Fresh Question #6: TV's Before The Bad

[Nightwing]

Happy New Year posters! I know the time is just flying by but fasten your seatbelts long enough for a new FQ. See, as the years pass we always fear for our favorite TV shows because 99.9% of them "decay with age" so to speak. Sooner or later, something goes bad. So pick a show you used to love and
get nostalgic with me for a sec:

When and how did a show you once loved go from something you can't miss, to a sad and unfortunate disappointment??

[Karkull]

When NBC bought The Naked Truth from ABC and screwed the formula up by making it another of their "wacky office shows."

[DR. BELCH]

--Sliders killed off Prof. Arturo and all the scripts just became lame rehashes of popular movies.

[Maxie Zeus]

The Simpsons, when they really did turn Homer into "Capt. Wacky."

[Trent Lane]

When Dark Angel went from a can't miss, well thought season one to "let's copy that whole Splicers thing from the Batman Beyond show", occasionally catch it season two...

[Failure]

The X-Files, when Chris Carter started creating and dropping storylines on a whim. What happened to the black oil, the bounty hunter aliens, the upcoming alien invasion? How did the human-replacement aliens storyline turn into a super-soldiers storyline?

The Simpsons, when it stopped being timelessly funny. To be honest, I think last season was funnier than this season has been so far. It was weirder, but funnier.

Buffy, after it moved to UPN.

[Captain Caps]

"The Simpsons", last season was the last time I regularly watched it, and more and more, people were saying the episodes were poorly thought out and mean-spirited. I agreed, and I haven't watched since last season. Hell, I don't even bother with the reruns anymore (I've seen all the episodes at least 10 times).

Sincerely,

John "Captain Caps" Kilduff

[Fantasie117]

Originally posted by Dr. Belch:
Sliders killed off Prof. Arturo and all the scripts just became lame rehashes of popular movies.

Absolutely. I was going to mention that when I read the question. I didn't even watch the series finale 'cause I was so upset by what had happened to the show.

I used to watch Farscape in its first season, and I thought it was great. Then, at the end of first and into the second season, something changed, and I just couldn't watch it anymore.

[Maxie Zeus]

Addendum: Frasier: when Daphne and Niles got together.

[Nightflower]

Buffy, when Angel, Cordelia, and Oz left, Riley-the-bland-boy was introduced, the initiative brought too much Sci-fi into the show, Willow, an established heterosexual became gay (YES, darn it, she was an established heterosexual!), Spike got the chip in his head and started whimpering after Buffy, and when they devoted an entire episode to sex (Spirits feeding off sexual energies, my butt!)

Babylon 5, when a fifth season was granted, but material was all used up in the previous season.

The Simpsons, when....when.....it started to SUCK.

Gargoyles, when it became "The Goliath Chronicles."

[Supernovametalstar]

Dawson's Creek when it became Pacey's Creek last season.
90210 when Jason Priestly left.
X-files for the reasons stated above.
Sliders for the reasons stated above.
Hunter when the got rid of McCall (or did she leave the show?)
Ninja Turtles when the got rid of Michaelangelo's nunchucks and replaced them with some sort of grappling hook.
Andromeda (I know I'm going to hate them for resolving a potential season long storyline in a couple of episodes and changing the Romy and Trance's look).

[Overkill of ASE]

The Simpsons, 1/4 through the season after Part II of Who Shot Burns. Every year since then it has gotten steadily worse until last year it became completely unwatchable.

May it die a slow, painful death for its betrayal.

[G. Wen]

I remember Buffy when it used to be good. Now it's just a show about a bunch of sex driven people. Honestly, if I wanted to watch a show about sex driven organisms, I would watch the Discovery Channel's documentry on the mating habbits of insects!

[DarthGonzo]

Simpsons I think we all agree that this was the best show on TV at one time. I cant think of any episodes made before 1997 that I didnt like. It was one show with a very high rewatchability factor. And then mid-way through the 9th season I realized something...I wasnt laughing as much. By the time the 11th season started, I wasnt laughing at all. The show is now mean-spirited, all over the place, staining for laughs with sex, drug and gore jokes and spends way too much time on Captain Stupid, better known as Homer J. Simpsons. This show has to end soon.

Ren and Stimpy Man, this show was incredible in its first season and a half or so. Then Nick decided John K hadda go and the show immediately fell in the toilet. Funny thing is, they kept it going for more than two years, even though 90% of the episodes SUCKED! By the end of the series the horrible episodes outnumbered the good ones by a wide margin. I get physically, mentally and emotionally depressed when I watch later episodes.

Pinky and the Brain Witty and thought-provoking, and it was a children's show! And it was getting so much better, too. The animation from Wang was coming into its own and the voice acting was terrific. Then SOMEONE (I'm pointing at you, Speilberg) decided it would be cute if they introduced Elmyra. BAMMO, instant death!

TMNT When the animation budget was cut back and the plots just got really silly. TMNT meet the Easter Bunny? Android Irma? Oh please...the animation became so bad that the colorists forgot what colors to paint the different turtles. Even when they tried to up the budget and make new episodes they fell into the trap of using Shredder in every friggin show!! What were they thinking?! And you anyone really care about April, Bern, Vernun and Irma?

Rugrats Ok, this show was cute when it was fresh. Now it's overplayed to the point where I absolutely HATE it. Not only is it on every single day at least five times, it's spawned so many Klasky Suck-o shows that I can barely stand to watch Nick anymore.

I almost mentioned Animaniacs but that show had a really healthy run anyway, and when it finally ended I felt it was time. People pleading for new episodes of this show have to realize that everyone who worked on it has moved on and its not gonna happen. Too bad it's trapped in the worst kinda re-run hell on Nick.

Darth Gonzo

PS: Like Tom and Jerry artwork or the cult 80s show Small Wonder? Go to http://www.geocities.com/darthgonzo2002/index.html
it's a work-in-progess site I've just started.

[joker]

the season of buffy when dawn was introduced was when i stopped watching.

[finbarlafume]

X Files: I used to watch this show every week without fail. And then, one week during season 5 I missed an episode and realised that I didn't care. This show should have ended a long time ago. I don't even watch it at all any more.

Simpsons: Should have ended about 5 years ago. It was once one of the greatest shows on tv but how the mighty have fallen.
I prefer Family Guy now.

Rugrats: Please end this show now. I can't stand it any more.

Star Trek: I watched all the original series in reruns and TNG on their first showing. I used to think it was great... and then the rot set in. Paramount just keep churning Trek out like a sausage factory. There were a few eps of DSN that I liked but Voyager was the absolute pits! I hate that show with a vengeance. End Trek now I say.


In many ways I'm glad that some of my favourite shows ended when they did ( Babylon 5, Quantum Leap, Tiny Toons )
If they had of gone on too long the rot might have set in. As it is, I'll always remember them as classics :)

[Joker85]

B5: Fifth season was a MAJOR disappointment
ST: Voyager: Seasons 4-7 pretty much went down hill.
Law And Order: Stories suck ever since season 7, it's been on WAY to long
Third Rock From The Sun: Got to weird and stupid

There are more, I just have to go try to remember them!! ;)

[Calhoun07]

Deep Space Nine, the last season. I lost all interest in the show for the most part with the new Dax. I hated her, I resented the old one for leaving the show and forcing the writers to scramble together to make a new story line in the midst of what should have been the strongest season in the series. I will more than likely catch up with it on DVD, and hope my hatred for her simmers down, but them forcing her introduction really threw the beat of the series off.

X Files really should have ended with season 7, 8 at the latest. But I lost all hope for the show when Ducovony left.

Simpsons, somewhere in the midst of last year's season, when I realized they were never going to bring back the humor that made the show so great to begin with.

[Manhunter]

Originally posted by Nightflower
Gargoyles, when it became "The Goliath Chronicles."

AMEN!

[Kal-el]

Dukes of Hazzard when Bo and Luke left (because of a contract dispute), then came back. The show was never the same.
Knight Rider when KITT was outfitted with warp-speed mode.
X-Files when Mulder left (though I still can never get enough of Gillian Anderson...yummy)
Saturday Night Live...many reasons.
The Tonight Show when Johnny Carson left.
Many more, can't think now...

[Jedigreedo]

Well for me, Voyager was ok with the few continuity errors and such, but the last episode(s) really were kinda lame, and then Enterprise came along and all it is to Berman&Bragga is a cash-cow by the useage of sex, some heavy CGI stuff, and just no originality.

I'd have to agree on Gargoyles, I never really watched the series when it was originally on but I was catching it on ToonDisney for awhile but then they switched to the Goliath Chronicles and you could even tell by the massive changes in the intro that it took a turn for the bad so I haven't watched Gargoyles in a while.

I think just about all things that were on in the 90's that were good and had a really excellent chance of staying alive for a long time were being watched carefully by ratings-hungry-stations so when ratings were really high they would pick up the show and then change it alot into something with cheezy gimicks and old jokes and of course sex to keep an audience watching it no matter how bad it was so that the station would be getting alot of money out of it while they hardly have to work.

[Zorakfan]

Temptation Island.

'Nuff said

[Calhoun07]

Originally posted by Zorakfan
Temptation Island.

'Nuff said

Not 'nuff said! When was this show ever good?

[Naraht]

ok, 1st off, I disagree on the B5 thing....yeah Season 5 had it's bad points...but it also had some of the best eps of the run (IMO)
DS9...I grew to like the new Dax...

shows that I do think needed to be killed long before they were (or haven't)
South Park...1st season was GREAT! Now...Bleh.
EFC - I dunno...it was ok, now it's less so...
I dunno...I don't watch the simpsons much anymore, but when I do, i'm still amused..so..

Bleh..

[Crazy8s]

How about Real Ghostbusters, which went horribly wrong once the censors lobotomized Janine, changed Peter's voice and went on to hand the show over to Slimer. Gack!

I never really 'loved' Buffy, but I could watch it with some enjoyment before it became 'Buffy, The Vampire Boinker' with a heavy helping of 'I Was A Lesbian, Magic Addicted Witch'. When was the last time we really saw Buffy taking out vampires instead of laying them out (nothing against Spike--he's the only character I really like in the show)? And as one who follows a more pagan view of things, I find the insinuation that magic is addictive and destructive kind've simpleminded and insulting. And yes, Willow was an established heterosexual character. Why is the only 'true romance' on this show (I can't take the demon/girl and Xander seriously) a gay one? I'm just to hetero to enjoy this.

[Elven Moon]

x) The Simpsons - I usually just watch the reruns on FOX now, because I really can't sit through a new episode... it's lost it's magic, and they're running out of ideas. They need to bow out and leave it the way it is before it gets worse.

x) Sabrina the Teen-age Witch - This came out when I was a sophomore in high school, and I'd been reading the comics, so I absolutely loved it (taped every single episode)! After it moved to UPN, however, I just stopped watching. With no Harvey, or Libby, or Valerie, I don't really care about her college adventures.

x) Rugrats - This show was cute and charming before the HUGE popularity boom (to this day I can't figure out how that happened). Now I'm sick and tired of it! Just end it already... or are you planning on making a series based on their teen years?

[Karkull]

Gargoyles was already mentioned, but worth mentioning again.

Does anyone here watch The Man Show? It really bugged me when the Fox died right when the second season started and the hosts never referred to him again. All he got was a blurb at the end of the credits on the season premiere, like they said "he's dead, oh well."

[Calhoun07]

Originally posted by Karkull
Gargoyles was already mentioned, but worth mentioning again.

Does anyone here watch The Man Show? It really bugged me when the Fox died right when the second season started and the hosts never referred to him again. All he got was a blurb at the end of the credits on the season premiere, like they said "he's dead, oh well."

I don't think they brushed his death off. Jimmy was visibily troubled about his passing in that first episode of season two, and you can't exect them to be wearing black arm bands for the rest of the series. They do that ziggy zakky thing (sp?) at the end of each episode in honor of Fox.

[Zorakfan]

No, I mean temptation Island ruined television. Forever.

[Samhaine]

Doug was ruined after it moved to ABC. I loved that show on Nick, watched every ep, and when I finally got a chance to see new eps, I was excited. Then I watched it. Yeah, very dissappointing.

[DisneyBoy]

Well it's not animation...but Ally McBeal has gone down the tubes...there's no depth any more...it's just stunt after stunt to try and raise the ratings...

Wish they'd release season DVd sets though....the first two seasons rocked :)

[Evil Dr. Reef]

As I've said on a few other boards, Gargoyles was utterly trashed when it went to ABC. And now, "The Tick" has been cancelled again, or so I've heard. Poor Big Blue guy.

[SilverKnight]

I have a theory. No show should really last beyond seven or eight years. After that, the writers have to scramble for something fresh and new, more often than not failing.

The Simpsons: The old episodes are still funny, but without even having to watch for the past couple of years, I realized the new ones were gonna suck hardcore, and I haven't even bothered since.

Frasier: It's getting tiresome.

Friends: It WAS funny. Once. Now it's just stupid drama crap that I could just as easily watch on Days of Our Lives. >shudders to think< AND they turned Rachel into a slut.

Sliders: It was cool when I first watched it, but when I started watching reruns of the later seasons, I was forced to look away or risk my eyeballs being burned out.

DS9: I peronsally couldn't stand the show right from the get-go, but it was tolerable in its first season. The day Sisko came in bald was the day I left.

Voyager: I thought the show was pretty good, honestly, but the recent shows bit the big one.

Babylon 5: The fifth season had no material. Otherwise, it's a great show.

Actually, most of the powerhouses on TV today should be cancelled, letting some new blood in. However, judging by the recent trend of Disagree-ality TV, that may be worse than what's on now. >shrugs<

[Calhoun07]

This thread could evolve into discussing shows that left the air on the top of their game. I think Seinfeld really knew what he was doing when he ended his show. I know there were many people who didn't want to see him go, and NBC was ready to throw buckets of money at him, but he knew what periled shows that over stayed their welcome, and for that, Seinfeld will always have a good memory in the minds of the fans.

Any other shows that timed their departure from TV well, before they got tired and old?

[SilverKnight]

Actually, I think Seinfeld left a year or so too late. The last season of the show was watered-down and sloppy, in my opinion. The final episode reeked. >shrugs<

But if you ask me, the show Wings left just as it should have. It was still popular, it still had all the laughs, in my opinion, and it hadn't become stale. Although it wasn't as funny as when Lowell was there, it still was a front runner, in my mind.

Star Trek: The Next Generation is another one. Okay, it's been cancelled for 8 years, but still, I remember watching it as a kid, and as I'm rewatching it now, I find that I still enjoy it; even more now than as a child. But, had they continued, I fear that it would have suffered from the inevitable degrading of script quality--as shown by the last TNG movie. >shudders< Well, that's my humble opinion, take it for what it's worth.

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by calhoun07
Deep Space Nine, the last season. I lost all interest in the show for the most part with the new Dax. I hated her, I resented the old one for leaving the show and forcing the writers to scramble together to make a new story line in the midst of what should have been the strongest season in the series.

Like you said, if anyone deserved resentment it was Terry Farrell for leaving and forcing that situation. I don't see how you can blame the new Dax, the writers, or criticise the entire season for that. The Ezri Dax hardly took over the storylines.

I would mention Star Trek as something I was a big fan up to the end of DS9. But Voyager was terrible and Enterprise hasn't been any different. Like someone said above, just end Trek now. Or at least give it a break of about 5 years.

The other show I'd mention is X-Files for all the reasons mentioned already. But since X-Files is now apparantly ending at the end of the season, I think I'm going to be watching again. If Carter is going to close out the major storylines of the series then I can't miss that. I've been watching Alias on Sundays at 9, but it's started to bore me a little, so I'll probably switch back to Scully, Doggett and company.

[Calhoun07]

Originally posted by DarkAngel


Like you said, if anyone deserved resentment it was Terry Farrell for leaving and forcing that situation. I don't see how you can blame the new Dax, the writers, or criticise the entire season for that. The Ezri Dax hardly took over the storylines.


I just didn't care for the actress portraying the new Dax, is all. I know she's very popular in Canda and probably has a lot of fans, but I just didn't care for her. It's just one of those things, but I didn't blame her. I don't think I would have cared for her much even if she came in to play a completely new character and Terry Farrell stayed.

And I don't criticise the entire season for that, I just lost touch with the last season because 1) I didn't like the story lines as much 2) it was on really late and then they changed the time slot a few times where I live, making it hard to catch up on and 3) I figured I just needed time away from the whole Star Trek franchise before I got too sick of it. Sometimes I need to take breaks away from things I like even a lot so I don't get sick of it. But I do have all the last season episodes on tape, so maybe one day I will watch them all and catch up on what I missed. Or I just might wait for the DVD season set!

[Kal-el]

I actually really liked the last season of DS9. Even though the entire series was a great departure from the established Trek, the last season, for me, really captured the feeling of a great war and the loses suffered during that war. It showed a side of Star Trek that hadn't and hasn't been shown since...a non-utopian environment. TNG was clean and sterile. Voyager (which I also enjoyed) was a little too perfect for my tastes (7 years and the ship looked as good as it's first day...not too likely). DS9 was the gritty, dark, get your hands dirty, blue collar Star Trek. To me, a character like Chief O'Brian summed up the 'feel' of the series perfectly. Even the new Dax didn't bother me so much. It was a bad situation, but it was handled about as well as could be expected.
Anyway, what was the topic?

[John-Paul]

Friends:It's-still-my-fave-show-but-defnitley-this-season.Rachel-having-Ross'-baby-and-Joey-is-secretly-in-love-with-her?!?!?!?!?

It's-becoming-a-fricken-Soap!

[zero zero nine]

there's a whole website about this atJumptheShark.com (http://www.jumptheshark.com)

enjoy!

[James]

Originally posted by Maxie Zeus
Addendum: Frasier: when Daphne and Niles got together.

I TOTALLY agree!

There is a rule in TV (actually it's law - I can't recall it's name) as soon as you bring two characters in a series together which were previously creating sexual chemistry you kill the series.
Examples of which include Moonlighting and The New Adventures Of Superman...

Actually, in Fraiser's case it is actually a little different - because there was NO chemistry between the characters - that was what made it funny. Fraiser has become unwatchable because of it!

Back OT...

I disagree with the X-Files - I'm still enjoying it. The less serious the one offs get the better and I think Robert Patrick is excellent!

Moving on....

Babylon 5: Series 4, 5 and the films - Series 4 started to show wear mid season and then picked up again. Series 5 went up and down, again picking up end of season then the movies that just went doooooowwwwnnnn.... Real shame. Highly rated at the time, people now look back at the series with bitter disappointment!

Battlestar Galactica - Battlestar Galactica 1980? Nooooooooo! What an abysmal concept as the network plunged into the franchise to recoup some cash by turning it into a BAD kiddies show. A tear to my eye....

V - The Series. The Mini Series was great, the Final Battle wasn't bad. The series was laughable. I love it in honesty, but it is SO trashy it makes me cry and by the end of it they can afford about 5 main characters out of a cast of 20 odd. Even Michael Ironside had to be kicked cos they couldn't afford him! How sad....

Voyager - Never been good - got worse, then got better then, after several series, it ended on the duffest note possible.
Firstly, Neelix wasn't burned/maimed/crushed into a ball and hurled into the bin/disintergrated. Great pity.. ;)
Second, Chakotay and 7 Of 9 just was NOT believable and insulting. Apparently, the suits were uncomfortable with Seven being with the Doctor (which was were there was clear chemistry) because people maybe turned off by the thought of the Doctor naked in bed!! Sorry, it's a scifi show, my imagination doesn't extend that far with any character and furthermore, what happened to the Star Trek message of equallity and not judging a book by it's (apparently too ugly) cover? That would have been far more realistic (the hologram and a cyborg - realistic? :p) - characterwise that makes sense. I just found that sort of poor thinking and studio manipulation very irritating and just SHOULDN'T happen!
Third: The dreadful end episode. I'm glad that show is over!

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by SJJ

Voyager - Never been good - got worse, then got better then, after several series, it ended on the duffest note possible.
Firstly, Neelix wasn't burned/maimed/crushed into a ball and hurled into the bin/disintergrated. Great pity.. ;)
Second, Chakotay and 7 Of 9 just was NOT believable and insulting. Apparently, the suits were uncomfortable with Seven being with the Doctor (which was were there was clear chemistry) because people maybe turned off by the thought of the Doctor naked in bed!! Sorry, it's a scifi show, my imagination doesn't extend that far with any character and furthermore, what happened to the Star Trek message of equallity and not judging a book by it's (apparently too ugly) cover? That would have been far more realistic (the hologram and a cyborg - realistic? :p) - characterwise that makes sense. I just found that sort of poor thinking and studio manipulation very irritating and just SHOULDN'T happen!
Third: The dreadful end episode. I'm glad that show is over!

Couldn't agree more, SJJ. The Chakotay/Seven "relationship" came from absolutely nowhere. The show's writers never seemed to comprehend the idea of development. They just threw things in whenever they wanted.

I really shouldn't have been surprised, though. The fact is, there was never ANYTHING believable about the show. With the ship in perfect shape, the crew looking all pretty and clean, all their resources perfectly intact, and no apparant morale problems despite being alone in the delta quadrant, I'm not sure why the Seven/Chakotay really stood out. All were equally ridiculous. And it's a shame too, with such a good premise.

[Calhoun07]

Hate it as much as you will, but the Chakotay and 7 relationship was more tolerable than the Worf/Deana relationship.

[Nightflower]

Originally posted by calhoun07
Hate it as much as you will, but the Chakotay and 7 relationship was more tolerable than the Worf/Deana relationship.

At least that came from somewhere at all, as opposed to two crewmen who were barely ever seen together getting slapped together in maybe one or two episodes prior to the finale.

And that season finale used every single crutch that made it so bad! Time-traveling - the Borg - sheesh!

Sexual chemistry is always tricky. First of all, sexual chemistry isn't enough to drive a show for many years, after a while, people just get sick of it. Then again, once a couple gets together on TV, it becomes stagnant, and the writers usually have to pull them apart again or throw some things in the mix to make it interesting.