The resurrection of Clayface in TNBA

[BWDK]

Who else thinks the BTAS team wanted to keep Cayface dead? I think the Clayface/Matt Hagen definately died in Mudslide. If a major enemy ever died in BTAS it was Clayface.
In TNBA the animation team probably realized that Clayface' death was too early and that there was still potential for other good episodes, so they had to bring him back.

I believe that the Clayface we see in TNBA is not the Matt Hagen Clayface we used to know. The Matt Hagen CF died in Mudslide, there is no way I'm buying that he survived it when he dissolved. IMO the TNBA Clayface is Clayface 2, a new creature created by the dissolving part of Clayface 1 and the chemicals in the water. I think that Clayface 2 does no longer have Matt Hagens consience (sp?) and memories. For me the BTAS Clayface and the TNBA Clayface are two seperate characters.

Any thoughts?

[Bobby Boy 101]

umm ok, how about I dont agree w/ any of that, for sure

Just b/c Clayface dissolved in Mudslide doesnt mean he didnt reunite w/ the rest of his...'clay'.

I mean, look at Inque in Batman Beyond: She has hozed down and metled or dissolved, gotten frozen into many many lil chunks of ice, yet she reunited with her other parts later when she could combine again, and was just fine. Then she was rained on, and she in fact 'dissolved' or melted down into the sawer and all over that room--well, next time she appears, there she is, almost good as new, talkin to her daughter. At the end of that ep, she is sprayed with some weird stuff that is supposed to immobilize her permanetly...well, she gets out of it and goes right back to normal, on a quest to kill her daughter (supposedly).

In the BB comics ahe was burned and given antidotes for her condition, but she goes right back to normal after she recovers.

THAT being said, Clayface (who is quite similar to Inque in some ways) could not have died just from being dissolved. He never really 'dissolved', he just kinda 'melted', therefore giving him the ability to later reunite with the rest of himself. He says in Grwoing Pains that he was weak, too weak to even go out in the regular world in disguise or anything.

so ya, ok, dont agree with you, but i will say its a good idea, and umm, ya ok, hope I didnt sound too preachy

[The Mad Hatter]

Actually, the B:TAS team wanted to bring Clayface back. "Growing Pains" was originally written for B:TAS, with Dick in Tim's role, but it never got made. When TNBA started up they knew they had a good script, so they retooled it for Tim. So there ya go.

[Clayface]

I don't have as much of a problem with Clayface coming back as I do with Clayface melting in the first place. He's not really clay - at least, I don't like to think of it that way - his flesh was altered chemically, making it maleable and giving it weird abilities, but it wasn't turned into true clay. So the idea that he'd just dissolve from water never really sat well with me.

[Poison Carley]

What do you think about Ivy turning him into fertilizer in NML? :D ;)

[Clayface]

Actually, I thought that was pretty cool! I got a kick out of that.

[Poison Carley]

Good! :p

[Karkull]

I thought that he'd come back, just not that way.

Speaking of Inque, does anyone ever get the feeling that her last name was Hagen? I know that it probably isn't true, but they never went into her past too deeply on the show (and the revelation would make a lovely connection to a very similar character. In fact, she wouldn't even have to be his daughter--the writers could use a similar trick that Jeph Loeb used in Batman: Dark Victory:

While there was never an official connection, it's revealed that Selina Kyle's interest in Carmine "the Roman" Falcone stems from her belief that he is her biological father.

What if Inque believed that Hagen was her father, even if she had no proof? Then her motivation for undergoing the transformation process could be that she wanted to be "just like her father."

I know that there doesn't have to be a connection, but I just felt that they were too similar not to be related.

[Bobby Boy 101]

ya man thas a cool way of lookin at Inque's past, props to ya!

And hey Carley, i liked the Clayface/Fertilizer thing too, but I have a question: Did Ivy kill him, or did she keep him alive so her plants could keep on growing or w/e from him? B/c couldnt they still benefit even if he was dead?

[Poison Carley]

Well! I do not think he is dead. Let me tell you why. Batman would not let Ivy kill Clayface or anyone else. He was there and he would have stopped her. I think she crippled him and he is unable to move. So he's trapped there forever. Its not like Clayface isn't replaceable. Wasn't there 5 of them?

With that said, I actually think she did kill him. If I said yes, she killed him they would like bring him back right after the Murder storyline. I've always thought she killed him or paralized him. Ivy likes to see people suffer so if she paralized him he would be forced to be waked on and have plants sprout from him while he was impotent do anything about the situation.

If he isn't dead, he might as well be. If he was a person, he would at least be trapped in a wheelchair for the rest of his life. Its not smart to tick off Ivy in the park. ;)

[Poison Carley]

It was NML so Batman might have let her kill Clayface, but I doubt it since he saved the Joker at the end. Actually he turned his back didn't he? I forget. :p

[Nightflower]

Originally posted by Karkull
I thought that he'd come back, just not that way.

Speaking of Inque, does anyone ever get the feeling that her last name was Hagen? I know that it probably isn't true, but they never went into her past too deeply on the show (and the revelation would make a lovely connection to a very similar character. In fact, she wouldn't even have to be his daughter--the writers could use a similar trick that Jeph Loeb used in Batman: Dark Victory:

While there was never an official connection, it's revealed that Selina Kyle's interest in Carmine "the Roman" Falcone stems from her belief that he is her biological father.

What if Inque believed that Hagen was her father, even if she had no proof? Then her motivation for undergoing the transformation process could be that she wanted to be "just like her father."

I know that there doesn't have to be a connection, but I just felt that they were too similar not to be related.

Well, her daughter's name was Deanna Clay (Clayface reference already), but I forget if that's her real last name or the name of a foster family that took her in (I only saw part of the episode).

I know you're speaking hypothetically, but I just thought I'd throw in that tidbit of information. A lovely connection, yes, but one I think that is slightly overused and can get cliched. I think the fact that they are both shapeshifters is enough to get the fans to make their own connections, without writers outrightly saying "Hey, guess what? Inque, a villain in the future, is just like Clayface from the original series!"

[DR. BELCH]

--BWDK may have something. I mean, I thought Clayface seemed more ruthless after his resurrection, and bored of seeking a cure after he'd been so desperate to be Matt Hagen again pre-"Mudslide". I'm not sure about the amnesia angle--but he did just seem to lose all hope, and with it humanity. Freeze did the same thing after his body failed him and Nora married her doctor, and turned from pitiable to monstrous. I suppose what that says is once you have nothing to work towards, you're less of a man.

[The Mad Hatter]

Yup, the name Deanna Clay is a "wink" by the creators, a kind of admission that Inque really is a bit of a futuristic Clayface. Officially, however, Hagan and the Inque family aren't related at all.

[Karkull]

Originally posted by Nightflower


Well, her daughter's name was Deanna Clay (Clayface reference already), but I forget if that's her real last name or the name of a foster family that took her in (I only saw part of the episode).

I didn't notice that. Thanks!