Lupin III Series 1 potentially licensed.

[Matt Hazuda]

Found this post over at AOD (http://forums.animeondvd.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1265039&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1) is hinting that the first Lupin TV series has been licensed.
It was brought to the attention of the Yahoo! Lupin group that a fan sub group said the following:



Today at 22pm GMT+1, I got a mail from a anime company asking us to stop releasing Lupin season 1 as they have now officially licensed it.

Their official statement will be made at the next anime convention in the US. I hope they will do a good job and as always, we follow C&D requests.


I know it's rather old, so I'm suprised if it truly is announced and not just another case of a company locking out fansubbers just because.

[Dark Fact]

I read all about this as well on AnimeOnDVD. If the licensing rumour is true, then good. Lupin III Part I is pretty well written, even if the animation looks moldy by today's standards.

I don't see FUNimation picking up this series since they're more interested in the newer Lupin movies. Therefore, either Geneon or Discotek look like possible candidates for the license since they are interested in picking up the older Lupin episodes.

[Daizaburo Estes]

I really hope it's not Geneon, but it most likely is.

Ah, well. I'm just glad to hear that somebody has FINALLY picked up this show, being the big Lupin fan I am. :D

[GrantM]

I really hope it's not Geneon, but it most likely is.

Ah, well. I'm just glad to hear that somebody has FINALLY picked up this show, being the big Lupin fan I am. :D

Why not Geneon?, they seem like the obvious choice since they have the second series

[.Automatisch]

Cool, can't wait for it to get out so I can buy em all.

[Daizaburo Estes]

Why not Geneon?, they seem like the obvious choice since they have the second series

Eh, their dub was kinda obnoxious to me(somtimes, anyway) and I wasn't a big fan of the subtitles on the discs either. But things might've changed since those times, who knows? I hear on that the English dub gets better and better with each release. Not sure about the translation, though.

Like I said, I'm just glad it's coming to the US AT LAST.

[Lord Dalek]

It'll probably be sub only since the original raw audio stems were destroyed years ago.

[SpaceCowboy]

It'll probably be sub only since the original raw audio stems were destroyed years ago. It would be impossible to rescore new music and make it work as well as the original tracks. Geneon could use Yuji Ono's tracks that they have the license to from the later Lupin series but it may not be appropiate for the overall darker and more serious tone this first series has.
Hope that the 1968 TV pilot, "Secret Files", was part of the license. It was on the Italian DVD release of the first series.

[livingfruitvirus]

Eh, their dub was kinda obnoxious to me(somtimes, anyway) and I wasn't a big fan of the subtitles on the discs either. But things might've changed since those times, who knows? I hear on that the English dub gets better and better with each release. Not sure about the translation, though.

Geneon doesn't dub their shows. They subcontract to another studio to dub it. If another distributor got it, like Discotek, they could continue to commission it to the same studio as Geneon did.

[Beat]

Well, it's either Genon or FUNi.

Whoever advertises it is bound to use Miyazaki in their ads, I bet.

[Umino]

This is great news, if it's true. I really want to see the first series, despite the lack of Eiko Masuyama and the red jacket. Hopefully who ever licensed it can get the R2 masters (assuming they're good). And atleast this series won't have a 15+ DVD release. :shrug:

[Lord Dalek]

This is great news, if it's true. I really want to see the first series, despite the lack of Eiko Masuyama and the red jacket. Well he does wear the red jacket in the show's second opening...

Albeit in stock footage from Secret Files.

[Botman]

Hmm...I thought Geneon had received the rights to all three series at the same time, and just decided to start with the second one.

In any event, I hope it goes to Geneon. If not, then I'll probably stick to the second series unless they can at least get Richard Epcar for the dub.

[Nobuyuki sama]

Well, it's either Genon or FUNi.
It could be Discotek, since they have Fuma and Babylon, as well as the live-action movie.

[Lord Dalek]

In any event, I hope it goes to Geneon. If not, then I'll probably stick to the second series unless they can at least get Richard Epcar for the dub.Again if Geneon had licenced it it would be difficult if not impossible to do an english dub due to the lack of clean sound elements (The Italian Version for instance has completely different music).

[NickMB]

It'll probably be sub only since the original raw audio stems were destroyed years ago.

That majorly sucks! I hope they find a way though. Lupin already has an established fan base of dub watchers through the Geneon, FUNimation, and, to some extent, the Manga and Streamline dubs, and not dubbing the show would be detrimental to its success in the US. If Geneon or FUNimation has it, I hope they shell out some money to record new background music and SFX. I know that sounds kind of improbable, but with Hayao Miyazaki and Isao Takahara directing 14 of the show's 23 episodes, with proper marketing of that fact, the return investment from established Lupin fans as well as Miyazaki fans could be great. That's why I hope Geneon or FUNimation has this and not Discotek, since they can put up the money for something like this, while Diskotek can't.

You know, perahaps Disney licensed this on account of its Miyazakiness :D ya right :p.

As for how many volumes this series would have, it could be a 7 disk release with two volumes having 4 episodes and five volumes having 3, or a 6 disk release with five volumes having 4 episodes and one volume having 3 episodes. Whichever way this gets released, I hope that volume one comes with a nice-looking box and that the cover art for the individual volumes is good as well.

Oh, and I hope that the masters the company receives are the ones from the HD remaster made for the satellite rebroadcast, as those were much better than the R2 DVD release.

[Weatherman]

Well, it's either Genon or FUNi.

Whoever advertises it is bound to use Miyazaki in their ads, I bet.

Indubitably. Thouse wer GORGEOUS episodes.

[Golgo13]

Again if Geneon had licenced it it would be difficult if not impossible to do an english dub due to the lack of clean sound elements (The Italian Version for instance has completely different music).

That opening animation is actually from the original pilot that was animated prior to the series and was much more rubberly like the manga.

People who have been use to pacing and comedy of the second series may a little let down with the first series. Don't get me wrong, I love everything about the first series. It's just that the episodes take their time in creating an entertaining plot. Also, the relationship between Fujiko and Lupin is played in a much more serious tone.

And it would really suck if they can't get the original audio. Granted most of them sound a bit dated, but there are some well-sung English songs that I think people would get a kick out of.

[SpaceCowboy]

Again if Geneon had licenced it it would be difficult if not impossible to do an english dub due to the lack of clean sound elements (The Italian Version for instance has completely different music).

Wow. I didn't know they were destroyed that long ago. The Italian dub is from 1979 according to a review on AnimeonDVD.com

[Dark Fact]

That majorly sucks! I hope they find a way though. Lupin already has an established fan base of dub watchers through the Geneon, FUNimation, and, to some extent, the Manga and Streamline dubs, and not dubbing the show would be detrimental to its success in the US. If Geneon or FUNimation has it, I hope they shell out some money to record new background music and SFX. I know that sounds kind of improbable, but with Hayao Miyazaki and Isao Takahara directing 14 of the show's 23 episodes, with proper marketing of that fact, the return investment from established Lupin fans as well as Miyazaki fans could be great. That's why I hope Geneon or FUNimation has this and not Discotek, since they can put up the money for something like this, while Diskotek can't.
You're missing the point. Lupin III Part I is from 1969. Geneon wouldn't want to touch a series that old. Discotek is the only company out there who even has any interest in doing the old old school releases. Heck, nobody thought in a million years that anyone would license the live action Lupin movie and look what happened!

Of course, if Geneon did buy the rights to the first series, I will be flabbergasted!

[Lord Dalek]

Of course, if Geneon did buy the rights to the first series, I will be flabbergasted!
I wouldn't count out Geneon just yet, they have in the past released some very old stuff including a contemporary of Lupin Series One, Panda Go Panda.

However... Funi would never touch anything that old.

[NickMB]

However... Funi would never touch anything that old.

But this isn't just any old series. First of all, it's Lupin, and 2nd of all, it's (partially) Hayao Miyazaki's Lupin...that fact makes it an A title :p

Plus, FUNimation has refrained from denying that they have it...doesn't mean that they actually do, but if they didn't, why wouldn't they say so when asked?

[Nobuyuki sama]

Plus, FUNimation has refrained from denying that they have it...
Until now (http://forums.toonzone.net/showpost.php?p=2054583&postcount=1576) (for those who're just joining us ;) )

[Dark Fact]

Scratch FUNimation off that list! That leaves us with Geneon and Discotek!

My money's still on Discotek though...

[MGFanJay]

Discotek's market would be more likely to buy the first series. I'm hoping Geneon's cast ends up being used no matter which company gets the rights. They have the most chemistry with each other, and seem to know the roles really well.

[Golgo13]

I'd much prefer Discotek over Geneon because they appear most likely to preserve the original content and not milk the series through 3 episode DVDs.

I like the Geneon cast, but I don't quite think they'd fit in this series. There are a few episodes in the first series that are played pretty seriously and dramatically. The episode involving Fujiko's ex-partner Pun probably has the most drama out of any other Lupin episode. Another one has Lupin let himself be captured in solitude for a year in order to carry out his plan.

[Lord Dalek]

Until now (http://forums.toonzone.net/showpost.php?p=2054583&postcount=1576) (for those who're just joining us ;) )It was basically illogical that they would consider buying the rights to First Series Lupin III as Funi's never licenced ANYTHING older than 1986. Way to go fanboy.

Discotek is a possibility but has yet to licence a tv series so that might rule em out. And technically this is still a rumor.

[MGFanJay]

Golgo, Geneon has been pretty nice with their Lupin second series releases. There are always at least five eps on each disc, with some having six and bonus drawings and stuff. They have yet to top their Mamo extras though.

[Golgo13]

Golgo, Geneon has been pretty nice with their Lupin second series releases. There are always at least five eps on each disc, with some having six and bonus drawings and stuff. They have yet to top their Mamo extras though.

That is because the second series is over 145 episodes long. The first series is about 24 episodes long. I'm pretty sure they'd turn the episode count down on the discs if they produced that series.

[MGFanJay]

They might, but there's a decent chance they won't. If they do go that route, I'd hope they'd at least put some extras on the DVDs.

[Paul_Cousins]

It'll probably be sub only since the original raw audio stems were destroyed years ago.If the audio is that badly degraded, it's more likely to be a English dub only, unless you want to sub a silent film.

[ChibiGoku]

If the audio is that badly degraded, it's more likely to be a English dub only, unless you want to sub a silent film.

Audio Stems = Sound Effects and BGM that went to each episode he basically means.

[Paul_Cousins]

Audio Stems = Sound Effects and BGM that went to each episode he basically means.A decent computer audio program could seperate out the sounds and music from a combined audio master.

But given the age of the product, they may have to scrap the entire orginal audio altogher; the dialogue, sounds and music.

[Karl Olson]

The point is the original Japanese music tapes don't exist. Shoot, some comedy manga have even made cracks about those lost music master tapes for the original Lupin the 3rd series (check Midori's Days vol.4 for an example of this.) Further still, that original audio was relatively low fidelity, low dyanmic range and mono mixed too IIRC. As such, separating the music from the SFX and Vox is nearly impossible, or atleast vastly too expensive for some niche anime release. It will like be sub-only, or the dub will be rescored and re-SFX'd from scratch.

[Treadwell]

A decent computer audio program could seperate out the sounds and music from a combined audio master.

Actually, that's next to impossible. A common myth.

[Paul_Cousins]

Actually, that's next to impossible. A common myth.Given what can been done with a soundmixer and a PC, it's possible. It's just a pain in the but to do it.


The point is the original Japanese music tapes don't exist. Shoot, some comedy manga have even made cracks about those lost music master tapes for the original Lupin the 3rd series (check Midori's Days vol.4 for an example of this.) Further still, that original audio was relatively low fidelity, low dyanmic range and mono mixed too IIRC. As such, separating the music from the SFX and Vox is nearly impossible, or atleast vastly too expensive for some niche anime release. It will like be sub-only, or the dub will be rescored and re-SFX'd from scratch.It is probably cheaper to just junk the entire original Japanese audio and have an english dub only release.

Audio restoration can be time consuming.

I am sure it's going to cost money just to restore the animation, they may not have enough in the budget for fixing the audio, and instead it would be cheaper to just start over with what they have from later Lupin series.

Also, I think they should use the same english cast as is in the second Lupin series, those guys are good at their jobs.

[Karl Olson]

Given what can been done with a soundmixer and a PC, it's possible. It's just a pain in the but to do it.

And people have to be payed to do it. Payed well at that. Audio Enginners don't come cheap. I should know as a musician with a home studio.


It is probably cheaper to just junk the entire original Japanese audio and have an english dub only release.

Not when the Japanese audio is decent enough that it's listenable. Besides, noise removal and EQ, which would be basically all that audio restoration for it would amount to, isn't the hard part (there are freeware plugins could probably clean it up in fact as long as they were being used by a good engineer.) Tearing apart a mono audio track with no-dynamic range into it's component tracks is very time-consuming and such very, very expensive because you've got to pay those people doing that work. To do the english dub right, with the right music, not leftovers from the wrong series, what I outline is the way it'd have to happen. Otherwise, people aren't going to buy it.


Audio restoration can be time consuming.

Yeah, I know because I have to do it for every episode of the TZ podcast do to the highly noisy source audio from a number of the participants. Shoot, to work over what may ultimate boil down to only 40 minutes of audio can take 6-10 hours before the dyanmic range is useful and the noise minimized to a listenable level and a listenable dyanmic range both in terms of EQ and volume. Yes, I'm not working in a Pro-Tools studio with thousand dollar plugins, but even if I were it wouldn't cut that much time off of it, because I've worked in those programs and those situations for school. The difference isn't the amount of time put in so much as the end result - it's glossier, but it still takes a lot of time - some times more time because you've got many variables and options that can be utilized.


I am sure it's going to cost money just to restore the animation, they may not have enough in the budget for fixing the audio, and instead it would be cheaper to just start over with what they have from later Lupin series.

Because it's different music that doesn't fit. Besides, we have no idea whether any money is being put into restoration anyway. Again, even if it is, the only thing that could be done is noise removal and EQ on the original Japanese audio as far anything that's reasonable. Otherwise you're talking 7 figures for the audio reprocessing so you've got source elements for an proper english dub that would actually benefit the release rather than be seen as a way of cheating the fans. Seriously, it's just a lot more cost-effective and more importantly fan-pleasing to just do noise-removal and EQ on the Japanese audio. It also greatly reduces the amount of time and money each volume needs to be produced.

Heck, even if they did use the S2 source elements, re-editing those elements into a score that fits Season 1 is a lot tricker and time consuming than you would think. I spend plenty of time on the podcast doing edit work too, and that's inspite of the fact that Ben Applegate in South Korea actually splits that responsiblity with me, and we're not always doing the cleanest job of it. Foley and OST are the most intensive elements to edit for a series, and this would be editing that'd have to be done on top working on the dub vocals themselves. If it's a choice of 8 hours per half hour on noise cleanup and EQ, or 50 hours per episode for a complete from scratch dub, I'd go with the 8 hour option, especially since the 50 hour option might lose you fans.

[Lord Dalek]

Currently, Lupin the III exists purely on 16mm with optical sound. That means all elements are mixed completely together and cannot be broken apart. If it had a manetic soundtrack an english dub would be possible since the music and effects elements exist independently of each other, but as it stands no.

And Kosei's remade music pieces he did for the OST release three years ago wouldn't work either as they don't quite synch.

[Treadwell]

Given what can been done with a soundmixer and a PC, it's possible. It's just a pain in the but to do it.


I have worked and corresponded with professional sound engineers. Seamlessly removing dialogue from a track with music and effects already mixed in is impossible. You can do things to minimize it somewhat, but it cannot be just zapped away.

[Dark Fact]

Well, either Discotek or Geneon could release the Lupin III first series dual language with the original japanese language track and music and BGM intact and put an english dub on it with new scores considering that the old music and SFX are impossible to restore today. :sad:

I don't want the companies to scrap the original japanese track altogether because the music in it is pretty damn catchy! "Nice Guy Lupin" is worth purchasing the series alone for.

[Umino]

Is the music in Lupin III (first series) really as good as everyone says? I've only seen the opening, and I was not impressed.

Ethier way, when this gets released I want a sub track. Dub or no dub.

[Dark Fact]

Is the music in Lupin III (first series) really as good as everyone says? I've only seen the opening, and I was not impressed.
The opening isn't that good but the episode background BGM is quite funky. I believe an american jazz musician was hired to provide some singing in the background. He's the one that sings about Lupin's Walther P38 during the action scenes. :cool:

[Daizaburo Estes]

The opening isn't that good

*dun dun* Loop-ON duh THIR-IRRRD *dun dun* Loop-ON duh THIR-IRRRD Loop-ON Loop-ON Loop-ON Loop-ON du nuh neh nuh neh nuh neh NUHHH

That's about all I've seen of the opening, but I think that's all I needed to see. :D

But in all seriousness, I'm really looking forward to this show...if Geneon doesn't have it, that is. :/

[Paul_Cousins]

I have worked and corresponded with professional sound engineers. Seamlessly removing dialogue from a track with music and effects already mixed in is impossible. You can do things to minimize it somewhat, but it cannot be just zapped away.On analog sound you're right. You're think of cutting the audio apart exactly where the sounds happen on the timestamp of the video.

But you can do it if you convert the sounds to digital and then run programs that separate the sounds by the pitch, audio volume and serparates the sounds by following a 3D model of the peaks and valleys of the wave spectrum of those sounds.

Converting music to MP3 codec does something similar, in a more simple way, in that it only records the parts of the audio that the human ear can hear and deleting the rest.

[Karl Olson]

But you can do it if you convert the sounds to digital and then run programs that separate the sounds by the pitch, audio volume and serparates the sounds by following a 3D model of the peaks and valleys of the wave spectrum of those sounds.

Except that in the case of a film as old Lupin the dynamic range of the audio is limited (not because it's gotten old but because that was the limitations of audio technology at that time,) thus there is a lot frequency over-lap between the sound effects, the musical soundtrack and the vocal performance, so the individual audio element can't be properly isolated without damaging them. Not to mention that type of audio restoration and decomposition work is, as I said earlier, immensely expensive if only because it requires a world class enginneer in a world class audio production facility and a lot of time, even with the modern analysis techniques.

[Paul_Cousins]

Except that in the case of a film as old Lupin the dynamic range of the audio is limited (not because it's gotten old but because that was the limitations of audio technology at that time,) thus there is a lot frequency over-lap between the sound effects, the musical soundtrack and the vocal performance, so the individual audio element can't be properly isolated without damaging them. Not to mention that type of audio restoration and decomposition work is, as I said earlier, immensely expensive if only because it requires a world class enginneer in a world class audio production facility and a lot of time, even with the modern analysis techniques.But it can be done, which is what I was pointing out to Treadwell that it is not impossible to do. It just probably not worth the cost to do.

[Karl Olson]

But it can be done, which is what I was pointing out to Treadwell that it is not impossible to do. It just probably not worth the cost to do.

Actually, depending on the source it might be effectively impossible. If there is too much overlap in the vocal and non-vocal elements in terms of frequency spectrum and over all volume, it could very well be impossible even with high-grade spectrum analysis and world-class engineering and mastering, and that's definitely a possibility given the source material (16mm mono doesn't give you a 20-20,000Hz frequency range nor a very impressive Signal-to-Noise ratio.) In fact, given that it would be worth it in Japan if it could be done, I'd have to assume that they've already tried it and failed.

[Paul_Cousins]

Actually, depending on the source it might be effectively impossible. If there is too much overlap in the vocal and non-vocal elements in terms of frequency spectrum and over all volume, it could very well be impossible even with high-grade spectrum analysis and world-class engineering and mastering, and that's definitely a possibility given the source material (16mm mono doesn't give you a 20-20,000Hz frequency range nor a very impressive Signal-to-Noise ratio.) In fact, given that it would be worth it in Japan if it could be done, I'd have to assume that they've already tried it and failed.If the audio is that degraded, it may just be best to have a fresh new English dub with new music and new sounds.

[Lord Dalek]

If the audio is that degraded, it may just be best to have a fresh new English dub with new music and new sounds.
Which is likely to happen if a dub is to be attempted at all.

[Karl Olson]

If the audio is that degraded, it may just be best to have a fresh new English dub with new music and new sounds.

No, impossible to separate doesn't mean unlistenable. Separating the individual sounds off an old Beetles LP might be impossible. Ditto for say, old Looney Tunes from the 30's and 40's. However, they are still listenable and watchable and enjoyable. Even restorable in terms of noise reduction which is a very separate issue from audio decomposition. Shoot, I've used old public-domain films as audio sources for samples in music, and they are assuredly in worse shape than the Lupin masters, but that doesn't mean they are hard on the ears nor unrestorable. They just are impossible to separable into component elements like strings and vocals.

[Paul_Cousins]

No, impossible to separate doesn't mean unlistenable. Separating the individual sounds off an old Beetles LP might be impossible. Ditto for say, old Looney Tunes from the 30's and 40's. However, they are still listenable and watchable and enjoyable. Even restorable in terms of noise reduction which is a very separate issue from audio decomposition. Shoot, I've used old public-domain films as audio sources for samples in music, and they are assuredly in worse shape than the Lupin masters, but that doesn't mean they are hard on the ears nor unrestorable. They just are impossible to separable into component elements like strings and vocals.If the audio quality is lower than the 20,000Hz frequency range, most of those who listen to it in the present will think something is wrong with the audio.

[Karl Olson]

If the audio quality is lower than the 20,000Hz frequency range, most of those who listen to it in the present will think something is wrong with the audio.

No, because many people can't hear past 15,000Hz. Good studio engineers are lucky if they crack 25,000hz, and even then, very good studio-grade headphones top out at 30,000Hz and studio-monitor speakers are about 3000-5000 below that.

BTW 44,100kHz on your computer or a CD isn't actually 44.1. It's only 22.05 in actual sound reproduction at best. The frequency listed in your computer is the the Nyquist frequency. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist_frequency) Ditto for mp3s and so on. In fact, when it comes to old films (like Lupin series 1, old Looney Tunes and such,) the actual frequency (as opposed to the Nyquist needed to reprasent it digitally,) is probably as low 15,000Hz, maybe even lower. This is then compounded by the fact that rather than reaching in with low bass in 20-60Hz range, it's likely more like 150Hz and probably more like 250Hz for the bottom end of the bass sounds, when noise doesn't get in the way of it.

However, that doesn't make it unlistenable or unrestorable. It just makes it near impossible if not impossible to decompile the audio into individual elements because rather than having a range like this:
****************************************

it's like this:
XXXXXXXX**********************XXXXXXXXXX

X=no usable audio data in the frequency range.

[Paul_Cousins]

BTW 44,100kHz on your computer or a CD isn't actually 44.1. It's only 22.05 in actual sound reproduction at best.I already know this considering ATI's latest tv capture programs use a trick where by you can set the audio to 48,000khz, but it samples the audio at 24,000khz (or 44.100khz at 22,500khz sample) to keep the audio file size way down and it works very well with no noticeable audio degradation.


However, that doesn't make it unlistenable or unrestorable. It just makes it near impossible if not impossible to decompile the audio into individual elements because rather than having a range like this:If human hearing can tell the difference between the different sounds, then it is still possible to decomplie it. If not, then the sound it to degraded to be useable.

[Dark Fact]

*dun dun* Loop-ON duh THIR-IRRRD *dun dun* Loop-ON duh THIR-IRRRD Loop-ON Loop-ON Loop-ON Loop-ON du nuh neh nuh neh nuh neh NUHHH
You just proved my point.

[Karl Olson]

If human hearing can tell the difference between the different sounds, then it is still possible to decomplie it. If not, then the sound it to degraded to be useable.


Actually no, but whatever. But hey, you've obviously got what you believe, so I'm done arguing about the point beyond this last point: fact is, it's cripplingly expensive even if it is possible, and noone is going to buy something that's English-only (see Mobile Suit Gundam first series being clearanced most everywhere it turned up,) especially something that's been rescored, so realistically, we are talking Japanese audio, as is with noise reduction, maybe. That's the economics of it.

[Dark Fact]

Actually no, but whatever. But hey, you've obviously got what you believe, so I'm done arguing about the point beyond this last point: fact is, it's cripplingly expensive even if it is possible, and noone is going to buy something that's English-only (see Mobile Suit Gundam first series being clearanced most everywhere it turned up,) especially something that's been rescored, so realistically, we are talking Japanese audio, as is with noise reduction, maybe. That's the economics of it.
That, and the stink fans raised over an omitted episode due to Tomino's personal hatred of it.

[Karl Olson]

That, and the stink fans raised over an omitted episode due to Tomino's personal hatred of it.

Yeah, that certainly didn't aid anything. And considering how much people disliked the changed music in Zeta, well, I can't help but think doing the samething in Lupin would be stupid. Especially Miyazaki Lupin.

[Dark Fact]

Karl, I doubt that would be the case for Lupin here. Zeta's music was changed because Bandai didn't want to pay extra royalties to the american composer who worked on that song. Even during the Streamline days the classic Lupin music was retained.

In any case, I'm looking forward to the announcement on who really has the first series and I will add it to my "To buy" list in the future. :) I actually saw some fansubs of it a couple years ago and the content still holds up!

[Paul_Cousins]

noone is going to buy something that's English-only (see Mobile Suit Gundam first series being clearanced most everywhere it turned up,) especially something that's been rescored, so realistically, we are talking Japanese audio, as is with noise reduction, maybe. That's the economics of it.Using MSG as an example is foolish. That was not only a bad English dub, and Ocean Group can and has done much better, but they omitted an episode.

On the another hand, selling a English dub is fine as long as the dub is good, it's mostly unedited (I really don't need to see a shower scene of preteen girls) and is sold at a cheap price (6 or 7 episodes on a disc for $9-$12 dollars), like for example the Zoids Chaotic Century/Guardian Force DVDs that Viz has released, which I bought the whole set last month.

[ChibiGoku]

As FAR as I know, MSG was pretty much uncut. There were differences, but they were mostly video changes possibly made by the japanese producers, to make it more... "modern". But I could be wrong.

(God knows why they changed the opening and ending song however in the later episodes...Not that's a bad thing.)

[Paul_Cousins]

As FAR as I know, MSG was pretty much uncut. There were differences, but they were mostly video changes possibly made by the japanese producers, to make it more... "modern". But I could be wrong.You are wrong in that they omited an entire episode in the MSG release and the English dub to the MSG series was more wooden than English oak. :sweat:

[ChibiGoku]

You are wrong in that they omited an entire episode in the MSG release and the English dub to the MSG series was more wooden than English oak. :sweat:

Maybe i was just me, but I actually enjoyed the english dub for MGS.

Besides, the omitted episode was said to be done because the Creator didn't like it. So it's not entirly Bandai's fault.

[Paul_Cousins]

Maybe i was just me, but I actually enjoyed the english dub for MGS.

Besides, the omitted episode was said to be done because the Creator didn't like it. So it's not entirly Bandai's fault.Compared to Ocean Group's (the english dub company) work on Ranma 1/2 and Gundam Wing, their work on the MSG series was amateurish at best.

And since I know the voice actors can do better, I have to think that it was the translators fault.

I mean for example, in the english dub, they did not call "White Base" (their ship's name), "White Base". It was ridiculous. :rolleyes:

[Botman]

I mean for example, in the english dub, they did not call "White Base" (their ship's name), "White Base". It was ridiculous. :rolleyes:

Um...yes they did...

[Paul_Cousins]

Um...yes they did...No, they called "White Base", "Trogon Horse".

Please keep in mind I am talking about the MSG dub series, not the MSG movies.

[RedTail]

Compared to Ocean Group's (the english dub company) work on Ranma 1/2 and Gundam Wing, their work on the MSG series was amateurish at best.

And since I know the voice actors can do better, I have to think that it was the translators fault.

I mean for example, in the english dub, they did not call "White Base" (their ship's name), "White Base". It was ridiculous. :rolleyes:
You must've been smoking crack the entire way through MSG because the words "White Base" are uttered about a billion times every episode. The very first time they're mentioned is episode one: "Get the Gundam components loaded onto White Base!"


No, they called "White Base", "Trogon Horse".

Please keep in mind I am talking about the MSG dub series, not the MSG movies.

Trojan Horse is the codename Zeon uses because they don't know the official name of the ship.

[William C. Maune]

You are wrong in that they omited an entire episode in the MSG release and the English dub to the MSG series was more wooden than English oak. :sweat:

That episode was removed at the request of Tomino the creator of the series, Mr. Gundam himself.

As for the ship names, both "White Base" and "Trojan Horse" were used. The Federation always referred to this ship by its name, "White Base." Zeon referred to it as the "Trojan Horse" because they, being the other side, didn't know what the official Federation name of the ship was.

[KuwabaraTheMan]

No, they called "White Base", "Trogon Horse".

Please keep in mind I am talking about the MSG dub series, not the MSG movies.

dot dot freaking dot

Wow, now I've seen it all.

"Trojan Horse" was the Zeon nickname for the White Base. White Bast was said constantly, how else did someone like me learn the ship's name, I ask you?

The dub of Mobile Suit Gundam was great, in my opinion.

Given that the only two complaints people had(missing episode, changed opening) were both done by Tomino, I can't see what there is not to like.

The acting was great, and it is what got me into Gunam, so it gets points there, too.

[RedTail]

dot dot freaking dot

Wow, now I've seen it all.

"Trojan Horse" was the Zeon nickname for the White Base. White Bast was said constantly, how else did someone like me learn the ship's name, I ask you?

The dub of Mobile Suit Gundam was great, in my opinion.

Given that the only two complaints people had(missing episode, changed opening) were both done by Tomino, I can't see what there is not to like.

The acting was great, and it is what got me into Gunam, so it gets points there, too.

Even the opening change wasn't terrible since we got the original opening for close to half the series.

Maybe w/ the format changes over the next few years, we'll see MSG re-released w/ the missing episode and Japanese audio. Perfect release then!

Hopefully we'll get something similiar w/ Zeta too...

Also, in case no one has mentioned it in this thread yet (I've only skimmed), the fansubbers that claimed to have gotten a C&D letter were pulling a practical joke.

[Treadwell]

On analog sound you're right. You're think of cutting the audio apart exactly where the sounds happen on the timestamp of the video.

No, sir, I'm not.

But anyway, on this we can agree: Lupin rocks. ;)

[Lord Dalek]

Wasn't there a more a technical answer for why we never got MSG in Japanese? I remember hearing that deteriation had a factor in it.

[Golgo13]

Wasn't there a more a technical answer for why we never got MSG in Japanese? I remember hearing that deteriation had a factor in it.

I'm pretty sure it was because a Japanese DVD set did not exist in Japan at the moment. After all, Tomino did remaster and re-record the audio for the Gundam movies.

[Dark Fact]

The word out was that the TV masters for the original series were in such bad shape that they were beyond restoration.

That and Tomino never wanted japanese Gundam fans to reverse import the series. :mad:

[Paul_Cousins]

The word out was that the TV masters for the original series were in such bad shape that they were beyond restoration.

That and Tomino never wanted japanese Gundam fans to reverse import the series. :mad:So every Gundam fan in Japan has region free DVD players. :rolleyes:

[Umino]

So every Gundam fan in Japan has region free DVD players. :rolleyes:

Getting a DVD Player to be region free in'st so hard. Hell, I own quite a few Region 2 DVDs.

[Dark Fact]

Regional encoding is just a big joke anyway! Even PC's you buy at the store with built-in DVD-ROM drives are region-free nowadays.

[Dark Fact]

Update people. Turns out the whole licensing of Lupin III Part I is nothing but a big hoax! :mad:

[Lord Dalek]

Update people. Turns out the whole licensing of Lupin III Part I is nothing but a big hoax! :mad:Color me unsurprised. :shrug:

Anyway - What's your source? ANN and AOD have got nothing.

[Dark Fact]

Anyway - What's your source? ANN and AOD have got nothing.
Read em and weep! (http://forums.animeondvd.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1265039&page=2&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=5&vc=1)

[Crossdive]

so has anyone officially gotten the rights to this series yet, unless I missed it nobody ever said anything, is this confirmed yet?

[AstroNerdBoy]

Regional encoding is just a big joke anyway! Even PC's you buy at the store with built-in DVD-ROM drives are region-free nowadays.
When did that happen? As I understand it, the agreement that the MPAA (or whomever enforces region encoding) has with DVD-ROM makers is that the drives establish a region the first time a movie DVD is inserted into the drive. After that, the region can be changed only four more times (for a total of five switches of the region) before the firmware is supposed to lock the region. There are cracks for firmware and software designed to fool the firmware for those who wish to use their drives as region-free devices.

As for the news that the series is most likely not licensed, I'm not surprised. It is an old series and Lance has stated that the TV-specials and movies aren't doing as well for them as they'd like. Of course Geneon did no one any favors with their domestication dub treatment for the 2nd TV series which aired on Adult Swim. I know that turned off a lot of people.

[Lord Dalek]

so has anyone officially gotten the rights to this series yet, unless I missed it nobody ever said anything, is this confirmed yet? It's a hoax. Lupin III series one will likely never make it to the states.

[Crossdive]

that sucks majorly... oh well, at least Japan has it on DVD, right?

[Paul_Cousins]

It's a hoax. Lupin III series one will likely never make it to the states.If I have a dollar for everytime I heard that about an anime series never making it to the U.S., I would be a very rich man. ;)

[Dark Fact]

When did that happen? As I understand it, the agreement that the MPAA (or whomever enforces region encoding) has with DVD-ROM makers is that the drives establish a region the first time a movie DVD is inserted into the drive. After that, the region can be changed only four more times (for a total of five switches of the region) before the firmware is supposed to lock the region. There are cracks for firmware and software designed to fool the firmware for those who wish to use their drives as region-free devices.
The PC I bought a couple of years ago with its DVD-ROM drive didn't have regional encoding. I was even able to play R2 DVDs on it just fine.

This PC was bought at a Best Buy by the way.

As for Lupin III Part I not being licensed, I'm majorly disappointed. I was surely expecting it to be licensed since it did have some pretty good storylines in it. :sad:

[Umino]

that sucks majorly... oh well, at least Japan has it on DVD, right?

Yup. All of the TV series have been released on Region 2 DVD.

[MGFanJay]

It's a shame this ended up being a hoax, I was really looking forward to actually having the ability to watch this series with an English dub.

[Daizaburo Estes]

That's precisely the reason why no American company wants to pick it up- because they CAN'T. DUB. IT. No American company is willing to take a risk with a subbed-only license, for the most part, especially with something expensive like Lupin III.

[Dark Fact]

That's precisely the reason why no American company wants to pick it up- because they CAN'T. DUB. IT. No American company is willing to take a risk with a subbed-only license, for the most part, especially with something expensive like Lupin III.
They could always use the soundtrack for the first series for recording since there aren't any voiceovers on that, but I'm not sure if that would be legal.

[Lord Dalek]

They could always use the soundtrack for the first series for recording since there aren't any voiceovers on that, but I'm not sure if that would be legal.The actual raw soundtrack tapes are long gone. So that would again be impossible.

[Brent Long]

Maybe i was just me, but I actually enjoyed the english dub for MGS.

Likewise.


Besides, the omitted episode was said to be done because the Creator didn't like it. So it's not entirly Bandai's fault.

It was. I believe Bandai even insisted on it, but Tomino wouldn't budge which I find disappointing considering that the episode wasn't even nearly as bad as he thinks. In fact, that episode was quite excellent especially compared to some of the other weaker episodes.


Compared to Ocean Group's (the english dub company) work on Ranma 1/2 and Gundam Wing, their work on the MSG series was amateurish at best.

This is an arguable situation, but I always the MSG dub was just fine and stood well amongst their other dubs especially given that the working conditions on this must have been hectic given Sunrise and Tomino's input.


And since I know the voice actors can do better, I have to think that it was the translators fault.

Well, it wouldn't be the translator necessarily, but the script adaptors (in this case Robert Chomiak and Kathleen Westlake) and in my opinion the MSG dub had an excelletn script. If any script was disappointing it was the ones used for the MSG movies which were especially disappointing given that I know Robetr Barron can do much MUCH better.


I mean for example, in the english dub, they did not call "White Base" (their ship's name), "White Base". It was ridiculous. :rolleyes:

Other posters have covered this.

[Dark Fact]

The actual raw soundtrack tapes are long gone. So that would again be impossible.
I wasn't referring to them using the raw soundtrack, I was referring to the music soundtrack sold in stores nowadays. Some of those tracks on it don't have voiceovers.

[Lord Dalek]

I wasn't referring to them using the raw soundtrack, I was referring to the music soundtrack sold in stores nowadays. Some of those tracks on it don't have voiceovers.Even then it would be a pain in the ass to synch. Also they only rerecorded certain pieces IIRC.