The DS is killing in Japan...

[.Automatisch]

Here... (http://ds.ign.com/articles/678/678205p1.html)

DS Rules Japan

Faster than a speeding Game Boy Advance! Not as powerful as a PS2, but able to leap over one in a single year!
by Anoop Gantayat
December 26, 2005 - The DS has been in the number one spot on the Media Create Japanese sales charts throughout the better part of 2005, beating all other hardware, including the PSP and the PS2. There was no doubt that Nintendo's third pillar was a success across the Pacific, but today Nintendo made it clear: the DS isn't just a success in Japan, its a phenomenon.


At a press conference held today in Tokyo (Japan's real year end break begins later this week), Nintendo president Satoru Iwata revealed that the DS has topped sales of 5,000,000 units in Japan. This figure is for actual sales, and not shipped units.
Iwata states that the DS now holds the record for the fastest system ever to reach five million units sold in Japan. Although we don't have the data to check up on this statement, given that the DS managed to sell nearly half a million units last week alone, we'll take his word for it. By comparison, Nintendo states that Game Boy Advance took 14 months to reach the figure while the PlayStation 2 took 17 months.

The DS has also seen strong sales of software, with Iwata announcing that four games have already crossed the million shipped mark. The surprise adult-oriented hit Nou wo Kitaeru Otona no DS Training (Train Your Brain in the US) has shipped 1.38 million units to retail, trailed slightly by the Japanese version of Animal Crossing, Oideyo Doubutsu no Mori, which has shipped 1.27 million units in about a month's time. Both Nintendogs and another adult-oriented game, Yawaraka Atama Juku (Brain Flex in the US), have shipped 1.08 million units.

Nintendo didn't just hold this press conference to boast about sales, though. The company has some big plans for the DS in the near future, including a follow up to Otona no DS Training. Already announced for release on 12/29, Motto Nou wo Kitaeru Otona no DS Training will be backed with a big television advertising campaign featuring one of Japan's most well-known (and hottest!) celebrities, Nanako Matsushima. Matsushima appeared at the press conference and revealed that she used to played games quite a bit, citing hours of Game & Watch play back in the days (didn't know you were so old, Nana-chan!).

The Touch! Generations series, which includes the successful Otona no DS Training games, Nintendogs and other titles that attempt to reach an audience outside of the typical gamer circle, will be getting a new entry, Nintendo also announced. Perhaps as an answer to the PSP's Talkman, Nintendo will be releasing Tabi no Yubisashi Kaiwacho DS, an adaptation of a series of travel books. Developed by Tosse conjunction with the series' print publisher, the DS versions will allow users to search for words and phrases and have them translated to different languages, all making good use of the system's touch pen and dual screens. Nintendo plans on releasing five entries, one each for Korea, Thailand, China, Germany and America, with a Japanese release is planned for March.

I'm personally interested in those "travel" games... Talkman is cool, but imagine the amount of depth you could have with the stylus.

[Artimus Gigan]

snake']

I'm personally interested in those "travel" games... Talkman is cool, but imagine the amount of depth you could have with the stylus.Games like that won't see a US release, there just isn't any market for them

[.Automatisch]

Well, yea. I would just import it, much like Talkman.

[Artimus Gigan]

snake']Well, yea. I would just import it, much like Talkman.They're essentialy utility programs, they tend to lose their novelty rather quickly. You're better off saving for an actual game, especialy considering that January to March is going to have alot of good releases for both systems

[.Automatisch]

They're essentialy utility programs, they tend to lose their novelty rather quickly. You're better off saving for an actual game, especialy considering that January to March is going to have alot of good releases for both systems
Yea, definitely. But I just like these little niche "games" that are out for portables. They're just fun to mess with. Anyways, the system will have a hell of a lot of games out in 06. Good games at that. So far, the DS will be seeing most of my money for the new year.

[peacebyanymeans]

snake']The DS is killing in Japan... In other news, the police have released a photo of the man who is believes to have anally raped and killed the PSP...

http://wirelessdigest.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/nintendo_ds.jpg

[Artimus Gigan]

In other news, the police have released a photo of the man who is believes to have anally raped and killed the PSP...

http://wirelessdigest.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/nintendo_ds.jpgYou wish...

The PSP isn't really doing bad at all, the DS is doing better than the PSP, but that doesn't mean just because one system is doing better than the others the competition fades away.

Or Nintendo's consoles would have ended at the N64.

[Chad Bonin]

Games like that won't see a US release, there just isn't any market for themOh, I'm sorry, you're right. Nintendo hasn't announced a US release of Train Your Brain.

... waitaminute.

And nobody's ever released one of those PDA-type programs for a Nintendo handheld...

... waitaminute.


In other news, the police have released a photo of the man who is believes to have anally raped and killed the PSP...

http://wirelessdigest.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/nintendo_ds.jpgAnybody remember that picture that looked like the DS was EATING the PSP?


The PSP isn't really doing bad at all, the DS is doing better than the PSP, but that doesn't mean just because one system is doing better than the others the competition fades away.NES had no real competition. Gameboy had no real competition. Sony PSone had no real competition (N64 was in it's own little 64-bit, cartridge world). And I gaurantee you, if Microsoft had not stepped in with the XBox, the GCN would be more dead.

It's kinda sad, really. If you follow Nintendo's logic, the Gameboy micro should be the main competition for the PSP, with the DS being the "third pillar", a system that's just out there. Nintendo's inadvertantly taking down Sony's handheld.

[Artimus Gigan]

Oh, I'm sorry, you're right. Nintendo hasn't announced a US release of Train Your Brain.

... waitaminute.

And nobody's ever released one of those PDA-type programs for a Nintendo handheld...

... waitaminute.

Anybody remember that picture that looked like the DS was EATING the PSP?

NES had no real competition. Gameboy had no real competition. Sony PSone had no real competition (N64 was in it's own little 64-bit, cartridge world). And I gaurantee you, if Microsoft had not stepped in with the XBox, the GCN would be more dead.

It's kinda sad, really. If you follow Nintendo's logic, the Gameboy micro should be the main competition for the PSP, with the DS being the "third pillar", a system that's just out there. Nintendo's inadvertantly taking down Sony's handheld.The GBA has really no noteable exclusive releases left, I think the whole initial third pillar stratagy they laid out with the DS being a separate beast from the Gameboy just wasn't there to begin with. The DS has become the successor to the Gameboy, it just doesn't have the Gameboy name.

[Chad Bonin]

Yet Nintendo continues to work on a successor to the Gameboy. The oft-rumored theory being that it would essentially be a portable Gamecube (even able to play the portable-sized discs), with games designed for the handheld mindset. Even given the potential for the Revolution to be $150 (thusly, GCN-level hardware would be significantly less to manufacture), that seems plausible.

Remember that, Sony? The concept of a handheld gaming being made with the handheld mindset? Oh, wait, no, no you don't. Nice try on the Hold function, nowhere near as useful as being able to completely save battery and save all around (or complete a mission within minutes).

Nintendo's still trying to have three pillars. The Gameboy line, to compete with the PSP. The Control Deck line, with the Revolution will just be a whole 'nother field. Same with the DS.

Nintendo's not in it for direct competition it seems, it strives to break ground (while unintentionally, and luckily for them, breaking opponents).

[Artimus Gigan]

Yet Nintendo continues to work on a successor to the Gameboy. The oft-rumored theory being that it would essentially be a portable Gamecube (even able to play the portable-sized discs), with games designed for the handheld mindset. Even given the potential for the Revolution to be $150 (thusly, GCN-level hardware would be significantly less to manufacture), that seems plausible.

Remember that, Sony? The concept of a handheld gaming being made with the handheld mindset? Oh, wait, no, no you don't. Nice try on the Hold function, nowhere near as useful as being able to completely save battery and save all around (or complete a mission within minutes).

Nintendo's still trying to have three pillars. The Gameboy line, to compete with the PSP. The Control Deck line, with the Revolution will just be a whole 'nother field. Same with the DS.

Nintendo's not in it for direct competition it seems, it strives to break ground (while unintentionally, and luckily for them, breaking opponents).Though the thing is Nintendo hasn't really been providing the long console quality games that the DS can pretty much handle fairly well. Mario 64 emulated fairly well on the DS and Mario Kart DS is the best in the series. However the entire library runs up short in terms of overall length for the games, many can be beaten in a sitting or two. I mean the GBA had 30 buck games like Fire Emblem but that ran the length of a typical RPG and only costs a few bucks less than a DS game, where as Partners in Time is currently the only good RPG on the DS and can be beaten within 7-10 hours and costs a bit more than Fire Emblem. I mean even though games like that are a fun short ride, they certainly arn't worth the 30+ or so for them. They seem more suitable for the 20 buck price tag in many cases like Trace Memory and Pheonix Wirght. I mean I'd like to see a new Zelda in the quality of the N64 versions and runs a full length of it's console counterparts.

I mean I think the whole hanheld games being "videogames lite" to their console counterparts has been over since Pokemon. Even before that, Zelda: Link's Awakening was on the grade of it's console counterpart in length and quality. So it's not unreasonable to expect high quality long games on a portable system. I mean the PSP does what no other portable system has regularly done, which is to provide portable console quality games on a regular baisis. That's been the goal for many previous hanhelds for years, and to just dust it off would not really be beneficial. The DS could really use some more high quality console quality games on a regular baisis, not just one or two once in a blue moon. So if the competition keeps at it both systems may need to become inventive to use their hardware to the full extent.

[fuchikoma]

The DS has a preset kill limit so just send wave after wave of Nintendo fanbois.

[Chad Bonin]

All I can say is look at the sales for the handhelds. People enjoy handheld-length games for handheld systems better than console-length games for handheld systems.

Mind you, console-length tends to get longer and longer. Super Mario World back on the SNES was considered a long game (96 exits!), but on the GBA, it seemed significantly shorter... in comparison to the length it takes to beat Super Mario Sunshine.

For example, I can easily take on Kirby: Canvas Curse. Great portable game. In comparison, I got Metroid Prime 2: Echoes last Christmas, and still haven't beaten in. Legend Of Zelda: Wind Waker's in the same boat (pun not intended), and I got that at launch. Megaman Zero 3? Nearly beaten by just playing bit by bit in my America Since 1890 class.

[Artimus Gigan]

All I can say is look at the sales for the handhelds. People enjoy handheld-length games for handheld systems better than console-length games for handheld systems.

Mind you, console-length tends to get longer and longer. Super Mario World back on the SNES was considered a long game (96 exits!), but on the GBA, it seemed significantly shorter... in comparison to the length it takes to beat Super Mario Sunshine.

For example, I can easily take on Kirby: Canvas Curse. Great portable game. In comparison, I got Metroid Prime 2: Echoes last Christmas, and still haven't beaten in. Legend Of Zelda: Wind Waker's in the same boat (pun not intended), and I got that at launch. Megaman Zero 3? Nearly beaten by just playing bit by bit in my America Since 1890 class.But they are charging console prices for the games. If they lowered the price 10 bucks or so then many of the DS games would fit better.

[Squall]

If Sony would allow the UMD format to open up like the DVD format is now (with the sale of blank UMDs, UMD burners you can install on your PC, etc.), then the PSP would experience a huge increase in sales. But will that ever happen? I have no idea...

[.Automatisch]

Eh? DS games aren't overpriced... PSP prices make me cringe. I haven't bought a new PSP game other than Irregular Hunter X. Games are severely overpriced on the system. Why buy the portable version when the console version is that much cheaper? I can't justify getting GTA or Socom for 10-20~ more than the original versions. Especially when I don't take the PSP out anywhere due to its fragile nature. And it's battery sucks. The few good games it has are not worth owning the system [I got it at launch day], but that could change next year. Until Sony makes more games and less movies, the thing won't survive as a gaming platform. All it is now is port city, and barely ANY new IPs have appeared on it.

[GrantM]

snake']Eh? DS games aren't overpriced... PSP prices make me cringe. I haven't bought a new PSP game other than Irregular Hunter X. Games are severely overpriced on the system. Why buy the portable version when the console version is that much cheaper? I can't justify getting GTA or Socom for 10-20~ more than the original versions. Especially when I don't take the PSP out anywhere due to its fragile nature. And it's battery sucks. The few good games it has are not worth owning the system [I got it at launch day], but that could change next year. Until Sony makes more games and less movies, the thing won't survive as a gaming platform. All it is now is port city, and barely ANY new IPs have appeared on it.
It's the same over here in the UK, I only have 3 games (GTA: LCS, Lumines and Metal Gear Ac!d), but at least they are 3 good games, the only other games that interest me are Pursuit Force (depending on how good the reviews for it are......oh wait, there are no reviews for it yet!), Burnout Legends and Wipeout: Pure. And I see more UMD movies than games in stores

[.Automatisch]

Yea... And it just frustrates PSP owners who thought we were getting real, original games, and not ports. And these damn movies are getting out of hand. I will NEVER buy a UMD movie... Unless there is some sort of UMD player on the PS3 or Blu-Ray players. If I have no other means of playing the damn thing, its a waste of my money. If I buy a DVD now, I can play it later on a new player. But UMDs... They're a stuck format. Not very open.

[GrantM]

snake']Yea... And it just frustrates PSP owners who thought we were getting real, original games, and not ports. And these damn movies are getting out of hand. I will NEVER buy a UMD movie... Unless there is some sort of UMD player on the PS3 or Blu-Ray players. If I have no other means of playing the damn thing, its a waste of my money. If I buy a DVD now, I can play it later on a new player. But UMDs... They're a stuck format. Not very open. I'd rather just put some music and video files on my PSP, and i'm planning to get a 1GB memory stick duo anyway. So who needs UMD movies!

[Artimus Gigan]

snake']Eh? DS games aren't overpriced... PSP prices make me cringe. I haven't bought a new PSP game other than Irregular Hunter X. Games are severely overpriced on the system. Why buy the portable version when the console version is that much cheaper? I can't justify getting GTA or Socom for 10-20~ more than the original versions. Especially when I don't take the PSP out anywhere due to its fragile nature. And it's battery sucks. The few good games it has are not worth owning the system [I got it at launch day], but that could change next year. Until Sony makes more games and less movies, the thing won't survive as a gaming platform. All it is now is port city, and barely ANY new IPs have appeared on it.The GBA games ran from 20-30, with 30 being the big games like Zelda Minish: Cap. 30 was the highest price point and usualy you got something that lasted you awhile.

The DS games run 30-40, they don't really last long in alot of cases. A GBA game like Kindom Hearts CoM can be beaten both ways under 10 hours and I got that one for around 20-25. Goldren sun, Breath of Fire, and Fire Emblem all lasted for way longer and were priced at 25-30. However at 40 bucks you got games like Disgaea which last for 40 hours or games like Front Mission compared to the DS games which don't usualy last over 10 hours. It's getting up there in the price range, the PSP games run from 30-50 but the 50 dollar games do give you what you would expect from a 50 dollar game, they last as long as their console counterparts.

[JohnCrichton]

snake']Eh? DS games aren't overpriced... PSP prices make me cringe. I haven't bought a new PSP game other than Irregular Hunter X. Games are severely overpriced on the system. Why buy the portable version when the console version is that much cheaper? I can't justify getting GTA or Socom for 10-20~ more than the original versions. Especially when I don't take the PSP out anywhere due to its fragile nature. And it's battery sucks. The few good games it has are not worth owning the system [I got it at launch day], but that could change next year. Until Sony makes more games and less movies, the thing won't survive as a gaming platform. All it is now is port city, and barely ANY new IPs have appeared on it.
While I'm MORE than overjoyned to see Nintendo finally winning and making a killing for once, the PSP is still realatively new and Sony's always showed a remarkable ablity to be versitile to what the market wants.

Given another year, I'm sure the PSP'll have just as many good killer apps as fix all its problems with a wave of a magic wand.

[Snailbait]

I mean the GBA had 30 buck games like Fire Emblem but that ran the length of a typical RPG and only costs a few bucks less than a DS game, where as Partners in Time is currently the only good RPG on the DS and can be beaten within 7-10 hours and costs a bit more than Fire Emblem. I mean even though games like that are a fun short ride, they certainly arn't worth the 30+ or so for them.

I sort-of agree with you; Partners in Time is a good RPG, but it lasts longer than 7-10 hours. I'm already up to 5 hours and I'm only on Yoshi's Island.

[.Automatisch]

The GBA games ran from 20-30, with 30 being the big games like Zelda Minish: Cap. 30 was the highest price point and usualy you got something that lasted you awhile.

The DS games run 30-40, they don't really last long in alot of cases. A GBA game like Kindom Hearts CoM can be beaten both ways under 10 hours and I got that one for around 20-25. Goldren sun, Breath of Fire, and Fire Emblem all lasted for way longer and were priced at 25-30. However at 40 bucks you got games like Disgaea which last for 40 hours or games like Front Mission compared to the DS games which don't usualy last over 10 hours. It's getting up there in the price range, the PSP games run from 30-50 but the 50 dollar games do give you what you would expect from a 50 dollar game, they last as long as their console counterparts.

Well my problem are your comparison games. Nothing like Disgaea or Front Mission exists on the PSP [at that length and depth], so it's not really a fair comparison. Unless you mean in general. Then I'll agree, since there are lots of SRPGs on the PS2 that last you for a long time. But games on the DS aren't ALL short. Advance Wars has tons of replayability. So do SM64, MK, WarioWare, AC:WW, and there are imports that have great replayability like Jump Superstars, Ouendan, and Band Bros. It really just depends on what type of gamer you are. If you consider replayability to mean multiplayer, than yes, some PSP games have much more replayability. If it means just going back and replaying the actual game itself, then I consider the above titles fine examples of keeping you interested in something you already beat or played to death. Noone's saying the PSP doesn't have "good games", but I am stating that there are far more AAA titles out on the DS, and the price of a new AAA DS game is still cheaper than a new AAA PSP game. It's not like EVERY PSP game shares the same length as it's console counterpart.

[Artimus Gigan]

snake']Well my problem are your comparison games. Nothing like Disgaea or Front Mission exists on the PSP [at that length and depth], so it's not really a fair comparison. Unless you mean in general. Then I'll agree, since there are lots of SRPGs on the PS2 that last you for a long time. But games on the DS aren't ALL short. Advance Wars has tons of replayability. So do SM64, MK, WarioWare, AC:WW, and there are imports that have great replayability like Jump Superstars, Ouendan, and Band Bros. It really just depends on what type of gamer you are. If you consider replayability to mean multiplayer, than yes, some PSP games have much more replayability. If it means just going back and replaying the actual game itself, then I consider the above titles fine examples of keeping you interested in something you already beat or played to death. Noone's saying the PSP doesn't have "good games", but I am stating that there are far more AAA titles out on the DS, and the price of a new AAA DS game is still cheaper than a new AAA PSP game. It's not like EVERY PSP game shares the same length as it's console counterpart.I'm talking in general terms, considering both machines are able to do console quality games, the difference in the games themselves really isn't all that far from their console counterparts.


However Jump Super stars is an import as are a few other you mentioned, the PSP has alot more AAA titles if we are talking imports. But I am talking about the US Market, so imports arn't really a consideration, or else I would have mentioned Valkyrie Profile and Suikoden 1 and 2 being strengths, considering the rareity and expense on the secondary market they are welcome ports.

[.Automatisch]

I'm talking in general terms, considering both machines are able to do console quality games, the difference in the games themselves really isn't all that far from their console counterparts.


However Jump Super stars is an import as are a few other you mentioned, the PSP has alot more AAA titles if we are talking imports. But I am talking about the US Market, so imports arn't really a consideration, or else I would have mentioned Valkyrie Profile and Suikoden being strengths.

Yea, PSP has some good imports. In fact, that's the only reason I'm keeping mine, as there are a good amount of games coming out there that won't see here, or at least for the time being. Anyways, what PSP games do you consider to have a large amount of replayability? Just curious. I know of Socom, and some racers, but that's really all I can think of.

[Artimus Gigan]

snake']Yea, PSP has some good imports. In fact, that's the only reason I'm keeping mine, as there are a good amount of games coming out there that won't see here, or at least for the time being. Anyways, what PSP games do you consider to have a large amount of replayability? Just curious. I know of Socom, and some racers, but that's really all I can think of.I'd have to say Kingdom of Paradise is really what The Bouncer should have played like in terms of a very well done Action RPG, Legend of Heros is a very well done long RPG that is done in the oldschool style. There's also Wipeout Pure that has 100+ races from the get-go and the free downloadable expansion packs. There's Ridge Racer PSP which I thought was a bit better than Ridge Racer 6. Twisted Metal: Head on has an excelent multiplayer mode and effectively combines the best elements of Twisted Metal 2 with Twisted Metal black and outdoes it's predesessors in terms of everything. There's Popolo Crios which was formerly japan exclusive and it's the entire series consisting of 3 games on the disc not just the latest instalment brought over like in the case of Altelier Iris.

[.Automatisch]

I disliked TM on the PSP... The SP was kinda fun, but the MP was anything but. I'm interested in some of those RPGs, though. But I have my plate full with GBA/DS games ATM. I like GBA RPGs due to their low prices and long-lasting amount of gameplay. Something will come along next year that will be a real killer app for PSP Online, for sure. I personally hope Killzone PSP is an SRPG, and that it is not an FPS at all. The PSP can't handle FPS with that controller scheme. It's archaic, and reminds me of playing Doom on a handheld [which isn't a bad thing, as Doom GBA is fun... But this is the PSP we're talking about, which is brand new].

[Dr Crocodile]

Though the thing is Nintendo hasn't really been providing the long console quality games that the DS can pretty much handle fairly well. Mario 64 emulated fairly well on the DS and Mario Kart DS is the best in the series. However the entire library runs up short in terms of overall length for the games, many can be beaten in a sitting or two. I mean the GBA had 30 buck games like Fire Emblem but that ran the length of a typical RPG and only costs a few bucks less than a DS game, where as Partners in Time is currently the only good RPG on the DS and can be beaten within 7-10 hours and costs a bit more than Fire Emblem. I mean even though games like that are a fun short ride, they certainly arn't worth the 30+ or so for them. They seem more suitable for the 20 buck price tag in many cases like Trace Memory and Pheonix Wirght. I mean I'd like to see a new Zelda in the quality of the N64 versions and runs a full length of it's console counterparts.

I mean I think the whole hanheld games being "videogames lite" to their console counterparts has been over since Pokemon. Even before that, Zelda: Link's Awakening was on the grade of it's console counterpart in length and quality. So it's not unreasonable to expect high quality long games on a portable system. I mean the PSP does what no other portable system has regularly done, which is to provide portable console quality games on a regular baisis. That's been the goal for many previous hanhelds for years, and to just dust it off would not really be beneficial. The DS could really use some more high quality console quality games on a regular baisis, not just one or two once in a blue moon. So if the competition keeps at it both systems may need to become inventive to use their hardware to the full extent.

I don't mean to be harsh but I'm going to have to call bull on a large portion of this post. Mario & Luigi lasting only 7-10 hours? Maybe if you're a speed demon. I'm just now in the final area and I'm past the 20 hour mark. 15-20 hours is more accurate and while that may be short for an RPG, MANY (surprise!, surprise!) console games run for that length of time. Also, everything I've heard indicates Phoenix Wright is more in the 20 hour range.

I also don't like how you are equating length to getting your money's worth. I also think your definition of long is off kilter. I understand not wanting to pay $50 for a game you play once and beat in a day and then let them sit on your shelf for the rest of time. However, how much fun, which is of course very subjective, is the only good measure. I think we all agree 10-20 hours of pure bliss > 40-50 of doldrum. Plus if you ever feel that the price tag is too high, you always have the option of using copuons, waiting for price drops, etc.

As for defining length, you first fail to realize (as I've mentioned) that MANY console games clock in at 10-20 hours. Many of these games also rock. Examples include the Devil May Cry (unless you suck), Sly Cooper, Viewtiful Joe, Pikmin, Onimusha, etc series. Second, "lengthy" shouldn't only extend to a singular narratives but any game that you can derive long periods of enjoyment from. Many quality handelds games are built around the arcade mentality of short play sessions. But you love the game, play it often and get tons of enjoyment of of it. Meteos and Metroid Prime Pinball are examples of this. Then there are games that encourage you to replay them after beating them with major incentives. Castlevania with its unlockable characters (who play very differently from each other) + modes is an example of this. Any game with a solid multiplayer aspect will get many hours of play. Mario Kart is one example but so is Advance Wars Dual Strike. Speaking of Advance Wars, that game is PACKED. You get two campaigns, a war room (preset maps to beat), a real time combat mode, a map editor, etc.You obviously have never played it cause you'd realize that it lasts as long as any Fire Emblem.

Handeld gaming isn't so much "lite" video gaming as it is different, due to the nature of handeld gaming, certain play styles are preferred. Nonetheless that doesn't change the fact that many quality and "lengthy" games have exsisted on the GBA (as you note) and also exsist on the the DS.

[Artimus Gigan]

I don't mean to be harsh but I'm going to have to call bull on a large portion of this post. Mario & Luigi lasting only 7-10 hours? Maybe if you're a speed demon. I'm just now in the final area and I'm past the 20 hour mark. 15-20 hours is more accurate and while that may be short for an RPG, MANY (surprise!, surprise!) console games run for that length of time. Also, everything I've heard indicates Phoenix Wright is more in the 20 hour range.

I also don't like how you are equating length to getting your money's worth. I also think your definition of long is off kilter. I understand not wanting to pay $50 for a game you play once and beat in a day and then let them sit on your shelf for the rest of time. However, how much fun, which is of course very subjective, is the only good measure. I think we all agree 10-20 hours of pure bliss > 40-50 of doldrum. Plus if you ever feel that the price tag is too high, you always have the option of using copuons, waiting for price drops, etc.

As for defining length, you first fail to realize (as I've mentioned) that MANY console games clock in at 10-20 hours. Many of these games also rock. Examples include the Devil May Cry (unless you suck), Sly Cooper, Viewtiful Joe, Pikmin, Onimusha, etc series. Second, "lengthy" shouldn't only extend to a singular narratives but any game that you can derive long periods of enjoyment from. Many quality handelds games are built around the arcade mentality of short play sessions. But you love the game, play it often and get tons of enjoyment of of it. Meteos and Metroid Prime Pinball are examples of this. Then there are games that encourage you to replay them after beating them with major incentives. Castlevania with its unlockable characters (who play very differently from each other) + modes is an example of this. Any game with a solid multiplayer aspect will get many hours of play. Mario Kart is one example but so is Advance Wars Dual Strike. Speaking of Advance Wars, that game is PACKED. You get two campaigns, a war room (preset maps to beat), a real time combat mode, a map editor, etc.You obviously have never played it cause you'd realize that it lasts as long as any Fire Emblem.

Handeld gaming isn't so much "lite" video gaming as it is different, due to the nature of handeld gaming, certain play styles are preferred. Nonetheless that doesn't change the fact that many quality and "lengthy" games have exsisted on the GBA (as you note) and also exsist on the the DS.I never said anything about Advance Wars coming up short

thing is the entire series of Sly Cooper games can all be had for 60 maximum. The console games can come down in price if you wait, I picked up many of the short console games for around 10-20. I have yet to see handhelds do the same. The GBA never did a player's choice line, the handheld games stay the same price unless a store is having a sale. There is no company price drop like Player's Choice or Greatest Hits.

The handheld games have apprached console game prices, so they really should have a bargain line for the games that sold well.

[Chad Bonin]

DS games are easily just 25-35. Unless you go to a place you shouldn't be buying games at anyway (Media Play), you should be able to get them. And I know, for example, Target usually marks down games in their first week. I managed to walk away with Mario Kart DS for $25 on day one (well, less, with Team Member discount).

Nintendo's handheld games can't easily hit "Player's Choice" because manufacturing costs are higher. Don't ask me why the GB line could, but maybe Nintendo saw how much money they were losing on that. this is why I doubt that PSP games will have an official "Greatest Hits" line, they still require that plastic UMD case. But since they don't have to manufacture cards or chips, I could easily see PSP games hitting the low, low price of $29.99.

[Vermunium]

I could easily see PSP games hitting the low, low price of $29.99.
That is, if Sony decides to let the price slip below 40$ on new games.
The only thing holding me back from a PSP is the price, I'd really like one otherwise.

[Artimus Gigan]

DS games are easily just 25-35. Unless you go to a place you shouldn't be buying games at anyway (Media Play), you should be able to get them. And I know, for example, Target usually marks down games in their first week. I managed to walk away with Mario Kart DS for $25 on day one (well, less, with Team Member discount).

Nintendo's handheld games can't easily hit "Player's Choice" because manufacturing costs are higher. Don't ask me why the GB line could, but maybe Nintendo saw how much money they were losing on that. this is why I doubt that PSP games will have an official "Greatest Hits" line, they still require that plastic UMD case. But since they don't have to manufacture cards or chips, I could easily see PSP games hitting the low, low price of $29.99.I don't think plastic cases would be an issue, I mean the N64 had a player's choice line and those were full fledged carts. There were also the early Playstation cases which were huge plastic behemoths which were later exchanged for the standard jewel cases. Many of those games that were in the original PSX cases were later put into jewel cases. The UMD disc cases that surround the discs are there for the disc protection, they are also packed in a smaller jewel case than the original PSX games and are made out of one type of plastic, and they are roughly the same height of the DVD cases for PS2.

Also the Target in my Area does not mark down the games to as low as 25, there's also the 6% Jersey tax to figure into the price.

[.Automatisch]

Well the PSP has a "Greatest Hits" in Japan, which is supposedly going to premiere here next year... The DS honestly doesn't need a budget line. The games will just cheapen as time goes on. Neither the DS or PSP have monstrous amounts of games out each year like the Gameboy, so it's not really something needed. If anything, Sony will make a discounted UMD Video line, as there are so many of those things out compared to games. Like I said before, I can't take the platform seriously if theres such a large gap between movies and games released. I understand the PSP is a multimedia device, but that doesn't excuse Sony from releasing games for the damn thing. Between ~June til Dec, I hadn't bought a single PSP game due to this very problem. I'm left with importing games, since that is the best part of gaming on the system. Next year the PSP might come out on top in some areas, and I expect that Sony will be pushing it alongside the PS3 at E3, so there's hope they turn this around. It's not a bad system, but it's nothing like it could've been.

[Chris Wood]

You know, as a young kid I enjoyed a lot of these portable games, but I don't quite understand when adults find the time to play them. On public transportation on the way to work? On business trips?

[Dr Crocodile]

I understand your cry for a NDS "Player's Choice" line. However, as their normal prices are normally lower, finding them fir near player's choice prices is relatively easier and can be done sooner. I've picked up like 6 DS games lately and only one of them cost me more than $20 (Phoenix Wright which is getting rare). If you're alert and aware, picking up NDS games for cheap isn't hard. It just takes some patience (like with all games).

[.Automatisch]

I understand your cry for a NDS "Player's Choice" line. However, as their normal prices are normally lower, finding them fir near player's choice prices is relatively easier and can be done sooner. I've picked up like 6 DS games lately and only one of them cost me more than $20 (Phoenix Wright which is getting rare). If you're alert and aware, picking up NDS games for cheap isn't hard. It just takes some patience (like with all games).

Yup, most titles are marked down at release anyways. Especially Target and Best Buy. The problem is neither store ever had these new games in stock because so many people buy them that first week.

[.Automatisch]

You know, as a young kid I enjoyed a lot of these portable games, but I don't quite understand when adults find the time to play them. On public transportation on the way to work? On business trips?
I just play them. Period. Like, you don't really need to be "out" when you want to play them... But they work well if you're on a lunch break or something, as you can get in some quality gaming on a portable. I play my DS [as well as GBA games on the DS] more than my consoles.

[Artimus Gigan]

I understand your cry for a NDS "Player's Choice" line. However, as their normal prices are normally lower, finding them fir near player's choice prices is relatively easier and can be done sooner. I've picked up like 6 DS games lately and only one of them cost me more than $20 (Phoenix Wright which is getting rare). If you're alert and aware, picking up NDS games for cheap isn't hard. It just takes some patience (like with all games).I go to Bestbuy on a regular baisis, they sell many of the DS games for 30-34, Mario Kart was one that was 34 for example as was Castlevania


You know, as a young kid I enjoyed a lot of these portable games, but I don't quite understand when adults find the time to play them. On public transportation on the way to work? On business trips?I keep them both in my room and plugged to the wall usualy, I play them just like I would the consoles.

[Dr Crocodile]

Tsk, Tsk. If you've been paying full price for those games then you're being an uninformed consumer. Here's a tip, check out cheapassgamer.com. You'll be glad you did.

Oh and my mention of Advance Wars was part of the general rebuttal to DS games not providing a lot of gametime as that, among other games, does. In case you didn't get that or something.

[Artimus Gigan]

Tsk, Tsk. If you've been paying full price for those games then you're being an uninformed consumer. Here's a tip, check out cheapassgamer.com. You'll be glad you did.

Oh and my mention of Advance Wars was part of the general rebuttal to DS games not providing a lot of gametime as that, among other games, does. In case you didn't get that or something.Well mostly I would compare prices of major retailers and their online counterparts. Only place I would tend to avoid is the Wal-Mart near me because of the atrocious parking lot design(I've sat for an hour in a line of cars waiting to get out).

And for some reason I keep forgetting about Advance Wars, I think because that's the only other DS game that I don't have.

[.Automatisch]

And for some reason I keep forgetting about Advance Wars, I think because that's the only other DS game that I don't have.

Eh? Just how many DS games DO you have?

[Artimus Gigan]

snake']Eh? Just how many DS games DO you have?7

soon to be 8 or 9

and I should have phrased it "good DS game that I don't have"

I've got all the other good/worthwhile exclusives for the system....wait except animal crossing, I don't like Animal Corssing.

[Chad Bonin]

So, the "only other" DS game you don't have is Advance Wars... despite the fact I have at least 4-5 more than you, and I still don't have AW:DS... We'll ignore the forgettable ports by third parties from a GBA design...

[Artimus Gigan]

So, the "only other" DS game you don't have is Advance Wars... despite the fact I have at least 4-5 more than you, and I still don't have AW:DS... We'll ignore the forgettable ports by third parties from a GBA design...Mind you I didn't buy anything for the system until october of last year, the launch titles and what came after before October were meh.

I was using it as a GBA and quasi-retired my SP to the draw with my 6 other Gameboy incarnations and other handheld systems of yore

[Chad Bonin]

Okay, so, the only DS games you don't have are Advance Wars: Dual Strike... and a messload of others.

Just wanting to make sure that "only" means 1 game + half a years worth of games.

[.Automatisch]

7

soon to be 8 or 9

and I should have phrased it "good DS game that I don't have"

I've got all the other good/worthwhile exclusives for the system....wait except animal crossing, I don't like Animal Corssing.

Ahh, I see. Well, I don't like AC as well, so yea... I mean, the concept and all is cool, even if it's been done to death. But it's one of those games where you feel obligated to play it everyday or you feel like you won't get anything out of it. Anyways, be sure to get AW: DS, as it is an amazing game [If you like strategy games, obviously. Which I'll assume you do, as you mentioned some SRPGs in your rebuttal previously].

Anyways, back to the main topic... The DS did go through a drought before it got going, and it did release earlier, so I won't up and say the PSP is dead before it gets to really spread it's wings. Like I said before, I'm sure 06 will prove that the system has some more good games coming. But also, that doesn't excuse them from releasing this poor ratio of games to movies. Nintendo isn't really being challenged at the moment, IMO. Sony was talking all kinds of stuff before the PSP even came out, yet the DS is leaving it in the dust in sales. A newer, redesigned DS that costs less will further Nintendo's dominance if Sony doesn't change it's act. They need to lower the price BADLY. Noone wants to spend $250 on something that can't hold more than 10 MP3s out of the box, when they can get an iPod Nano for the same price, or even pay a bit more and get an iPod video, cheaper than getting a PSP and a nice, fat memory card. The high prices on hardware, games, and accessories is what's really hurting it. Add to that it's not very durable, nor does it have a very long battery life, and it fails as a portable gaming device [in practice, of course]. It may excel in that it can do more than games, but does that really matter when it's cheaper to get another device and a GBA or DS?

[Andrew T. Hingson]

If you're paying more than 34.99 MSRP for a new DS game then you are getting ripped off.

I got Bust-A-Move DS for 19.99 today and it's freak'n awesome. More on that in it's own thread.

This is what it looks like to me. PSP is mostly for casual gamers and multi-media on the go lovers. The DS is a gaming machine. I'd say it's the comparison from an Xbox to a GCN. PSP is all about sports and racing games and at the moment it has some good RPG's but soon enough the DS will catch up and probably surpass it for RPG's. I would also say action games are better for the PSP because they are basically slightly scaled down versions of the PS2 games by design even when they are new games and not ports. So for action, sports, racing and RPG's you may want a PSP. DS is good for platformers and adventure titles (it's got Mario 64 not too mention a zillion good platformers from the GBA library along with more coming for the DS), puzzle games, mini-games and simulation (Nintendogs for one). The wireless ability really makes games like Mario Kart and Animal Crossing even better than their GCN counterparts (which were both good in my book). Let's not forget you can play any GBA game ever made (though sadly not GBC and GB) and that really does matter when it comes to portables. The PSP has a lot going for it but game wise it doesn't have anything I really want. Plenty of potential but nothing I'd pay THAT much for any time soon.

And sales don't lie. Nintendo is just making sure Sony knows they aren't going to give up the handheld market without a heck of a fight and that brand loyalty for handhelds goes a surprisingly long way.

[Artimus Gigan]

If you're paying more than 34.99 MSRP for a new DS game then you are getting ripped off.

I got Bust-A-Move DS for 19.99 today and it's freak'n awesome. More on that in it's own thread.

This is what it looks like to me. PSP is mostly for casual gamers and multi-media on the go lovers. The DS is a gaming machine. I'd say it's the comparison from an Xbox to a GCN. PSP is all about sports and racing games and at the moment it has some good RPG's but soon enough the DS will catch up and probably surpass it for RPG's. I would also say action games are better for the PSP because they are basically slightly scaled down versions of the PS2 games by design even when they are new games and not ports. So for action, sports, racing and RPG's you may want a PSP. DS is good for platformers and adventure titles (it's got Mario 64 not too mention a zillion good platformers from the GBA library along with more coming for the DS), puzzle games, mini-games and simulation (Nintendogs for one). The wireless ability really makes games like Mario Kart and Animal Crossing even better than their GCN counterparts (which were both good in my book). Let's not forget you can play any GBA game ever made (though sadly not GBC and GB) and that really does matter when it comes to portables. The PSP has a lot going for it but game wise it doesn't have anything I really want. Plenty of potential but nothing I'd pay THAT much for any time soon.

And sales don't lie. Nintendo is just making sure Sony knows they aren't going to give up the handheld market without a heck of a fight and that brand loyalty for handhelds goes a surprisingly long way.
Well to be frank, Nintendo hasn't had any competion in the Handheld market for a long long time. More or less not everything they do in the market should go undisputed. If there is serious competion that's where new ideas emerge faster and things you never even thought of seeing appear, which makes things more interesting and surprising. Nintendo ignored alot of genres in the handheld market, fighting games is a prime example. There were never any good fighters for the Nintendo handhelds, ever up to this point. The DS is getting Guilty gear but it will be different from the PSP version and the PSP version will be an entirely new game as well. Now Sony is offering fighting games that are in the vien of their console counterparts, so they are making it possable to play many high quality fighters on a portable machine. There is also Kingdom of paradise which shows that the machine can handle 3D Brawlers(even though the game contains RPG elements). So these are games that would not have seen the light of day on Nintendo portables.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

Why is it Nintendo's fault if 3rd party companies never bothered to make them? However the GBA has Guilty Gear, Sonic Battle and Super Street Fighter II: Turbo Revival among others and the GB had it's own Killer Instinct, SFII and plenty of other scaled down fighting games. I'll say this to Nintendo though. Where's is my freak'n portable Smash Bros. already? They could have made it for the GBA if they wanted to but now that they have the DS to work with and it has all the buttons and the tech to pull it off properly they have no excuse. It'd obviously be good for Wi-Fi as well.

GB fighting games certainly were lack-luster but the GBA fighters were quite good for the most part. There were not many of them but hey if you've got GG and SFII what else do you need?

3D brawlers eh? What makes you think the DS can't handle those? It's easily got nicer moving graphics than the N64 did. Nintendo isn't going to make a brawler I suppose but someone else could. Why Konami went with 2D for TMNT 3 is beyond me but hey maybe the next Turtles game for the DS will make better use of the technology.

PSP can bite me and my DS. It has nothing I want. But feel free to suggest something you think I might like. My favorite kind of portable games are puzzle, platformer, mini-game, action and the occasional RPG (but I have to really like the game and I already know there are some DS RPG's I want to play... PSP, nothing strikes my fancy yet at least).

And honestly I haven't found many people who say the PSP has great games much less games better than the DS has. Infact my friend who bought a PSP a year ago has hardly used his. He just got a DS and four games and he plays it a heck of a lot more. When I asked him what he thought of the DS compared to the PSP for games he said "it's no contest anymore".

The PSP has a ton of potential. It just isn't using it yet. When it does I may consider buying it (if the price is right). But don't push your "you should get both" talk on me. I'll stick with my DS until the PSP gets my attention and I can actually afford to buy one. I barely was able to get a DS as it is.

[.Automatisch]

Well to be frank, Nintendo hasn't had any competion in the Handheld market for a long long time. More or less not everything they do in the market should go undisputed. If there is serious competion that's where new ideas emerge faster and things you never even thought of seeing appear, which makes things more interesting and surprising. Nintendo ignored alot of genres in the handheld market, fighting games is a prime example. There were never any good fighters for the Nintendo handhelds, ever up to this point. The DS is getting Guilty gear but it will be different from the PSP version and the PSP version will be an entirely new game as well. Now Sony is offering fighting games that are in the vien of their console counterparts, so they are making it possable to play many high quality fighters on a portable machine. There is also Kingdom of paradise which shows that the machine can handle 3D Brawlers(even though the game contains RPG elements). So these are games that would not have seen the light of day on Nintendo portables.

Errrm, as a fighter fan, I must disagree with your opinion on fighters for the PSP. The D-Pad is atrocious. Playing DS on the PSP just destroys my thumbs, and it's soooo wholly uncomfortable. And while it does have GGXX, DS, and soon A3, that doesn't neccisarily mean PSP will be a haven for fighters in the near future. Portable fighters sound good on paper, but because no PSP fighter has online, it's entirely a waste of money. It's not like soooo many people will have copies of these games for you to play random scrubs in the wild, either. Besides, why pay full price for yet another version of Alpha 3? If you want competition and you're out in town anyways, just go to an arcade... I mean, MAYBE in Japan would you find some people out on the streets to play or something, but I highly doubt many people in the US are gonna rush out and get more ports of games that don't appeal to them because of the fact that the PSP seems to mostly appeal to casuals anyways. Or the few hardcore that want it for the interesting, original games. And not ports of old fighters that are cheaper on the PS2 anyways.

[Chad Bonin]

If you're paying more than 34.99 MSRP for a new DS game then you are getting ripped off.

I got Bust-A-Move DS for 19.99 today and it's freak'n awesome. More on that in it's own thread.
Hell, I got Mr. Driller: Drill Spirits brand new for $9.99 yesterday.

Well to be frank, Nintendo hasn't had any competion in the Handheld market for a long long time.
Neo Geo Pocket Color? GP32? Gizmodo? Wonderswan? Tiger? Any other handheld's Nintendo's owned so bad they couldn't even be released in America?


Errrm, as a fighter fan, I must disagree with your opinion on fighters for the PSP. The D-Pad is atrocious. Playing DS on the PSP just destroys my thumbs, and it's soooo wholly uncomfortable. And while it does have GGXX, DS, and soon A3, that doesn't neccisarily mean PSP will be a haven for fighters in the near future.
Yeah, it's sad when Capcom's having to release a D-Pad adapter with Street Fighter Alpha 3 Max because PSP's is horrid (seriously, alongside the oddly designated buttons, the d-pad design on the Playstation series is the worst feature EVAR).

Speaking of controls, I still say that a port of Soul Calibur on the DS would benefit greatly from the stylus. Use the D-Pad to move, L to guard, and the stylus to swing your sword.

[.Automatisch]

Neo Geo Pocket Color?

<3 NGPC... Still play mine. It sits on my dresser in my dorm and gets played a good amount. Card Fighters Clash for DS, though... I'm too excited for that. NGPC actually was a legit contender vs the GBC, but SNK went bankrupt... If only Playmore saved them BEFORE-HAND, there might be an NGPC2, with Neo ports galore.

[Chad Bonin]

Yes, my NGPC (picked up thanks to all those legit bundles you can find nowadays) gets the occassional play. IE, I've played it more in the past four months than my PSP.

[.Automatisch]

Well, SNK just did that Slug 1 port for GBA, so I hope more follow on the DS... With touch capabilities.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

Dang man, Capcom is releasing an adapter because the PSP controls are that awful? Now that's a bad design. Though on the flip side, the DS can be a bit hard to hold. Actually Nintendo's handhelds are rather notorious for not being all that comfortable to hold. My hands went numb playing the regular GBA at times, the GBA SP's design was a bit easier on the hands but not by much and L and R were still a bit difficult to hit. The DS feels a lot better than both IMO but they probably had the most comfortable design with the GBC. I hear the Micro is surprisingly nice actually but I haven't used one yet.

[Chris Sanders MSX]

I fully agree.

[Artimus Gigan]

Neo Geo Pocket Color? GP32? Gizmodo? Wonderswan? Tiger? Any other handheld's Nintendo's owned so bad they couldn't even be released in America?



that's the point, they were not released in america

and the ones that were did not even last a long time, Gamegear was the only noteable one

[Andrew T. Hingson]

Neo Geo Pocket gave Gameboy a run for it's money actually. Had the company done better it could have been quite good.

N-Gage was a joke and Nomad was a gimick and Tiger's crap was just that... crap though I guess some of it was neat. Nintendo made a good handheld with some obvious limitations but programers shrugged that off and made great games for it. That's why it overcame the Game Gear in the long run and also why nothing has toppled it.

The DS is following suit with competing against a system which has much more graphical power and potential by having great software not only from Nintendo but from third parties. Third parties support Nintendo handhelds still, thats one of the keys to that success. However the other key is Nintendo doesn't tend to delay portable game release nearly as much as console ones so plenty of good games come out each year from Nintendo for GBA and DS but there aren't many GCN games in comparrison.

Mark my words Gigan. Nintendo wont give up without a fight and furthermore will overcome the PSP. They have so far and they will in the end. As the quote goes "mess with the best, you go down like the rest". However I believe some serious competition is helping Nintendo take action and that should keep them on top for some time to come.

[Noukon]

Nintendo wont give up without a fight and furthermore will overcome the PSP.

Based on sales thus far, I'd say they have already. :D

That's not entirely true, though. The PSP is barely even in competition with the DS; it's more a tech gadget item, not a simple game system. I think what's happening is that Nintendo is continuing to have an almost monopolistic hold on the portable gaming market, whereas Sony has been selling mostly do a different audience.

[Chris Wood]

Based on sales thus far, I'd say they have already. :D

That's not entirely true, though. The PSP is barely even in competition with the DS; it's more a tech gadget item, not a simple game system. I think what's happening is that Nintendo is continuing to have an almost monopolistic hold on the portable gaming market, whereas Sony has been selling mostly do a different audience.

I assume this must be accurate. Nintendo must be vigorously marketing to kids. I can't imagine many adults choosing the DS over the PSP. At least I don't know why they would.

[William C. Maune]

I assume this must be accurate. Nintendo must be vigorously marketing to kids. I can't imagine many adults choosing the DS over the PSP. At least I don't know why they would.


For me at least, the DS has more games that interest me than the PSP.

[.Automatisch]

For me at least, the DS has more games that interest me than the PSP.

Agreed. I'm sick of this "Nintendo is for children" mindset some people have [not that I'm accusing you of it, Desslar]. There are MANY reasons why one would pick a PSP over a DS... It plays movies and music, it has a web browser, it can play games with graphics at the level of some PS2 games, it's small and sleek, and it has a nice big screen to boot. But then, there are cons to the system, like everything in life. There is a total lack of games [good ones at that], UMD movies are kinda pricey [you can get them cheap if you REALLY shop around], you have to buy a new memory stick to use the full capabilities of the system, there are loading times, it has a low battery life, it's fragile, it's uncomfortable to many, it has a widespread problem with dead pixels and stuck pixels, and overall it is not very ergonomic. If you don't mind those problems, or they don't exist in your case, then it is the handheld for you.

As for reasons for owning a DS over a PSP... It has a nice library of good games, it has multiple input methods for maximum customization in controls, it can play GBA games, it has a nice battery, it is durable as hell, and it is cheap. Cons would include: it is not very comfortable to some [the system is really rectangular, and feels weird at first... I personally like it, but some find it too large], it has lesser graphics than that of the PSP, it's bulky, the touch screen is fragile if you are too rough with it, and it needs an adapter to do multimedia functions.

While some of those pros and cons are neither to some people, I just listed them from my perspective, and generally most people's perspective. Graphics on a handheld are something I don't care about, as long as the game runs fast and isn't messy, I'm fine with simplistic graphics. I like the DS mainly because of it's library and the fact that it plays GBA games. But I also like it because it's different than anything else, and it brings new experiences to the table. The PSP is the "same old thing", and I stress that SOME PEOPLE PREFER THAT! But I can't deny the fact that Sony has done a weak job of getting AAA titles out on this system. Or even really solid original games. There are some, but not that many. I don't see a really large shift in this balance happening any time soon. The PSP will always be second if Sony doesn't fix the problems it has. Honestly, I personally would rather have an iPod and a DS or GBA than a PSP with a 2GB stick... Price-wise and quality-wise, that combo is a much better deal. The iPod can now play videos, and it has a very large amount of storage compared to getting a PSP and a 2GB stick. Plus you don't need to worry about screen issues, as Apple is very good at QC on the iPod screens. Depending on what you want, the PSP may suit you better, but to me it just seems like a big waste of money unless your hardcore [as I am], and must have every system to play the very few good games it DOES have...

[Andrew T. Hingson]

I know a lot of college guys who either want or have a DS and either don't use their PSP or don't care to buy ones

I'd say the GBA is still the main market for kids entertainment at this point but the DS is getting there.

The DS does some really nifty things. Portable online gaming for one and there's no link cables to boot. I was hanging out with a friend the other day using the download play function for Sonic (his) and Mario Kart (mine) and it was awesome to be able to do that with one cart (somewhat common with GBA games as well) and without any cable which can easily be pulled out. Wireless tech is freak'n sweet for sure and all the better if you can play stuff online. My one time thus far, playing Mario Kart using the WFC was fantastic fun. I just wish you could yell at folks with the mic on the DS.

But I'm going to have to cut back soon. I've been playing my DS a lot for a portable (the intial burn-off due to excitement I guess) and I've unlocked everything on Mario Kart but I know that'll be good times in the future when I have some friends to play with. So for now I'll play Bust-A-Move now and then and Mario Kart a few times to keep my skills up. But a portable isn't really something I want to be playing all the time. Like most have said, they aren't easy on your hands. Especially after hours of gaming. But since I drive on my own most of the time I don't really have the opportunity to play a portable device on the go all that often so I probably shouldn't have got any other portables at least until I beat more of my GBA games but hey it's Mario Kart and the best Bust-A-Move I've played yet and I just couldn't let those pass me by. Besides I can't own all the TMNT games without getting the DS one and I'm DIEING to try Jump Super Stars. And those alone should keep me busy but there are plenty of other good games I'm looking forward to as well as one that are already out like Mario and Luigi: Partners in Time and SM64 DS.

[Chris Wood]

snake']Agreed. I'm sick of this "Nintendo is for children" mindset some people have [not that I'm accusing you of it, Desslar]. There are MANY reasons why one would pick a PSP over a DS... It plays movies and music, it has a web browser, it can play games with graphics at the level of some PS2 games, it's small and sleek, and it has a nice big screen to boot. But then, there are cons to the system, like everything in life. There is a total lack of games [good ones at that], UMD movies are kinda pricey [you can get them cheap if you REALLY shop around], you have to buy a new memory stick to use the full capabilities of the system, there are loading times, it has a low battery life, it's fragile, it's uncomfortable to many, it has a widespread problem with dead pixels and stuck pixels, and overall it is not very ergonomic. If you don't mind those problems, or they don't exist in your case, then it is the handheld for you.

As for reasons for owning a DS over a PSP... It has a nice library of good games, it has multiple input methods for maximum customization in controls, it can play GBA games, it has a nice battery, it is durable as hell, and it is cheap. Cons would include: it is not very comfortable to some [the system is really rectangular, and feels weird at first... I personally like it, but some find it too large], it has lesser graphics than that of the PSP, it's bulky, the touch screen is fragile if you are too rough with it, and it needs an adapter to do multimedia functions.

While some of those pros and cons are neither to some people, I just listed them from my perspective, and generally most people's perspective. Graphics on a handheld are something I don't care about, as long as the game runs fast and isn't messy, I'm fine with simplistic graphics. I like the DS mainly because of it's library and the fact that it plays GBA games. But I also like it because it's different than anything else, and it brings new experiences to the table. The PSP is the "same old thing", and I stress that SOME PEOPLE PREFER THAT! But I can't deny the fact that Sony has done a weak job of getting AAA titles out on this system. Or even really solid original games. There are some, but not that many. I don't see a really large shift in this balance happening any time soon. The PSP will always be second if Sony doesn't fix the problems it has. Honestly, I personally would rather have an iPod and a DS or GBA than a PSP with a 2GB stick... Price-wise and quality-wise, that combo is a much better deal. The iPod can now play videos, and it has a very large amount of storage compared to getting a PSP and a 2GB stick. Plus you don't need to worry about screen issues, as Apple is very good at QC on the iPod screens. Depending on what you want, the PSP may suit you better, but to me it just seems like a big waste of money unless your hardcore [as I am], and must have every system to play the very few good games it DOES have...

I guess I stand corrected. I would have figured it would come down to the highest quality graphics (the DS games I've seen look a little rough), but I suppose there are other considerations.

[Noukon]

I guess I stand corrected. I would have figured it would come down to the highest quality graphics (the DS games I've seen look a little rough), but I suppose there are other considerations.
Quite a few, really. It's not so much "kids vs. adults" as it is "gamers vs. tech geeks." The PSP's major appeal is as a shiny tech device that people can show off. Some gamers will get good use out of it, but most of the people who buy it (and, indeed, the demographic that Sony is marketing to) aren't doing so for the game library.

On another note related to the "Nintendo is for kids" fallacy -- the idea behind Nintendo game design is that it should be accessible to everyone, not just children or adults. Simple, colorful art design is a staple, as is gameplay that seems simple on the surface but has an excess of hidden depth to discover. There are exceptions, but that's the rule, and that's why you will see plenty of adults playing on a DS (I know I see a lot).