Strange Cartoon Dark Age...

[JohnCrichton]

It's weird, I think this is a Dark Age of cartoon, but not nearly as bad as pre-BatmanTAS, where reruns of the Disney Afternoon ruled the airwaves.

Toonami's become DBZ-heavy and can't seem to focus or get excited about anything else, Fox Kids the best production and presentation of cartoons has fallen from weekdays, and KidsWB is posing as Toonami but with none of the heart.

Yet some of the best stuff in ages is all on the air at the same time! This is hand down the best season of DBZ I've ever seen, Power Rangers is as good as its ever been with Wild Force incoming soon, and althought I don't watch KidsWB there seems to be no doubt that it has a cool line-up with Card Captors, Jackie Chan Adventures and the still going strong Pokemon.

Something really doesn't feel right, but we still have on some of the best stuff ever seen on all at the same time.

Indeed, a strange "Dark Age" we live in....

[pencilsharp]

It may be a dark age in some quarters, John, but it all depends on your opinion on just what is available.
Toonami has indeed become DBZ heavy, and will become moreso once Dragon Ball GT hits. But I consider that to be PART of the dark age of Toonami. I got sick of DBZ after it took about two weeks for one fight. That may appeal to some, but not to me.
Kids' WB! may be drawing good ratings with their lineup too, but again, most of it does not appeal to me. Jackie Chan Adventures (man, almost called him Charlie Chan :rolleyes: ) seems pretty weak to me, and Pokemon actually went into its death throes last year.
For my money, the Darkest Age has hit Nickelodeon. That channel, once the powerhouse of TV animation, has had more misses than hits lately, though I think that, given the shows you mentioned, you might like Invader Zim...
So is this a Dark Age for TV toons? Not quite, I believe.
But it is getting kinda dim...

[JohnCrichton]

Yeah, I dig Invader Zim and although I don't watch alot of other stuff like Jackie Chan and Pokemon... they still seem to be drawing in the ratings and popularity.

I might not watch some of that stuff, but it sure seems like somebody is watching it.

Anyway, yeah.... weird dark age we're having lately......

[Overkill of ASE]

It'll be a Dark Age when no cartoons are shown.

Or, at the very least, when Scooby Doo is the only cartoon shown. We've always had a plethora of crappy cartoons floating around and only a few good ones to pick up the slack. There's no difference today.

[JustJack]

'tis a dark age indeed. But, is it America's fault? Sure, Japan DOES get a lot of the good shows(probably because their writers are both educated, & have more on-air liberty). Does that mean they should come to America? Sure, in DVD form, but NOT on TV. It only gets kiddified, and the true fans get REALLY angry(hmm...can you say "escaflowne"??).
Meanwhile, American shows continue to drop in quality? While Jackie Chan Adventures is good, the animated sometimes is VERY poor. The Mummy has very sad animation as well. Alienators..its varies between episodes.

*sigh*, no one really cares for the cartoon world, anymore? But, I promise, that if my comic book career EVER was turned into an animated one(I have a few comics that could be fine cartoons), I will put in 105%, just to make it the best I possibly can. Hopefully this next generation cares enough to pull us from this rut.

[kiddiesunshine]

jack, you do comics too? so do i. anyway, did someone say power rangers is good? spewwww!!!

[Lachesis]

Hey, hey hey. . . leave the Disney Afternoon out of this. Let's not forget Duck Tales was the show that set the new quality standard after a decade of Care Bears and He-Man.

Dark age? I don't think so. Not yet. We've definitely leveled off some, but there's still a lot of good mixed in with the bad. CN's been growing in leaps in bounds while Disney and FOX have more or less shrivelled up and died. The only thing that really worries me is that there's no real outlet for adult animation anymore (AS doesn't count since CN's proved pretty gutless). I'm waiting for the next Spawn or Aeon Flux to roll around without much hope. And the death of syndication hurts too.

[Chad Bonin]

kiddiesunshine, Power Rangers Time Force was better than any Power Rangers, but Power Rangers in Space.

Yeah, this is kinda of a weird time for cartoons. On one hand, you've got the renaissance (Batman on DVD, Jackie Chan Adventures, Justice League, Samurai Jack, etc.), while on the other you've got the dark ages (Mon Colle Knights, Scooby Doo, etc.)

Eh, it's an alright time. Could be way better, could suck even more.

[JustJack]

First of all, Power Rangers is getting better. Actually watch it sometime, instead of just remembering how it was....ack..

My main problem is with the animation of todays cartoons. So many anime series have such great animation, smooth animation, detailed animation. And don't get me wrong, I LOVE Samurai Jack...but the animation is just so..."Dexter". Y'know? And I am still a little upset with Justice League. Its not quite up to par with B:TAS, if you ask me. Eck.

P.S-Dude, sunshine! We should swap stories or something, sometime?! haha ;) :D

[joker]

there are a lot of good shows out there, they are just mixed in with the crap that has taken over the air waves.

[Supernovametalstar]

I don't mind Moncolle Knights. Just from looking at it, you can tell it was never meant to be anything but a joke. I actually find it amusing most times. But last weeks episode was out of place for the series, as it had this dark tone to it (in case you didn't watch, it was about this fallen angel not realizing he wasn't totally evil, but didn't exactly like the good side any more).

I think the animation market will pick up in a couple of years. It ebbs and flows. The 70's to early 80's was reruns of Looney Toons until the action toons of the mid 80's started and the importing of anime. This continued until the mid 90's when there was a glut of bad shows that no one liked and the ones that used to be good were either taken off (He-man), rehashed into crap (Ninja Turtles), or ended up on cable stations that few people had. Plus, syndication was starting to die down.

Today we have better animation in most cases, like X-men: Evolution, but less than exciting stories, also like X-men: Evolution. I'd say that most shows are mediocre at best right now (Static, Zeta). And now that the last major player in the biz is downsized, Fox Kids, that only leaves one network: Warner Bros. With no direct competition their product will become stagnate.

But who knows, after a decade of warm and fuzzy educatainment toons, the next generation of kids will see some old tapes that we made and demand programs the way we used to like them.

[joshualane]

"Strange Cartoon Dark Age"...huh?

Do you know how often people say it's the "Dark Age" of cartoons? I swear, it must be a monthly thing where someone seems to think that cartoons just aren't as good as they once were.

Those of you who grew up in the 80's swear that cartoons will never be the same as they were in that decade with Transformers, GI Joe, He-Man & Thundercats. Those of you who grew up in the 90's swear that Batman, Spiderman, and X-Men are the greatest cartoons ever and nothing will be able to top them. Those who are growing up with today's Pokemon, Digimon, & Dragonball Z will eventually swear that cartoons will never be as good as they once were.

Now, I totally agree that the disappearance of Fox Kids in the afternoons and the multiple Saturday morning changes are bad signs, but come on. We have THREE 24-hour animated TV stations in Cartoon Network, Boomerang, and Toon-Disney. We also have the animated programming that ABC Family, the Disney Channel, Nickelodeon, and Fox run on a regular basis, not even touching on whatever will be left on Saturday mornings and weekday afternoons.

How about I also touch on the fact that numerous cartoon series are seeing renewed life thanks to the DVD format that they would have otherwise never seen. Some series are even being revived thanks to nostalgia, like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Transformers, He-Man, etc.

Thanks to movies based on comic books, we are getting the new X-Men Evolution series as well as an all new Spiderman CGI series sometime next year. CGI is also growing in leaps and bounds and both Shrek & Monsters Inc both grossed well over $200 million dollars this year at the box office.

More and more anime is being brought over from Japan so we have and even LARGER selection of quality animated programming to entertain us. More than ever, adults have been given animated programming to enjoy with Southpark, Futurama, Family Guy, the Simpsons of course, and we can't leave out the entire Adult Swim lineup. A number of other programs have become cult favorites for adults like Invader Zim and Spongebob Squarepants.

Things are definitely changing and evolving in the animation arena, but I don't think we're even close to being in a "Dark Age". Like Overkill of ASE said, "It'll be a Dark Age when no cartoons are shown."

...and last time I checked, Power Rangers wasn't exactly a cartoon so why is it even being brought up?

[pencilsharp]

After looking over everybody else's posts, I just wanted to add one more point to this "dark age" thread before I turn in.

The most exciting changes come with a "changing of the guard" as it were. When a new generation comes along, it's usually the most talented who have the greatest impact, at least at first. Look at SuperFriends vs. Justice League. By and large, the same characters, at least in name, but with very different interpretations. When I was a kid [Geezing ON] I would watch SF, and I was content with that. Heck, it was Superman! Batman! Wonder Woman! So what if there were add-ons, these were the Greatest Heroes of all Time! Yet, after a while, as I aged, I thought, this isn't good enough. Even now, when Boomerang airs old SF eps, I can't help but see the gaping plot holes and really bad dialogue.

Now, we have JL. The Gen-X version of SF. Sure, we have little quibbles and complaints, but this is still OUR interpretation of those classic heroes. A new generation has come in and is changing animation, slowly but surely, and turning it into a real storytelling medium.

But, even now, we see signs of strain. Fox, the vanguard of Gen-X TV, is running out of new ideas. Even KWB! is having some troubles and is growing more dependent on imports. Of course, the fact that CN is demanding more and more of WB's animation studios is part of the problem, but can you see the big picture here?

It's time for a change.

We, the Xers, had to fight for every inch of ground that we got. But now, we are starting to hit our 30s and 40s, and we have realized that we now have careers, and the "Cover Your Butt" mentality that goes with them. We have lost our nerve. Not all of us, just a good deal of us.

It's time for our kids to start taking over.

Whether you call them "Gen-Y" or whatever, they are now the fresh blood, and it's time for us to start making room for them. The cool new creative stuff will come more from them and less from us. New blood gives new life, especially to animation. New styles, new ideas, new directions, all from new blood.

And that's my last 2c. Now what will I do for a retirement fund? :wakko:

[JohnCrichton]

Power Rangers is a live-action cartoon, therefore still counts.

And I never said that today's cartoons weren't any good, or inferior to yesterdays 'toons.

Just saying presentation and availablity is deminishing in kind of an odd way..

Not an actual Dark Age because there's still good stuff out there, but a Strange Dark Age as in how the cartoons of late are being handled.

[BibidiBabidiBuu]

Its not so much of a Dark Age but more like the 80's, the good toons may be scarce but just like how the 90's destroyed the evil of the 80's (big hair....*shiver*) it will take time before we go back to the glory days.

Toonami will have new anime (hopefully, more mature animes), Scooby Doo will only be shown twice a week, Simpsons will actually be funny, smart-action toons (a la Batman), Pokemon will only be shown once everyday, no more KWB toonami, Adult Swim will actually show"Adult" animation instead of crap like ATHF and The Brak Show.

[Naraht]

Bleh, the only thing PR:TF had going for it was the Pink Ranger...the 1st pink ranger to actually be useful & good looking! =D

I dunno...there are good shows out there, there are bad shows out there. As I age, I find that the quality of the animation takes a back seat to the stories...
Unline mainstream entertainment, the animated world is putting out stories in shows like Samuri Jack, Big Guy & Rusty, and Batman Beyond...that live action wouldn't touch. add in the fact that the shows can be downright funny at times, I don't see how people can sit through an ep of "Friends" or "The Ellen Show"

[Overkill of ASE]

JC, PR is not really a cartoon even in the traditional sense.

car·toon (kär-tn)
n.

A drawing depicting a humorous situation, often accompanied by a caption.
A drawing representing current public figures or issues symbolically and often satirically: a political cartoon.
A preliminary sketch similar in size to the work, such as a fresco, that is to be copied from it.
An animated cartoon.
A comic strip.
A ridiculously oversimplified or stereotypical representation: criticized the actor's portrayal of Jefferson as a historically inaccurate cartoon.

Four out of five definitions say that it must be drawn for it to be a cartoon. The fifth definition is also very shaky, as PR doesn't seem to be parodying anything (but itself, since it's so terrible).

Let's get back to the meat of the argument, real cartoons, not random-plotted, live-action fighting shows.

[Skiptastic]

I think the problem with cartoons being better is that the masses are becoming more and more interested with computer animation, the excellent Japanese cartoons that are waiting to be brought over to America to large audiences cannot find a place to chill (ex. it took a whole block of scheduling for CN to get Cowboy Bebop here), and when good Japanese animation comes to America, it is a cult thing, not yet being inflitrated into American society. This is why I love Pokemon and mourn its waning popularity. Pokemon was a huge thing and will lead the way for more and more Japanese animation that would not have come over. And when those kids who watched Pokemon get older, theyll be ready for more adult cartoons.

The dark ages of cartoons is now, but with shows like Batman Beyond/TAS as a guide, childrens cartoons can become more darker. BUT only if the bigwigs learn that kids can handle these types of darker shows and not cut them to bits and pieces (Im mainly talking about what happened to the Return of the Joker movie). I'm sure to all of you here this is old news, but by learning from past mistakes and successes, this dark age will bring about an Enlightenment for cartoons.