I Welcome the End of DBZ...

[JohnCrichton]

First off, I love Goku and DBZ. One of my favorite shows of all time. Trunks rates up there in my top five anime characters. I love the show, I do..... but I feel it's holding Toonami back.

I'm not saying take it off the air and never show it, but I am just really looking forward to when this series ends.

I know we owe DBZ for "powering up" the block to the "super status" that it is now, but can you imagine what Toonami would look like if DBZ wasn't there? I really think they'd be trying alot harder and hooking us up with a more diverse line-up had they not become such DBZ-aholics.

That said, what do YOU think will be the next DBZ? What do you think life will be like post-DBZ for Toonami?

[Mr. Obsession]

Originally posted by JohnCrichton
First off, I love Goku and DBZ. One of my favorite shows of all time. Trunks rates up there in my top five anime characters. I love the show, I do..... but I feel it's holding Toonami back.

I'm not saying take it off the air and never show it, but I am just really looking forward to when this series ends.

I know we owe DBZ for "powering up" the block to the "super status" that it is now, but can you imagine what Toonami would look like if DBZ wasn't there? I really think they'd be trying alot harder and hooking us up with a more diverse line-up had they not become such DBZ-aholics.
Agreed. I miss the days back when DBZ was just another action show. Still the next few years are going to be interesting what with DBZ ending this year, DB growing strong, DBGT just starting up, and Toonami in search of it's next cash cow. That said, I don't believe DBZ is going to go away for awhile. I believe that after it's done and DB & GT all three shows will rotate in one time slot for awhile. Maybe never going away. But it will be back to the days when DBZ was just another action show.


That said, what do YOU think will be the next DBZ?
Why, DBGT silly. :p


What do you think life will be like post-DBZ for Toonami? Well like I said over and over above: DBZ will become just another action show and CN looks for it's next cash cow.

I suspect we'll see more shows that had a turn around time from airing in Japan to airing here, four months was might impressive. I also suspect we'll see more shows that will be broken up into "seasons". We'll probably see more Gundam hyping soon.

Still the future is going to be an interesting ride.

[William C. Maune]

[indent]Toonami needs DBZ. It brings in almost twice the ratings of anything else on Toonami and therefore boosts the ratings of the entire block as well as bringing more people to the block. Many people, including those in the internet Toonami community, initially started watching Toonami because of DBZ. Oftentimes people will then eventually check out the other quality shows thereby keeping the ratings of those shows up. I fear the day Toonami loses DB/Z/GT. The overall ratings for the block would likely drop and Toonami would lose a powerful drawing tool. Sure, Toonami would still do well with its core action-animation audience, but to be successful Toonami's ratings have to continue to grow. New viewers would still join the block, but it would be at a much slower pace. DBZ is a unique show due to it's length and as they have already run through Sailor Moon, Toonami does not have access to many more, if any shows of significant length. About the best they can hope for post-DBZ is to hit the ratings jackpot every once in awhile with a show like Gundam Wing while continuing to air quality programming with steady, but not spectactular ratings like the rest of the Toonami shows.
[indent]I'm not sure who you are refering to as being "DBZaholics", but I hope you are not refering to Williams St. Seeing as how the double DBZ hit the same time as they were forced to cut their block by an hour I would guess that order came from the higher ups just like the cut. I'm sure if they had the power to they would only air DBZ once per block. Finally, Williams St. is still trying dang hard and succeeding also. The latest two DBZ promos stand up with the best of Toonami's material. Plus, New Year's Eve-il was very will produced with a pretty good mix of shows to boot. It may still have been half DBZ, but it was a huge improvement over the all DBZ of the previous year.

[Kesh]

I have a feeling that once DB/Z/GT is done, Cartoon Network will start to focus on the 'alternate universe' Gundam series. Most of the One Year War timeline shows (0080, 0083, 8th MS Team) will be done by then (in fact, they all should), and may have gone through a series rotation (like Tenchi Muyo/Universe/In Tokyo).

By then, they can hype the Gundam franchise and keep it fresh by introducing the side stories in the UC timeline (after the One-Year War is over): Zeta Gundam, Gundam ZZ, Char's Counterattack, Gundam F-91, Victory Gundam and G Savior.

Then there's the alternate worlds: Gundam Wing (again), G Gundam, Gundam X and Turn A Gundam.

If you thought Dragonball was a long franchise, wait until the Gundams gitcha. :D

[JohnCrichton]

I know DBZ is the full on jam, and I know that it is a extremely valuable show to the block. But basically of late it's been taking it over.

Midnight Run, half the Block, and a marathon on Saturdays. I need a bit more diversity and I miss the days when all the shows on the block got top billing.

After DBZ comes to an end, we can see Team Willy Street focus their energies more evenly on more stuff.... not on how they can cram more DBZ on the air.

I hope Gundam does well. I like it, but it's a bit complicated.... general public doesn't like complicated and it's the general public who the programmers aim to please. Hopefully the rest of this Gundam stuff is more action packed and fun to watch than 0080. :b

[William C. Maune]

"I know DBZ is the full on jam, and I know that it is a extremely valuable show to the block. But basically of late it's been taking it over. Midnight Run, half the Block, and a marathon on Saturdays."

- I agree with ya for the most part here, except you can't really count the Saturday marathon as part of the overkill. If it wasn't for DBZ Toonami wouldn't even have exposure on Saturdays right now. Also, unlike the afternoon and midnight runs Saturday DBZ isn't really taking up time when they would have been showing other Toonami programming since the Rising Sun was cancelled months before. Hopefully the Saturday DBZ block will lead to a more diversified Toonami block on Saturdays.

"After DBZ comes to an end, we can see Team Willy Street focus their energies more evenly on more stuff.... not on how they can cram more DBZ on the air."

- What makes you think Williams St. has any control over how much DBZ they air? They may be in charge of Toonami, but there are plenty of people above them as well.

"I hope Gundam does well. I like it, but it's a bit complicated.... general public doesn't like complicated and it's the general public who the programmers aim to please."

- Although, Gundam Wing is arguably the most complicated series Toonami has aired and it had monster ratings, for the first run at least.

[Dark Spider]

When DBZ dies, they will only hype up DBGT. BUT, when the DB franchise dies (which is a LONG time from now), Toonami will be forced to look into other shows. The Gundam franchise won't be the next "DBZ" but will only be a major of a new era. Toonami will finally at this point "change for the better".

[Sheamon]

DBZ is a plague thats holding the critical success of Toonami back. Things won't improve by much until the popularity of the show finally blows up in their face for their constant airing of repeats (some episodes of Buu saga have already been aired 4 or 5 times. Dragonball is on its 4th airing already). And the sad fact is that even when DBZ is done, they still have DB and DBGT. The day DBZ is removed from Toonami will be a glorious day of much celebration, atleast for me :p I could care less about ratings. Whats important was that up until last week when Tenchi returned, it was 2 months since I watched a single Toonami program, with the biggest reason being the fact that there's so much of that DBZ garbage on there.

[VinceA]

I could care less about ratings
Do you mean in general or DBZ's ratings? If Toonami didn't draw the numbers it does, it wouldn't exist. I'm sure we've had this discussion before but TV's a business and ratings are what drive the whole thing. If DBZ didn't draw the numbers it does, it wouldn't be there.

I'm getting a bit sick of the reruns myself and I did welcome the return of Tenchi with open arms. My favorite parts of the block right now are Tenchi to open it and Batman Beyond to close it (and I eat during DB/DBZ)

[Zero Yuy]

The way I see it, once DBZ is gone DB/GT is going to pick up where DBZ left off. DB/GT is going to be the replacement of DBZ and be the new "cash cow."

I wonder how Toonami's status would be if they didn't pick of DBZ. Do you think Toonami would still be here? What would of been the "cash cow" in DBZ's place?

[zimed]

Im sure if we never had DBZ toonami would only be the midnight run....

[Coollead]

Sigh...Since when was 30 minutes half of 120? TELL ME. DB =! DBZ. DB is funny, DBZ is action, fool!

And....In a few weeks, DBZ won't even be on the daily run...OMG NO! :p

and...BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, JC IS A NEWBIE :b

[VinceA]

I'm sure Toonami would have been tried during the afternoon but I'm not sure it would have survived. Without the cash that DBZ brought in, things like Outlaw Star, Big O and all UC Gundam stuff probably wouldn't have been purchased.

[William C. Maune]

[indent]Exactly. Now the question becomes, is Toonami at a point yet where it can stand on its own without DBZ. While I wouldn't go so far as to say definitely no, I can't see the answer being definitely yes yet either. Toonami without DBZ is something I don't think I would want to risk yet. Finally, no matter what I say it deserves at least one spot on the block. It is a quality action toon and that is what Toonami is all about. Some episodes may be on their 4th airing, but many Tenchi episodes had 5 and all Gundam Wing and Big O episodes had 5 airings before they were taken off the air initially. Also, Outlaw Star had 4 runs before being taken off the air initially.

[VinceA]

I'd recommend a weaning procedure - move DBZ to 5PM first then take it off for a while (at least until the 6th season is ready - then start showing the fifth season one more time leading into the premier of the 6th & final DBZ season). I'm curious to see what the ratings for the block will be during the Batman/Superman thing. I hope they're relatively high

[Sheamon]

DBZ wasn't always this rating giant though, was it? Toonami existed then. :p Toonami was in great shape back when DBZ was a piece of the block, not the block like it is now. We never talked about this doom and gloom if DBZ isn't on for 3 hours a day back when DBZ took up only 1/6 of the afternoon block, did we?

Frankly I don't see why the discussion of ratings comes up. AOL/Time Warner doesn't care about Toonami. They care about that garbage on WB that they base the real Toonami's schedule around (cancelling Rising Sun and an hour of Toonami only because it conflicted with Kids WB). One night of Midnight Run is gone, another will be gone soon as well. The execs have proven to us that they don't care what the ratings are for Toonami, they're gonna do all this crap regardless of how successful Toonami is, since if you noticed, TOONAMI'S BIGGEST PUNISHMENT OCCURED WHEN IT WAS GETTING ITS HIGHEST RATINGS EVER. Thats why I say the ratings don't matter.

[Polychrome]

Maybe someday CN will get rid of DB everything. :P Not like it'll happen anytime soon, but since they got that new executive, I can always hope.

[Overkill of ASE]

Ah well, what can you do? It's too popular to just take it off the air. CN is doing what any station would be doing: overexposing its best stuff! The only ways your complaints will be validated are:

A) DBZ sinks in popularity
B) something else meets or exceeds DBZ's popularity

[SonGoku V3]

Originally posted by Overkill of ASE
B) something else meets or exceeds DBZ's popularity

And so far, only Gundam Wing had met, and on ocassion, exceeded DBZ's popularity. What Toonami needs is another show that can be able to pull in viewers of all ages, like DBZ did, and have the ability to be more than a cult hit. As of now, Toonami has none of that, and I'm willing to bet that they won't find the "next DBZ" in any more Gundam series. After DB/Z/GT ends, I see toonami going back to the block it was when it had Jonny Quest on, and IMO, I found toonami to be nothing more than just some more cartoons on CN befor eSailormoon and DBZ came.

Edit- something else I noticed....
"Toonami was in great shape back when DBZ was a piece of the block"
I don't think having both of their new shows at the time(Sailormoon and DBZ) in constant reruns, episodes of that new Jonny Quest, and a messed up schedule is considered as "great shape". The year 2000 was Toonami at it's greatest, that was TRUE diversity. Tenchi, Sailormoon, DBZ, Gundam Wing, Ronin Warriors, Reboot, there was literally something for everyone. 2k1 came with more mecha and more DBZ. Something that really spoiled the block for me.

[Fayina]

Unlike a lot of people, DBZ was not the first show I began to watch on Toonami. In fact, I was basically watching everything else BUT DBZ for about two years or so because I really could not get into the series. I actually got into watching it during the begining of the first airing of the Cell saga when my friend forced me to watch more than five minutes of it since I made him watch Sailor Moon. I quickly began to really enjoy it though and now it is one of my favorite shows on the block. I will admit that the re-runs bother the heck out of me... especially when it gets into the third and fourth run. It was actually with the Cell Saga more than the newer episodes that the re-runs bother me.

As much as I enjoy this show, I too cannot wait until it is finally over so the block can hopefully go back to being as diverse as it use to be. I love watching Tenchi and I wish they could bring back Sailor Moon. There are also so many other shows I know they could get that would be perfect for Toonami. I can't think of another show that could become as successful as DBZ... but there probably is such a show out there somewhere. I agree with Lil Son Goku about it NOT being the Gundam series. I love the Gundam series but I don't ever see any of them becoming as popular as DBZ.

[Madman]

I'm with Fayina on this one, back when the evil cable company stopped trying to charge extra for CN, and I got it back in Novemeber of 2000 after nearly 4 years without it. I didn't watch DBZ either (back then it was only Tenchi & Sailor Moon for me :) ). But after a while I decided to give it a chance, and I did like it, but no where near how much I like other stuff on the block. I'll admit that the show is pretty good, but as soon as its over, I'll be happy to see it go.

[VinceA]

Frankly I don't see why the discussion of ratings comes up
Isn't that what drives the ad rate on commercial TV? Ad dollars = survival for a channel. I think that's why the discussion comes up. TV isn't a charity business. Programs aren't put on to make a small group happy. They're put on because they attract people to watch commercials which put money into the pockets of the network (so forth & so on).

[Sheamon]

Did you read my post? I'll make it easy. Toonami's ratings don't really matter. Well, atleast low ratings don't. After all, each month we get news about Toonami's ratings getting bigger and bigger, and each month we get news about more of the block being removed and yet another month being added to the number that Candidate for Goddess and 0083 have been left untouched. By the way things have been going since March/April, maybe we should wish for low ratings. At this rate, as the ratings continue to get better and better, the show will be reduced to one hour of DBZ a day and nothing more. And I frankly wouldn't be surprised when even that was removed.


I don't think having both of their new shows at the time(Sailormoon and DBZ) in constant reruns, episodes of that new Jonny Quest, and a messed up schedule is considered as "great shape". The year 2000 was Toonami at it's greatest, that was TRUE diversity. Tenchi, Sailormoon, DBZ, Gundam Wing, Ronin Warriors, Reboot, there was literally something for everyone. 2k1 came with more mecha and more DBZ. Something that really spoiled the block for me.

You seemed to have misunderstood what I said. DBZ used to be part of the block (pre April of 2001). I agree with you, thats when the show was at its best, between March of 2000 and March of 2001. But when the axe was drawn and Toonami was chopped up earlier this year, DBZ essentially became the block and has yet to loosen its stranglehold. We haven't had a single incarnation of the block since then that featured anything less than an hours worth of DB/Z (and DB is nothing more than an early season equivalent to DBZ. Yes, its a better show, but its still the exact same thing).

Toonami is a great block run by great people. But as long as DBZ has its stranglehold on the block, taking up over half of Toonami like it is now, I find little reason to get excited about the future. DBZ is a cancer in every aspect outside of ratings, which apparantly don't matter since the higher the ratings get, the more the execs punish the block. Toonami hasn't given me a single thing to be really happy about since July when 2 new Gundam series premeired. And as long as we have a block where its okay to cancel a show with 4 episodes left yet air the same episodes of a certain show 4, 5, 6 times in the short period of 4 months, my opinions won't change in any way.

[VinceA]

I read what you wrote but you seem to looking at things from the "ME" perspective. Someone must be liking what's on. I'm not completely entralled with it but it's a lot better than the alternatives in that time slot.

I'm still ticked a bit at what they did to MSG. I might end up buying it on DVD just because (I know it's dub-only but that's OK by me)

[Jowy Blight]

DBZ will end one day, just not right now. After they finish DBZ, they'll still have DB (The best of the three) and DBGT (The worst of the three). I think they should just take DBZ and DB out for now, until the next episodes are ready. That way, they won't overkill us with the endless Dragonball/Z reruns.

But we know this isn't going to stop anytime soon. Quite Frankly, I don't think Toonami would still be around if not for the awful DBZ dub. As for the anwser of if Toonami can live without DBZ right now, I don't really think so.

[Sheamon]

you guys talk like DBZ gets adequate ratings, and every single other show on the block, from Outlaw Star to Gundam to Zoids to Tenchi to Batman to Reboot, etc... gets ratings so low that these shows don't deserve being on the air in the first place. I guarantee you, thats not the case. If it was, Toonami would have been cancelled long ago and replaced with an all DBZ block. Once again, I think you guys are taking this whole ratings thing way to seriously. Its not as important as you all think it is, atleast in this case. ;)

[Jowy Blight]

Well, if they were to get rid of DBZ right now, the fans (most of the audience for Toonami) would be greatly upset. Which could lead to low ratings for the other shows. This also could lead to Toonami geting cut altogether, but all of this is very unlikely.

Also, if DBZ was canned, it could lead to them puting Pokemon in its place, and would you really want that?

[DScythe]

Well, if they were to get rid of DBZ right now, the fans (most of the audience for Toonami) would be greatly upset. Which could lead to low ratings for the other shows. The public has to realize that DBZ and all the other DB series will have to end eventually. William's St. can't air re-runs of DBZ as long as Toonami is a block. I think Vince was right, slowly wean the public away from DBZ. Then William's St. can get us some other shows, and empty up a slot on Toonami.

[Jowy Blight]

I agree, I'm just saying what I think would happen if they were to just take DBZ away at once.

Anybody have any ideas of what the next big show could be for Toonami?

[SonGoku V3]

Originally posted by Jowy Blight
I agree, I'm just saying what I think would happen if they were to just take DBZ away at once.

Anybody have any ideas of what the next big show could be for Toonami?

There is no "next big show" if toonami continues to go the path is going(a space themed block with space and mecha themed shows and DB/Z). DBZ will go out in a blaze of glory, probably having some of the highest ratings in history knowing this is the last season, and if DB or even DBGT can't pick up to where it left off, toonami will revert back to being just some random block on CN with "that japanimation stuff".

[Coollead]

Unless they show...DUN DUN DUN


POKEMON

[SonGoku V3]

Pokemon! Pocket Monsters! Pokemon are the champions.......wait, are we talking about the same show?:p

[Sheamon]

People, they're not gonna air Pokemon, no need to worry ;)

Odd that while I'm probably the one who hates DBZ more than anyone else here, I'm the one most confident in its place on Toonami. I don't expect them to ever remove the show from the block. Once the show is over in all likelyhood they'll run repeats until the end of Toonami's days.

[Hollywood53]

Unless FUNimation and Cartoon Network make a deal with Toei and Akira Toriyama to make a US DB series. That way FUNimation can continue the Dragonball story after GT and keep CN Toonami's ratings high.
Imagine, FUNimation making their own DB series, maybe they could dub that fan manga and bring DBAF to the states.

Pokemon may return to CN, but it won't carry CN, besides Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh will be carrying KWB until 2007 at least.

[KingKoopa]

The end of DBZ WILL be the worst point Toonami will ever see, next to Sept. 11-Oct. 1. Toonami will likely continue to run DBZ after it's over, even through DBGT. They will air DB at 5:30, DBZ at 6:00, and DBGT at 6:30. Does anyone else see a problem with this? DBGT and DBZ will likely be the Midnight Run. This means that Toonami will be a Dragon Ball Zone once GT comes out, with likely Zeta Gundam at 5:00. That's when Osama bin Laden will build a giant robot and destroy the Empire State Building with it, then Toonami will replace Zeta Gundam with 5 episodes left with Dragon Ball. So, when DBGT comes out, expect the Dragon Ball Zone to return.

[Mr. Obsession]

I doubt that will happen. They'll probably just replace DBZ with GT when they bring it to the block. And don't think that change will matter all that much as I doubt that your average North American DBZ fan will be able to tell the difference between the two. :)

Once DB and GT have aired I wouldn't be suprised if they ran them strait through with DBZ in the middle, and I won't care as long as it's limited to one time slot. Think about it DB/Z/GT run straight through will have something around 450 episodes, it would take about a year and a half to do one complete run. As such I believe DB, in all it incarnations will be with us for quite some time.

[Jowy Blight]

Think about it DB/Z/GT run straight through will have something around 450 episodes, it would take about a year and a half to do one complete run. As such I believe DB, in all it incarnations will be with us for quite some time.

I like that idea, just have one timeslot and have it run from the begining of Dragoball to the end of DBGT.

It also looks like Yu Yu Hakusho will be released in the Spring too. I heard Chis "man of a million voices" Sabat is doing voices for this one too. :wakko:

[BibidiBabidiBuu]

DBZ, Gundam, DBZ , Gundam, DBZ, Gundam, dangit man Toonami need to venture somewhere else.

"Dangit" :confused:

[William C. Maune]

[indent]You mean like Zoids, Batman Beyond, Tenchi, Big O, Outlaw Star, etc.?

[BibidiBabidiBuu]

Exactly, but I really mean like other companies ADV, Central Park, Manga, Pioneer, ect.

[Zorakfan]

What to do after the Db franchise has worn out? Again I bring to point Draconis Ball Zeta. That is all.