Ninja Turtles or Power Rangers?

[Brettfern]

Who likes TMNT better? I was never a Power Rangers fan. My sister was a die-hard PR fan. TMNT is way cooler than PR... Don't you think so?

[CyberCubed]

TMNT. You don't know how disappointed I was when the TMNT fad ended back in the early 90's because of Power Rangers. They stole TMNT's audience. :(

[AdamYJ]

I like 'em both.

[Chad Bonin]

You're about to instigate a mass conflict here.

I'll I'm gonna say is that I can enjoy all 573 episodes of one universe, and that universe is Power Rangers. In comparison, TMNT was entertaining as a kid, but the old episodes just aren't entertaining, and the new series thoroughly failed to unwow me.

[Pc-Famicom64]

Never was found of Power Rangers,But I do like TMNT (1980's wise ) ,4-Kids is ok but I like The 1980's Vergin better (I Never saw it for Years but I Don't no when I'm goin to Buy The DVD for Now) .

[Hordesman]

TMNT all the way.

BTW, any of you guys read the Archie "Year of the Turtle" mini-series where these MMPR types are working for Shredder? I never did get the last issue or two.

[Anthonynotes]

TMNT by a country mile; the Power Rangers is what me and my fellow classmates ridiculed to death when they first showed up back in junior high or high school (the late 80's/early 90's). ;-)

[Simpler Simon]

Is there even a basis for comparison between these two shows? No. So why are they being compared?

[Master Moron]

Power Rangers is just a butchered version of a bunch of sentai shows. I fail to see how you can even compare it to Ninja Turtles.

[straw_hat]

I enjoyed both as a kid but I'm still going to choose TMNT over Power Rangers. Seriously I can't possibly seat through anything Power Rangers related anymore without finding it way to cornball. Don't get me wrong I'd probably still get a nostalgic kick out the early seasons but my interest in the franchise is gone.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

Ninja Turtles fo sho.

[AnimatedSnow47]

I'd have to go with Power Rangers. As a whole, it's quite enjoyable. Sure, there were the bad series (Turbo through Time Force), but the original was awesome, Zeo was good, Wild Force brought the show back to enjoyable, Ninja Storm rocked, Dino Thunder was great and SPD was also quite enjoyable. Power Rangers has great special effects, good acting, and enjoyable tales of good vs. evil. But, I wish they would just keep the same series going and not have the rangers lose their powers at the end of every series.

Ninja Turtles, especially the 1980s original, is also great. The 1980s series had great animation and voice acting, true--but it was the sense of humor and camp that makes it enjoyable in my eyes. And, the great theme song. The current TMNT series is alright, but nothing to make me stop watching the criminally-underrated Loonatics Unleashed for.

[Scythemantis]

What's with these comparisons between completely different shows? They don't make sense.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

Completely different? Hardly.

Both have a group of heroes fighting to save the city/the world, boy are very popular boys action franchises, both sell loads of toys and both involve martial arts.

But most importantly they have both been the most popular boys action franchise at a time and now they both co-exist so those who grew up with one or both compare them all the time.

[bigddan11]

I like both series frankly, and it would depend on what season you're asking about. I'd always put MMPR as #1 on my list of favorites, but the new TMNT would be 2 followed by DinoThunder, Time Force, etc down to Turbo. The original Turtles would probably be inbetween Zeo and Wild Force on my favorites list.

[NightwingAngelo]

Ninja Turtles all the way!

[sdp]

well seeing this is a toon board TMNT are going to win, but PR deserves a lot of credit, i am a fan of both, PR continues from when its started to right now, while the turtels already had two revivals. so at least in popularity PR still beats the turtles like it did back in the day :p

[Chad Bonin]

Power Rangers is just a butchered version of a bunch of sentai shows. I fail to see how you can even compare it to Ninja Turtles.How can a show that aides the Japanese version in creation be a butchered version of a show? (Ref: The Disney-made SPD Battlizer being used in Magiranger VS Dekaranger, the G-Zord in Timeranger, American/New Zealand producer Sally Campbell and Jetix Productions being credited in Mahou Sentai Magiranger, etc.)

[Andrew T. Hingson]

The same way UM is still "butchered" (though not horribly) despite 4kids helping it continue beyond where Japan left it.

[Storm Eagle]

Who likes TMNT better? I was never a Power Rangers fan. My sister was a die-hard PR fan. TMNT is way cooler than PR... Don't you think so?
No. They're both cool. Thank you.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

Power Rangers has it's own charms and the first 3 seasons are the good kind of cheese for sure (like season 1 of TMNT 89) but honestly... PR has never been cool. TMNT at least started as a gritty black and white comic... I pitty the fool who takes PR seriously at all. It can be fun to watch but cool? Nah... and never will be.

[Peter Paltridge]

Turtle Power! No contest.

[Chad Bonin]

I pitty the fool who takes PR seriously at all.Wow, someone never heard of a season called "Time Force" where the Red Ranger dies in the first episode, and a major theme running through the series is fate and destiny and how evil begets evil, and even continues into the crossover with redemption, which occurred during a season where the main hero had to come face to face with the man who murdered his parents...

[Great_MeowWoof]

What's with these comparisons between completely different shows? They don't make sense.I'm gonna agree with Scythe here. And can I point out that power rangers has nothing to do with animation? Though "Toon" Disney certainly likes to think it does...for some unknown reason. xP

That said, the only similarities between the two, besides the heroes being martial arts experts, is that each series had it's reject offspring. with TMNT, it was that Next Mutation show...and with Power Rangers, heh, well...any of the spinoffs after the original "Mighty Morphin Power Rangers" ended. ^^; I digress...but that's as far as the similarities go. :zim:

[Chad Bonin]

And can I point out that power rangers has nothing to do with animation?Sure there wasn't an animated episode called "Drawn Into Danger"... wait....

[Pupmon 4.0]

My mother didn't want me watching Power Rangers when I was young, because she thought it was violent. On the other hand, she let me watch TMNT because it was a cartoon I suppose. And therein, I became an instant fan of TMNT. Although, one of the reasons I like TMNT better than Power Rangers is because
TMNT is about animals and Power Rangers isn't. But I must admit, even though I don't like Power Ranger as a whole, I was strangely captivated by Power Rangers: Time Force.

[New Noise]

I like Ninja Turtles much better than Power Rangers.

[The Dork Knight]

I've gotta go with the Ninja Turtles on this one.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

Wow, someone never heard of a season called "Time Force" where the Red Ranger dies in the first episode, and a major theme running through the series is fate and destiny and how evil begets evil, and even continues into the crossover with redemption, which occurred during a season where the main hero had to come face to face with the man who murdered his parents...
Yeah I've heard of Time Force. One of the better PR series without a doubt probably the most "serious" one but I still don't consider it serious compared to the old TMNT comics (or the current Mirage TMNT comics for that matter). Probably on level with the current TMNT cartoon though.

Seriously Knux I know you love Power Rangers and I enjoy watching them but honestly... it's just silly flashy stuff meant to entertain children wether it be from America or Japan (I've watched some of the series that became PR here). More characters die in Japan for one thing... but overall it's still not very serious nor meant to be.

[Brettfern]

Turtle Power! No contest.
All I have to say is this: GO GREEN MACHINE!!!!

[Chad Bonin]

Seriously Knux I know you love Power Rangers and I enjoy watching them but honestly... it's just silly flashy stuff meant to entertain children wether it be from America or Japan (I've watched some of the series that became PR here). More characters die in Japan for one thing... but overall it's still not very serious nor meant to be.I'm sorry, but I can't see TMNT being a much more serious series, especially given that this thread is (most likely) focusing on the cartoons, given the board it's located on.

And yes, I've watched some of the series that became PR too. Dekaranger is literally "COPS... with giant robots".

Once the show started having the fans work on it, and the realization that PR can do much much more than Super Sentai by nature of having continuty, along with the fact it began to push children's live-action entertainment boundaries (Cole's parents were not killed by a monster of the week, but a regular human being who lusted after the mom)... and yeah, it can be more than silly flashy stuff.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

So you wanna talk about serious situations okay.

In "Same as it Never Was" every turtle except Donatello, Karai, Shredder and Hun/Stockman died on screen. In "Bad Day" Casey and April died on screen. In "Rogue in House" Zog died saving the turtles from Shredder. Splinter's master Hamato Yoshi also died on screen at the hands of the Shredder. While Leonardo didn't actually kill him, he struck Shredder with the intent to kill in season one decapitating him on screen.

Don't even get me started on the comic because when someone died in that they didn't do it in a tame fasion.

[Chad Bonin]

Space- Karone/Astronema dies in battle with her brother, Andros. Zordon's wave brings her back to life though. Zordon's life is sacrificed to save everyone in the universe.

Lost Galaxy- Magna Defender's son dies. Mike is believed dead for most of the series. Kendrix dies saving Terra Venture. Magna Defender dies himself.

Lightspeed Rescue- Ryan died. Yes, technically, he's a Zombie Ranger.

Time Force- Alex, Time Force Red dies in the first episode. Mr. Collins, Wes' father, dies in the present time defending his son. Both are brought back due to 30th century tech. Dr. Ferricks was killed by Ransik, but turned into a robot, Frax, eventually killed, only managing to turn Nadira to the side of good with his excellent "hate begets hate" speech. Ignore that he was rather insane at the time.

Wild Force- Cole's parents were murdered (off-screen, but the leading up is shown). Viktor Adler, their murderer, also died later on.

Ninja Storm- Hunter and Blake's adoptive parents (and potentially, their real parents) were killed. Cam's mom Maiko is no longer living. Skyla was killed by one of Lothor's inevitable generals.

DinoThunder- "Smitty" was killed, but given he was turned into Zeltrax, but has his origins as a human, I'll put him in this category.

SPD- Sky's father was killed by Mirloc. Crugger's wife was believed to be dead half the season. In Omega's future, SPD fell in battle.

Note that I have left off all monsters, criminals, demons, mutants, etc. that may and have been sentient (not created ten minutes before, but having had a full life raised evil), along with all sentient Zords, robots, etc. If you really want to boil it down, four Rangers have died in battle, two have died before being Rangers, and one major ally has died in battle

[Andrew T. Hingson]

How many of those deaths were depicted in a fasion that really made you feel something for the character? I felt something for Zordon and the Magna Defender's son and I agree that Time Force had many serious moments. I actually felt really bad for Ransik because of his tortured life. The rest though... eh...

[Ryoutarou]

Power Rangers has it's own charms and the first 3 seasons are the good kind of cheese for sure (like season 1 of TMNT 89) but honestly... PR has never been cool. TMNT at least started as a gritty black and white comic... I pitty the fool who takes PR seriously at all. It can be fun to watch but cool? Nah... and never will be....and was TMNT 'cool'? It was a fad as much as Power Rangers is. And...sentai does take itself more serious and you can actually look at the older stuff in a serious tone. Jetman, the show that came before Zyuranger which was used for PR had one of it's rangers die on screen in the last episode after the bad guys were all dead and gone.

This next part might be a little spoiler-y so...I'll just play with caution and add spoilers.
Black ranger was on his way to the wedding of red and white when he sees a lady getting mugged. He catches the mugger, gives the lady back her purse, and makes his way back to the wedding only to be jumped and stabbed by the same mugger. He still goes to the wedding and watches afar from a bench. The red ranger comes to join him and notices him looking odd, black tells him to just go and enjoy his wedding day, so he does. Black looks up to the sunset, lites a smoke and then quickly his hand falls to his side and his eyes slowly close. That actually makes you feel for the character, it's the end of the series, there's no bringing him back. Then Zyuranger had their sixth ranger die....didn't make you feel for you, but he died. Timeranger had Timefire die on screen as well, Abaranger had it's sixth ranger die. [spoiler]There's an armor that turns it's wearer evil, the white ranger takes the armor in place of the black ranger, but his body is too weak to handle it now as he's just had the snot beat out of him and is dripping blood. So he and his zord fly off into space with the white ranger saying 'It's ironic in a sense, I wish to live with the humans now...' since he was evil from episode 20 to episode 47...then he blows up.

I know TMNT has deaths as well and I'm not downplaying them, but PR/Sentai have had deaths that can give you the same emotional impact as TMNT can. When characters die, I like it if they can stay dead, to me it cheapens the effect of them dying just to have them come back.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

TMNT's cartoons may or may not have been "cool". Season 1 of the old show was a fine animated series but past that it was indeed just fad. The new show is significantly better but the source material of TMNT was indeed "cool". It was some edgy satire of the current comic industry back in the 80's. So no matter if PR or Japanese sentai pushes kids entertainment further than TMNT does at some point TMNT will still have the Mirage comics which were anything but kids stuff.

[Great_MeowWoof]

Sure there wasn't an animated episode called "Drawn Into Danger"... wait....
Okaaaay...I meant for the *MOST* part that Power Rangers has *nothing* to do with animation, -ASIDE- from that one episode. In other words, I don't think one episode done with animation constitutes it as an entire animated series. ;)

[Brettfern]

Okaaaay...I meant for the *MOST* part that Power Rangers has *nothing* to do with animation, -ASIDE- from that one episode. In other words, I don't think one episode done with animation constitutes it as an entire animated series. ;)
If it has nothing to do with animation, then why is it on TOON Disney?

[Andrew T. Hingson]

Because Disney's stupid.

[Juu-kuchi]

Neither.

VR Troopers *****es.

[roguefan7]

TMNT for sure.....i mean, who could resist their pizza-eating charm? Power rangers was a bit cheesy...

[Chad Bonin]

Karone's death took half an episode, and the rest of the series missed her. Mr. Collins had one of those great, dramatic "race to the bedside only to miss him passing" scenes. Skyla's death was great, but only tarnished by the fact five seconds later, Shane went all Battlized to get revenge. Sky's father's death was Sky's entire motivation throughout the series, and once he faced the murderer, it had the excellent groundbreaking "passing of the morpher" scene; since Sky's dad was the Red Ranger, Jack found it fitting that Sky use his morpher, become the Red Ranger, and take him out all by himself with the Battlizer. "Smitty" (Terrance Smith) had some good lead-up, and then the disturbing fact that after realizing he was far too gone, Tommy had to kill him before others died.

And Dr. Ferricks to Frax... man, you didn't want the villain to die.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

I say one thing Knux you've done your homework but I'm still not convinced.

[Chad Bonin]

I've done my homework by watching at least 550 episodes of this 573+ episode universe (The 20 or so I've missed come from the Turbo-Wild Force years).

[NinjaJack]

I've done my homework by watching at least 550 episodes of this 573+ episode universe (The 20 or so I've missed come from the Turbo-Wild Force years).Well I`ve watched them all period.


Rangers and Turtles are cut from the same cloth. No matter their origin they are both known for being a small group of color branded teenagers fighting evil and speaking crazy catchphrases like "Morphinominal!" and "Cowabunga!"

I dressed up with a pillow straped to my back as a kid watching the show's theme blare out in the living room. I would take my brother's baby toys and pretend it was a Power Morpher. If loving these two brands is a sickness I`m quite ill.

You have your facts and head on straight Sketch, PR doesn`t have the volume of seriousness that TMNT new show has. But it sure isn`t from lack of trying.

One story you need to learn is the Dr.Adler story. A man falls in love with his assistent, he buys her a ring and on the night he prepares to purpose she tells him that she's met a wonderful guy. The three of them become a reserch team and end up far away in the Amazon jungles. It's here that Dr.Adler binds himself with evil seeds that give him supernatrual powers.

He uses these new powers to first kill his unsupspecting rival, then he looks for the wife. The women is Mrs. Evens, Red Rangers mother, she recently bore here baby son and runs for their life in the jungles humid air.
Adler eventually finds her, he wants to kill the baby first but she`s already hid him away. So Adler kills her on screen via being overtaken by vines

The baby eventually grows up without a last name, Cole. Cole, a few months near the end of his Ranger days, learns his last name is Evans. Hoping to locate his parents unknown of their deaths he greatly looks forward to finding them. Sadly he is greeted only with the location of their graves. "I came all this way to find them and I`m too late"

He soon learns Adler survived and has recently turned up in a hospital. Cole befriends him, not knowing he is a murderer. Eventually he finds that Adler is Master Org, the chief villian, and that not only did he kill his parents but and I quote "Yes, I did it, and you know what? I ENJOYED it!"

Being a person of pure heart Cole doesn`t understand this at first, why would someone kill another human being?

Cole is then forced to come to terms that this man is a proud killer and a killer of his parents. This leads to a great battle, one of the best in Ranger history.

This (http://www.rangercentral.com/episodes/ep444/index.htm) is the play by play

There have been pleanty of other great stories of death honor and glory in PR, but lets just start with the aforementioned.:crying:

[Teknomancer]

TMNT by miles! Not a big fan of the Power Rangers... its always been Go Ninja Go Ninja Go!!

[Lazyboi13]

Power rangers is just dreadful. Most crappy cartoons can watch at least episode of for a nostegic blast when i'm home alone, but I can't watch 5 Minutes without wanting to pull the trigger.

Awful awful.

Teenage muntant ninja turtes is allright i guess. I think with the major expetion of Samurai Jack and some of the newer super hero cartoon most action cartoons are pretty crap. I think mostly becuase hard to have action without violence. I suppose Samurai Jack is an eception there becuase they do it rather artisticlly as aposed to lazyly like in TMNT.

[NinjaJack]

.-snip-
Phew! For second I thought you actually watched new episodes.

[DarkKnight]

meh the turtles are waaay better. i never liked the power rangers, in fact i always hated them. i remember being in school around kindergarten when a lot of other kids liked the power rangers but i kept wearing my michelangelo t-shirt and tmnt shoes.

[NinjaJack]

But have you /met/ a turtle?

[JohnCrichton]

That's like comparing the X-Men to the Marvel Universe.

Power Rangers has an entire universe of heroes and villians in it that stretches over 15 years of continuity, places, battles, and plots.

TMNT... is one team with one long adventure, but that's it. Buck stops there. Not to mention PR has TMNT in their universe.

Power Ranger.

No contest.

[JohnCrichton]

Power Rangers has it's own charms and the first 3 seasons are the good kind of cheese for sure (like season 1 of TMNT 89) but honestly... PR has never been cool. TMNT at least started as a gritty black and white comic... I pitty the fool who takes PR seriously at all. It can be fun to watch but cool? Nah... and never will be.
People who have not seen Time Force, In Space, Lost Galaxy, and Forever Red say this.

Power Rangers can be very cool.

[Juu-kuchi]

TMNT... is one team with one long adventure, but that's it. Buck stops there. Not to mention PR has TMNT in their universe. I thought Peter Laird discredited anything related to Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles the Next Mutation as part of the main series canon. Ergo, their appearance in Power Rangers in Space is also included in that as well.

[JohnCrichton]

*shrugs*

PR dudn't really need 'em, so no real loss.

Still doesn't stop that the PR Universe does contain Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, even if they aren't Peter Lairds.

The crossover was kinda wack anyway, but Andros vs. Astronoma, Fall of Venture, Alex's Saga, the Final Battle for the Earth in Countdown to Destruction and seeing the Return of the Reds in Forever Red are enough to put 'em ever TMNT in my heart.

I grew up with 'em, so I know the Turtles are no punks, but I've sat through all the Ranger Series, the good with the bad, and it just has so much more lore, adventures, heroes, battles, villians and episodes than TMNT.

Just no contest.

[Ryoutarou]

TMNT's cartoons may or may not have been "cool". Season 1 of the old show was a fine animated series but past that it was indeed just fad. The new show is significantly better but the source material of TMNT was indeed "cool". It was some edgy satire of the current comic industry back in the 80's. So no matter if PR or Japanese sentai pushes kids entertainment further than TMNT does at some point TMNT will still have the Mirage comics which were anything but kids stuff.Not at all, for it's first 10-15 years, Sentai was classed as a TV drama, it had a late timeslot and very rarely was it aimed at children. That's what the older shows are listed as in the Sentai museum. It was only with the start of Megaranger/in Space that it was classed as kid's TV show.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

I thought it was always a kids show in Japan. Kids shows do air in prime time. Pokemon airs in prime time afterall.

TMNT does have a universe with aliens of numerous kinds, many distant worlds, many other comic stories tied in (Usagi, Planet Racers, and numerous others if you count the old comics). It doesn't have generations like Power Rangers but it does have an expansion and quite large universe.

NT TMNT were indeed part of the PR universe but Laird did sever those ties. I'll remember that fondly though... they may have been the bad guys in that sense but they whooped the PRs. Heh heh.

[Chad Bonin]

Technically, the Power Ranger universe also has ties to Dr. Who.

[the_fugitoid]

I like em both, yo.

Including the new TMNT (what I've seen anyways...)

[JohnCrichton]

Technically, the Power Ranger universe also has ties to Dr. Who.
'Splain.

[Wounded_Dragon]

TMNT does have a universe with aliens of numerous kinds, many distant worlds, many other comic stories tied in (Usagi, Planet Racers, and numerous others if you count the old comics). It doesn't have generations like Power Rangers but it does have an expansion and quite large universe.
Here's a new one for you Sketch...what makes Turtles so cool? Seriously, what beyond nostalgia makes the Turtles toons cooler than PR? I haven't seen one thing that makes Turtles cooler in this discussion.

Besides, giant robots will always equal cool in my book.

[NinjaJack]

Don`t ask me for details...

But I recall there being something about Zordon being a Time wizard and the Time Lords in Dr. Who.

[sdp]

I thought Peter Laird discredited anything related to Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles the Next Mutation as part of the main series canon. Ergo, their appearance in Power Rangers in Space is also included in that as well.
he meant canon of the other TMNT universes like the comic that is why they took all things related to her from their website, but come on are we to pretend NT:NM happened without Venus? ;)

[Brettfern]

Venus? ;)
I haven't thought of her for so long and now I remember the girl ninja turtle.

[Beat]

This is a hard one, but I'm going to go with the Turtles, for the simple reason that Megaranger did the "High school kids turned sentai team" concept better than any of the American Power Ranger shows. Turtles had the concepts right from the get go.

[Chad Bonin]

In Lost Galaxy, the space station Terra Venture (which appeared to have a fully-functional Tardis control, according to el Funaroverse) brought up the coordinates of a destroyed planet... the same coordinates that Gallifrey inhabited.


This is a hard one, but I'm going to go with the Turtles, for the simple reason that Megaranger did the "High school kids turned sentai team" concept better than any of the American Power Ranger shows. Turtles had the concepts right from the get go.Not a fan of DinoThunder's "three people who would never be friends end up having detention together, learning that their teacher is a Power Ranger (and thusly, they've been recruited), your principal's alter-ego is the main villain's general, and your substitute while your teacher is stuck in Ranger form is your main baddy"?

[Andrew T. Hingson]

Yeah... how is that cool again?

[NightwingAngelo]

but come on are we to pretend NT:NM happened without Venus? ;)
Venus... who? ;)

[Chad Bonin]

Yeah... how is that cool again?Dude, if your teacher wasn't "the oldest living Power Ranger, just the best" and by sheer virtue of sneaking in his basement and touching three gems, you got superpowers, wouldn't you find that rockin'?

And anyway, he was saying that Megaranger did the "School Sentai" concept the best. I'm proposing that DinoThunder did it the best for PR, and if he considered that in his comparison.

OH, and another Who connection. Supposedly, one of the Who non-televised things mentions "Zordon's people".

[Andrew T. Hingson]

Yeah it might be cool if it happened to me but since it happened to a bunch of fictional characters I have no attachment to (besides maybe Dr. Oliver himself) then it's not very cool to me.

[NinjaJack]

This was PR answer to Smallville, superheroes in a highschool setting. Of course if you hate Smallville you probably wouldn`t like DT much either.
And have you seen Fighting Spirit?

[Chad Bonin]

DinoThunder DOES go down in the PR history annals as having a number of incredibly cool/special episodes.

Day Of The Dino- The return of Tommy!
Legacy Of Power- 500th episode clip show revealing Tommy's history as a Power Ranger.
Lost And Found In Translation- The Rangers watch Abaranger DinoThunder, a show based on their exploits.
Thunder Storm- The first New Zealand team up, and easily the best.
Fighting Spirit- If you were ever a Tommy fan, THIS is the episode to watch.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

I'll give them points for creativity for sure especially after so many years but...

This is all stuff that only a hardcore PR fan would care about. I have a friend who likes MMPR but I told him Tommy was in Dino Thunder and he pretty much blew it off. Not everyone cares when an old character comes back. I thought it was a nice bit of nostalgia but cool? Nah... unless you really love PR and I'm just borederline.

Tell me something someone who has never seen PR would think is cool. As said in this thread Smallville does the teen super hero thing as well and it's a lot more mainstream friendly as it's not only more iconic but also less cheesey.

[PowerZord]

I'll give them points for creativity for sure especially after so many years but...

This is all stuff that only a hardcore PR fan would care about. I have a friend who likes MMPR but I told him Tommy was in Dino Thunder and he pretty much blew it off. Not everyone cares when an old character comes back. I thought it was a nice bit of nostalgia but cool? Nah... unless you really love PR and I'm just borederline.

Tell me something someone who has never seen PR would think is cool. As said in this thread Smallville does the teen super hero thing as well and it's a lot more mainstream friendly as it's not only more iconic but also less cheesey.

What's so cool about the turtles? I remenber all versions of them and none are as dark as you think.

[Beat]

I think both of you are overestimating the dramatic impact of your shows, and taking them way too seriously.

Look at the basic concept of Power Rangers. Kids in spandex fight monsters in rubber outfits. The concept itself is GOOFY. Sure, it's fun (as Megaranger proved), but it's hard to take the concept really seriously outside of the show's context.

Same thing with Turtles. It began life as a parody, and the elements still exist. Is it fun? Sure. But is it dark and uber-serious? Not really.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

Dark and uber-serious? Of course not. The Mirage comics are serious though. Serious and gritty. That's when TMNT was "cool". PR never had that "benefit" therefore it has never at least been "that cool" IMO. It's always been kid stuff and TMNT has a few versions that we're kid stuff (some which were awful BTW like Image's comics which were violent for the heck of being violent).

Neither have been uber serious but I'd easily give TMNT the edge because of those old comics at least and perhaps the first movie but even that's a stretch. But I'd say the new show runs circles around modern PR for nostalgia and quality... but that could just be me. But for the record I can see both TMNT and PR edged up for their more modern versions. More death and violence than they could have done in the earlier days of Saturday mornings. But I'd still give TMNT the edge... though that might just be because it's easier to swallow a silly concept when it isn't presented with people in costumes.

[Beat]

Few things are goofier than people in spandex suits-

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/4862/image47im.gif - That is one of them.

The animation, however, acts as a sort of buffer. People are more willing to accept things like anamorphic turtles when the entire universe isn't looking like ours.

[Chad Bonin]

Tell me something someone who has never seen PR would think is cool. As said in this thread Smallville does the teen super hero thing as well and it's a lot more mainstream friendly as it's not only more iconic but also less cheesey.I'm trying to think of that, actually, for Randomguy. He's agreed to watch one episode (since I read Fell), and I'm currently trying to whittle down the best episode. I'm thinking "Fight Against Fate" (That Poweranimals suggested) which involves Wes being knocked down from being Time Red, the death of Mr. Collins, Jen having to deal with her conflicting love between current Wes and former Alex, along with giant robot action.


Dark and uber-serious? Of course not. The Mirage comics are serious though. Serious and gritty. That's when TMNT was "cool". PR never had that "benefit" therefore it has never at least been "that cool" IMO. It's always been kid stuff and TMNT has a few versions that we're kid stuff (some which were awful BTW like Image's comics which were violent for the heck of being violent).I'll throw this out there. Since you consider the TMNT comics as part of this argument, the Power Ranger side should be able to count Super Sentai. OR... we just count the TMNT cartoons versus the Power Rangers show (nobody's mentioned the failed PR comics or box-office bomb movies).

(although, you can probably argue that something like Zyuranger through Dekaranger exist in the PR-verse, but we have no idea how long Japan has been creating series based on the exploits of the "world famous Power Rangers". We at least know they created Abaranger DinoThunder)

[ryuuseipro]

As a big fan of Japanese superheroes, I detest Power Rangers for messing up not only (Super) Sentai, but the reputation of all Japanese superheroes, having Americans think that all Japanese superhero TV programs are stupid.

While I like Ninja Turtles very much (I love the original comics and like the new animated series), I absolutely love Japanese superheroes, especially the "tokusatsu" (live-action special effects movies & shows) kind. Ultraman, Kamen (Masked) Rider, Kikaider, Inazuman, Super Sentai, etc. There are hundreds of these guys, and they predated the Ninja Turtles for decades. And I just mentioned some of my favorites.

So people say that Power Rangers, or just about any Japanese superhero show is "cheesy," "corny" or "stupid." Ironically, tokusatsu superhero shows are doing exactly what American live-action comic-book adaptations WISH they could do! Colorful superheroes fighting against colorful supervillains in various ways! Depends on which kind of superhero subgenre you watch (with Ultraman and giant heroes, you have giant silver guys wrestling Godzilla-like monsters and evil aliens of the week; With Masked Rider and Henshin Heroes, you have some posing, transforming cyborg using karate to waste henchmen and the mutant monster of the week; The Super Sentai Series, the first two of which were created by Masked Rider creator Shoutarou Ishinomori, is an offshoot of the Henshin Hero, but a team variation that uses weapons, vehicles, and a giant robot). Also, here's a kicker: People DIE!!! Many of these shows have an expendable character killed by the monster of the week, for example. :D

Usually, American live-action superhero movies & shows have to be so "dark," "realistic," and "cynical," and waters down everything about its source material, because they're so ashamed of it. If it's for kids, stuff like Power Rangers talks down to its audience.

I have not watched Power Rangers in years, because I cannot live with the pain of seeing a Japanese superhero show be bowdlerized like this. What happened to the days of just dubbing the show and just cutting out minor offending footage? Would anime fans like it if some company took, say, the latest Gundam series or some other super-robot show, and replace all the footage of anime-looking humans with badly-animated fugitives from Captain Planet? I don't think so. ;)

Personally, my favorite Super Sentai series is 1983's Science Task Force Dynaman (which was shown in comically dubbed form on USA's Night Flight in 1987). I loved the Night Flight version! Anyone here remember that?

Even the animated Teen Titans series has some Super Sentai influence (even Gatchaman, which helped to inspire Super Sentai)! And not just in the T-Robo, either. I wouldn't be surprised if any of the writers were familiar with the genre. :D

[PowerZord]

As a big fan of Japanese superheroes, I detest Power Rangers for messing up not only (Super) Sentai, but the reputation of all Japanese superheroes, having Americans think that all Japanese superhero TV programs are stupid.

While I like Ninja Turtles very much (I love the original comics and like the new animated series), I absolutely love Japanese superheroes, especially the "tokusatsu" (live-action special effects movies & shows) kind. Ultraman, Kamen (Masked) Rider, Kikaider, Inazuman, Super Sentai, etc. There are hundreds of these guys, and they predated the Ninja Turtles for decades. And I just mentioned some of my favorites.

So people say that Power Rangers, or just about any Japanese superhero show is "cheesy," "corny" or "stupid." Ironically, tokusatsu superhero shows are doing exactly what American live-action comic-book adaptations WISH they could do! Colorful superheroes fighting against colorful supervillains in various ways! Depends on which kind of superhero subgenre you watch (with Ultraman and giant heroes, you have giant silver guys wrestling Godzilla-like monsters and evil aliens of the week; With Masked Rider and Henshin Heroes, you have some posing, transforming cyborg using karate to waste henchmen and the mutant monster of the week; The Super Sentai Series, the first two of which were created by Masked Rider creator Shoutarou Ishinomori, is an offshoot of the Henshin Hero, but a team variation that uses weapons, vehicles, and a giant robot). Also, here's a kicker: People DIE!!! Many of these shows have an expendable character killed by the monster of the week, for example. :D

Usually, American live-action superhero movies & shows have to be so "dark," "realistic," and "cynical," and waters down everything about its source material, because they're so ashamed of it. If it's for kids, stuff like Power Rangers talks down to its audience.

I have not watched Power Rangers in years, because I cannot live with the pain of seeing a Japanese superhero show be bowdlerized like this. What happened to the days of just dubbing the show and just cutting out minor offending footage? Would anime fans like it if some company took, say, the latest Gundam series or some other super-robot show, and replace all the footage of anime-looking humans with badly-animated fugitives from Captain Planet? I don't think so. ;)

Personally, my favorite Super Sentai series is 1983's Science Task Force Dynaman (which was shown in comically dubbed form on USA's Night Flight in 1987). I loved the Night Flight version! Anyone here remember that?

Even the animated Teen Titans series has some Super Sentai influence (even Gatchaman, which helped to inspire Super Sentai)! And not just in the T-Robo, either. I wouldn't be surprised if any of the writers were familiar with the genre. :D

Power rangers messing up with sentai? It's business, good business for TOEI. Blame TOEI, not the Americans. You like better because people die? That's kinda of stupid. Besides Sentai also has cheesy and Goofy stuff, Have you seen Carranger or Megaranger. Or Magiranger for that effect. Most super sentai after Carranger were less Serious if you compare them with Goranger and J.A.K.Q and if you know, J.A.K.Q failed even with the introduction of Big One(Which in fame would be the equal of Tommy oliver) The Dynaman parody? I'm too young for had watch it's original airing, but I did find an Encode and it was so unfunny and so Horribly boring, You hate Power rangers, but yet you liked the horrible Dynaman Parody. It has been mentioned before that Super sentai is the softest of the Toku Genre. Sazer-X isn't that Serious at all, it's even horrible. I'm sure you must hate as well the introduction of the Red SPD ranger Battlelizer as well on Magi vs Deka which comes out on DVD this March. Badly fugitives from Captn Planet? You must not have seen WF or TF. Or at least In space or LG.

Even if people din't know about PR, and watched Super sentai they would still find it silly, people fighting in costumes and we gotta remenber that both versions are aimed at children.

[Chad Bonin]

Power Rangers, at this point, is a fully New Zealand series that just happens to use footage from Japanese shows to save budget.

And soon, they're just gonna merge resources and film two shows in New Zealand at the same time, Super Sentai and Power Rangers.

[JohnCrichton]

Behold, ToonZone... the Power Ranger/Sentai Wars and what I deal with on my board all the time.

BUT.... my place is different. Instead of warring and hating, my place is neutral territory for both fans to enjoy their shows.

I for one am also a fan of Japanese Live-Action, like ryuuseipro up there, but unlike him and those kinda fans, my enjoyment of Power Rangers is a seperate thing as much as it is a seperate show.

I've seen PR suck in my opinion, and I've seen Japanese Live-Action suck. To like one does not mean you need hate another, much like a Transformer fan who likes the original and Beast Wars need not hate TF Victory or its other Japanese incarnations.


Usually, American live-action superhero movies & shows have to be so "dark," "realistic," and "cynical," and waters down everything about its source material, because they're so ashamed of it. If it's for kids, stuff like Power Rangers talks down to its audience.
Power Rangers hasn't talked down to its audience in about... ten years or so. Not since Turbo. Since Space PR's made a turn for live-action fantasy sci-fi. While it doesn't always hit its mark, Time Force and Lost Galaxy hardly talked down to its audience, but served as an exmaple of while live action television can be for kids.



Personally, my favorite Super Sentai series is 1983's Science Task Force Dynaman (which was shown in comically dubbed form on USA's Night Flight in 1987). I loved the Night Flight version! Anyone here remember that?
I remember it and I thought it was awesome. But it's a misperception to call Power Rangers "badly dubbed Sentai" when it's pretty much a different show. I hybrid of source material, but it's got new and different characters, plots and villians.

Astronma, Trakeena, and Frax were hardly low tier Captain Planet villians.

I'm just saying there's room on this planet for two series and it's possible to sit back, relax and enjoy both, rather than make a decision on something's overall quality by merely regarding a brand name and the country that produces it.

[ryuuseipro]

Power rangers messing up with sentai? It's business, good business for TOEI. Blame TOEI, not the Americans.
I never said Toei was not to blame. They were pitching this stuff to Saban (and Saban to other networks), and in 1993, Americans just couldn't accept Japanese actors, especially because of the economic war between the US and Japan at the time.

But I'm personally very relieved to hear that Disney/Village Roadshow no longer has the rights to Masked Rider Black RX or any Masked Rider program (they can't even show the Power Rangers episodes that guest-starred Black RX). I heard that Shoutarou Ishinomori was very furious with the shows.


You like better because people die? That's kinda of stupid.
No, because even the most silliest Super Sentai had some really challenging stories. I prefer the older serious stuff myself.

Because "people die?" Just that!? That's even more stupid than you claim. More as we go on.


Besides Sentai also has cheesy and Goofy stuff, Have you seen Carranger or Megaranger. Or Magiranger for that effect. Most super sentai after Carranger were less Serious if you compare them with Goranger and J.A.K.Q and if you know, J.A.K.Q failed even with the introduction of Big One(Which in fame would be the equal of Tommy oliver)
Actually, Maskman X from Maskman has that honor. Big One was a permanent addition.

I know that even the most serious shows had some goofy stuff, but that doesn't bother me. I always found it amusing. More so than when the shows progressively excelled at that since Turboranger.


The Dynaman parody? I'm too young for had watch it's original airing, but I did find an Encode and it was so unfunny and so Horribly boring, You hate Power rangers, but yet you liked the horrible Dynaman Parody.
While I don't take it for granted that Dynaman was not treated with much respect, I'd much rather watch a dubbed series than an Americanized one. Which is why Ultraman Tiga, as butchered as that was, was still my favorite show over Power Rangers. I'm glad Tsuburaya Productions turned down Saban, because they knew Ultraman had American fans. Ultraman's pretty much laying low in America right now because of Tsuburaya's current legal battle against the Thailand-based Chaiyo Productions, which is still going on. That resulted in an Ultra-shutdown of sorts here in America, as Tsuburaya will not bring the shows here until everything's settled.


It has been mentioned before that Super sentai is the softest of the Toku Genre. Sazer-X isn't that Serious at all, it's even horrible.
Actually, I've been very impressed with Toho's Chouseishin Series, more so than any of Toei's newer shows. As I understand it, Lion's Gate has the rights to Gransazer, which they promise to show intact!

No, I'm not bothered by the silly stuff in Sazer X, as it works. What would they have done if this were an anime series? Not much different, I guess.

And don't limit the "toku genre" to just superheroes. (Because I'm sure you know what "tokusatsu" means.) Monster movies, or "daikaiju" as you prefer, have actually gotten better! I'm sure you might hate the upcoming Gamera movie to pieces, as you'll accuse it of being "soft." (It's a kids' movie, after all.) But I'm one of the few fans who really enjoyed Godzilla Final Wars (which many Godzilla fans hated). There's also the CGI-animated 25-minute film Negadon, the Monster from Mars, which looks absolutely incredible! That movie was a paean to the Golden Age of tokusatsu in the Showa era.

Just to let you know, Godzilla is my favorite tokusatsu genre, not to mention my all-time favorite character. I never watched Godzilla movies just because "people die." Ever. The stories were usually compelling. And I loved the Japanese actors in all the movies. I think it's rather dumb to think that all Godzilla movies should have Raymond Burr in them (even though I like Raymond Burr) just because nobody wants an all-Japanese cast. Leave well enough alone.


I'm sure you must hate as well the introduction of the Red SPD ranger Battlelizer as well on Magi vs Deka which comes out on DVD this March.
Like I said, I don't care for the newer Super Sentai as much (even though I have nice things to say about them). But I'm not going to get my briefs in a knot over this Battleizer-whatever thingy. Big deal.


Badly fugitives from Captn Planet? You must not have seen WF or TF. Or at least In space or LG.
"Badly fugitives"? Am I missing something?

And like I said, I have not watched any new PR shows in years. Sorry.


Even if people din't know about PR, and watched Super sentai they would still find it silly, people fighting in costumes and we gotta remenber that both versions are aimed at children.
I could care less about what Americans think. Besides, the MSM already likes to bash Godzilla movies as it is! I mean, they gotta' find some way to take it out on the Japanese, right?

Americans have become overly sensitive with violence since the early 70s, which is why nothing after Spectreman (ironically the first superhero show of the 70s) made it to the US. They were rare. Yet Hawaii sees these shows with absolutely no problem. Kikaider (which is a thinking-man's superhero show) is a masterpiece there, as is Masked Rider V3.

I have even more contempt with the cynical "realistic" people (especially fans of American superheroes/sci-fi), who will tear apart the Japanese model for being "campy, cheesy and unrealistic" while somehow praising the American model, at least today (I'm still a big fan of Adam West's Batman, BTW, and fans HATED that show). They think all superheroes should be just like Batman. They want all their superheroes to be grim & ironic, and as "adult" as humanly possible (ironically, many of these gaudy Japanese superheroes, which are indeed for kids, have had "grim & ironic" long before American ones caught on; I thought they'd be impressed with this!), yet don't understand that THEY were for kids, too! Superheroes, in general, are children's fantasies, which is why anyone would tear them apart.

Overall, you are a Power Rangers fan, and I'm sorry my comments offended you. But remember that I've been into the tokusatsu game for a long time. I'm 30 now, and have been watching Japanese sci-fi for pretty much my whole life, catching it on TV whenever I can (and then we had VCRs, so we could record them)! It wasn't until the start of 1991, when I discovered tokusatsu fandom, thanks to reading the first issue of Markalite magazine! My life was never the same since. Since then, I was hunting down any Japanese live-action fantasy, from Godzilla to Ultraman to Masked Rider . . . anything.

[John Pannozzi]

But I'm one of the few fans who really enjoyed Godzilla Final Wars (which many Godzilla fans hated).
I just wanna say that I just didn't like Godzilla: Final Wars. We should have listened to Megaloman when he said "a remake (of Destroy All Monsters) would most likely suck". I didn't like that King Seesar was bad guy (which is kinda like making Jesus Christ a bad guy, remember that King Seesar is based on the Shiisaa, an Okiwian (SP) god/guardian). I didn't like that they made Angilas a mean and ugly bad guy as a opposed to a cute and lovable friend or natural enemy of Godzilla. I didn't like that the Shobijin were only in it for a very brief amount of time. And finally, the film felt more like Kill Bill or the Matrix then a good old DaiKaiju film. But enough whining.

To ryuuseipro: What do you think of the old TMNT cartoon (the one that was produced by Fred Wolf)?

Personally, I love the Turtles. As for the Rangers, I've seen some Super Sentai (Abaranger, to be specific), and when compared to Power Rangers, I think Americans should stop trying to do Japanese comedy. The Power Rangers shows try to do the Japanese-type comedy seen in the Super Sentai series, and the American attempts are usually painful. But the Rangers aren't totally worthless. From Power Rangers in Space (which primered in 1998) to the current Rangers series, I think the Power Rangers for the most part do a fairly good job of mixing seriousness and cheesy humor.

[ryuuseipro]

Behold, ToonZone... the Power Ranger/Sentai Wars and what I deal with on my board all the time.
LOL! Sorry you had to put up with stuff like this.


BUT.... my place is different. Instead of warring and hating, my place is neutral territory for both fans to enjoy their shows.
True.


I for one am also a fan of Japanese Live-Action, like ryuuseipro up there, but unlike him and those kinda fans, my enjoyment of Power Rangers is a seperate thing as much as it is a seperate show.
Glad you see it that way. I just don't want this kind of thing to happen to Godzilla, Ultraman or anything like that. Saban already ruined Masked (Kamen) Rider, and thankfully, that's long forgotten now.


I've seen PR suck in my opinion, and I've seen Japanese Live-Action suck. To like one does not mean you need hate another, much like a Transformer fan who likes the original and Beast Wars need not hate TF Victory or its other Japanese incarnations.
Although I do like, say, the American version of King Kong Vs. Godzilla, I always prefer the Japanese version. It just had that Toho magic that was missing in the US version (including Akira Ifukube's music). So you can understand my opinion.


Power Rangers hasn't talked down to its audience in about... ten years or so. Not since Turbo. Since Space PR's made a turn for live-action fantasy sci-fi. While it doesn't always hit its mark, Time Force and Lost Galaxy hardly talked down to its audience, but served as an exmaple of while live action television can be for kids.
Yeah, I know that Power Rangers has become more serious since In Space. (I haven't seen much after Lost Galaxy, since I kinda liked Gingaman) But I'm still messed up on it.


I remember it and I thought it was awesome. But it's a misperception to call Power Rangers "badly dubbed Sentai" when it's pretty much a different show. I hybrid of source material, but it's got new and different characters, plots and villians.
True, I'll admit that Power Rangers has been following the Super Sentai formula more closely. But my greatest pain is that all Japanese superheroes, even Ultraman, are called Power Rangers by non-fans, because they think he looks stupid or something like that. But they'll watch Superman, Batman and Spider-Man with no problem? How would they like it if I called Batman "Superman"?


Astronma, Trakeena, and Frax were hardly low tier Captain Planet villians.
Yeah, but I was really appalled with Anubis Kruger. Doggie Kruger was the best character on Dekaranger, IMHO (especially since I'm a dog lover). He was graceful and handsome. Anubis was ugly and slimy. So they think kids won't like a blue & white anthropomorphic dog?

It's like the Japanese Godzilla vs. the American Godzilla (or GINO, Godzilla In Name Only, as I like to call it).


I'm just saying there's room on this planet for two series and it's possible to sit back, relax and enjoy both, rather than make a decision on something's overall quality by merely regarding a brand name and the country that produces it.
You've given me a little something to think about. I still hate PR, especially for shunning out the rest of the Japanese superhero genre. But it's a start.

[Brettfern]

I still hate PRSo do I. Though one of my friends still watches it along with Pokemon..

[ryuuseipro]

I just wanna say that I just didn't like Godzilla: Final Wars. We should have listened to Megaloman when he said "a remake (of Destroy All Monsters) would most likely suck". I didn't like that King Seesar was bad guy (which is kinda like making Jesus Christ a bad guy, remember that King Seesar is based on the Shiisaa, an Okiwian (SP) god/guardian). I didn't like that they made Angilas a mean and ugly bad guy as a opposed to a cute and lovable friend or natural enemy of Godzilla. I didn't like that the Shobijin were only in it for a very brief amount of time. And finally, the film felt more like Kill Bill or the Matrix then a good old DaiKaiju film. But enough whining.
Wow, does Dave McRobie post here? :)

Anyway, I think I liked the sci-fi/action aspect of it, and how Godzilla actually did things. But I can understand your criticisms.

I know that King Shisa was based on the Okinawan shisa (and is one of my favorite monsters). But I'm just glad that he, Angilas and Rodan were spared, as they're my favorite monsters besides Godzilla. I can understand that fans wanted all the other monsters to join Godzilla to stop this threat, but I guess Kitamura wanted to show Godzilla as a powerhouse.


To ryuuseipro: What do you think of the old TMNT cartoon (the one that was produced by Fred Wolf)?
I liked the old cartoon, and still have kind of a soft spot for it. Compared to the comic (or the new series), it's child's play. But I definitely prefer it over Saban's own series. That was the worst Ninja Turtles-anything.


Personally, I love the Turtles. As for the Rangers, I've seen some Super Sentai (Abaranger, to be specific), and when compared to Power Rangers, I think Americans should stop trying to do Japanese comedy. The Power Rangers shows try to do the Japanese-type comedy seen in the Super Sentai series, and the American attempts are usually painful. But the Rangers aren't totally worthless. From Power Rangers in Space (which primered in 1998) to the current Rangers series, I think the Power Rangers for the most part do a fairly good job of mixing seriousness and cheesy humor.
You're right at that. I was somewhat impressed with the serious route that PR took.

But I can see comic-book fans and anime fans being impressed with Ultraman the Next or Masked Rider the First. What I saw of Next is absolutely mind-blowing. First is a remake of the original Masked Rider series (Japan's answer to Spider-Man), and this is the first time that has ever been tried!

[ryuuseipro]

So do I. Though one of my friends still watches it along with Pokemon.. But do you hate it for the right reasons? :)

But seriously, I'm a fan of Japanese superheroes. I just hate it because it's the first Japanese superhero since Ultraman to have exposure in the US, but radically altered from its original form, and that when people see Japanese superheroes (and I mean ANY Japanese superhero), they say, "Oh, that stupid Power Rangers thing" or "That's a ripoff of Power Rangers!" Even Japan's two greatest model superheroes, Ultraman and Kamen (Masked) Rider (the latter offshot the Henshin Hero genre, and in turn, the Super Sentai Series). To the point where even American superheroes like Spider-Man get called "Power Rangers," because they're faithful to the original source material!

[Beat]

Ah, PR/Sentai wars, basically the equivalent of a son arguing with his dad. "No, I did this better! I did this better!"

As it stands in America, the Rangers, for better or worse have permantely altered the way America will look at just about any production with people in costumes that doesn't star a giant monster. (Which I believe is going to be Toho's stragety for the Sazer shows- Power Rangers meets Godzilla). It is impossible to market any tokuastu show without Saban's big ugly kiddified stain on them. Have the Rangers come up with new ideas? Yeah? Are they still the immature cousin of tokuastu? Hell yes. I'm just glad Saban's other takes on tokuastu (VR Troopers- AKA I can't believe it's not a Metal Hero, Beetleborgs, the only Saban show to get Jay Leno mad, and Mystic Knights of Tir Ra Nog, a show so bad that I won't even bother discussing it) didn't catch on.


I remember it and I thought it was awesome. But it's a misperception to call Power Rangers "badly dubbed Sentai" when it's pretty much a different show. I hybrid of source material, but it's got new and different characters, plots and villians. That doesn't automatically make it good. Take SPD and Dekaranger. Dekaranger was pretty much NYPD Blue with spandex. And that's fine, since it was a lot of fun to watch. SPD, on the other hand, tried to weld together a standard Ranger plot, and the fans reaction, well...I'll sum it up in a picture.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/GigasBowzaV/sam.bmp


Where do I stand on this? Simple. Sentai is more fun. It knows what it wants from the show and the crowd, unlike Power Rangers, which either overestimates (Turbo, let's make a serious show out of a sentai parody!) or underestimates (Dino Thunder- All hail the return of Jeebus Tommy Oliver!) its potential on a crowd, not to mention the limits imposed on it are greater than those imposed on sentai.

Not to say PR doesn't have the occasional flash of brilliance, but for the most part, I like my costumed men the way I like my giant monster movies, Japanese and full of explosions.

This is probably where the Turtles biggest advantage is clear. They've NEVER had this identity crisis, or anything even on a remotely similiar scale.

[Ryoutarou]

But I can see comic-book fans and anime fans being impressed with Ultraman the Next or Masked Rider the First. What I saw of Next is absolutely mind-blowing. First is a remake of the original Masked Rider series (Japan's answer to Spider-Man), and this is the first time that has ever been tried!First of all, Japan's answer to Spider-Man is oddly enough...Spider-Man. They had their own Toku Spider-Man, they subbed the movies over there, Kamen Rider is it's own thing.

Sentai these days more or less blows. Dekaranger was a poor excuse for a good concept. The actors sucked, Ban, I won't even get into how much screaming he did. Sentai hasn't been GREAT since Go Go V. Abaranger was the last real good Sentai. When it did goofy, it was really goofy, when it did serious, it was really serious. Sentai these days is dull, the action is nowhere near what it use to be, the stories aren't pulled off as good as they are, and for the most, the music is lackluster.

Power Rangers is as well, S.P.D. fell apart during after Dismissed, but that's in large part thanks to Disney and them stepping up their efforts for stand alone stories. Dino Thunder was a mass of filler suffered from not having it's star there for most of the series. Yeah, Power Rangers really screwed over the Japanese super hero genre, I wouldn't say the American area because we all know those movies are huge. Ultraman failing in the US has no one to blame but Tsuburaya. They're the ones that didn't want a Power Ranger like take on the show. They wanted it dubbed, not adapted and it failed big time.

I don't like how everyone in suits that fights is tainted as something from a kid's show. But let's face it, it more or less is. Justirisers, Sazer X, Magiranger, Dekaranger, those are all kid's shows. Ultraman Nexus, I don't consider a kid's show, it just got the bad end of the stick with being stuck on an early Saturday morning slot in Japan. It's annoying having friends who pick the shows off as kiddy just because they're in suits, but the genre has mostly been a children's genre for almost ten years.

As for Power Rangers and Sentai filming as one, it's not going to happen. The Magiranger that was filmed in New Zealand, I don't know why people play it up to more than it is. It was just the opening, nothing more, no scenes were used in any episodes, it was just the opening.

[Beat]

But sentai and Power Rangers still form a brand mentality. Even if they stink, they're still entrenched deep enough in the public conscious that any challengers will be seen as mere wannabees, ie, the Sazer shows.

And this is coming from someone trying to show their Power Ranger loving 6 year old cousin Gransazer and Justriders.

[ryuuseipro]

First of all, Japan's answer to Spider-Man is oddly enough...Spider-Man. They had their own Toku Spider-Man, they subbed the movies over there, Kamen Rider is it's own thing. So Ultraman is not Japan's answer to Superman/Green Lantern!? Oh, COME ON!!! Kamen Rider is indeed Japan's answer to Spider-Man, because both are insect heroes and both have inner tragedies (only Spidey was a sort of mutant, and KR is a cyborg)! Just because Toei made their own Spidey doesn't cancel things out (because Toei's Spidey imitated Kamen Rider in some respects).

I happen to love equivalents! Moonlight Mask (Gekkou Kamen) is Japan's answer to the Lone Ranger and Batman, for example. And before Ultraman, an early Japanese answer to Superman was Super Giant/Starman!


Yeah, Power Rangers really screwed over the Japanese super hero genre, I wouldn't say the American area because we all know those movies are huge. Ultraman failing in the US has no one to blame but Tsuburaya. They're the ones that didn't want a Power Ranger like take on the show. They wanted it dubbed, not adapted and it failed big time. Excuse me, Tsuburaya doesn't HAVE to adapt Ultraman! They know there is a following in the US, as North America is one of the big markets for Ultraman there. And besides, the original series did greatly and it didn't need an adaptation. Just like Godzilla, Ultraman is and has always been recognized here a Japanese culture icon. Sorry, I can't let that pass.

Tiga "failed" because it was butchered. Also from the interruption by the return of the Ninja Turtles (which 4Kids seemed more interested in). But it's also laying low now because of the Chaiyo thing, which leaked around that same time.

BTW, there have been TONS of offers from other companies to bring the shows to the US on DVD (so yes, there IS a market for Ultraman in the US), but Tsuburaya cannot do that yet!!! When they win that court battle against Chaiyo, THEN we'll start seeing more Ultraman here.


I don't like how everyone in suits that fights is tainted as something from a kid's show. But let's face it, it more or less is. Justirisers, Sazer X, Magiranger, Dekaranger, those are all kid's shows. Ultraman Nexus, I don't consider a kid's show, it just got the bad end of the stick with being stuck on an early Saturday morning slot in Japan. It's annoying having friends who pick the shows off as kiddy just because they're in suits, but the genre has mostly been a children's genre for almost ten years. When did I say that these were not kids shows? They were kids' shows from the get-go! All the way back to when Japanese superheroes were ever invented. Even the 70s shows never insulted kids' intelligence. That's what most American shows did. They think children are stupid, so they talk down to them or shove mediocrity down their throat.

Kids shows don't have to have superheroes, but they don't have to treat kids like they're stupid. For example, Sesame Street, under Jim Henson, treated children like intelligent beings, but now, it's a hollow ghost of its former self. It talks down to its target audience. Elmo's World goes without saying.

BTW, The Incredibles is quite possibly my favorite superhero movie ever (right next to The Super Inframan). Pixar made a very intelligent and entertaining movie that never insulted its audience (especially kids)! And it speaks my language! And parents got their panties in a knot over it having violence and action and stuff! (That's the mentality that got PR where it is now) I don't care what they think.

I completely gave up on Power Rangers and any more Super Sentai. I haven't watched much of any of the new shows (or even any of the new Kamen Rider shows). I'm not going to spoil PR fans' enjoyment of the show. If they love the show, that's fine. But there's nothing they can do to convince me otherwise. And they'll never convince me that all other Japanese superhero shows must succeed by taking the PR route. Shows like Ultraman, Space Giants, Johnny Sokko and his Flying Robot and Spectreman never needed that. Sorry, I just cannot let that pass.

And that's my 2 cents.

[Ryoutarou]

So Ultraman is not Japan's answer to Superman/Green Lantern!? Oh, COME ON!!! Kamen Rider is indeed Japan's answer to Spider-Man, because both are insect heroes and both have inner tragedies (only Spidey was a sort of mutant, and KR is a cyborg)! Just because Toei made their own Spidey doesn't cancel things out (because Toei's Spidey imitated Kamen Rider in some respects).It's just another aspect of it, I'm only saying that because Spider-Man does have a fairly large following in Japan. The old TV show did, the movies do, even the games. Kamen Rider is something different alltogether aside from the insect hero aspect of it.


Excuse me, Tsuburaya doesn't HAVE to adapt Ultraman! They know there is a following in the US, as North America is one of the big markets for Ultraman there. And besides, the original series did greatly and it didn't need an adaptation. Just like Godzilla, Ultraman is and has always been recognized here a Japanese culture icon. Sorry, I can't let that pass.I never said they did. I said it's the way they wanted it.


Tiga "failed" because it was butchered. Also from the interruption by the return of the Ninja Turtles (which 4Kids seemed more interested in). But it's also laying low now because of the Chaiyo thing, which leaked around that same time.

BTW, there have been TONS of offers from other companies to bring the shows to the US on DVD (so yes, there IS a market for Ultraman in the US), but Tsuburaya cannot do that yet!!! When they win that court battle against Chaiyo, THEN we'll start seeing more Ultraman here.
That butchering is what Tsuburaya wanted. They saw it before it aired and gave their approval to it. It obviously says the thought that the show would do well in that format, which of course it did not. As for the Ultraman market in the US, I never saw a huge one. We got the entire Tiga series uncut in four different DVD boxsets, and from what I can recall, even those never sold well.

[kaine23]

I say one thing Knux you've done your homework but I'm still not convinced.Knux knows his PR.

[ryuuseipro]

That butchering is what Tsuburaya wanted. They saw it before it aired and gave their approval to it. It obviously says the thought that the show would do well in that format, which of course it did not.
To be fair, there were some good things about the US version, but all in all, it could've been done better. A lot better.


As for the Ultraman market in the US, I never saw a huge one. We got the entire Tiga series uncut in four different DVD boxsets, and from what I can recall, even those never sold well.
No. This is not relegated to Tiga. (And 4Kids/Funimation seemed to not really show any interest; I wouldn't be surprised if they hopefully relinquish the rights back to Tsuburaya.) I'm talking about the older shows. You never saw a market for Ultraman, and not even now, because Tsuburaya is keeping it under wraps until their court battle against Chaiyo is settled. So until they win, you won't see Ultraman in the US. You understand why, right? Right?

Incidentally, there are some fans who were whining that the original Ultraman show still isn't being seen in the US! Tiga probably wouldn't do well without the original show around, it seems.

[Chad Bonin]

Is everyone forgetting Tim Curry's greatest role, the voice of Kilokhan on... Superhuman Samurai Syber-Squad?

Oh, wait, Syber-Squad WASN'T based of Ultraman... it just looked a heck of a lot like it.

Americans have become overly sensitive with violence since the early 70s, which is why nothing after Spectreman (ironically the first superhero show of the 70s) made it to the US. They were rare. Yet Hawaii sees these shows with absolutely no problem. Kikaider (which is a thinking-man's superhero show) is a masterpiece there, as is Masked Rider V3.Kikaider did get a run on Adult Swim (well, the animated version), and it didn't get any real praise in America (very few reruns).

And technically, Hawaii = US. Just not continental.

Actually, Maskman X from Maskman has that honor. Big One was a permanent addition.And so was Tommy, once he became the White Ranger, the official leader of MMPR from that point (and then the Zeo teams, and half of Turbo. And then mentor to the DTs). Now, admittedly, Tommy's leadership of the MMPRs came about purely due to cast problems...


Yeah, but I was really appalled with Anubis Kruger. Doggie Kruger was the best character on Dekaranger, IMHO (especially since I'm a dog lover). He was graceful and handsome. Anubis was ugly and slimy. So they think kids won't like a blue & white anthropomorphic dog?Watching both Deka and SPD, Anubis was a much better version of the character, by sheer fact he didn't look horrible. DekaDoggie's mouth never moved right, and he didn't really have much motivation. SPDoggie's mouth worked right (how was he slimy?), and he had a major drive and characterization (SPDoggie = Total jerk. But only because he wants the best from his Rangers, and he was thought to lose his wife. But he occassionally kicked out an awesome "GET OFF MY TRUCK!".)

[ryuuseipro]

Ahhh, here we go . . .


Is everyone forgetting Tim Curry's greatest role, the voice of Kilokhan on... Superhuman Samurai Syber-Squad?

Oh, wait, Syber-Squad WASN'T based of Ultraman... it just looked a heck of a lot like it.
No, SSSS was based on 1993's Lightning Superman Gridman, which was, up until recently (their new series BioPlanet WOO aired just recently), Tsuburaya's last non-Ultra superhero. But if Gridman looks like Ultraman, then that's because it's a Tsuburaya trademark (aside from the energy timer warning light, in imitation of Ultraman's ColorTimer).


Kikaider did get a run on Adult Swim (well, the animated version), and it didn't get any real praise in America (very few reruns).

And technically, Hawaii = US. Just not continental.
NO NO NO NO NO!!!!! I mean this Kikaider:

http://www.generationkikaida.com

To quote Bugs Bunny: "Does dis' ansa' your question?" ;)


Watching both Deka and SPD, Anubis was a much better version of the character, by sheer fact he didn't look horrible. DekaDoggie's mouth never moved right, and he didn't really have much motivation. SPDoggie's mouth worked right (how was he slimy?), and he had a major drive and characterization (SPDoggie = Total jerk. But only because he wants the best from his Rangers, and he was thought to lose his wife. But he occassionally kicked out an awesome "GET OFF MY TRUCK!".)
Oh, come on! At least Doggie Kruger looked like a dog! Never bothered me that the mouth didn't move right, as long as it looks good. Anubis looks like Doggie got hit by gamma radiation and is about to turn into the Hulk.

[Chad Bonin]

NO NO NO NO NO!!!!! I mean this Kikaider:

http://www.generationkikaida.com (http://www.generationkikaida.com/)

To quote Bugs Bunny: "Does dis' ansa' your question?" ;)Yes, I did note that. Hence the "well, the animated" part.

Oh, come on! At least Doggie Kruger looked like a dog! Never bothered me that the mouth didn't move right, as long as it looks good. Anubis looks like Doggie got hit by gamma radiation and is about to turn into the Hulk.Well, that's it. Anubis wasn't a dog. He was a Sirian. Heck, "Doggie" was just his nickname, due to his, well, appearance similar to an Earth dog. They make no qualms about him looking monstrous, the DinoThunder Rangers see him and get in a fighting stance before knowing he's the kickin' Commander Anubis "Doggie" Crugger.

And if we're comparing sentai equivalents... give me the award-winning Michelle Langstone as Dr. Kat anyday over Dr. Swan.

[PowerZord]

First of all, Japan's answer to Spider-Man is oddly enough...Spider-Man. They had their own Toku Spider-Man, they subbed the movies over there, Kamen Rider is it's own thing.

Sentai these days more or less blows. Dekaranger was a poor excuse for a good concept. The actors sucked, Ban, I won't even get into how much screaming he did. Sentai hasn't been GREAT since Go Go V. Abaranger was the last real good Sentai. When it did goofy, it was really goofy, when it did serious, it was really serious. Sentai these days is dull, the action is nowhere near what it use to be, the stories aren't pulled off as good as they are, and for the most, the music is lackluster.

Power Rangers is as well, S.P.D. fell apart during after Dismissed, but that's in large part thanks to Disney and them stepping up their efforts for stand alone stories. Dino Thunder was a mass of filler suffered from not having it's star there for most of the series. Yeah, Power Rangers really screwed over the Japanese super hero genre, I wouldn't say the American area because we all know those movies are huge. Ultraman failing in the US has no one to blame but Tsuburaya. They're the ones that didn't want a Power Ranger like take on the show. They wanted it dubbed, not adapted and it failed big time.

I don't like how everyone in suits that fights is tainted as something from a kid's show. But let's face it, it more or less is. Justirisers, Sazer X, Magiranger, Dekaranger, those are all kid's shows. Ultraman Nexus, I don't consider a kid's show, it just got the bad end of the stick with being stuck on an early Saturday morning slot in Japan. It's annoying having friends who pick the shows off as kiddy just because they're in suits, but the genre has mostly been a children's genre for almost ten years.

As for Power Rangers and Sentai filming as one, it's not going to happen. The Magiranger that was filmed in New Zealand, I don't know why people play it up to more than it is. It was just the opening, nothing more, no scenes were used in any episodes, it was just the opening.

Not just the opening, There were some actual films done in Newzeland. Including the Vault from where Magishine train comes out. that's an Actual Train station on NZ.

[CyborgRex]

To me the TMNT will always be better than the PR. Power Rangers is now like Saved by The Bell the New class with new people every year. It is just getting to old, you can't even into it because the next year it is something different. It is nothing but a little kid cash cow. The Ninja Turtles show the same main characters but different villians and a continous story at least in the current show.

[JohnCrichton]

Oh, come on! At least Doggie Kruger looked like a dog! Never bothered me that the mouth didn't move right, as long as it looks good. Anubis looks like Doggie got hit by gamma radiation and is about to turn into the Hulk.
I'm sorry, but I gotta go with Knux here. I'm pretty much known for being unbiased and for most things I tend to defer to Sentai for it superiority when it deserves it.

I washed Dekaranger and it was my first Sentai I saw all the way throuhg and I LOVED Doggie Krueger for the kicass character he was, but..... I have to hand it to Anubis to being the superior version this time. I've said this all of never before, but Anubis just had more to him. I liked his slick scale look and his voice had more range of emotion as did his character.

Doggie was an icon, while Anubis was a full blooded character with his own plot even.

Without blinking my eye, I give it to Burai in Burai vs Tommy, but this.... in this round, Anubis is top dog. ;)

As for Kat vs Swan..... hmmm..... Swan. But this would be fore endeared bias then any merit for merit choice. I loved Swan. She was a great maternal character. :)

[John Pannozzi]

Wow, does Dave McRobie post here? :)
I'll let you in on a little secret. I was "JFP" on the Monster Zero0o0Club Tokyo message boards. Remember me?


But I definitely prefer it over Saban's own series. That was the worst Ninja Turtles-anything.

Don't be so sure. (http://www.x-entertainment.com/articles/0708/)

[ryuuseipro]

I'm sorry, but I gotta go with Knux here. I'm pretty much known for being unbiased and for most things I tend to defer to Sentai for it superiority when it deserves it.

I washed Dekaranger and it was my first Sentai I saw all the way throuhg and I LOVED Doggie Krueger for the kicass character he was, but..... I have to hand it to Anubis to being the superior version this time. I've said this all of never before, but Anubis just had more to him. I liked his slick scale look and his voice had more range of emotion as did his character.

Doggie was an icon, while Anubis was a full blooded character with his own plot even.

Without blinking my eye, I give it to Burai in Burai vs Tommy, but this.... in this round, Anubis is top dog. ;)

As for Kat vs Swan..... hmmm..... Swan. But this would be fore endeared bias then any merit for merit choice. I loved Swan. She was a great maternal character. :)
Like I said, to each his own. I'm not forcing anyone to agree with me on the whole Sentai/PR thing (just making sure everyone knows stuff, and to my surprise, a lot of people here do!), but I just don't see eye to eye on certain things.

BTW, I post on HJU, too (in case you didn't know). ;)

[Chad Bonin]

With that taken care of, I assume we take the Power Rangers (and to a lesser extent, Super Sentai) VS Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (and to a lesser extent, comic books) car back to it's designated path...

One thing that I think a PR/SS vs TMNT argument has to easily concede... the action portion has to be in the Rangers side. TMNT OG always seemed to boil down to fight scenes with pies or whatever reserved for MMPR S1 unmorphed battles.

But, hey, I like gun kata with melee weapons more than just four melee weapons.

(Now, admittedly, I prefer Rangers' action over Super Sentai, but that's just because the awesomeness of Koichi Sakamoto)

[EDIT- BTW, I helped with the name of Henshin Justice..., just in case you didn't know :)]

[ryuuseipro]

I'll let you in on a little secret. I was "JFP" on the Monster Zero0o0Club Tokyo message boards. Remember me?
As a matter of fact, I do! :)


Don't be so sure. (http://www.x-entertainment.com/articles/0708/)
I haven't seen this, but it looks pretty bad. But still, Saban's Turtles series was still awful.


With that taken care of, I assume we take the Power Rangers (and to a lesser extent, Super Sentai) VS Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (and to a lesser extent, comic books) car back to it's designated path...
OK . . .


One thing that I think a PR/SS vs TMNT argument has to easily concede... the action portion has to be in the Rangers side. TMNT OG always seemed to boil down to fight scenes with pies or whatever reserved for MMPR S1 unmorphed battles.
Quite true. And in that regard, PR has come a long way. But then, so did the Turtles, as the new series indicates.


(Now, admittedly, I prefer Rangers' action over Super Sentai, but that's just because the awesomeness of Koichi Sakamoto)
Yeah, Sakamoto is quite awesome. I remember Makoto Yokoyama did some cool stuff, too! (He was also the costumed actor for Shiranui, the title character of Keita Amemiya's Mirai Ninja!)

Amid my bitter frustrations, I do have nice things to say about PR: At least the fight scenes pack more punch in the US! The Japanese versions have all but wussed out. And interestingly, the Rangers out of costume look more mature and tough, whereas the Japanese versions have had wimpy pretty-idols (bishounen/bishoujo) since the mid-to-late 90s. (BTW, despite how I feel about PR, I do not hate the American actors, most of whom are quite talented, especially Jason Frank and Johnny Bosch, who's become a very talented voice actor!)

Even though I think that Super Sentai isn't any better (I much prefer Ultraman and Toho's Chouseishin Series myself), you and some other posters here really got me thinking about PR.


[EDIT- BTW, I helped with the name of Henshin Justice..., just in case you didn't know :)]
Hey, that's cool! Thanks for the info! :D

Spreadin' the word . . .

[JohnCrichton]

The first name I came up for Henshin Justice was "Karate Explosion Unlimited" :D

[DOOM2099]

I hated the generic TMNT cartoon and characterization because it was a weak attempt to cash in on the popularity of Eastman and Laird's original work, which was much darker and more complex.

Power Rangers, on the other hand was absolutely teh sukc. That show was the worst thing to ever hit tv. No wonder kids are so stupid. This show makes kids dumber when they watch it. It is truly an affront against humanity and the people who put this on the air should have poo thrown at them by a hundred monkeys. It would be like a really long trip to the zoo.

[Ember McLean]

I'd prefer both equally.

I especially loved the original Power Rangers cast memebers (Kimberly, Trini, Zack, Billy, Jason and Tommy). The villains rocked out loud! My favorite had always been Rita Repulsa; an excellent villainess who had Lord Zed wrapped around her finger. I freaked a bit, though, but loved it.

TMNT hands down. However, the costumes got really bad by the third movie. I was appalled by how they look. They look more cartoony instead of being more realistic. The reason why they looked better in the first two films was it because it was by Jim Henson Corporation. I don't know why the costumes look so fake in the third film.

As for the Power Rangers, they got worse when Turbo Rangers kicked into gear. Ever since then, I lost all faith for the Power Rangers, untill I saw SPD. The show was really well done and I'm starting to fall in love with the Power Rangers all over again.

Too bad there will be no live-action series again. It will probably be like the Mirage Studios comics, but at least we have the animated series.

[AdamYJ]

I hated the generic TMNT cartoon and characterization because it was a weak attempt to cash in on the popularity of Eastman and Laird's original work, which was much darker and more complex.

Power Rangers, on the other hand was absolutely teh sukc. That show was the worst thing to ever hit tv. No wonder kids are so stupid. This show makes kids dumber when they watch it. It is truly an affront against humanity and the people who put this on the air should have poo thrown at them by a hundred monkeys. It would be like a really long trip to the zoo.

So, your choice basically boils down to . . . none of the above.

Okay.

I've gotta say, sometimes I don't understand the whole TMNT thing. I mean, I love the Turtles, but I don't get the whole light and dark thing. Usually, when a comic book character is described as dark it means that they're these obsessed, uptight, unhappy, emotionally disturbed individuals who are more interesting because of how messed up they are than what likable characters they are. Batman or Daredevil for example. And so, people tell me that the TMNT are dark. Yet, I've read interviews with Peter Laird where he says that the basic appeal of the Turtles for all audiuences (both the grown-ups and the kiddos) is that they really act like four teenage brothers who like to eat junk food, have fun and bust each others' chops. That really doesn't sound all that dark to me. So, what is it? I understand there was a lot more gore and swearing in the original comics, but does that make the characters dark, or just the stories they're in? Could the Turtles be largely light or neutral characters who just get into really dark situations? I just don't know.

[Ian]

Well...a bit from Bucket A, a bit from Bucket B, really. I mean, think about it: they were raised in total isolation since "birth" as instruments for Splinter's revenge. No friends. No chance at all of making their mark on the world. No way to pass their skills to a new generation. Mistrust. Low self-esteem. It's a veritable emopussy breeding ground! That three of the four turtles managed to live through it without any emotional scarring speaks volumes of their resiliency.

Then, as the series goes on, all these barriers are broken, and the darkness dissipates. The Shredder gets killed in the first issue, releasing them from their destiny. In the second issue, the turtles meet April, and Casey appears soon after. Later on, they become Shadow Jones' "uncles". Later still, the Utroms herald the beginning of alien commerce on Earth, which allows them to finally go out in the open.

So, no, the turtles themselves aren't dark characters like Daredevil or Batman--Splinter was, but he eventually learns otherwise. If I were to compare them to anyone, it'd be to Kill Bill's Beatrix Kiddo; a character who's continually placed in grim situations but doesn't succumb to it--which is what you said, really.

Now, it must be mentioned, this aspect of the turtles has been glossed over in its reinterpretations; even the new cartoon replaced Splinter's desire for revenge with overprotectiveness. Still, it can be pretty darn dark at times, as seen in the recent Leo arc.

[AdamYJ]

Okay, I guess that makes sense.

Is it weird that I like the Ninja Turtles in a way that's largely separate from the darkness or lightness of the stories they're in? I just think they're a cool bunch of guys. Though, I have to say that my favorite tone for TMNT stories are ones like the current cartoon and the old movies. It's, like, smack in the middle between the Mirage darkness and the '80s toon lightness (well, maybe edging toward the lightness just a little).

[Ian]

Nah; althought I can't prove it, I think that sentiment actually places you among the majority of the fans--the darkness/light thing is simply dwelled upon because it's so immediately obvious.

Personally, the core of the turtles concept, for me, has always been that one could do absolutely anything with them--ninja stories are just as appropiate as outer space ones, which are just as appropiate as super-hero ones. Heck, they can even cross over with the Wild West C.O.W.boys of Moo Mesa [thanks for the correction, Adam] (which, they will, in an upcoming episode of the comic) and it doesn't feel out of place. In fact, my favorite TMNT storyline comes from the Archie comics (which, while not dark, sometimes had a certain adultness the current cartoon has yet to match), and it involves zombies, time travel, dreams, brains, Adolf Hitler, and mutant cyborgs.

[AdamYJ]

Nah; althought I can't prove it, I think that sentiment actually places you among the majority of the fans--the darkness/light thing is simply dwelled upon because it's so immediately obvious.

Personally, the core of the turtles concept, for me, has always been that one could do absolutely anything with them--ninja stories are just as appropiate as outer space ones, which are just as appropiate as super-hero ones. Heck, they can even cross over with the Wild West Cow-Boys of M.O.O. Mesa (which, they will, in an upcoming episode of the comic) and it doesn't feel out of place. In fact, my favorite TMNT storyline comes from the Archie comics (which, while not dark, sometimes had a certain adultness the current cartoon has yet to match), and it involves zombies, time travel, dreams, brains, Adolf Hitler, and mutant cyborgs.

Hold on a sec'. They're bringing back the Wild West C.O.W.Boys of Moo Mesa in the TMNT comic? (and yes, it's the C.O.W. that's an acronym. It stands for Code Of the West). That's one of the most unexpected returns of a property I've ever heard of.

And, I also agree that the TMNT is a very versatile property. The fact that it's been everything from a gory, violent underground comic to a light and goofy kids' cartoon to a series of PG movies and a few other things besides speaks to that.

[NinjaJack]

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b347/Mezokamen/magivsdeka1.jpg

I think this pic of the American SPD armor in a Sentai Production proves one thing clear.

PR and Sentai are Brothers United, even if some fans refuse to see it.

[ryuuseipro]

[pic]

I think this pic of the American SPD armor in a Sentai Production proves one thing clear.

PR and Sentai are Brothers United, even if some fans refuse to see it.*sigh*

If PR/Sentai fans are trying to drag me into this part of the debate (and yes, I'm well aware of their debate concerning this subject), then I want no part of it. At all. Just because an American costume prop is being used in a Japanese version (which is a big deal to others) does not make me want to pursue PR, because I don't watch the new shows much in either version. My interest in future Super Sentai has already been pretty much spoiled long before this paradox. Not just because of PR, but because of the stagnation and oversaturation of Super Sentai.

From then on, in terms of tokusatsu superhero shows, it's been Ultraman and Chouseishin for me. (IMHO, the latter is everything recent Super Sentai wished it was, and then some!)

[NinjaJack]

Will you be watching Ryukendo?

[ryuuseipro]

Will you be watching Ryukendo?Most probably, yes. Looks quite good!

[ryuuseipro]

Just another clarification:


Ultraman failing in the US has no one to blame but Tsuburaya. They're the ones that didn't want a Power Ranger like take on the show. They wanted it dubbed, not adapted and it failed big time.
Pal, you give Tiga's "failure" way too much credit. As I said before, there is a market for Ultraman here, but I'll go into that in a moment . . .

I wouldn't be surprised if Tiga got cancelled, partially because of Tsuburaya's current legal battle with Chaiyo Productions of Thailand (public news broke out around the same time, even though the battle went on since 1996). You probably already know that the legal battle is over merchandising rights to the first 6 shows (Ultra Q through Ultraman Tarou) outside Japan, but Tsuburaya still has the rights to the shows in the US! Tsuburaya COULD market all of the shows to the US, but from what I heard from official sources (August Ragone, Bob Johnson, Keith Aiken, etc.) close to the company, they are actually reluctant to do so until they finally win the rights back! One of a few things could happen: Even IF Tsuburaya could market these shows to the US, Chaiyo, which has widely claimed (or should I say, lied) in the Asian media that they have ALL of the rights to Ultraman (which they don't) could throw a monkey wrench into the works by suing the US distributor, which could back out as a result, and that would be disastrous for Tsuburaya.

Now, do you understand?

So far, I've heard RUMORS that the court battle is continuing in Taiwan. Meanwhile, ProLink Communications, Tsuburaya's official Thai representative, is handling the case in their own country. Hopefully, things are not looking too good for Chaiyo (which printed some very stupid lies on the Thai/Asian news media).

BTW, there are several companies here wanting to option the Ultra Series for DVD release here! Remember, people still remember the first series, and Ultraman is still best known to Americans as a Japanese pop culture icon. But Tsuburaya is holding back on that until things are settled. Even if Tiga "failed", Ultraman the Next did an incredible job at the limited theatrical screenings in California! But if it did so well, why isn't there a distributor? Tiga's failure has nothing to do with this. Tsuburaya is laying low on Ultraman in the US until Chaiyo goes bye-bye in court! Until then, no Ultraman here.

So the sooner Chaiyo shrivels up and dies, the better it will be for the rest of us. All of us.

[Jex]

When I was younger these two shows were really the only ones I watched and collected the merchendise. After 3 years they both seemed like crap. But I'm gonna have to say TMNT, only because it was higly original back in the day. I mean, come on, Teenagers who were turned into turtles and became ninjas that live in the sewer and have an over-obssesive appeal for pizza??!!! That's originalaty!(SP??)