Batgirl on JLU

[Lord Pumpkin]

You know we should tell WB Animation to bring Batgirl to JLU for a Birds of Prey ep. I've been wanting to see Babs back since Mystery of the Batwoman. I also want to see one more Harley and Ivy team-up in JLU if the show's renewed for season 6.:zim: :D

[Andrew T. Hingson]

The lack of Batman characters is due to the Bat-embargo from The Batman and Batman Begins.

[Lord Pumpkin]

The lack of Batman characters is due to the Bat-embargo from The Batman and Batman Begins.

With Black Canary in JLU, this would be perfect for Batgirl to make a one time only role. As for The Batman, that Batgirl doesn't count. I want the Tara Strong Batgirl back.

[Temple Fugate]

With Black Canary in JLU, this would be perfect for Batgirl to make a one time only role. As for The Batman, that Batgirl doesn't count. I want the Tara Strong Batgirl back.Not happening. WB doesn't want to cause "confusion" between two different versions of the same character appearing on different shows/movies. It's a stupid reason, but that's what the executives have decided. We're lucky JLU still has Batman.

[Nin-Nin69]

We're lucky JLU still has Batman.

Well before JLU it was technically Batman and Friends since he did all of the work.

[jv2k]

Hell he still steals the show whenever he's around(pretty good for a "part timer"

[Yojimbo]

Bruce Timm insists he never has had any real inclination to use very many characters from the Batman series much, as the Justice League format gives the welcome chance to debut many, many characters. I think the Bat Embargo is more of a professional courtesy between shows. What matters is, if Timm and the staff can manage to write a good enough script for Batgirl or any character for that matter, they need permission from DC Comics on a routine basis.

As for Harley and Ivy, in my opinion, the team ups have been done, then done some more then over done. "girls nite out" from TNBA and "hard as nails" from Static Shock weren't very entertaining. I'm sure others would recommend the Gotham Girls webtoons, but they are hard to come by. Timm and Dini's Harley and Ivy mini was pretty good as well.

[Link]

Not happening. WB doesn't want to cause "confusion" between two different versions of the same character appearing on different shows/movies. It's a stupid reason, but that's what the executives have decided. We're lucky JLU still has Batman.

I still don't get it. They claim that two characters can not appear at the same time for that reason so little kids can't get confused from continuity, but honestly... would little kids even know the concept of DCAU continuity?

On the topic, I do not have a particular interest in seeing Batgirl on JLU, but hell, I would take any Batman Character on JLU right now. I've never counted Deadshot or any of them as just because they are Batman Villians in the comics doesn't automatically make them that in the show.

[James]

I still don't get it. They claim that two characters can not appear at the same time for that reason so little kids can't get confused from continuity, but honestly... would little kids even know the concept of DCAU continuity?
Because it goes further than little kids opinion. You have one show devoted to establishing a new Batman universe, it's hardly fair to make their task structuring that universe - particularly after such a massive tenure of the previous - if you are letting the old universe run a seperate bat intensive continuity. That's partially why embargos occur, to allow new versions have the space they require to establish their identity without fighting with another. Naturally, beyond that, you have all the toy contracts and money that works with that. If you have seperate companies, one isn't going to want to compete with another model of the same character and if they are the same, why split interest in one character range by having to manufacture two when you could consolidate on one?

Whether the toy contracts are anything like I describe I really don't know. It's not my field, but my point is that embargos are more than just about being a pain or not understanding the audience. There is far more rationale behind them.

Again, JLU isn't a vehicle for Batman, it just has Batman in it. Treated as such and you see why the issue of the Batman ilk is a small one. Batman's had years of exposure under Timm and Co. Now there is another group trying to give a new perspective. We should all respect the need for them to have the space they require to do that and allow Timm's group to enjoy the challenge of confronting new and different characters in JLU without any grumbles! :)

Perhaps the question is could The Batman do a Bird Of Prey like scenerio in the future? They are the ones which hold the Gotham mantle.

[A.J]

You know SJJ, I wish that The Batman show would be as good or even better than BTAS to consider a good Birds of Prey story, but it isnt. I wont bash the show but it just isnt as good as its precessor. A big shame, really, I wish we would have gotten something way better...

[Alex Weitzman]

Perhaps the question is could The Batman do a Bird Of Prey like scenerio in the future? They are the ones which hold the Gotham mantle.

Seeing as that would probably rob us of Huntress and Canary, I'd be loath to suggest it.

[James]

Seeing as that would probably rob us of Huntress and Canary, I'd be loath to suggest it.

Lol. I hadn't thought of that! You'd probably find - and I use the term embargo loosely - that those Canary is "embargoed" from The Batman as the Batman characters are from JLU. It comes down to concept relevance. Canary is fairly closely related to the Justice groups while Huntress, while part of a quite interesting subplot a few years back, is not. Huntress probably would fall quite naturally into The Batman, clearly she is seperate enough as a copyright character not to fall under the natural Gotham group, but if The Batman required her, I'm sure she would move over.

So was can why BOP would be difficult for both show.... plus, I can't see The Batman doing anything so adult as making Barbara into Oracle. A vague homage would be possible if it wasn't for the complex politics involved in having so many DC treats at one time!

[JesseCuster]

Call me crazy, but I'd like to see Cassandra Cain on JLU. I never really got into the Barbara Gordon Batgirl.

[PeterFries]

Wasn't Batgirl originally in Simone's "Double Date" as a Birds of Prey homage?

[MR.MXYZPTLK]

You know SJJ, I wish that The Batman show would be as good or even better than BTAS to consider a good Birds of Prey story, but it isnt. I wont bash the show but it just isnt as good as its precessor. A big shame, really, I wish we would have gotten something way better...

Yeah though the batmans improved its still a pretty bad show (in my opinian) but I don' tmind its like batman forever or adam west there are many diffrent sides to the dark knight

[PTurkey]

Call me crazy, but I'd like to see Cassandra Cain on JLU. I never really got into the Barbara Gordon Batgirl.

I'd want her in JLU too. And she'd probably be able to escape the embargo if you don't use the Batgirl name. DC Comics hardly considers her to be Batgirl anyway.

[sdp]

I still don't get it. They claim that two characters can not appear at the same time for that reason so little kids can't get confused from continuity, but honestly... would little kids even know the concept of DCAU continuity?


of course kids know the concept of a DCAU with the crossovers, i hate when people think just because they are young they don't appreciate continuity like older fans do. When i was little i understood continuity perfectly.

I also knew exactly that there can be more than two versions of said character, i used to watch superfriends and filmation batman at the same time as B:TAS but i never thought one was the other, same with other shows.

[James]

of course kids know the concept of a DCAU with the crossovers, i hate when people think just because they are young they don't appreciate continuity like older fans do. When i was little i understood continuity perfectly.

I also knew exactly that there can be more than two versions of said character, i used to watch superfriends and filmation batman at the same time as B:TAS but i never thought one was the other, same with other shows.

As I said, no one thinks that except fans, and they only think it because they think other people think it.... so really, no one thinks it!

What the industry does know, is making two shows with essentially the same central characters offers little benefit to them or the two seperate production groups. Ergo, it doesn't happen and shows are largely consoldiated into their own products.

If the only concern was canon, I don't think there would be an issue here to talk about, period.

[Reverend]

Call me crazy, but I'd like to see Cassandra Cain on JLU. I never really got into the Barbara Gordon Batgirl.

Not crazy at all.
While I've never been much of a comic book fan, I did happen to pick up one of the "No Man's Land" graphic novels as part of one of those mail order book clubs and I have to say I became an instant fan of Cass. I've since read the other books to feature her story and found her to be one of the most interesting comic book characters I've ever read (my releative inexperiance notwithstanding), there's just something about the idea of an innocent killer that is oddly compelling and completely appropriate for the Batman ethos.

I would be curious to see how the crew would adapt her for the animated universe, given that her major antagonist and father is currently not an established charater and I daresay that there might already be too many "female bats" after Barb and Batwoman.

It's a shame that they're not still making Batman Beyond since that series might have been the ideal place to put her.

I suppose if the creative team really wanted her in there, they might take elements of the Justice League Elite story, skew it and introduce her as Kasumi.

One small point though, depending on how you view continuity, technically Cass has (probably) already been seen, albeit in the alternate "Savage" timeline.

[melibell21]

Wasn't Batgirl originally in Simone's "Double Date" as a Birds of Prey homage?

when gail wrote the episode, she wanted to have oracle/batgirl/babs in it to get the full effect but there was the stupid embargo thingy. i'm surprised we even got huntress, but i'm glad we did cuz she made that last season awesome!

[John Cage]

when gail wrote the episode, she wanted to have oracle/batgirl/babs in it to get the full effect but there was the stupid embargo thingy. i'm surprised we even got huntress, but i'm glad we did cuz she made that last season awesome!

From what I've heard B.T and Dwayne McDuffie say on the topic, the original plan was for Batgirl to break a leg in a fight and Batman to restrict her to the sidelines while she recovers. She winds up working with Black Canary via the Bat-computer, Birds of Prey style. I don't remember if Huntress was part of that pitch, but it was turned down anyway. Maybe someone else out there remembers the details better.

In any case, the only Bat-family characters I'd want to see on JLU are Nightwing -- it'd be nice if he were in the Justice League, or, alternately, leading the Outsiders, and Clayface and the Scarecrow in the Legion. At the very least, I'd take Roxy Rocket and Lock-Up in the Legion of Doom.

I'd be nice to see some Bat-characters again, but it's not going to happen, sadly.

Have a good day.
John Cage

[Harper]

Yeah, they could probably get around the embargo by making her into Oracle for a bit. Like with the broken leg idea. Not a permanent disability, but a serious injury that she has to recover from and give up being Batgirl.

[James]

Yeah, they could probably get around the embargo by making her into Oracle for a bit. Like with the broken leg idea. Not a permanent disability, but a serious injury that she has to recover from and give up being Batgirl.

No more than they can get around using Nightwing because it's Robin in Teen Titans. It's a character issue. It's still Barbara Gordon. It's still Batgirl. It's still taking a character the official "Gotham show" is trying to establish and using her at JLU's whim. It's a no go. I think that's understandable. She's not integral to JLU, even if she's been on the rosta as Oracle, while she's far more important to "The Batman". Makes sense TB gets full rights to establish the new version of her without having to fight against the memory of the old one. Seems polite if you ask me. :)

As b.t said, it wasn't a big deal not being able to use her anyway. There are loads of characters to toy with and unlike some of the very loyal fanbase, the creative crew seem to have got past the need to use Batman characters every episode and are exploring the rich diversity that is the rest of DC - the whole intent of a show like JLU! :)