How much staying power can the Ultimate titles really have?

[Stupendous Man]

I've been considering this since Marvel first started publishing its
Ultimate titles.

How much staying power can these Ultimate titles really have?

Think about it.

The appeal of the Ultimate titles, according to Marvel, is to bring in new readers with origin stories and titles not bogged down in continuity.

O.K.

But what happens when these titles start to pile up ...were allready in the high teens with Ultimate Spiderman.

When Ultimate Spiderman is on issue 30 ... and its no longer an
origin story - what will differentiate it from regular continuity?
(other than the characters age).

When the Ultimate titles are no longer new origins ..and get solidly into Act Two of the storylines - will they still be appealing?

Isnt Marvel just following DC's old mistakes?
Theyve created a "Marvel Earth 2" ...
(lets not even discuss theyre "Marvel Earth 3" from their
Heroes Reborn story arc.

How long before we have "Crisis on Infinate Marvel Earth's"?

Thoughts?

[NewMaxFranklin]

I'm reading the Ultimate Spiderman and X-Men comics and I like that they're reinventing everything. Starting from the beginning with a new spinn is perfect for me, because I don't know all about the history of everyone like the real fans.

As long as the writing is good and they keep everything interesting I won't mind if they do something I've seen before. If it gets tedious I'll just stop reading. But, I think it could last.

[pencilsharp]

I look at it this way...
After 40 years, Marvel has made a lot of mistakes. Convoluted and unending plotlines that have meandered from here to Timbuktu. New silly-looking costumes. And I'll do everyone the favor of not mentioning clones...
This is a chance to restart. To tell good stories in a focused way. The origin ended for USM with #12. Seems to me that everyone involved has been doing pretty well with it. Heck, I've actually read every issue of UXM as well. I haven't bought that many issues of the regular X-boox in my entire life.
The key point to the survival of the Ulti line is that it must NOT lose its focus (a la Marvel Classic Roast...) That means strong editors. Writers and artists may come and go, but the editor is the one who keeps it all together.
So long as they can do that, Ulti Marvel should have a loyal audience for some time to come.

[kid_flash]

I think the Ultimate line has a lotta staying power. Down the road, when USM and UXM are way up there, they'll still have each issue begin with "Previously...", thus making it new-reader-friendly.

[Karkull]

Quite a bit, apparently. The Ultimate Spider-Man is loads of fun--with its mingling of over thirty years of Spider-Man lore. It's doing for Spider-Man what Batman: The Animated Series did for Batman!

Besides, I won't be satisfied until they introduce "Ultimate Venom"--and that will take a while.

:o

Oh, and Mark Bagley can't leave. Ever. He's too good!

[kid_flash]

I agree, Bagley's the man. With him and Bendis on the team (not to mention glossy pages!), you can't go wrong! And check out them covers! Bagley's art with digital colors! Yay!

[Memphis Bleek]

As long as Ultimate titles have good writers, artists, stories, and keep the number of titles down to 4 or 5 at the most. The Ultimate titles will around for long time to come

[Stupendous Man]

I think you have to consider the long term busness reprocussions
and the sort of market confusion it would cause having two differing Marvel Universes.. two different Spiderman Continuities.

It cant last.

Dont get me wrong .. I am totally digging Bendis's Spidey Stories.

But it cant last long term.

I predict the Ultimate line will last 2 years tops.

Its unfortunate , but true.

[Karkull]

Originally posted by The Spirit
I predict the Ultimate line will last 2 years tops.

Its unfortunate , but true.

Ultimate Spider-Man #17 hits shelves tomorrow. You have seven months.

:)

[pencilsharp]

I predict the Ultimate line will last 2 years tops. Actually, I think Spectacular Spidey will last maybe 2 more years, tops. Ditto for X-treme X-Men, regardless of what the sales are now.

[halinar]

As long as they keep producing a quality book I'll be buying. Most of the main books are so far gone that I have dropped all my x-books on a monthly basis and just look at them on a week by week basis as they come out to decide if they were worth my money.

[SilentBobWooHoo]

I haven't been dissapointed by any of the Ultimate stories yet, and I hope they stick around for a while...Bendis is brilliant. I don't know what Marvel would do if he left USM though...

[pencilsharp]

...Bendis is brilliant. I don't know what Marvel would do if he left USM though... I've noticed something. There are a few titles on the shelves that have become prestigious because of the writing. That may not seem like much of an accomplishment, but considering that for most of the last two decades, the artist has been the one who has lent prestige to a title, like George Perez on The New Teen Titans.
Right now, I think that we can include USM, UXM, and JLA in this rare category. So as to SBWH's statement about what Marvel would do, I'd say Joe Q would sell it to creators as a plum job: one that could really make a writer. In fact, I hope Bendis steps aside before he starts suffering a bout of Dixonitis, aka burnout.
But that's my opinion, that means it's wrong. :)

[kid_flash]

Bendis said at a recent convention that he's so happy there has been such a focus on writing in comics these days, and he's right. While artists still have their place and are highly valued, writing is the number one selling point for comics right now. Joe Q's just been grabbing all the good writers :rolleyes:

[James Harvey]

Writing is definatly the selling point for most comics now. Look at how well Green Arrow is doing, mostly becuase of Kevin Smith's named attached to the credit box. Even Joe Kelly is bringin new interest to the JLA series, and Jeph Loeb is a big reason why Superman is so good and selling well. While the X-MEN books would still sell with no names on the titles, but having big names like Grant Morrison and Joe Casey on the titles have boasted them far up on the charts.

And let's not forget Frank Miller's DK2...main selling point it being Frank Miller's book...

[Stupendous Man]

I buy my comics based on the writing and not the art.
The art should compliment a story - not distract from it.

**

I agree that Bendis is doing a great job on 'Ultimate Spidey'.
I love all his work to date ... especially "Powers'.

Wouldnt Bendis have done an equally good job writing a regular continuity Spidey as hes doing with an Ultimate Spiderman?

Please dont protest by saying that Bendis wouldnt have been able to do regular spidey as well because regular spidey is
burdend with continuity.

Bendis is doing a marvelous job
with Daredevil whose a regular continuity character who
a case could be made has a more complicated backstory
(thanks in part to Frank Millar ) than Spiderman.

My original point is the Ultimate Titles will soon cease to be a retelling of origins and soon become regular stories with their own contnuity.

How long can marvel support 2 parrallel Marvel Universes?

What about market confusion down the line ?

How much of Ultimate Spiderman is Bendis? What happens
when Bendis leaves the title - is their a need for Ultimate Spidey to continue in his abscense?

Thats kinda my point.

People here seem to be responding -

" I love Ultimate Spidey" or " This is a wonderfully written book"

and you get no arguement from me.

However how long can it last realistically?

Remember Marvel 2099 ?
Remember Hereos Reborn?
remember Infinite Earths ?

[Karkull]

Good point, The Spirit. Maybe they'll have their own Crisis someday and merge them together! After all, some of the character's backstories are becoming pretty outdated...

[kid_flash]

I can't see Marvel doing a Crisis. It just seems...so un-Marvel like.

But I do think the Ultimate titles will be around for awhile and develop their own continuity. I highly doubt Marvel will be ditching the Ultimate line for awhile, especially since they're selling better than most of the mainstream. Look at January's top 10:

1. Batman: The 10-Cent Adventure
2. Origin #6
3. The Dark Knight Strikes Again #2
4. The Ultimates #1
5. New X-Men #122
6. Moment of Silence
7. Uncanny X-Men #402
8. Ultimate X-Men #14
9. Amazing Spider-Man #39
10. Ultimate Spider-Man #17

So the three main Ultimate titles all made it in the top ten this month, while only the X-Men sat in the top ten with both mainstream AND Ultimate (the major titles, anyway). Granted, The Ultimates is just kicking off, but with Mark Millar and Bryan Hitch behind it, I don't think it'll be outta the top ten anytime soon.

[Stupendous Man]

I'll im saying is dont get too attached to the "Ultimate" titles.

Trust me.

And I know they're popular now , but that hardly means a thing.

Anybody remember when Solar and X-O Machine of War were in
the top 10 ?

Were are those titles now? hmm. canceled?
Hey weres Acclaim ... oh out of business.

[Karkull]

Originally posted by The Spirit
Anybody remember when Solar and X-O Machine of War were in the top 10?

But that was back when there were tons of comic book companies being created and going out of business months later. What about Chaos Comics? They're still [kind of] around.

The whole Ultimates thing is kind of like the hens coming home to roost. For ten years I've heard people complain "We don't like Peter Parker as an adult and being married, it's not right. We like him when he was a high schooler." Well, now they can have that and not complain.

But you make a valid point: the Ultimates probably won't go on forever. But if they're still popular they could just overtake the older titles and become Marvel's "canon."

[Memphis Bleek]

How long did DC support two different parallel universes. Second the ultimate line is not retelling regular 616 continiuty. Wolverine never engaged intercourse with Jean Grey in regular universe. Weapon X is from canada in regular universe not usa ultimate universe. I could go on but I won't. How is regular universe and ultimate universe confusing? The characters look noticeablely different in the ultimate universe. Marvel always tell whether it Ultimate Spider-man or Regular Spider-man. The two universe are totally different. Yours point are weak at best the spirit.

[Karkull]

I wouldn't say that his argument is weak, Memphis Bleek. At what point will the Ultimate titles absorb enough of the regular titles as to be indistinguishable?

I mean, they're just reintroducing the classic characters with updated origins. What if they start doing revised versions of classic storylines, like "The Dark Phoenix Saga?" And what happens when they're down to introducing "Ultimate Darkhawk" or "Ultimate D-Man?" At what point do they become redundant?

[kid_flash]

But they're also removing some stuff that didn't work (I don't see the Ultimate Clone Saga coming). And in USM, all the threats are all coming out of New York (no space-invading symbioites). Also, over in UXM, Wolverine obviously came a lot earlier than regular continuity. And especially in UXM and The Ultimates, the characters and designs are much different. So there are a lotta differences, and frankly I prefer the Ultimate line to mainstream, and I think there are enough people who feel the same way to keep the line going.

[Memphis Bleek]

Originally posted by kid_flash
But they're also removing some stuff that didn't work (I don't see the Ultimate Clone Saga coming). And in USM, all the threats are all coming out of New York (no space-invading symbioites). Also, over in UXM, Wolverine obviously came a lot earlier than regular continuity. And especially in UXM and The Ultimates, the characters and designs are much different. So there are a lotta differences, and frankly I prefer the Ultimate line to mainstream, and I think there are enough people who feel the same way to keep the line going.

That what I'm saying. How can it be the same if events and characters in the books are different? The Ultimate books won't have garbage that regular book had!

[Karkull]

Yup, now they have the opportunity to make their own garbage, :).

[The Green Hornet]

marvel will NEVER do a crisis

marvel's way of addressing and fixing continuity problems is simply to ignore what has gone before

of course it wasnt ALWAYS this way

[Spider-Man]

I think the ULTIMATE titles are doing pretty good. They've managed to keep the same amount of heat and hype since their premiere, which is hard to do. They're a welcome alternative from the bogged down, continuity laden, mainstream titles.

[Stupendous Man]

Posted by Spider-Man


( The Ultimate titles) .. are a welcome alternative from the bogged down, continuity laden, mainstream titles.



I agree, for now. What happens when the Ultimate titles
have their own continuity ? My concern was that a large part
of the Ultimate title's appeal is the lack of backstory and history.

What happens two years from now when they have 30 or 40 issues in the bag?


Posted by Memphis Bleek

That what I'm saying. How can it be the same if events and characters in the books are different? The Ultimate books won't have garbage that regular book had!



The problem is that your approaching this scenario with knowledge of both universes.

Its apparent to you what the differences are in both universes
cause your intimately aware of both.

A person coming off the street with no knowledge of the Xmen
might be confused as to which title houses which stories.

Also ..your optimistic about the Ultimates not having "garbage"..
but keep in mind no one starts out with the intention of
publishing garbage. Its not like marvel said .. hey we could use some garbage right about now - how about a clone saga?

These are basically the same writers and same group of people ..
theyre bound to make some of the same mistakes - or whole new ones.


Posted by Memphis Bleek

How long did DC support two different parallel universes.



Long enough for it to become crippling and alienate new
readers.


Posted by Memphis Bleek

Yours point are weak at best the spirit.


Well of course I disagree .. LOL .. :)

Actually, I think if you look at all the points I made
throughout the sum of all the posts on this thread
I think youd be inclined to believe there valid -
(even if you hope its not true cause your a fan of the Ultimate titles).

At any rate I think history supports my arguements .. for anyone whose been a comic collecter for a while ...theyve learned
to recognize the signs.

I was never arguing from a regular marvel vs Ultimate marvel
perspective.
Im enjoying the Ultimate line ... I was just pondering its
reprocussions to the Marvel Line .

[SilentBobWooHoo]

Going off topic for a minute...who's read the new Ultimate Spiderman? If you haven't, you should!!!