"Memoirs of a Geisha" Talkback (Spoilers)

[purplehairedwonder]

http://z.about.com/d/movies/1/0/y/9/7/memoirsofageishaposter.jpg


"We do not become geisha to pursue our own destinies."


Release Date: December 23, 2005 (wide)
Studio: Sony
Director: Rob Marshall
Starring: Ziyi Zhang, Ken Watanabe, Gong LiGeisha, Michelle Yeoh, and Youki Kudoh

Synopsis (courtesty of MoviePhone (http://www.moviephone.com/)) : This film, based on the novel by Arthur Golden, unfolds from the perspective of Chiyo (Zhang Ziyi), a girl who, at the age of nine, is sold to a geisha house in Kyoto in the early 1930's. Here, she learns that becoming a geisha can be the single path to wealth and independence for a woman. The head geisha of her house, however, Hatsumomo (Gong Li), is bitterly jealous of Chiyo and abuses her at every opportunity. Eventually Chiyo is taken under the wing of Hatsumomo's rival, Mameha (Michelle Yeoh), by far the most famous and successful geisha in their district. Under Mameha's tutelage, Chiyo becomes Sayuri, the most legendary geisha in the nation, skilled in all areas, from conversation to dance, and sought after by seemingly every man alive...except for the one whom she has secretly longed for since she began her training, The Chairman (Ken Watanabe)--a man who showed her kindness at a time when her view of the world had turned the most bleak. Now as World War II approaches, Japan stands at the brink of a new era and Sayuri must confront the possibility that history will leave all that she has worked for behind.

Visit the official site here (http://http://www.sonypictures.com/movies/memoirsofageisha/site/)

Comments?

I was a bit surprised not to see a talkback yet, and I thought this movie deserved one.

[True Noir]

This movie was so beautiful. A classic along with the book. Even the few differences didn't matter. The young girl in the beginning that played Chiyo as a child did an excellent job! She put a tear to my eye from the first scene.

I love how the movie progressed in such a pace that had me glued to the seat. I really enjoyed the dances in the movie especially the performance that Sayuri put on in the theater. That was magnificant. The actress that played Hatsumomo did a good job but I think she could have been a bit more cruel. I adored the charater Mameha. She's truly one smart, resourceful woman with spark.

It was a truly, beautiful classic tale represented very well. Definately on my fave list.

A+

Oh, one thing, those eyes really drove me crazy! So beautiful they were...if I were blessed with such eyes...I don't know what I'd do! :)

[JLApe]

Either nobody else cares about this movie - typical Hollywood fare but not typical Hollywood movie - or nobody else has seen it yet.

I thought the movie could have been better. Have not read the book. Though if I have, I'd probably dislike the movie even more.

By Hollywood standards, it an adequate Cinderella story. Cinderella (Zhang Ziyi/Satyuri) sold into a geisha house run by two archetype stepmothers (Mother and Auntie), gets hell by a sorta Evil Queen (Gong Li/Hatsumomo), but is nurtured and groomed with utmost compassion by Fairy Godmother (Michelle Yeoh/Mameha). She meets Prince Charming (Ken Watanabe) and, like the previews say, every thing she does is to bring her closer to him. In the end, they kiss and live happily ever after.

There's been controversy regarding the casting Chinese actors as Japanese characters. But the script downplayed the cultural aspects such that it is much more about Cinderella the person - the geisha occupation is merely part of her identity - than the occupation itself. It does not tell you anything about geisha lifestyle or Japanese culture, other than what the character experiences. The roles could easily have been played by Caucasian or Asian-American actresses in the right make-up and sufficient (enough) training.

I don't like Rob Marshall's efforts on this movie. He's inexperienced, and lacks vision and depth. Geisha is supposedly an epic but there's not enough wide shots and panoramic shots to give the feel of an epic. He relies on close-ups to show us where and what action is taking place. Which gives me the impression he is just enacting what is written on paper. The movie also feels long. Well, so does King Kong except Kong re-enacts the aesthetics and atmosphere of the 1930's. Geisha doesn't do that (which incidentally is set in the same time period). You know you're looking at the 1930's when you see Kong. You don't get the same feeling when watching Geisha. I don't like how Marshall rushes through the first twenty minutes and then shifts from 5th to 2nd gear the next 2 hours. If he's trying to imitate Japanese directors, he's doing a terrible job of it. If he had paced Geisha like he did in Chicago and paced consistently (which he didn't), Geisha would have been a better movie.

That been said, I have no problems with the casting. The (Chinese) actors did the best they could with the constrain and limited amount of material given. Zhang is believable in parts - yes, she fares well in the dancing. Michelle Yeoh is clearly trying to act geisha, and is actually good. Gong Li is the most fun as the 'bad girl', one of those women that are really sexy when they're bad or evil.

I think most people here will like this movie if/when they go see it. I don't because I don't like most Hollywood movies anyway. Interesting story, good (enough) acting, horrible director.

[True Noir]

Hm..I thought Pumpkin's (Youki Kodo) sudden change after the okiya's destruction was very humorous. It's like she finally got what she most dearly desired, but for some reason her accent after that sounded so...out of place.

[JLApe]

That would be the Stepsister. I forgotten about her. :yawn:

[purplehairedwonder]

I thought this was about the best quality movie I've seen all year. It easily ended up on my favorites list.

While there were points it did feel a bit long, when I looked at the time it actually wasn't long... as opposed to King Kong, which was an hour too long (but that is neither here nor there).

Anyway, I loved it and I really need to read the book now.

[True Noir]

Anyway, I loved it and I really need to read the book now.

You definately should. The book is more detailed and a couple of scenes in the movie are different from what happens in the book. I think I like the book better than the movie. Not sure....

[tinlunlau]

casting so many chinese actors to play japanese people is ridiculous. i've asked other asians what they felt, and most of them gave a lukewarm reply about it. nothing positive, nothing negative. but slanting more on the negative side. as an asian myself, i figure my response would be the same. it's almost like the hollywood producers are telling the viewers that americans are too dumb to watch something subtitled.

[G. Wen]

Why would it be subtitled? The book was writen in English by an American author. Should the upcoming Casanova movie be in Italian and subtitled because it's about an Italian guy?
Anyways, I was impressed by the historically incorrect visuals and dances (since it's fiction, I'll let the historical incorrectness slide). However, the story is too convinient. This guy she has a crush on since she was 9 ends up liking her back? I know the story is supposed to be fairytale-like, but come on...

[James]

casting so many chinese actors to play japanese people is ridiculous. i've asked other asians what they felt, and most of them gave a lukewarm reply about it. nothing positive, nothing negative. but slanting more on the negative side. as an asian myself, i figure my response would be the same. it's almost like the hollywood producers are telling the viewers that americans are too dumb to watch something subtitled.

I did wonder this. I know my sister who was big on the book was very angry to see the casting was so generic, as if "well, all asians look alike to the west.." which if it is the case, is a pity. Interesting to see someone else with the same concern.

[Nightflower]

I did wonder this. I know my sister who was big on the book was very angry to see the casting was so generic, as if "well, all asians look alike to the west.." which if it is the case, is a pity. Interesting to see someone else with the same concern. I personally don't see this as big of an issue as the fact that many of the actors knew very little English when they were filming this movie and it shows. It would make more sense to find Japanese (Or for that matter, Asian) actors who can speak English fluently. Ian MacKellan is a great actor, but let's see how well he'd do if forced to speak Cantonese for the first time for a movie.

[True Noir]

I personally don't see this as big of an issue as the fact that many of the actors knew very little English when they were filming this movie and it shows. It would make more sense to find Japanese (Or for that matter, Asian) actors who can speak English fluently. Ian MacKellan is a great actor, but let's see how well he'd do if forced to speak Cantonese for the first time for a movie.

I agree. I am Asian too but I don't see the casting as such a big deal. I was a bit surprised and confused at the casting but when I saw the movie, I think they did a pretty good job. I'm sure things like this has happened before in other movies.

[tinlunlau]

Why would it be subtitled? The book was writen in English by an American author. Should the upcoming Casanova movie be in Italian and subtitled because it's about an Italian guy?
Anyways, I was impressed by the historically incorrect visuals and dances (since it's fiction, I'll let the historical incorrectness slide). However, the story is too convinient. This guy she has a crush on since she was 9 ends up liking her back? I know the story is supposed to be fairytale-like, but come on...

yes, i'm quite aware that the book is written in English by an American author but he is writing about a part of Japanese lifestyle. and English usually isn't part of that Japanese lifestyle in JAPAN.

[James]

I personally don't see this as big of an issue as the fact that many of the actors knew very little English when they were filming this movie and it shows. It would make more sense to find Japanese (Or for that matter, Asian) actors who can speak English fluently. Ian MacKellan is a great actor, but let's see how well he'd do if forced to speak Cantonese for the first time for a movie.

Well my first surprise was it had to be in English in the first place. If we take your point as fact, then the more rational (albeit less commercial) answer would be to have it subbed. But you see, that's the point. Even if there weren't enough solid Japanese actors/actresses who were skilled and bilingual (and I'm dubious about that), does it justify such misrepresentation to play on European's ignorance/disinterest/perception to cast roles from different races rather than sub it? It boils down to the need to be mainstream either way - whether it's because there wasn't enough actors who were bilingual, or the audience in question wouldn't noticed.

It's the integrity which is potentially disappointing. I just expected more cultural integrity from this film when I heard this film in particular was in production. I'm sure it makes no impact on the beauty or drama, but I don't like it. IMO, this should have been subbed. The West - particularly the English and the American need to get used to using subtitles more. It makes for a more intense and authentic experience. Hell, virtually every other nation does - so should we. ;)

I found it offensive having Mel Gibson portraying such an inaccurate Scot, so I guess it's just one of those things which irks me. :p Carry on, sorry to disrupt the flow here.

[G. Wen]

I know the film is about Japanese culture, and I know they don't speak English in Japan. However, the film is based on a book writen in English, and that's why the film is in English. The film Munich is about Isrealis and Palastinians, but it's in English. The film Casanova is about an Italian, but it's in English. Schindiler's list is in English...

On a side note, I'm pretty sure if they sent out a casting call for Japanese Americans to play the part of Sayuri, they'll get plenty of girls who can act and dance to play the part.

[JLApe]

There was a report from the Geisha casting camp that native Japanese actresses did not try to audition because they were intimidated by the necessity to speak English. Dunno if any Japanese-Americans tried to audition. Another report claims that the Korean actress from Lost was offered a part but declined for nationalist reason.

I didn't mind the movie being in English, as someone mentioned the original text is in English and the characters in it spoke in English. That wasn't the problem. The problem is the adaptation - feels too generic - and most especially the directing, which looks amateurish.

I had issues with the casting, but that was before seeing the movie. Personally, I prefer complete cast of Japanese actors. So do many naysayers in the iMDB forum dedicated to the movie (the hostilities there is through the roof, to say the least). All of them defended or (especially) condemned the product without ever seeing it first. I went into the movie skeptical that the casting could work. The casting turn out to be adequate. The material isn't. It plays out more like a generic fairy-tale, with the elements of geisha and Japanese culture serving as backdrop/set design.

The casting issue is more controversial in mainland China (see editorial from China Daily (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-11/11/content_493841.htm), and 'Memoirs of a Geisha' film kicks up storm in Japan and China (http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/entertainment/movies/13294079.htm)). Japan less so, apparantly Japanese audiences are more open-minded, though there were concerns raised. The reason is personal and historical, as opposed to mere authenticity and believable casting in cinema. Mainlanders have not forgotten the Sino-Japanese history going back to WWII and before. They are offended that not only are Chinese actresses playing Japanese characters (in a story set coincidentally prior to the start of the Sino-Japanese war), but also that the lead Chinese actress Zhang Ziyi is kissing a Japanese man in a manner not believable in real life - Chinese women were raped, tortured and massacred by the Japanese rather than engaging with them in consensual romance.

What's interesting is that Spielberg did not try to sympathize with the whole Sino-Japanese conflict, even though there were massacres committed that were comparable to the scale of the Holocaust, with more casualties than the 6 to 7 million Jews. Wonder how would he feel if there's a movie that romanticizes the Nazi regime with Jewish actors playing the Nazi officers. I bet he would be just as offended.

[Nightflower]

There was a report from the Geisha casting camp that native Japanese actresses did not try to audition because they were intimidated by the necessity to speak English. Dunno if any Japanese-Americans tried to audition. Another report claims that the Korean actress from Lost was offered a part but declined for nationalist reason.

I didn't mind the movie being in English, as someone mentioned the original text is in English and the characters in it spoke in English. That wasn't the problem. The problem is the adaptation - feels too generic - and most especially the directing, which looks amateurish.

I had issues with the casting, but that was before seeing the movie. Personally, I prefer complete cast of Japanese actors. So do many naysayers in the iMDB forum dedicated to the movie (the hostilities there is through the roof, to say the least). All of them defended or (especially) condemned the product without ever seeing it first. I went into the movie skeptical that the casting could work. The casting turn out to be adequate. The material isn't. It plays out more like a generic fairy-tale, with the elements of geisha and Japanese culture serving as backdrop/set design.

The casting issue is more controversial in mainland China (see editorial from China Daily (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-11/11/content_493841.htm), and 'Memoirs of a Geisha' film kicks up storm in Japan and China (http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/entertainment/movies/13294079.htm)). Japan less so, apparantly Japanese audiences are more open-minded, though there were concerns raised. The reason is personal and historical, as opposed to mere authenticity and believable casting in cinema. Mainlanders have not forgotten the Sino-Japanese history going back to WWII and before. They are offended that not only are Chinese actresses playing Japanese characters (in a story set coincidentally prior to the start of the Sino-Japanese war), but also that the lead Chinese actress Zhang Ziyi is kissing a Japanese man in a manner not believable in real life - Chinese women were raped, tortured and massacred by the Japanese rather than engaging with them in consensual romance.

What's interesting is that Spielberg did not try to sympathize with the whole Sino-Japanese conflict, even though there were massacres committed that were comparable to the scale of the Holocaust, with more casualties than the 6 to 7 million Jews. Wonder how would he feel if there's a movie that romanticizes the Nazi regime with Jewish actors playing the Nazi officers. I bet he would be just as offended. Spielberg did not do this movie. Some other dude did. Spielberg was originally signed on, however.

[JLApe]

He is credited as the producer. And he has spoken about the movie in interviews, one of which is quoted in the first article link.

When you go see the movie, look out for his name in the credits. You'll see it. I know I did.