The precarious future of post numbers

[Failure]

With all of the commotion surrounding the post-numbers controversy, I wanted to hear people's opinions and suggestion on what to do about post-numbers. Not to persuade the mods or anything, but just to get a general idea on how people feel about this.

Personally, I like post numbers. I cant really explain why. I pay a lot less attention to them than I used to. I mean, as I'm writing this I couldnt say where my post count is. All I know is I stopped paying attention after 500. But with that said, I want to keep it around, maybe just for sentimental value? I dont know, it might be totally irrational, but I think the numbers are kind of fun.

But lately it seems like some people might be taking these numbers as a basis for competition, and I'm not pointing fingers or anything, I'm just saying it seems like it's happening a bit. So I completely emphathize with the mods, feeling like they have to do something to fix this soon.

As for suggestions, I'd like to avoid having to get rid of post counts. I remember a while back, I think Cal suggested something in the vein of keeping post counts hidden. This might be a good idea, in that it might help newbies feel less intimidated initially or it might help people feel like their involved in a community and not a competition. My suggestion (and it's not even really mine :p) is very rudimentary and scattered, but I thought maybe others had some good suggestions/ideas.

[Alaskanbullworm]

I like post counts. I think others are competing, because they see most post numbers pretty high and they feel that they should be up there so they don't feel bad being a newbie.

[Bird Boy]

I'll admit...I like post counts...BUT...I honestly stopped caring after I broke 100. Why? I dunno..it's just one of those "landmark" things, and after that..nothing really matters that much.

I'm guessing the Newbies want high numbers because then they will look 'cool' in the eyes of some. But, that's just a guess...

If a newbie came here and saw all these people with high post counts, he might want to jump in and try to get high ones too. However, if they are, I'm going to use a term that I've heard used alot lately, "out of sight, out of mind", they won't pay nearly as close attention.

again, that's just my oppinion..

-BB

[Brian Cruz]

One idea us mods had been discussing even before the recent controversies, was removing the post count numbers from

<------here

and only having it in your profile.

[Naraht]

I told ya I was lurking...

ok, playing Devil's Advocate...

If post numbers are only available in one's profile...ppl might be MORE likely to start "Look at my post count" threads, as it won't be readily available for others to see.

Just a thought.

Ok, I'm off....=p

[killercroc]

Having never posted an "I reached ### posts" thread, I like seeing the counts. I like looking over at my post count and thinking "Not a one of them was pointless."

Even at the very beginning of the bragging about post counts, I always thought it was pointless. I'd see one of those and think pretty much what DG said to Naraht "How many of them were as pointless as your last one?" Too bad there's not a way to make the counts show how many of our posts have actual points to them.

I'm not pointing a finger at the Mods, even though they were the ones that started the tradition. Just saying I though those particular posts were pointless. Thing is, it used to be people making lots of insightful posts and then bragging about their post count. It's kinda evolved into people making a bunch of pointless posts and then bragging about their post count.

[Failure]

I like the idea BC, that's what I assumed would happen by making the post #'s "hidden."

What if the "Look at how many posts I have" thread was banned as well? I wouldnt have any problem with that. That seems to be the spark that set the whole controversy off.

[Brian Cruz]

Originally posted by naraht
If post numbers are only available in one's profile...ppl might be MORE likely to start "Look at my post count" threads, as it won't be readily available for others to see.

That was one of the arguments used by the mods who wanted to keep it. Other mods thought that not having the number in plain sight would make it "out of sight, out of mind". We actually held a vote, and it was something like 14 votes to drop it and 5 to keep it. But the final decision is still up to me.

[Alaskanbullworm]

Maybe there could be a choise in your profile that asks if you want others to see your post count or not, so the people who don't care about them won't have it and those who do like it could keep it. Just a thought.

[Spider-Man]

I don't plan to ever put up those "I reach [whatever number] posts". To me, they seem silly. I can understand the excitement when these new boards just got up (like I said, I've been ghosting for a long time), but the novelty wears off. These boards have been up for...what? 8 months? You'd think it would get old. And the idea to remove post counts from the post is a smart one. I think this will work becuase people probably aren't interested in other people's post count. I couldn't care less who has whatever number for a post count, so I doubt I'd ever ask or brag. AND it could work becuase when a newbie signs on, and people don't see the number, the newbie won't be pressured to post a handful of useless posts to bump themselves up. I like how the old official Marvel boards and current DC Comics have their post numbers- in the profiles.

[Nightflower]

Originally posted by naraht
I told ya I was lurking...

ok, playing Devil's Advocate...

If post numbers are only available in one's profile...ppl might be MORE likely to start "Look at my post count" threads, as it won't be readily available for others to see.

Just a thought.

Ok, I'm off....=p

Not really.
It may not be readily available for others to see, but it's not available to the would-be "look at my post count" thread started either. Think. How often do you check your profile? As often as you see it straight from the board on your posts? Do you remember what you wrote down for hobbies? Biography? With it being more out-of-reach, it becomes less important and less of a big deal.

That said, I don't mind the post counts. But I can see how they can lead to competition and newbies feeling like they have to catch up to be "important".

[Maxie Zeus]

Originally posted by naraht
If post numbers are only available in one's profile...ppl might be MORE likely to start "Look at my post count" threads, as it won't be readily available for others to see.

I'm one of the guys who worries about this happening. I can see that, with the post counts "hidden" only on the profiles that it wouldn't happen very often, but when it did it you would get a geyser.

I'm generally in favor of leaving the post counts out in the open. One reason is that gives people a quick way of recognizing if they're dealing with with newbies or old-timers. Granted, there's the "registered since" tag, but there's nothing knocks home the fact of experience like seeing "800" or "1500" (or "40") posts next to a name. I think it might be especially useful for new arrivals, to sort out who is old and who is new like them.

Personally, I would like it if we could just stigmatize these kinds of posts without having to ban them. If we could just rely on people not to rise to the bait, and to remind any newbies who do make this kind of post that it's an unmannerly sort of thing to do. I suppose that's the sort of job we mods could do, to discourage these posts without actually banning them. I don't like the banning option; I mean, it's not like saying "I've got x posts" is like using profanity.

:sigh:

[Stupendous Man]

I hate it when the masses are punished for the
mistakes of a few people who lack common sense.

Thats what this thread seems to be about..
One or two people have abused the post counts
and now we all have to lose them for the few who
cant employ self controll or good manners?

Personally , I like the post counts.

Ive never worried about what my tally was
though. Ive never posted just to beef up the score.

I think people should be more concerned about the
content of there posts rather than which number it is.

I do think that the post counts do give a certain sense
of community... I like looking over and seeing if someone
is new to the board or a veteran.
(It does not impact my opinion of the post in any way.
an interesting post is an interesting post wether its
post number 3 or 3000)

Why not just ban or end threads where this is an issue ...
I dont think Ive ever opened a thread where someone
bragging about how many posts theyve attained.

Why cant the moderators just delete posts that are
irrelevant and pointless ...or obviously meant to boost
posts?

[SonGoku V3]

Well, I'm new here, and I actually like the post count, just to keep up on what I've been doing and how much I post. Like sometimes, I just look over and say, "damn, I've posted that much since January began...", or something like that. I think post counts become a problem when people use it to give off an elitist, "i've been here longer than YOU!!!11", type attitude, or when people use it to hike up their post count just to seem cool or whatever. Other than that, I see no problem with post counts, unless there was a big problem with people starting the "look, I made X amount of posts, love me." type threads before I came.

[Calhoun07]

Originally posted by The Spirit
I hate it when the masses are punished for the
mistakes of a few people who lack common sense.


I totally agree there. This whole thing started because a banned user posted endless amounts of useless posts just to see his post count jump up. But for every one of him, there are 1000 people on this board who act responsibly. And if "I posted X number of posts" threads bother you, DON'T READ THEM. Heck, not even the moderators are required to read each and every post on the boards, so if you don't like it, just ignore it. End of story.

I am the moderator who first suggested hiding the post counts on the profiles, but that is IF Brian decided to remove them. Rather than remove them completely, just hide them. But you know what? I am even against hiding them, though that was my suggestion. That was just a way to meet a compromise, but the more I think about it, two users that had a problem with it should not be deciding factors in what the rest of us who are responsible and happy with the way things are.

Personally, I like to see my post number under my avatar. Ever since post 334 (the number of posts I had on the old boards) it's been pretty irrelevant to me how many I had, since that was my only real goal to reach, but seeing that number is like a sense of accomplishment at recognition for hard work, if that makes sense (I know I want to describe it differently but can't right now). It's kinda like a person wearing a name tag at a store you go into and it says how many years experience they have under their names. Should that store get rid of that off the name tags if an employee gets hired and suddenly feels jealous of John cuz John has 15 years more experience than anybody else? No, of course not, that is on the name tags to give honor to the more experienced members of the team.

Maybe some newbies post alot at first because they want to be seen as having that experience, but in all seriousness, there was only really one who made it annoying, and I am not naming names, but if we have to warn and admonish one out of a 1000, then oh well. That's what moderators and administrators are here for, to help keep this place fun. And it's fun to see our post numbers, so I say keep them under our avatars.

[Failure]

Well, if we could keep things as they are, I'd support that first and foremost.

[pencilsharp]

Cripes. This must be the new "thread that will not die." :D

I vote for keeping the post totals. Why? Because it helps keep me in line. I am a relative newbie (about two months and counting) and seeing my meager post count as compared to somebody else's 5000+ posts reminds me that I am not the voice of God here (that would be Maxie... :p )

So put me down for keepin 'em, for all that's worth. If anybody steps out of line, let us, the TZ community, deal with them.

BTW, nice to see ya still lurking about, naraht! How's the Shadow doing these days? Dot, give him a little somethin-somethin. :dot:

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

I haven't read everyone's response, but I personally don't like what the post count has started to become. People are beginning to judge themselves (and others) by their post counts, and that isn't what I necessarily like. We judge people by what they post, not by how many--that's how I see it.

However, a quick glance shows that many people like post counts. Perhaps the mods could find a way for people to choose whether they want to show their post count or hide it. Something you can turn on or off on your own options or profile screen. Kinda like the on and off option for the invisible mode (showing who is online and offline).

[Mr. Obsession]

Originally posted by Maxie Zeus
I'm generally in favor of leaving the post counts out in the open. One reason is that gives people a quick way of recognizing if they're dealing with with newbies or old-timers. Granted, there's the "registered since" tag, but there's nothing knocks home the fact of experience like seeing "800" or "1500" (or "40") posts next to a name. I think it might be especially useful for new arrivals, to sort out who is old and who is new like them.
I've got to disagree with part of that. Sure most of the people who have over 500 have been here since around the time the new boards were created. But over all I feel that post counts mean squat. Look at some of the most intelligent posters around here, some of them don't have more than 100. I believe your favorite example is the Old Maid. Sure she only has like 85 posts, but everyone of them is a doozy, she's just one smart cookie. Personally I believe that how long someone has been here is more important.

That being said I do like the post counts. Plus it's fun to congratulate someone when the reach a milestone. That being said I'd like to say "Way to Go!" to Bird_Boy who's just about to reach his 2000th. Way to go man! :)

Maybe a solution would be not to remove the post count, but to move where it's listed. What happens to me is that my eyes are drawn to it because it's located below the Date Registered and Location identifiers. Maybe by switching it's place with the Date Registered you might be able to place more emphasis on how long somebody has been here, rather than "how much they like to talk."

[Alaskanbullworm]

The only time I ever tried to get many posts was to get my avatar. Ever since, I just spoke my mind about many things. Sometimes when I notice what my post count is, I think, "Did I really have that much to say".

[The Mad Hatter]

Well, I originally voted to hide the post counts in the profiles, but now I'm not so sure. I think it honestly boils down to the benefits received vs. the frustration involved. And, over the past few days, there has been a LOT of frustration. It really is nice to be able to estimate the length of memberhood from the post counts, but I might be willing to sacrifice it if it could avoid the strife it occasionally breeds. But this is coming from someone who rarely glances at the post counts. If the people as a whole really like them... I don't know, this is something the mods are going to have to devote a lot of brainpower to.

[Calhoun07]

Originally posted by The Mad Hatter
Well, I originally voted to hide the post counts in the profiles, but now I'm not so sure. I think it honestly boils down to the benefits received vs. the frustration involved. And, over the past few days, there has been a LOT of frustration. It really is nice to be able to estimate the length of memberhood from the post counts, but I might be willing to sacrifice it if it could avoid the strife it occasionally breeds. But this is coming from someone who rarely glances at the post counts. If the people as a whole really like them... I don't know, this is something the mods are going to have to devote a lot of brainpower to.

The frustration you speak of is only brought on ourselves by focusing on something so trivial. I am not trying to hurt anybody's feelings, but I am going to speak my mind: big fat hairy deal that Narhat left. I am not trying to say I am sorry to see him leave, but if he wants to go, then let him go. I hated seeing people make post after post of all these "Oh, please don't go" pleas. That just brought focus and attention on his post thread more than ever before, and that attention has been negative, IMO. Narhat didn't focus on his post number, he just posted a milestone he happened to be proud of, much like many of us had done, and the responses were almost instantly negative, even from mods who questioned the substance of his past posts.

Want to stop the frustration? Stop making a mountain out of a mole hill. Stop focusing on this trivial matter and get on with your lives. And for God's sake, stop judging other people's posts against everybody elses for substance, deeming if it is more worthy than another post. There is an "ignore" feature on these boards if you really have a problem with another poster who isn't breaking any rules but annoying you.

My suggestion is leave things the way they are, close all the threads about posts, and just get on with our lives. I am sorry if I stepped on any toes here, I tried not to, but I think we all can learn something from all this.

[Maxie Zeus]

I think calhoun is right that we've become a bit obsessive about this topic. Perhaps it's time to draw a veil back over it.

[Calhoun07]

I guess I too should clarify some points I was trying to get across last night. It's not that I don't care if Narhat leaves (in fact, I think I was one of the first to post my disappointment in his leaving) but what got to me was everybody (myself included) assumed it was because of the reaction to his post counts and people kept on posting about him, his post counts, and about him coming back even after he posted emphatically that it wasn't because of the post count thread that he was leaving. Perhaps that was the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back.

I guess that's why I wanted to discourage the subject from being carried on any further, not to publicly say we don't care if a poster leaves. We DO CARE, but sometimes there are circumstances in somebody's life that we may not know, and do any of us honestly know for sure why Narhat left? We just assume (again, myself included) but when the poster who left comes back to say, "Hey, that's not why I decided to leave" then I take that at face value and have to wonder why the topic is carried on any further.

So I apologize to anybody that took my post the wrong way last night. Heck I knew it might step on a few toes, but I certainly didn't want to paint a picture that we as moderators of the boards don't care if people come and go and the circumstances surrounding that. I am just as sad to see Narhat go as the next guy, but when he comes back and tells us plainly that there are other reasons involved in his leaving, then I respect that and I felt the pleas to have him come back ignored what he came back to tell us.

And to further clarify, I don't think the "I have X# of post" threads are annoying. If you have a personal goal you want to reach and you are happy when you reach it, I think people should feel free to post that. All I am saying is if you are a person who does not like those types of threads, don't read them. But I like to see people have fun with those types of threads, so if you post them, I will read them and congratulate you on reching your goals.

[Kal-el]

I don't care about post counts. When I post anything, I feel it is something of worth. I could care less what my post count is. If somebody wants to post all day and all night just to see a bloated post count show up under their avatar, fine. Just don't forget to have some kind of life in the process.

[Stupendous Man]

ALLLRIGHT !!!!

This post makes 218 ! 250 here I come !!!

~

So whats everybody talking about here ?