Justice League Unlimited - New Episodes Talkback (UK Airings), Part II (Spoilers)

[Bird Boy]

Part two of the UK airings!

Last Episode: "Grudge Match"
Next Episode: "Far From Home" (Wednesday)

-BB

[Rosert Gnimhar*]

Part two of the UK airings!

Last Episode: "Grudge Match" (Featuring a 2 second cameo by Nightwing!)
Next Episode: "Far From Home" (Wednesday)

-BB

Hmm... Bird Boy, perhaps that first post of yours can be edited a bit to exclude the line about Nightwing. Considering that yours is the first post of the new thread, should someone's mouse just haphazardly fall on the thread's link they could find themselves immediately spoiled without even ever opening the thread.

Just something I thought should be pointed out, for the sake of the spoiler-avoiders.


As for the episode, the action was awesome, the plot (especially the mind controlling communicators bit was problematic) was thin (but reasonable development from "The Cat & the Canary"), and the dialogue was top notch. But, I feel that where the major fight scenes were beautifully over the top with wonderful boarding, direction and animation, the scene with Canary, Huntress and the crook was really not as attractive. I felt a little bit more 'dazzle' could have been put into it.

I also thought that the opening scene with the low-budget fight club could have looked better, but I'll concede that perhaps that was the point. They wanted to give the idea that the Metabrawl was far from what it had once been and thus the less than spectacular fighting performance of the competitors.

The thing is, while I can accept that because Canary was tired in the crook chasing scene the action there was suppose to be subdued, but while I accept that, I still don't think that the scene as a whole should have been as bland looking as it was...especially in comparison to later parts of the episode.

Ok, perhaps I'm babling now, but really, can anyone honestly say that that chase scene looked anywhere as beautiful as the opening scene to "The Cat and the Canary"? My point is, even if Canary had to get beaten up, at least it could have been done with the same sense of style (this sounds sadistic) as the opening of that episode. Simply put, "TCATC" started off with very strong animation...this started with a crawl. Once it did get going though, it was truly awesome. I think one of the more art savvy posters would say that the episode's story boarding/animation was 'uneven'.

Great episode over all though. Looking forward to Wednesday's.


Peace out!:)

RG*:knd1:

[Knight]

I liked this ep a lot it was better than The cat and the canary for me.
We get a fight club that in Bluidhaven and a cameo by Nightwing and the JL females beating the crap out of each other it doesnt get much better than that.

Also I gather from the ep that Black Canary and Huntress operate out of Gotham since they drove from there to Nightwings city which in the comics isnt that far away from Batmans.

[James]

I made a joke about it earlier I know, but can someone explain (without getting too adult) how women fighting is somehow a GREAT/COOL thing? I presume it's in a sexual way as I was earlier making fun of that cliche!

Everyone is saying it and I think I'll be the first to say I don't see what the... attraction is. I can understand other kinks from an objective way (power/domination/fetishes) but I must confess I've not really ever understood this one and it's only when reading these posts I realised it's a cliche I've taken for granted.

Perhaps someone could PM me and explain! :confused: :)

[Hero Supreme]

so, did lex hack the watchtower com system or what?

[Lord Fate]

So who had the advantage in the fights:evil:

I've heard Hawkgirl takes a major beating

[James]

So who had the advantage in the fights:evil:

I've heard Hawkgirl takes a major beating

Wonder Woman with successful odds of 4 to 1. It was good to see the show give a very clear indication of ability. From Huntress and Canary having to face Vixen and Shayera (the latter's mace suddenly looked very threatening) to the steel form of Diana (whose whole body suddenly looked more impervious than usual.. I was scared). Yeah, Wonder Woman came across as she should - not to be toyed with.

[Bird Boy]

Hmm... Bird Boy, perhaps that first post of yours can be edited a bit to exclude the line about Nightwing. Considering that yours is the first post of the new thread, should someone's mouse just haphazardly fall on the thread's link they could find themselves immediately spoiled without even ever opening the thread.

Just something I thought should be pointed out, for the sake of the spoiler-avoiders.

I appreciate the concern, but even roll-over mouse options on the threads (those quick ID tag "thread summaries") don't show Nightwing in it. So the only way they're going to see it is if they click on the thread.

-BB

[Rosert Gnimhar*]

I appreciate the concern, but even roll-over mouse options on the threads (those quick ID tag "thread summaries") don't show Nightwing in it. So the only way they're going to see it is if they click on the thread.

-BB


Hmm... it shows on my computer..

[Bird Boy]

Hmm... it shows on my computer..

Interesting. Doesn't show up on mine (cuts off at "cameo"). In any case, I removed the Nightwing bit.

-BB

[Jazzie]

This was my favorite episode of the season thus far. Very sweet.

[Rosert Gnimhar*]

Interesting. Doesn't show up on mine (cuts off at "cameo"). In any case, I removed the Nightwing bit.

-BB

Wasn't that big of a deal for me (since I've already seen the show), but like I said, it may have crossed some of the spoiler-avoiders. Don't know about why it was different on our individual systems though.

But thanks for the edit.


Peace out!;)

RG*:knd1:


Now back to your regularly scheduled discussion...

[BoyScout]

Wonder Woman kicks ass

good episode...but hey...any episode this season is just a bonus. For all I care, I was satisfied withe wrap up of last season.

This is just the icing

later

- BoyScout out

[Simpler Simon]

Grudge Match continues this season's trend of "concept" stories that are vaguely linked to the Legion of Doom arc. They're fun for 20min, packed with action, but they're somewhat disappointing considering the stories JLU was able to squeeze into the same time frame last season. It feels like the series we'd have gotten if every episode was like "Initiation" or "Hawk and Dove" like originally planned.

Still I like how Joaquim Dos Santos returned to direct the follow-up to the episode that made him notable among fans, and the action scenes are as good as ever. My favourite moment of the night though, was not the Nightwing cameo but The Question cameo. I didnt think we'd see him again, so it's nice they got him in there and gave him a great one-liner. Heck, just seeing Huntress and Black Canary again was a treat in itself.

And the Nightwing cameo? If thats the only way to bypass the embargo, I'm surprised we haven't been seeing Riddler, Scarecrow, Bane, etc. shadows in the LoD headquarters.

[James]

And the Nightwing cameo? If thats the only way to bypass the embargo, I'm surprised we haven't been seeing Riddler, Scarecrow, Bane, etc. shadows in the LoD headquarters.

A natural question certainly.

I'd imagine that it's because one can barely make out NW, the fact that he bears no relevance to the story (in ANY way - while any characters added to LoD would technically be part of the central plot) and there is no need to get all complicated with the issues of adding them when you 1500 other villains to choose from.

Time is money, these productions are on a tight schedule, the possibilities are - I imagine - significantly narrowed by the need to remain on time. One very special non relevant and inconspiciuous cameo for the fans is probably very different to navigate around the embargo for the sake of bolstering up numbers in a group which needs no excess.

Would explain why I think.

[A.J]

Grudge Match continues this season's trend of "concept" stories that are vaguely linked to the Legion of Doom arc. They're fun for 20min, packed with action, but they're somewhat disappointing considering the stories JLU was able to squeeze into the same time frame last season. It feels like the series we'd have gotten if every episode was like "Initiation" or "Hawk and Dove" like originally planned.

Are you kidding me? NO way this season is like Initiation or Hawk and Dove. With so much action, fun, cameos, a thousand villains, plot twists, continuity, new heroes and excellent animation I have no idea why would you "downgrade" JLU season 3. Ive said it before, just because this isnt as adult oriented as Cadmus it doesnt mean the new season is bad or bland or like Initiation...just my opinion anyway...

[Revelator]

I'm still puzzled by the limbo surrounding Nightwing. Teen Titans, now dead, can't use him, and The Batman hasn't even introduced Robin yet, so Nightwing is off the table for them. Yet the character apprently was even a hassle for the TT crew to get the rights to. I'm presuming that it's DC Comics that is being stingy with the character, perhaps because they plan on doing big things with him during or after their Infinite-Whatever-the-hell wankfest...or perhaps not. In any case, while I loved the cameo, and am very grateful to the staff for their thoughtfulness, I unfortunately have an all-or-nothing mentality, and wish that itty-bitty slice of screentime (including the Bludhaven cues) had gone toward giving one of the relevant characters a little bit more business or an extra line. It's just to painful to watch that carefully shadowed and obscure figure and know that this is the best possible state he can exist in within the soon-to-be-gone DCAU.

[MilkManX]

Holy crap that was awesome!(Grudge Match)

I am a huge fan of "The Cat and the Canary" because of Wildcat and BC and the excellent fights.

This episode topped the fights. I would never even think of messing with Wonder Woman.

It would have been fun to see WW versus Barda though.....

Q cameo was awesome and the little glimpse of NW was there just for us. The fans.

Cant wait to see the next one.

[JLfan4life]

man...that was awesome!!!!!!! i'm still cringing from those hits!! WW was the WOMAN in this!! good lord...HG and Vixen got their *** handed to them on a silver platter. Question was hilarious as usual. I wonder how that tala/roulette fight would have turned out. this was good. didn't like the shakey cam that much, but those fights more than made up for it. can't wait until the next one.

[Hero Supreme]

so, did lex hack the watchtower com system or what?

hmmm... good question, how did the legion get control of those earpieces? sounds like a pretty big breach of JL security. and if they could so easily control JL members, why not just get them all to fly into the sun or something? thats a better plan than turning the world into a planet of the apes. or getting the female members to mud wrestle.

maybe I should run the legion of doom! BWA HA HA!

[James]

I'm still puzzled by the limbo surrounding Nightwing. Teen Titans, now dead, can't use him, and The Batman hasn't even introduced Robin yet, so Nightwing is off the table for them. Yet the character apprently was even a hassle for the TT crew to get the rights to. I'm presuming that it's DC Comics that is being stingy with the character, perhaps because they plan on doing big things with him during or after their Infinite-Whatever-the-hell wankfest...or perhaps not. In any case, while I loved the cameo, and am very grateful to the staff for their thoughtfulness, I unfortunately have an all-or-nothing mentality, and wish that itty-bitty slice of screentime (including the Bludhaven cues) had gone toward giving one of the relevant characters a little bit more business or an extra line. It's just to painful to watch that carefully shadowed and obscure figure and know that this is the best possible state he can exist in within the soon-to-be-gone DCAU.

I always assumed it was simply the rights lie with Dick Grayson as much as NW. After TT finished I believe the animated rights to Robin and NW haved moved to The Batman. Sensible place for them to be really. :)

Whether TB uses them immediately isn't really important, the right to use NW in story capacity from DC lies solely with them. As I've said before, the industry rationale generally is (unless circumstances demands otherwise as with Batman being relevant to JLU and TB) that the characters rest with one show. Makes sense really (from a non fan view) that you try and establish those show and their "take" on characters by keeping said major characters as exclusive as possible.

My industry jargon is probably slightly inaccurate, but that seems to be the way it works - not on a need to need basis, but a set one. NW and Robin now sit with TB (and probably just "Robin" in any DTV TTs that come) on any future circumstance. That's the pattern we've been seeing embargo wise and I guess that's why the character remains so elusive and non descript in this episode. I find the whole thing perversely fascinating. :p

I can see where you are coming from so far as it being as painful as it is wonderful to see a character you love. That's the mix of extremes you get for being a fan. I think whether you enjoyed the cheeky appearance (like me) or found it a little frustrating (like Rev), it's good to have a small indication of where NW ended up and, in fact, he's still doing his night job. Amazing what a 2 second shot can tell you. :)

[Simpler Simon]

Are you kidding me? NO way this season is like Initiation or Hawk and Dove. With so much action, fun, cameos, a thousand villains, plot twists, continuity, new heroes and excellent animation I have no idea why would you "downgrade" JLU season 3. Ive said it before, just because this isnt as adult oriented as Cadmus it doesnt mean the new season is bad or bland or like Initiation...just my opinion anyway...

Your opinions would sound a lot stronger if you didnt add the "just my opinion anyway" disclaimer at the end ;)

I'm actually loving this whole LoD thing. The story arc doesn't have to be adult-oriented to make me happy. What I would like though, is more narrative structure. Stories that have a clear, beginning, middle and end, instead of what I am Legion, Grudge Match, Patriot Act, and Chaos at the Earth's Core have been: stories with beginnings followed by middles that simply keep the action going till the end. I miss that clearly defined third act of the narrative.

JLU seasons 1 and 3 are very simliar in that they are reversals of each other. Both take "concepts" and pad them out into 20min stories ("turn the leaguers into kids! wonder woman into a pig! superfriends homage! girlfight! journey to the center of the earth! flash and luthor swap minds!"). The difference is that season 1 gave these concepts clear beginnings, middles, and ends, whereas season 3 does not. However, I also found the story concepts for season 1 somewhat bland, whereas the concepts for season 3 have been much more fun.

And no, I don't blame this on Matt Wayne or any one specific writer or staff. Rather its just the narrative style they chose to go with this season, and it just happens to be one that doesn't always agree with me.

[Kolbar]

Wasn't a big fan of "The Cat and the Canary" but I did enjoy "Grudge Match." It was great to see Roulette again as well as Canary, Huntress, and the Question. Glad to see Sonar get a speaking role, too. If anyone's interested, screencaps (http://www.jlcentral.net/modules.php?name=Episodes&file=grudgematch1) are available.

Also, is this Catman?
http://www.jlcentral.net/images/grudgematch/grudgematch015.jpg

[A.J]

maybe I should run the legion of doom! BWA HA HA!

No Mr. Jinx! I AM the one who should be in charge! BWA HA HA HA HA!! The world would be mine in a sec and the League gone as well! BWA HA HA HA :evil:

Hmm. Ok. Sorry about that...couldnt help it! :o

[Samhaine]

I made a joke about it earlier I know, but can someone explain (without getting too adult) how women fighting is somehow a GREAT/COOL thing?
I think it was Seinfeld that said it best when they explainedthat guys like chickfights becuase they think a boob is going to pop out or something. Now obviously, that wasn't going to happen here, but it's so ingrained in guys' minds that any instance provokes the same reaction.

[Yojimbo]

Wasn't a big fan of "The Cat and the Canary" but I did enjoy "Grudge Match." It was great to see Roulette again as well as Canary, Huntress, and the Question. Glad to see Sonar get a speaking role, too. If anyone's interested, screencaps (http://www.jlcentral.net/modules.php?name=Episodes&file=grudgematch1) are available.

Most likely, but he doesn't have his Golden Age look, unless its a more modern one. Only James Tucker truly knows...

[Knight]

Wonder Woman with successful odds of 4 to 1. It was good to see the show give a very clear indication of ability. From Huntress and Canary having to face Vixen and Shayera (the latter's mace suddenly looked very threatening) to the steel form of Diana (whose whole body suddenly looked more impervious than usual.. I was scared). Yeah, Wonder Woman came across as she should - not to be toyed with.

Yeah Diana came away looking undamaged in the whole fight while Vixen and Shayera looked like they had been put through the ringer.

[James]

I think it was Seinfeld that said it estg when they explainedthat guys like chickfights becuase they think a boob is going to pop out or something. Now obviously, that wasn't going to happen here, but it's so ingrained in guys' minds that any instance provokes the same reaction.

LOL. THANK you. I now see the angle! The anticipation mixed with voyeuristic degradation ("Whoops, she didn't want that to happen and she didn't want me to see either! MaWehey!) and a little same gender titilation ("wow, the other girl saw it too..."). SO male! So engrained into our very genetic makeup. The jigsaw fits. We really are such a deep and empathic gender.... really, I wonder if it was simply a coin toss between ape and man to whom was worth to become the dominant species.

[Karkull]

I made a joke about it earlier I know, but can someone explain (without getting too adult) how women fighting is somehow a GREAT/COOL thing? I presume it's in a sexual way as I was earlier making fun of that cliche!

Everyone is saying it and I think I'll be the first to say I don't see what the... attraction is. I can understand other kinks from an objective way (power/domination/fetishes) but I must confess I've not really ever understood this one and it's only when reading these posts I realised it's a cliche I've taken for granted.

Perhaps someone could PM me and explain! :confused: :)Guys just like seeing girls on top of girls. Not much to explain here.

Also, is this Catman?
http://www.jlcentral.net/images/grudgematch/grudgematch015.jpgCould be. However, he also looks a bit like Hellhound, a recent Catwoman villain:

http://www.comics.org/graphics/covers/4634/400/4634_4_0000033.jpg

The connotation here is interesting: considering how Meta-Brawl has hit hard times and Wildcat was her biggest star, maybe Roulette is trying to create another cat-themed hero for her ring.

[Gorthaur]

LOL. THANK you. I now see the angle! The anticipation mixed with voyeuristic degradation ("Whoops, she didn't want that to happen and she didn't want me to see either! MaWehey!) and a little same gender titilation ("wow, the other girl saw it too..."). SO male! So engrained into our very genetic makeup. The jigsaw fits. We really are such a deep and empathic gender.... really, I wonder if it was simply a coin toss between ape and man to whom was worth to become the dominant species.Well, the females of most other primate species are somewhat lacking in the boobs department by comparison to humans, so clearly the apes were simply less motivated.

Okay, sorry about that.

While I personally don't see the appeal of "catfights," per se, I do rather enjoy seeing Wonder Woman kick ass. But then again, that's one of those power dynamic things you mentioned earlier. :/

[Merlin Missy]

So far, I have been enjoying these episodes tremendously. Very short review of all: OMG, we're so keeping Matt Wayne.

Back for a moment to "Great Brain Robbery," though, I've got something to toss into the smallish crowd we've got here. b.t. mentioned the double standard present when Wally, er, scrabbled Tala, as opposed to when Shayera scarbbled with Carter. (Meh. Some of us have been using "sled" as our euphemism per C&J, and I think I like that one a bit better.)

Anyway, I'm just curious as to how many people who saw the episode noticed and/or were squicked by the part where Wally raped Tala. Because I'm a bit squicked, personally. Not as much as I could be, simply because as is typical in this kind of setup (see "Anansi Boys," "Revenge of the Nerds," Faith-in-Buffy's-body-nailing-Riley, etc.) the team sidestepped the issue with, "But she really enjoyed it," with an added, "She's a villain and kind of a slut anyway and she initiated it." For those of you who aren't on the same page, it's the difference between consent and informed consent. Or, imagine if you will Lex-in-Wally not being found out immediately, and taking the opportunity to sleep with Fire, and her subsequent reaction when she found out. :sad:

Just, kind of squicky. Because I didn't think Wally was like that, and now I have to re-evaluate my take on the character with the new information. I'm not quite at the point where I'm going to tell my son, "Don't watch this guy anymore because he's a creep," but I've lost a lot of respect for the character, and that makes me sad, because I used to like him.

Regarding "Grudge Match," I liked the ep overall, but had some issues with the structure. I think the tease was unnecessary. (Okay, "Chickapalooza" almost saved it entirely with one word. :cool: ) We didn't learn anything useful about Lex's plans or even about Roulette, as far as I can tell, and the initial catfight was Even More Gratuitous than the rest of the ep. I suspect the time could have been spent building up or at least giving a moment of on-screen if unspoken lip-service to the various "grudges" we saw hashed out in the ring. Diana and Shayera kicking the snot out of each other, and Shayera and Vixen kicking the snot out of each other were both fights a long time in the making, and while as fans who've been there, we all know this, Random Viewer is not going to have any idea why Shayera's mace an inch from Mari's head led to the looks of horror from both of them. (And I don't mean exposition; a dialogue-free two second shot of Vixen and GL at one lunch table with Shayera glancing in their direction and rapidly turning away would be sufficient. Less sure about how to present the long-standing Diana vs. Shayera stress, but I'm thinking it could have been done without more Wally-and-pasta.)

Alternately, the build-up between Huntress and Canary was spot-on perfect, with a lovely touch of subtext thrown in (was I really the only one who got a "Luke and Leia on the catwalk" vibe when Helena grabbed Dinah and swung away?). Also, H/Q continues to be by far the cutest pairing in JLU, omg. They're damaged. They're quirky. It's great!

Anyway, gonna end this so I don't start seeing spoilers for the next ep when I post.

MM:)

[A.J]

So, what episode is on today in CN UK?? Any speculation about the new one?

[Knight]

Does anyone else think that if Luthor can gain control of the League through their com links that using this skill just to have the women fight in Meta brawl was a waste? He could have used the comlink control plan for something bigger. Now im sure they will be guarded against that.

[Karkull]

Anyway, I'm just curious as to how many people who saw the episode noticed and/or were squicked by the part where Wally raped Tala. Because I'm a bit squicked, personally. Not as much as I could be, simply because as is typical in this kind of setup (see "Anansi Boys," "Revenge of the Nerds," Faith-in-Buffy's-body-nailing-Riley, etc.) the team sidestepped the issue with, "But she really enjoyed it," with an added, "She's a villain and kind of a slut anyway and she initiated it." For those of you who aren't on the same page, it's the difference between consent and informed consent. Or, imagine if you will Lex-in-Wally not being found out immediately, and taking the opportunity to sleep with Fire, and her subsequent reaction when she found out. :sad:At the risk of speaking out of school (I haven't seen the episode yet), Wally had no idea what kind of relationship Luthor and Tala had. It was either play along or get killed. Wally might feel guilty about it, but I doubt that Tala gave it much thought other than, "Huh..." The creative team has kind of set her up as a bit of a superhuman groupie, so Wally would be another notch on her belt.

[Crow]

MM, I haven't seen any of those examples you've given but are you also referring to the scene in Face Off when Travolta and Allen go to bed and Allen's character doesn't realise Travolta - at that point in the movie - is the murderer of her child in disguise as her husband?

[Trevor Balena]

the team sidestepped the issue with, "But she really enjoyed it," with an added, "She's a villain and kind of a slut anyway and she initiated it."

Frankly, I hadn't thought about it the way you have, andt now that you point it out, it is a little disturbing.


But, not only did Tala enjoy it, she was also disappointed at the end when the real Lex was back. She prefers Wally to Lex, which makes it easier to swallow in my opinion. Okay, that sentence ended in an icky-bad place.

I know that the whole issue of consent still ranckles, but by the end she seemed be developing a real connection to Wally -- played for humour thought it was.

[Wade Kruse]

Okay, what the hell?! Wally RAPED Tala now? What in the world are you peope talking about?

[Merlin Missy]

Frankly, I hadn't thought about it the way you have, andt now that you point it out, it is a little disturbing.

See?



But, not only did Tala enjoy it, she was also disappointed at the end when the real Lex was back. She prefers Wally to Lex, which makes it easier to swallow in my opinion. Okay, that sentence ended in an icky-bad place.


As I said, that's the standard sidestep for this kind of situation in fiction. In the examples I gave (except Riley) the one who didn't know vastly preferred the company of the surprise participant.

Crow, I haven't seen Face-Off and from that description, I really don't want to. But it sounds similar.


The creative team has kind of set her up as a bit of a superhuman groupie, so Wally would be another notch on her belt.

And again, that's another part of the sidestep (and why I'm not as freaked out as I probably should be). But the very simple question is, would she have slept with him had she known it was Wally? If not, then it doesn't matter how happy she is about it later, nor whether Wally's cover would have been blown had he not gone through with it. Believe me, I'm happy for the character that she isn't apparently bothered by what happened, but that doesn't change that it was a case of uninformed consent, and Wally knew she didn't know, and that says something about his character I really don't like, played for humor or not.

Which is why I brought it up.
MM

[airfighter]

Anyway, I'm just curious as to how many people who saw the episode noticed and/or were squicked by the part where Wally raped Tala.

Hmmm...I actually thought (and still tend to think) it was the opposite way around (T did W-L), if anything, taking into consideration the circumstances and the respective attitudes of each of those involved. Don't really see Wally as being too pro-active there, for starters.


And again, that's another part of the sidestep (and why I'm not as freaked out as I probably should be). But the very simple question is, would she have slept with him had she known it was Wally? If not, then it doesn't matter how happy she is about it later, nor whether Wally's cover would have been blown had he not gone through with it. Believe me, I'm happy for the character that she isn't apparently bothered by what happened, but that doesn't change that it was a case of uninformed consent, and Wally knew she didn't know, and that says something about his character I really don't like, played for humor or not.
Well, that's your opinion and it's a valid one. But I guess that's using too much real life logic (and that belonging to an specific country/legal system too, but that's another matter and discussing it at length would be OT. Suffice to say that the conceptions of sex, rape and consent with their implications are not universal even in the western world) when dealing with an entirely fictional situation with rather different standards and several artificial factors involved.

[Karkull]

Believe me, I'm happy for the character that she isn't apparently bothered by what happened, but that doesn't change that it was a case of uninformed consent, and Wally knew she didn't know, and that says something about his character I really don't like, played for humor or not.When you think about it, it's really one of those things that may take awhile to sink in. If Tala was attracted to Lex physically, it really doesn't matter. If she's attracted to his mind, then you might be onto something. If she really cares one way or another who it was, it might be one of those things that would have to play out over a period of time as she searches her feelings (which we unfortunately won't be privy to, what with the show ending and all). Maybe they'll refer back to it in the series finale, if Tala and the Flash happen to cross paths.

[Gorthaur]

Believe me, I'm happy for the character that she isn't apparently bothered by what happened, but that doesn't change that it was a case of uninformed consent, and Wally knew she didn't know, and that says something about his character I really don't like, played for humor or not.You have a point there, although I don't think it's quite as cut-and-dry as that. After all, it was Tala who initiated the encounter on Wally, who not only seemed passive, but was also in an extremely vulnerable position at the time. A case could even be made that she unknowingly raped him.

So it's a bit of a grey area to me, though I have to say I was surprised that he actually went along with it.

[Hero Supreme]

Does anyone else think that if Luthor can gain control of the League through their com links that using this skill just to have the women fight in Meta brawl was a waste? He could have used the comlink control plan for something bigger.

... like making them fly into the sun?:D

[Merlin Missy]

Hmmm...I actually thought (and still tend to think) it was the opposite way around (T did W-L), if anything, taking into consideration the circumstances and the respective attitudes of each of those involved. Don't really see Wally as being too pro-active there, for starters.

And yet, he could have said, "No," could have said, "I, Lex Luthor, order you to ... go make me a sandwich!" There are a number of possibilities for his choice in actions. (And as was pointed out earlier, maybe he did choose the route of playing an enthusiastic game of Scrabble instead.) But that's not what we're being led to believe.



Well, that's your opinion and it's a valid one. But I guess that's using too much real life logic (and that belonging to an specific country/legal system too, but that's another matter and discussing it at length would be OT. Suffice to say that the conceptions of sex, rape and consent with their implications are not universal even in the western world) when dealing with an entirely fictional situation with rather different standards and several artificial factors involved.

Yes, and the reason I'm using it is because Wally West has in fact been raised in the specific country and legal system where this is relevant. More to the point, he's a superhero, and he's supposed to be the one who helps the regular authorities enforce both social and legal codes because that's what he does. A lot of the text in this show has been about holding the League to a higher standard because of who they are. And regarding artificial factors, I'm going to guess you mean the body-switching. So take it elsewhere: what if Wally instead was disguised in, say, Devil Ray's costume and a similar situation occurred? Heck, what if the lights were just off? I understand that you're saying this is not a universal concept of rape. I'm saying, Wally has the same cultural background as I do, and if he doesn't recognize what he did for what it was, then that's a problem with the character.


Maybe they'll refer back to it in the series finale, if Tala and the Flash happen to cross paths.

Betcha a cookie it's going to be along the lines of Tala being flirty with him and/or helping him in a crunch, if it is addressed at all.

MM:)

[EJill34]

Betcha a cookie it's going to be along the lines of Tala being flirty with him and/or helping him in a crunch, if it is addressed at all.

Another Teen Titans parallel perhaps?

[James]

It is almost a subject worth avoiding. It's such a hypothetical scenerio there's really no basis to ground it.

I suppose the nearest thing would be sneaking into a dark cupboard with girl and doing the do with full knowledge you are not who she thinks you are.

I agree she maybe just attracted to Lex's body, but she wasn't offered that option to decide. Of course, if she was, Flash would have been found out.

Morally it wasn't sound. Flash should have found some excuse rather than just falling for her charms so easily. It wasn't the best call, but as morality goes he knew he was indulging on a whim when she was unaware of his real identity.

Morally a mixed bag, practically as a life/death scenerio Wally was in, very complicated. Of course he didn't have to enjoy it so much.. ;)

Nevertheless, it was a scene played for fun where she wasn't seduced (and thereby making it very morally indecent) and a comic way of showing how a person's character is more than just what you see in a face.. I don't think it should be rationalised too much... I think there are places some fans shouldn't go... ;)

[Karkull]

Another Teen Titans parallel perhaps?Man, them animated Flashes sure love those pasty goth chicks but, hey, who doesn't?

;)

[James]

A mixed bag. It was a gallant ending and one I utterly respect (and whether this feeds into LOS or not, it was a worthy finale for Kara for her role in JLU).

As for the story itself, I found my interest was wavering. It must have been a hard write; to create a 30 minute show which gave a decent taste of LOS without having any characters that casual viewers would connect with. Arrow's role was solid and while not particularly spotlighted he was enjoyable to watch and as cool as ever.

The Brainiac/Kara thing was the weakest element of the episode. It had all been done before. Granted it lead to a great ending, but it was too formulaic and scifi cliched (the higher being being far too superior for things like "Love".

As I said, the ending made up for it IMO. The fights were okay, I didn't think they had the kick as last episode, and there were a lot of them in this story. Too much maybe.

So overall, I think it was a tough script to write and the end result won't disgrace the show, but I certainly wasn't gripped as I hoped.

Next week seems to be one for those GL/HG/HM/V fans... I look forward to it.

[bobspoland]

RIGHT...back on topic. So "Far From Home" I have mixed feelings on this. It wasnt great, wasn't bad ethier. Another average episode from a average season so far!

So a quick recap. It's supergirl 21st brithday, she's training with GL with superman and green arrow watching over. Thousend years in the future Brainaic 5 and Bouncing Boy discuss bringing heros from the past to help them fight the Fatal Five as some of the Legion of Superheros have been captured. So GL, GA and supergirl are transported to the future to help. Kara attacks Brainaic 5 thinking he's Brainaic. Bouncing boy also makes a referance to GL being the father of the great "warhawk" The Fatal Five attack and capture GL. Meanwhile Kara and Brainaic 5 become romanicatily involed while they go and save the day with GA. Fight ensures, Supergirl wins the day for them. Finishes with Supergirl deciding to stay with brainaic 5 and the legion of superheros. And the end GL and GA returning with a message for superman. Tell him she met a boy...Superman asks GL and GA "so this boy what's his name?"

Right preview time
WOOOOOOO vixen, hawkgirl, green lathern, hawkman, shadow theif and i think it's Gentleman Ghost am not sure to be honest. However it looks like Gentleman Ghost might be vixen, could be wrong so don't quote me. There fighting with GL and SF, hawkgirl looking really mad as well. So i don't know what going to happen here, so am still wondering if what i said in a earlier post that hawkman will try and kill Shayera and GL will save the day. Will it actually happen?

[Knight]

Well Supergirl is gone :( . Theres the end of her storyline.

The League has lost some heavy hitters this season. J'onn's left and now Kara has as well.

[Queen Spinniker]

Um. SINCE WHEN DID WALLY RAPE TALA?

Like, did I see an editted version of "The Great Brain Robbery?"

[James]

Um. SINCE WHEN DID WALLY RAPE TALA?

Like, did I see an editted version of "The Great Brain Robbery?"

To clarify; Wally committed a sexual act with Tala without her knowledge he was not the person she was consenting with. So the debate was about whether non consenting sexual activity (for that is what happened - despite the fact in the long run she seemed to prefer it to whatever Lex did) is in this case an act of defined rape.

It was a philosophical question since it was a situation beyond social law and, well, physical law too I guess. Beyond that, it's also just a cartoon. It was a joke scene which fans, being fans, like to converse about maturely. If you can't do that without moderators having to edit your posts maybe you should avoid posts on the question.

Let's move on...

[Queen Spinniker]

Regardless, they didn't even have sex. It's not even close to what Wally's character is.

And that debate is so ubsurd that I'm offended.

And don't you dare tell me to move on.

[Stu]

Supergirl staying in the future was so predicatable and her romance with Braniac 5 was laughable. It wasn't a terrible episode by any means (God bless Green Arrow) but this isn't a high point the in series, not in the slightest.

[James]

Regardless, they didn't even have sex. It's not even close to what Wally's character is.

And that debate is so ubsurd that I'm offended.

And don't you dare tell me to move on.

I'm a moderator it's my job when to tell members when to move on.

On topic, there is a straight implication that there was sexual activity in "The Great Brain Robbery". If you look through the thread there is even a sly wink from Bruce Timm. You may not like the idea, or agree with the possibility - that's fine. This is a kids cartoon and naturally there is an ambiguity with all sexual scenes. You don't have to see it that way, but you can lose the attitude with those members who have had a mature discussion about the implication.

So as I said, let's move on - you've made your point, no one is going to tell you what you believe is utterly wrong, just a different persective. Cool down and we'll all chat about another episode.

[S.C.B]

Y'know... the Jinx/Tala parallel didn't really hit me until now. But, you know... Wally is a young guy - he'll make mistakes. I know I sure as hell do, all the time. It's regrettable that we probably won't hear any more on the subject (though a quick exchange in the finale would be great) of Wally's feelings towards the whole thing.

As for the episode at hand:

It wasn't great, but Green Arrow made it fun. I felt Supergirl's goodbye could have been more emotional; it seemed very sudden. And I didn't like how 'love' was bandied about here. We didn't see any growth of Brainiac 5's feeling for Kara, or vice versa; we just know that Kara thought that Brainiac was attractive.

And the comment about Kara being used to technology far more advanced to Earth... It sounded as though it was attached to give Supergirl's leaving more credibility, though we've never seen any indication of her feeling this way at any point in JLU or S:TAS (except perhaps her very first appearance in 'Little Girl Lost').

Though the last scene was fun. I can see Supes going into denial after they tell him.

And I hope to God the next episode resolves the whole V/GL/HG/HM issue.

Kind of hard to believe the whole thing'll be wrapping up soon.

[Crimson]

"Grudge Match" was highly enjoyable episode, and the best entry of JLU in quite a while. Not a lot of depth, but when the action is this fast and fun I'm not complaining.

Kind of strange, though that Lex and/or the LoD are able to take control of Leaguers, including one of the most powerful members ... and the best idea they have is to stage metabrawls. Umm, guys ... you could have conquered the world.

4 out of 5 stars

[Dens Maris]

Y'know, come to think of it, why do all the superheroes of the future have much, much lamer costumes than the superheroes of the past?

[Jazzie]

And yet, he could have said, "No," could have said, "I, Lex Luthor, order you to ... go make me a sandwich!"


Yes, and the reason I'm using it is because Wally West has in fact been raised in the specific country and legal system where this is relevant. More to the point, he's a superhero, and he's supposed to be the one who helps the regular authorities enforce both social and legal codes because that's what he does. A lot of the text in this show has been about holding the League to a higher standard because of who they are. And regarding artificial factors, I'm going to guess you mean the body-switching. So take it elsewhere: what if Wally instead was disguised in, say, Devil Ray's costume and a similar situation occurred? Heck, what if the lights were just off? I understand that you're saying this is not a universal concept of rape. I'm saying, Wally has the same cultural background as I do, and if he doesn't recognize what he did for what it was, then that's a problem with the character.



Betcha a cookie it's going to be along the lines of Tala being flirty with him and/or helping him in a crunch, if it is addressed at all.

MM:)



There are some good points being made...

[Starba]

Also, is this Catman?
http://www.jlcentral.net/images/grudgematch/grudgematch015.jpg

After seeing him in Villains United with a similar look, I'm almost positive that's Catman.

(continue on ;))

[Knight]

After seeing him in Villains United with a similar look, I'm almost positive that's Catman.

(continue on ;))

Yeah Id say that is Catman. I really liked Catmans character in Villains United. It was a good book and is well worth the read.

[Hero Supreme]

There are some good points being made...

ahh, but what is your take on mercy killing?

[BigFatHairyDeal]

I'm surprised people thought Wally was the guilty party. As far as I'm concerned, Tala's the guilty party. She's the initiator, and as far as I could tell from the scene alone, Flash didn't want it. Reverse the gender roles and see how that conversation takes flight.

Anyway, about the latest episode, maybe I'm lashing back at the all the comic SG stuff, but I'm glad she's a goner. There's only so much of a sidekick I can take. Of course, if there will be an LoSH cartoons, it would make sense to have SG, especially since a new comic title based on SG and the LoSH is on its way.

[Yojimbo]

Yeah Id say that is Catman. I really liked Catmans character in Villains United. It was a good book and is well worth the read.

After looking at some images overnight, and I completely agree with Karkull that this was Hellhound, not Cat Man. The throwing knives and daggers strapped on his chest are a trademark of Hellhound. And if you want to further argue the point, we've already had a Cat Man appear on "legends". Another reason why it can not be Cat Man is because in the comics, he was Thomas Blake and stole a costume from a cat cult in the Pacific. If you recall TNBA'a "cult of the cat", their leader was Thomas Blake and their cult originated from Egypt. In closing, I firmly believe that was Hellhound.

[James]

I'm surprised people thought Wally was the guilty party. As far as I'm concerned, Tala's the guilty party. She's the initiator, and as far as I could tell from the scene alone, Flash didn't want it. Reverse the gender roles and see how that conversation takes flight.

Tala didn't know WHO she was initiating with. She presumed it was Lex. The only person who knew what was going on was Wally and for the sake of a fun scene, he went with it. If Wally didn't want it, he couldn't have done it.. if you see where I'm going and as I recall, whatever he did, was different for her.. I remember getting the impression it was in a positive way.. correct me if I'm wrong - I only saw the episode once!

To be honest, I don't think he NEEDS defense. He's not the moral role model of the league. Not a nasty guy or a deceitful one, but very impetuous and short sighted (Eclipse is an example of the latter). He probably didn't think anything of it - like most people here. Of course, that doesn't make it right morally, but it does keep it in character.

[Starba]

After looking at some images overnight, and I completely agree with Karkull that this was Hellhound, not Cat Man. The throwing knives and daggers strapped on his chest are a trademark of Hellhound. And if you want to further argue the point, we've already had a Cat Man appear on "legends". Another reason why it can not be Cat Man is because in the comics, he was Thomas Blake and stole a costume from a cat cult in the Pacific. If you recall TNBA'a "cult of the cat", their leader was Thomas Blake and their cult originated from Egypt. In closing, I firmly believe that was Hellhound.

The only time I've ever seen Hellhound is in the most recent Birds of Prey arc, (in which he has no actual throwing knives and has a pink, purple, and blue costume with some gold bling...what's more because of the dark coloring in my comic he looks African American) so I'll admit that the only reason I think it's Catman is because of the color of his outfit. And to think I had been thinking that, when presented with a choice, the DCAU chose the loudest costumes for Legion members. ^_^

Maybe when you're that far down the alphabetical list of coolness, two D list comics villains count for one hybrid C list JLU one. :evil:

http://comixtreme.com/gallery/data/media/20/VillainsUnited5.jpg

http://www.herorealm.com/DC_December05/DCU/BirdsOfPreyCv89-01.jpg

[BigFatHairyDeal]

In STAS, wasn't there a huge statue of Superman in home town of the LoSH, or am I confusing that with the comics? It would've been nice to see that, though I suppose if Superman were idolized in the 30th Century, Supergirl would still be his "just his kid cousin."

Remember all the talk about missing hour long episodes? For this particular story to work, it needed more than 30 minutes to flesh out the attraction between Brainiac 5 and Supergirl.

[Gorthaur]

If Wally didn't want it, he couldn't have done it.. if you see where I'm goingThat's assuming that biological responses to physical stimuli equal consent, which isn't necessarily the case. They can take place regardless of will.

It's Tala's comments about his... performance that seem more the more damning testament to Wally's ethics. You aren't usually enthusiastic about doing something you dislike.

[DrBravo2]

Was that a death of Supergirl homage after she got beaten up and GL was holding her?

[Indefatigable]

Was that a death of Supergirl homage after she got beaten up and GL was holding her?Very much so.

[Bic]

"Why doesn't Lex just order the League into the sun or get rid of them by other means through the comlink cotrol scheme?" (Not an exact quote.)

I see many people comment about this possible plot hole, while I do not see it as a plot hole at all. It seems that most have forgotten what the Legion of Doom is all about. If you take away the loud costumes, reverse speech, and hairy palms, the LoD was founded as a protection racket from the JLU. Each member of the LoD has to pay a fee for thier protection (possibly a portion of thier heists). It's a business and Lex knows this. Remember, he is first and foremost a business man. The JLU is the 'insurance policy' needed to kept the LoD founded and the members under control.
If Lex did order all the JLU to slaughter, then the LoD would be no longer needed. Lex needs the League to keep his 'minions' in line.

At least that's my take on it. :D

(I hope that made sense.)

Far From Home:
Yay, the Legion!!! Emerald Empress!!! and voiced by Joanne Whalley!! That's two and a half Twinkies out of five right there! :nurse:

I wanted love this episode, I really did. Instead I like it, but it could have been so much better. One reason is that it's not the same Legion of Superheroes from 'New Kids in Town' (which is my favorite StAS episode). Sadly, the score here also doesn't live up to that episode as well. The CG I found distracting (it could be a framerate issue due to my digital copy, so I can't really fault that with out seeing it on DVD), and while I do know about the history of Brainiac 5 and Kara, it was too sudden to proclaim from Kara's side. Also Superman's model seemed off in some shots as well.

Again here is another episode where a lot of fight scenes are used but they were not as dynamic as previous episodes were. This is probably due to the high level of action choreography set by directors Joaquim Dos Santos and Curt Geda. Dan Riba is a good storyteller, but does not quite meet those standards. However, I must note that he has improved as these action scenes were vastly superior to those in 'Fearful Symmetry'.

We really didn't get to see much of the Legion outside of the fight scenes, which is understandable given the 20:16min of this 30 minute episode (its actually 21:44min for the episode but the 1:28min for the intro and outro does not count as story). This episode needed more time to really tell it's story. 'It hit the right notes, but did not play the melody' as my Dad always says.

What was good, was the character interaction between GL and Kara, and most noticeably GA and Kara. Kara has learned from her fight with Galatea from last episode and using some of that in her fighting style in this one. As always the voices were good.

Overall the episode needed more time to tell the story properly, I believe that would have given us a great sawn song for Kara. "Far From Home" gets 3.5 Twinkies out of five.

[Revelator]

If the JLU team had known they'd be getting another 13 episodes to work with, as they did in the case of JLU's first season, they might have been freer to make 'Far From Home' a two-parter, instead of awkwardly slotting it amidst the Legion of Doom arc. The working title of 'Supergirl and the Legion' was wisely changed, since we don't see much of the Legion beyond Braniac 5 and Bouncing Boy. This is one of those episodes that flits by so fast you don't get much of an impression of it.
The love between Brainiac 5 and Supergirl doesn't really work because we don't really get a sense of why those two are attracted to each other. Brainy's biggest drawing point in Supergirl's eyes seems to be that he's cute. And about five seconds after the two meet we're already getting semaphore signals about how in love they both are--it's conveyed with all the subtlety of an oncoming semi. We keep getting told how in love they are, to reassure us that Supergirl will be happy in the future, but we're never shown that in a non-generic way. In The Searchers John Ford could show that John Wayne's sister-in-law was in love with him by showing her holding and devotedly stroking his discarded coat before she hung it, and an insightful little gesture like that might have worked wonders. And wouldn't it have better to have visually suggested the love between Kara and Brainy, leaving the viewer to infer it, and saving any utterance of the L-word until the very end, when Supergirl explains why she's staying behind? Instead it's immediately foregrounded just so we can get some jokes about how a 12th level intellect is embrassed by emotions.
I'm always happy to see Paul Dini's name pop up, and the warm humor in the dialogue seems his. He gave Supergirl a fine send-off, even if the time constraints over-compacted the episode.

[Knight]

After looking at some images overnight, and I completely agree with Karkull that this was Hellhound, not Cat Man. The throwing knives and daggers strapped on his chest are a trademark of Hellhound. And if you want to further argue the point, we've already had a Cat Man appear on "legends". Another reason why it can not be Cat Man is because in the comics, he was Thomas Blake and stole a costume from a cat cult in the Pacific. If you recall TNBA'a "cult of the cat", their leader was Thomas Blake and their cult originated from Egypt. In closing, I firmly believe that was Hellhound.

Yeah the coustume looks more Hellhound but the color scheme is all Catman. Odd.

[Juu-kuchi]

Wow. After some rather entertaining episodes this was rather average at best. Things could have been so much better. This could have been a nice exposition to the Legion of Superheroes, but it wasn't. The love story was rather forced and awkward, and I wished that the story had been done in a better fashion. Although it is sad to see Supergirl go, it's a pity that it had to be done on a rather average episode that didn't hit its mark.

Is it just me or does the Legion of Superheroes seem more or less to be a group of Teen Titans... IN THE FUTURE!? Also, who were the Fatal Five? All this talk about how Fatal they are and all we get is Fire in a British accent and regal dress, a floating green eye, some silver guy with a stick, a half man/cyborg, some guy that can shoot fire, and some monster with a brain.

[bobspoland]

After watching this again, am actually disappointed; and I’m starting to feel this way about the season as a whole. I've actually only really enjoyed one episode so far and that’s "Shadow of the Hawk" and "Dead Reckoning" was good until the shock wore off. However it will all be worth it if the next three episodes are fab. Hopefully we will see Shayera and GL back together and the return of Darksied.

So back to "Far From Home" It was rushed, wasn't really much of a back-story. O and Supergirl and Brainiac 5 are an item after what 20mins? What was the point of Green Arrow being there? Supergirl animation was off at points as well. Maybe am just used to her being in white and looking younger. It wasn't a good ending ethier, where’s the emotion? I was excepting myself to be in tears but it never happen. I enjoyed the moment with Warhawk about to be mention, I think GL now knows he and Shayera will end up with each other.

One hope is that if "The Legion of Superheroes" does get made, PLEASE let Supergirl be in it.

Looking at the previews again
It looks like Vixen and GL fight Shadow Thief inside his Flat. Seriously though if John and Shayera don't get back together this season would have been a waste. All I need is a kiss :)

[Gorthaur]

I agree that this episode, more than perhaps any other so far, needed to have been a two-parter to really work. Which is a shame, given that it had so much potential and that I had such high expectations for Paul Dini's last contribution to the DCAU.

Not to say "Far From Home" was a complete letdown, and I attribute its shortcomings more to the limitations of the format than Mr. Dini or anyone else involved in the scripting, but still: what could've been a very much emotional and touching send-off to a long-standing character turned out instead as an entertaining, but rather superficial, twenty minutes of action. I can't help but to feel a tad frustrated by it.

[Revelator]

Of course, the other honking big issue around "Far From Home" is what relation it has to the upcoming Legion animated series. Is it a try-out in the same sense that "The Call" was a try-out for Justice League? Or is it simply an attempt by Timm and company to do a Legion story, and has nothing to do with an upcoming series that may not even feature DCAU staff? At this point, there only questions, and answers await...in the future.

[EJill34]

"Far From Home" was the first JLU episode I felt really needed to be a 2-parter. It was a nice entertaining episode, but none of the plotlines that were brought up received enough attention. There were some nice character bits and the action was pretty good, but for a story this important, it just didn't up to its potential.

Also, Kara's decision to stay in the future could have been much more emotional, but unfortunately, it didn't really rival "To Another Shore" or "Starcrossed."

All in all, Supergirl got a fine send-off, but the build-up could have been a lot better.

[Merlin Missy]

Quick reactions before the kids wake up:

I'm going to echo the general sentiment: too rushed for a half hour episode, and not enough build-up for the Kara/Brainiac angle to come across as anything more than a mutual case of hormones. I'll buy characters can fall in love in the course of twenty minutes of screen time, really. But both of them going, "OMG, you're cute!" (with a nice bonus of "OMG, you're smart!") isn't enough to convince me Kara's not making a rash decision for no better reason than potentially faulty historical records and a guy with a hot bod.

Bad Argonian. No biscuit.

On the brighter side, anyone else amused by the staff getting in a line about copping a feel? On the one hand, my immediate reaction was, "That'll get letters," and then reminded myself, "What, they're gonna get cancelled?" :rolleyes2 Also loved the fade to black at the end as John and Ollie try to figure out how to tell Clark who Kara's new boyfriend is.

*bids a quiet but heartfelt good-bye to yet another pet non-canonical 'ship*

And as for the previews? Eek! And yay! And did I mention eek?

MM:)

[Tien85]

I must be blind, because I can't see to find Nightwing in "Grudge Match". Could someone tell me when he appeared or maybe post a screenshot of the part in the episode where he showed up please?

[James]

I must be blind, because I can't see to find Nightwing in "Grudge Match". Could someone tell me when he appeared or maybe post a screenshot of the part in the episode where he showed up please?

There is a screenshot a few pages back. It's when we enter Bludhaven, after the establishing shot we moving left to right down a highway. He's on the building in the foreground.

[Jazzie]

However it will all be worth it if the next three episodes are fab. Hopefully we will see Shayera and GL back together and the return of Darksied.

I enjoyed the moment with Warhawk about to be mention, I think GL now knows he and Shayera will end up with each other.

One hope is that if "The Legion of Superheroes" does get made, PLEASE let Supergirl be in it.

Looking at the previews again
It looks like Vixen and GL fight Shadow Thief inside his Flat. Seriously though if John and Shayera don't get back together this season would have been a waste. All I need is a kiss :)



I didn't think John and Shayera would get back together this season until the near-Warhawk mention. If they can rush SG and B-5 together they can do this.

[EJill34]

I think my favorite aspect of "Far From Home" was the music. From start to finish, it was easily one of JLU's finest scores.

[A.J]

Well, i just watched this episode (Far from home) and all I gotta say is I LOVED IT! LOVED IT! OMG I cant describe my feelings towards the end. Action, fun, drama and an awesome future for Kara! I didnt feel rushed this episode at all. When you like somebody you just act they way Kara and Brainiac 5 acted. You follow your feelings and thats it. Just like Ollie said to Clark Kara was kind of trapped in the JLU era and the Legions era offered just what she needed. The music, the fights, the animation and the plot. My kudos to Paul Dini because this episode contained everything. One of my favorites from JLU really. I so understand what b.t meant when he said they wanted this season to be fun and crazy! Awesome!

Now, bring on ANCIENT HISTORY!!! :D

EDIT: This episode clearly was made for SUPERGIRL. Not the LOSH, nor Brainiac, nor Superman. SUPERGIRL.

[Dapo]

This was crap! and I am a big LOSH fan. Very rushed and the fight scenes paled in comparison to Grudge Match.

The love between Brainiac and Supergirl came out of nowhere!

I did like the reluctance of GL and GA to tell Superman the name of SG's beau.

[Karkull]

How did the Fatal Five fare? Nobody's talked too much about them yet.

[neogothboy74]

My unorganized views on JLU Season 3.

I saw this mentioned by someone else, but season 3 of JLU also reminds me of Season 1. I haven't hated a single episode, but almost every other episode for awhile was nothing special. I enjoyed "Shadow Of The Hawk", "To Another Shore", "Dead Reckoning", "The Great Brain Robbery" & "Grudge Match" a great deal. "I Am Legion", "Flash & Substance" & "Far From Home" I liked slightly less, with all three having a lot of potential, but leaving me with the feeling that they were rushed. I loved seeing the Legion in "Far From Home", and I enjoyed the attraction between Brainy & Kara, but I wish they would have left it as an obvious attraction thing, rather than bring the LOVE word into it, which more than anything gave the episode that 'rushed' feel. The whole scene with GL telling Brainy that Brainy loves Kara just seems wrong. It would have worked better if they explained that Brainy had a fascination with Kara before he met her, or if there was some dialogue demonstrating that something extraordinary was happening between them that everyone could agree was strange but that it somehow felt right to them - that way at least the characters would have at least acknowledged that the situation seemed forced, even if it wasn't. I loved Supergirl risking her life to save the planet! Also loved the near mention of GL's offspring, and GL/GR hesitating to tell Supes about the Brainiac 5. "Chaos at the Earth's Core" I liked a bit better when watching it recently, but except for the Supergirl groupies, it didn't amuse or entertain me overly much. I loved the idea of "Patriot Act", but I didn't love the creature Eilling turned into; he just looked really stupid, and there was no closure at the end of the episode, so hopefully it ties into the end in some way. I thought the kid using the wrecking ball in that same episode was horrible, but that they could have fixed it with a line saying that his dad showed him how, or something; or better yet - just let one of the powerless superheroes do it instead. I was excited to see Eilling & Waller; I just wish their episode could have been better. And it left me aching for a Prof. Hamilton scene; I've often wondered what became of him after the "death" of his "daughter" (Galatea); though I'm of the mind that she didn't die. I've heard a lot of people complain about Diana's Wonder Woman Spin in "To Another Shore" but I just assumed this was one of the extra armor perks that she learned of in "The Balance" - and besides that, the image made me cheer, almost as loudly as when Nightwing popped up in Bludhaven! The reason all that reminds me of Season 1 JLU is that season 1 of JLU didn't completely rock my socks off either, though many of the episodes I didn't love gained points later on, as every single episode could be tied into the Cadmus Arc in some way, which I felt was a worthy followup to Season 2 of Justice League. Seasons 1 & 2 of JLU feel like a single season of Justice Leauge to me - a 3rd Season. In many ways, the 3rd season of JLU, with no season 4 to complete it, feels incomplete, as if we're only getting half a season, and these final 13 episodes are just bonus adventures to be stowed away between "Divided We Fall" & "Epilogue". I'm not complaining; I'll take whatever DCAU projects I can get my hands on; I'm just saying that, for me, the season is a bit odd. Perhaps this will change after the final 3 episodes are viewed? I'm not sure.

Anyone who is avoiding info on the episodes before they air should skip the rest of this post - but it's not like I know what's going to happen - it's just my views based on the loglines.

About the final 3 episodes; I'm dying to see "Ancient History"; I'm a huge John Stewart/Shayera shipper - the idea of them being Warhawk's parents is just too cool for words and I want them back together before the series ends. I love Vixen (and Gina Torres) but GL belongs with Hawkgirl, and Vixen deserves to be with someone who isn't split in their affections where she's concerned. I'm also one of the few, apparently, who enjoyed the WW/Batman Thing, and I noticed the nod to it in "Dead Reckoning" with WW looking very downbeat about Bats turning down time with her & Superman out of work, but I'd still like a closing scene for them, however unlikely that is.

I'm excited to see the final 2-parter, and originally jumped at ideas of the "power moving behind the scenes", but remembering all the misleadling loglines from the past, until the episodes air, I'm just gonna assume this is a reference to Brainiac; I mean, we know that he's in Luthor's head, but nobody else on the show does - and the continuing efforts of Luthor to bring him back from that last piece have been central to Luthor's plans since the season began. I hope this possibly final farewell is as entertaining & worthy as it's predecessors. I thought that "The Savage Time" 3-parter was the best story of the 1st Season. "Starcrossed" ended Justice League so well, that I couldn't believe that they could top it, and perhaps they never have - but The Cadmus arc, and especially the last 5 episodes of Season 2 JLU were filled with so many different surprises, and jammed to the brim with continuity porn, that I reallly felt they had at least ended JLU as well as they had Justice League. "The Once & Future Thing" feels like a mid season 2 parter to me, though it was a mid season 2 parter that left my jaw on the floor - and was entertaining. I'm hoping for something at least as good as that 2 part ending to season 1 JLU in these final 2 episodes. I'd like to see Waller & Agent Faraday in the finale as well.

On a side note (as if this post isn't full of them already) - if the LOSH series ever comes into being, and it's some kind of continuation of "Far From Home" - that would be awesome! And I'm really looking forward to seeing "New Kids In Town" on dvd, whenever the 3rd Superman Boxed Set arrives.

Lastly, forgive me my incoherant rambling; I'm a rambler. Plus I'm a rambler on pain killer, with a swollen eyelid who's squinting at his screen trying to rave about JLU.

So...do we have dates for the final 3 episode airings in the UK?

Bald Jason

[Stu]

I did like the reluctance of GL and GA to tell Superman the name of SG's beau.

That was my favourite part of the episode, without a doubt. I found this episode lacked the usual wit found in Dini's scripts, I can't tell if he was having an off day or because he was writing from someone else's story, but this seemed to rely on a lot of cliches, not usually found in Dini's work.

Considering how good the romances have been in this show, I can't help but feel Supergirl/Brainiac 5 was utterly dissapointing.

Is anyone else here finding it so refreshing to watch an episode and not know the slightest thing that's going to happen before it does? I didn't even know that Huntress was going to appear again before Grudge Match aired, and to have Black Canary and The Question appear again was simply awesome! I love these surprises, I've avoided those log lines like the plague.

As a cheap plug, I've been doing a little more in-depth reviews of this season for WF. I don't know how many of you visit the site, but the list can be found here. (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/jlu/episodes/)

[J-Ranger]

I just saw Far From Home and it was a decent episode but I think my favourite part of it was the music, it was so beautiful. It made the epsiode feel epic. And it really felt like a Paul Dini script especially the last line in the episode.

[Doomsday]

I think this episode is better than what others are thinking of it, not great but thats b/c it was rushed. Its to bad theres not enough episodes to make it a 2 parter, should of got rid of Chaos in the central of the Earth for this. The true disappointment is that I was hoping for something great, its by Dini so you think it would be... but its not. Better then Grudge Match in my opinion, to much fighting in that episode and the plot was weaker than this episode. That aside thats view the points.

- rushed, started really when they get attacked for the first time by the eye thing
- fighting wasn't the best
- love scenes wasn't developed the best it could be
- villains weren't developed enough and no reason given for attacking the united planets, w/e that is. Guess being bad guys is a good enough reason
- cg sucks
+ nice music
+ beginning and end is great, definitely a nice a way end Supergirls arc
+ supergirl fighting even knowing she will problly die, shows true bravery there
+ i like brainiac 5, a nice interesting character
+ great dialogue
+ GA owned throughout the episode
Overall not a bad episode, could be better but just be happy with what you got. I won't mind seeing a Supergirl and the Legion of Superheros now, im not big on the name though. Bring on the final 3 episodes of jlu:sad: ... I hope they are all amazing episodes.

[Knight]

I enjoyed Far from Home and im not even a Legion of Superheroes fan. As far as the Fatal Five I was surprised at how easily Supergirl was able to hurt Validus. He's supposed to be very strong and higly invulnerable and he had a hole punched right through him.

Im glad GL and GA were in the ep. Olllie has been like a uncle to Supergirl ever since he joined the League. While John has been instructing her to be a better hero.

The one disappointing thing about the episode to me was the Superman aspect. We havent seen much interaction between him and Kara for a long time and here it is no different.

[TheWonderTwits]

You know what's odd? the reviewers on AICN panned the other 3, or were pretty harsh (again, IMHO), while they gave 'Far from home' 5 stars. I kinda thought 'Far from home' was really "ok." Cool moments were GA, obviously, and the mention of her changing her costume to look more like Supes..

was just "ok" IMHO. I *loved* Grudge Match and Flash, Great Brain Robbery, Patriot Act etc.... so this one was kinda... 'ok'

:cool:

[MilkManX]

I declare another fine episode of JLU. So far this season has been great. 3 episodes left to go.


The begining was kinda limp but as we got into the plot with that great music I was hooked. Arrow was great as always and the ending was great.

I am looking forward now to a LEGION show. If Murakami is on it and it is as fun as this episode was it will be a good show.

[Zergrinch]

Owing to the events in Grudge Match, I think we can safely say Luthor and Grodd did not switch minds at the end of The Great Brain Robbery. Pity, it would have been a hell of a plot twist :D

Tala seems to be drawn to whoever is in power at the new Society. Makes me wonder whether or not she's actually a Mata Hari type mole under the employ of Agent Faraday or Amanda Waller...

[PeterFries]

Man, I loved this episode, though for once I agree that this would have been better as a two parter. I also agree that the love interest between Kara and Brainy was super-rushed and actually didn't need to be -- a more subtle series of clues that they were interested in each other and then Kara confessing to her teammates and Kal that she was staying in the future to see how it turned out would have been better. Still, as a childhood fan of the version of the Legion featured in this episode (what were they, like three reboots ago, now?) this was a home run for me and I loved every minute of it. I remember being so excited as a kid when Green Arrow showed up in the first season of Superfriends, just to see a second-string hero I loved get featured on a cartoon episode that no one remembers anymore -- compared to that, this was grand opera.

Someone started a thread here recently asking who the protagonist of JLU was -- a good argument could be made that it was Kara. She's initiated by GL at the beginning of the series, is betrayed by a close confidant who uses her as a weapon, fights her evil nature, grows up in the "Chaos at the Earth's Core" episode and shows how she's matured (as compared to the bratty Stargirl in that story) and now moves on. This episode was more about the relationships she had with Superman and her mentor Green Lantern throughout the series, and it was a nice end/new beginning for her character arc.

Am I just getting old and forgetful, or is this the first time we've heard her definitively (if figuratively?) talked about by Superman as a 'cousin'? I loved the last scene, with her goodbye message to her big brother figure, father figure and friend Green Arrow, who joined the league with her. Wow. In a way, this would have been a fine final episode of the series for me.

I kind of hope the rumors we've heard that the LoSH series won't tie in to JLU and S:TAS are wrong -- as a launch point for a spinoff, this was great. Someone else pointed out that Darkseid could return in the future. Superman could be brought in to help out as a guest star. Vandal Savage could turn up. And we could even get sly references to the Batman Beyond era. I'd love to see that.

The nitpicker in me wants to point out that Shadow Lass' energy powers didn't seem quite right or that Phantom Girl should have been able to go intangible and avoid Supergirl's punches, but I think I'll lock that picky jerk in the basement.

[Yojimbo]

I was checking out the screengrabs and I was wondering if anyone can help confirm or correct the LoSH roster I typed up (I never learn do I?):
Brainiac 5, Bouncing Boy, Umbra (Shadow Lass), Wildfire, Leviathan, Cosmic Boy, Saturn Girl, Livewire, Apparition, Chameleon, Timber Wolf, Ultra Boy and Blok.

[Revelator]

No Matter-Eater Lad? Heads will roll!

[Yojimbo]

Anyone got some decent know how about Blok?

[Jack Frenzy]

Anyone got some decent know how about Blok?
Blok (apparently his real name) is the last of the native mineral-based race of the planet known as either Dryad (name given by human settlers) or Korlon (named used by natives). Blok possesses great invulnerability and strength, intrinsic to his race, but possibly augmented by the Dark Man (see below).

During his childhood, the population of Dryad/Korlon was evacuated by the Legion just prior to the planet's destruction. Blok and five other orphans misunderstood what was happening and thought the Legion had destroyed their world. They were recruited by the Dark Man (a clone of Fatal Five leader Tharok) and given superpowers. As the "League of Super-Assassins" (incidentally, my first Legion comic ever), they attempted to kill the six Legionnaires that had handled the evacuation, believing that they were avenging their world. Of them, Blok was the only one who questioned their mission and when all the others were defeated, he simply surrendered.

Later, when the Dark Man attacked the Legion, Blok offered to help them in return for his freedom. He quickly befriended the Legionnaires and was made a member. His best friend was Timber Wolf, but he seemed to be attracted to White Witch.

In personality, he was very gentle and introspective.

He was originally much more humanoid in appearance, but was badly burned during a mission.

In the end, he was killed by the assassin Roxxas.

[otter]

I liked "Far from Home" quite a bit. My only gripe is that Supergirl & Brainiac seemed to fall in love awfully quick. From a writer's perspective, I can see that they needed a good reason for why Supergirl would choose to stay in the future. Not too familiar with the Legion universe but a lot of those characters look quite cool. The giant villain with the encased brain really jumped out at me. The ending was great--after the sad goodbye message I wasn't expecting the episode to end on a funny note.

Enjoyed "Grudge Match" too. Not every episode has to be thought-provoking. Sometimes you just want to watch a good old smack-down. Thought the part where Hawkgirl almost hit Vixen in the face with her mace was interesting. The long pause and stunned expressions on their faces...it's almost as if they BOTH were wondering if that was an accident.

[Krypton_Knight]

The negative reaction this one's received is a little surprising, though this might have been done better as a 2 parter: to explore the 30th Century, to more smoothly develop the romance between Kara and Brainiac-5, and to amp up the Fatal Five's threat level.

Also Kara shouldn't be punching through Validus, anymore than she should be punching through Darkseid - Validus is close to that threat level. But that's a quibble.

It's interesting that Clark and Ollie addressed each other on a first name basis. I wonder how many others in the JLU are on a first name basis with the Founding Seven?

A much better portrayal of the Legion than the one on STAS. Thanks guys.

KK

[Legionaire]

How did the Fatal Five fare? Nobody's talked too much about them yet.
Frankly, I was disappointed with the Five. Only Persuader and the Emerald Empress got much screen time. She came off the best of the bunch, powerful and imperious just as a long time fan like myself would have expected. Persuader exhibited none of the strength we've come to know, and his ax shot energy bolts (yecch). Would have loved seeing him shred Brainy's force field, or GL's, or cutting off the gravity under GA, or something. Anything.

Supergirl literally punches a hole through Validus, revealing him to be...a robot. :shrug:

Great intro shot of Tharok--seeing him from the side and only unveiling his dual nature when he turned to reveal his robot half. He also seemed in character, and the VA was good. And a nice shot of GA dodging Mano (who had two disintegrator hands) and then him falling through the floor he inadvertantly dissolves.

But overall they didn't come across as too tough.

The lack of any real interaction with most Legion members was, in the final analysis, forgivable, given the short length of the episode (I echo what others have said--this begged to be a two parter). Shady shooting energy bolts, not so much.

Being the second "mind control" episode in a row made this seem pretty contrived. But of course that gave them a reason why the other Legionaires (besides BB and Brainy) were underfeatured, unnamed, and without speaking parts. And frankly, I'm GLAD there was no M-E Lad. That was one embarassment from the 60's I could live without.

Nobody has mentioned the teaser at the beginning, but I thought it was excellent. Anyone get a count or decent screenshot of the heroes who had statues in the HQ? I only recognized Ferro Lad in the initial viewing.

As others, I loved the near mention of Warhawk and the non-mention of Kara's new boyfriend's name. And the "cop a feel" line (thank god my kids aren't old enough to understand that one, or even ask about it... :sweat:)

Ultimately, my disappointment with this episode stemmed largely from the high expectations I had for it. But if they actually do make the LoS series, and it's anything like this, I'll definitely be pumped.

[Christian Prime]

Hiya JLU:anime: Fans!

I've finished watching the episode Far From Home (with new series from Japan: Binchotan as a little first course before the main attraction!;) Flash & Substance, Dead Reckoning, Patriot Act, The Great Brain Robbery, Grudge Match Swept me off my feet again & now, with a little tear to my eye: this ep!)
All I can say is bye bye Kara!
I also agree with the music score of this ep! I loved it.
I can't wait for the next episodes to come though.

[Knight]

It's interesting that Clark and Ollie addressed each other on a first name basis. I wonder how many others in the JLU are on a first name basis with the Founding Seven?



I wondered about that as well. Ga and Supes apparently know each other a lot better than they use to. Maybe because of Kara's connection with Ollie.

[S.C.B]

I think it's just Ollie; he called Wonder Woman by her first name in 'To Another Shore' too.

Maybe they're trying to bring Green Arrow in as a psuedo replacement for J'onn? It'd be neat to see him seated with the rest of the original group in a meeting.

[Revelator]

And frankly, I'm GLAD there was no M-E Lad. That was one embarassment from the 60's I could live without.


I don't see how MELad is any more embarassing than Bouncing Boy, who's every bit as goofy in action. Anyway, my original complaint was tongue-in-cheek , and not intended as a serious criticism of the episode, though I do wish some other Legionaire had gotten the spotlight besides Tubby.

[efumf]

I also felt Far From Home was too rushed - too much action and very little of anything else. JLU can usually get away with all-action episodes, but the action scenes in this one were pretty unimaginative. This episode was also hyped for a long time as the "Dark Supergirl episode", so I was expecting something along the lines of Over the Edge from TNBA, but there wasn't anything "dark" about this episode at all. I noticed that Supergirl went off-model a few times - mostly in the chin area, and Superman's face also changed shape in his scenes.

Dini can really write Superman, and I loved Green Arrow, and Brainiac 5 was kinda cool, mostly thanks to the VA. I think this is probably the episode that finally made me like Supergirl, though I've been warming to her since her teamup with Stargirl and her new costume. Didn't get the whole love thing, though. Where did that come from?

Oh, and I loved seeing the Z-8/Zeta robots popping up again :D Put TZP on DVD already!!!

It's a shame this will likely be Paul Dini's very last outing in the DCAU. Would have certainly benefitted a ton if it were a two parter. But maybe I'll enjoy it more on third viewing.

And now that it's been revealed that Supergirl is 21 - there's no excuse for her tiny action figure, and certainly no excuse for the inevitable repaint of her tiny action figure in the new costume.

[Legionaire]

I don't see how MELad is any more embarassing than Bouncing Boy, who's every bit as goofy in action. Anyway, my original complaint was tongue-in-cheek , and not intended as a serious criticism of the episode, though I do wish some other Legionaire had gotten the spotlight besides Tubby.

Well, I'm forced to agree on all counts. I wasn't at all thrilled BB got such a large role. Though at least BB has a power that might be (with a healthy dose of belief suspension) somewhat useful in a fight.

Anybody remember the old story where he fought the son of the Hunter alone, and won by jumping in cold water, catching an instant cold, then sneezing at just the right angle to propel himself, billiard like, into a 5 cushion shot to take out the villain? Now THAT was lame. :D

[Gorthaur]

I think it's just Ollie; he called Wonder Woman by her first name in 'To Another Shore' too.Yeah, but unlike Superman's, Wonder Woman's identity is common knowledge.

[S.C.B]

I was talking more about the closeness that's implied by his calling her Diana. Most other Leaguers just call her Wonder Woman (or Princess). The fact that he could call her Diana (and get away with it) shows that Ollie has (whether intentionally or not) carved himself a niche with the original seven:

He calls Superman Clark, he sympathises with the powerless Batman, he's on the same emotional wavelength as Flash, he's on a first name basis with both J'onn and Diana, and his relationship with Kara gives him a link with GL (although I got the impression in 'Initiation' that GL and GA had met before, at least briefly).

The only one we haven't seen him interacting with is Shayera.

[efumf]

It's pretty obvious GA isn't a rookie. He's probably interacted with the original Leaguers before they recruited him (against his will!) :p

[neogothboy74]

Oh, and I loved seeing the Z-8/Zeta robots popping up again :D Put TZP on DVD already!!!

I screamed like...something that screams when they showed them again! I've never even seen The Zeta Project or his episodes of Batman Beyond, but just the idea of Justice League & JLU throwing in these little continuity points to TZP is so cool! I myself would like to see a DTV that wraps up TZP; with Zeta coming to the JLU of that era (featuring Batman & Static) for help...and it would be nice if there was an explanation for why Zeta looks different in his series than he did in his first BB appearance. ;-0) Having a bit of closure on the TZP front & more Static/BB/JLU appearances might help sales of a TZP boxed set.

I can dream, can't I?

[Gorthaur]

I was talking more about the closeness that's implied by his calling her DianaSure. Just pointing out that the degree of familiarity required to be on a first name basis with Diana or J'Onn is far smaller than in Clark's case.

[JLfan4life]

I liked this episode, but I think I would have liked it more if it was a 2 parter. I agree with others that the music was awesome!! I loved that last moment between Supes, GA and GL. I just wish the Kara/Braniac 5 relationship had a little more time to be fleshed out instead of saying the love word so fast. It felt too rushed to me as well. but it was still a good episode. Emerald Empress rocks!!

[A.J]

There is something we call OFF-SCREEN. Not everything must happen in the show for you to understand it. According to this, Im sure Brainiac 5 knew Kara way before he met her. Id bet 100$ on that.

[efumf]

Was this the first time Supergirl got her own little theme tune?

[Gorthaur]

There is something we call OFF-SCREEN. Not everything must happen in the show for you to understand it. According to this, Im sure Brainiac 5 knew Kara way before he met her. Id bet 100$ on that.As evidenced by lines such as "Kara, I don't even know you, but... history says you never return from this battle"?

[A.J]

As evidenced by lines such as "Kara, I don't even know you, but... history says you never return from this battle"?

Well, I know Sting, Madonna and lots of famous people around the world but that doesnt mean I KNOW THEM...I just´ve read & watch news about them, hear their music, etc...

Btw, why would he call her KARA instead of Supergirl?

[The Question]

I quite enjoyed this episode, it was nice that Supergirl got some focus.

Once again we saw the Green Arrow/Supergirl, big brother/little sister relationship, which I alwayed from way back in Fearful Symmetry. We also got to see Supermans's thoughts on SG living in his shadow. As i said earlier the main focus was Supergirl, so aswell as seeing Kara's "big brother" and "Cousin" we also get her mentor Green Lantern, and it seems in his eyes she doesn't need anymore training.

Anyway see also go to see the legion of Superheroes!...well two of them bouncing boy and Brainiac 5. It was interesting to see a group of heroes in the future it was more Star Trek than JLU. Now on to the Brainiac Supergirl romance, it could have worked if it wasn't so quick they did love each other.

**** 1/2 out of 5

[Gorthaur]

Well, I know Sting, Madonna and lots of famous people around the world but that doesnt mean I KNOW THEMI know of several historical personae as well, and you're right, it doesn't mean I know them - much less well enough to fall in love with them.

At best, I suppose it could be inferred that Brainiac 5 had the equivalent of a celebrity crush on Kara, but I sorta got the idea that the episode tried to suggest there was more. Which, as myself and others have said, it just didn't have the time to establish.

[A.J]

I know of several historical personae as well, and you're right, it doesn't mean I know them - much less well enough to fall in love with them.

At best, I suppose it could be inferred that Brainiac 5 had the equivalent of a celebrity crush on Kara, but I sorta got the idea that the episode tried to suggest there was more. Which, as myself and others have said, it just didn't have the time to establish.

Totally agree with you ;)

[bobspoland]

Sure. Just pointing out that the degree of familiarity required to be on a first name basis with Diana or J'Onn is far smaller than in Clark's case.

Flash seems to be on first name terms with a lot of the Justice leaguers. Dr Fate, Mr Terrific, Red Tornado where all they when GL called out his name. GA would have called him clark after kara says "I love you to Clark" Its unlikely that anyone outside of the big 7 knows who Batman is

[neogothboy74]

I don't know if this is the right place to ask this, but do we have air dates for the final 3 UK airings? Are they airing the final 2 together? If this information is somewhere else on this site, can someone direct me there? I don't want to be slammed for asking in the wrong spot, but I find this place to be a little confusing sometimes. :confused: I just want to know when they're on so I don't have to check back every couple hours to see if someone has seen the next new installment.

[A.J]

I don't know if this is the right place to ask this, but do we have air dates for the final 3 UK airings? Are they airing the final 2 together? If this information is somewhere else on this site, can someone direct me there? I don't want to be slammed for asking in the wrong spot, but I find this place to be a little confusing sometimes. :confused: I just want to know when they're on so I don't have to check back every couple hours to see if someone has seen the next new installment.

Hey buddie, I think Ancient History and Destroyer are airing next week and then Alive the week after. Just following the past air dated for the new episodes. I dont think they will air the 2 part finale together. Actually I do hope they air it in UK!

[Knight]

Flash seems to be on first name terms with a lot of the Justice leaguers. Dr Fate, Mr Terrific, Red Tornado where all they when GL called out his name. GA would have called him clark after kara says "I love you to Clark" Its unlikely that anyone outside of the big 7 knows who Batman is

You know Batman he's highly secretive about that type of thing.

[Dens Maris]

Not sure what to make of Far From Home. Great dialogue and action, especially at the beginning, but Supergirl proved she has pretty lame taste in men in this episode and falls in love with them at lightspeed to boot...and I kinda wish she had stayed in the present.

I also am reminded of why I hate time travel and its use in fulfilling destiny. This circularity hurts my head. :sweat:

Still, it's not a horrible episode...just a bit of a downer.

[Knight]

I liked how John stopped Bouncing Boy from saying Warhawk. I think John basically knows he's going to get back with Shayera at some point but at the moment he just isnt rushing it. He's basically letting the chips fall where they may.

[A.J]

Still, it's not a horrible episode...just a bit of a downer.

How weird guys! My 6 friends and I (all 25-26 years old) just watched this episode and we all loved it! I guess everybody feels different about each episode...:)

[S.C.B]

I liked how John stopped Bouncing Boy from saying Warhawk. I think John basically knows he's going to get back with Shayera at some point but at the moment he just isnt rushing it. He's basically letting the chips fall where they may.

Yeah - one of the best lines in the episode.

"You want to shut up before you create a time paradox?"

The interesting thing is that John's remembered most for being the father of Warhawk, not for simply being a great hero.

And I have a feeling he might become more proactive about Shayera in 'Ancient History'. I sincerely hope the whole relationship is resolved and not left in imagination limbo.

[Gorthaur]

How weird guys! My 6 friends and I (all 25-26 years old) just watched this episode and we all loved it! I guess everybody feels different about each episode...:)Hey, it's not like we're saying it sucks. In fact, it's still pretty friggin' good by almost any standard.

It's just that, hey, this is JLU. And after episodes like "Dead Reckoning" and "Brain Robbery," it was something of a disappointment.

[Jazzie]

Yeah - one of the best lines in the episode.

"You want to shut up before you create a time paradox?"

The interesting thing is that John's remembered most for being the father of Warhawk, not for simply being a great hero.



that was kind of cool, he's remembered because of his son'e expolits more than his. nice touch.

[Jazzie]

I think it's just Ollie; he called Wonder Woman by her first name in 'To Another Shore' too.

Maybe they're trying to bring Green Arrow in as a psuedo replacement for J'onn? It'd be neat to see him seated with the rest of the original group in a meeting.


I think Green Arrow and maybe MR Terrific and Doc Fate have an elevated status over the other newbies.

[Jazzie]

My unorganized views on JLU Season 3.



About the final 3 episodes; I'm dying to see "Ancient History"; I'm a huge John Stewart/Shayera shipper - the idea of them being Warhawk's parents is just too cool for words and I want them back together before the series ends. I love Vixen (and Gina Torres) but GL belongs with Hawkgirl, and Vixen deserves to be with someone who isn't split in their affections where she's concerned. I'm also one of the few, apparently, who enjoyed the WW/Batman Thing, and I noticed the nod to it in "Dead Reckoning" with WW looking very downbeat about Bats turning down time with her & Superman out of work, but I'd still like a closing scene for them, however unlikely that is.



GL-HG, they have to hook that back up. And I like BM-WW. They clicked.

[S.C.B]

I'm not sure that Dr Fate is even a full member of the League at the moment. At best, he comes and goes as he pleases unless there is a really big emergency (except in 'Panic in the Sky', but I may have missed him) or they need him for something specifically magic oriented.

And yeah, I kinda forgot about Mr Terrific; I guess he's J'onn's replacement in the offical capacity, but Ollie seems to be more in touch with the original seven. Something else I've noticed from watching 'Far from Home' is that Clark calls GA Ollie, just as Diana did. And I'm sure GL's called him Ollie at some point.

I guess my overall point is that Green Arrow is considered higher than a newbie member of the League; hell, he even led a team in 'Patriot Act' (though that could have been because of the JL being spread pretty thin at the time).

[John6777]

Anyword if the new Legion of Superheroes Cartoon will take place after this one? Did WB make them make this episode just ot explain somethings in the new show?

[Yojimbo]

Blok (apparently his real name) is the last of the native mineral-based race of the planet known as either Dryad (name given by human settlers) or Korlon (named used by natives). Blok possesses great invulnerability and strength, intrinsic to his race, but possibly augmented by the Dark Man (see below).

During his childhood, the population of Dryad/Korlon was evacuated by the Legion just prior to the planet's destruction. Blok and five other orphans misunderstood what was happening and thought the Legion had destroyed their world. They were recruited by the Dark Man (a clone of Fatal Five leader Tharok) and given superpowers. As the "League of Super-Assassins" (incidentally, my first Legion comic ever), they attempted to kill the six Legionnaires that had handled the evacuation, believing that they were avenging their world. Of them, Blok was the only one who questioned their mission and when all the others were defeated, he simply surrendered.

Later, when the Dark Man attacked the Legion, Blok offered to help them in return for his freedom. He quickly befriended the Legionnaires and was made a member. His best friend was Timber Wolf, but he seemed to be attracted to White Witch.

In personality, he was very gentle and introspective.

He was originally much more humanoid in appearance, but was badly burned during a mission.

In the end, he was killed by the assassin Roxxas.

Thanks. It was hard finding a bio on him since he's Pre-Crisis I think.

[PeterFries]

Thanks. It was hard finding a bio on him since he's Pre-Crisis I think.

Blok was around post-Crisis, though the Crisis had a delayed effect on the Legion and led to their being sort of like Hawkman and Supergirl -- a big continuity mess that led to several reboots of the series. The Roxxas killing of Blok thing happened during the "Five Years Later" series that was retconned out of existence two reboots ago.

[Yojimbo]

Blok was around post-Crisis, though the Crisis had a delayed effect on the Legion and led to their being sort of like Hawkman and Supergirl -- a big continuity mess that led to several reboots of the series. The Roxxas killing of Blok thing happened during the "Five Years Later" series that was retconned out of existence two reboots ago.

:sad: So I've read about Legion continuity. I was a little concerned with that, but since only a handful of members showed up in the episode, it wasn't too difficult figuring out who's who. Thanks.

[PeterFries]

Kenshi, to answer your earlier question about the LoSH roster...


Brainiac 5, Bouncing Boy, Umbra (Shadow Lass), Wildfire, Leviathan, Cosmic Boy, Saturn Girl, Livewire, Apparition, Chameleon, Timber Wolf, Ultra Boy and Blok.

Since the lineup was so close to the 1970s lineup of the team, I would have said Brainiac 5, Bouncing Boy, Shadow Lass, Wildfire, Collosal Boy, Cosmic Boy, Saturn Girl, Lightning Lad, Phantom Girl (she had the 'P' on her uniform!), Chameleon Boy, Timber Wolf, Ultra Boy and Blok. Ferro Lad was also seen briefly, in statue form, at the beginning of the episode.

Missing members from that era (or at least, not seen in the ep) would be Dream Girl, Invisible Kid (well, maybe he was there ;)), Sun Boy, Element Lad, Karate Kid, Princess Projectra, Shrinking Violet, Light Lass, Triplicate Girl, Mon-el, Dawnstar and White Witch.

Even though Cosmic Boy, Chameleon Boy and Saturn Girl looked pretty much exactly the same as they did in their S:TAS appearance in "New Kids in Town", that episode's glimpse of the rest of the Legion showed Brainiac 5, Phantom Girl, Dream Girl, Kid Quantum, Triplicate Girl and Light Lass in their outfits from the 1990s era of the Legion (Brainy had a mullet and Phantom Girl was dressed as Apparition). To make that a bit more confusing, Andromeda, the post Zero Hour Legionnaire substitute for the retconned-out-of-existence-for-a-decade-or-so Kara Zor-El Supergirl was shown in that ep.

[MR.MXYZPTLK]

Did anyone notice catman in the female metabrawl episode? I thought that was a nice touch

[neogothboy74]

Did anyone notice catman in the female metabrawl episode? I thought that was a nice touch

If you read this thread from the beginning - on page 1 or 2 Catman (or Hell Hound's) appearance is discussed. It's an interesting read; I'd never even heard of Hellhound, but it was demonstrated through the discussion & some pictures that the man in question was most likely a combining of the two - especially since Thomas Blake has already appeared in the DCAU. But I'd imagine for people who like those characters that it was a kind of insulting appearance; the 2 guys in the ring were kind of pathetic with the whole 'come here & fight me', 'no, you come here & fight me' thing. It made me laugh, but I don't know enough about those characters to take them seriously. And for my part, I thought it was Catman as well before said discussion.

[Trevor Balena]

Even though Cosmic Boy, Chameleon Boy and Saturn Girl looked pretty much exactly the same as they did in their S:TAS appearance in "New Kids in Town", that episode's glimpse of the rest of the Legion showed Brainiac 5, Phantom Girl, Dream Girl, Kid Quantum, Triplicate Girl and Light Lass in their outfits from the 1990s era of the Legion (Brainy had a mullet and Phantom Girl was dressed as Apparition). To make that a bit more confusing, Andromeda, the post Zero Hour Legionnaire substitute for the retconned-out-of-existence-for-a-decade-or-so Kara Zor-El Supergirl was shown in that ep.

The Andromeda thing doesn't really need to be explained; the average viewer -- assuming the average viewer actually thinks about these things -- would just assume that they were two completely separate superheroines.

Now here's something I've been thinking about: does the Legion's appearance here pre-date or follow their appearance in "New Kids in Town"? For instance, is Brainy younger here than when we saw him back in STAS? He certainly looks it...

[Douglas Fir]

I only just found out we were getting new episodes here in the UK - d'oh!

Anyway I've been watching re-runs all week and today I finally saw one of the new ones - "Grudge Match".

Does anyone know when to tune in to catch the new episodes and when they re-run them?

[otter]

But I'd imagine for people who like those characters that it was a kind of insulting appearance; the 2 guys in the ring were kind of pathetic with the whole 'come here & fight me', 'no, you come here & fight me' thing. It made me laugh, but I don't know enough about those characters to take them seriously. And for my part, I thought it was Catman as well before said discussion.

As someone who likes both Catman and Shatterfist, I thought that bit was hilarious. :D VERY pathetic, but funny nonetheless. Pretty clever that the creators were able to give both Catman & Hellhound a cameo by merging them together.

[Casey Mack]

The Andromeda thing doesn't really need to be explained; the average viewer -- assuming the average viewer actually thinks about these things -- would just assume that they were two completely separate superheroines.

Now here's something I've been thinking about: does the Legion's appearance here pre-date or follow their appearance in "New Kids in Town"? For instance, is Brainy younger here than when we saw him back in STAS? He certainly looks it...

I would of thought it would take place sometime after. Seeing as how "New kids in town" supergirl was not mentioned nor seen in the "roster shot" saturn girl gave teenaged Clark Kent of the Legion.

[Squall]

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but I was skimming the UK talkbacks for "Flash and Substance" and thinking about the comments that Orion seemed weaker than he used to be / people thought he was, when a thought occured to me -- Do you think Orion was permanantly injured in someway when he recieved the beatdown from Darkseid in "Twilight"? He seemed beaten up pretty bad, lying on a stretcher and everything... Sure, he later recovered for the most part, but maybe he was injured permanantly in some way, that makes him at less than full strength for the rest of his life... bad back, loss of sensitivity due to head trauma, etc.

[Gorthaur]

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but I was skimming the UK talkbacks for "Flash and Substance" and thinking about the comments that Orion seemed weaker than he used to be / people thought he was, when a thought occured to me -- Do you think Orion was permanantly injured in someway when he recieved the beatdown from Darkseid in "Twilight"?It's a thought, but given the nature of the genre (in which masked humans continue the fight for years and years in top shape despite all the abuse they've taken, instead of suffering from arthritis, Parkinson's, etc.), I think it was just a case of a vastly powerful character being written down to facilitate storytelling. The same has been often done to Superman and, heck, even Flash himself in that very episode.

[Casey Mack]

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but I was skimming the UK talkbacks for "Flash and Substance" and thinking about the comments that Orion seemed weaker than he used to be / people thought he was, when a thought occured to me -- Do you think Orion was permanantly injured in someway when he recieved the beatdown from Darkseid in "Twilight"? He seemed beaten up pretty bad, lying on a stretcher and everything... Sure, he later recovered for the most part, but maybe he was injured permanantly in some way, that makes him at less than full strength for the rest of his life... bad back, loss of sensitivity due to head trauma, etc.

since Orion is a New god and can be healed by highfather or buy himself.That theory is way way ou their man. He was "powered down" to fit the purpose of the story. The same way superman was portrayed in JL season 1.

[PeterFries]

The Andromeda thing doesn't really need to be explained; the average viewer -- assuming the average viewer actually thinks about these things -- would just assume that they were two completely separate superheroines.

Now here's something I've been thinking about: does the Legion's appearance here pre-date or follow their appearance in "New Kids in Town"? For instance, is Brainy younger here than when we saw him back in STAS? He certainly looks it...

Oh, sure, the average (read: normal ;)) viewer of that episode probably would have only barely registered the characters shown in a quick pan across a crowded room.

Maybe we saw an earlier version of Brainy in "Far From Home", since the Legion in "New Kids in Town" looked more like the Legion from the 1980s and 90s, versus the 70s version we glimpsed in this episode. Hey, it's time travel, right?

It would be kind of funny if a later version of the Legion visited Kal a decade or so after they inducted Supergirl, but honestly no weirder than the time travelling they did in the comics, where they used to team up with Superboy and the Supergirl from a later era regularly.

Maybe "Andromeda" as shown in "New Kids in Town" is actually just Kara in a new outfit later on.

To make things weirder, I've seen recent rumors hinting that the new Legion series will in fact be in a separate continuity, like The Batman -- because it will feature Superboy, a character that basically didn't exist in S:TAS/JL/JLU continuity.

[Trevor Balena]

It would be kind of funny if a later version of the Legion visited Kal a decade or so after they inducted Supergirl, but honestly no weirder than the time travelling they did in the comics, where they used to team up with Superboy and the Supergirl from a later era regularly.

The weirdest incident would have to be in "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow", where the Legion -- Supergirl included -- comes to pay their last respects to Superman, who they know is about to die. Except from Superman's point of view, Supergirl had just died herself... in the Crisis!

Yeah, recruiting people from the past is kind of a weird thing to do. You'd know all about them, including how they were going to die. How could you team up with someone regularly under those circumstances, knowing that you'd have to send them back to their death? For that matter, how would such an idea even occur to you in the first place? It'd be like us saying, "I know, let's go get Einstein and make him join our seminar series? Or, better yet, let's grab Buddy Holly and make him join our band!"

[bobspoland]

I only just found out we were getting new episodes here in the UK - d'oh!

Anyway I've been watching re-runs all week and today I finally saw one of the new ones - "Grudge Match".

Does anyone know when to tune in to catch the new episodes and when they re-run them?

New episodes UK time 5.30pm Monday and Wednesday. So it finishes next week. As for reruns i think its on at the weekends

[Bird Boy]

New episodes UK time 5.30pm Monday and Wednesday. So it finishes next week. As for reruns i think its on at the weekends

Well theres three episodes left, so it can't finish next week. It'd finish the week after, but with only one new episode. Which makes me wonder if theyr'e going to air that last episode.

No I'm not trying to cause a ruckus, just thinking outloud.

-BB

[bobspoland]

Well theres three episodes left, so it can't finish next week. It'd finish the week after, but with only one new episode. Which makes me wonder if theyr'e going to air that last episode.

No I'm not trying to cause a ruckus, just thinking outloud.

-BB

i meant the week after :p

[Squall]

since Orion is a New god and can be healed by highfather or buy himself.That theory is way way ou their man. He was "powered down" to fit the purpose of the story. The same way superman was portrayed in JL season 1.

What if he was beat on by another New God? If anyone can injure a "god", it's another "god"... :)

[Mr Cat Dog]

Well theres three episodes left, so it can't finish next week. It'd finish the week after, but with only one new episode. Which makes me wonder if theyr'e going to air that last episode.

No I'm not trying to cause a ruckus, just thinking outloud.

-BBIf they've gone this far, they'll air the rest of the eps. CN UK aired a new episode of Foster's on a Monday then had the rest of the week in reruns, so I'm pretty sure that Toonami'll do the same for JLU.

[The Question]

If they've gone this far, they'll air the rest of the eps. CN UK aired a new episode of Foster's on a Monday then had the rest of the week in reruns, so I'm pretty sure that Toonami'll do the same for JLU.

What episode are on next week?

Alive (pt1) and ?

[S.C.B]

It's 'Ancient History' in Monday and 'Alive' on Wednesday.

[Divv]

If they've gone this far, they'll air the rest of the eps. CN UK aired a new episode of Foster's on a Monday then had the rest of the week in reruns, so I'm pretty sure that Toonami'll do the same for JLU.

Don't bet your life on it. Whilst I'm fairly confident that Toonami will show the lot don't forget what happened during season one of JL they showed the entire run of the show week after week but when didn't sir part 3 of Savage Time. Pray there's not a repeat this time. That was horrible before.

[Yojimbo]

Kenshi, to answer your earlier question about the LoSH roster...



Since the lineup was so close to the 1970s lineup of the team, I would have said Brainiac 5, Bouncing Boy, Shadow Lass, Wildfire, Collosal Boy, Cosmic Boy, Saturn Girl, Lightning Lad, Phantom Girl (she had the 'P' on her uniform!), Chameleon Boy, Timber Wolf, Ultra Boy and Blok. Ferro Lad was also seen briefly, in statue form, at the beginning of the episode.

Missing members from that era (or at least, not seen in the ep) would be Dream Girl, Invisible Kid (well, maybe he was there ;)), Sun Boy, Element Lad, Karate Kid, Princess Projectra, Shrinking Violet, Light Lass, Triplicate Girl, Mon-el, Dawnstar and White Witch.

Even though Cosmic Boy, Chameleon Boy and Saturn Girl looked pretty much exactly the same as they did in their S:TAS appearance in "New Kids in Town", that episode's glimpse of the rest of the Legion showed Brainiac 5, Phantom Girl, Dream Girl, Kid Quantum, Triplicate Girl and Light Lass in their outfits from the 1990s era of the Legion (Brainy had a mullet and Phantom Girl was dressed as Apparition). To make that a bit more confusing, Andromeda, the post Zero Hour Legionnaire substitute for the retconned-out-of-existence-for-a-decade-or-so Kara Zor-El Supergirl was shown in that ep.

I'm fuzzy on having seen Light Lass and Andromeda on "new kids..." but that is merely another reason to watch STAS Volume Three when it is released. More or less, it seems about 13-16 members total show up in both episodes. Doesn't seem Legion-ish but I'm sure everyone else was away on missions.

[Redemption]

It's 'Ancient History' in Monday and 'Alive' on Wednesday.
I wouldn't bet on Alive, considering I think that was just finished.

[James]

I wouldn't bet on Alive, considering I think that was just finished.

I don't know.. I mean, you run a season, you run a season. I know some circumstances mean there are breaks, and in the US mid season breaks are more common across the board, but here, if they air a season they do a whole thing, and as JLU is being ditched with no official word from the network, I can't see them holding back to do one finale when technically it's not ending.. :p

I could be wrong, but unless as Redemption says, its final production date was too close to be scheduled - which I'm fairly sure it wouldn't be, I'm sure we'll see Alive this week.

*awaits to be proved UTTERLY wrong*

[S.C.B]

I wouldn't bet on Alive, considering I think that was just finished.
Well, I wouldn't put it past Toonami UK to not show it. As mentioned above, they held back part three of 'The Savage Time' for God's knows how long, then split Season Two in half when they got around to airing that.

It seems that CN's schedule is confusing on a global scale...

[Douglas Fir]

I don't know.. I mean, you run a season, you run a season. I know some circumstances mean there are breaks, and in the US mid season breaks are more common across the board, but here, if they air a season they do a whole thing, and as JLU is being ditched with no official word from the network, I can't see them holding back to do one finale when technically it's not ending.. :p

I could be wrong, but unless as Redemption says, its final production date was too close to be scheduled - which I'm fairly sure it wouldn't be, I'm sure we'll see Alive this week.

*awaits to be proved UTTERLY wrong*

I guess we'll find out soon enough!

[James]

Odd episode. At first I felt it was about to be formula stuff and began to lose interest but the second part made up for the rather obvious first half. Beautifully put together flashback with again this season, some suprisingly adult images and themes. Death, symbolic blood, murder, suicide, jealousy....

Nice twist with the revelation to Hawkman's role and another shockingly adult - and painful - scene with GL's arm being broken.

As for the end, yeah, that seemed a fair conclusion, but with 2 eps left, I wonder how they are going to wrap the GL/HG thing.

With GL fighting against future destiny, finding how he himself, is part of destiny's output and with Bruce/Terry's potential link with destiny also, JLU seems to be throwing a far more spiritual/reasoned plan to the events of their universe. Good luck fighting that GL - you haven't a hope in hell.

EDIT: "Alive" seemed very active in the next episode teaser credits. I think we'll be seeing that on Wednesday, well, I hope. CN/Toonami UK suffers the same wonderfully non informant relationship with it's relationship as the US does. I could quite easily shoot back to Hawk And Dove or the ilk... fingers crossed!

EDIT EDIT: "Alive" appears to be listed on Sky's TV guide.

[bobspoland]

What a shame, wasted season. This episode had the chance to make the it the best ever. Am sorely disappointed with it. I really expected GL and Shayera to get back together. As SJJ said he fighting against his future destiny. Shayera knows he loves him; the same with him. I can't beleive he told her about Warhawk. Also i didnt know Shayera was loning for a child, that was big suprised. I think actually it's better GL stays with vixen for now :sad: certainly wouldn't be fair on her. Maybe she dumps, if it was me i would!!

Am not going to recap, am so disappointed so i'll leave it up to someone else. I liked the ending. Shayera asking batman about Warhawk.
AS for the previews i missed them!

[Stu]

Pretty poor conclusion to the interesting Green Lantern/Shayera relationship. The villain was lame (as was his defeat), the new Hawkman is utterly bland the flashback sequence suffered from the odd pacing throughout the episode. The ending was interesting (a non talking cameo from Batman, what the devil!) but his decision to stay with Vixen was a little off. I was hoping for a little more from this relationship, it's been played so well up until now.

I hope we get a better ending for it in the next two episodes here.

[MR.MXYZPTLK]

What a great episode! as said before it was suprisingly adult gl's arm being broken shocked me. The flashback was the best part the worst part was the conclusion I would of liked to see shayhera (did I spell that right?) get back together with green lantern but it was still a fantastic episode my fave of this season maybe this show I hope the season finale is just as good

[Prowlus]

I really hope this Shayera/Stewart/Carter triangle concludes . What GL did was VERY VERY stupid indeed

[James]

I really hope this Shayera/Stewart/Carter triangle concludes . What GL did was VERY VERY stupid indeed

Guess to be fair to the guy, he's fighting from being made a mindless pawn. He knows a potential future and wants to know that if things naturally go that way, super. He doesn't want a decision to be made on the basis of the reaction to that future. The only way he can secure his integrity is to continue on his path. If circumstances naturally change, fine, but the only change comes from future knowledge sculpting the past.

He's stubborn and there is a little rationality in there too. He knew how Shayera feels, he knows how he does. He knew this before he told her or found out from the past, so technically for him, nothing has changed beyond destiny's nose flairing it's nostrils.

[bobspoland]

I'm a shayera/GL shipper it still leaves some questions. Its a pity what happen here. So will they get together in the next two episodes? doubt it. I think this is it for the Shayera/GL shipper group It's up to our own imagination now what happens here.

[James]

I'm a shayera/GL shipper it still leaves some questions. Its a pity what happen here. So will they get together in the next two episodes? doubt it. I think this is it for the Shayera/GL shipper group It's up to our own imagination now what happens here.

I disagree (putting my rep on the line again, twice in one day). The whole Vixen backstory seemed to imply things weren't good between GL and Vixen. Not.. as they should be. Yes, this could be just a very adult of way of saying "ahhh, we painted some cracks in GL's relationship, you reckon it's be resolved easily? WRONG!!!", but as it's a kid's cartoon, I'd think there will be a more specific move to resolution - whatever that maybe. I'd be surprised if they left Vixen in a dud relationship to make a statement about real life relationships..

[Lord Fate]

I disagree (putting my rep on the line again, twice in one day). The whole Vixen backstory seemed to imply things weren't good between GL and Vixen. Not.. as they should be. Yes, this could be just a very adult of way of saying "ahhh, we painted some cracks in GL's relationship, you reckon it's be resolved easily? WRONG!!!", but as it's a kid's cartoon, I'd think there will be a more specific move to resolution - whatever that maybe. I'd be surprised if they left Vixen in a dud relationship to make a statement about real life relationships..

Hmmm. I really don't like this. He shouldn't be with Mari if he doesn't love her. That's just wasting her time.:sad:

[Redemption]

It may be but he doesn't know Vixen is okay with it. He doesn't just want to dump Vixen and run off with Shayera and leave her all broken. I have a feeling that in the end, Vixen will let John go do whatever he wants to do.

[James]

It may be but he doesn't know Vixen is okay with it. He doesn't just want to dump Vixen and run off with Shayera and leave her all broken. I have a feeling that in the end, Vixen will let John go do whatever he wants to do.

Seems likely it will be Vixen who makes the changes otherwise I think her character is weakened somewhat.

[S.C.B]

Seems likely it will be Vixen who makes the changes otherwise I think her character is weakened somewhat.
That's what I think is the most likely solution, and would probably push John closer to Shayera.

When I first saw Hawkman and his 'banter' with Green Lantern, I thought he had been inducted into the League.

And Shadow Thief had me going from one end to the other as regards to who he was. When he seemed obsessed with ONLY having John, Shayera and Carter, I thought he was something to do with Katar Hol, but certainly not what he ended up being.

And an incredibly nice touch getting the voice of Kraggar as Katar's personal assistant. It just reinforced the destiny subtext even more.

I liked Green Lantern's line to Hawkman after he cut his chains. Makes me hope that he'll be allowed to join the League at some point, especially since he seems to have gotten over his obsession with Shayera (at least to a point).

And speaking of Hawkman, his speech at the end really seemed rushed. Shadow Thief was defeated, and Hawkman suddenly launches into this (very long yet quick) speech that really could have used some more time to get the full emotions he was feeling across.

It was a courageous move on the part of the writers (if the relationship isn't resolved in the next two episodes, that is) for GL to pick Vixen. While it's not THE resolution that fans wanted, it's A resolution that is (to me) satisfying, seeing as the Batman Beyond world has been confirmed an incredible amount of times as being the canonical future of JLU.

I liked the Shayera moment with Batman at the end. Even though he didn't say anything, it was nice anyway. It's touching little moments like that which make me sad the show is ending.

[neogothboy74]

*waits patiently to see the new episode, while struggling to not read posts discussing it* ;)

I really want to see these final 3 episodes!!!! But then again, who doesn't?

[JThree]

Could someone post a few more spoilers from the episode, like what exactly happens in this episode?

Also what was shown in the previews for "Alive"? Any shots of Darksaid?

Have to admit I'm curious to know how the GL/Shayera/Carter storyline turns out. I'm one of the few who's NOT for John Stewart and Shayera. I'm a Silver Age Fan and that mean's Hawkman and Hawkgirl. I loved those stories.


Sincerely,


JThree
carolyn@dia.net

[James]

Have to admit I'm curious to know how the GL/Shayera/Carter storyline turns out. I'm one of the few who's NOT for John Stewart and Shayera. I'm a Silver Age Fan and that mean's Hawkman and Hawkgirl. I loved those stories.

JThree
carolyn@dia.net

Well that's not going to happen. Carter realised it wouldn't be happening. As for the rest of the episode, I think I need to rewatch as I may have missed some integral elements of the twist. Here's waiting for someone to synop and prove my fears right.. never watch while surfing a laptop!

[Karkull]

I promised myself that I wouldn't look -- I wanted it to be a surprise -- but, damn it, I'm too weak.

:crying:

Interesting twist, but Stewart can't cheat fate. I see this going one of two ways:

1) Sometime in the series finale, the creative team pulls a fast one and hooks them up anyway.
2) Fate rears its head between now and Batman Beyond. After all, Warhawk ain't gonna be delivered by a Thanagarian stork!

[S.C.B]

Another thing I liked about this episode is that John and Shayera talked. Actually talked to one another without some kind of awkwardness coming into play. They haven't had a heart to heart like that since 'Starcrossed'. They've been dancing around it for three seasons, and it was refreshing to see them actually communicating with one another.

[amygdala]

Anyway, I'm just curious as to how many people who saw the episode noticed and/or were squicked by the part where Wally raped Tala. Because I'm a bit squicked, personally. Not as much as I could be, simply because as is typical in this kind of setup (see "Anansi Boys," "Revenge of the Nerds," Faith-in-Buffy's-body-nailing-Riley, etc.) the team sidestepped the issue with, "But she really enjoyed it," with an added, "She's a villain and kind of a slut anyway and she initiated it." For those of you who aren't on the same page, it's the difference between consent and informed consent. Or, imagine if you will Lex-in-Wally not being found out immediately, and taking the opportunity to sleep with Fire, and her subsequent reaction when she found out. :sad:

MM:)
at the risk of reopening a pointless issue, i really feel i need to get people clear as to the fact of the matter. rape is sex without consent. not informed consent, but consent. that's the legal definition. that's why sex between adults and children is illegal (children cannot give consent). sex with a person who is impaired by a date-rape drug such as rohypnol is rape. sex with a comatose person is rape.

informed consent has nothing to do with the definition of rape. wally, as lex, had sex with tala under false pretenses. that's equivalent to a guy having sex with a woman after telling her he's a billionaire when he's really a dishwasher. as long as there is consent, it's not rape.

part of the reason i'm upset is because people are wasting their time overanalyzing a preposterous situation which would never occur in real life and thus wouldn't warrant this ethical discussion. as ww said when she saw she was turned into a gorilla, "oh come on!"

people have the assumption that the brain is like a dell computer. that you can put put wally's mind into lex's like you would load a computer program onto your pc. that's not the case. the mind is a creation of the brain. as such, the intricate connections between the neurons will only lead to lex luthor's mind from his brain. you can't create wally in lex's body unless you transplanted his brain as well. i'm not even going to get into a discussion about where the soul resides.

reading the thread, there was so much misinformation that it bordered on disinformation. i enjoyed the episode for what it was, a "what if they switched minds" scenario. it was well written. so far, i've enjoyed the rest of the new episodes as well. unlike some people, i wouldn't characterize this season as a wash, but very entertaining.

[neogothboy74]

So...I'm way diappointed about this turn. The episode was ok, and I actually believe that GL is making the right choice by staying with Vixen, but everything in the story seems to be about GL/HG being right for each other, and the conversation between them at the end didn't reall resolve anything. And Shayera seemed all about GL at the end there... It was almost painful. If this earlier in the season (or there were 13 more episodes to complete the 52 episode set of JLU) that would all be good - because there would be time to work all this out, but as it is, it feels like it's probably the final word on this relationship, and that blows beyond the telling of it.

Besides all that, I thought the animation kind of sucked. The characters didn't look right. And Hawkman was so dull. Not sure how I feel about the origin of Shadow Thief. The episode had a lot of potential, and it was mostly wasted. That's kind of how I feel about this whole season. I know it's supposed to be based on the 'golden age' of comics or something like that, but apparently the golden age just isn't my cup of tea, which is fine; the show doesn't have to revolve around my likes & dislikes. It's just that last season just rocked so hardcore in those final episodes that I was left with the impression that the show could do no wrong. And since I doubt that the GL/HG/Vixen thing will be touched on in any serious way in the finale, I'm not even all that excited to see it. I want to see them, but I'm not chomping at the bit the way I was before this episode aired.

erg. :sad:

I've got to go dance all this frustration away.

[Merlin Missy]

Still digesting the episode. I've got my cock-eyed optimism loaded and ready to assume they're actually going to resolve this in the next two episodes, since this ep leaves us right back in the love triangle (bye, Carter, don't let the door smack you in the butt on your way out) where we've been since "Wake the Dead." This? Not a resolution. And I want my frakking resolution.

Most of the ep is in the plus column as far as GL/HG is concerned. They're still admitting they love each other (something he has yet to say to Vixen on-screen), he told her about Warhawk, she's determined to find out what she can about Rex, they are in fact the reincarnated lovers of yore, and so on. That he didn't break up with Mari while she's in the hospital is a bonus in John's column, 'cause that's skeezy. Also, there was kissing. Admittedly, it was 8,000 year old kissing, but I'll take what I can get.

More later in the official thread once I've had a chance to analyze this further (and we've had a chance to see the end of the universe).


at the risk of reopening a pointless issue, i really feel i need to get people clear as to the fact of the matter. rape is sex without consent. not informed consent, but consent. that's the legal definition. that's why sex between adults and children is illegal (children cannot give consent). sex with a person who is impaired by a date-rape drug such as rohypnol is rape. sex with a comatose person is rape.

informed consent has nothing to do with the definition of rape. wally, as lex, had sex with tala under false pretenses. that's equivalent to a guy having sex with a woman after telling her he's a billionaire when he's really a dishwasher. as long as there is consent, it's not rape.

There's a huge difference between claiming to be a billionaire and allowing someone to believe incorrectly that you're her current lover. As was brought up otherwise, it's the equivalent of a woman having sex with someone she thinks is her husband or boyfriend, and finds out later that it was his twin brother. She consented to the sex, but not with the "brother" --- the sex she was consenting to was with the husband/boyfriend. She didn't know it was the "brother," and the "brother" knew that she didn't know and didn't tell her. That's not consensual. There's no legal standpoint here because bodyswitching isn't going to show up on the books; as you said, it's specifically a situation that would never happen. Parallel situations can and do occur (not just with twins, but say a woman is asleep and someone comes in whom she thinks is her husband/bf), so the question becomes, what would Wally have done in a "real-world" situation? Right now, the data set we have on that is limited to how he reacted in this situation, and I'm saying, it doesn't look good.

MM

[TiamatXXV]

wow, this is a headache.
Considering this all happened off screen, people are sure making a big deal out of it.

All we konw is that Flash went into a room to "relax" and then said that it "wasn't very relaxing"
Who knows. Considering the time lapse, maybe Tala gave him a foot massage or something

[Crow]

I'm sure this was covered in Face Off, if there's somewhere where the scene in that movie was analysed, we'll get a clearer picture on this plot point being used in tv and movies.

[Gorthaur]

I didn't think we'd be getting any more previews, but since I was mistaken, did it look to anyone else as though that was a Boom Tube the LoD starship went through? And did we see villains fighting villains - the Legion divided between Grodd and Luthor?

[Douglas Fir]

So this new episode is repeated at the weekend - right?

[BoyScout]

Just saw Ancient History......

ONE REASON LESS TOO COMPLAIN ABOUT THE 'ANCIENT HISTORY' EPISODE

I guess most people are gonna complain about how the episodes didn't really resolve anything. Well I'm glad it didn't

Relaitionships just don't get resolved in nice little packages. Especially a relationship as complicated as this one. I think John took the more mature approach. Not letting destiny guide him....he is still a little unsure if him going with Sheyera is because he wants too...or he thinks his destined.
So he'd rather let things progress naturally, and that may take more time.

now here is the important part.

John doesn't know him and Shayera having Wakhawk is a definate fact...he knows its a possiible outcome. which would be a good reason why he is still unsure. The future he and Batman went too (once and Future thing) doesn't even exist anymore, they prevented it by trapping whats his name (the time travler guy) in a loop.

The future we know (Batman Beyond), which is the definitive future (which John has no knowledge of) Warhawk does still exist...meaning in the end Shayera and John should get together eventually.

ahhh

get me
cool

EDIT: and I think Shayera and John not being together straight away leaves it open for some Shayera and Carter Hall team-up advetures....Maybe a DTV to Thanagar????

[EJill34]

"Ancient History" is a difficult episode. In terms of pure storytelling, it succeeds with a level of maturity matched by only a select few JLU episodes. But I guess if there was a problem with the episode, it would be that it doesn't give us the happy ending we all want. And while we may want that happy ending for GL and Shayera, I'm not sure it would have been the best way to end this particular episode.

One thing that really made this a great one was all the great little touches like Kragger the Priest and the "Wild Cards" parallel. And damn, did Batman look great in that last shot. That was some nice lighting right there.

The previews look pretty great. And I thought I saw a boom tube, but it sure looks different than its previous appearances.

[Revelator]

Relaitionships just don't get resolved in nice little packages. Especially a relationship as complicated as this one.
Exactly. I would have been greatly disappointed if they decided to tie the whole thing up in pink little ribbons and call it a day. Their storyline would also become a lot less interesting the minute they decided to settle down and be happy together. Better to have them remain starcrossed. I really doubt that the relationship will be settled in the series finale. And I don't wan't it to be. Closure junkies can go to another shore. I hate happy endings--they're so depressing.

I'm going to have to watch this episode again before I can be sure of what was and what wasn't real. Was the whole ancient Egypt flashback just a fevered projection of the Shadow Thief, acting as Katar's dark side? I was stunned that were able to get away with depicting adultery and suicide--perhaps they did so by telling the standards people that the story was totally imaginary. Or maybe I didn't watch closely enough, and it's actually real.
I don't get this "hawkman is bland" stuff. First he gets attacked as an unpleasant stalker psycho, and now people say he's bland? Personally speaking, I was a bit sorry to see him leave.

My favorite part: Shayera gingerly sitting down with silent batman to ask about her son. Nearly as great as the "Tell me about my father" line from 'Paging the Crime Doctor.' Next week it looks like Lex and Grodd get into a hissy-fit.

[Otaku-Smeghead]

I thought History was a filler Ep to behonest. Any JSA readers pick up on the Black Adam camer and his home country of Khandaq? I alwyas thought Ted Lavine (sinestro) would make a great voice for Black Adam

[EJill34]

My favorite part: Shayera gingerly sitting down with silent batman to ask about her son. Nearly as great as the "Tell me about my father" line from 'Paging the Crime Doctor.'

I noticed that as well. I'm not sure if it was a reference to that episode, but the way it played out was quite similar.

[James]

at the risk of reopening a pointless issue, i really feel i need to get people clear as to the fact of the matter. rape is sex without consent. not informed consent, but consent. that's the legal definition. that's why sex between adults and children is illegal (children cannot give consent). sex with a person who is impaired by a date-rape drug such as rohypnol is rape. sex with a comatose person is rape.

informed consent has nothing to do with the definition of rape. wally, as lex, had sex with tala under false pretenses. that's equivalent to a guy having sex with a woman after telling her he's a billionaire when he's really a dishwasher. as long as there is consent, it's not rape.

I agree with Merlin Missy. Sex is the consentual intercourse between two persons, not bodies. Lex wasn't in the body and Flash (for be it his own reasons or because he got carried away) didn't inform her that she was not the other person.

Put it this way. Two identical twins. They secretly have a sexual relationship with one partner, switching in the bathroom between sessions (yes, I saw it on a Jerry Springer, no surprise there). One is the "partner", the other is not. She is having sex with one without consent. It goes far beyond "informed sex". She is consenting under the false pretenses it's someone she knows... In other words it's not the person she thinks it is, while in your example we are dealing with disinformation about what the person does - it's still the same person regardless of what lies he's offered her, not a different one.


part of the reason i'm upset is because people are wasting their time overanalyzing a preposterous situation which would never occur in real life and thus wouldn't warrant this ethical discussion. as ww said when she saw she was turned into a gorilla, "oh come on!"

people have the assumption that the brain is like a dell computer. that you can put put wally's mind into lex's like you would load a computer program onto your pc. that's not the case. the mind is a creation of the brain. as such, the intricate connections between the neurons will only lead to lex luthor's mind from his brain. you can't create wally in lex's body unless you transplanted his brain as well. i'm not even going to get into a discussion about where the soul resides.


Lol, for someone who is upset about people reading too much into it, you've read, erm a lot into it! :) I don't think you can overanalyse this. The premise is Wally's mind is in Lex's mind. In the case of the story it's a simple swap of mind/soul (I stick to the mind analogy to link in with the episode title). I think you just have to accept that and forget the science as you do when you watch Superman flying or Green Lantern having problems with objects that are yellow.


reading the thread, there was so much misinformation that it bordered on disinformation. i enjoyed the episode for what it was, a "what if they switched minds" scenario. it was well written. so far, i've enjoyed the rest of the new episodes as well. unlike some people, i wouldn't characterize this season as a wash, but very entertaining.

That's cool. I agree, it's been largely a fine season. As for the rape thing, it's such an impossible situation it's not worth getting upset over. We are taking criminal law and trying to apply it to an impossible and non applied scenerio. It's a blank area.. and one we could argue on forever which would be a shame as we all know it was NEVER meant to be a serious point in the show, just a fun gag! I would say though if it WAS possible to do this, I think you would find the law would shift towards rape than "non informed consent" simply because - beyond the issue we debated here - no one would like a dirty old man getting their jollies by switching bodies with your spouse!

[Krypton_Knight]

I thought "Ancient History" is a fine episode. It redeems Hawkman, insofar as the character needed redemption, and puts him into a heroic path that should make him a good fit with the JLU - provided, alas, that the series wasn't ending. And it's another step toward a Shayara/GL reconciliation that doesn't feel forced or trite. It's not neat, but they're definitely struggling toward each other - the way good soap opera should be.

KK

[Douglas Fir]

I thought History was a filler Ep to behonest. Any JSA readers pick up on the Black Adam camer and his home country of Khandaq? I alwyas thought Ted Lavine (sinestro) would make a great voice for Black Adam

When you say camer - did you mean to say cameo? Are you saying that Black Adam makes an appearance? If so... awesome!

[Trevor Balena]

When you say camer - did you mean to say cameo? Are you saying that Black Adam makes an appearance? If so... awesome!

Both Kahndaq and Teth-Adam are made mention of, but they don't actually appear. Since Captain Marvel is off-limits again, his villains probably are, as well.

[James]

I thought "Ancient History" is a fine episode. It redeems Hawkman, insofar as the character needed redemption, and puts him into a heroic path that should make him a good fit with the JLU - provided, alas, that the series wasn't ending. And it's another step toward a Shayara/GL reconciliation that doesn't feel forced or trite. It's not neat, but they're definitely struggling toward each other - the way good soap opera should be.

KK

I agree with that. It quite nicely moves Hawkman from being a "threat" to the audiences status quo to becoming a welcome potential JLU recruit. The Shayera/GL reconcilation - or lack of - was nicely done. Anything else would have felt rushed. I just hope the final two eps gives the writers room to add a little more. If not, well, like with all of DCAU, we have our main resolution in Batman Beyond, so we have a fair idea what happens.

[A.J]

Ancient History ha? Well, this episode was just fine. Best parts of the episode were the Flashback and Shayera and Batman little chat. Most of the episode was kind of boring but gotta admit that after watching it again I quite enjoyed it a lot. However, for me it was better than Patrioc Act, the worst JLU episode Ive seen so far. I am sure Shayera and John will end up together after this. Probably Vixen will be the one letting John go.

Ok, now we are finished with the regular episodes and since we are only 2 episodes away from JLU to come to an end Id like to rate this seasons episodes...

I AM LEGION ****
SHADOW OF THE HAWK ****
CHAOS AT THE EARTHS CORE ***
TO ANOTHER SHORE *****
FLASH AND SUBSTANCE ****
DEAD RECKONING ****
PATRIOT ACT **
THE GREAT BRAIN ROBBERY *****
GRUDGE MATCH *** 1/2
FAR FROM HOME ****
ANCIENT HISTORY ****

I definately hated Patrioc Act in every single way but love to death To Another Shore and The Great Brain Robbery :sweat:

If the previews on Ancient History are for Alive that episode certainly looks awesome...and yeah, I saw certain "transporter" as well! :eek:

[S.C.B]

I agree with that. It quite nicely moves Hawkman from being a "threat" to the audiences status quo to becoming a welcome potential JLU recruit. The Shayera/GL reconcilation - or lack of - was nicely done. Anything else would have felt rushed. I just hope the final two eps gives the writers room to add a little more. If not, well, like with all of DCAU, we have our main resolution in Batman Beyond, so we have a fair idea what happens.

That'd be a neat thing to see if you were watching the DCAU in chronological order. The last you see of John and Shayera, they don't seem to be getting together, then BAM! along comes 'The Call' and Rex Stewart walks through the door.

If one was watching Batman Beyond after Justice League Unlimited, it would be a great 'holy crap!' moment.

[MilkManX]

I thought "Ancient History" is a fine episode. It redeems Hawkman, insofar as the character needed redemption, and puts him into a heroic path that should make him a good fit with the JLU - provided, alas, that the series wasn't ending. And it's another step toward a Shayara/GL reconciliation that doesn't feel forced or trite. It's not neat, but they're definitely struggling toward each other - the way good soap opera should be.

KK

Thats how I felt.

Overall I loved that Hawkman was here again and very much like his classic self. Yes he is obsessed with Shayera but he did the right thing. The flashback sequence was great. I thought the animation was nicely timed and smooth. It seems the board artists this season really have the fights intensity levels pumped up.



My only question is....with the Shadow Theif now back inside Hawkman,does that make him a future threat or is it now cancelled out? Either way we will never know for sure since there are only 2 episodes left and I doubt they will come back to that point.

[Knight]

I enjoyed Ancient History and I actually liked how they wrapped up the Hawkman/ Shayera thing. Carter only had part of the story the first time around and this time saw it all the way through thanks to his bad half the Shadow Thief. Him and Shayera were never meant to be forever and it seems that atleast at the moment he has excepted that.Hawkman was also more enjoyable this time around and I say that as a non Hawkman fan. He was truly more of a hero. I wonder what lies ahead for him in this universe.

Now that it seems that John and Shaera were meant for each other what do they do now. I understand John frustration. No one wants to be a puppet and not in control of their own future and thats what he's fighting now. He still loves Shayera but he doesnt want it to be writen in stone that he has to be with her.

I liked the Teth Adam referance (who becomes Black Adam Caps arch nemesis). The only thing missing was a cameo or referance to Nabu who has Dr Fate connections from that era.

Anyway I give the ep a **** stars. Looks like next week it is villains vs villains as the LOD battles each other.

[Soir]

HG and GL were together 5000 years ago, and they will be together in the distant future, just not now on the current show.

[Juu-kuchi]

They really really needed to have episodes like this and "Shadow of the Hawk" back in an earlier season or so. They're good exposition episodes about the still confused feelings of GL and Hawkgirl, but this late into the series, and nearing its finale, more exposition on the LoD is needed.

Still, this episode was pretty good. If anything, the fight scenes were pretty brutal, and the content of the flashback shed a lot of light as to how GL, Hawkman, and Hawkgirl's past lives intertwined. I do think however that Vixen was a bit easily left out of the loop, but at least it was probably all for the better. Then of course Hawkman easily admits about the fate of his relationship a bit too readily. However, if there were more episodes of this series, maybe another Hawkman appearance may take place. Resolution? Well, we can't have everything we have always wanted. All in all let GL and Hawkgirl take control of their destiny and make it result in their son and not let it resign to fate. At least they're not back together this season, or else it would give off the air that the writers were rushing around trying to make sure at least some closure (albeit lacking) would be between their relationship.

I can't wait for the next one. Hopefully this two-part finale to the series pulls out all the stops and ends up as a better free-for-all (if there is any) than "Titans Together" ever was.

[Bruce Wayne Jr.]

I enjoyed the parallel between the flashback sequence and 'Starcrossed'.

I also liked Stewart's decision in the end. As far as the DCU is concerned, no matter how many times we may see it, the future is never certain. That's what keeps us coming back. The series may be ending, but I doubt the JLU will disband, and that means there's a lot in store for these characters.



...And I still don't get all this 'Patriot Act' bashing. :shrug:

[Otaku-Smeghead]

Both Kahndaq and Teth-Adam are made mention of, but they don't actually appear. Since Captain Marvel is off-limits again, his villains probably are, as well.

Yeah I ment to say Cameo sorry. And it was more like the Night Wing Cameo from last week
Why is The Marvel Family off limits??

[MR.MXYZPTLK]

...And I still don't get all this 'Patriot Act' bashing. :shrug:

Yeah that was cool episode

[Gorthaur]

The episode started well enough, with a good measure of the soap opera and human drama that I like amidst my superhero action to make the characters more relatable. Shadow Thief and Gentleman Ghost gave us some adequately entertaining fights, even if I thought that Green Lantern was a bit underpowered. Still, the first act was clearly not the point of interest here, anyway.

The flashback, however, I was initially disappointed with. Seeing Shayera, Katar and John in ancient Egypt, exactly as they are now to the smallest physical detail, made me cringe - it was something more reminiscent of a DuckTales episode than a "serious" superhero drama. Though the sequence actually did turn out to be strong drama, I would have preferred a little more ambiguity on the reincarnation issue: just enough differences in the characters' appearances and voices to at least leave room for the interpretation that Carter was simply the nut GL and Shayera thought, and let the viewer decide which theory to buy. But then again, maybe that's just my preference of the spiritual world being treated as a mystery rather than spelled out in detail.

What happened after the return to real time, I liked. From the surprisingly brutal fighting to Hawkman's redemption as a character to GL's revelation and decision, everything was executed well. And the ending, while a small touch, was the perfect way to end the episode.

Not quite a match for the hilarity of "The Great Brain Robbery" or the grit and shock value of "Dead Reckoning," but still a very solid episode. I just can't believe it'll all be over in a week, which adds a pinch of sadness to my steadily growing anticipation of the finale.

[Trevor Balena]

Why is The Marvel Family off limits??

I don't think we know for sure, but they are. It could have something to do with the Dini/Ross Shazam! animated series that never got off the ground, it could be the TV rights from the old live action series, it could be the live action movie that never got made, or it could be DC putting their foot down again for no discernable reason (as with Nightwing).

[Knight]

Has anyone noticed how much John is getting his butt handed to him regularly. He has one of the most powerful objects in the world at his command but he is constantly being outclassed and overpowered. The Gentlemen Ghost did it, The Shadow Theif did it , The Emerald empress did it. It a really bad pattern. How about having John not be the whipping boy sometimes.

In the previews we get a team linup of what I guess will be the heroic players for the finally.

Superman
Batman
GL
Wonder Woman
Orion
Captain Atom
Atom Smasher
Dr. Fate
S.T.R.I.P.E.
Red Tornado
and
Metamorpho

I also think the JL is going to team up with Luthor's Legion.

[bobspoland]

ok i've watched this again. Yea I've been harsh; I think it's because i'm a GL/HG shipper and i expected more. The episode was nicely done and really john had to be mature at the end. He loves shayera and we all know they end up together. I suppose this keeps us interseted doesn't it? now all we need is refernces again! I though it was funny in the gym with Vixen and Shayera playing off eachother for John. So i say to all GL/HG shippers it might be the end of JLU, but at least we know they WILL be together. I still love the show and hope for something else to happen!

Anyways to the previews
did anyone else see Tala firing yellow beams from her eyes?? Who else fires them..DARKSIED. I'm thinking Tala might have something to do with all this.

[PresidentLuthor]

Can anyone give full detail on the previews? Like what's happening?

[Jazzie]

Who knew between Carter and John it was John who was the crazy one.

[Jazzie]

ok i've watched this again. Yea I've been harsh; I think it's because i'm a GL/HG shipper and i expected more. The episode was nicely done and really john had to be mature at the end. He loves shayera and we all know they end up together. I suppose this keeps us interseted doesn't it? now all we need is refernces again! I though it was funny in the gym with Vixen and Shayera playing off eachother for John. So i say to all GL/HG shippers it might be the end of JLU, but at least we know they WILL be together. I still love the show and hope for something else to happen!




Thye'll be together and granted it would be cold to have the woman wake up out of a coma to a dear john note.

[ComicConfucious]

Can anyone give full detail on the previews? Like what's happening? The previews featured mostly the LOD in action with the exception of one shot of the JL. It looks like Tala and Luthor will be confronting each other with Luthor throwing down Tala in one scene. Tala was also being held prisoner with some kind of energy charge coursing through her while she was screaming. The preview was heavy on the action so we may see something like a "Panic In The Sky" episode.

[Indefatigable]

I loved this episode. I also loved "Things Change." I love neat little packages too, but neat packages can't come over the course of one episode, or even one season (hello Friends). And if you haven't had the buildup to wrap nicely, best to leave it to our imaginations.

A good episode of TV is an episode where I forget how long it's been going. This was one of them.

My main complaint, is that I'm not entirely sure if the flashback was real or if Shayera and Katar really are reincarnations, and if they are, how it worked.

It was neat to see Geoff Johns, the modern comic master of Hawkman and Green Lantern, in the credits. Note that he had Hal break Sinestro's wrist in "Rebirth" also.

[JLfan4life]

this episode was done very very well. even as a HG/GL shipper..i'm not bothered by the ending. They'll get back together, if not by the end of the series...maybe in a DTV. :anime:
i LOVED the ending sequence (especially the HG/Bats moment). The flashback was okay...it was nice to get that Wildcards scene again. This episode had ALOT of adult themes in it though like Mari packing up her clothes at John's apartment! :eek:
anyways...moving on...the previews look awesome!! bring on the next one..even though it's next to the last episode. :(

[Cagalli]

Although I shouldn't be spoiling Ancient History, I've been reading this thread, and it seems I've become very sad. I thought this would be the episode where Green Lantern and Shayera Hol reconnect, make amends, and renew their relationship.

I know many of you prefer to have loose ends stay that way, but in this case I wanted this extremely stressful, long winded relationship to have a happy ending. I've been a GL/HG shipper from day 1 of Justice League. The writers hinted at their relationship during the second season, and when it was revealed during Wild Cards (part 2) I was thrilled. They did drop a hint during the Christmas special, but I believe Wild Cards really defined their relationship. When Starcrossed came out, I was amazed, and greatly saddened. I thought this episode would clear everything up . . . oh well. I guess it's up to my imagination.

[Hero Supreme]

im probably in the minority here, but i think these hawk eps have been the highlights of season 3 so far. bravo!

[PeterFries]

Can anyone give full detail on the previews? Like what's happening?

Okay, shot for shot:

What looks like the Watchtower, but could be another spacecraft, being pulled into what looks like a boom tube, or at least some kind of tubular warp effect, from in orbit above Earth.

Some LoD members (Cheetah, Lex, Toyman, Star Sapphire, Atomic Skull and Sinestro), inside same (windows behind them show warp effect streaming away behind them. They look surprised...?

Tala in closeup, shooting the yellow beams mentioned above from her eyes.

Toyman, walking towards us swinging a yo-yo menacingly in "rock the baby" fashion. His head/mask is cracked...

Lex (in LoD headquarters?), running down a hallway dodging blasts from a laser pistol Grodd is holding

Lex, pushing Tala to the floor and grinning.

LoD meeting room -- Killer Frost, Weather Wiard, Bizarro and Sinestro in foreground reacting in alarm as Goldface's facemask emits gas or smoke? Among others, Heatwave, Shade, Queen Bee at table.

KGBeast opening fire in what looks like the JLU Watchtower control room.

Superman (in front of Metropolis Watchtower?) steps out of a doorway -- fanning out behind him are Captain Atom, Red Tornado, Batman, Atom Smasher, S.T.R.I.P.E., Wonder Woman, Orion, Green Lantern, Dr. Fate and Metamorpho.

Tala and Lex, floating in space as some kind of debris streams past and through them and then space itself seems to crack open, letting brilliant light through from someplace else, fading to white...

Grodd looking pleased with himself as he points a gun at us and fires.

Lex, on receiving end of blast, raises gauntlets of some kind to block the blast.

Grodd, caught in some kind of agonizing lightning effect in front of Lex.

Some guy in black and red with crackling electrical effects surrounding him, throwing a punch at Atomic Skull, knocking him backwards, in corridor of JLU Watchtower. No idea who this is. Lex is standing behind him at end. Villains turning on each other?

Tala, arms outstretched and held in restraints, enveloped in crackling energy.

Killer Frost, shooting ice darts at us, Sinestro and Biarro behind her.

Evil Star (?), with swirling energy effect in front of him, in some kind of control room.

The Key, some other villains I can't identify off hand, using their powers in what looks like an attack.

Lex, in a sort of reverse of the Superman-fanning-out-heroes shot from earlier, stanging in front of a lineup of villains including Heatwave, Toyman, Cheetah, Giganta, Atomic Skull, Evil Star, Bizarro, Sinestro, Star Sapphire, Killer Frost and Volcanna. Zoom in on Lex.

[PresidentLuthor]

Okay, shot for shot:

What looks like the Watchtower, but could be another spacecraft, being pulled into what looks like a boom tube, or at least some kind of tubular warp effect, from in orbit above Earth.

Some LoD members (Cheetah, Lex, Toyman, Star Sapphire, Atomic Skull and Sinestro), inside same (windows behind them show warp effect streaming away behind them. They look surprised...?

Tala in closeup, shooting the yellow beams mentioned above from her eyes.

Toyman, walking towards us swinging a yo-yo menacingly in "rock the baby" fashion. His head/mask is cracked...

Lex (in LoD headquarters?), running down a hallway dodging blasts from a laser pistol Grodd is holding

Lex, pushing Tala to the floor and grinning.

LoD meeting room -- Killer Frost, Weather Wiard, Bizarro and Sinestro in foreground reacting in alarm as Goldface's facemask emits gas or smoke? Among others, Heatwave, Shade, Queen Bee at table.

KGBeast opening fire in what looks like the JLU Watchtower control room.

Superman (in front of Metropolis Watchtower?) steps out of a doorway -- fanning out behind him are Captain Atom, Red Tornado, Batman, Atom Smasher, S.T.R.I.P.E., Wonder Woman, Orion, Green Lantern, Dr. Fate and Metamorpho.

Tala and Lex, floating in space as some kind of debris streams past and through them and then space itself seems to crack open, letting brilliant light through from someplace else, fading to white...

Grodd looking pleased with himself as he points a gun at us and fires.

Lex, on receiving end of blast, raises gauntlets of some kind to block the blast.

Grodd, caught in some kind of agonizing lightning effect in front of Lex.

Some guy in black and red with crackling electrical effects surrounding him, throwing a punch at Atomic Skull, knocking him backwards, in corridor of JLU Watchtower. No idea who this is. Lex is standing behind him at end. Villains turning on each other?

Tala, arms outstretched and held in restraints, enveloped in crackling energy.

Killer Frost, shooting ice darts at us, Sinestro and Biarro behind her.

Evil Star (?), with swirling energy effect in front of him, in some kind of control room.

The Key, some other villains I can't identify off hand, using their powers in what looks like an attack.

Lex, in a sort of reverse of the Superman-fanning-out-heroes shot from earlier, stanging in front of a lineup of villains including Heatwave, Toyman, Cheetah, Giganta, Atomic Skull, Evil Star, Bizarro, Sinestro, Star Sapphire, Killer Frost and Volcanna. Zoom in on Lex.
Thanks, seems interesting. So Lex vs. Grodd.

[Karkull]

Some guy in black and red with crackling electrical effects surrounding him, throwing a punch at Atomic Skull, knocking him backwards, in corridor of JLU Watchtower. No idea who this is. Lex is standing behind him at end. Villains turning on each other?Sounds like the Electrocutioner (see here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrocutioner)).

[PeterFries]

Sounds like the Electrocutioner (see here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrocutioner)).

Actually, if this (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/jlu/episodes/catcanary/19.jpg) is the Electrocutioner on the far left, then that was him in front of the Key in that later shot. And I still don't know who this other guy is.

[Karkull]

Nope, that guy's Bloodsport.

[Squall]

Just one question for you lucky British viewers -- is the fact that Brainiac is still buried in Lex Luthor's body a theme at this point in the season? I haven't read anyone mention it in a while, and wonder if it was just something that the writers forgot about... just curious! :)

[TiamatXXV]

Yep! in both the season opener as well as the recent Grudge Match, Luthor was seen trying to rebuild a Brainiac or tap into his data through a piece of his remains. Luthor was also seen talking to his evil imaginary friend at both these times

[Hero Supreme]

Yep! in both the season opener as well as the recent Grudge Match, Luthor was seen trying to rebuild a Brainiac or tap into his data through a piece of his remains. Luthor was also seen talking to his evil imaginary friend at both these times

also it was a major plot point of the great brain robbery.

[PeterFries]

Nope, that guy's Bloodsport.

Ah, okay -- then Bloodsport is seen diving to the ground menacingly, kicking up debris as the Key is blasting away and some other villains seem to be on the attack, and it's definitely Electrocutioner throwing punches at Atomic Skull in what looks to be the Watchtower corridor.

[reflection]

No episode has redeemed itself in the last half more than this one. I was very upset spending a segment in ancient Egypt after spending the last episode in the Egypt. At that point, I felt like the last episode and a half explained why the creative team felt there weren't many stories to tell.

The end was fantastic. Beautiful storytelling that also juxtaposed the complexity of love and power with the simplicity of the previous episode.

JLU tells adult stories better that most 30 minute shows I've seen in my life. It will be a shame to see it go. Too bad Cartoon Network has no respect for new American cartoons with adult themes.

Three additional comments:

"Great Brain Robbery" wasn't hilarious. It was a solid ep, but not a funny one.

"Patriot Act" did exactly what it set out to do. Very nice work.

As far as Season 3, no season could have matched the storytelling and drama of the Cadmus arc. No way. No how. The creative team went in a completely different direction and suceeded. It's difficult enough to build a cohesive story arc over 13 episodes. The DCAU has been built over 14 years.

Only 2 episodes left. I was a junior in HS when I first watched BTAS and I'm a college professor now. I'm just as hooked now as I was then.

[Dens Maris]

I've been thinking about the Flash/Tala thing, lately. Gonna go ahead and try to make up my mind.

Anyone familiar with the plot of Measure for Measure by Shakespeare ought to at least get an inkling of why I bring it up. In that play, a corrupt lawman, Angelo, sentences a man to death for impregnating a woman. That man's sister, a nun named Isabelle, comes to beg for his release. Behind closed doors, Angelo agrees that he'll set her brother free or at least let him live in prison- if she'll have sex with him. You can imagine Isabelle's response, but she's in a fix. After trying to convince her brother to die instead of violate arguably her deepest beliefs, the Duke of the land, in disguise, arranges a swap. He gets Isabelle to agree to the one-night stand on the conditions that it last only an hour, it be in total darkness, and that neither of them speak. You can imagine where this is going. The Duke actually goes and gets Angelo's ex-wife to take Isabelle's place, and they, uh, "play scrabble" in exactly those conditions. Ironically, Angelo tries to have Isabelle's brother killed even after he thinks he's bedded her, but...well, it's a bouncy ending, and I'd better get to the point.

In that situation, a villain is, by this logic, raped. But if this didn't happen, either a man would certainly die (Angelo cannot be convinced otherwise) or a woman would suffer an even worse fate. But if consent is the only thing that matters, then Angelo was raped. Plain and simple. So I guess that makes the Duke and Isabelle rapists. But what they did was meant to save a man's life and a woman's honor. But it was a trick.

It's a...delicate situation. Flash was in a really tight spot and Tala was quite set on "refreshing" Luthor. Certainly he could've thrown the tired old "I have a headache" line at her, but would she have bought it? Would she have listened to it? And would it have dropped his guard? Tala says later he was "enthusiastic." This isn't the same as saying that Luthor is the kind to turn her down, just that he might not be as...intense a scrabble player. So could Flash have risked Tala discovering him, who is also the one person in the Legion who doesn't seem to want to kill him? If he loses her, what chance does he really have of getting out alive?

So I'm not sure I can pass judgment on this kind of thing. I do, however, take issue with these lines about "the creative team side-stepping it by making Tala a slut, a man-hopper, etc." That's put rather condescendingly if you ask me. Sure, that Tala doesn't seem to CARE who she's in bed with so long as it's the leader makes the action itself less reprehensible than if she were truly in love with Luthor. But it ignores Wally's dilemma. I'm not saying it was his only option (again, something like the headache line could have worked), but I think it was one of his safest, for both parties involved.

I also think it was meant to be, er, comical, and not turn Wally West into an unconvicted sex offender. But I suppose that's just semantics around here...? :sweat:

On "Ancient History", I'm still digesting, myself, but I gotta admit that it's a little odd to see a Joaquim dos Santos-directed episode with such wince-able animation to accompany his craft. That scene where Shayera and Vixen are walking up to the museum made me cringe. Still, the fight scenes were well-done while being quick and to-the-point.

Loved that last scene, too. And man, the previews look damn cool. I can't wait. :anime:

[Crow]

Considering how often Clark Kent has kissed Lois Lane in disguise as Superman I find it strange nobody's ever called him into account for it.

[DarqueGuy]

Here's a better shot of the Electrocutioner...

http://www.jlcentral.net/image.php?c=./images/catcanary/catcanary047.jpg

[multivac]

Considering how often Clark Kent has kissed Lois Lane in disguise as Superman I find it strange nobody's ever called him into account for it.


Clark Kent IS Superman. One and the same.
But Flash is NOT Lex Luthor. It's like Clark dressed up as Batman to kiss Lois.:D

[James]

It's a...delicate situation. Flash was in a really tight spot and Tala was quite set on "refreshing" Luthor. Certainly he could've thrown the tired old "I have a headache" line at her, but would she have bought it? Would she have listened to it? And would it have dropped his guard? Tala says later he was "enthusiastic." This isn't the same as saying that Luthor is the kind to turn her down, just that he might not be as...intense a scrabble player. So could Flash have risked Tala discovering him, who is also the one person in the Legion who doesn't seem to want to kill him? If he loses her, what chance does he really have of getting out alive?

Well, as people have said here before, they're not condemning Flash as a criminal, but saying regardless of the scenerio he was in, his actions were non consentual. He was not person she thought she was consenting with. In the end, it was a call Flash made, however there are ALWAYS alternatives. He's playing Lex who does what HE wants. If Lex doesn't want sex, he doesn't want sex. It could have been played out.



So I'm not sure I can pass judgment on this kind of thing. I do, however, take issue with these lines about "the creative team side-stepping it by making Tala a slut, a man-hopper, etc." That's put rather condescendingly if you ask me. Sure, that Tala doesn't seem to CARE who she's in bed with so long as it's the leader makes the action itself less reprehensible than if she were truly in love with Luthor. But it ignores Wally's dilemma. I'm not saying it was his only option (again, something like the headache line could have worked), but I think it was one of his safest, for both parties involved.

Well it wasn't the safest. The safest was no "headache" but to tell her no! That Lex Luthor does the seducing and he does it when HE wants it! That would be the most in character and safest for both parties, but in the end, wouldn't been comical - and it CAN be comical because it is an impossible situation. It's not rooted in sexual acts of reality. So it is all fun.


I also think it was meant to be, er, comical, and not turn Wally West into an unconvicted sex offender. But I suppose that's just semantics around here...? :sweat:

Again, people have been saying that all the way through this thread. Yes it was a comic device. No it wasn't meant to be taken seriously. It wasn't meant to be analysed. But fans do that. They are bright. They like discussing deeper issues in simple cartoons. They know what the INTENT of the scene was, and no one isn't arguing it wasn't fun - OR out of character of Flash. As I said, before, I doubt the moral implications of his call ever crossed Wally's mind. He's impetuous. It's him.

All that's being said, is bottom line the act was non consentual sex. It's generally classed as rape by definition, but no one is trying to paint Wally as a sexual criminal. It was a weird situation beyond laws of society and physics, but it's FUN to have a debate about it.

Don't anyone misread debating as not understanding the INTENT of the scene within a story. :) Regardless of any moral issues, it worked within the tale, comically and to throw distinction between Lex and Wally.

Best way to put the point across is to swing the tables. Say people COULD jump bodies. And you find another man from across the street had swapped bodies with you and ended up having sex with the love of your life knowing he wasn't you. Someone else has had intimacy reserved for you by pretending he's you. How would you feel?

Forget the reasons why Wally was in that situation, as I said, it's not about condemning Wally but talking about the ACT. How the ACT is non consentual sex and why it should - if even reality warped to allow such a possibility - be possibly considered as rape. It's not only decieving the partner to your identity, you are also stealing another persons identity. I don't know about you, but the thought of someone testdriving one's personal property (eg your body) through sexual acts is not pleasing! :)

Sorry to bring this up again. I just feel people are missing the crux of the debate by trying to defend Wally when really, Wally isn't at the very heart of the issue (well in some ways he is), it's about the nature of the scene rather than it's directorial intent or it's characters.

I just want to make that clear so we don't end up with people thinking we're arguing over whether we can call Wally West a rapist!

[James]

Finally, can I remind people to put previews in SPOILER tags?

I for one know I like to see an episode with NO expectations and I think spoiler tags are courteous for those who feel that way. I know there are quite a few who do.

Not for long now! Thanks!

[Hour Man]

I'm surprised no one noticed Huntress trying to start phone sex with Question now that was funny.

[He Phoenix]

i still hope kara would make it to the final eps... i already miss her

[S.C.B]

I want to see J'onn more than Kara - she's had sufficient closure, but he was simply left to wander the Earth learning about humanity. It'd be neat for him to return at least for the big battle, and then perhaps return to his life as John Jones.

[Knight]

We'll J'onn has certainly earned the award of "Most Underused Original Justice League Member" this year.

[Arkangel]

The flashback scene in "Ancient History" was just too long. It caused the ending to be too abrupt. There was so much wasted time during the flashback that could have been better utilized on a more developed ending. But I guess Geoff Johns just can't resist writing long sequences about ancient Egypt.

As a fan of the Silver Age Hawks, I was pleased by the inclusion of a lot of the Hawkman millieu, including the Midway City museum, the Hawks fighting with archaic weapons and the Shadow Thief (with a nice twist on the origin).

I also appreciate how this cartoon refuses to take the easy way out and resisted hooking up John Stewart and Hawkgirl at the end, despite all of the hokey "they were made for each other" references througout this episode and the series as a whole. I like that GL chose Vixen and stuck with her, fate be damned.

Can't wait for the slugfest that is sure to ensue in the series finale episodes, starting tonight.

[Devils_Advocate]

What is it they say? Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it? John is walking right into destiny and being the puppet he claims he does not want to be. History has shown that John and Shayera fall in love, Shayera is willing to walk away from all she knows to be with him and then they are parted (in the case of ancient Egypt, that means dead). This scenario occurred in Starcrossed. Somehow John and Shayera survived, but still parted. They were given a second chance to break the chain. John saw in the future by seeing Rex that the chain can be broken. But he is choosing to be destiny's puppet and keep them parted in this life time so they can do it all again and the chain will continue to grow. In some ways it is laughable.

If I were Shayera, I would ask for the most dangerous assignments until I am eventually killed and hope the next life is better. If she can avoid meeting John, she should be able to avoid the angst and the chain that follows them for at least one lifetime.

D_A

[A.J]

Why is some people here saying that the Flashback on AH may not be real? I dont understand :o

So, "Alive" should be airing today right? I hope they do air ir! cant wait! Ill need you tonight more than ever Mr Jinx!!! Ill do my best as well! ;)

[Knight]

What is it they say? Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it? John is walking right into destiny and being the puppet he claims he does not want to be. History has shown that John and Shayera fall in love, Shayera is willing to walk away from all she knows to be with him and then they are parted (in the case of ancient Egypt, that means dead). This scenario occurred in Starcrossed. Somehow John and Shayera survived, but still parted. They were given a second chance to break the chain. John saw in the future by seeing Rex that the chain can be broken. But he is choosing to be destiny's puppet and keep them parted in this life time so they can do it all again and the chain will continue to grow. In some ways it is laughable.

If I were Shayera, I would ask for the most dangerous assignments until I am eventually killed and hope the next life is better. If she can avoid meeting John, she should be able to avoid the angst and the chain that follows them for at least one lifetime.

D_A

Wouldnt you be pretty fearless going into battle if you knew for certain you wasnt going to die? Atleast not until you had conceived a child anyway. She should feel like she can take on anyone.

[James]

Why is some people here saying that the Flashback on AH may not be real? I dont understand :o

So, "Alive" should be airing today right? I hope they do air ir! cant wait! Ill need you tonight more than ever Mr Jinx!!! Ill do my best as well! ;)

I was actually concerned about this. I mentioned a page back how I was worried that I missed the point of the episode in retrospect from spending too much time on the laptop as I watched.

I wished I had paid more attention to the ending.. but the idea which I was concerned about was whether the Shadow King vestiage from that past wasn't just manipulating the past history scenerio to fulfil the desires and conviction of Carter.

I must admit I can barely remember the end scenes (aside from the cool Shayera and Batman one), so I'm not saying this as a definitive debatable point, just something which occurred to me retrospectively and I've been waiting for someone to clarify! :)

[Revelator]

One of the best things about the Shayera/Batman scene is that it fades out and leaves us to fill the rest in. What exactly did Batman tell her, if he told her anything in the first place? We know that Batman himself wanted to know as little about his future as possible--would he tell Shayera she was best off not knowing? There's no definite answer, just as the episode gives no definitive answer about GL and Shayera's future together. I'm leaning toward the idea of Batman gently telling her that he wouldn't feel comfortable divulging what he knew about the future, but that's only my conception of unseen events.

[Simpler Simon]

One of the best things about the Shayera/Batman scene is that it fades out and leaves us to fill the rest in. What exactly did Batman tell her, if he told her anything in the first place?

I'm wondering just how much Batman -could- tell, besides basic physical descriptions and that he had Shayera's "fighting spirit." The episode didn't give us any deep exchanges onscreen, and it was never implied that any happened offscreen.

Shayera: Tell me about my son.

Batman: Okay...His name was Warhawk, his real name was Rex Stewart, he had silver armor.

Shayera: Wow....what else?

Batman: ......did I mention his name was Warhawk?

[A.J]

Mmm...I know this is a different show but I remember that back in Dragon Ball Z they wouldnt tell the name or real existence of Trunks to Vegeta or Bulma because it could damage his existence...so, if Batman tells Shayera that his names son is Rex Stewart shouldnt be that causing some negative effect for his existence?

[James]

Mmm...I know this is a different show but I remember that back in Dragon Ball Z they wouldnt tell the name or real existence of Trunks to Vegeta or Bulma because it could damage his existence...so, if Batman tells Shayera that his names son is Rex Stewart shouldnt be that causing some negative effect for his existence?

Quite the opposite. It would give even more reason for existence and the name he's given. A little bit of an oroborus paradox, but nevertheless I think it gives more credence to Warhawk's eventual existence.

[A.J]

Quite the opposite. It would give even more reason for existence and the name he's given. A little bit of an oroborus paradox, but nevertheless I think it gives more credence to Warhawk's eventual existence.

I agree :)

So, is ALIVE on already!!!!?? :D

[Arkangel]

Of course, everyone here is operating on the assumption that the future visited by Batman, Wonder Woman and GL is immutable and, no matter what, John and Shayera will get back together and have a son. There is no reason to jump to this conclusion (and the show will obviously end without ever providing a definite answer).

[James]

Yes. Been and gone.

Would have enjoyed it more if I knew they had more than 25 minutes to wrap the WHOLE thing up. Not sure how they are going to do that quite honestly. With so much to cover, it did feel a little drawn out. Killer final 5 minutes though.

[Arkangel]

Yes. Been and gone.

Would have enjoyed it more if I knew they had more than 25 minutes to wrap the WHOLE thing up. Not sure how they are going to do that quite honestly. With so much to cover, it did feel a little drawn out. Killer final 5 minutes though.
Cool, can't wait to see it; hopefully tonight when I get home.