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Rover_Wow
12-13-2005, 12:35 AM
1. This past Sunday, I saw the uncut version of the episode most of you will know as "Magical Reality Check", the one with Bloom's exam. I suspected that the train-wreck-ness of this particular ep (including, but not limited to, the ep's excuse for an ending) was a result of 4Kids' sloppy editing... and I was mostly right. Anyone here interested in reading about how it originally went? No? Well, here goes anyway.

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So, we have Bloom looking in a well, dropping a few coins, and thinking of Daphne (Daphne's even showing flying in the reflection in the water). The others have to call her a few times, before Bloom is out of her daze. Anyways, tomorrow they're due to take a visit to the "famed" Simulation Chamber at Alfea, and they're talking about whether it's safe or not.

Over at Cloud Tower, the Trix are having a meeting about Bloom, and summoning their CG-animated crystals. Icy points out that during the attack in the episode previous to this, the energy levels from Bloom were equal to that of the Dragon Fire, so they're going to test her, just to be sure that she's carrying the flame.

Next day. Palladium is showing off the simulation chamber. After blabbing about some applied phlebotinum about amber lights creating all kinds of environments (Stella, with tongue in cheek, asks whether it can simulate dates), he reveals that he's planning on simulating the final exams, and the Chamber tests are for midterms. He's offering a choice of two tests: reversing the effects of spells by witches, and restoring a damaged environment. The tests begin tomorrow.

That night. Bloom is with "Brandon" and his dog, talking about the whole deal with the midterms, and how nervous she is. "Brandon" wishes her luck. Up in a branch, Riven telepaths to Darcy, and we see Darcy hacking the chamber computer. More like casting a spell, but whatever.

Next day. Before the exams, Bloom is reading a few books, while Kiko (Bloom's bunny) sneaks into her bag. Chamber. While Faragonda is watching the tests through her magic mirror thing, Palladium asks for a volunteer. Although Stella has just mentioned that going early and getting it done with would reduce the pressure, no one dares to volunteer (Stella included). So he has to pick. He picks Bloom, asking her which test she's picked. She's picked the environment test. Palladium brings up a realm he identifies as Domino (we learn later in the series that this is where Bloom is from). Bloom asks if she can take her bag in, and she can. The others wish her luck, and here we go.

Inside the chamber. Bloom finds Kiko in her bag. After a bit of chiding, she plants some seeds and grows them using her magic. Enter the Trix. She thinks they're holograms, but even so, she knows she has to dispatch them, so cue transform. They fight. Faragonda is thinking that Palladium picked a really difficult test for Bloom, and if she passes, she'll get high marks. Um... DUH?

Cloud Tower. The Trix are playing with dolls. Stormy notes that she is consciously suppressing her powers, so they need to work her more.

Back in the chamber. Icy freezes Bloom's legs, but no problem with her fire powers. Icy points Kiko out to Bloom and, without even giving her a chance to save him, knocks him into a pool of lava. Icy tells Bloom "You're not going to let us get away with it, are you?" Bloom releases her full powers, and blows up the Trix.

Cloud Tower. That release of power melts their dolls, and registers on their crystals. That confirms it for them that Bloom has the flame. They cackle, and that's the last we see of the Trix.

Chamber. Bloom wakes up from a daze to see many bunnies. Her hand goes through one of them. She eventually finds the real Kiko (one of the background bunnies is flickering a bit). Outside, the others think that the computer is crashing, and Palladium runs, er, casts a restoration spell. The simulation shuts down, and the students enter. One of the first thing anyone says to her is "Did you know you just crashed the computer?" There are cracks in some of the amber lights. Because of this, the midterms will have to be postponed. Upon hearing this, everyone cheers for Bloom and throws her up and down in the air (Stella asks her if she can get the history exam postponed also ;)) as Faragonda looks on through her mirror. And that's it.

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Okay, summary over. When you think about it more, the more this ep (in its 4Kids version) falls apart. For example, the Trix make a point that to catch the flame, Bloom has to be using it. Yet when they do catch it several eps later, she's NOT using it.

2. Chalk this one up for the "I'm obsessed with Winx Club, and I'm not even in its target audience" group.

So one day I was sitting down and watching a rerun of WC (BTW: the ep where they sneak to Cloud Tower to steal Stella's ring, "Secret Guardian"). So during the parts which I felt were filler (for example, the bit with them stuck in a burning room for like half a minute... I guess 4Kids does have a reason to trim down the episodes a bit), I flip around other channels waiting for the filler to end. While I was waiting for some filler to end, my sister suddenly took the remote from me, and pushed a few random buttoms (the "filler" was almost over at that point).

It happens that the control buttons on the TV set don't work very well, meaning that while changing back to WC would only have taken a few seconds with the remote, and should only have taken a few seconds with the buttons on the set, it in fact took me what felt like half a minute (mostly because of one of her random presses changed the TV to the "AV" channel, and when I pressed the TV/AV button, it kept turning the channel display on/off instead... in hindsight, perhaps I should have just turned off the set, and then re-turned it on). I chided her for the rest of the day for that (the part I missed: Bloom's trance through the fire... I turned back just in time to see Bloom standing at a door and hear Daphne say that it'll guide them to safety), and she just chided me back for watching the 5th rerun of an ep I'd already seen (then again, I hadn't seen this bit in 6 months, i.e., 2 full bi-weekly cyclings of the first season) and call me obsessed. The only other cartoon I've been this obsessed about? "Hey Arnold!". (This is at the "I'm so obsessed with the show, even if it's a rerun I want to watch" level, BTW... I also have this same level of obsession for "The Amazing Race"... the fact I watch the family edition should say a lot too).

For the record, I am a 22 year old university master's student (male, BTW). So, not in the target audience. At least I can't imagine myself doing the situations mg_winx and others paint up here (http://michaelsfavorites2.com/winxclub3/ykywwtmwcw.html).

Then again (DIGRESSION!) while watching an ep of "The Apprentice 3" (yeah, my sister embraces most reality competition shows... TAR is an exception), there was one ep where the contestants made minigolf courses, and at one point, John Gafford accused Audrey Evans of making no decisions (http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/story.cgi?show=125&story=7624&page=6&sort=&limit=25), "so in case of any trouble, she could do this"... and then he crossed his arms and pointed out a finger on each. My first thought was "Pointing fingers". My second thought... "Turning into a fairy (http://bloomagnieszka1.za.pl/strony/uvs050306-151.html)" (yeah, they all point two fingers out like this, except Layla).

Freedom Fighter
12-13-2005, 03:00 AM
"Magical Reality Check" was one of my favorite episodes from Season One, mostly in part from the Trix 'seemingly' killing Kiko right in front of Bloom's eyes, and her subsequent reaction. Definitely one of the show's best moments, but also it's worst, as it foreshadowed towards several future occasions of Bloom just flashing, so to speak, the Trix into submission. Especially in the Season 1 finale, but I digress.


Next day. Palladium is showing off the simulation chamber. After blabbing about some applied phlebotinum about amber lights creating all kinds of environments (Stella, with tongue in cheek, asks whether it can simulate dates), he reveals that he's planning on simulating the final exams, and the Chamber tests are for midterms. He's offering a choice of two tests: reversing the effects of spells by witches, and restoring a damaged environment. The tests begin tomorrow.That sounds more like Stella. Still, I love the 4Kids dialogue for that set. Stella asks whether the chamber can simulate a world where there's no such thing as tests, and though Palladium agrees with that statement, he also refutes that the chamber could also create a world where tests would last forever.


Palladium brings up a realm he identifies as Domino (we learn later in the series that this is where Bloom is from).That part I don't seem to remember in the US version... 'less my memory's foggy.


Inside the chamber. Bloom finds Kiko in her bag. After a bit of chiding, she plants some seeds and grows them using her magic.This is the big point of contention I had with this episode. In the brief time after the chamber was activated but before the Trix 'appeared,' shouldn't Palladium or Faragonda have shut down the program because they saw Kiko in with her (assuming he would be identified as an unapproved 'item' brought in for help with the exam)?


One of the first thing anyone says to her is "Did you know you just crashed the computer?" There are cracks in some of the amber lights. Because of this, the midterms will have to be postponed. Upon hearing this, everyone cheers for Bloom and throws her up and down in the air (Stella asks her if she can get the history exam postponed also ) as Faragonda looks on through her mirror. And that's it.Ha, so their first feeling is to ask if Bloom destroyed the machine, not if Bloom was alright? In this instance, I'll chalk one up for the 4Kids dub.


For example, the Trix make a point that to catch the flame, Bloom has to be using it. Yet when they do catch it several eps later, she's NOT using it.Now that part I don't really remember if they actually said that in the US version.

mg_winxclub
12-13-2005, 07:01 AM
Everyone is a critic and must express their opinions to the world! Can't you just enjoy the show? Most of the country doesn't have access to the Italian version of the series afterall, so they watch the USA version and love it anyway. But when it gets slammed in message boards, because it's not EXACTLY as the original Italian version, that's when you anger people.

Conan-san
12-13-2005, 07:44 AM
Everyone is a critic and must express their opinions to the world! Can't you just enjoy the show? Most of the country doesn't have access to the Italian version of the series afterall, so they watch the USA version and love it anyway. But when it gets slammed in message boards, because it's not EXACTLY as the original Italian version, that's when you anger people. Oh yeah, cause everyone loves 4kids version of One Piece.

mg_winxclub
12-13-2005, 08:04 AM
I'm not talking about One Piece, which is from Japan. We all know USA censorships will not allow a character to be smoking on a Saturday morning cartoon, whether it's an anime from Japan or not.

Gokou Ruri
12-13-2005, 01:11 PM
Oh yeah, cause everyone loves 4kids version of One Piece. One Piece is an anime, Winx Club isn't, so I think it's safe to assume anime fans will be more "concerned" about edits more than Winx Club fans would. :D Shows from Italy and France being edited have no backlash here because it doesn't have a "vocal" fanbase like anime.

Beat
12-13-2005, 01:28 PM
That doesn't make it right, that just means the fans aren't as numerous. Big difference.

Gokou Ruri
12-13-2005, 01:33 PM
There's tons of fans, it's just that they don't care honestly. Same with Code Lyoko and Totally Spies, two other French shows in America that are released "English-only" but still have big fanbases.

Yash
12-13-2005, 07:12 PM
I'm not talking about One Piece, which is from Japan. We all know USA censorships will not allow a character to be smoking on a Saturday morning cartoon, whether it's an anime from Japan or not. We know that, and most of us have come to terms with it. However, the edits made to One Piece go far beyond making a show suitable for children and degrade it into something almost entirely different.


Everyone is a critic and must express their opinions to the world! That's life, kid. Do you expect everyone to be in full support of the English dub?

Rover_Wow
12-13-2005, 08:32 PM
Okay, I wanted to reply much earlier, but I had a few chores to get around to first.

First, one thing I forgot in the original summary:


Over at Cloud Tower, the Trix are having a meeting about Bloom, and summoning their CG-animated crystals. Icy points out that during the attack in the episode previous to this, the energy levels from Bloom were equal to that of the Dragon Fire, so they're going to test her, just to be sure that she's carrying the flame.

Also, during this sequence, Knut comes in and asks the sisters about why they want the flame. The sisters only mention that it involves something about the past.


Palladium brings up a realm he identifies as Domino (we learn later in the series that this is where Bloom is from).

That part I don't seem to remember in the US version... 'less my memory's foggy.

This may be because, for some reason, 4Kids had Domino changed to Sparx.


One of the first thing anyone says to her is "Did you know you just crashed the computer?" There are cracks in some of the amber lights. Because of this, the midterms will have to be postponed. Upon hearing this, everyone cheers for Bloom and throws her up and down in the air (Stella asks her if she can get the history exam postponed also ) as Faragonda looks on through her mirror. And that's it.

Ha, so their first feeling is to ask if Bloom destroyed the machine, not if Bloom was alright? In this instance, I'll chalk one up for the 4Kids dub.

Well, thinking about it, I think Palladium did check if she was alright first, then one of the students asks her about crashing the computer. (Surely I can't be the only one who's watched the so-called UK dub, or failing that the original Italian... can anyone here confirm?)


For example, the Trix make a point that to catch the flame, Bloom has to be using it. Yet when they do catch it several eps later, she's NOT using it.

Now that part I don't really remember if they actually said that in the US version.

But in 4Kids' version of this episode, they make it look like they have to get Bloom to use the flame for them to catch it, which turns out not to be the case.

Hordesman
12-13-2005, 09:35 PM
I have to say I do find the editing spotty as of late.

That's why I'm waiting to get Winx DVDs during my trip to Turin for the Olympics, just like I grabbed season 1 of Funky Cops in France over a year ago.

Darcy
12-14-2005, 01:57 AM
*shrug* This goes both ways. I can't make a case for the Italian being better simply because it's the original. I think the American has made some excellent changes, most notably the "Bloom does not resurrect Sky from the dead." Also, I have not and likely will never see the original version. Do I want to? Yes, I'm curious. Would it change my opinion of the American? Not too much. I'd like to see what we're missing, especially little bits like Brandon's flashbacks, but honestly, I'm not too fussed about it. I'm happy we have this show here to begin with and I'm not going to drive myself nuts by picking apart the most easily accessible version. I don't really see a point to it. Different people get different things. That's life. If this is the version I get, I'm satisfied with it. I'm not sure where picking it apart really gets you anyway. If you don't like the American version, then don't watch it. Just watch the one you prefer. Seems simple enough to me.

Freedom Fighter
12-14-2005, 02:36 AM
Honestly, there should be no problem with speaking one's mind, right? Rover's spotting these differences and hoping someone other than him is curious about them. Some of us are, some of us aren't, fair enough. Yes, they are a few questionable edits and jumps in the 'Winx Club' dub. It's fair to say that's the case in all of 4Kids' dubbed shows. But at the same time, I doubt anyone can point to one particular moment or scene in the 4Kids dub and tell me that the company completely and beyond utter repair ruined that said moment/scene.

It's obvious the difference between what one fan is looking for in the show and what a second may be. But can we honestly either find a way to discuss this topic in peace or just drop the whole discussion of dub differences?

Yash
12-14-2005, 08:44 AM
*shrug* This goes both ways. I can't make a case for the Italian being better simply because it's the original. I think the American has made some excellent changes, most notably the "Bloom does not resurrect Sky from the dead." Also, I have not and likely will never see the original version. Do I want to? Yes, I'm curious. Would it change my opinion of the American? Not too much. I'd like to see what we're missing, especially little bits like Brandon's flashbacks, but honestly, I'm not too fussed about it. I'm happy we have this show here to begin with and I'm not going to drive myself nuts by picking apart the most easily accessible version. I don't really see a point to it. Different people get different things. That's life. If this is the version I get, I'm satisfied with it. I'm not sure where picking it apart really gets you anyway. If you don't like the American version, then don't watch it. Just watch the one you prefer. Seems simple enough to me. I can't really say about Winx Club since I was turned off by its 4Kids-ness, but with anime shows like One Piece or Tokyo Mew Mew, the problem most people have generally lies in the fact that 4Kids doesn't release the original versions of their properties, and the only way to get the original material is to:

1) Bootleg (illegal)
2) Download (illegal)
3) Import (costly and no subtitles)

Honestly, I think that if people don't like the dub, they should be at least given the option to watch the original, instead of being forced to use such methods to acquire the original.

RayChuang
12-14-2005, 09:22 AM
3) Import (costly and no subtitles)
By the way, if you have a TV and DVD player that can play back PAL video (e.g., a multi-format player/TV), you can actually get the original Italian Winx Club DVD's. This is because there's an English-language track on the DVD, essentially the same soundtrack on the version broadcast in the UK.

Hordesman
12-14-2005, 11:26 AM
Honestly, I think that if people don't like the dub, they should be at least given the option to watch the original, instead of being forced to use such methods to acquire the original.

The thing is, 4Kids probably did a cost-benefit analysis on this issue. They assessed demand and the possible threat to their kiddie franchises by releasing uncuts. And yes, 5 came out between YGO and Shaman King. But now these releases are in limbo. I say they're turning a blind eye and hoping some of these original version fans will help the franchise by buying merchandise released here.

Yash
12-14-2005, 04:51 PM
The thing is, 4Kids probably did a cost-benefit analysis on this issue. They assessed demand and the possible threat to their kiddie franchises by releasing uncuts. And yes, 5 came out between YGO and Shaman King. But now these releases are in limbo. I say they're turning a blind eye and hoping some of these original version fans will help the franchise by buying merchandise released here. I think it's either because they're just stupid or they're childish. They totally disregarded the fact that the uncut DVDs outsold their edited counterparts (it speaks volumes about the demand for them when Shaman King's lone two DVDs are outselling the recent Yu-Gi-Oh! edited DVD, which twice the episodes for half the price) and if they keep up their moronic business moves, they're not going to last long.

However, Viz is saying that they might consider releasing One Piece in uncut box sets, which is good, but with how much effort 4Kids is putting into making sure nobody has access to the original version, I don't know if it'll last or even get off the ground...

Gokou Ruri
12-14-2005, 05:18 PM
I think it's either because they're just stupid or they're childish. They totally disregarded the fact that the uncut DVDs outsold their edited counterparts. That's anime, which Winx Club isn't.. Winx's DVDs, which only has the same version shown on TV, are ranked in the 3000's on Amazon's rank list. (Which is extremely well, considering the uncut Yu-Gi-Oh! DVDs are in the 20,000's.)

I understand where you're coming from, but I've said before, you can't apply the anime market logic to non-anime products. They have completely different customers with completely different expectations.

Hordesman
12-15-2005, 03:31 AM
I think it's either because they're just stupid or they're childish. They totally disregarded the fact that the uncut DVDs outsold their edited counterparts

Money is money... but when it comes to Corporations lucrative opportunities get set aside when they threaten a company's reputation which is essentially their future. Think of how one (epilepsy-triggering) episode of Pokemon was removed from circulation after its airing in Japan some 8 years ago. With one airing and no licensed video/DVD releases, this episode couldn't have earned back its production costs. But holding it off is still paying off, because this episode is a liabilty to the franchise. I don't even think it was serialized in "film comics", GNs with episode stills. An extra episode adds value to the series, but it poses far too many drawbacks to be worth it.

Yash
12-15-2005, 05:30 PM
That's anime, which Winx Club isn't.. Winx's DVDs, which only has the same version shown on TV, are ranked in the 3000's on Amazon's rank list. (Which is extremely well, considering the uncut Yu-Gi-Oh! DVDs are in the 20,000's.) The uncut Yu-Gi-Oh! DVDs were actually pretty high up when they were first released (when volume 4 was on pre-order on Amazon it was in the 3,000s).


I understand where you're coming from, but I've said before, you can't apply the anime market logic to non-anime products. They have completely different customers with completely different expectations. :/ Hordesman was the one who brought it up.

I'm sure that Winx Club uncut DVDs would sell > the edited DVDs. The people who watch the TV dub would buy it to see what they're missing, the people who want the original would buy it to see what they've wanted to see. Everyone wins.


Money is money... but when it comes to Corporations lucrative opportunities get set aside when they threaten a company's reputation which is essentially their future. The thing is, shows like Shaman King and One Piece's primary audiences are found in teenagers, and it shows (think of how Shaman King was only able to keep afloat by its teen ratings, or how One Piece has extremely high ratings with older audiences as compared to its kid viewers).

And honestly, if they were genuinely concerned about how it would affect their image, they wouldn't have released uncuts to begin with, or be considering uncut One Piece DVDs (which will likely cost less for a fan to buy in the long run, giving them more incentive to collect it).

Rover_Wow
12-15-2005, 08:58 PM
I'm sure that Winx Club uncut DVDs would sell > the edited DVDs. The people who watch the TV dub would buy it to see what they're missing, the people who want the original would buy it to see what they've wanted to see. Everyone wins.

Except that the people who watch the TV dub don't really notice anything missing in general. (Okay, there's the matter of Brandon's flashbacks in "My Boyfriend's Wedding"...)

Speaking of missing stuff... has anyone checked out my Winx cuts site (http://members.tripod.com/~Rover_Wow/wccio.htm) yet?

Yash
12-16-2005, 03:26 PM
Except that the people who watch the TV dub don't really notice anything missing in general. (Okay, there's the matter of Brandon's flashbacks in "My Boyfriend's Wedding"...) Then they market the DVDs as uncut and people start becoming interested.