Justice League "Metamorphosis, Parts 1 & 2" Talkback (Spoilers) [Archive]

SageHare6

10-04-2002, 07:42 PM

All in all, I found this ep pretty entertaining. I like the fact they GL had a moment to reflect on his own life choices and voiced a bit of regret/speculation. I think GL's reactions and reflections upon meeting Rex again were key in making the GL and Rex relationship believable. :D As to Papa Stagg... Do I sense some Reverse Oedipus Complex going on btw papa Stagg and daughter Stagg? What kind of father brings a dozen roses to his daughter? :eek: Creeeeepy.

Visually, I was pretty amazed by some of the animation used in this ep. For starters, I noticed that with this batch of character designs (rex mason, papa Stagg, etc.), the animators seem to have gone back in time to something more "Dick Tracy-esque". Kinda like the first story presented in "Legends of the Dark Knight", the character designs seem to use more pen/ink lines for the face and eyes. Other things I found neat was the opening shot when Supes, HG, and MM fly into the city. Though I'm not sure where Supes and MM went after HG and GL went to apprehend the bank robbers.

Though I can't help flashing back to "Feat of Clay" at times. Can't say I know much about Metamorpho, but for any hardcore DC fans out there, "how true is the animated Metamorpho to the comic version?" The wood chips, the fire, each limb a different color... I can't help but feel that Metamorpho looks rather comical.

And there's the rub.

Character development wise, I think the Rex Mason, arrogant opportunist is great in this ep. However, the final product with Metamorpho's character design is kinda lacking.

JMHO :wakko:

gtracer72

10-04-2002, 07:43 PM

This was cool. Rex Mason is awesome. I like the story and I like where it is going. I gave it 4 stars.

JusticeLeagueLegion

10-04-2002, 07:44 PM

Holy cow!! What a great episode!! Much better than last week's episode! This was great, we saw how Rex Mason became Metamorpho. (My favorite Outsider) And the villain was not super powered for a change...he was just a regular bad guy, only he had bad looking hair. Sapphire kind of looked like she was drawn by Jack Kirby...was it just me...or did she have that Kirby-esque style? I think Metamorpho is auesome and I wish that we could see part two right after part one, but oh well. It was great...I'm sure part two will be better though. Perhaps this may be my favorite episode...I had been waiting on an episode that I'd like enough to be my favorite and it looks like this might be the one. It was an excelent episode. I thought this was a lot like a Batman: TAS or Superman: TAS episode...it had a great story, and it wasn't just about Superheroes vs. Supervillains...not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's just nice to have a switch every now and then. Great episode...50 stars!! But since I can't give it that many...5 stars indeed!! Timm and friends...keep the good JLA episodes comin'!

JTurner954

10-04-2002, 07:48 PM

I can see where people wouldn't like this episode. This week's episode and the last two parter feels different, not like other weeks where you can tell it's a JL episode. Anyway, I liked it more than Part 1 of the Etrigan episode. I find it a bit ironic that Clayface vs. Inque wins the Delaney Poll and the villain tonight also can travel in a similar way. 4 stars nevertheless.

That outfit the guy wears looks very familiar. Was this villain based on another character? Does another villain (Marvel character perhaps?) wear a similar costume??

czyznyck99

10-04-2002, 07:48 PM

Stark (oops, I mean Stagg) Enterprises comes up with a new life survival suit called Iron Man (ack, I meant Metamorpho). Tony Stark (ehh, Rex Mason) has a horrible accident, and needs the suit's powers to survive. :rolleyes:

Ahh, for get it, next I'll be saying Sapphire should be Spiderwoman and GL should be War Machine. Len Uhley wrote the ep (he also wrote for Iron Man). Am I the only on whole saw the parallels. Eh, 3 stars, it was my low-rated "not bad" category for a reason.

Later.

Storm

10-04-2002, 07:48 PM

Great episode. I loved how we got to see the character Metamorpho. Good story. Good animation.

4 stars

slackermonkey

10-04-2002, 08:01 PM

Originally posted by JTurner954
That outfit the guy wears looks very familiar. Was this villain based on another character? Does another villain (Marvel character perhaps?) wear a similar costume??

If you're referring to Metamorpho, I can't think of any other character that he resembles. If you're referring to Simon Stagg, I'm sure there are many comic book villains who wear power suits. :)

Btw... Metamorpho's been in the comics since about the mid-60s and was a short-time member of the Justice League (don't expect him to join in this episode though). He's not a villain; he's only antagonizing the League because Stagg tricked him.

Anyway, I give this episode 3.5 stars. It plodded along pretty slowly and the only character who was really involved in the story was Green Lantern (okay, maybe Hawkgirl, but only for a second). I've always liked Metamorpho, though.

JTurner954

10-04-2002, 08:06 PM

Originally posted by El Goober
If you're referring to Metamorpho, I can't think of any other character that he resembles. If you're referring to Simon Stagg, I'm sure there are many comic book villains who wear power suits. :)

Something about that outfit and the way it looks reminds me of another character. Not necessarily a person of the same build.

SageHare6

10-04-2002, 08:13 PM

Seeing as I can't get "Feat of Clay" out of my mind :D , I'm sure most all of us remember when Hagen first saw himself as Clayface. That transformation was very dark. What's interesting is that I think the people behind JL were trying to recapture that same dramatic moment of a "transformation" w/o showing us the transformation. Though the chamber scene and with the alternative Titanic "hand on glass" moment achieves a dramatic moment, it's the aftermath (Rex in bed at the hospital) that I think fails in its execution.

Much like Hagan, Rex wakes up and sees himself in the mirror. Yet, there was no really dark revelation. At first I thought it was the charater design of Metamorpho who, for all his shape-shifting qualities, doesn't come off to be very menacing. But then, I think that whole scene was a little off in terms of lighting and tone. Two-face discovered his transformation in a hospital, yet here, the tone is gravely dark. With Rex, though the reaction is one of horror, the scene is not truly horrific. JMHO :confused:

Finally, I say "Kudos" ;) to the writers for developing some rather complex and downright weird relationships. It's very courageous of them to play certain angles like reverse Oedipus complexes. I noticed this in the last ep, A Knight of Shadows, with Morgaine and son. I hope they continue to do more with these psychological profiles, b/c it's this, more so than special powers, that really fleshes out each villian and superhero. :wakko:

Palin Dromos

10-04-2002, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by JusticeLeagueLegion
Sapphire kind of looked like she was drawn by Jack Kirby...was it just me...or did she have that Kirby-esque style?

Actually I thought Stagg looked like another homage to Kirby himself, the eyebrows the chin. Like Dan Turpin from S:TAS.

I enjoyed getting even more background on GL. I think after seeing In Blackest Night, Legends, The Brave and the Bold and Metamorphosis we get a pretty good idea of who Jon Stewart is. I think Wonder Woman's the only other character who they've really worked on fleshing out. Now when are they gonna tell us about Flash or Hawkgirl.

We're so close to finally seeing all the season 1 episodes here in the States.

All-Star 1.5

10-04-2002, 08:20 PM

Originally posted by czyznyck99
Stark (oops, I mean Stagg) Enterprises comes up with a new life survival suit called Iron Man (ack, I meant Metamorpho). Tony Stark (ehh, Rex Mason) has a horrible accident, and needs the suit's powers to survive. :rolleyes: Later.

Actually, the suit isn't a suit it is a gentically altered human being(GAHB) that has the power to surive any element by becoming that element, and rex dosen't need the suit to stay alive because he is the suit I mean he is GAHB so now he has powers and stuff.

Hmm interesting episode. I mean Rex Mason his off flirting on the train when he is about to get married I guess he must like danger and living on the wild side and Simon Stagg has a thing for his daughter now that's just creepy.

Overall a great episode gets 4 stars from me. I hope we get to see more of MM's powers that were hinted on in AKOS. The animation looks great so far. Sure the story came off on a slow start, but started to pick up the pace fast. This is why I can't wait to see part 2.

Does any one else think that A Knight Of Shadows and Metamorphosis should reair on Halloween Night back to back and back to back? I mean how cool would that be seeing how a AKOS is on Halloween and deals with things of that nature while Metamorposis is like any 50's monster movie.

Joker85

10-04-2002, 08:35 PM

Man, I can't believe so many people didn't like this episode! I loved it!! It was so much better than A Knight of Shadows or even the first part of Injustice for All. The whole process of how he became Metamorpho was really cool! The big guy kinda reminded me of Grundy a little, lol. I never knew much about Metamorpho before, so I was wondering why he'd all of a sudden hate GL. Of course, now it makes sense! :D I think the highlight of the episode for me was the Hawkgirl/GL scene. These two have had a lot of great moments like this sense the show premiered and I hope they continue the friendship in the second season. Like I said, great episode, a good 4 1/2 stars. I hope part 2 will be just as good! :)

Terminatah

10-04-2002, 09:02 PM

You guys remember when Bizarro thought he was Superman, so he tried to make his own Krypton, and he thought it looked fantastic, but in actuality, he was wrecking a perfectly good city? Well, if I were to go by this episode, I would say that JL is the Bizarro to BTAS' Superman.

This new villain looked really ridiculous, as did practically all the characters in the episode. What's up, man? Also, the writing wasn't much better than the animation. So many plot devices, such little substance.

If I could say one thing to the main guys who put this episode together, it would be, "Make better episodes."

-Terminatah

BeastBoyWonder

10-04-2002, 09:08 PM

I thought this created a solid foundation for what has the potential to become a great villian...great dialogue, great character development...this felt like an actual "story" rather than an epic battle gone wrong. We learn quite a bit about John Stewart...he was a bit of a jerk in "The Enemy Below" (which is understandable), but other than that I'm really liking him. I'm glad they picked him as a member of the League, because so far he has seemed to deliver us the most actual content. One thing I noticed, it seems like he and Hawkgirl have grown to be pretty good friends. That's one of the things that I've liked about this season, even in "War World" they put John together with Hawkgirl, and throughout the season they grow to be friends. I could actually relate to this story, because misunderstandings cause a lot of problems, especially in matters of the heart. Granted, its not as dramatic as "Two-Face" or "Feat of Clay", but for a JL episode its pretty darn good. Hopefully this doesn't turn into another "great setup, but part two stank royally" episode. They've got a great story on their hands; I hope they can handle it correctly.

EDIT: After reading the post above, i've been able to get the idea I was thinking of into words...This episode had a strong plot, but was a little lacking in the dramatic department, like most of the episodes in the series. This episode, by giving me a taste of what we used to have, reminds me that JL is not like the shows before it. While this might not be a bad thing, I don't think its really consistent with what's happened before. With all the arguments about "continuity" stemming from the Teen Titans series, I've gotta say that MY continuity is BTAS, STAS, TNBA, and BB...I consider JL "elseworlds".

Anarky

10-04-2002, 09:43 PM

I liked it...then again I like any oppurtunity to learn about the DCU.

Mr. Stagg looks he could've fathered The Music Master (from Legends). Star Wars moment: "I AM YOUR FATHER!" NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!"

judging from the previews, part 2 should be a throwback sci-fi B-movie monster romp. Could be fun. Could be cheese. Won't know til next Fri nite.
Out!!!!!

JohnStewart-GL

10-04-2002, 09:47 PM

I found this ep to be quite good. I like it more than "A Knight in Shadows". There was plenty of character development for John in this one. I think i liked it more than "In Blackest Night" also. Metamorpho is pretty cool too.

Sandro

10-04-2002, 09:55 PM

This episode was okay in the story department and lacking in the quality department. I actually felt sorry for Mason (which I guess was the whole intention). The story is moving rather slowly but I guess it'll pick up in the second part (I hope). 3 stars.

metaphysician

10-04-2002, 09:59 PM

This episode wasn't bad. The only real complaint I have is that the conflict between Rex and John, before and after the mutation, seemed a bit forced. Overall, the episode wasn't bad. And I agree, there is *definitely* a GL/Hawkgirl thing going on.

Hopefully, part 2 isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

Barb Gordon

10-04-2002, 10:35 PM

Seriously, how can there not be a Hawkgirl/GL thing going on?! ;) Anyhoo, this is one two part where I wasn't able to get a good enough feel for what I thought about it. Normally I can tell whether I'm going to like the entire episode, or if it seems a bit weak to me. This one really left me guessing. It really focused alot on the story, which was good, setting up a lot of groundwork as it seems most of the action comes in the second part. But I just couldn't tell whether I like this episode, how much, and where it ranks compared to the other eps. Although I can already tell it wouldn't be among my top three or something. I wonder where Flash and Wonder Woman were this time around, and for that matter, we've gotten some good eps focusing on specific characters, when is Flash going to get one? It seems like Gl has already has two.

~Barb

DisneyBoy

10-04-2002, 10:39 PM

John Steward and Hawkgirl? Ummm....no. They have no chemistry. Visually or otherwise.

Now Flash and Hawkgirl...well look at "In Darkest Night" Part One. There was loads of chemistry flying around!!!

"Down Boy!" ;)

slackermonkey

10-04-2002, 10:41 PM

Originally posted by Barb Gordon
I wonder where Flash and Wonder Woman were this time around, and for that matter, we've gotten some good eps focusing on specific characters, when is Flash going to get one? It seems like Gl has already has two.

"Brave and the Bold" was Flash's spotlight, but it really didn't add much to his character. Hopefully they'll give him more depth next season.

I'm just wondering when Hawkgirl's getting one...

JLU Dude

10-04-2002, 11:03 PM

Again, another excellent epsiode. I felt sorry for Rex. Good to see MetaMorpho on Justice League. Too bad, he (Like Aquaman) won't be a member. Can't wait for Part 2.

JusticeLeagueLegion

10-04-2002, 11:26 PM

Metamorpho was also once a member of the Outsiders from the "Batman & The Outsiders" comics...just to add to El Goober's point. I think that's what he's best known as.

Serenity

10-05-2002, 12:26 AM

Metamorphosis was ok, it was a bit weak to me.
I did enjoy it but I found it a bit boring too.
What I did like is the character development for GL/John Stewart.

But my major negative points is Rex Mason's Fiancee and her father.
I felt this creepy Vibe that the Father seems way to close to the daughter and the Father totally creeped me out.

Also I hated Rex Mason's Fiancee's voice . she had this squeaky voice that came off as a bimbo.

Over all I gave it 3 stars

DCU Bat

10-05-2002, 01:21 AM

Originally posted by ragingdrummerboy
EDIT: This episode, by giving me a taste of what we used to have, reminds me that JL is not like the shows before it. While this might not be a bad thing, I don't think its really consistent with what's happened before. With all the arguments about "continuity" stemming from the Teen Titans series, I've gotta say that MY continuity is BTAS, STAS, TNBA, and BB...I consider JL "elseworlds".

Lemme get this Straight. You think BB is in coniuinty and JL is an Elseworld? (slaps his forehead.) Caramba!!

Bleu Unicorn

10-05-2002, 01:23 AM

http://www.dollysdoghouse.com/smileys/rant.gif After watching "A Knight Of Shadows" I will honestly say, that I thought the best of the best was finally coming. (I do still hold out hope for "The Savage Time.") But this episode was way down low on my list. Not only did just about everything in it appear stupid, forced, contrived...or down right wrong. The character designs made me want to laugh out loud!

Rex, who's first action in the episode is to flirt with another woman, who is not his finace', comes across as a major jerk to me. He comes off as one of GL's oldest and dearest friends...then not five seconds later he's attacking him. Trusting the word of the person who doesn't want him anywhere near his daughter. Yeah, that doesn't seem glaringly dumb to anyone else? Not only that, he just does stupid thing after stupid thing after stupid thing. It's not even worth listing here, but anyone with half a brain wouldn't have put themself into the situations he put himself.

Granted, we all understand that Metamorpho had to come into existance. And here lies more patheticness. This entire transformation, save for the actual transformation, comes across as not only weak, but very rushed. And am I the only one that wants to know where he pulled his underoos from? Was he just created with them...? Never mind, I don't want to know. :) And since we're talking about Rex, let's bring in Sapphire...or should I say "tramp"? Now there's a lot here that is just downright crud, imho, but that towel thing was just disturbing. <shudders>

The character designs...oh boy! They were just comical in their stupidity. Big chubby cheaks and funky eyebrows and weird hair. Stagg reminded me of a cross between a cabbage patch doll, Ra's al Ghul and Dan Turpin, with maybe a quarterback thrown in for good measure. And Jawa (Java?) -- anyone else see Kalibak in human form, with a bit of Solomon Grundy's mental and physical attributes.

And I'm not speaking for anyone else, but I found the animation kind of sloppy...especially with Metamorpho's powers. Whereas we have Inque and Clayface morphing all over the place, his powers seemed sluggish and sticky, almost hanging in the air.

All in all I found this to be a very below par episode. Maybe "A Knight Of Shadows" has me spoiled, but the sluggish story and just plain oddness within this episode force me to give it 2 1/2 stars.

EDIT: I was so busy ranting, I forgot to mention my one big gripe (not so much with this ep, but in general). How come GL ends up with all of these spotlight episodes, when for instance Hawkgirl hasn't even had one?

redDragon

10-05-2002, 01:52 AM

Well I really feel like nitpicking this ep to death and normally I don't nitpick, maybe I'm just in a bad mood today so bear with me. And yes it does go into the little details. ::takes deep breath::

When I first saw Java my first impression was "Look! It's Kalibak as a human!" and Mr. Stagg reminded me of someone, not sure who but someone.

Sapphire just bugged me, I don't know how or why, she just did.

That case was so HUGE! But the vials looked really small, and it was so light that it just slid off other cases??? And it just happened to open? I would have thought there would be better locks on the thing.

Rex Mason. Man was he messed up! Well GL was messed up first. He jumped Rex the instant Batman told him that Stagg Corp had some illegal mutagens. You would think that since they were friends he'd be a little more polite about it.

But back to Mason. First he tries to find out information from big boss Stagg in the first place. Second he has the NERVE to then tell him that he accepted a new job in Chicago and was taking Stagg's daughter with him. He then totally missed the fact that Stagg was about to kill him for taking his precious daughter away (red roses, giving your daughter red roses has GOT to tell Mason something). THEN he believes that his girl is cheating on him with GL. All because of two pictures that Stagg got for that express purpose of blackmailing him. Maybe I'm being too logical for the story but wouldn't you be suspicious of someone showing you incriminating pictures of their own daughter?

"Oh there was a terrible accident!"

Accident, right. I highly doubt that upon finding the security guards are not answering and going into a room where said intruder is and seeing a beaker on the floor, going to pick it up and being incased into a chamber where you are then transformed into a completely different life form was accidental. (The description for the ep is kind of misleading too. Accident it was not.)

Anyways, back to Mason believing Stagg. Now GL and Mason ended on a bit of an unfriendly note but still. He's just going to start flinging fireballs at an old friend? Without even asking him his side?

Oh another nitpick. Does everyone who rips off a hospital gown magically wear underwear?

Nitpick # 5 million. They were all searching in pairs. Is there a reason why? They were all fairly close to each other while doing so too.

Character development. I know jack about that so I'll let that subject be.

I have to agree with whoever said that GL should have at least gone to check on the people in the train. What town are we in btw? When I first saw the train not stopping I thought Superman would have jumped in front of it to stop it (hey he did it before).

Ok I'll stop. Can't think of anything else at the moment either. Ranting/nitpicking at stuff is fun.

I give this ep *** stars for a Batman appearance and not being completely bad.

Batman's Biggest Fan

10-05-2002, 08:49 AM

In response to a previous post. Yes we do know a lot about GL and WW now. So they should concentrate a little more on Hawkgirl, Flash, and MM. Since Batman and Superman (As much as I hate to admit it) don't need one until we finally get to see more into the background of those three members.

Bleu Unicorn

10-05-2002, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by Batman's Biggest Fan
In response to a previous post. Yes we do know a lot about GL and WW now. So they should concentrate a little more on Hawkgirl, Flash, and MM. Since Batman and Superman (As much as I hate to admit it) don't need one until we finally get to see more into the background of those three members.
I agree completely; while, I don't think Batman and Superman should be totally left out -- the fact that GL has had, what three episodes (if not more) this season...leaving MM and WW with two each, who are also new characters to the animated world and should also have been explored. But Flash having only one episode isn't right either -- nor is completely leaving out Hawkgirl. I think it's almost laughable that a character that is technically a sidekick is the one that is left out...or maybe it's cause I just woke up and I'm crabby still. :)

Mister Intensity

10-05-2002, 10:21 AM

While I don't consider this one of the strongest Justice League episodes, I was entertained. There were a couple of things that were too tough to swallow, particularly Rex so easily taking Simon's word that Sapphire was cheating on him with John. In my eyes, a big problem was that they had to tie the origin into the main story. Personally, I would prefer a brief flashback like the way Etrigan's origin was handled in A Knight of Shadows, instead we got a lot of exposition that slowed things down big time (I don't necessarily want to see battle scene after battle scene but this episode was slow). Turning Rex into a businessman also made his origin a bit more implasible, even though I do like the story concept of using a metahuman as a source of safe and cheap labor. I do wish that writers would explore that idea and the larger implications involved but I doubt we would see that in a show like Justice League.

As for the character designs, I love them. They were faithful to Metamorpho and his cast as envisioned by Ramona Fradon in the 1960's. Everyone looked the way they were supposed to look. Most posters who are familiar with Metamorpho know him from either Justice League Europe or Batman and the Outsiders where he is drawn in the more modern art style.

I'm still looking forward to part two.

Mister Intensity

JusticeLeagueLegion

10-05-2002, 10:22 AM

I'm surprised so many people have found the episode to be weak...I thought it was great...I thought it was like an old episode of Superman or Batman: The Animated Series.

BatChick

10-05-2002, 10:41 AM

As someone who knows nothing about Metamorpho or his backgrounf I found this to be a very well written ep. They handled his origin very well. The action was also very good. I gave it four stars. But like I said I know nothing about the character.

In regards to Stagg I thought he look like Ra's Al Ghul. It's the hair and eyes I think. As for Java he reminded me of Jaws from the Bond movies.

I also have to agree we need to get to know Flash and Hawkgirl better. Here's hoping we'll get to as the season progresses.

BeastBoyWonder

10-05-2002, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by DCU Bat
Lemme get this Straight. You think BB is in coniuinty and JL is an Elseworld? (slaps his forehead.) Caramba!!

LOL, yup. While I enjoyed part 1, overall JL just seems kind of out of place when compared to the other shows.

Anyway, as far as Hawkgirl/GL romance is concerned, I don't think they'll have any romantic involvement with each other any time soon. While I am male, my best friend is female, and their interactions resemble our friendship than they do flirtation or a relationship.

Batman's Biggest Fan

10-05-2002, 04:40 PM

^I would believe Batman Beyond's an alternate future. If there is a team-up between JL and JLU. It should be like Legdns how they travel to an alternate reality.

JTurner954

10-05-2002, 04:54 PM

Well, it is out of place in the sense that it doesn't focus on one character like the other shows do. That's why I like this show, so many new characters I originally knew nothing about.

Batman's Biggest Fan

10-05-2002, 06:08 PM

Did you guys notice the possible Lois Lane cameo?

Ra's Al Ghul

10-05-2002, 07:12 PM

Well, I liked it as a story driven ep, but in relation to other episodes it was just middle of the pack. However, just because I nit-pick everything I watch, I'll throw out some of the questions I was asking last night (barring some that have already been mentioned):

Why, when GL was attempting to stop the train, was he "pulling" as if he were pulling a rope? It's not HIS strength that was going to stop the train - it was the ring's. He could have been eating a doughnut and the ring would have been just as effective.

Where does it say that Hawkgirl is invulnerable? She takes a direct hit from a missle and it never breaks the skin?

Why include Supes and MM only to have then disapear when trouble shows up?

And most importantly, where did the new clothes come from after the "accident"? I can just hear Rex now - "What happened? Now I'm a hidious freak AND I'm wearing a clown suit?" If there was something built into the program which gave the subject of the experiment some sort of apperance of being dressed, why "dress" him like THAT?

Again, these are not really complaints, I do this to eps I love and series I never miss. It's just an observation that EVERY script has a certain amount of these "bloopers"

Anarky

10-05-2002, 07:13 PM

question: why did Batman go out of his way to inspect the train wreck?
was he in town? did GL call him to investigate?
does he take it upon himself to follow-up on the exploits of his fellow-leaguers?

slackermonkey

10-05-2002, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by Ra's Al Ghul
Why, when GL was attempting to stop the train, was he "pulling" as if he were pulling a rope? It's not HIS strength that was going to stop the train - it was the ring's. He could have been eating a doughnut and the ring would have been just as effective.

yes, his physical strength has nothing to do with it, but neither does the ring. it's the strength of his willpower. the way i saw it, he wasn't really "pulling", he was just concentrating really hard because i'm sure it takes a lot of willpower to stop a runaway train like that.

Originally posted by Ra's Al Ghul
Where does it say that Hawkgirl is invulnerable? She takes a direct hit from a missle and it never breaks the skin?

she was striking at it with her mace before it exploded, so it looked to me like it was the mace that took the direct hit. the aftermath of the explosion was probably still enough to knock her down, though.

it was stated somewhere that her skeleton is more durable that humans' (much like a real hawk's) but she's not invulnerable... she can just take more punishment than an ordinary man could.

Originally posted by Ra's Al Ghul
And most importantly, where did the new clothes come from after the "accident"? I can just hear Rex now - "What happened? Now I'm a hidious freak AND I'm wearing a clown suit?" If there was something built into the program which gave the subject of the experiment some sort of apperance of being dressed, why "dress" him like THAT?

those aren't his clothes, that's how his skin actually looks now. it's taken on new compounds and elements. unless you're talking about his little black undies with the blue stripe, in which case i have no idea. they seem to be a requirement for superheroes.

superprime

10-05-2002, 09:15 PM

Pretty good. not quite what I expected but still pretty good. It was nice to get some more info on John's past and to see the sensitive Hawkgirl again(seen previously in Legends) and Metamorpho was pretty cool. His morphs were pretty well done and looked cool. I have to agree with everyone that said Simon has a creepy relationship with Sapphier(sp). All in all a nice introduction to Metamorpho and has me looking forward to part 2.

JusticeLeagueLegion

10-05-2002, 09:33 PM

Originally posted by Batman's Biggest Fan
Did you guys notice the possible Lois Lane cameo?

Lois Lane? No I didn't...I'll have to go back and check.

Russkafin

10-05-2002, 10:29 PM

My favorite part: After the truck hits Metamorpho and he goes splat, the guy who takes out his cell phone and goes, "Dude!"

DerekPowers

10-05-2002, 10:55 PM

i enjoyed this episode because i liked how they flesshed out an origin story and tried to help us get to know Rex's character and life.

BUT i thought the episode had some problems, and they are...

1. is it just me or was metamorpho too easily fooled by stagg w/ those photos? and, was it stagg's intention all along to frame GL?? did he even know they were friends before the accident? and what if saphire didnt embrace gl, stagg would have nothing to frame gl with. it just didnt seem to make much sense to me.

2. why oh why didnt they make metamorpho's design better? i mean, come one, what the hell was that, bruce timm should have tweaked that design to make it better cause it was awefull if you ask me.

3. Am i the only one who's sick of everything taking place in Metropolis?? either that or theyre too lazy to design cop cars from a different city.

other than those complaints i liked this ep. i liked the animation, it was very smooth. the animation on JL just keeps improving, which makes me happy.

one question for any of you GL fans out there. i know Star Saphire has some connection to GL, perhaps Kyle Rayner. She was his girl friend or something, right? is this Saphire character some version of that star saphire role? and was this metamorpho story from the comics? if so, who was the GL and how did the story change in JL? thanks.

Anarky

10-05-2002, 11:21 PM

Originally posted by Batman's Biggest Fan
Did you guys notice the possible Lois Lane cameo?

a female reporter w/ black hair does not necessarily imply Lois was on the scene. Besides, her back was to the camera and the hairstyle was not hers.

we're not even certain what city this story takes place.
those Metropolis PD squad cars are everwhere now.
I think there's one casing my neighbor as I speak. (:-o

slackermonkey

10-05-2002, 11:50 PM

Originally posted by DerekPowers
i know Star Saphire has some connection to GL, perhaps Kyle Rayner. She was his girl friend or something, right? is this Saphire character some version of that star saphire role?

no, sapphire stagg and star sapphire are two different characters. sapphire stagg is rex mason/metamorpho's fiancee, and star sapphire (a.k.a. carol ferris) is just a gl villain from the hal jordan days. the connection you may be thinking of is that she killed john stewart's girlfriend awhile back in the comics.

Originally posted by DerekPowers
and was this metamorpho story from the comics? if so, who was the GL and how did the story change in JL?

sort of. the original metamorpho origin didn't involve gl or the league at all.

i'm going from memory here, so it may not be entirely accurate, but his original comics origin was that he was originally an adventurer/explorer (kinda like indiana jones) who i believe was still employed by simon stagg. stagg wanted him to get ahold of some sort of orb and when rex found it, it altered his molecular structure and turned him into metamorpho.

that's probably not entirely right, but it was something along those lines.

Mr. Obsession

10-06-2002, 01:41 AM

I can see why a lot of people are comparing Metamorpho's origin to Clayface's, but it really reminded me more of Two-Face's. Especially the hospital scene.

I also loved the whole 50's vibe the episode had, especially the character designs for the new characters.

That and we got confirmation that John was actually in the military.

Arde

10-06-2002, 02:24 AM

I never find any interest in Metamorpho, so this ep just didn't do it for me. I think Metamorpho's costume has always been too cartoonish (yes, I know many superheroes also have corny unbelievable costumes, but this guy is costumed like an ice cream), and this ep doesn't do anything to change that view.

I also agree that the conflict between GL and Metamorphoso about Sapphire seems too forced by the writers.
The only thing that interest me to watch this ep is how the writers actually show Metamorpho's origin.
Not a really bad ep but we've had better eps than this.

2.5/5 for me.

Anarky

10-06-2002, 01:11 PM

people keep mistaking his appearance for a costume
IT'S NOT A COSTUME!!!
That's actually his skin now. He IS METAMORPHO.
Much like Clayface (BTAS/TNBA) isn't a costume.

When he went splat it reminded me of RoboCop when that guy got splattered too.

anyway, back on topic: NO COSTUME, THAT'S SKIN AND BODY.

DerekPowers

10-06-2002, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by Anarky
people keep mistaking his appearance for a costume
IT'S NOT A COSTUME!!!
That's actually his skin now. He IS METAMORPHO.
Much like Clayface (BTAS/TNBA) isn't a costume.

When he went splat it reminded me of RoboCop when that guy got splattered too.

anyway, back on topic: NO COSTUME, THAT'S SKIN AND BODY.

hey, whatever it is, skin or costume, it still sucks. his character design is just bad, its not easy on the eyes. it doesnt look cool. its not meanacing. hes this multicolored dude in underwear. youd really think the creative team that redesigned supergirl, parasite, brainiac, metallo, and a host of other badly designed characters would have done the same for metamophos, but i suppose they dont put in as much interest in JL, and im basing that assumption on the quality of the show compared to the others. thats just my opinion though. peace.

Anarky

10-06-2002, 01:45 PM

i suppose they could've re-designed the character but they chose to stick to the original mold. Besides, the fact that he looks truly horrible is probably what's driving his anger....that combined w/ his feelings of betrayal. Wouldn't you be angry if you had pink-brown-orange skin???

So far, every metamophosis has been met w/ rage:

1. Harvey Dent/Two-Face
2. Matt Hagen/Clayface
3. John Corben/Metallo
4. Leslie Lewis/Livewire

...well except for Rudy Jones/Parasite. He didn't seem to mind his transformation once he realized he could absorb energy from the most powerful of beings. I still want an ep where Parasite steals powers from J'Onn.

ps: Mr. Stagg has NO fashiopn sense. Bright blue suit. Red bow tie??? Yikes! He had a Colonel Sanders/Uncle Sam thing going on there.

anyway, looking forward to part and Nov 9th, premier of A Savage Time.

MILatino

10-06-2002, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by Batman's Biggest Fan
it's Friday, meaning another Jl episode is apon us. With the premiere of Metamorphosis!Again, an episode that shows us the former life of John Stewart. I really wish they would indulge us more on that instead of immediately going into his superhero present. For example, he's having a nice talk with his pal in the apartment and John showed up in this costume. It would've been more human to show up in street garb like we saw at the begining of "In Blackest Night" and then just walk out the door when he left. Must he do everything with that ring?

The dialog was good and the premis was OK for what it was, but must there always be the creation of another superbeing? It's like Smallville's "freak of the week" concept. Give it a rest. And this guy's not even unique. For that, why not a guest appearance by Clayface?

But for what it was, four stars from me. It still was not bad at all because despite some of the writer's choices for action or characterization, usually a great deal of the dialog isn't bad. :)

SimonMoon5

10-06-2002, 03:05 PM

Originally posted by SageHare6
Though I can't help flashing back to "Feat of Clay" at times. Can't say I know much about Metamorpho, but for any hardcore DC fans out there, "how true is the animated Metamorpho to the comic version?" The wood chips, the fire, each limb a different color... I can't help but feel that Metamorpho looks rather comical.

Only the visuals (each limb a different color) are true to the comics version. I think the fire and wood chips were attempts to justify the limbs each being a different color, but I always thought that one of his legs was somewhat wood-like, so wood chips (if used at all) should come from there, etc.

In the comics, Metamorpho does not shoot fire from his arm, nor does he fire wood chips. Likewise, turning into a blob of no particular substance is not one of his usual habits. I'm not saying that the comics version couldn't do any of those things, but the comics Metamorpho has a substantially different style. In the comics, the one aspect of Metamorpho's power which is emphasized is his ability to change into different elements. In fact, he is usually called, "Metamorpho, the Element Man". Thus, he would often have to figure out what element would be best to use in any different situation, and would often have to rely on Simon Stagg (surprise! In the comics he's not quite so directly a bad guy) for advice.

For example, J'onn's trick in "A Knight Of Shadows part Two" of turning into a metal statue would be appropriate for the comics version of Metamorpho (and not for the comics version of J'onn).

Classic stunts typically performed by Metamorpho in the comics include changing into a weird shape composed of a particular element (or not changing his shape, just his element, such as when he turned into gold in order to beat up Green Lantern Guy Gardner), changing just his arm into a weapon (like a giant hammer) of some particular element (which could possibly justify a flaming arm if he changed it into sodium or something, I suppose), changing into a gas and floating around (much like he did in the cartoon, including having his head floating around among the gas), or other similar stunts. For example, in his first real teamup with the Justice League (not counting the issue where he decides not to join), he turns into a cobalt tank and fires missiles (using his "spare atoms") which contain sleep gas, whose chemical formula is given to him by the Golden Age Sandman.

In short, the main thing to know about the comics version of Metamorpho is elements, elements, and more elements. And of course, the cartoon got this aspect of Metamorpho all wrong. Instead, he comes off as a cheap Clayface knockoff (which I had heard would be the case, but waited until I could see it for myself to comment on).

And the relationship with Simon Stagg... Well, it lacks all the fun of the comics version. In the comics version, Simon Stagg is not so out-and-out villainous. He's a rat, but he's not without his good qualities either. In the comics, Rex Mason stumbled upon the "Orb of Ra" which transformed him into Metamorpho. Simon Stagg then took advantage of this situation, claiming that he (Simon) would be looking for a cure, while Rex served as his adventurer for hire. Behind the scenes however, Simon had no intention of curing Rex, since then he'd lose the services of the super-powered Metamorpho. So, he was subtly evil, not out and out evil as in the cartoon.

And, of course, in the comics, neither Rex nor John Stewart are military men, nor do they have any special connection. In fact, of all the Justice Leaguers, Rex has the closest relationship with Batman, and that was true even before Rex joined Batman and the Outsiders. Rex was one of the most common characters for Batman to team up with in the Brave and the Bold ongoing series(which was *not* a vehicle for Green Lantern and the Flash!)

And as for Java... well, I'll have to wait until the next episode to see if they mention his comics origin.

metaphysician

10-06-2002, 03:16 PM

"Freak of the Week" would be a legitimate complaint, except for the fact that, on the whole, JL hasn't followed that mold. Most of the characters that show up are new only in the sense that they hadn't previously appeared.

warmachine04

10-06-2002, 05:51 PM

Many people have judge rather heavily on this recent episode. It is a rather good episode. Overall :) :) :) 1/2 / 5 :)

Personal points"
(+) Metamorpho appearance and use of his powers during his fight against GL.
(+) The focus on John Stewart about his life prior GL corp and his decision of joining the corp.
(+) GL slices the bankrobbers' truck and captures the theives.

(-) Hawkgirl stops a rocket with mace. Remminded me too much of "WarWorld" episode. How tough are the people of Thanagar really are?
(-) The voice of Sapphire sounded too young for the character.

Aberration

10-06-2002, 08:13 PM

So far, every metamophosis has been met w/ rage:

What about the Creeper? (forgot his civilian ID, and am too busy to look it up at the moment)

Calico

10-06-2002, 08:40 PM

I had to watch it again tonight just to remind myself how much I didn't like it. Bleu and rD came up with most of the nitpicks, but I wanted to add my 2 cents.

* It really, really bothered me to see Rex flirt with that woman on the train now that I know he was engaged.

* How did John Stewart know Rex had been in first class, he didn't see him until after the passengers had disembarked.

* Sapphire was just a little too friendly with her fiance's old friend, and how many women are comfortable parading around in nothing but a towel in front of a total stranger? :p

* Are rocket-launchers standard issue to Metropolis PD these days?

* Stark was way too creepy about his daughter. Did anyone else notice that before he rang her doorbell he smoothed his hair back like a nervous suitor. Eww!

* Yeah, Hawkgirl can counter a planet-killing blast with no problem, but a simple rocket knocks her back into a wall?

* Batman showing up at the scene of the train wreck does not make any sense. There were no outward signs that something was amiss. Trains crash all the time.

* The truck-stalled-on-the-train-tracks cliche :rolleyes:

** 1/2

BeastBoyWonder

10-06-2002, 08:42 PM

Originally posted by Aberration
What about the Creeper? (forgot his civilian ID, and am too busy to look it up at the moment)

He was Jack Ryder, the super-serious news reporter that we saw a lot in TNBA. That's what made the contrast between he and the Creeper so cool. But yeah, he looked into a reflection of himself and freaked.

JohnStewart-GL

10-06-2002, 08:44 PM

Originally posted by Calico

* Batman showing up at the scene of the train wreck does not make any sense. There were no outward signs that something was amiss. Trains crash all the time.

* The truck-stalled-on-the-train-tracks cliche :rolleyes:
** 1/2
GL asked him to investigate.

BeastBoyWonder

10-06-2002, 08:49 PM

That makes sense...although what would cause GL to become suspicious that this was something out of the ordinary? I'm sure he doesn't call Batman in every time he keeps a tragedy from occuring.

Patrick Bateman

10-06-2002, 08:59 PM

Did anyone else find it funny that when John went to have a glass of wine with Rex, he was wearing his GL costume? It just looked incredibly stupid.

SageHare6

10-06-2002, 09:44 PM

Thx SimonMoon for the excellent synopsis. :D

I just caught the rerun of Metamorpho and caught a couple of little details worth mentioning. Call it the "dramatic moments" in our 1/2 show off just before the big climax.

First off, did Simon Stagg's ape-like henchman actually get a pic of GL and Simon's daughter kissing? The first photo op that he takes upon Simon's encouragement is when they're hugging. The kiss photo took me by surprise even though the event actually happenned.

Second, there's a scene when GL has his back turned and one of the bank robbers aims a gun at his head. That moment I thought was pretty cool. But I thought it could've been a lot more dramatic had they 1.added a few more seconds as the robber, say, struggles to raise and aim his gun, or 2.let a shot ring out and the scene cuts to a triumphant Hawkgirl standing atop the beaten robber. The scene itself was pretty suspensful, IMO, but would it have been too much to go the extra step? :confused:

Thirdly, Rex's revelation and subsequent escape from the hospital could have been handled better, IMHO. For starters, why do we, the audience, see Rex before Rex sees himself as Metamorpho? This is key, b/c I think the audience experiences a greater thrill by having this ephiphany simultaneously with our "tragic" villain. Else, why not show the "reaction" of the bystanders first before showing the new Rex. IMHO, these little tidbits from our classics of old do wonders for the story.

Next up, when Rex storms through the hospital, that brief pause before the pedestrians, the TV store, and ultimately the police, seemed to destroy whatever dramatic momentum there was. Sure there was confusion, but there was too little "personal confusion" and too much "outside confusion". Part of what makes for a great villian is the whole "self discovery" of power. Rex seemed all too familiar with how his body changed and the new powers that he inherited. Here, character development could have used an extra few tens of seconds.

Lastly, the real nail in the coffin was when Metamorpho conveniently "slips" down the storm drain with his fully featured head slipping in last. Here, the whole dramatic moment is lost. Seeing the whole face go down last is a blast from the past from Plastic Man (& Son :D ). When Clayface slips away, there's something rather sinister and vile about him. With Metamorpho, I just don't know what to make of his bleach white face. :confused:

It's too bad, they didn't play up this "element" angle, SimonMoon noted in an earlier post. True, Metamorpho shows his true colors (perhaps too much :D) with his plastic, liquid and gaseous forms, but how on Earth did he learn all this, much less, control all this? Moreover, If you're a gas or a liquid, how solid can your face be? Among well designed gaseous villains (no pun intended), I think of FreonGirl from BByond. Yet with Metamorpho, something just does't click when he's in airhead mode.

Funny... but who would've thunk the WonderTwins had an orphan brother?

JMHO :wakko:

Ed Liu

10-06-2002, 10:00 PM

Howdy,

I gave this episode 4 stars, mostly because it felt like a good, Silver Age comic book. Nothing terribly deep or even terribly believable, but it succeeds or fails almost entirely on its energy and its unflagging belief in itself, no matter how looney the whole thing gets.

I kind of wished that Rex would be pulling off the kind of element tricks SimonMoon5 mentioned, but I think a lot of Rex's tricks really work better in comics (specifically, in print) than they would in animation. You can spend a lot more time, either through dialog, thought balloons, or captions explaining what exactly Rex is doing. It may be hokey for Rex to have a big dialogue balloon saying, "If I turn into SODIUM and CHORINE and mix properly, I can make sure these FRIES are SALTED PROPERLY!!"; I think it would sound infinitely worse read by an actual human being.

Yeah, Rex looked goofy, but I was actually more disappointed by his Magic Wood Chipper arm. If they revamped him much, he wouldn't be the Rex I know and love.

I walked away with a good, positive impression of this episode. However, I walked away with good, positive impressions of almost every "part 1" of JL, and have almost always ended up being disappointed by the part 2's. We'll see how this plays out next week.

I'm beginning to realize a few things about the creators of the Animated Age. BTAS was their little love letter to the Denny O'Neil/Neal Adams and Frank Miller Batman. STAS was their little love letter to the John Byrne Superman. JL is their love letter to Gardner Fox and the Silver Age.

-- Ed/Ace

BatChick

10-06-2002, 10:03 PM

I know I gave it four stars the first time I watched it. But now I don't know. There are just too many things wrong. Most of which have been noted here. I'd have to say it's a two star ep.

Frank White

10-06-2002, 11:05 PM

Hey I missed some of it, what happened up to the part where Rex told Stagg he was leaving.

Cere

10-07-2002, 11:02 AM

This was an okay episode. It will satiatie me until "Savage Time". Characters are at the forefront in this episode. People have already said much, but I'll add a few comments.

I loved the little things. GL reveals that the superhero is bare-bones ("Not much more than the clothes on my back"), criminals referring to superheros as "longjohns", the scene between GL and Hawkgirl, the ape guy (Java is his name?) always saying "sorry, boss," and a normal but completely insidious and manipulative villain.

I've never seen "Feat of Clay", but I'm sure it had a superior transformation scene. The whole look of this episode was bright and cheerful, so they couldn't really have dark transformation for Metamorpho. However, horrid colors aside, his powers look great. The element stuff would have been better, but this is fine for me.

I'm skeptical about next episode. Big blob monster?...riiight. But, hey, maybe I'll be proved wrong. 'Til next Friday.

Cere

Justice League 2000

10-07-2002, 12:34 PM

this was a great episode I give it 4 stars. I like it better than war world. ;)

James Harvey

10-11-2002, 11:16 AM

An all-new Justice League debuts tonight!

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/jl/episodes/metamorphosis/p2/01.jpg

Episode #23 - Metamorphosis Part 2
Original Airdate -October 11th, 2002

When Green Lantern's old friend is transformed into an evil mutant, Green Lantern has to reassess how he must handle this situation

Comments?

JusticeLeagueLegion

10-11-2002, 12:58 PM

I'm really looking forward to this episode tonight...I hope it's as cool as it looks on the commercials...I've always been a fan of Metamorpho...he's so cool. I'm not going to let myself forget to tape it...even if I have to write it down on my forhead backward...hopefully I'd have a mirror to remind me...but oh well, I'm not going to forget! I'll discuss and rate the episode once I've seen it.

Naraht

10-11-2002, 07:24 PM

Yay for Dwayne McDuffie! (Hi Dwayne!)

Nice to see J'onn hit with fire & go down, that sequence at the begining was very cool...

Nice to see the leaguers useing alternative attacks, GL Bullet Blasts, J'onn's dragon mode, Hawk Girl's smash stuff with her mace...er...n/m that last one.

And the ending wasn't too bad. Predicible, but good..

^_^

BeastBoyWonder

10-11-2002, 07:27 PM

Meh...it was a "fair" episode, not too spectacular or interesting but still somewhat diverting.

JLU Dude

10-11-2002, 07:29 PM

It was nice to see Superman be more offensive. Though, is it just me, or did Superman seems a little more powerful in the scene where his hand thrusts pushed Rex into a wall? I don't recall him doing that in his own cartoon. Over all 5 out of 5.

JusticeLeagueLegion

10-11-2002, 07:31 PM

Wow!! I think this was probably the best episode of Justice League yet!! It was sooo auesome...I thought that Metamorpho was really going to die at the end there at first, because after all, he does die in the comics. Glad he didn't though. Definitly I'll give this episode five stars...this had an incredible plot, the action scenes were auesome, when Metamorpho battled Stagg's mutant creation on that building, that scene was soooo auesome!! I'll never forget this episode, it was the best of the first season in my opinion. It reminded me of a Batman or Superman episode...it was nice...and I'm glad that the villain was not some supervillain for a change...it's true, there was a mutant creation, but the real bad guy was Simon Stagg, who was just a regular bad guy! Good job, Bruce Timm and Co.!

JohnStewart-GL

10-11-2002, 07:35 PM

**** 1/2 stars
I found this ep to be quite good. this part had all of the action in it. Superman was quite powerful in this one. I liked Rex and i hope he returns in season2.

JTurner954

10-11-2002, 07:36 PM

Good episode. I have the feeling that Superman fans will be pleased with his performance here. Remember that S:TAS episode with that giant creature in space that was trapped to that asteroid?? Well, this JL episode is better. I'm not a fan of "giant creatures detroying the city" kind of stories, but I liked this one although I found it weird that the old guy was able to merge with it.

Anyway, I gave it 4 stars. I liked this episode more than Part 1. If they release another JL DVD, I promise to buy it and the one that's currently out.

SageHare6

10-11-2002, 07:36 PM

That was monster movie awesome! :D

Wow, just when I thought this arc was a lost cause, the JL crew throws out this wonderful second parter. Thx to SimonMoon for the synopsis on Metamorpho. w/o it, I wouldn't have gotten that end bit with Metamorpho's molecule manipulation. I also like how Batman's turning into the team's very own forensic scientist, scribbling out formulas on a chalkboard like some mad chemist. IMO, Supes was good in this ep too. He actually flexed his muscle (for once!!!) on two counts, one with his fight against Metamorpho, the other against the monster.

But how is that Metamorpho knew the atomic structure of Kryptonite? The green glow kinda suggested that it was Kryptonite he was making but I'm not entirely sure.

Anyways, the whole reconciliation bit was great. I wonder if this means we'll be seeing Metamorpho again as a JL buddy? Such gushingly goody good feelings at the end just leave you wanting more. And as for the end, do I sense some romance btw HG and GL? After WarWorld and then this, I'm starting to think that maybe some jungle fever's in the air.

A larger than life enemy and great monster movie madness, I give this ep 4 1/2 stars.

:wakko:

witness

10-11-2002, 08:01 PM

While the different use of powers (J'onn, Metamorpho) and Superman actually being "super" for once was a good thing, there was a definite cheesy factor to this episode.

You know it's really bad when not only do they make stupid references to the old King Kong movies, but Metamorpho actually has to say such a moronic line... "What I wouldn't give for a couple of biplanes right now." Very sad. Very sad indeed.

I guess it's fine that others enjoyed it, but it was just silly to me. Two stars from me.

Divv

10-11-2002, 08:05 PM

The reactions I'm seeing here are quite surprising! Almost everyone who watched the non-US premiere found this episode to be shockingly bad, funny how one man's meat can be another's poison. Well if you thought this was good just wait for 'The Savage Time'!

JusticeLeagueLegion

10-11-2002, 08:41 PM

I think that everyone who liked "The Call" better then any of the Justice League episodes might even like this one better then "The Call." It was an auesome episode...and I still just can't stress that enough...I know I said that already...and more than once too, but I just thought it was that cool...really, really, really, cool!

Joker85

10-11-2002, 09:10 PM

Well, I'm in the minority here. I liked the first part,but this one ruined it for me. I just thought the whole episode was kinda dumb. The big green thing climbing the building with a screaming blonde in his fist was a bad reference to King Kong. And then there was Metamorpho trying to kill JL, then deciding they were friends again. Then there was the battle at the beginning which was pretty much another, beat the living crap out of everyone in JL scene. And then the dialogue...well it was bad and lame. Especially Sapphire's and Metamorpho's! And what could have been a good tragic ending...was ruined completely. I just really overall thought this was lame and dumb and definitely a drop from part 1. The big green monster was just going over the line to me I guess. The only saving grace for this episode in my opinion were the Hawkgirl scenes and the fact that Batman was in it.

Anarky

10-11-2002, 09:39 PM

at first i was leery about the monster, but it worked for me.
and i think it was wise of them to add that "biplane" line, self-acknowledging the Kong-spoof.

this ep proved to be quite good actually. Not a 5, but I'd give it a 3.

Metamorpho is truly a force to be reckoned with. Perhaps now he'll be the sentinel of his city, living out his dream to be a hero like John....except he keeps the girl. Perhaps we'll see him again, in a team-up w/ GL & the Flash.

DarkLantern

10-11-2002, 09:48 PM

Originally posted by SageHare6

But how is that Metamorpho knew the atomic structure of Kryptonite? The green glow kinda suggested that it was Kryptonite he was making but I'm not entirely sure.

Yes, it was kryptonite, and you've mirrored one of my double takes on this episode. But I think I have an explanation.

If a high-level outfit like Stagg Enterprises has access to illegal mutagens, then it wouldn't be too far to assume SE has access to some illegal kryptonite as well. Mason may have studied the element/compound (for beneficial purposes of course) and would thus know enough about it to know how to synthesize it.

Now, if only they could explain how a lunk like Rex Mason in the comics knows enough about chemistry to do his Metamorphic stunts...

DL

Mister Intensity

10-11-2002, 10:02 PM

It was an okay episode that I would consider one of my least favorites.

I was surprised they didn't ask Metamorpho to join the League at the end. I thought that was the entire point of the episode.

Mister Intensity

Naraht

10-11-2002, 10:06 PM

I felt that much of his shapeshifting was instinctual...

the process was suppossed to make it so people wouldn't be harmed in industrial accidents...it wouldn't be very effective if you had to think ok, I need to change my molecular structure to......

Now....why couldn't he shft to a more "normal" apearance? He managed a spiky ball quite well....

Maybe it's more trouble than it's worth.

I.R Joey

10-11-2002, 11:01 PM

Eh...wasn't to hot IMO. Yeah it had some really cool fight scenes, but the writing could have used some work. I mean at some points the dialouge could have been alot better, and that King Kong refrence was kinda corny, and if you ask me they should've left Mason dead, I personally like some tragic stuff.

On the good side, again the fights and also the relationship between Mason and John. I also thought John questioning the path he took was a nice touch.

Overall about a 6/10.

Karkull

10-11-2002, 11:07 PM

It's great to see an episode that focuses more on characterization for a change. I liked Stagg and Java, plus we got an added treat with the "Chemo" mutation. And yes, the ending was cliche, but, hey, her tear altered the chemical composition of his body, so I'll let it slide. In the comics, Metamorpho (and Element Girl) are pretty tough to kill -- see her appearance in Sandman.

metaphysician

10-11-2002, 11:22 PM

I'm really trying to see what the people over seas hated in this episode. I actually liked it better than IBN and Paradise Lost.

Oh, and the K-hand?? I think that was some kind of reflexive shift, outside of Rex's control.

Liked the water-sodium explosive attack.

Brainiac

10-11-2002, 11:26 PM

I didn't really like Part 1 all that much, but this episode was much better. Not as good as the last few story arcs, it was still fun. I'm a big fan of old monster movies, especially the giant creature stomp-fest sort, so it was pretty cool seeing it here. The battle with Metamorpho in the beginning was also very well-done, as with the accompanying music. The only problem I had, was that some of the dialogue was a bit too corny, or just sounded awkward. In fact, all of them happened to be Sapphire's lines. Calling him a big lug, and an ape. I forget some of the others, but it just sounded very out of place. I actually liked Metamorpho's line about the bi-planes, despite its corniness. It was overall a fun episode, and was many steps above the previous part. 4 stars!

-Brainiac

unknown hero

10-12-2002, 12:04 AM

it was cool to see the justice league take on a freakish mutant giant. it was also a treat to see the cool powers of metamorpho in action. cool fire and transformation effects

the ending felt as if it was cut short or missing a few scenes. did they really need to show stagg wake up at the end?

redDragon

10-12-2002, 12:26 AM

I liked this ep much better than part one. Though I still have some things to pick at. My first reaction at the end of this ep was "Me Clayface/King Kong! *pounds fists against chests*" The biplane line went right over my head, and I really couldn't hear it.

There were a lot of predicatble things. For example, part of Stagg's mind getting trapped in the mound of snot, Metamorpho saving the day by becoming the needed element, and Metamorpho coming back to life.

Why didn't Metamorpho everyone about that subzero freezing machine? It worked on him so why wouldn't it work on Mr. Snot? Unless of course he didn't want them to know in case he went psycho again.

Good things: Superman got some energy back.

J'onn J'onzz as dragon. You get the picture.

Batman. Yeah, he rules.

Metamorpho going kryptonite style. That was cool.

And just wondering, who was Stagg going to use the mutagen on? Java?

Condiment King

10-12-2002, 12:35 AM

Meh, it was an average episode. I found that Metamorpho's character was very intriguing and interesting. The King Kong reference.... :rolleyes: Where are all those funny jokes from "Legends"? :D Eh, the fight scene was what kind of pulled it down for me and the nice, tidy rap up. :p

***

Dark Knight

10-12-2002, 02:14 AM

Yeah I wasn't crazy about this story arc. It entertained me but left me generally unimpressed.

There was good. I liked the action sequences, particularly in the beginning of part two. Supes shined for once. MM morphing into the dragon rocked. Hawkgirl was overall well used. And Metamorpho had some impressive stunts. The dialogue was well scripted. The animation was good as far as I could tell.

And here's my gripes. Now I'm usually the last person to start comparing JL to BTAS, I know they're different shows and I like to weigh them in thier respective genres. But let's face it this two parter had "Feat of Clay" written all over it, only all the tragedy was squeezed out. I hated Stagg. The voice actress of Sapphire was pretty bad. Stagg's consciousness merging with the monster was pointless and poorly executed. The ending was TERRIBLE! Why was metamorpho so willing to sacrifice himself when all they had to do was stall the monster long enough for Batman to synthesize that polypeptide or whatever? He said it would only take a day, it's not like the JL couldn't have bought that time. And then they make his sacrifice meaningless by having him live. AND we don't get to see what happens to the villain. Is he alive??? Dead??? Comatose??? If they'd cleaned up the ending a little better I definately would've given this a higher rating, but I'm going to have to give it an over all 2 1/2.

JLApe

10-12-2002, 04:19 AM

Superman and MM getting powered up are one of the better parts of this episode. But overall, it wasn't that good. The monster thing was silly, kinda remind me of Superfriends. (Actually, it looks very much like a retake of Superfriends in one of their "Superfriends vs. giant monster" thing.) The tragedy was completely ruined. Why can't Metamorpho 'die' in this one? Thay can always resurrect him later. Are the producers doing a chick flick story that it must have a romantic happy ending?!!

In the episode, it wasn't beauty that killed the beast. It was the writers!

Anarky

10-12-2002, 08:33 AM

Originally posted by metaphysician
I'm really trying to see what the people over seas hated in this episode. I actually liked it better than IBN and Paradise Lost.

Oh, and the K-hand?? I think that was some kind of reflexive shift, outside of Rex's control.

Liked the water-sodium explosive attack.

I agree w/ you about the kryptonite hand. He had no clue as to how that happened. He says "What's happenning to me?" with a genuine look of shock and confusion on his face. It'll take some time for Mason to fully control his new powers. But it is a neat trick that he can do that. He could be useful should Kal go on another rampage.

Batman's Biggest Fan

10-12-2002, 08:41 AM

I missed it, but I'll catach it tomorrow night

superprime

10-12-2002, 12:32 PM

Not quite as good as part one but i still liked it. The fight with Metamorpho at the beginig was amazing. J'onns morphs were so cool. Another highlight of this episode was Superman finally acting super. He was awesome against Metamorpho and faired pretty well against the monster. I happened to like that bi plane joke and the homeages to the old monster movies. My biggest complaint is that the ending left to many questions. Is Stagg back to normal? What will Rex do now? Well even though there were a few lame lines here and there and a few to many questions at the end it was still a good episode.

JusticeLeagueLegion

10-12-2002, 01:04 PM

I for one don't know why anyone is complaining. I thought that this was the perfect Justice League episode. And superprime, you really liked part one better than part two? Part one was dissapointing to me because it left us at the end and we had to wait until next week...next to nothing happened in part one but part two was a little bit more exciting. Still, I liked part one, but just not near as much as I liked part two. I thought that this was perfect...they did a great job...and his "sacrifice" wasn't actually pointless...if it really would have taken Batman a day to develop that thingy, then Sapphire could have been killed...his sacrifice was far from worthless...it was the best part of the whole episode probably...in my opinion anyway. But anyway...I thought the story was well scripted. And the fight scenes were cool...and even though some of you thought it was stupid that Metamorpho fought the JL at first, I thought it was auesome...especially when Superman fought Metamorpho...of course Metamorpho probably wouldn't have had a prayer if it wasn't for his Kryptonite hand, but still, it was a good fight scene. After all, if he didn't make Green K how could he have defeated Superman? The episode would have been a lot shorter. I for one think that this episode was great from start to finish...I couldn't complain about anything.

JTurner954

10-12-2002, 01:14 PM

I agree. Unlike the last three 30 minute episodes, this felt like a JL episode and I liked it more because of it.

Condiment King

10-12-2002, 02:14 PM

Basically, one of the only reasons I didn't like it is because it ended way too quickly. There wasn't much of anything happening in Part 1 and then in Part 2 halfway through, it was sped up, kind of like a football postgame show, running through the highlights really fast. It left too many questions and not everything was fully explained.

I'm not saying I hated it but it just reminded me too much of "Feat of Clay" and it felt like I've seen it before.

Every JL episode is good. This one just wasn't as good as the others, IMO. :D

Simpler Simon

10-12-2002, 03:49 PM

I loved this episode, for all the reasons everyone has talked about (Superman powered up, J'onns dragon morph, GL/Hawkgirl interaction, biplane joke, everything), but something really surprised me. When the Stagg monster exploded at the end, did anyone else think of 9/11? The way the monster exploded really looked like the building was being destroyed. It's not that I'm offended or anything, but I'm surprised the crew got away with that one, or didn't notice it. (I know they already changed the airplane crash to a train wreck due to 9/11)

Frank White

10-12-2002, 03:52 PM

Eh.. I don't know, for some reason this episode just doesnt do it for me. **1/2

LadyM

10-12-2002, 04:31 PM

I give it a solid four stars. :)

~LM~

JusticeLeagueLegion

10-12-2002, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by ionglkyle
Basically, one of the only reasons I didn't like it is because it ended way too quickly. There wasn't much of anything happening in Part 1 and then in Part 2 halfway through, it was sped up, kind of like a football postgame show, running through the highlights really fast. It left too many questions and not everything was fully explained.

I'm not saying I hated it but it just reminded me too much of "Feat of Clay" and it felt like I've seen it before.

Every JL episode is good. This one just wasn't as good as the others, IMO. :D

I thought it was better than all the others...It seemed like probably my favorite episode...but it's good not everyone thinks the same way I do...oh what a dull world it would be if they did.

justicefan61

10-12-2002, 05:58 PM

I liked the show very much and belongs in my top five shows of the series so far.. I think metamorphro deserves a return in a later episode. I would like to see bruce timm's version of Doom Patrol ( another classic silver age group of heroes) and maybe the Spectre . Superman and batman were well portrayed and this was really Green Lantern's story. Hawkgirl and flash need to be showcased in later episodes next season.. I give it 4 stars both part's one and two and think it's a great first season show.

SirLemming

10-12-2002, 10:55 PM

I had a lot of problems with this episode. To me, it wasn't nearly as "a step above" the past episodes as "A Knight of Shadows" was. There were good things about it, definitely. But this is one episode where I legitimately thought I could have done some things better.

The Metamorpho guy looked pretty cheesy. There was definitely something "comic book"-y about him, but that's not always good. Why would he mutate into such perfectly straight color divisions? Two-Face's mutated skin wasn't totally realistic either, but this is worse.
The giant green mutagen monster was cheesy -- and the sky is blue. They did some cool stuff with him, like when the father's face morphed around. I don't have problems with the fact that it became a giant monster, but I wish they came up with a more original, "tortured"-looking monster. And the similarities to King Kong were ridiculous. I'm aware that they joked about it, but wouldn't it have been better to just be original instead of joking about an imitation?
I honestly think it would have been better if Mason died. Particularly, I would've liked it if the leftover orange mutagen thing was sort of just twisting around, all horrified, trying to come back to life but not quite making it, and then eventually dying. It would have been so much more powerful. If they need him for other episodes, maybe they could've done something like that where it didn't necessarily die, and he gets revived in another episode. But the ending just seemed so un-impactful. After barely being "dead" at all, he's back to life (apprently just because he got lucky) and everyone's happy.

It wasn't a total failure, but it was definitely restrained by these problems. I'm not going to be all pessimistic and outraged and assume that this is a permanent step down from "A Knight of Shoadows" -- I guess this just wasn't their best day.

susan123

10-12-2002, 11:00 PM

I decided to wait before posting my reply as to comment on the whole story.

The action in Part 2 was good. Superman being more powerful was also good and I really liked where Jonn morphed into the snake.

Otherwise though, I found this story predictable and the performances unexciting.

Not the worst episode of Justice League but not the best. 3 stars for me.

Mr. Obsession

10-13-2002, 01:11 AM

Did my eyes deceive me? Was Superman actually super? :eek: That alone made the episode worthwhile. Sure he got smacked around but every time he got right back up to go at it again. :)

Other than that I've enjoyed this arc for homage to comics from the 50's, everything from the character designs to the simple plot and dialog.

If nothing else, 4 1/2 stars for putting the super back Superman.

DerekPowers

10-13-2002, 01:21 AM

Originally posted by redDragon
I liked this ep much better than part one. Though I still have some things to pick at. My first reaction at the end of this ep was "Me Clayface/King Kong! *pounds fists against chests*" The biplane line went right over my head, and I really couldn't hear it.

Why didn't Metamorpho everyone about that subzero freezing machine? It worked on him so why wouldn't it work on Mr. Snot? Unless of course he didn't want them to know in case he went psycho again.

Good things: Superman got some energy back.

J'onn J'onzz as dragon. You get the picture.

Batman. Yeah, he rules.

Metamorpho going kryptonite style. That was cool.

And just wondering, who was Stagg going to use the mutagen on? Java?

i agree. i loved the kryptonite hand, that was cool. and jonn as a dragon rocked!

i sort of had a problem w/ the whole king kong ending, that was alittle too, i dont know, predictable and corny to boot.

other than that, i actually really liked this ep, much better than part 1. but what i didnt get was why the hell didnt they freeze the monster?? all i kept thinking was, "SUPERMAN- USE YOUR ICE BREATH!!!!" he does have ice breath, right? :confused: im pretty sure he can blow hard enought to freeze something, i think weve seen it atleast once in stas. correct me if im wrong.

oh well, i suppose the writers took the easy way out again, but other than that it was cool. 3 stars for me.

Mr. Obsession

10-13-2002, 01:36 AM

Originally posted by DerekPowers
all i kept thinking was, "SUPERMAN- USE YOUR ICE BREATH!!!!" he does have ice breath, right? :confused: im pretty sure he can blow hard enought to freeze something, i think weve seen it atleast once in stas. correct me if im wrong.You know, I don't think the animated Supes has "ice breath". Or at least if he has, he's never used it. In fact I'm trying to remember if he ever some sort of super breath in his show. I remember in "Obsession" he put out a fire by clapping his hands together to create the wind to do so, and I forget how he put out the restaurant fire in "Where There's Smoke".

Knight

10-13-2002, 04:16 AM

The animated Supes has never used any ice breathe ability. The post-crisis Supes didnt even have the power until a few years ago.

slackermonkey

10-13-2002, 12:09 PM

He used ice breath in Part 1 of "In Blackest Night"... or was that just super-breath?

Dr. J

10-13-2002, 12:34 PM

I give this episode 3 out of 5

It was good, but certainly not spectacular. There were a few plotholes (Metamorpho turning into kryptonite, not trying to freeze the monster, Hawkgirls'mace landing in the street, yet she gets up from the car holding itetc.). Also, did anyone else think it was out of character for Batman to immediately ask for Metamorpho to help them, even after he tried to kill them, like what, hours ago?

Good points: Superman finally got to kick some ass. Martian Manhunter's finally begining to use his shapeshifting powers (what with turning into a dragon here and all the stuff he did in A Knight of Shadows). Y'know, J'onn's really the only one that doesn't need to be powered up, if he'd just use his shapeshifting and telepathy more efficiently.

Bleu Unicorn

10-13-2002, 01:06 PM

I honestly disliked the other half more than this. Not that I really liked this half either. It ranks slightly higher due to J'onn, whom I found quite cool in this episode. You just can't be the new uses of his powers in this and "A Knight Of Shadows." And the Kryptonite thing was cool. So, there wasn't complete bad in this episode.

The King Kong type feel of this whole episode was just lame in my opinion. It lacked creativity and honestly coming from the viewpoint of not being a King Kong, Godzilla, whathaveyou fan, I found it ten times more annoying.

The stupidity abounded yet again in this episode, and I can't ignore it. It's annoying to no end and just bothers me.

Still, anything is an improvement from last week -- 3 stars 'cause I still think it was way below par.

JusticeLeagueLegion

10-13-2002, 01:11 PM

Superman has used Superbreath in "In Blackest Night." But he's never frozen anything before...not on the animated series. I know on Lois & Clark he did a lot of that freezing stuff.

Ed Liu

10-13-2002, 04:01 PM

Howdy,

Gave this one four stars. I think this story arc managed to follow through from the first part better than almost any other episode on the show (with the possible exceptions of "Legends" and "The Brave and the Bold"). Admittedly, there are holes to be found (GL really not being able to guess Rex was heading for Stagg and Stagg was heading for Sapphire), but I'm willing to let them all go 'cuz I had so much fun with the episode.

Some folks thought the King Kong references were hokey. I thought they were cool. I'm actually beginning to wonder if the astoundingly negative reaction people had to this episode is weighing in its favor in my mind.

I also thought Tom Sizemore was terrific as Metamorpho, even if his lines were hokey (actually, make that "especially since" his lines were hokey). I like him as an actor quite a bit -- here's hoping he gets more work with JL in the future.

Nobody's mentioned this yet, but Metamorpho took down the entire Justice League by himself. WW and Flash were missing, but I don't think either of them could contribute much to the fight that wasn't already provided by the others. More importantly, unless Batman totes around Mr. Freeze's gun with him, Metamorpho could do it again. Something about that is kind of ringing a little alarm in the back of my head.

There was something else, but I just pulled a muscle in my brain and forgot what it was.

-- Ed/Ace

JckOfSpds

10-13-2002, 07:40 PM

I gave this episode 4 stars as well. Liked it much more than the 1st part since it seemed less rushed and the movement of the plot seemed smoother. The action sequences were good as well, and it was nice to both see Superman more "super" and to see J'onn use his shape shifting powers in more creative ways.

I loved how Metamorpho was done, even down to the voice. I am surprised that people are shocked that Metamorpho could take on the Justice League so well - he was always one of its most powerful members. And bear in mind that Metamorpho can analyze substances he comes in contact with on an atomic level (he did that once in an old issue of Batman & the Outsiders), so his coming into contact with Superman and forming a Kryptonite hand makes sense.

I hope they bring him back again for another episode since he would make for a good team-up time episode.

Terminatah

10-13-2002, 07:45 PM

I liked this episode much more than Part 1. More creative JL fighting, less stupid villain charicatures. I suppose when viewed as a full hour, it's not so clunky. I liked the biplane comment, but I thought it was dumb that Metamorpho came back to life in the end. It was unnecessary, and I'm no science major, but impossible as well.

I prefer when characters have a cleaner design to them. STAS' Parasite barely had any superficial details, one main body color, and he looked great. Even BTAS & TNBA's Clayface, who is a big pile of dirt, always looked cool. But this Metamorpho guy was an aesthetic nightmare. There were useless little texture marks all over him, not to mention those five default sections of his body that clashed like hell. It was really distracting. Pretty much all the new character designs in "Metamorphosis" were ridiculous.

A decent episode, I guess, but I can't think of a reason why we'd ever need to see this guy again.

-Terminatah

Batman's Biggest Fan

10-13-2002, 07:57 PM

I just saw this episode tonight and I must say I was a little disappointed. Batman didn't realyl have a big role. Superman continued to get kicked around and Metamorpho's sacrifice needed a little more emotion. It would have been nice if they thought he died and then he returned in season 2. And that scene with that Stagg monster carring Sapphire up the building was too much of a Godzilla rip-off.

DerekPowers

10-13-2002, 08:03 PM

Condiment King

10-13-2002, 08:12 PM

did anyone think it was at all strange that batman was so willing to let metamorpho sacrafice himself? im guessing he heard GLs comments to metamorpho about not sacraficing himself since they were talking through intercoms at the same time, so??? it wasnt too big a deal, but it seemed a bit odd. it seems batman would be the last person to want anyone to have to die.

Yeah, I know! And when Batman said, "He's right. We'll need all the help we can get." It was like Batsy was pushing Metamorpho out the door. I'm used to hearing the Bat lecturing Robin and Nightwing to not take unnecessary risks...

Viper

10-13-2002, 08:16 PM

All I can say about this and Part 1: I LOVED IT!!!! :D IMO, I felt this was one of the best eps ever! It was like something out of Smallville, well close anyway.

Alph

10-13-2002, 08:53 PM

Metamorpho was awsome.The way he took down the league.But why in the heck didn't they ask him to join?He would have been a PERFECT member.

Although I don't think he'd be able to take down the league a second time.They know his powers now,and wouldn't rush in like they did before.

And the teardrop causing Metamorpho to come back was cliche,but it actually could make a little sense,if you think of how it could have changed the chemical structure or something.Like someone earlier said.

Batman's Biggest Fan

10-13-2002, 09:02 PM

^Dude are you the same Alph from VGF Forums?

MILatino

10-13-2002, 10:08 PM

I gave it **½ only because of Green Kong. The whole premis was silly. I would have much prefered a storyline more akin to:

Metamorpho vows to get revenge on Stagg. The JL races to find Stagg before Meamorpho does. A preliminary battle is lost by the JL only because Metamorpho gets away after failing to get Stagg. Later, Stagg finds him only to be twarted by the JL who save Metamorpho, and he is grateful. Or something akin to this. This is much more realistic.

Brownie points: Superman is SUPER! :eek:
Sapphire does something I've been dying to do with some of the villains and heroes on this show: SLAP! "Stop shooting first and asking questions later. Act like an adult and talk to me first before you go blasting people!" :mad:
Using an apparent affair to get Metamorpho angry. That's more adult than I thought WB would get into. Bravo.

Barb Gordon

10-13-2002, 10:27 PM

Gotta love repeats of eps, hehe, because I finally saw it for the first time tonight. It was a good part two of the whole episode. By far not one of my favorite, but I enjoyed watching. I thought it was great the way they showed Batman figuring out the formula, he's not the greatest detective for nothing! It seemed one of the campier storylines at best, but I really loved the Sapphire character, especially when she was crying. It wasn't lame, or cheesy, it was such a great animated performance. Why wasn't Flash in the episode? It seems they love having at least one hero missing from each episode.

~Barb

JusticeLeagueLegion

10-13-2002, 11:10 PM

Originally posted by Terminatah
I liked this episode much more than Part 1. More creative JL fighting, less stupid villain charicatures. I suppose when viewed as a full hour, it's not so clunky. I liked the biplane comment, but I thought it was dumb that Metamorpho came back to life in the end. It was unnecessary, and I'm no science major, but impossible as well.

I prefer when characters have a cleaner design to them. STAS' Parasite barely had any superficial details, one main body color, and he looked great. Even BTAS & TNBA's Clayface, who is a big pile of dirt, always looked cool. But this Metamorpho guy was an aesthetic nightmare. There were useless little texture marks all over him, not to mention those five default sections of his body that clashed like hell. It was really distracting. Pretty much all the new character designs in "Metamorphosis" were ridiculous.

A decent episode, I guess, but I can't think of a reason why we'd ever need to see this guy again.

-Terminatah

I have to dissagree completly...his design looked exactly like he did in the comics...except that he was in animated style...I'd love to see him come back.

Cere

10-14-2002, 10:51 AM

I was amazed by this episode. It had two incredible fight scenes, with some very nice characterization thrown in for good measure.

I cannot stress this enough: the fights were awesome! The first fight: Superman has regained his credibility in my mind. He whupped Metamorpho (until he brought out the kryptonite, which was reasonable). J'onn's powers were amazing! Everything was great. Oh, and Metamorpho didn't actually beat the JL; he ran away after GL used the power ring on him.

The scene between Metamorpho and Sapphire was excellent. Sapphire language ("I love you, you big lug.") was great and brought impact to what she was saying. Also, does Metamorpho have a penchant for breaking mirrors or what?

More great plot stuff. Metamorpho goes after Stagg, hits the right nerve ("I'll never let you touch her!") and gets frozen. Small nitpick, if the people transporting didn't know Metamorpho was in there, why did they have guns?

I was skeptical about having a giant monster, but it worked all right and I love the added touch of Stagg's base personality being implanted in the monster. That gave it the extra twist.

The monster fight: outstanding. I can't remember all the nice little touches; I'll have to watch it again five more times. The monster walking through a bridge, the way it distorted when somebody hit it. I loved how things broke/impacted when a superhero was smashed into it. Superman stays respectable, since he did his best against the monster (even used his heat vision once) but it reasonably wasn't enough. Also good was the interaction going on between GL and Metamorpho during the fight. I also enjoyed the King Kong references.

I have only a couple problems. One was the way bullets hit the monster. I wanted to see them absorbed or something, not just little flashes. Also, the monster is powerful enough to burst GL's shield? I don't like that.

The defeat was predictable, since after all, Metamorpho's the guest hero so we have to have him defeat the villain. I loved how Stagg felt the pain the monster was going through, very nice touch. The tension was great; did he die or didn't he? I wasn't sure for a minute. It was cheesy that tears brought him back, but his returning line was great ("Don't want to do that again.").

I didn't like the little scene between GL and Hawkgirl. Something about it seemed wrong. We see Metamorpho and Sapphire, then GL and Hawkgirl...hmm, are they implying something? However, it just didn't seem like a good ending line.

I must say, I love Metamorpho. His voice was great, I don't mind the colors any more, and his powers were amazing. We only saw a pitiful peek of them in the commercials; he dazzled me during the show. I would love to see him come back next season.

Finally, I must remark that visually the show was stunning. The fights looked amazing. I loved the morphing effects, of Metamorpho and the monster. My favorite effect by far was the smoke when the guys were shooting the van. That was such a nice touch. This episode had eye candy galore.

Well, that's the last new episode for a while. November 9th brings "The Savage Time", which I greatly anticipate due to all the good stuff I've heard about it. Until then, "Metamorphosis" was very satisfying. The arc receives 4 stars from me.

Cere

SageHare6

10-14-2002, 01:35 PM

Speaking of that ending line...

What exactly does GL mean by his reply after HG says something to the effect of, "still dreaming of the road not taken?" I can't tell if GL is wishing that he too had fame and a girlfriend or that he's pretty cool about his own life.

Stylistically, I think it's great how the character designers are using subtle stylistic means with new characters. The added pen lines to the face and eyes of Metamorpho and Stagg was a fresh change. But what bothered me most about Metamorpho was his glaring white head appended to whatever form he took. It just reminded me too much of plasticman. Also, I'll note that the scale marks and squigglies across Metamorpho just didn't do it for me. Here, IMO, I can't say that it pays to be totally faithful to the comic rendition of the character. I think when put to animation, characters ought to be naturally designed to take adv of the new medium. On this note, I think a textured medium might have worked better for Metamorpho where u get a sense of consistency across each section of him.

OK, so what's the story with MM? In dragon form, if he gets cut, how come he's not hurt?
:confused:
And HG, IMO is turning into Superman lite, aka, Supergirl. Everything she can do (fly, catch people, punch, fight), Superman can do better absent the mace. In this ep, I don't understand what the purpose of HG is. She is overshadowed by her cohorts who can also fly. And even there, I'm not sure HG is the fastest flyer among them.

:wakko:

Cripnkim

10-14-2002, 02:11 PM

Like most of the JL Episodes, it is part #2 that brings everything together. I cannot judge part 1 until part 2 comes on.

I agree with other posters in that the dialogue at the end could have been better. GL musing about the road not traveled was good. It seems that Hawk Girl and GL have a good chemistry as "buddies" but not a love connection.

The main thing on this episode was the action...this one had the best action scenes since Secret Origins. There were three really good butt-kicking sequences. Am looking forward to Season 2.

Terminatah

10-14-2002, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by JusticeLeagueLegion
I have to dissagree completly...his design looked exactly like he did in the comics...except that he was in animated style...I'd love to see him come back. True, so it wasn't necessarily a "new" design in that respect, but it was technically new to the series. I felt it didn't fit in with Timm's detail-free style. All the characters introduced in this episode seemed unrealistic and out of place.

Originally posted by SageHare6
And HG, IMO is turning into Superman lite, aka, Supergirl. Everything she can do (fly, catch people, punch, fight), Superman can do better absent the mace. In this ep, I don't understand what the purpose of HG is. She is overshadowed by her cohorts who can also fly. And even there, I'm not sure HG is the fastest flyer among them.

:wakko: Aside from all the "Superman lite" powers, I think she is also meant to have "Batman lite" detective skills. This is in addition to "Wonder Woman lite" beauty, "Flash lite" wit, a "Green Lantern lite" weapon, and a "J'onn J'onzz lite" pathetic existence.

;)

-Terminatah

Justice League 2000

10-14-2002, 05:27 PM

this was a great episode. I love it so much. :) here are the parts of this episode I like

1. batman figure out the formula on the board.

2. J"onn turn in to a dragon

3. hawkgirl threw her mace at the green monster

in the end stagg is still alive and rex still has his girlfriend saphhire. :)

JusticeLeagueLegion

10-14-2002, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by SageHare6
Speaking of that ending line...

What exactly does GL mean by his reply after HG says something to the effect of, "still dreaming of the road not taken?" I can't tell if GL is wishing that he too had fame and a girlfriend or that he's pretty cool about his own life.

Now that you mention that...I'm not sure what exactly that was all about...who knows...?

Originally posted by Terminatah
True, so it wasn't necessarily a "new" design in that respect, but it was technically new to the series. I felt it didn't fit in with Timm's detail-free style. All the characters introduced in this episode seemed unrealistic and out of place.

Metamorpho without that design just wouldn't be Metamorpho...that's the truth...what if Clayface just looked like Parasite except for the fact that he's brown...it would be dumb.

Terminatah

10-14-2002, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by JusticeLeagueLegion
Metamorpho without that design just wouldn't be Metamorpho...that's the truth...what if Clayface just looked like Parasite except for the fact that he's brown...it would be dumb. He could still look like Metamorpho, but with a cleaner look. I just used Parasite as an example of a great animation design.

-Terminatah

JusticeLeagueLegion

10-14-2002, 10:08 PM

Originally posted by Terminatah
He could still look like Metamorpho, but with a cleaner look. I just used Parasite as an example of a great animation design.

-Terminatah

I don't see how Metamorpho's design could possibly look any better than he already does in animated form.

Terminatah

10-15-2002, 09:26 AM

Originally posted by JusticeLeagueLegion
I don't see how Metamorpho's design could possibly look any better than he already does in animated form. See my first post in the thread.

-Terminatah

Speed Forcer

10-15-2002, 02:41 PM

I never much cared about Green Lantern
sure In Blackest Night was a good episode,but from the beginning on I always tought he was just a bossy, angry little man

but watching this episode opened my eyes.
the way GL acted so nervous around sapphire was fantastic
to me he actually seems more human.

Metamorpho himself was kinda lame though.

MattL.

10-15-2002, 05:59 PM

Could we get somebody a little less agressively uptight to do the reviews for the main page?

Oh and btw, Godzilla movies rock. Also, considering that the mosnter was very obviously Chemo who is..a big chemical filled monster, why *wouldn't* you get some Godzilla type energy out of that?

JusticeLeagueLegion

10-15-2002, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by Terminatah
See my first post in the thread.

-Terminatah

Okay, I read it again...what do you mean exactly?

Duke

10-15-2002, 07:46 PM

My favorite parts:

1) Batman was in it.
2) J'honn transformed into the dragon we see every episode in the intro, and it was hella cool! I wouldn't mind if we saw it in a future episode!
3) Green Lantern
4) Superman doing what he does best.
5) Hawkgirl's/GL's relationship.

Things I didn't like:

1) Everything else.

I'm giving this episode ** 1/2 stars. I enjoyed Secret Origins much more.

Terminatah

10-15-2002, 07:54 PM

Originally posted by JusticeLeagueLegion
Okay, I read it again...what do you mean exactly? You'll notice that all over his face and body, Metamorpho was covered with little lines to suggest different textures (wrinkles, scales, rock cracks, what have you). This is common practice for comic books, but undesirable for animation, because it's sloppier and more difficult to animate (having to duplicate all the little lines frame by frame). Then there's the aesthetic advantages of having a character who is designed with a sleek, stylish look. The movement is more fluid and interesting to watch. It's a psychologically satisfying technique.

Oh, and I don't know what Metamorpho was like in the comics, but the colors used for his body looked ridiculous together. I had a hard time summoning any feelings of intimidation at the sight of him. If I was on the JL staff, I might have attempted some similar colors that weren't as bright, and maybe divided his body in a less exact pattern. Because that's another thing, realism. We tend to get more invested in a story if we can believe it visually (to at least some degree).

-Terminatah

BatChick

10-15-2002, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by Joker85
Well, I'm in the minority here. I liked the first part,but this one ruined it for me. I just thought the whole episode was kinda dumb. The big green thing climbing the building with a screaming blonde in his fist was a bad reference to King Kong. And then there was Metamorpho trying to kill JL, then deciding they were friends again. Then there was the battle at the beginning which was pretty much another, beat the living crap out of everyone in JL scene. And then the dialogue...well it was bad and lame. Especially Sapphire's and Metamorpho's! And what could have been a good tragic ending...was ruined completely. I just really overall thought this was lame and dumb and definitely a drop from part 1. The big green monster was just going over the line to me I guess. The only saving grace for this episode in my opinion were the Hawkgirl scenes and the fact that Batman was in it.

Well said Joker85. I agree with all of it. But I'd like to add the end where she cried and her tears brought Metamorpho back was such a cliche. I mean come on couldn't they have come up with something better? Ended up giving it 1/2*

SirLemming

10-15-2002, 10:18 PM

MattL: Don't worry. Reviews aren't always gonna agree with everyone. In this case, I pretty much agree with the review, although I thought the review of "Injustice for All" was a bit too negative (I think it was that one). See my earlier post. However, I'll give them this: the episode did bring out some interesting qualities in Green Lantern's character. There was a lot of bad outweighing the good, though.

JusticeLeagueLegion

10-15-2002, 11:10 PM

Originally posted by Terminatah
You'll notice that all over his face and body, Metamorpho was covered with little lines to suggest different textures (wrinkles, scales, rock cracks, what have you). This is common practice for comic books, but undesirable for animation, because it's sloppier and more difficult to animate (having to duplicate all the little lines frame by frame). Then there's the aesthetic advantages of having a character who is designed with a sleek, stylish look. The movement is more fluid and interesting to watch. It's a psychologically satisfying technique.

Oh, and I don't know what Metamorpho was like in the comics, but the colors used for his body looked ridiculous together. I had a hard time summoning any feelings of intimidation at the sight of him. If I was on the JL staff, I might have attempted some similar colors that weren't as bright, and maybe divided his body in a less exact pattern. Because that's another thing, realism. We tend to get more invested in a story if we can believe it visually (to at least some degree).

-Terminatah

It's cool you think that way, but me, being a fan of the comics for many years, have no problem with it...I wouldn't like it any other way.

Comic Book Boy

10-18-2002, 02:40 AM

it was only a matter of time before the JL fought a giant trying to destroy the city... ;) :) ;) :) ;) :)

majin vegetoL90

10-18-2002, 05:37 PM

Metomorpho is okay I do like his powers though:)

Drachentöter

01-18-2003, 01:33 PM

Bleh. Makes War World seem like a masterpiece.

The first part plays like a bad soap opera. The love triangle wasn't half as compelling as it could have been. It didn't help that Sapphire acted like a little tramp, obviously flirting with John...in a towel, no less. When she tells Rex that she would never do something like cheat on him with Stewart, you find it hard to believe.

Stagg and Java are definitely the worst villains ever to blemish the Justice League name. Simon isn't in anyway the genius he thinks he is. He's just as much an idiot as Java, who, despite being voiced by Richard Moll, is forgettable. He doesn't have one funny line.

Metamorpho himself is a mixed bag. I can stomach the almost nauseating design, because I know they're drawing from the comics. His powers are pretty cool, whether they be true to the comics or not. In fact, the powers and the slight characterization (granted, it's again GL) save this from being a one-star.

I think they wasted two episodes which could have been used to flesh out Hawkgirl.

Drachentöter

01-18-2003, 01:54 PM

If part one plays like a bad soap opera, this plays like a B-horror movie. It's like the writers gave up when it came to the climax.

"Okay, what can we do to make Metamorpho prove himself as a good superhero?"

*pause*

"I'm burned out. Let's just make a huge, mindless monster that can be destroyed by a deux ex machina plot device. That way we'll get home in time for dinner."

*cheers*

Disappointing barely begins to describe this episode. While the first one provided a suitable, if weak, exposition, but it all turned out to be a big set-up for a plane crash. Simon Stagg becomes a big green gloop monster, echoing Godzilla, King Kong, and the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man. It reeks of cheese!

I figured there was no way to make it worse....then Metamorpho conviniently becomes the one cure-all chemical. I saw him sacrifice himself and breathed a sigh of relief. Finally, a chance at some real plot.

Nope, no plot. He comes back to life. Not only does this rob the ep of a touching scene it provides the opportunity for a RETURN. I never want to see Metamorpho NEAR JL again.

Obligatory pros:

Metamorpho vs. the Justice League, specifically MM turning into the kick-butt dragon...but I wasn't aware he could withstand being sliced.

"Not this time, Flinstone!" - Was Java really a caveman in this episode? I know he was brought from the Stone Age in the comics, but I don't know if this is the case in the series. If it is, it makes the character a bit more interesting.

Hawkgirl and GL - while I'd like to see more Flash-HG, these two work perfectly together.

Pyro

07-17-2003, 06:18 PM

I have never seen either of the Metamorphasis epidodes, but today on toonami I saw the last 15 min. of pt. 2. I can't really review it, but I wanted to say some of my thoughts.
That green gloop monster was the lamest villain I have ever seen on JL.
It felt like I was watching a Superfriends episode.
The scene with the girl crying was pathetic.
Most of the time Metamorpho used his powers he just reminded me of Plastic man or Mr. Fantastic. I haven't seen much of him in the comics but he could have done more than stretch.
Oh well, I didn't like what I saw, but I'll try to see the whole story eventually.

Hero Supreme

03-29-2006, 07:17 PM

i watched this for the first time in a long time. i liked the GL relationship with rex, and some of the league interactions and fights, but metamorpho is one ugly dude. and, why can't he fly. he was climbing the building with arm spikes, but he could also stretch and turn into a gas if he wanted. so can he really not fly?

Wonderwall

03-30-2006, 03:46 PM

I hated this episode before and I still hate it now. I hate the Metamorpho character, based mostly on the design and his crappy dialouge. I actually liked Tom Sizemore for his voice but he had some awful lines. But hes not really the problem, I could easily look past that but man so many bad characters and bad moments. The villains were the worst to ever grace the DCAU since the guy from Prophecy of Doom in BTAS...no small feat. Stagg and Java had the worst designs ever, who would feel any sort of threat from them, they looked like they should work for Dr Claw. At least Java got the season 1 Superman treatment got his comeuppance every time he was on screen. But is it just me or did anyone else get the feeling that Stagg felt more than fatherly love for his ugly big headed dauther with no ears. Anyway metamorpho beating the League was painful to watch as I can't take it seriously, also I think this was the episode where Superman got beat up the most, he didnt get one cool moment at all here. The only good thing to come from this episode was that when Metamorpho(stupid name too) made a cameo in 'Clash' he couldn't even handle the Parasite...some poetic justice in my eyes there. 1 star.

Yojimbo

03-30-2006, 08:39 PM

You have to look at the episode as a whole to understand it. The concept of duality is a major structural feature of the Timmverse stories. "Metamorphosis" is not different. We are given two stories, one external, one internal.

The external feature is Rex Mason's. It shows how a successful, good looking, flirtatious pencil pusher undergoes a metamorphosis into an ugly, super powered freak of nature. He becomes a fish out of water and has to figure out how to adapt. Instead he lashes out at the world. He comes to his senses when a fellow fish out of water reasons with him.

Which comes to the internal story. John Stewart's origin sub-plot was an inferred thing from season one to part of season two, that most fans never acknowledged much. Starting from the basic premise that Stewart was from the Marine Corps and then became a Green Lantern. Stewart has Vietnam syndrome twice over. In the Marine Corps he was overseas and most likely did some killing, innocent or not. That part of his life was for the most part ignored and transferred over to his tenure as Green Lantern. Episodes like "in blackest night" part one and "only a dream" part two capsulize his inner fears and guilt. He feels as that the things he did overseas/offplanet changed him, metamorphosized him into something alien, and when he returns to his hometown, whether for real or in dreams, he feels out of place. He can't tell his mentor his pain. In his dreams, his community fear him and speak a language he can no longer understand.

Stewart learns that a often forgotten process of metamorphosis is shedding the old. That is, doing away with his past and fully coming to terms that he is a super hero (anyone remember that line he had with J'onn on "secret society" part one after the news interview?). Stewart does succeed ultimately, between the end of "starcrossed" and "initiation", symbolized by the near hairstyle and beard.

All in all, this is a warning, don't look at the external story for the success of the entire story. It is merely the hint of the internal story, and really cool action sequences. Look at the meaning of the internal story and then look at how it compliments the external. Anyone can type a line saying this episode sucked.