Nintendo Promises a secret surprise feature on the Rev?

[Strollymonster]

Virgin (http://gamesnews.virgin.net/Virgin/Lifestyle/Games/virginGamesNewsDetail/0,13470,926388_playbetandwin,00.html) reports:


Nintendo promise Revolution surprise



Nintendo has indicated that the forthcoming Revolution console will include a special feature, which will not be revealed until later in the year. In a post on the Nintendo of Europe website, the games giant suggested that they have a few surprises in store before the eagerly anticipated machine hits the shelves.

The company has already released details of its innovative one-handed controller and the availability of downloadable content, but are promising more innovations in its bid to win the next-generation console war. The site states: "On an as-yet-unannounced date in 2006 Nintendo will launch its next home console, code-named 'Revolution' - which will truly spark a revolution in gaming.

"We've already been given a sneak peek at its potential with the revelation of the groundbreaking one-handed controller with motion-sensitive technology. "We already know that Revolution will let you play all your Nintendo GameCube titles and also a back catalogue of downloadable Nintendo classics.

"But if you think that's all there is to know about Revolution, think again... 2006 is going to be very interesting indeed."

This is an interesting tidbit...what could they mean? Maybe it'll sync with iPod hardware, like some have suggested?

[Chad Bonin]

Go read my iGame theory... although, this isn't really news. It's been suggested since the Freehand was shown.

[Demonic Raven]

Heh...sometimes, you really gotta love Nintendo. Once again they are stirring the pool of rumors and speculation, but it's obviously to their benefit with all of the extra hype generated.

As for what it will be...uh, I don't know. Honestly, I couldn't tell you what else the Revolution can possibly need.

[Invader_Spooch]

Heh...sometimes, you really gotta love Nintendo.

No you don't.

Quite frankly, this kind of vague rumor stirring marketing is BEYOND old.

At this point, I could care less what the Revolution does, because I'm so sick of the "OMG teh Revolution with feature COOL THINGS! All good stuff" kind of rumors, waiting months before they even tell you what it is, which never lives up to the hype it generates.

Nuts to this.

[Ninja Murasaki]

I can't wait to find out. It could be something like what happened with the Gamecube. They said there was a secret, but it was just something little. I won't get too excited though.

[mammy2shoesfan]

Well I really hope that Nintendo really uses the fact that they are releasing their system till later in the year to their advantage and really develope something that will turn the gaming world upside down.

[JohnCrichton]

Wireless DS connectivity?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?????????????

Download games to my DS? Yeeeeeeeeessssssssss??? :anime:

[Chad Bonin]

Oh, that's already been announced John. Square-Enix has already announced work on a sequel to Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles (of which I bought the original yesterday). Given the easy Wi-Fi connection of a DS to a DS, a DS to a Rev seems natch.

And, yes, with my iGame theory, you could send demos from iTunes to the DS.

[.Automatisch]

Oh, that's already been announced John. Square-Enix has already announced work on a sequel to Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles (of which I bought the original yesterday). Given the easy Wi-Fi connection of a DS to a DS, a DS to a Rev seems natch.

And, yes, with my iGame theory, you could send demos from iTunes to the DS.

Apple + games = no. Dare I bring up the Pippin? The secret feature should be to play 360 and PS3 games with full FSAA and AF :O... Or maybe it just has a music player...

[Dark Fact]

Um...the Revolution controller has a hidden beam that disables the PS3 and XBOX 360? :confused: :)

[Snailbait]

Um...the Revolution controller has a hidden beam that disables the PS3 and XBOX 360? :confused: :)
Sounds good to me. :)

[Chris Sanders MSX]

No you don't.

Quite frankly, this kind of vague rumor stirring marketing is BEYOND old.

At this point, I could care less what the Revolution does, because I'm so sick of the "OMG teh Revolution with feature COOL THINGS! All good stuff" kind of rumors, waiting months before they even tell you what it is, which never lives up to the hype it generates.

Nuts to this.

Since when is OLD a bad thing? We learn from the past and definetly take from it. And NO Hype ever lives up to what it generates. The Rev will be cool, and has things in store for us and the gaming industry as a whole. Just sit back and watch.

The controller makes me scared though, I just want a good controller to play fighting games on. I read some stuff on it and it looks sweeet for a lot of games but I'm questionable about fighting games.

[JohnCrichton]

*GASP!*

Chris Sanders MSX!!! :eek:

[Noukon]

The controller makes me scared though, I just want a good controller to play fighting games on. I read some stuff on it and it looks sweeet for a lot of games but I'm questionable about fighting games.

That's what the "shell" controller is for!

[Chris Sanders MSX]

shell controller? Feel me in.


*GASP!*

Chris Sanders MSX!!! :eek:

haha yup. I'm baaack after a long time hiatus in the real world. I missed you JC. Got any kids?:zim:

[Artimus Gigan]

shell controller? Feel me in.
It's a gamecube shaped controller that the Revolution remote can attach to the front of

think like the DC controller and how the memory cards were inserted.

[Anniemaniac]

i have no idea what the surpise is but i dont think its gonna live up to the hype, very few things do, i think it'll probably turn out to just be something small and simple that was hyped up way to much, or it'll be something great, but doesnt catch on with gamers.. or i could be totallt wrong and it does turn out to be a "revolution" in the gaming industry.. but im not too excited about it just yet, especially since we know nothing about it... im more worried about this one handed controller :shrug:

[Zach]

Whatever it is, Nintendo is taking a huge gamble. Let's hope it works out for the better.

[Chris Sanders MSX]

It's a gamecube shaped controller that the Revolution remote can attach to the front of

think like the DC controller and how the memory cards were inserted.

I know the Rev will be compaitable with Game Cube controllers so why not just use those.. but then again that was part of what sucked about the Game Cube.

Are there any pictures of the shell, or maybe news bites I could check out?


Whatever it is, Nintendo is taking a huge gamble. Let's hope it works out for the better.

The new controller was a HUGE gamble. In all honesty I expected and wanted Nintendo to kinda sell out and just make a regular controller. However they didn't and it scares me but rises my anticipation for gameplay even more and has me wondering just how and if they'll make it all work.

Every system they've made since SNES has gone in a direction that through people off with the controller design, but in the end the competition wound up adapting what so many thought was crazy.

I don't have any ideas what Nintendo could be hiding up their sleve, maybe a free online network or a stellar 3rd part aquesition or maybe the Rev will double as a microwave. It's way early to be thinking about this but as gamer enthusists this is what we do.

[Tanooki]

The new controller was a HUGE gamble. In all honesty I expected and wanted Nintendo to kinda sell out and just make a regular controller. However they didn't and it scares me but rises my anticipation for gameplay even more and has me wondering just how and if they'll make it all work.

Every system they've made since SNES has gone in a direction that through people off with the controller design, but in the end the competition wound up adapting what so many thought was crazy.

I don't have any ideas what Nintendo could be hiding up their sleve, maybe a free online network or a stellar 3rd part aquesition or maybe the Rev will double as a microwave. It's way early to be thinking about this but as gamer enthusists this is what we do. ...i do need a new microwave... then again, i'm hoping it's nothing dumb like "OMG!!1!! WE PUT A HANDLE ON IT SO YOU CAN CARRY IT TO YOUR FRIENDS HOUSE!!!1!"

[Zach]

Nintendo better make sure that every game has some kind of shell support... I really don't want to be stuck if the normal controller doesn't work with a certain game and it isn't allowed shell support.

[Noukon]

Nintendo better make sure that every game has some kind of shell support... I really don't want to be stuck if the normal controller doesn't work with a certain game and it isn't allowed shell support.

What exactly do you mean? Any publisher would be insane to release a game that doesn't work with any of a system's control accessories.

[Dark Fact]

...i do need a new microwave... then again, i'm hoping it's nothing dumb like "OMG!!1!! WE PUT A HANDLE ON IT SO YOU CAN CARRY IT TO YOUR FRIENDS HOUSE!!!1!"
That's not dumb, that's pretty convenient! I'm amazed SONY or even Microsoft haven't even put that on their consoles.

[Artimus Gigan]

That's not dumb, that's pretty convenient! I'm amazed SONY or even Microsoft haven't even put that on their consoles.

Usualy people just bring their memory cards

But if they bring the system chances are they'll box it anyways, it needs the wires and controllers, not to mention assorted games. It would be too cumbersome and you could risk dropping something

[Caped Crusader]

Originally posted by Chris Sanders MSX
Are there any pictures of the shell, or maybe news bites I could check out?



There aren't any official pictures, but IGN did do a mock-up a while back. Here's a link to the pic: http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/article/651/651559/understanding-the-revolution-controller-20050916041026412.jpg

[Chris Sanders MSX]

There aren't any official pictures, but IGN did do a mock-up a while back. Here's a link to the pic: http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/article/651/651559/understanding-the-revolution-controller-20050916041026412.jpg

Thats pretty cool, let's hope that they fix the configuration problems that the gamecube had, like maybe just reuse the SNES design or something.

[Punisher]

Usualy people just bring their memory cards

But if they bring the system chances are they'll box it anyways, it needs the wires and controllers, not to mention assorted games. It would be too cumbersome and you could risk dropping somethingThe handle makes it it easier to move around the house, I don't think they really mean for you to carry it around your neighborhood or something. With the handle, I can hold the gamecube in one hand and the controller and games in the other, while transporting it from one room to another. It's really convenient.

[Chad Bonin]

Thats pretty cool, let's hope that they fix the configuration problems that the gamecube had, like maybe just reuse the SNES design or something.
My mockup allows it to easily be an SNES or N64 controller (NES is achieved by turning the Freehand on it's side, Gamecube via a standard GCN controller), or a fully functional next gen controller, while addressing some problems (small d-pad, awkward GCN buttons).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/KnuxFive/RevCon.jpg

[Artimus Gigan]

The handle makes it it easier to move around the house, I don't think they really mean for you to carry it around your neighborhood or something. With the handle, I can hold the gamecube in one hand and the controller and games in the other, while transporting it from one room to another. It's really convenient.

I really don't think conveniance counts in that aspect, that's a meager action that's hardly an effective attribute.

[ZeroFate]

Monkeysexizfun!!!!! All we need now is Overkill & Darth and this thread will turn into a 10 page long debate.

Honestly, this is probably gonna turn out to be Megaton 06. I'm ready for both Sony and Nintendo to release SOME kind of new info though. They're both being eerily quiet about their next gen systems...

[.Automatisch]

I really don't think conveniance counts in that aspect, that's a meager action that's hardly an effective attribute.

Yea, it's not that big to begin with...

[Noukon]

Monkeysexizfun!!!!! All we need now is Overkill & Darth and this thread will turn into a 10 page long debate.


I'm Darth. :D

[ClockStomper]

I'm not getting suckered by Nintendo again. 6 months and they'll abandon their console just like they did the Gamecube. There are so many great games that skipped over Gamecube, and their exclusives either were gimmicky retreads or got ported to PS2 eventually.

Mark my words, Revolution will be abandoned and Nintendo will continue to put their focus on the handhelds. So save your money and buy a DS if you want a worthwhile Nintendo system.

[Noukon]

I'm not getting suckered by Nintendo again. 6 months and they'll abandon their console just like they did the Gamecube.

So, you're saying they "abandoned" the GameCube after six months?

That's a good one.


There are so many great games that skipped over Gamecube, and their exclusives either were gimmicky retreads or got ported to PS2 eventually.

I always enjoy these posts. Yes, there are lots of good games that aren't out on the GameCube. The same is, factually, true of both of its competitors, as well.

Also, the console has had a ton of non-gimmicky, non-retread exclusives. You're making pretty harsh statements for someone who is obviously very unfamiliar with it.

[ZeroFate]

I'm Darth. :D
....

You're kidding right? Wow. With all these little debates I've gotten into with you I guess I should've figured that out.

So it's me, JC, Monkey, Darth and Knux5. After all these years we're still sitting here talking about videogames. :p

[Dark Fact]

I really don't think conveniance counts in that aspect, that's a meager action that's hardly an effective attribute.
If you're being so picky, just buy a special carry case for the gamecube that holds the console, controllers, and games. My friend does it all the time in the anime club. Problem solved.


I'm not getting suckered by Nintendo again. 6 months and they'll abandon their console just like they did the Gamecube. There are so many great games that skipped over Gamecube, and their exclusives either were gimmicky retreads or got ported to PS2 eventually.
The NES was supported for a good 10 years before it was eventually retired. The SNES was supported for 7 or 8 years. Both of these systems lasted because of their great sales and game library.

The N64 was dropped like a bad habit due to the fact that Nintendo was getting its ass handed to them by the Sony Playstation and its CD-ROM game library. Nintendo focused a lot on its first and second party line for the N64 and kept the cartridge format while Sony was snatching up third party developers left, right, and center. When Nintendo released the Gamecube, they kicked the N64 out the door and never looked back and who can blame them?

[Noukon]

....

You're kidding right? Wow. With all these little debates I've gotten into with you I guess I should've figured that out.

So it's me, JC, Monkey, Darth and Knux5. After all these years we're still sitting here talking about videogames. :p

Yeah, it's pretty amazing, isn't it? I'd like to think I've gotten a bit smarter about gaming, too (working in the industry for a couple of years'll do that to you).

[Chris Sanders MSX]

....

You're kidding right? Wow. With all these little debates I've gotten into with you I guess I should've figured that out.

So it's me, JC, Monkey, Darth and Knux5. After all these years we're still sitting here talking about videogames. :p

I just don't care any more. haha I'm a Nintendeo fan boy but I still play and like the other systems. A game is a game as long as it's entertaining. It is crazy though how long we've been doing this. I'm a junior in flipping college now and I think i'm late for class. Gotta go!:p

[ClockStomper]

So, you're saying they "abandoned" the GameCube after six months?

That's a good one.



I always enjoy these posts. Yes, there are lots of good games that aren't out on the GameCube. The same is, factually, true of both of its competitors, as well.

Also, the console has had a ton of non-gimmicky, non-retread exclusives. You're making pretty harsh statements for someone who is obviously very unfamiliar with it.

I had only a Gamecube until this Christmas. I got sick of them releasing the same old Mario games over and over. I'd hear of a great game I really wanted, and then on release day it would be announced the Gamecube version was cancelled. Meanwhile, Nintendo would keep releasing these great and innovative games for their handhelds, while the Gamecube got nada.

Me: Hey Nintendo! The other consoles have these great Halo-y, Grand Theft Auto-y things. What have you got?

Nintendo: Uh...bongos?

[Noukon]

I had only a Gamecube until this Christmas. I got sick of them releasing the same old Mario games over and over. I'd hear of a great game I really wanted, and then on release day it would be announced the Gamecube version was cancelled. Meanwhile, Nintendo would keep releasing these great and innovative games for their handhelds, while the Gamecube got nada.

Me: Hey Nintendo! The other consoles have these great Halo-y, Grand Theft Auto-y things. What have you got?

Nintendo: Uh...bongos?

Given that your criticisms only hold true in extremely limited ways ("same old Mario games over and over" only makes sense in context with the Mario Party games, of which there are only a few anyway; I can't think of any multiplatform games that had their GC versions canceled like that) It's pretty obvious that your tastes simply don't align with what the GameCube has to offer.

Personally, I own more GameCube games than I ever have for any console (combine my PS2 and Xbox collections and double that number, and it will still be less). I couldn't be happier with the thing. You weren't "suckered," you made an incorrect choice given your personal taste.

It's kind of like going to a 16-screen movie theater that happens to not be playing any movies you like and telling them they're idiots.

[Artimus Gigan]

Given that your criticisms only hold true in extremely limited ways ("same old Mario games over and over" only makes sense in context with the Mario Party games, of which there are only a few anyway; I can't think of any multiplatform games that had their GC versions canceled like that) It's pretty obvious that your tastes simply don't align with what the GameCube has to offer.

Personally, I own more GameCube games than I ever have for any console (combine my PS2 and Xbox collections and double that number, and it will still be less). I couldn't be happier with the thing. You weren't "suckered," you made an incorrect choice given your personal taste.

It's kind of like going to a 16-screen movie theater that happens to not be playing any movies you like and telling them they're idiots.
There really is not a sure-fire way to gauge what sort of games will be out or are coming out for the system, there are always surprises, and some games end up being canned along the way. They don't exactly tell you every single game that is going to be released when the system first comes out. I mean the N64 had a greater number of exclusive platformers than the GC, the GC also lacked alot og exclusive fighters and RPGs. I mean I only own around 25+ games for the system, where as my n64 was around 55 games, now granted there are still a few exclusive games that I'm considering, even so the game number will still be in the 30's by the system's end. I've got pretty much every exclusive heavy hitter for the system too.

compared to my PS2 collection which is about 3x the size of my GC collection

[Noukon]

There really is not a sure-fire way to gauge what sort of games will be out or are coming out for the system, there are always surprises, and some games end up being canned along the way. They don't exactly tell you every single game that is going to be released when the system first comes out. I mean the N64 had a greater number of exclusive platformers than the GC, the GC also lacked alot og exclusive fighters and RPGs. I mean I only own around 25+ games for the system, where as my n64 was around 55 games, now granted there are still a few exclusive games that I'm considering, even so the game number will still be in the 30's by the system's end. I've got pretty much every exclusive heavy hitter for the system too.

compared to my PS2 collection which is about 3x the size of my GC collection

I really can't tell what any of that means in comparison to my post.

[Artimus Gigan]

I really can't tell what any of that means in comparison to my post.
Point is the GC just had a lackluster library overall. Any way you cut it the system came up short in alot of game areas. It has less of a strong presence than the N64.

If you just want the novelty of using the system, that's fine. If you just want to play 5/4 Star games, you're going to coome up sparce.

[Noukon]

Point is the GC just had a lackluster library overall. Any way you cut it the system came up short in alot of game areas. It has less of a strong presence than the N64.

If you just want the novelty of using the system, that's fine. If you just want to play 5/4 Star games, you're going to coome up sparce.

No, it does not come up short "any way you cut it." It may come up short in some areas compared to other consoles based on your personal game preference, which is the point I was trying to make.

By my own game preferences, there is almost nothing worth playing on the PS2 besides RPGs, and most of those are mediocre. Does that mean it has a terrible game library? No! It means its game library doesn't align with my personal taste. You're trying to quantify your own personal taste as fact, which is completely unreasonable.

Also, what the heck does "the novelty of using the system" even mean?

[Artimus Gigan]

Also, what the heck does "the novelty of using the system" even mean?
Some people just buy games just to use the system. It could be the worst game ever, but as long as it's associated with the system, it's worth playing.

Also the GC never really excelled at any peticular genre, even with RPGs it only had a select handful of exclusives that were good. Playsation got the better RPGs usualy.

Mario Kart and Wave Race were the only good exclusive racers

It had no exclusive fighters aside from SSBM

Metroid Prime and Metroid Prime 2 were the only good FPS on the system, but they had waaay to much scanning which got in the way of the Shooting aspect and trying to dodge hosties. If they left the constant scanning out and not make you get impeded to aquire 100% it would have been better.

Exclusive Platformers was just limited to Mario and Starfox which were just 3 installations and none were particularly 5 star grade

Though it did have alot of exclusive sports titles that featured mario.

Pikmin 1 and 2 was pretty inventive for a puzzle game

I mean there are only a few games for each catagory that stood out or were noticed to some extent, it wasn't like hit after hit after hit like a few of the genres on the other systems.

[Chad Bonin]

If we're talking only exclusives then, you have to take out the Grand Theft Autos, Burnouts, Guilty Gears, Tony Hawks, Viewtiful Joes, etc. from every console's quality games. And thus, the PS2 has very little megahits in my opinion, considering GTAs came out on XBox.

Question though- Do you consider Soul Calibur II's exclusives? If not, then you're ignoring the elephant in the room; GCN's version easily sold the best out of the trio, and is (considered by most) to be one of the best 3D fighters this generation.

[Caped Crusader]

Originally post by Artimus Gigan
Mario Kart and Wave Race were the only good exclusive racers

It's amazing how you always seem to make your opinion sound like fact. Besides, F-Zero GX was another exclusive racer, and it happens to be one the best racers of the last generation, imo.


Originally posted by Artimus Gigan
Metroid Prime and Metroid Prime 2 were the only good FPS on the system, but they had waaay to much scanning which got in the way of the Shooting aspect and trying to dodge hosties. If they left the constant scanning out and not make you get impeded to aquire 100% it would have been better.

Again, your opinion. Metroid isn't just about shooting, it's about exploring. I happen to think the scanning was one of the best parts of MP, and a unique, interesting way of telling the story, as opposed to the scripted cutscenes a lot of other games use (not that I mind cutscenes, I actually enjoy them if they're well done, but I appreciated Metroid Prime's approach).


Originally posted by Artimus Gigan
I mean there are only a few games for each catagory that stood out or were noticed to some extent, it wasn't like hit after hit after hit like a few of the genres on the other systems.

What are some examples of these "hit after hit" genres on the other systems? I could be wrong, but I get the impression from a lot of your posts that you try to find a reason to rag on the GameCube (or Nintendo in general for that matter) any chance you get.

[TheMecca]

Metroid Prime and Metroid Prime 2 were the only good FPS on the system, but they had waaay to much scanning which got in the way of the Shooting aspect and trying to dodge hosties. If they left the constant scanning out and not make you get impeded to aquire 100% it would have been better.
Stereotype: ALL games that give you a gun, and is in the first person, have to be shoot-em-up.
As many sources around Nintendo have said, Metroid Prime/Echoes is NOT a "Run and Gun", Haloesque game, nor is it trying to BE Halo/Quake/Doom/Half-Life. It's JUST like the other games, except in 3D. Plus, in my opinion (and in several others' too) the scanning was a very good form of gameplay.

Plus, as Caped Crusader said above, your opinion isn't exactly fact.

[Chad Bonin]

I believe the best description for the Metroid Prime series is "First Person Adventure". If it was anything like Halo, I wouldn't have four cases on my shelf with the words "Metroid Prime" in them.

[Artimus Gigan]

If we're talking only exclusives then, you have to take out the Grand Theft Autos, Burnouts, Guilty Gears, Tony Hawks, Viewtiful Joes, etc. from every console's quality games. And thus, the PS2 has very little megahits in my opinion, considering GTAs came out on XBox.

Question though- Do you consider Soul Calibur II's exclusives? If not, then you're ignoring the elephant in the room; GCN's version easily sold the best out of the trio, and is (considered by most) to be one of the best 3D fighters this generation.
No I don't consider SCII to be exclusive, but I think that Soul Calibur III is superior to II and don't consider III to be exclusive either(since it's being brought to the 360). But Tekken Tag,4 and 5 is exclsuive, Guilty Gear X and Isuka is exclusive, Virtua fighter 4 and Evo are exclusive. But the GC controller is the worst controller ment for fighters, and there was no good arcade pad or stick for the system itself in america. PS2/Xbox atleast had the option of buying the Capcom/Nuby pads and sticks and there was the Namco stick for Tekken.

[Artimus Gigan]

It's amazing how you always seem to make your opinion sound like fact. Besides, F-Zero GX was another exclusive racer, and it happens to be one the best racers of the last generation, imo.



Again, your opinion. Metroid isn't just about shooting, it's about exploring. I happen to think the scanning was one of the best parts of MP, and a unique, interesting way of telling the story, as opposed to the scripted cutscenes a lot of other games use (not that I mind cutscenes, I actually enjoy them if they're well done, but I appreciated Metroid Prime's approach).



What are some examples of these "hit after hit" genres on the other systems? I could be wrong, but I get the impression from a lot of your posts that you try to find a reason to rag on the GameCube (or Nintendo in general for that matter) any chance you get.

F Zero is mid ground, it's not the best futuristic high speed racer, but it's not the worst either

Metroid Prime may not be all about Shooting, but they certainly make it seem that way with the hordes of Halo-scale enemy onslaughts they throw at you. The scanning is a hinderance in the heat of battle, if you want 100% you have to constantly check that no-new face has come out and could be a one time spawn(like the Ram Hornets). Exploration is something games like Shadow of the Colossis does, that's exploration, there are no actual stages or walled off quadrents like in Prime.

Also the Hiot after hit ment that there isn't a long long break between 5 star titles, the last excelent exclusive game on the GC was Fire Emblem, before that it was resident evil 4(but that was soon made non-exclusive) now we have a longer wait for Zelda leaving alot of dead space between now and then. They don't fill the releases schedule with anything that could even be an exclusive relative hit like Katamari.

I mean I think the Gamecube has been a weak show compared to it's N64 predecessor. I really don't favor one particular company(I own more N64 games than I own Playstation games, and I have pretty much 95% of the big hits on both systems), but it's certainly not a strong showing they made on the console as their previous ones. It tampered off, but then again they seem to be focusing more on their next system(like Microsoft) which will hopefully be much better.

[Chad Bonin]

No I don't consider SCII to be exclusive, but I think that Soul Calibur III is superior to II and don't consider III to be exclusive either(since it's being brought to the 360). But Tekken Tag,4 and 5 is exclsuive, Guilty Gear X and Isuka is exclusive, Virtua fighter 4 and Evo are exclusive. But the GC controller is the worst controller ment for fighters, and there was no good arcade pad or stick for the system itself in america. PS2/Xbox atleast had the option of buying the Capcom/Nuby pads and sticks and there was the Namco stick for Tekken.

F Zero is mid ground, it's not the best futuristic high speed racer, but it's not the worst either

Metroid Prime may not be all about Shooting, but they certainly make it seem that way with the hordes of Halo-scale enemy onslaughts they throw at you. The scanning is a hinderance in the heat of battle, if you want 100% you have to constantly check that no-new face has come out and could be a one time spawn(like the Ram Hornets). Exploration is something games like Shadow of the Colossis does, that's exploration, there are no actual stages or walled off quadrents like in Prime.

Also the Hiot after hit ment that there isn't a long long break between 5 star titles, the last excelent exclusive game on the GC was Fire Emblem, before that it was resident evil 4(but that was soon made non-exclusive) now we have a longer wait for Zelda leaving alot of dead space between now and then. They don't fill the releases schedule with anything that could even be an exclusive relative hit like Katamari.

I mean I think the Gamecube has been a weak show compared to it's N64 predecessor. I really don't favor one particular company(I own more N64 games than I own Playstation games, and I have pretty much 95% of the big hits on both systems), but it's certainly not a strong showing they made on the console as their previous ones. It tampered off, but then again they seem to be focusing more on their next system(like Microsoft) which will hopefully be much better.
Wow, so many fallacies.

Soul Calibur III has not been announced for the 360. If it has, please link. I know it's been heavily rumored, enough so that I'm holding off on buying the game.
Guilty Gear X is exclusive yes, but Guilty Gear XX (in the form of #Reload) and Isuka are on the XBox.
GCN Controller being the "worst controller ment (sic) for fighters" is, once again, your opinion, not fact. I heavily enjoyed playing SCII with the GCN controller than SCI with the DC controller. No good arcade sticks? May I remind you of the SCII joystick that came out with adapters for all systems? Or the multitudes of actual arcade sticks made for all three consoles? The same goes for F-Zero GX (technically not an exclusive, given the existence of AX, but we'll classify it) being a "mid ground" title. I'd say it's better than Wipeout, and at least has a better universe to race in. Also, what you classify as a hit doesn't mean everyone else does. Someone may have considered Pokémon XD a hit, or Geist even (although I would rather not throw those two out, as I'm not sure of their release schedule). Same thing for Mario Superstar Baseball (which my friend has been raving about).
There are tons of walled off areas in Metroid Prime. I'd remember enough times that I would enter a room, scan everything, and then activate "the Halo hordes". If you don't want to scan everything, don't. For me? I had enough reflexes that I could scan something while dodging it's attacks, learn it's weak point, and then start blasting.

[Artimus Gigan]

Wow, so many fallacies.

Soul Calibur III has not been announced for the 360. If it has, please link. I know it's been heavily rumored, enough so that I'm holding off on buying the game.
Guilty Gear X is exclusive yes, but Guilty Gear XX (in the form of #Reload) and Isuka are on the XBox.
GCN Controller being the "worst controller ment (sic) for fighters" is, once again, your opinion, not fact. I heavily enjoyed playing SCII with the GCN controller than SCI with the DC controller. No good arcade sticks? May I remind you of the SCII joystick that came out with adapters for all systems? Or the multitudes of actual arcade sticks made for all three consoles? The same goes for F-Zero GX (technically not an exclusive, given the existence of AX, but we'll classify it) being a "mid ground" title. I'd say it's better than Wipeout, and at least has a better universe to race in. Also, what you classify as a hit doesn't mean everyone else does. Someone may have considered Pokémon XD a hit, or Geist even (although I would rather not throw those two out, as I'm not sure of their release schedule). Same thing for Mario Superstar Baseball (which my friend has been raving about).
There are tons of walled off areas in Metroid Prime. I'd remember enough times that I would enter a room, scan everything, and then activate "the Halo hordes". If you don't want to scan everything, don't. For me? I had enough reflexes that I could scan something while dodging it's attacks, learn it's weak point, and then start blasting.
Meh the universe really doesn't do it in terms of effecting the gameplay. Games like wipeout add more variables to the outcome(i.e. weapons and vehicle damage). They are both futuristic high speed racers both featuring many of the same base elements in stages and vehicles. Being that I never had the system that introduced the series, I've only had the later installments and it more or less feels like there should have been more to it, where as wipeout is pretty much everything that F-Zero has and then some.

Also scanning everything to get everything ment during many of the timed events(like the first stage in the pirate ship while it is self destructing) you only had one chance to scan these items and you could never go back to them ever again during the course of the game. I've really got a love/hate feeling for the game overall. I like the enviroments and the shooting aspect, but I hate the scanning process. They really need to do something to change it, either allow all items to be scanned throughout the game or let the % be able to accumilate thru multiple playthroughs if someone missed something(ala Final Fantasy X-2) it's 100% of everything to get the good ending, so it's all or nothing in that sense. You need to essentialy have everything layed out for you beforehand in a list so you can check everything off, the collection menu did not have any peticular order process and scanned images were not progressive numercal order.

[Chad Bonin]

Meh the universe really doesn't do it in terms of effecting the gameplay.
On those terms, no strategy or RPG game can be judged on story, as gameplay isn't affected by the story.

By the way, and this just a personal thing, it's "affect". You can "affect" something, or you can cause an "effect".


Also scanning everything to get everything ment during many of the timed events(like the first stage in the pirate ship while it is self destructing) you only had one chance to scan these items and you could never go back to them ever again during the course of the game. I've really got a love/hate feeling for the game overall. I like the enviroments and the shooting aspect, but I hate the scanning process. They really need to do something to change it, either allow all items to be scanned throughout the game or let the % be able to accumilate thru multiple playthroughs if someone missed something(ala Final Fantasy X-2) it's 100% of everything to get the good ending, so it's all or nothing in that sense. You need to essentialy have everything layed out for you beforehand in a list so you can check everything off, the collection menu did not have any peticular order process and scanned images were not progressive numercal order.
Then don't scan anything. A bad ending doesn't affect your gameplay.

[Vermunium]

Also scanning everything to get everything ment during many of the timed events(like the first stage in the pirate ship while it is self destructing) you only had one chance to scan these items and you could never go back to them ever again during the course of the game.
They really need to do something to change it, either allow all items to be scanned throughout the game or let the % be able to accumilate thru multiple playthroughs if someone missed something(ala Final Fantasy X-2) it's 100% of everything to get the good ending, so it's all or nothing in that sense. You need to essentialy have everything layed out for you beforehand in a list so you can check everything off, the collection menu did not have any peticular order process and scanned images were not progressive numercal order. That's the point of Timed events. You only get out of it what you put into it.
If you could just go back at anytime to do anything you wanted, that would totally ruin the experience. Better to know that next time you need to scan "X" to get what you wanted to see.

[Artimus Gigan]

On those terms, no strategy or RPG game can be judged on story, as gameplay isn't affected by the story.

By the way, and this just a personal thing, it's "affect". You can "affect" something, or you can cause an "effect".


Then don't scan anything. A bad ending doesn't affect your gameplay.
This is a complete list of everything that is to be scanned in order to get a perfect 100 and beat the game throughly, you only have one chance to get 100% each game and there really isn't any backtracking. Considering the ammount of items and that they are the only way to unlock certain things it certainly doesn't give any leeway for error. I mean the list for scanning items in the original MP is very long.


------ Frigate Orpheon ------
Exterior Docking Hangar
Air Lock
Deck Alpha Access Hall
Emergency Evacuation Area
ScanNow – Parasite
Deck Alpha Umbilical Hall
Map Facility
Scan – Map Station
Connection Elevator to Deck Beta
Deck Beta Conduit Hall
Biotech Research Area 1
Scan – Small Energy
Deck Beta Security Hall
Scan – Auto Turret
Biohazard Containment
ScanNow – Pirate Data “Fall of Zebes”
Deck Beta Transit Hall
Cargo Freight Lift to Deck Gamma
Reactor Core Entrance
Scan – Save Station
Reactor Core
ScanNow – Parasite Queen
Deck Gamma Monitor Hall
Connection Elevator to Deck Beta
Biotech Research Area 1
Subventilation Shaft Section A
Subventilation Shaft Section B
Main Ventilation Shaft Section A
Main Ventilation Shaft Section B
Main Ventilation Shaft Section C
Main Ventilation Shaft Section D
Main Ventilation Shaft Section E
Main Ventilation Shaft Section F
Biotech Research Area 2
Connection Elevator to Deck Alpha
Deck Alpha Mech Shaft
Air Lock
Exterior Docking Hangar

------ Tallon Overworld ------
Landing Site
Scan – Gunship
Take – door to the right
Canyon Cavern
Scan – Beetle
Scan – Small Energy
Tallon Canyon
Scan – Zoomer
Scan – Geemer
Transport Tunnel A
Scan – Sap Sac
Transport to Chozo Ruins West

------ Chozo Ruins ------
Transport to Tallon Overworld North
Ruins Entrance
Scan – Chozo Lore “Fountain”
Main Plaza
Take – far door to the left
Nursery Access
Scan – Scarab
Eyon Tunnel
Scan – Eyon
Ruined Nursery
Scan – Chozo Lore “Exodus”
Scan – War Wasp
Scan – War Wasp Hive
Save Station 1
Ruined Nursery
North Atrium
Ruined Gallery
Scan – Blastcap
Scan – Tangle Weed
Totem Access
Scan – Plazmite
Scan – Large Energy
Hive Totem
ScanNow – Ram War Wasp
ScanNow – Hive Mecha
Item – Missile Launcher (5)
Scan – Missile Door Lock
Transport Access North
Scan – Energy Tank
Item – Energy Tank (1)
Hive Totem
Totem Access
Ruined Gallery
Item – Missile Expansion (10)
Take – missile door
Map Station
Ruined Gallery
North Atrium
Ruined Nursery
Eyon Tunnel
Nursery Access
Main Plaza
Take – missile door
Ruined Shrine Access
Ruined Shrine
Scan – Plated Beetle
Item – Morph Ball
Ruined Shrine Access
Main Plaza
Take – upper door by bridge
Ruined Fountain Access
Ruined Fountain
Scan – Chozo Lore “Hatchling”
Take – left door
Arboretum Access
Scan – Shriekbat
Arboretum
Scan – Reaper Vine
Gathering Hall Access
Gathering Hall
Take – missile door
Save Station 2
Gathering Hall
Scan – Missile Ammo
Take – upper door
East Atrium
Energy Core Access
Energy Core
Burn Dome Access
Burn Dome
ScanNow – Incinerator Drone
ScanNow – Barbed War Wasp
Item – Morph Ball Bomb
Item – Missile Expansion (15)
Burn Dome Access
Energy Core
Scan – Stone Toad
Scan – Morph Ball Slot
West Furnace Access
Furnace
Item – Energy Tank (2)
West Furnace Access
Energy Core
Energy Core Access
East Atrium
Gathering Hall
Take – remaining door
Watery Hall Access
Item – Missile Expansion (20)
Watery Hall
Scan – Chozo Lore “Meteor Strike”
Item – Charge Beam
Dynamo Access
Dynamo
Item – Missile Expansion (25)
Watery Hall
Watery Hall Access
Gathering Hall
Gathering Hall Access
Arboretum
Scan – Venom Weed
Sunchamber Lobby
Sunchamber Access
Sunchamber
ScanNow – Flaahgra
ScanNow – Flaahgra Tentacles
Item – Varia Suit
Sun Tower Access
Scan – Pulse Bombu
Sun Tower
Scan – Chozo Lore “Contain”
Transport to Magmoor Caverns North
Take – left door
Vault Access
Vault
Scan – Chozo Lore “Beginnings”
Item – Missile Expansion (30)
Plaza Access
Item – Energy Tank (3)
Main Plaza
Ruined Nursery Access
Eyon Tunnel
Ruined Nursery
Item – Missile Expansion (35)
Ruined Gallery
Item – Missile Expansion (40)
Totem Access
Hive Totem
Transport Access North
Transport to Magmoor Caverns North

------ Magmoor Caverns ------
Transport to Chozo Ruins North
Burning Trail
Save Station Magmoor A
Burning Trail
Scan – Grizby
Lake Tunnel
Scan – Burrower
Lava Lake
Scan – Magmoor
Scan – Puffer
Pit Tunnel
Scan – Triclops
Triclops Pit
Storage Cavern
Item – Missile Expansion (45)
Triclops Pit
Monitor Tunnel
Monitor Station
Take – door on left
Shore Tunnel
Fiery Shores
Item – Missile Expansion (50)
Shore Tunnel
Monitor Station
Take – door across bridge
Transport Tunnel A
Item – Energy Tank (4)
Transport to Phendrana Drifts North

------ Phendrana Drifts ------
Transport to Magmoor Caverns West
Shoreline Entrance
Phendrana Shorelines
Scan – Crystallite
Scan – Flickerbat
Take – door above
Ice Ruins Access
Scan – Scatter Bombus
Ice Ruins East
Scan – Baby Sheegoth
Plaza Walkway
ScanNow – Ice Burrower
Phendrana Shorelines
Take – door on left
Ruins Entryway
Ice Ruins West
ScanNow – Ice Shriekbat
Scan – Chozo Lore “Cipher”
Take – missile door
Canyon Entryway
Phendrana Canyon
Item – Boost Ball
Scan – Chozo Lore “The Turned”
Canyon Entryway
Ice Ruins West
Ruins Entryway
Phendrana Shorelines
Shoreline Entrance
Transport to Magmoor Caverns West

------ Magmoor Caverns ------
Transport to Phendrana Drifts North
Transport Tunnel A
Monitor Station
Shore Tunnel
Fiery Shores
Transport Tunnel B
Transport to Tallon Overworld West

------ Tallon Overworld ------
Transport to Magmoor Caverns East
Transport Tunnel B
Item – Missile Expansion (55)
Root Cave
Take – missile door
Root Tunnel
Scan – Bloodflower
Tallon Canyon
Gully
Landing Site {Stay on ledge to door}
Alcove
Item – Space Jump Boots
Landing Site
Item – Missile Expansion (60)
Canyon Cavern
Tallon Canyon
Root Tunnel
Root Cave
Transport Tunnel B
Transport to Magmoor Caverns East

------ Magmoor Caverns ------
Transport to Tallon Overworld West
Transport Tunnel B
Fiery Shores
Shore Tunnel
Monitor Station
Scan – Spinner
Take – extended bridge
Warrior Shrine
Item – Artifact of Strength.
Monitor Station
Transport Tunnel A
Transport to Phendrana Drifts North

------ Phendrana Drifts ------
Transport to Magmoor Caverns West
Shoreline Entrance
Phendrana Shorelines
Take – door by temple
Temple Entryway
Chozo Ice Temple
ScanNow – Ice Parasite
Chapel Tunnel
Chapel of the Elders
Scan – Sheegoth
Item – Wave Beam
Chapel Tunnel
Chozo Ice Temple
Temple Entryway
Phendrana Shorelines
Ruins Entryway
Ice Ruins West
Scan – Stalactite
Take – purple door
Courtyard Entryway
Ruined Courtyard
Item – Energy Tank (5)
Take – missile door
Save Station A
Ruined Courtyard
Take – purple door
Specimen Storage
Scan – Shadow Pirate
Research Entrance
Scan – Locked Door
Scan – Space Pirate
Map Station
Research Entrance
Hydra Lab Entryway
Research Lab Hydra
Scan – Pirate Data “Phazon Analysis”
Scan – Pirate Data “Mining Status”
Scan – Pirate Data “Security Breaches”
Scan – Pirate Data “Glacial Wastes”
Scan – Pirate Data “Parasite Larva”
Observatory Access
Observatory
Scan – Pirate Data “Contact”
Scan – Pirate Data “Phazon Program”
Scan – Planet Zebes
Scan – Planet Tallon IV
Item – Super Missile Beam Combo
Take – missile door
Save Station D
Observatory
Take – purple door
West Tower Entrance
West Tower
Control Tower
Scan – Flying Pirate
{50% Logbook Scans}
East Tower
Aether Lab Entryway
Research Lab Aether
Scan – Metroid
Scan – Pirate Data “Meta Ridley”
Scan – Pirate Data “Metroid Forces”
Scan – Pirate Data “Phazon Infusion”
Scan – Pirate Data “Metroid Morphology”
Scan – Pirate Data “Metroid Studies”
Item – Energy Tank (6)
Item – Missile Expansion (65)
Research Core Access
Scan – Ice Beetle
Research Core
Item – Thermal Visor
Research Core Access
Scan – Sentry Drones
Research Lab Hydra
Aether Lab Entryway
East Tower
Control Tower
West Tower
West Tower Entrance
Observatory
Observatory Access
Research Lab Hydra
Item – Missile Expansion (70)
Hydra Lab Entryway
Research Entrance
Specimen Storage
Ruined Courtyard
Quarantine Access
North Quarantine Tunnel
Quarantine Cave
ScanNow – Thardus
Scan – Ultra Energy
Item – Spider Ball
Scan – Magnetic Rail
North Quarantine Tunnel
Quarantine Access
Ruined Courtyard
Courtyard Entryway
Ice Ruins West
Ruins Entryway
Phendrana Shorelines
Ice Ruins Access
Ice Ruins East
Item – Missile Expansion (75)
Ice Ruins Access
Phendrana Shorelines
Item – Missile Expansion (80)
Shoreline Entrance
Transport to Magmoor Caverns West

------ Magmoor Caverns ------
Transport to Phendrana Drifts North
Monitor Station
Shore Tunnel
Fiery Shores
Transport Tunnel B
Transport to Tallon Overworld West

------ Tallon Overworld ------
Transport to Magmoor Caverns East
Transport Tunnel B
Root Cave
Root Tunnel
Tallon Canyon
Transport Tunnel A
Transport to Chozo Ruins West

------ Chozo Ruins ------
Transport to Tallon Overworld North
Ruins Entrance
Main Plaza
Item – Missile Expansion (85)
Item – Missile Expansion (90)
Ruined Shrine Access
Ruined Shrine
Item – Missile Expansion (95)
Item – Missile Expansion (100)
Tower of Light Access
Tower of Light
Scan – Plated Puffer
Scan – Oculi
Item – Wavebuster Beam Combo
Tower of Light Access
Ruined Shrine
Ruined Shrine Access
Main Plaza
Nursery Access
Eyon Tunnel
Ruined Nursery
North Atrium
Ruined Gallery
Totem Access
Hive Totem
Transport Access North
Transport to Magmoor Caverns North
Sun Tower
Sun Tower Access
Sunchamber
Scan – Chozo Ghost
Item – Artifact of the Wild
Sunchamber Access
Sunchamber Lobby
Arboretum
Arboretum Access
Ruined Fountain
Item – Missile Expansion (105)
Arboretum Access
Arboretum
Gathering Hall Access
Gathering Hall
Item – Missile Expansion (110)
Watery Hall Access
Watery Hall
Dynamo Access
Dynamo
Item – Missile Expansion (115)
Dynamo Access
Watery Hall
Watery Hall Access
Gathering Hall
East Atrium
Energy Core Access
Energy Core
West Furnace Access
Furnace
Scan – Plated Parasite
Scan – Chozo Lore “Cradle”
Crossway Access West
Crossway
Scan – Chozo Lore “Infestation”
Scan – Chozo Lore “Worm”
Scan – Chozo Lore “”Hatchling’s Shell”
Item – Missile Expansion (120)
Take – missile door
Elder Hall Access
Hall of the Elders
Scan – Chozo Lore “Hope”
Scan – Missile Station
Reflecting Pool Access
Reflecting Pool
Take – missile door on right
Save Station 3
Reflecting Pool
Take – missile door on left
Antechamber
Item – Ice Beam
Reflecting Pool Access
Hall of the Elders
Item – Energy Tank (7)
Reflecting Pool Access
Reflecting Pool
Save Station 3
Transport to Tallon Overworld East

------ Tallon Overworld ------
Transport to Chozo Ruins East
Transport Tunnel C
Overgrown Cavern
Item – Missile Expansion (125)
Frigate Crash Site
Waterfall Cavern
Landing Site
Canyon Cavern
Tallon Canyon
Root Tunnel
Root Cave
Transport Tunnel B
Transport to Magmoor Caverns East

------ Magmoor Caverns ------
Transport to Tallon Overworld West
Take – door on left
Twin Fires Tunnel
Twin Fires
North Core Tunnel
Geothermal Core
Scan – Puddle Spore
South Core Tunnel
Magmoor Workstation
Item – Energy Tank (8)
Transport Tunnel C
Transport to Phendrana Drifts South
Take – missile door
Save Station Magmoor B
Transport to Phendrana Drifts South

------ Phendrana Drifts ------
Transport to Magmoor Caverns South {up the Spider Ball Track}
Transport Access
Frozen Pike
Take – purple door, second from bottom
Frost Cave Access
Frost Cave
Scan – Hunter Metroid
Scan – Glider
Take – purple door on right
Save Station C
Frost Cave
Take – other purple door
Upper Edge Tunnel
Phendrana's Edge
Scan – Jelsap
Lower Edge Tunnel
Hunter Cave
Take – lower door on right
Lake Tunnel
Gravity Chamber
Scan – Aqua Reaper
Item – Gravity Suit
Take – purple door
Chamber Access
Hunter Cave
Take – purple door on right
Hunter Cave Access
Frozen Pike
Transport Access
Transport to Magmoor Caverns South

------ Magmoor Caverns ------
Transport to Phendrana Drifts South
Save Station B
Transport Tunnel C
Magmoor Workstation
South Core Tunnel
Geothermal Core
North Core Tunnel
Twin Fires
Twin Fires Tunnel
Transport to Tallon Overworld West

------ Tallon Overworld ------
Transport to Magmoor Caverns East
Transport Tunnel B
Root Cave
Root Tunnel
Tallon Canyon
Canyon Cavern
Landing Site
Waterfall Cavern
Frigate Crash Site
Item – Missile Expansion (130)
Frigate Access Tunnel
Main Ventilation Shaft Section C
Main Ventilation Shaft Section B
Main Ventilation Shaft Section A
Scan – Tallon Crab
Reactor Core
Scan – Aqua Pirate
Reactor Access
Savestation
Reactor Access
Cargo Freight Lift to Deck Gamma
Item – Energy Tank (9)
Deck Beta Transit Hall
Biohazard Containment
ScanNow – Aqua Drone
Item – Missile Expansion (135)
Deck Beta Security Hall
Biotech Research Area 1
Deck Beta Conduit Hall
Connection Elevator to Deck Beta
Scan – Aqua Sac
Hydro Access Tunnel
Item – Energy Tank (10)
Great Tree Hall
Scan – Seedling
Take – white door just above water
Transport Tunnel E
Transport to Phazon Mines East

------ Phazon Mines ------
Quarry Access
Main Quarry
Scan – Mega Turret
Save Station
Main Quarry
Item – Missile Expansion (140)
Security Access A
Mine Security Station
Scan – Wave Trooper
Security Access B
Elite Research
Scan – Pirate Data “Elite Pirates”
Scan – Power Trooper
Item – Missile Expansion (145)
Take – white door
Research Access
Ore Processing
Elevator Access A
Elevator A
Elite Control Access
Item – Missile Expansion (150)
Elite Control
ScanNow – Elite Pirate
Scan – Pirate Data “The Hunter”
Scan – Pirate Data “Metroid Prime”
Scan – Pirate Data “Hunter Weapons”
Scan – Pirate Data “Chozo Studies”
Scan – Pirate Data “Chozo Artifacts”
Scan – Pirate Data “Prime Mutations”
Scan – Pirate Data “Prime Breach”
Scan – Pirate Data “Chozo Ghosts”
Take – white door on upper level
Ventilation Shaft
Omega Research
Scan – Pirate Data “Omega Pirate”
Dynamo Access
Central Dynamo {Shadow Drone, can’t scan}
Item – Power Bomb
Take – white door near where you entered
Save Station Mines B
Central Dynamo
Scan – Ice Trooper
Scan – Power Bomb Ammo
Dynamo Access
Omega Research
Map Station Mines
Ventilation Shaft
Item – Energy Tank (11)
Elite Control
Elite Control Access
Elevator A
Elevator Access A
Ore Processing
Storage Depot B
Item – Grapple Beam
Ore Processing
Scan – Grapple Point
{100 % of all Research scanned}
Waste Disposal
Main Quarry
Security Access A
Item – Missile Expansion (155)
Main Quarry
Quarry Access
Transport to Tallon Overworld South

------ Tallon Overworld ------
Transport to Phazon Mines East
Transport Tunnel E
Great Tree Hall
Take – upper white door
Life Grove Tunnel
Item – Missile Expansion (160)
Life Grove
Item – X-Ray Visor
Item – Artifact of Chozo
Life Grove Tunnel
Great Tree Hall
Great Tree Chamber
Item – Missile Expansion (165)
Great Tree Hall
Take – white door on right
Transport Tunnel D
Transport to Chozo Ruins South

------ Chozo Ruins ------
Transport to Tallon Overworld South
Transport Access South
Reflecting Pool
Reflecting Pool Access
Hall of the Elders
East Furnace Access
Furnace
Item – Missile Expansion (170)
West Furnace Access
Energy Core
Energy Core Access
East Atium
Gathering Hall
Watery Hall Access
Watery Hall
Item – Missile Expansion (175)
Watery Hall Access
Gathering Hall
Gathering Hall Access
Arboretum
Arboretum Access
Ruined Fountain
Take – remaining door
Meditation Fountain
Magma Pool
Item – Power Bomb Expansion (5)
Scan – Chozo Lore “Newborn”
Training Chamber Access
Item – Missile Expansion (180)
Training Chamber
Item – Energy Tank (12)
Piston Tunnel
Main Plaza (Don't drop down)
Item – Missile Expansion (185)
Ruined Shrine Access
Ruined Shrine
Tower of Light Access
Tower of Light
Tower Chamber
Item - Artifact of the Lifegiver
Tower of Light
Tower of Light Access
Ruined Shrine
Ruined Shrine Access
Main Plaza
Ruins Entrance
Transport to Tallon Overworld North

------ Tallon Overworld ------
Transport to Chozo Ruins West
Transport Tunnel A
Tallon Canyon
Root Tunnel
Root Cave
Item – Missile Expansion (190)
Transport Tunnel B
Transport to Magmoor Caverns East

------ Magmoor Caverns ------
Transport to Tallon Overworld West
Twin Fires Tunnel
Twin Fires
North Core Tunnel
Geothermal Core
Take – white door
Plasma Processing
Item – Plasma Beam
Geothermal Core
South Core Tunnel
Magmoor Workstation
Transport Tunnel C
Transport to Phendrana Drifts South

------ Phendrana Drifts ------
Transport Magmoor Caverns South
South Quarantine Tunnel
Quarantine Cave
Quarantine Monitor
Item – Missile Expansion (195)
North Quarantine Tunnel
Ruined Courtyard
Courtyard Entry
Ice Ruins West
Item – Power Bomb Expansion (6)
Ruins Entryway
Phendrana Shorelines
Item - Missile Expansion (200)
Temple Entryway
Chozo Ice Temple
Item – Artifact of the Sun
Temple Entryway
Phendrana Shorelines
Ice Ruins Access
Ice Ruins East
Item – Missile Expansion (205)
Plaza Walkway
Phendrana Shorelines
Ruins Entryway
Ice Ruins West
Courtyard Entryway
Ruined Courtyard
Specimen Storage
Research Entrance
Hydra Lab Entryway
Research Lab Hydra
Observatory Access
Observatory
West Tower Entrance
West Tower
Control Tower
Item – Artifact of Elder
East Tower
Aether Lab Entryway
Research Lab Aether
Research Core Access
Research Core
Pike Access
Frozen Pike
Frost Cave Access
Frost Cave
Item – Missile Expansion (210)
Upper Edge Tunnel
Phendrana's Edge
Take – red door {use power bomb}
Storage Cave
Item – Artifact of Spirit
Security Cave
Item – Power Bomb Expansion (7)
Phendrana's Edge
Lower Edge Tunnel
Hunter Cave
Lake Tunnel
Gravity Chamber
Item – Missile Expansion (215)
Chamber Access
Hunter Cave
Hunter Cave Access
Frozen Pike
Transport Access
Item – Energy Tank (13)
Transport to Magmoor Caverns South

------ Magmoor Carverns ------
Transport to Phendrana Drifts South
Transport Tunnel C
Magmoor Workstation
South Core Tunnel
Geothermal Core
North Core Tunnel
Twin Fires
Twin Fires Tunnel
Transport to Tallon Overworld West

------ Tallon Overworld ------
Transport to Magmoor Caverns East
Transport Tunnel B
Root Cave
Take – red door
Arbor Chamber
Item – Missile Expansion (220)
Root Cave
Transport Tunnel B
Transport to Magmoor Caverns East

------ Magmoor Caverns ------
Transport to Tallon Overworld West
Transport Tunnel B
Fiery Shores
Shore Tunnel
Item – Ice Spreader Beam Combo
Monitor Station
Warrior Shrine
Item – Power Bomb Expansion (8)
{100 % of all Power Bomb Expansions acquired}
Fiery Shores
Shore Tunnel
Monitor Station
Monitor Tunnel
Triclops Pit
Item – Missile Expansion (225)
Pit Tunnel
Lava Lake
Item – Artifact of Nature
Lake Tunnel
Burning Trail
Transport to Chozo Ruins North

------ Chozo Ruins ------
Transport to Magmoor Caverns North
Sun Tower
Sun Tower Access
Sunchamber
Sunchamber Access
Sunchamber Lobby
Arboretum
Gathering Hall Access
Gathering Hall
East Atrium
Energy Core Access
Energy Core
West Furnace Access
Furnace
East Furnace Access
Hall of the Elders (hit red light)
Elder Chamber
Item – Artifact of World
Hall of the Elders
Reflecting Pool Access
Reflecting Pool
Transport Access South
Transport to Tallon Overworld South

------ Tallon Overworld ------
Transport to Chozo Ruins South
Transport Tunnel D
Great Tree Hall
Transport Tunnel E
Transport to Phazon Mines East

------ Phazon Mines ------
Transport to Tallon Overworld South
Quarry Access
Main Quarry
Security Access A
Mine Security Station
Take – red door
Storage Depot A
Item – Flamethrower Beam Combo
Security Access B
Elite Research
ScanNow – Phazon Elite
Item – Artifact of the Warrior
Research Access
Ore Processing
Elevator Access A
Elevator A
Elite Control Access
Elite Control
Ventilation Shaft
Omega Research
Dynamo Access
Central Dynamo
Quarantine Access
Metroid Quarantine A
Item – Missile Expansion (230)
Elevator Access B
Elevator B
Fungal Hall Access
Item – Missile Expansion (235)
Fungal Hall A
Phazon Mining Tunnel
Fungal Hall B
Missile Station Mines
Fungal Hall B
Item – Missile Expansion (240)
Quarantine Access B
Metroid Quarantine B
Scan – Plasma Trooper
Scan – Pirate Data “Special Forces”
Item – Missile Expansion (245)
Save Station Mines C
Metroid Quarantine B
Take – red door upstairs.
Elite Quarters Access
Elite Quarters
ScanNow – Omega Pirate
Item – Phazon Suit And Beam
Elite Quarters Access
Metroid Quarantine B
Quarantine Access B
Fungal Hall B
Phazon Mining Tunnel
Item – Artifact of Newborn
Fungal Hall B
Quarantine Access B
Metroid Quarantine B
Elite Quarters Access
Elite Quarters
Take – red door on second level
Processing Center Access
Item – Energy Tank (14)
{100 % of all Energy Tanks acquired}
Phazon Processing Center
Item – Missile Expansion (250)
{100 % of all Missile Expansions acquired}
Transport Access
Transport to Magmoor Caverns South

------ Magmoor Caverns ------
Transport to Phazon Mines West
Workstation Tunnel
Magmoor Workstation
South Core Tunnel
Geothermal Core
North Core Tunnel
Twin Fires
Twin Fires Tunnel
Transport to Tallon Overworld West

------ Tallon Overworld ------
Transport to Magmoor Caverns East
Transport Tunnel B
Root Cave
Root Tunnel
Tallon Canyon
Canyon Cavern
Landing Site
Take – door near waterfall
Temple Hall
Temple Security Station
Scan – Pirate Data “Artifact Site”
{100 % of all Pirate Data scanned}
Temple Lobby
Artifact Temple
Scan – Chozo Lore “Statuary”
Scan – Chozo Lore “Binding”
{100 % of all Chozo Lore scanned}
Artifact Chamber
Item – Artifact of Truth
{100 % of all Artifacts scanned}
{100 % of all "pickups" acquired}
ScanNow – Meta Ridley

------ Impact Crater ------
Crater Entry Point
Save Station
Take – red door
Crater Tunnel A
ScanNow – Lumigek
Phazon Core
ScanNow – Fission Metroid
Crater Missile Station
Phazon Core
Crater Tunnel B
Phazon Infusion Chamber
Subchamber One
ScanNow – Metroid Prime
Subchamber Two
Subchamber Three
Subchamber Four
Metroid Prime Lair
ScanNow – Metroid Prime "Core Essense"

I mean this is the same type of tedious quest that made Windwaker take a dip in enjoyment(the 147 statue quest), I mean it's a bit overkill in the collecting aspect. Hopefully hunters will have a decrease in the number of scanned items. It's not as balanced or perfected in that sense and could really use revisions and reworkings. I mean I usualy like completeing all aspects of any game so I get to see everything. I mean take for example Zelda OOT and MM, the 100 skulltulas quest for each. They allowed you to go back and get anyones you may have missed at any point in the game, also 100 isn't all that high of a number especialy considering the size of the levels. While timed events can be fun, Zelda also allowed you to re-do them if you messed up(i.e. the gallery mini-games) I mean they were challenging and took practice to master(like the Octoruk shooting game in MM).

[Vermunium]

This is a complete list of everything that is to be scanned in order to get a perfect 100 and beat the game throughly, you only have one chance to get 100% each game and there really isn't any backtracking. Considering the ammount of items and that they are the only way to unlock certain things it certainly doesn't give any leeway for error. I mean the list for scanning items in the original MP is very long.



I mean this is the same type of tedious quest that made Windwaker take a dip in enjoyment(the 147 statue quest), I mean it's a bit overkill in the collecting aspect. Hopefully hunters will have a decrease in the number of scanned items. It's not as balanced or perfected in that sense and could really use revisions and reworkings. I mean I usualy like completeing all aspects of any game so I get to see everything. I mean take for example Zelda OOT and MM, the 100 skulltulas quest for each. They allowed you to go back and get anyones you may have missed at any point in the game, also 100 isn't all that high of a number especialy considering the size of the levels. While timed events can be fun, Zelda also allowed you to re-do them if you messed up(i.e. the gallery mini-games) I mean they were challenging and took practice to master(like the Octoruk shooting game in MM).

That's such an un-needed long post, just link it, please. And except for the Pirate Frigate, youy can pretty much back track to anywhere to scan a lot of things, just not Bosses and such. Just walk around with your scan visor on, it helps more than you would think.

[Noukon]

Some people just buy games just to use the system. It could be the worst game ever, but as long as it's associated with the system, it's worth playing.
Well, that's nice for "some people," but I don't see what it has to do with this thread.


Also the GC never really excelled at any peticular genre, even with RPGs it only had a select handful of exclusives that were good. Playsation got the better RPGs usualy.

Mario Kart and Wave Race were the only good exclusive racers

It had no exclusive fighters aside from SSBM

Metroid Prime and Metroid Prime 2 were the only good FPS on the system, but they had waaay to much scanning which got in the way of the Shooting aspect and trying to dodge hosties. If they left the constant scanning out and not make you get impeded to aquire 100% it would have been better.

Exclusive Platformers was just limited to Mario and Starfox which were just 3 installations and none were particularly 5 star grade

Though it did have alot of exclusive sports titles that featured mario.

Pikmin 1 and 2 was pretty inventive for a puzzle game

I mean there are only a few games for each catagory that stood out or were noticed to some extent, it wasn't like hit after hit after hit like a few of the genres on the other systems.

Do you understand that you're pushing your personal opinions here, and thus proving my entire point? The GC did not "excel" at meeting your own tastes. So what? I posted that I have a huge library of GameCube games, and your response is a fallacy-ridden statement of your own opinion about the GameCube library? Your statements here are absolutely meaningless in context to what you're responding to.

Not only that, but your "opinions" here are ignorant and incomplete. F-Zero GX is widely considered to be one of the best games this generation, but you basically discount it as even being good just because you personally like Wipeout better? Ludicrous. Absolutely ludicrous.

You obviously have very little understanding overall of these games. Metroid Prime 1 & 2 are not FPSes, Pikmin 1 & 2 are not puzzle games (they are strategy games), and there is no such thing as a StarFox platformer.

And posting a list of scannable items in Metroid Prime to argue against the GameCube in general? What the heck? The Metroid Prime games are two of the best titles that have been released this generation, and either one of them is worth owning a GameCube over. You discount them simply because they contain bonus content for thorough, hardcore gamers?

How is it that you're actually able to reason all of this fallacy out into what you're trying to pass off as an argument? It feels like you're trying to use game design theory as argumentation, but you have no real understanding of game design theory to draw from.


I mean I think the Gamecube has been a weak show compared to it's N64 predecessor.
In your opinion.

Those are three very important words that you really need to keep in mind.

I did a study of franchises and exclusive titles between the N64 and GameCube at one point, and the GameCube came out on top (by a longshot). I don't have it with me to post, unfortunately, but I recommend that you dive in to some game listings for both consoles (maybe on gamerankings.com or mobygames.com) and look at some actual numbers. The GameCube has much stronger support from both Nintendo and third parties than the N64 did.

[Artimus Gigan]

Well, that's nice for "some people," but I don't see what it has to do with this thread.



Do you understand that you're pushing your personal opinions here, and thus proving my entire point? The GC did not "excel" at meeting your own tastes. So what? I posted that I have a huge library of GameCube games, and your response is a fallacy-ridden statement of your own opinion about the GameCube library? Your statements here are absolutely meaningless in context to what you're responding to.

Not only that, but your "opinions" here are ignorant and incomplete. F-Zero GX is widely considered to be one of the best games this generation, but you basically discount it as even being good just because you personally like Wipeout better? Ludicrous. Absolutely ludicrous.

You obviously have very little understanding overall of these games. Metroid Prime 1 & 2 are not FPSes, Pikmin 1 & 2 are not puzzle games (they are strategy games), and there is no such thing as a StarFox platformer.

And posting a list of scannable items in Metroid Prime to argue against the GameCube in general? What the heck? The Metroid Prime games are two of the best titles that have been released this generation, and either one of them is worth owning a GameCube over. You discount them simply because they contain bonus content for thorough, hardcore gamers?

How is it that you're actually able to reason all of this fallacy out into what you're trying to pass off as an argument? It feels like you're trying to use game design theory as argumentation, but you have no real understanding of game design theory to draw from.


In your opinion.

Those are three very important words that you really need to keep in mind.

I did a study of franchises and exclusive titles between the N64 and GameCube at one point, and the GameCube came out on top (by a longshot). I don't have it with me to post, unfortunately, but I recommend that you dive in to some game listings for both consoles (maybe on gamerankings.com or mobygames.com) and look at some actual numbers. The GameCube has much stronger support from both Nintendo and third parties than the N64 did.

Metroid Prime is classified as a First Person Shooter, Gamespot has it under it as well as Gamefaqs

Starfox Adventures was a Action/adventure platformer

and I was arguing the balance aspect of Metroid Prime when compared to other Nintendo games that had collecting as part of the game. That was also an aspect in games like Donkey Kong 64 where collecting was on levels of overkill, and did bring down the enjoyment factor. All I ment to say that it needed to be toned down a bit, the shooting aspect and level aspect was fine, it's 2/3's of the game I don't have a problem with.

[Chad Bonin]

Metroid Prime is classified as a First Person Shooter, Gamespot has it under it as well as Gamefaqs

Starfox Adventures was a platformer

and I was arguing the balance aspect of Metroid Prime when compared to other Nintendo games that had collecting as part of the game.
Gamespot/Gamefaqs aren't the developers. I'm sure they don't have Shenmue classified under "FREE". Star Fox Adventures was as much of a platformer as The Legend Of Zelda: Ocarina Of Time. BTW, with most platformers with collection aspects (not exclusive to Nintendo games... and actually, Nintendo rarely develops the games; Retro Studios made Metroid, and Rare made their legacy of collectable games) are either completely for plot alone (and therefore, do not affect gameplay), or have a requisite minimum to advance the gameplay which is rather easily achieved (getting enough stars in Super Mario 64, for example, to move to other worlds was hardly an exercise).

[Artimus Gigan]

I'd also like to point out that the n64 sold 32,930,000 where as the Gamecube sold 18,030,000, the n64 sold stronger mainly due in part to the games on it. And it did for a bit compete in a 3 company market. By weak show I ment that it does not have a as large presense as it's predecessor.

The GC may have had more support, but many of the games did not reach mass appeal quality. I mean take Halo 1 and 2 for instance, those sold very well due it the setup of having it be a simple and deep FPS. I mean the same thing could be applied to Metroid which would make it be up there with Halo, Half-life, and such. So all I suggested is to tone down the collecting, don't make it as much or as constant. Just refine some things abit, not dumb down the difficulty, just even out some of the other aspects of the game.

[Chad Bonin]

I'd also like to point out that the n64 sold 32,930,000 where as the Gamecube sold 18,030,000, the n64 sold stronger mainly due in part to the games on it. And it did for a bit compete in a 3 company market. By weak show I ment that it does not have a as large presense as it's predecessor.
I'd wager a good amount for the halfing of sales (assuming those are correct; sources are always a good aid) were due to Nintendo losing a fanbase given the weak performance of the N64. If Sega came out with another system after the Dreamcast, Atari after the 7800, or Sony another handheld after the PSP at this point, they wouldn't sell nearly as well. Too many gamers have been burned.


The GC may have had more support, but many of the games did not reach mass appeal quality. I mean take Halo 1 and 2 for instance, those sold very well due it the setup of having it be a simple and deep FPS. I mean the same thing could be applied to Metroid which would make it be up there with Halo, Half-life, and such. So all I suggested is to tone down the collecting, don't make it as much or as constant. Just refine some things abit, not dumb down the difficulty, just even out some of the other aspects of the game.
Forget that "Metroid Prime is an FPS" BS. It's not. Consider it a platformer from a first person setting that happens to have a weapons engine built in. Put it in the same category as Zelda if you must.

[Noukon]

Metroid Prime is classified as a First Person Shooter, Gamespot has it under it as well as Gamefaqs

They have it classified incorrectly, as it is not a first-person shooter. You say yourself that the focus is not on shooting, so why do you insist on incorrectly classifying it?

MP portrays a combination of adventure, exploration, strategy/puzzle, and shooter elements. The fact that it's from a first-person perspective causes a lot of people (such as yourself, as well as those who run the websites you mentiones) to automatically classify it as an FPS. Doing so is doing it a disservice.


Starfox Adventures was a Action/adventure platformer

No, it was an action/adventure game, period. A mediocre one, at that. It was not a platformer.


and I was arguing the balance aspect of Metroid Prime when compared to other Nintendo games that had collecting as part of the game. That was also an aspect in games like Donkey Kong 64 where collecting was on levels of overkill, and did bring down the enjoyment factor. All I ment to say that it needed to be toned down a bit, the shooting aspect and level aspect was fine, it's 2/3's of the game I don't have a problem with.

The issue is not what precisely you're criticizing, it's why you're criticizing it. In a discussion like this, what's the point of bringing up your one perceived flaw in one game?

You can't argue specifics here. The end result is that you target a tiny sample of what you're trying to make a point against, and it weakens your argument and makes you seem completely ignorant of the subject matter (in this case, GameCube games in general).

[Artimus Gigan]

You can't argue specifics here. The end result is that you target a tiny sample of what you're trying to make a point against, and it weakens your argument and makes you seem completely ignorant of the subject matter (in this case, GameCube games in general).
I own 25+ or so GC games, I do not think that classifies me as ignorant of the system's games, especialy considering the vast majority of them are system exclusives. I've played them and I found pros and cons in them, just like every other game. The viewpoint that I am coming from is "let's see how they can make them better and increase their appeal". Metropid Prime may not be a solely a FPS but the majority of the elements in it are based in FPS. I mean Half-Life used exploration and puzzle solving, but it's pretty much a FPS. The same argument could be used for the Jak games, it's primarily a platformer, it just used things from other genres to distinguish itself.

[Noukon]

I own 25+ or so GC games, I do not think that classifies me as ignorant of the system's games, especialy considering the vast majority of them are system exclusives.
The number of games you own doesn't necessarily indicate your ignorance of the system's games. Rather, the stances you take and the statements you make do. Given what you've said about many of the GameCube's best exclusives in this thread, it's obvious that you don't have the knowledge of them necessary to use them in your arguments.


I've played them and I found pros and cons in them, just like every other game. The viewpoint that I am coming from is "let's see how they can make them better and increase their appeal".
That viewpoint has no place in this thread.

Let's track back, shall we? The basis of this entire line of argumentation is that all three current consoles have a lot of fantastic games, and which ones appeal to you is a matter of taste. This statement is not an opinion; it is, in fact, an analysis that attempts to quantify arguments as to any of the three consoles' quality as an opinion.

You insisted on arguing with that point (despite the fact that it's a factual, quantitative analysis that cannot be effectively contested), and somehow, you thought that turning it around into a study on one gameplay mode in one video game would be a good way to go about it.


Metropid Prime may not be a solely a FPS but the majority of the elements in it are based in FPS. I mean Half-Life used exploration and puzzle solving, but it's pretty much a FPS. The same argument could be used for the Jak games, it's primarily a platformer, it just used things from other genres to distinguish itself.
Metroid Prime did not simply use elements of other genres, it combined them.

Think of the word "shooter." It's pretty obvious what that means, right? It means there's a distinct focus on shooting. Metroid Prime doesn't have that focus; while in-game combat involves shooting, the vast majority of the game is spent exploring the environment, solving puzzles, and as you yourself have pointed out so endlessly, collecting data. It is, above all, an adventure game, as the developers referred to it from the outset back in 2000.

It is first person, and it is partially a shooter. Its focus is, however, elsewhere.

[Chad Bonin]

Based on my own assumptions of Nintendo occassionally overblowing something, backed by the potentially real/fake image of the Revolution Dashboard including a battery monitor...

We all saw that little "dock" you put your Revolution into. It helps stand it up, angle it...

... what if it powered it?

Nintendo's liked the concept of making their consoles portable-friendly, given the handle on the back of the GCN, and the never-mass-produced LCD screens.

You have your NRev at home; the dock plugged in to the power cord that you have stuck on your wall. The cord goes in and around your entertaiment center, looped between your TV, DVD, stereo, and X360 power brick. It'd be a pain to unplug all that, right?

Unplug the cord from the dock, grab your Revolution, and you've got five hours of gaming at your friend's house without having to cord up outside of the A/V cables.

... I wouldn't say Nintendo would think everything out...

[Vermunium]

Well think of this little interjection. You can use the same set of A/V cables on three different Nintendo consoles. SNES -> N64 -> Gamecube It makes it so much easier to switch between the systems that way, so you don't have to hook up the systems individually besides the power plug. Plus, it's always awesome to have your SNES games going in surround sound.

[Artimus Gigan]

Metroid Prime did not simply use elements of other genres, it combined them.

Think of the word "shooter." It's pretty obvious what that means, right? It means there's a distinct focus on shooting. Metroid Prime doesn't have that focus; while in-game combat involves shooting, the vast majority of the game is spent exploring the environment, solving puzzles, and as you yourself have pointed out so endlessly, collecting data. It is, above all, an adventure game, as the developers referred to it from the outset back in 2000.

It is first person, and it is partially a shooter. Its focus is, however, elsewhere.
I think this is just a case of making something out to be what it is not. If Mmtroid Prime was at it's core a game that focused on Adventure and puzzle solving it would be along the lines of Myst and such in terms of puzzles being much more prominant throughout the game(and also maybe a collectable item inventory like in the Lucas Arts games). It also would not have as many enemies in each stage as well. It also uses the similar types of bosses and stratagies of defeating them that have been used in other FPS. If it were primarily a game based around Exploration and Puzzle Solving, then the boss battles would have featured this in order to defeat them, but it's set up "find weak area, blast the hell out of it". If it was to be puzzle adventure game the boss stratagies and battles would have been set up like the Blast Core Boss in half life. The boss cannot be effected by any of your weapons, you have to explore the corridors of the Blast Core, activate the 3 elements to launch the rocket to destroy the boss. All the while trying to avoid the boss's tenticles which are attacted to sounds that you make, you can use your weapons to distract it by throwing projectiles to make noises at other nearby areas so it doesn't hit you. That's a boss battle that's a puzzle and uses elements of FPS as secondary importance, but Half-Life is still a FPS. Also the latter two MP games feature Multiplayer Death Match which is pretty much a prominant feature in FPS.

It's also not the only game to feature things from other genres, the Jak games do this by combining elements from 3rd person shooters, racers, and such but it is still classified as a platformer.

[Noukon]

I think this is just a case of making something out to be what it is not. If Mmtroid Prime was at it's core a game that focused on Adventure and puzzle solving it would be along the lines of Myst and such in terms of puzzles being much more prominant throughout the game(and also maybe a collectable item inventory like in the Lucas Arts games). It also would not have as many enemies in each stage as well. It also uses the similar types of bosses and stratagies of defeating them that have been used in other FPS. If it were primarily a game based around Exploration and Puzzle Solving, then the boss battles would have featured this in order to defeat them, but it's set up "find weak area, blast the hell out of it". If it was to be puzzle adventure game the boss stratagies and battles would have been set up like the Blast Core Boss in half life. The boss cannot be effected by any of your weapons, you have to explore the corridors of the Blast Core, activate the 3 elements to launch the rocket to destroy the boss. All the while trying to avoid the boss's tenticles which are attacted to sounds that you make, you can use your weapons to distract it by throwing projectiles to make noises at other nearby areas so it doesn't hit you. That's a boss battle that's a puzzle and uses elements of FPS as secondary importance, but Half-Life is still a FPS. Also the latter two MP games feature Multiplayer Death Match which is pretty much a prominant feature in FPS.
I'm sorry, but you're wrong. How much of Metroid Prime have you actually played? The world emphasizes exploration and puzzle solving over combat. The combat is there, but it isn't the main focus.

You touch on very specific things here, such as collectible items and puzzle solving in boss battles, as if they are not in the game when, in fact, they are. You yourself criticized it for having a collection system that bored you on the same level that the one in Zelda: Wind Waker did. There is also, in fact, a fairly high degree of puzzle-solving required in the boss battles (moreso than in any FPS I've ever played).

I'm not trying to say that the FPS designation is completely inaccurate; Metroid Prime is a fusion of genres. Calling it just an FPS, though, is inaccurate, just as much as calling it an adventure game. In reality, it is a fairly even combination of the two.


It's also not the only game to feature things from other genres, the Jak games do this by combining elements from 3rd person shooters, racers, and such but it is still classified as a platformer.
Tons of games lie in one genre and use elements from others. Metroid Prime is not such a game; it exists between multiple genres. I honestly have not played the Jak games, so I cannot comment on them directly, but if they are similarly balanced between multiple genres, then the same problem exists with their classification.

Gaming websites and stores tend to assign one genre to a given game, regardless of how many it realistically fits into. By insisting that Metroid Prime is an FPS, you're buying into the byproduct of a flawed and inadequate system for classification. The world is not black-and-white.

[Artimus Gigan]

I wouldn't exactly say MP is an even split, it's more like 60/40

None of the puzzles in the game are really brainbusters, they range from easy to medium difficulty in terms of game puzzles. Also I ment item inventory like in Monkey Island/Sam and Max/Longest Journey, you collect tools and items to solve puzzles, not collect to unlock features or effect the outcome of the game, it's a different sort of item collecting(it's also very minimal in terms of number of items). Yes you can get Samus Upgrades to acess new areas, but it's not the same thing to the extent of being incorporated in that peticular way.

Wind Waker and Metroid Prime both had collecting systems that needed refining. Hunters seems to be addressing these issues by making less things to scan and Twlight Princess does not appear to have any 147 statues. So Nintendo appears to have resolved these issues for the next installments of the series.

However for my own ideal of how a metroid game should have player descisions that effect the outcome, they should do a planet select system akin to Ratchet and Clank. Go to certain areas and get endings based on choices, not item collection.

It would also make Samus's ship play more of a role as well....I mean the ship's role was just a big saving station for the majority of the games, I mean it has guns.

[Noukon]

I wouldn't exactly say MP is an even split, it's more like 60/40

It's even enough. Assigning hard numbers like that is pointless, too, since this is all abstract.


None of the puzzles in the game are really brainbusters, they range from easy to medium difficulty in terms of game puzzles. Also I ment item inventory like in Monkey Island/Sam and Max/Longest Journey, you collect tools and items to solve puzzles, not collect to unlock features or effect the outcome of the game, it's a different sort of item collecting(it's also very minimal in terms of number of items). Yes you can get Samus Upgrades to acess new areas, but it's not the same thing to the extent of being incorporated in that peticular way.

Along the same lines, the FPS-style combat is far simplified from your average FPS game, and very sporadic.

I don't understand what that's supposed to prove. The game is a hybrid between different genre archetypes, so none will be represented as fully and robustly as it would in a game that uses it exclusively. Different aspects of the different archetypes have been combined to form a unique game.

[peacebyanymeans]

I would say fighting Form 1 of Metroid Prime in the first game was a fairly hard brain-buster. Both in the sense of learning the puzzle to fighting it and trying to NOT DIE!

I swear, I finnaly beat it after 2 hours and was like "YAY!"

NOW FIGHT FORM 2!? @#$#@!!!!!

[tb4000]

I sense that the younger you are, the more contempt you have for Nintendo. Anyone that grew up on the company knows what the deal is.

[peacebyanymeans]

That's not true. I'm 14 and I love Nintendo.

[Noukon]

I sense that the younger you are, the more contempt you have for Nintendo. Anyone that grew up on the company knows what the deal is.

The majority of kids who are into gaming are still growing up on Nintendo; it's older audiences that they have trouble keeping. A lot of children grow out of gaming as they grow older, and most adults who get into gaming for the first time see Nintendo games as "kiddy."

[.Automatisch]

The majority of kids who are into gaming are still growing up on Nintendo; it's older audiences that they have trouble keeping. A lot of children grow out of gaming as they grow older, and most adults who get into gaming for the first time see Nintendo games as "kiddy."

A lot of older people also like Nintendo due to nostalgia, and they are a very important part of Nintendo's success. I'm 18 and have ALWAYS loved Nintendo systems, and have bought every iteration of Nintendo system and handheld released here. I feel that their franchises bring a very fun experience that a lot of other franchises cannot.

[Noukon]

snake']A lot of older people also like Nintendo due to nostalgia, and they are a very important part of Nintendo's success. I'm 18 and have ALWAYS loved Nintendo systems, and have bought every iteration of Nintendo system and handheld released here. I feel that their franchises bring a very fun experience that a lot of other franchises cannot.

Yep, I couldn't agree more. Coming into my mid twenties, I've never been a bigger fan of Nintendo's stuff.

I just don't think age is that much of an issue when it comes to game tastes. This especially applies to Nintendo, since they specifically develop their games to be as universally attractive as possible.

[Dark Fact]

A lot of older people also like Nintendo due to nostalgia, and they are a very important part of Nintendo's success. I'm 18 and have ALWAYS loved Nintendo systems, and have bought every iteration of Nintendo system and handheld released here. I feel that their franchises bring a very fun experience that a lot of other franchises cannot.
You bought the Virtual Boy? :eek:

In any case, are there any new developments into what this surprise feature on the Revolution will be?

[.Automatisch]

You bought the Virtual Boy? :eek:

In any case, are there any new developments into what this surprise feature on the Revolution will be?

The surprise feature is the Virtual Boy v2.0 with face-mounted VR goggles that lock in via screws you drill into your face.

As for Prime, it's anything BUT an FPS. It is, in essence, an adventure game, just in first-person. I don't see Morrowind as an FPS, yet it has first-person combat... The key part is shooter, and I don't think Prime is a shooter so much as it is a very slow-paced adventure game. It is VERY different than the regular Metroid series, and if they had done a straight-up translation of the series, it would probably be more shooter-like. Metroid 2D is all about twitch shooting and reflexes, but it's also about exploring and learning about your environment. The Prime series just focuses on the latter half, and rarely gets into the prior. The combat is so laid-back in that game...