "artsy fartsy" anime and "mainstream" anime.

Obviously NGE is a matter of personal taste, but for people that say "what the hell is this??", well, go and watch something like Mulholland Drive, any Luis Buniel or Ingmar Bergman film and you'll "get" the reason why they are what they are. It's not like Americans aren't prone to obliqueness. It's just that they don't get much air time and most of you here never see them. With Adult Swim, it's a pretty widely watched block, unlike some obscure PAY-TV channel that airs nothing but super-independent American films and super-enigmatic foreign films, which many of you wouldn't watch anyway. Most American animation don't do pretentious "artsy fartsy" because they can't sacrifice the funds for directorial indulgence at the expense of profit and ratings.

The key is if you don't like those oblique films, then it's better that you seek out the more mainstream anime stuff. Of which anime like NGE, Furi Kuri and Paranoia Agent are decidedly not. Unfortunately for some of you the folks in charge of Adult Swim seem to be typical anime fans that geek out on shows that flaunt their hidden subtext and enigmatic storytelling. ;)

[The Myst]

I love FLCL and Paranoia Agent and understand both of them. NGE just makes no sense. I mean, they went from Misato and Shinji talking about Kaworu to Shinji sitting in a room with cameras and a stage and everybody telling him crazy stuff with no explanation.

[Strollymonster]

I love FLCL and Paranoia Agent and understand both of them. NGE just makes no sense. I mean, they went from Misato and Shinji talking about Kaworu to Shinji sitting in a room with cameras and a stage and everybody telling him crazy stuff with no explanation.

Well, the opening text for the show explains that it's all happening during Third Impact. I do agree that it's somewhat confusing to go from the end of the last episode to this one without a transitory sequence, but the next episode really helps to understand this one.

And of course, watching EoE makes it a lot clearer, since it's what's happening as these two episodes occur simultaneously.

[Seiya]

i didin't like this episode at all.

[The Myst]

Well, the opening text for the show explains that it's all happening during Third Impact. I do agree that it's somewhat confusing to go from the end of the last episode to this one without a transitory sequence, but the next episode really helps to understand this one.

And of course, watching EoE makes it a lot clearer, since it's what's happening as these two episodes occur simultaneously.

See, this is my first run through NGE, I didn't even see the first two episodes when they aired on Toonami. I've heard of the show but this is my first watching of the show. So of course, I've also never seen EoE or the next episode. Hopefully the next episode will help me understand because I don't think I'll be seeing EoE unless AS gets the rights to it. I don't have the premium channels like Starz and Encore and I never have enough money for stuff I really, really want, and especially not enough money for a movie to a show which I've enjoyed to an extent but hasn't really clicked with me enough to make me a huge fan or something like Lupin III or Paranoia Agent (Just two far ends of the spectrum examples.).

[Rolling Cloud]

The last episode is set to arrive already...seems like just yesterday we were freaking out that hell froze over and Evangelion was going to be aired to a huge demographic on a popular programming block.

The last episode also hosts the most disturbing imagery to ever be seen in the series, and I count EoE...

Shiny Happy Panty-Flashing Funtime Rei! :eek: :ack: :D

It would be a total injustice for AS not to do all they can to find a way to air EoE and Death...


:confused: :confused:

That's not like Rei. And, that's why I'm not watching the Rebirth episode.

[FinnMacCool]

Personally, I think eps 25 and 26 are great as episodes and the character arc finale, but they fail as a true series finale. There were so many things (what's going on with Rei's AT powers at the end, what's up with Adam and Lilith, how are SEELE and NERV connected, what's Gendo's ultimate agenda). However character focused Evangelion might be, that doesn't change the fact that it also has a lot of action and conspiracy elements to it as well, but 25 and 26 only cover the character element.

But I will admit, Rei saying, "Are you riding his baloney pony?" is about the funniest thing EVER!

[Vallen Valiant]

Personally, I think eps 25 and 26 are great as episodes and the character arc finale, but they fail as a true series finale. There were so many things (what's going on with Rei's AT powers at the end, what's up with Adam and Lilith, how are SEELE and NERV connected, what's Gendo's ultimate agenda). However character focused Evangelion might be, that doesn't change the fact that it also has a lot of action and conspiracy elements to it as well, but 25 and 26 only cover the character element.

But I will admit, Rei saying, "Are you riding his baloney pony?" is about the funniest thing EVER!

How are Seele and Nerv connected?

Isn't it obvious? The nerve is controlled by the soul. As such Seele is the boss to the Nerv (formerly known as Gerhin, or Brain)

Gendo's Ultimate Agenda? Isn't it obvious?

Go back to the part when he was chatting to Unit 1 and watch it again.

Rei's AT-field Powers?
Downright simple. She is no different from Kaoru as he said himself. Connect the dots yourself.

Adam and Lilith? Adam is the Angel that nearly destroyed the world. Lilith is the source of all humans. (Kaoru called human Lilians)

All of the above is in the TV series. Even more of it are in the Platinum edition, and nearly the full story is in the Movie. And for the diehards, Evangelions 2 PS2 game has all the rest of the relatively unimportant information like the source of the angels.

[Chrono1995]

I don't see how these last two episodes can NOT make sense.

I understood everything from the first go, even though I was kinda burned at not getting a real ending (I had no idea the show's budget forced them into making these episodes at the time). However, the more I watched them, the more I liked them. It's not often a show gets THIS up close and personal with its characters and blows them wide open for all to see. Plus, I'm a huge fan of the experimental animation, especially the "paper anime" sequence in episode 26.

[Space Chief]

All of the above is in the TV series. Even more of it are in the Platinum edition, and nearly the full story is in the Movie. And for the diehards, Evangelions 2 PS2 game has all the rest of the relatively unimportant information like the source of the angels.

Which, for the record, is....?

[FinnMacCool]

How are Seele and Nerv connected?

Isn't it obvious? The nerve is controlled by the soul. As such Seele is the boss to the Nerv (formerly known as Gerhin, or Brain)


But NERV is a U.N. organization, so does SEELE work with/control the U.N., or is this an off-the-books sort of thing, and just how much autonomy does Gendo have?


Gendo's Ultimate Agenda? Isn't it obvious?

Go back to the part when he was chatting to Unit 1 and watch it again.


Well, in episode 25, Misato said that Gendo caused Instrumentality to happen, which seems to be what SEELE wanted to happen as well. I realize Gendo wanted to be reunited with Yui via Instrumentality; what I don't get was what did he have in mind that would require him to sneak around behind SEELE's back unless the way they planned to use Instrumentality was in some way different?


Rei's AT-field Powers?
Downright simple. She is no different from Kaoru as he said himself. Connect the dots yourself.


But Kaoru could only produce an AT field because he was an Angel. So how did Gendo manage to create a human clone with the powers of an Angel?


Adam and Lilith? Adam is the Angel that nearly destroyed the world. Lilith is the source of all humans. (Kaoru called human Lilians)

But how did they get ahold of Lilith? How did Lilith give birth to humanity? Why were the Angels trying to reach Adam? If that was Lilith on that crucifix, than what did Gendo do with that piece of Adam that Kaji gave him? And where exactly did the Lance of Longingus come from?

The series left a lot of unanswered questions.

[Strollymonster]

But NERV is a U.N. organization, so does SEELE work with/control the U.N., or is this an off-the-books sort of thing, and just how much autonomy does Gendo have?

NERV is more or less able to do whatever they like, thanks to SEELE. SEELE is the uber-secret organization that's been around for a VERY long time (millenia+ I believe). They're the ones that possess the secret Dead Sea Scrolls that foretold the events of NGE. SEELE does not exist in any official capacity...only a select few know of it's existence. Whereas NERV is a more public organization (they do put their logo on everything :anime: )

SEELE created GEHIRN (later became NERV) in order to advance their plans to engineer Second Impact and eventually cause Third Impact. They do this in order to minimize the damage caused in the first case and to try to control the Instrumentality for the latter.


Well, in episode 25, Misato said that Gendo caused Instrumentality to happen, which seems to be what SEELE wanted to happen as well. I realize Gendo wanted to be reunited with Yui via Instrumentality; what I don't get was what did he have in mind that would require him to sneak around behind SEELE's back unless the way they planned to use Instrumentality was in some way different?

Gendo does want Instrumentality, but he is not interested in SEELE's desires for power.

His main method of getting his own agenda in over SEELE is Rei. By using her as a vessel for Lilith and then becoming the most important person to her, he hoped to manipulate her in Third Impact to reunite him with Yui, rather than advance SEELE's "gain power for ourselves" plan. You see, they wanted to survive Third Impact and come back like Shinji and Asuka do at the end of EoE.


But Kaoru could only produce an AT field because he was an Angel. So how did Gendo manage to create a human clone with the powers of an Angel?

Actually, we find out in EoE: All living things possess AT Fields. They're simply the barrier that surrounds everyone's mind and keeps people as separate entities.

As Kaworu stated, he and Rei are the same. Rei is a clone of Yui Ikari spliced with Lilith, giving her said angel powers. Similarly, Kaworu is essentially a human with an Angel's soul, allowing him no real powers of his own, but being able to freely sync with an empty Eva.


But how did they get ahold of Lilith? How did Lilith give birth to humanity? Why were the Angels trying to reach Adam? If that was Lilith on that crucifix, than what did Gendo do with that piece of Adam that Kaji gave him? And where exactly did the Lance of Longingus come from?

SEELE found Lilith where she is now, crucified at the bottom of the Geo-Front. The Angels were trying to reach Adam because it would cause Third Impact if they joined, which is the ultimate goal of the Angels...it's why they're attacking in the first place, and it was foretold by the Scrolls.

The Adam embryo ends up fused to Gendo's right hand. He joins with Adam much like Rei is joined with Lilith. In EoE, he tries to start Third Impact by combining with Rei, but she simply takes off his hand, then fuses into Lilith, coming off of the crucifix and starting Third Impact.

I couldn't really tell you where the Lance came from, but I do know they used it to start Second Impact and didn't recover it for about 15 years, finding it again in Antarctica where they left it.

EoE does answer a lot of the questions, but the series ultimately is open-ended as far as interpretation goes...that's one of the reasons I love it. It means something different to everyone that sees it.

[Vallen Valiant]

Which, for the record, is....?

It's not important. Seriously, you are better off not knowing.;)

In fact, if you think you need to know where the Angels come from to understand Evangelion, then you are way off base.

e.g.:
When you watch the ID4 Independence Day movie, did you need to know where exactly was the star system and planet the Aliens came from, in order to understand the story?

[The Myst]

Just speaking for me personally, I think it would be interesting to know where the angels are from, even if it's not integral to the plot.

[Swordfish_II]

Just speaking for me personally, I think it would be interesting to know where the angels are from, even if it's not integral to the plot.

I read on a site somewhere that the PS2 game says some alien species was spreading seeds over the galaxy, and two of them ended up on Earth. The Black Moon of Lillith (GeoFront) and the White Moon of Adam (under Antarctica) and the Angels, being the offspring of Adam, are the true successors of Earth. Or something.

Anyone else care to verify this?

[The Myst]

I read on a site somewhere that the PS2 game says some alien species was spreading seeds over the galaxy, and two of them ended up on Earth. The Black Moon of Lillith (GeoFront) and the White Moon of Adam (under Antarctica) and the Angels, being the offspring of Adam, are the true successors of Earth. Or something.

Anyone else care to verify this?

If that's correct, I think I was better off not knowing...

[Vallen Valiant]

I read on a site somewhere that the PS2 game says some alien species was spreading seeds over the galaxy, and two of them ended up on Earth. The Black Moon of Lillith (GeoFront) and the White Moon of Adam (under Antarctica) and the Angels, being the offspring of Adam, are the true successors of Earth. Or something.

Anyone else care to verify this?
I don't generally like to do this...
No, there is no such thing as true or false successors. There was merely a grave error that gave one planet two seeds when it was suppose to receive only one. Like a flower pot that had two competing plants growing next to each other, only one plant will survive...



If that's correct, I think I was better off not knowing...


That's the price of the Fruit of Knowledge. If you want the truth, you get the truth. And you can never get back to ignorance ever again.

...You know what, no matter how many times I tell people they are better off not knowing, they never seemed to listen. If you are not prepared to hear a truth that was less glamorous than the fantasy you constructed, don't ask for the truth.

Reality is only for those who truly seek it.

[djthomp]

Hmn, you know I think I like knowing. But then my fantasy of the truth wasn't that glamorous.

[Sandoz]

That's the price of the Fruit of Knowledge. If you want the truth, you get the truth. And you can never get back to ignorance ever again.

...You know what, no matter how many times I tell people they are better off not knowing, they never seemed to listen. If you are not prepared to hear a truth that was less glamorous than the fantasy you constructed, don't ask for the truth.

Reality is only for those who truly seek it.
Neon Genesis Evangelion: Serious Business.

[The Myst]

That's the price of the Fruit of Knowledge. If you want the truth, you get the truth. And you can never get back to ignorance ever again.

...You know what, no matter how many times I tell people they are better off not knowing, they never seemed to listen. If you are not prepared to hear a truth that was less glamorous than the fantasy you constructed, don't ask for the truth.

Reality is only for those who truly seek it.

Well, I never had a preconceived notion or anything really. I just wanted to know. My only problem with the explanation is that it just sounds really lame.

[Vallen Valiant]

Well, I never had a preconceived notion or anything really. I just wanted to know. My only problem with the explanation is that it just sounds really lame.
People used to believe planets and stars move across the sky because God Himself pushes them around personally with His own two hands. Then we found out about this boring "gravity" thingy.

The whole point about looking for the truth, is that the truth is the only thing you were ever going to get out of it.

Gainax never attempted to make a big deal out of the origin of the Angels, because in reality, it wasn't a big deal. Hence the final two episodes never touched on that matter.

Truth is its own reward. Expecting anything else (like enlightenment, meaning of life, 42, etc) is just setting yourself up for disappointment.

[Obi]

I don't generally like to do this...
No, there is no such thing as true or false successors. There was merely a grave error that gave one planet two seeds when it was suppose to receive only one. Like a flower pot that had two competing plants growing next to each other, only one plant will survive...



That's the price of the Fruit of Knowledge. If you want the truth, you get the truth. And you can never get back to ignorance ever again.

...You know what, no matter how many times I tell people they are better off not knowing, they never seemed to listen. If you are not prepared to hear a truth that was less glamorous than the fantasy you constructed, don't ask for the truth.

Reality is only for those who truly seek it.

Holy crap, dude, it's just a tv show.

As for me, I'm glad I know it now because it was bugging the heck out of me.

[Master Moron]

You know, I always thought the angels were actually messengers from God. I read it on a website, like several years ago. So, if they aren't actually messengers from God, why are they called Angels?

[Duke]

You know, I always thought the angels were actually messengers from God. I read it on a website, like several years ago. So, if they aren't actually messengers from God, why are they called Angels?
English mistranslation (though I believe intentional). :p They're called Apostles in Japan.

[Sandoz]

English mistranslation (though I believe intentional). :p They're called Apostles in Japan. Yep, GAINAX specifically requested that they be called "Angels" in English, which you can see printed on a lot of official Eva merchandise straight out of Japan.