Batgirl in "Grudge Match"

[Frank White]

I got the impression from Grudge Match that as far as fighting skills Wonder Woman is pretty much top dog in the DCAU followed by I assume Black Canary and Huntress who are more or less tied, then Shayera and Vixen. Now I wonder how Batgirl would have done in the Grudge Match, I could defintely see her beating Fire, and maybe even Vixen or Huntress, any ideas? Oh and could Supergirl beat Wonder Woman?

[Alex Weitzman]

I don't know if Wonder Woman is necessarily "top dog" in regards to fighting skills per se. It's just that she's practically Superman-level strong. It's like comparing Superman and Batman. Superman's power level is so high that he doesn't need any finessed moves, so his "fighting skills" are far, far inferior to a martial artist like Batman or Black Canary. It just doesn't matter for him, or Diana, because they're so strong.

[Dens Maris]

If we're talking Barbara Gordon (because Cassandra Cain is supposed to be a veritable goddess of hand-to-hand combat, right? :sweat:), then...hmm. Barbara, in good Bat-tradition, has shown she can fight with her head, not her body. I think the best example is in Holiday Knights where she has Bullock and Montoya take down Clayface using a big Christmas decoration. She's also gone up against Livewire, though I admittedly can't remember how that ended. Her actual fighting style uses a lot of acrobatics but she's shown a reasonable knowledge of hand-to-hand combat and throws a mean batarang...she'd probably be mid-tier on her best days, if you ask me.

As for Supergirl and Wonder Woman, I'd give it to Wonder Woman, but the thing is, Supergirl's still quite young. Galatea gave Supergirl a Wonder Woman-sized beating, so once Supergirl reached Galatea's age, Diana might be one of two giants in town.

[Joker1238]

WW is top dog, for females, She is only behind Superman in the comics of fighting/powers.

She was train by the Amazons, who are Warrior like Women, so she is a step behind maybe Batman in the fighting arts.

[Frank White]

I don't know if Wonder Woman is necessarily "top dog" in regards to fighting skills per se. It's just that she's practically Superman-level strong. It's like comparing Superman and Batman. Superman's power level is so high that he doesn't need any finessed moves, so his "fighting skills" are far, far inferior to a martial artist like Batman or Black Canary. It just doesn't matter for him, or Diana, because they're so strong.

True, but I thought Grudge Match showed that beyond strength Diana has considerable fighting skills,I thought she was using plenty of finessed moves. Plus I remember reading somewhere that Amazon training is like more advanced than any other fighting style or something to that effect.

[Beyond Batman]

I don't know if Wonder Woman is necessarily "top dog" in regards to fighting skills per se. It's just that she's practically Superman-level strong. It's like comparing Superman and Batman. Superman's power level is so high that he doesn't need any finessed moves, so his "fighting skills" are far, far inferior to a martial artist like Batman or Black Canary. It just doesn't matter for him, or Diana, because they're so strong.

Wonder Woman, according to the comics, is a born warrior. A "gladiator" amongst her people if you will.

Fighting skills employ more than just "trained combat." It involves using your instinct, judgement, reflexes, etc. Of course, brute strength isn't always a factor when it comes to fighting. Fighting smart, or just plain ol' dumb luck can turn the tide in a "grudge match."

[theRedDeath]

I don't know if Wonder Woman is necessarily "top dog" in regards to fighting skills per se. It's just that she's practically Superman-level strong. It's like comparing Superman and Batman. Superman's power level is so high that he doesn't need any finessed moves, so his "fighting skills" are far, far inferior to a martial artist like Batman or Black Canary. It just doesn't matter for him, or Diana, because they're so strong.

For the record, in the comics anyway, Superman IS a trained Martial Artist. He DOES know all kind of fighting styles, including rare Kryptonian techniques. You don't see it often because it's usually unnecessary, but for clarification purposes, even powerless he still knows how to throw down.

[Sage Shinigami]

You don't see it often because it's usually unnecessary


And 'cause it hasn't been true in 20 years...;) That's some Pre-Crisis stuff, man. Supes has no such Kryptonian techniques (or knows any martial arts) in our current timeline, man. If he did, you just KNOW Morrison would've had him using some K-Kune-Do (or a much more inventive name for said techniques) on some baddie.


As for WW....there's no Cassandra Cain so no, I would guess that WW is top dog in terms of fighting capabilities, since she's been trained since birth by ageless Amazons. That said...Cassandra could hand Diana (sans powers) her bu....bracelets. :p Even Diana can't boast that she knows how to predict her opponent's moves before they make them. (Plus....Cassie can belt Bats. No non-powered person other than her and Lady Shiva has a chance at that without catching him offguard.)

[theRedDeath]

And 'cause it hasn't been true in 20 years...;) That's some Pre-Crisis stuff, man. Supes has no such Kryptonian techniques (or knows any martial arts) in our current timeline, man. If he did, you just KNOW Morrison would've had him using some K-Kune-Do (or a much more inventive name for said techniques) on some baddie.

Nope, he still knows many different martial arts, including Kryptonian styles, in post-crisis continuity.

[Anarky]

I can't recall DCAU Superman ever attempting to kick anyone ever. He's always been a slugger...and a damned good one at that. If WBA decides to make a companion series to The Batman, you can guarantee that The Man of Steel will be using martial arts as well. I mean, if The Penguin knows kung-fu then so will Supes, right?:rolleyes:

We all know Wonder Woman is a fighter, born & bred. She's kind of a hothead too so when she's in warrior-mode, she's almost unstoppable.

The beatdown she handed the others was quite thorough. They had next to nothing on her. I wonder if Lex recorded these brawls for his own amusement a la Slade in "Apprentice" Part 2. (insert Slade smilie)

[adoptedBatpuppy]

Well, I remember when Superman lost his powers do to the red sun on the animated series, and kicked someone in the stomach without using his powers! So, I would say he knows at least the basics! :shrug: