If Demona met Magneto...

[Doop]

would the two get along?

Would Demona work with him?

Would she consider being a mutant another type of human, or would she think of them as a different race (so her anger towards humans wouldnt be directed towards him)?

[GregX]

At most, she would respect him, but not admit it. But I doubt she would trust him. She'd just see him as a different kind of human. But still a human.

As for whether or not she would work with him. She worked with Xanatos. So, I'd say yes. It wouldn't last. Just until she got what she wanted or until he realised working with her is a bad idea.

[Doop]

But they both share the same (or at least, a similiar) goal, wheres Xanatos had a different one. Maybe she wouldn't trust him immediately, but it wouldn't be impossible for him to earn it.

Maybe she'd think that mutants were better than humans (the next step in evolution, and all)?

[GregX]

Demona would see them as being the same. A few differences here and there. Yes, but still humans. And she wouldn't trust Magneto, because she doesn't trust anyone.

It just wouldn't work out in the long run anyway. Nothing to do with methods or world views.

I somehow doubt the existence of an X-gene will get Demona to not despise them as much as she does humanity. And mutants, when it comes down to it, are not a different species. They are the next phase in the evolution of the human race. They are human beings. That's the whole damn point.

Demona is all about genocide. No ifs, ands or buts about it. Magneto is more by any means necessary. Genocide is not his goal, subjugation and the ascension of mutant rule is. If genocide is necessary, he would pull that trigger, but it's not something he wants to do.

And, when it comes down to it. Demona is her own worst enemy.

[krazymed]

Demona is more or less the Gargoyles version of Mystique, in both character and appearance. So I don't see anything further than a mutual disdain of the human race.

[Undrave]

Demona has big deep seated issues with trust, that makes ANY form of cooperation difficult. She can't trust anybody and plus she keeps blaming others for her own mistakes (see City of Stone part 4), she can't face the fact she was responsible in part for the destruction of her clan and what happened with MacBeth.

[Doop]

Demona is more or less the Gargoyles version of Mystique, in both character and appearance. So I don't see anything further than a mutual disdain of the human race.

They look similiar and have other similiarites, but I think she has more in common with Mags (tragic past of persecution and oppression, ect ect) than she does with Mystique.

[Doop]

Demona has big deep seated issues with trust, that makes ANY form of cooperation difficult. She can't trust anybody and plus she keeps blaming others for her own mistakes (see City of Stone part 4), she can't face the fact she was responsible in part for the destruction of her clan and what happened with MacBeth.

She overheard MacBeth contemplating on betraying her.

And while the destruction was partly her fault, it was the captain's part of the deal to deal with the vikings. There was nothing she could do.

[Undrave]

Still she shouldn't have plotted to betray the castle to begin with. And even if whatever happened is not entirely her fault she still have issue with trust anyway you look at it.

It would still be interesting to see the two together... write a fic!

[Doop]

Seeing as how the castle treated the gargoyles like dirt, despite all the gargoyles did for them, I can see why Demona would act like she did.

And she has trouble trusting people because she keeps on getting betrayed. Look at what happened with the last person she trusted; Thailog...

[GregX]

"Demona is her own worst enemy."
- Greg Weisman

[Doop]

True, but it's not like she's entirely to blame for what's happened to herself. And "the road to hell is paved with..." certainly applies.

[GregX]

She is not entirely to blame, there is plenty to go around. But, none of these atrocities would have been possible without her involvement.


I don't think you'll find many people with a better grasp on Demona than me, except Greg Weisman.

[Doop]

What are your particular views on the character (you have her in your avatar, so I'm assuming you like her)?

[GregX]

My views on the character, well... she is my personal favorite character in ANY form of fiction. Hell, I'm getting her tattooed on my calf as soon as my friend draws up the design.

She's a terrific character, a great antagonist, almost Shakespearan. She's very complex. Very, very screwed up. Like Greg Weisman says, she is her own worst enemy.

She is not an evil person, she has some noble qualities, and that's what makes her so tragic. She's suffered a lot, but it was self inflicted. But, she needs to blame humanity for her pain, because she doesn't have the spine to own up for her own mistakes. And why, because she is a genocidal sociopath who can't accept the responsibility for every damn choice she's ever made.

I root for Demona, but not in the way most would think.

I think in both Demona and David Xanatos, "Gargoyles" created the two greatest antagonists in American animation. I'd take them over bumbling idiots like the Shredder or Cobra Commander any day.

[Undrave]

The Utrom Shredder wasn't a bumbling idiot though, he was a great evil villain, but no subtlety, Karai Shredder got more subtlety than him and even there.

But I agree that Demona and Xanathos are the greatest antagonists of American animation!

[Anarky]

Demona "worked" w/ Xanatos only because the man had resources. Once she started using the "gift" Puck gave her, she branched out on her own

If anything she'd only hate mutants more because they're humans w/ powers far greater than any gargoyle. Unless she could discover the secret of the X gene and activate those dormant genes within gargoyle dna, I don't see Demona allying herself w/ Magneto...though I'm sure Magneto would be interested in having a gargoyle's life span (according to lore, gargoyles age 1/4 the rate of humans, e.g.: a 100-yr old human= 25 yr old gargoyle)

"I think in both Demona and David Xanatos, "Gargoyles" created the two greatest antagonists in American animation. I'd take them over bumbling idiots like the Shredder or Cobra Commander any day." -gregx

i assume greg's speaking about the Shredder from the 80's tv series.
The Shredder from 2K3 OWNS!!!

[StarScream64]

I think they'd get along. Just long enough for the two of them to take over the world and then one to betray the other once that goal is met. And I would bet that Demona would be the one to turn on Magneto.


according to lore, gargoyles age 1/4 the rate of humans, e.g.: a 100-yr old human= 25 yr old gargoyle

Actually, it's 1/2 the rate of humans. But Magneto wanting that ability is still an interesting notion.

[GregX]

I think they'd get along. Just long enough for the two of them to take over the world and then one to betray the other once that goal is met. And I would bet that Demona would be the one to turn on Magneto.


Actually, it's 1/2 the rate of humans. But Magneto wanting that ability is still an interesting notion.

It's a biological thing. A product of stone sleep. They don't age while they're stone.

And it's moot because Demona is immortal and no longer turns to stone during the day.

[I.R Joey]

Demona's a very layered charecter (still prefer Macbeth and Xanatos though). I think the comparisons between her and Magneto are pretty much justified.

Whoever pointed out that she lacks the ability to take responsibility for her actions is spot on. She managed to create two of her greatest foes simply because she couldn't deal with her desire for revenge, and her inability to see her own flaws.

Spoilers.

-She scarred the young man in the barn, yes for food, but also out of pettiness. Thus she created a group of people that would trouble her for centuries.

-She turned on Macbeth when he would have stayed loyal to her, even after Macbeth's wife told her the truth, she still continued on the path she was on.

-She refused to even acknowledge Goliath's reasoning about humans (even after he went back in time and warned her of what she would become). Thus she turned her whole clan against her.

The list could go on I'm sure.

[Doop]

I don't know how responsible Demona is for the guy she scratched becoming the Hunter. Greg stated that he would have become a bad person anyway, because of his abusive father (something along the lines of 'demona gave him the drive, but his father gave him the darkness).

And keep in mind, in 'Vows', she had been transported to the burning castle where her older self warned her of an apocalyptic future, and the older Goliath basically just told her to just forget it and pretend it never happened.

She was wrong in turning on MacBeth, but keep in mind she had just heard him considering betraying her to gain the English's support; of course, she jumped the gun and he wasn't really planning on betraying her, but still, put yourself in her shoes.

[GregX]

And, Greg Weisman settles this old debate....

Doop, everything you said is wrong. :evil:

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=8777

[Doop]

And, Greg Weisman settles this old debate....

Doop, everything you said is wrong. :evil:

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=8777

I wish he would have answered the No one noticed anything odd when they woke up (ala 'Where's so-and-so?" or "What are these piles of of stones?") bit.

And he said, "Not big on hypotheticals, but I'd guess..." so it's not like he's 100% certain. :p

[GregX]

ANd he also said what anyone who watched the show and paid attention knows, that Macbeth was never contemplating betraying Demona, he was just teaching his son a lesson. You like to insist he was contemplating betraying her, you've done it on this board, and you've done it on PM.

And as for the mutant thing, no, he does not like hypotheticals, but I've talked with Greg enough, and know the man well enough to know that, if that's his guess, then well, that's what it would be. Demona would regard mutants as just another kind of human, and would hold contempt for them also.

[Doop]

I'm not the only viewer who thought that Macbeth considered betraying Demona.

Did you read the essay Demona - Villainess or Victim? over at www.gargoyles-fans.org (http://www.gargoyles-fans.org)?
Even Demona's betrayal of Macbeth to Canmore and the English is understandable, if somewhat hasty. Having learned to trust no one, Demona eavesdrops on a conversation between Macbeth, his most trusted advisor, and his own son. Macbeth is advised to sever all ties with the gargoyles, so that Canmore's support from the English will fall away. When Macbeth's son expresses shock and outrage, Macbeth calmly tells him that all options must be considered. Predictably, Demona interprets this as confirmation of her ally's betrayal, and she leads the clan away. Why did Macbeth even entertain the comment? Demona had been a loyal ally for decades! Would he have been as open if the so-called 'option' had involved giving up his wife or son? This action probably solidified her dislike of humans for centuries.

[GregX]

So, just because you're not the only person doesn't make you any less wrong.

More than one person out there thinks the Holocaust didn't happen... does that make them more credible? No.

[Doop]

I don't deny that Weisman's intentions were for Macbeth to not really consider betraying Demona, but the actual show was more ambiguous and plenty of people thought otherwise until he clarified it.

That was my point; you made it sound like anyone who watched the show would come off thinking, "No, Macbeth never actually considered betraying Demona." There's a difference between interpreting what a fictional character's intentions are, and denying something that is proven fact (ala the Holocaust).

Furthermore, I don't see how we were supposed to know that the statues aren't the bickering couple because the guy's wearing a toupee and the woman's brunette; how are we supposed to know that when they're frozen in stone and their only color is gray? I'm not saying it's the couple anymore, but there was no way in the actual episode to differentiate them from the the statues Demona smashed.

[Sparticus]

They'd probably use eachother the same way Demona and Xanatos used eachother. And, of course, it would all end in tears. :p

Now, Demona and Knives would get along just a liiiitle too well...:gir:

[Doop]

What about the Cylons? :D

[Sparticus]

Uhhh... never seen Battlestar Galactica. Had to google Cylons! Lol!

[Undrave]

What about the Cylons? :D

Cylons want to exterminate all life, not just humans, so they wouldn't like Gargoyles either.

Maybe some alien with world domination ideas.

[Doop]

No, just humans.

D'Anna/Number Three was seen playing with the dog Jake in "Exodus I".

[Undrave]

Oh... I was talking CLASSIC Cylon. You know the big lugs with the moving red bleep?

I wonder who would come up on top in a Cyberman VS Cylon brawl... I think the Daleks would just come in a whoop both teams' cybernetic behinds XD