Bandai president speaks on Gundam and the future

[HellCat]

http://s03.2log.net/home/gunota/flag/jpf.jpg Bandai Pres/CGO Ueno interview

From Adult's Gundam 2 by Nikkei BP Mook:

Will the Gundam business change with the merger?
Ueno - The basic stance will not change. I will still remain as CGO. That was one of the conditions when I became the President of Bandai. The group company will change. Bandai will no longer be public, but in return the parent company will be. With the merger of Namco, I think the Gundam business will expand further. At the moment I can't reveal how, but I promise it will go beyond expectations. Up to this point, we have conducted collaborations with various companies. These will continue on based on each venture.

Position of the Group companies
Ueno - For now, each Bandai Group company will remain under the private company Bandai. I have received questions regarding making some of the Bandai operations independent and subsidary of Bandai Namco Holdings. About that, if it is necessary, we will do it. For example, at this time, there's no merit in making Gunpla independent from the Hobby Division. If we need an extraordinary amount of funding for some kind of plan, then a strategy like that is possible. Right now, we have no need for it. Plus, there's a risk of being bought out if we make it public nowadays.

Subsidiary production companies
Ueno - I won't deny the prospect of buying more production companies and making them part of the family. However, I think we can be competitive the way things are now. In terms of production companies, we do have Sunrise and Bandai Visual, but I don't believe having a larger scale is the way to go. I think Sunrise's current size is sufficient.

Future Gundam merchandise
Ueno - With Bandai's Gundam business, the Hobby Division is the most rich in history and achievement. It'll continue to be the core. On the other hand, the merger with Namco will create new business opportunites besides software packages. We still have lots of stuff to do in shopping mall arcades and in the game software genre. We'll continue developing these areas. Right now, we have many ideas thanks to the merger.

Next generation console systems
Ueno - Up to this point, Bandai hasn't limited itself to a particular platform for games. This stance won't change and we'll continue with the multi-platform model. It's already been announced that we'll be releasing Gundam games for Xbox 360 and the PS3. Which gets released first will depend on the development circumstances. Hardware performance has greatly advanced when compared to the current models. In addition, the development hurdle is higher and we have to think about how to deal with it. One of the biggest merits in this area is the merger with Namco.

Cooperating with other companies after the merger
Ueno - In the past, we did several joint ventures like developing Gundam games with Capcom, Nintendo releasing a Char Custom GameCube, and Sony Computer Entertainment releasing a Hyaku Shiki Playstation 2. We haven't thought much about the effect of the merger. I'm sure others have thought about it. Thinking, "We probably can't work with Bandai anymore." For joint ventures, I don't think they should become nervous. This is the same stance for Bandai & Namco. If they propose a new idea, I think we can work together on Gundam-related projects. After the merger settles, I'm sure other companies will come to believe Bandai hasn't changed their stance at all.

America's Gundam Business
Ueno - Looking at overall Gundam sales, 95% is domestic (Japan). The other 5% is overseas. Around 1999, we started releasing Gundam in the US. The real kickoff was in 2000 with Cartoon Network's broadcast of Gundam Wing. This series was popular with American fans but it didn't lead to the creation of a consistent fanbase. The same thing happened with the kids-oriented show SD Gundam Force. The historical outlooks on war between Americans and Japanese are different. Since war themes are harsher, we thought cuter themes like SD Gundam would work. We probably needed one more twist.

Gundam merchandise is exported to North America. However, the majority of the consumers are Asian-Americans. Overall sales aren't huge either. Currently the Super Sentai series like Power Rangers is the biggest money maker. It might be correct that we have to start from scratch for Gundam merchandising strategy in the US. One idea could be seriously thinking about a Gundam series for the US market. Of course, that series would have to be done so it can be reimported back to Japan. Gundam has a marvelous worldview, but bringing a series created in Japan with little North American style is difficult to sell.

Of course, not all of Japanese anime fits this category. There are series like Pokemon becoming localized and being hits. The Dragonball series is one example for Bandai. We thought using the same strategy as Pokemon and Dragonball would work for Gundam. We've realized it doesn't quite work that way. This is why we started market research in the US. We believe we can eventually create a long term Gundam project focusing on the US market.

European Business
Ueno - The situation in Europe is similar to the US, with Gundam business yet to be established. Power Rangers is doing very well along with Dragonball games. Tamagotchi is doing well, beating our original forecasts. Looking at the overall sales, the European market has finally surpassed the US market. Currently, our European business is centered around France. We have yet to cover all countries. This means we have room to grow. We pulled out of Germany once, but we are going to enter the market again. Latin-related countries are showing more enthusiasm for Japanese character products.

The main task is to enter more European markets. It's become more stable compared to the US, but the numbers differ depending on the series. Another problem is whether each country's TV stations will air them. Bandai is carrying a lot of series ready to be aired and have reached the point of releasing them. But we can't do it in Europe. We are thinking about DVD releases or net-streaming in order to get them out.

Right now, we're prioritizing the US market for Gundam at the moment. We have yet to perform market research in Europe.

The favorable Taiwan, Hong Kong and Korean markets
Ueno - Gundam is very popular in Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Korea. We hold Gunpla contests in Taiwan and Hong Kong with lots of fans participating. When we created a showroom called "Gundam Base" in Taiwan, I had the privilege of holding a lecture there. When we look at these success stories outside of Japan, we strongly believe Gundam has potential in the US and Europe. All there is left is to make it happen.

Compared to Taiwan and Hong Kong, mainland China has a ways to go. Recently, we showcased our booth in China. The reactions were positive. At the same time, the booth next to us was displaying pirated Gundam merchandise. It looks like the local people know the difference between the real and fake products. Official products are sold, but at 10 times the price of counterfeits.

Both the governments of Japan and China are working to eliminate pirated merchandise. However, this is going to take a long time. Rather than go after the counterfeiters, we have to release more official products and surround the fans with them.

Q - What you would like to do in the future as CGO
Ueno - I believe the Gundam business is a straightforward challenge. If we could introduce the worldview of First Gundam and Zeta in a new form... like a new anime series or merchandise... As the CGO, I think about merchandise first though I would like to take the same approach with series and movie productions.

Gundam SEED is a wonderful series. I don't deny SEED's success, but I would like others to know about the origin more. Doing First with today's technology could be one way. Personally, I would like to dig deeper and express that worldview. If we can do that, more Gunpla and merchandise will follow. ¶ 4:56 AM (http://aeug.blogspot.com/2005_11_01_aeug_archive.html#113309687243397038) As usual, some interesting stuff. If he's being honest with his stance on marketting Gundam in America, then that's good. Past stance of the Japanese side on the matter hasn't been too good. Also nice to know they're starting to seriously consider the European market. The UK wasn't directly mentioned but I'm hopeful.
As for the talk of forthcoming plans...*whistles innocently*

[FlyByNite77]

One idea could be seriously thinking about a Gundam series for the US market. Of course, that series would have to be done so it can be reimported back to Japan. Gundam has a marvelous worldview, but bringing a series created in Japan with little North American style is difficult to sell.

:eek: I hope it's not something where the "US" is the good guys just to supposedly placate Americans.

[HellCat]

One idea could be seriously thinking about a Gundam series for the US market. Of course, that series would have to be done so it can be reimported back to Japan. Gundam has a marvelous worldview, but bringing a series created in Japan with little North American style is difficult to sell.

:eek: I hope it's not something where the "US" is the good guys just to supposedly placate Americans.
From what I've heard, this would be something that they'd work on with American employees who are fans of the more traditional Gundam. Basically, it would follow the heart of Gundam but listen to people from the actual intended market telling them what is and isn't likely to work.

[Gatomon41]

Ueno - Looking at overall Gundam sales, 95% is domestic (Japan). The other 5% is overseas. Around 1999, we started releasing Gundam in the US. The real kickoff was in 2000 with Cartoon Network's broadcast of Gundam Wing. This series was popular with American fans but it didn't lead to the creation of a consistent fanbase. What were they expecting, the New Star Trek? Gundam Wing premiered on Cartoon Network, not exactly everybody is going to watch the channel.


The same thing happened with the kids-oriented show SD Gundam Force. The historical outlooks on war between Americans and Japanese are different. Since war themes are harsher, we thought cuter themes like SD Gundam would work. We probably needed one more twist.
SD Gundam, to alot of other fans, thought it was horrible. Bad writing, and the humor wasn't that good.

If war is a concern, Bandai should have made another G-rated Gundam war like Gundam Wing had. Sure, it's not going to get points from Military fans who like the Orginal Gundams hrash protrayal of war, but it's proabably get more people to watch and buy their mercandice.

The one twist I suggest would be combining Digimon with Gundam. Both franchises need help :p

[HellCat]

What were they expecting, the New Star Trek? Gundam Wing premiered on Cartoon Network, not exactly everybody is going to watch the channel.

SD Gundam, to alot of other fans, thought it was horrible. Bad writing, and the humor wasn't that good.

If war is a concern, Bandai should have made another G-rated Gundam war like Gundam Wing had. Sure, it's not going to get points from Military fans who like the Orginal Gundams hrash protrayal of war, but it's proabably get more people to watch and buy their mercandice.

The one twist I suggest would be combining Digimon with Gundam. Both franchises need help :p
Bandai Japan have rather unrealistic hopes about Gundam. Essentially, to them Japan=The World. If it can work in Japan, it MUST work everywhere.
I think they killed alot of Gundams chances by insisting MSG was pushed after Wing. On top of that, most Wing fans were teenyboppers following a fad. How many abandoned Wing fan sites can you find online these days?


SD...I've danced this dance before so I won't bore you.

The issue is, they want something that can be reverse imported. It's no good from their POV creating something which is a smash hit in the US but is hated by the Japanese fans (trust me, there are some right...'jerks' in the Japanese fandom).
The point of America and Japan having different views on war is something I'm glad they've picked up on. When you're dealing with a country which is currently in full force for national pride in certain areas, a show saying "War is bad" isn't likely to catch on. At the same time, SEED Destiny may get a lukewarm reception for it's obvious commentary on post 9/11 America.

[rubberchicken]

Basically what he means by the inconsistent American Gundam fanbase is that few of the fans who made Wing popular stuck around to watch any of the newer shows.

He's right about the new marketing strategy being needed, though... merchandise doesn't sell shows (or vice versa) here like they evidently do over there... nor does J-Pop.

Gundam Wing may have been more popular on CN as well because it's a relatively kid-friendly Gundam show... no depressing character deaths, no terrible war crimes, no mindless fanservice - just a badass-looking main character with a bunch of equally badass-looking super robots.

So... if you wanted a Gundam show to appeal to a mainstream American audience, you'd need to bring in people who probably aren't anime fans already.

[HellCat]

So... if you wanted a Gundam show to appeal to a mainstream American audience, you'd need to bring in people who probably aren't anime fans already.
Exactly! That's one of the things it was hoped GOUF would help with (though we became little more than a hang out for the most immature existing fans). The Gundam fanbase in America is rather pathetic numbers wise. As it currently stands, it's never going to live up to the expectations put before it.

[Conan-san]

And let's not even start with the European ones, shall we? Or is it just the brittish who get/have been (it's geting better...just) hosed.

[rubberchicken]

An "American" Gundam show will basically need...

* No J-Pop. Orchestral scores instead.
* A more realistic art style. Cowboy Bebop or Monster instead of big-eyes and everyone-looks-the-same.
* More variety in action. People do notice when they see the same clips of stuff blowing up over and over...
* More clip shows. *sigh* Ideally, you'd have a clip show airing in a different time slot so as not to disrupt the flow of the story, which would turn people off real quick... but one major problem with Gundam is that if you're a series newcomer who misses one crucial episode early on, you'll be completely thrown off. And chances are you won't keep watching.
* Less dramatic posing and showing off potential toys, more focus on characters. You're going to need to bring in an older audience too, and they're not as likely to be wowed just by pretty lights and explosions.

[Gatomon41]

The point of America and Japan having different views on war is something I'm glad they've picked up on. When you're dealing with a country which is currently in full force for national pride in certain areas, a show saying "War is bad" isn't likely to catch on. At the same time, SEED Destiny may get a lukewarm reception for it's obvious commentary on post 9/11 America.Maybe it could be redubbed to be commentray on Pre-Economic Depression Japan :p


Basically what he means by the inconsistent American Gundam fanbase is that few of the fans who made Wing popular stuck around to watch any of the newer shows..True, I still know fans of Gundam Wing, but have never got into the Gundam series themselves. Except G-Gundam.


He's right about the new marketing strategy being needed, though... merchandise doesn't sell shows (or vice versa) here like they evidently do over there... nor does J-Pop.
Getting a good producer and writer would be a good step towards the right direction...


Gundam Wing may have been more popular on CN as well because it's a relatively kid-friendly Gundam show... no depressing character deaths, no terrible war crimes, no mindless fanservice - just a badass-looking main character with a bunch of equally badass-looking super robots.

So... if you wanted a Gundam show to appeal to a mainstream American audience, you'd need to bring in people who probably aren't anime fans already.Another good point. Though, one wonders what type of Gundam story would appeal to a mainstream American audeince. Maybe Josh Whedon could come up with an idea. :p



More clip shows. *sigh* Ideally, you'd have a clip show airing in a different time slot so as not to disrupt the flow of the story, which would turn people off real quick... but one major problem with Gundam is that if you're a series newcomer who misses one crucial episode early on, you'll be completely thrown off. And chances are you won't keep watching.

I think a more episodic approach would would work, with an overall plot. Maybe a clip show or two, or shows that are half-reviews, half-story might work out well.

[HellCat]

An "American" Gundam show will basically need...

* No J-Pop. Orchestral scores instead.
* A more realistic art style. Cowboy Bebop or Monster instead of big-eyes and everyone-looks-the-same.
* More variety in action. People do notice when they see the same clips of stuff blowing up over and over...
* More clip shows. *sigh* Ideally, you'd have a clip show airing in a different time slot so as not to disrupt the flow of the story, which would turn people off real quick... but one major problem with Gundam is that if you're a series newcomer who misses one crucial episode early on, you'll be completely thrown off. And chances are you won't keep watching.
* Less dramatic posing and showing off potential toys, more focus on characters. You're going to need to bring in an older audience too, and they're not as likely to be wowed just by pretty lights and explosions.
At the very least, I'd keep Japanese music in as an insert song. I think it'd work best if they did like IGPX and had an American soundtrack and a Japanese one.
Agreed on the art style. Potentially, consider Bruce Timm or the guy doing the designs on The Batman.
Since this has been an issue even with the people forced to animate it, definetly agree. Stock footage has a certain charm but use it only when necessary.
I'd say one clip show. Other American series and also anime seem to do fine with that. It's just poor planning which saw so many in SEED/SEED Destiny.
Definetly character focus BUT for Bandai, Gundam is all about toy sales. They'd need to look at stuff like what Tomino does where the marketable elements actually further the story, rather than take center stafe.

[rubberchicken]

I don't deny SEED's success, but I would like others to know about the origin more. Doing First with today's technology could be one way. Personally, I would like to dig deeper and express that worldview. If we can do that, more Gunpla and merchandise will follow.
I'm liking this guy more and more...

[HellCat]

I'm liking this guy more and more...
Could be interesting, that's for sure (I remember Beatdigga suggesting similar in the past). Still, what IS coming isn't likely to dissapoint people either.

[Dark Fact]

Ueno - Looking at overall Gundam sales, 95% is domestic (Japan). The other 5% is overseas. Around 1999, we started releasing Gundam in the US. The real kickoff was in 2000 with Cartoon Network's broadcast of Gundam Wing. This series was popular with American fans but it didn't lead to the creation of a consistent fanbase. The same thing happened with the kids-oriented show SD Gundam Force. The historical outlooks on war between Americans and Japanese are different. Since war themes are harsher, we thought cuter themes like SD Gundam would work. We probably needed one more twist.
Wait a minute. So what Ueno is saying here is that us North Americans aren't capable of handling japanese themes of war...and as a consolation, we wind up getting a dumbed down version of Gundam called SD Gundam? WTF?


Another good point. Though, one wonders what type of Gundam story would appeal to a mainstream American audeince. Maybe Josh Whedon could come up with an idea.
Yeah, because we'd all like to see a bunch of emo jerks piloting oversided mechs. :shrug:

[Pepperidge]

Naturally, he doesn't mention the English speaking countries where Gundam HAS been a consistent success.

It would be cool if YTV and Bandai teamed up to get Ecole du Ciel animated. The fact that it's set in Montreal alone would be incentive enough for the Canadian government to fund a significant portion of it.

[HellCat]

Wait a minute. So what Ueno is saying here is that us North Americans aren't capable of handling japanese themes of war...and as a consolation, we wind up getting a dumbed down version of Gundam called SD Gundam? WTF?


Yeah, because we'd all like to see a bunch of emo jerks piloting oversided mechs. :shrug:
What he's saying more seems to be is that the view on war often presented in Gundam (that there is no good guys and bad guys in war) doesn't sit well with the kinds of "USA A-OK!" people you see in America. It's obviously not intended as a blanket statment on you guys but it is mostly right.
Whilst SD is a more simplified concept, it's not like it was a whole new idea dreamt up for the US to speak down to it. It had existed for years in Japan, they used alot of similar concepts seen in the older SD stuff and the second half did make a jump in maturity.

As for your other comment- ZING!


It would be cool if YTV and Bandai teamed up to get Ecole du Ciel animated. The fact that it's set in Montreal alone would be incentive enough for the Canadian government to fund a significant portion of it.
Eh, let the side stories like that stay manga only, it's where they work best. Something that existing Gundam fans could find, but if you start offering it along with the more mainstream Gundam stuff that the larger world is aware of it just creates problems. There's a reason a forthcoming volume is being released in Japan with a figurine of the young female lead...

[Duke]

It's already been announced that we'll be releasing Gundam games for Xbox 360 and the PS3....For the love of... MAKE SOME GAMES FOR REVOLUTION!

[HellCat]

...For the love of... MAKE SOME GAMES FOR REVOLUTION!
Beam saber controller for you to run around stabbing people in the gut? Power Glove knock-off so you can use Amuro as a punching bag? Knife handle controller so you can try and stab Dearka?

[Artimus Gigan]

...For the love of... MAKE SOME GAMES FOR REVOLUTION!They didn't make any for the N64 or Gamecube either

[HellCat]

They didn't make any for the N64 or Gamecube either
Can't speak for the N64, but they definetly made at least one Gundam Gamecube game in Japan.

[Vagrant]

North American Gundam ... no problem if they let me write it.

[rubberchicken]

Beam saber controller for you to run around stabbing people in the gut? Power Glove knock-off so you can use Amuro as a punching bag? Knife handle controller so you can try and stab Dearka?
Nintendo DS was going to be a huge flop too, remember.

[Wounded_Dragon]

...For the love of... MAKE SOME GAMES FOR REVOLUTION!
Bah, how about keeping the original BGMs in the games and not replacing them with generic crap...

[HellCat]

Bah, how about keeping the original BGMs in the games and not replacing them with generic crap...
Latest SEED game?

[Artimus Gigan]

Can't speak for the N64, but they definetly made at least one Gundam Gamecube game in Japan.I'm talking about American releases, since they are trying to make Gundam appealing to American Audiances

[HellCat]

I'm talking about American releases, since they are trying to make Gundam appealing to American Audiances
Should've said. The article isn't just discussing the US side of things.

[Bunai]

its seems like its talking about "we want all americans to be into the Gundam stories". if they are aiming for mainstream they are going to have a hard time.
why not be satisfied with what you can get? and focus on fans bringing in others?

i'm a GW fan and i liked Gundam, and was disappointed when it didn't air anymore, but understood why.
one of the reasons US japanime watchers don't like Japan's take on war because at times it comes off so corny! even when an episode is suppose to be sad you just find yourself laughing cause of how overly dramatic things can get, and the reaction. i think it has nothing to do with "this is good guy...this is bad guy"
a lot of Americans viewers like backstories on characters that are going to grow as the series goes on. whats disliked (IMO) is how stale the character can get."I fight to protect the ones I love!!" ummm yeah...and what else? is there more to that? who are these people you want to protect?
i mean let people want to know the character.

if you can't make appealing side-characters (regardless of their role in the story), or a semi believable story/plot, and a main character that isn't such a cliche cookie cutter of his past incarnations of Gundam series. you can appeal to a wider market.


* No J-Pop. Orchestral scores instead.
J-Pop is fine, it would be nice to have more variety in language, and lyrics...a good chunk of anime songs are so repeative with themes. and yes Orch works greatly, so do Instrum theme songs.
* A more realistic art style. Cowboy Bebop or Monster instead of big-eyes and everyone-looks-the-same.most of the time what bothers me is that anime wants the main charas to stand out so much then when you show other people (like villagers or whatever) they look very unappealing, its like they are done in two different styles. has nothing to do with a design of realism, seems more if the design can work with movement of the characters. A big one is MORE DIVERSITY! seeing the EuroJapanese and added typical Chinese characters can be a turn off...you get your average dark skinned chara just for the heck of making her exotic and foreign. it would be nice to have more ethnicity to Gundam.
* More variety in action. People do notice when they see the same clips of stuff blowing up over and over...uhhh yup XD make backgrounds look useful instead of painted. seeing an explosion in ep 16 that was done in ep 8 can be very noticable.
* More clip shows. *sigh* Ideally, you'd have a clip show airing in a different time slot so as not to disrupt the flow of the story, which would turn people off real quick... but one major problem with Gundam is that if you're a series newcomer who misses one crucial episode early on, you'll be completely thrown off. And chances are you won't keep watching.one thing that can bug me about clip shows is when they happen TOO SOON...if i know what was set up from episode 1-4...i don't need a reminder for a filler 5...let the story stretch out a bit.
* Less dramatic posing and showing off potential toys, more focus on characters. You're going to need to bring in an older audience too, and they're not as likely to be wowed just by pretty lights and explosions.hey...Americans love collecting figures/toys to a series they grow to like. by some point you'd have your favorite chara, your favorite gundam, and model operation base.

[Lynxara]

I do feel the need to point out that the character designr for Bebop did designs for a Gundam series, 08th MS Team, which was probably the best-received of the UC Gundam series over here. I can't see a realistic art style like Monster's working for such an unrealistic series as Gundam, though.

[HellCat]

its seems like its talking about "we want all americans to be into the Gundam stories". if they are aiming for mainstream they are going to have a hard time.
why not be satisfied with what you can get? and focus on fans bringing in others?


Because "what they can get" is losing the company large sums of money?
As for hoping fans would bring in more fans, again, that was one of the aims of GOUF...instead we got about a billion existing fans who wanted nothing more than to tell us "Freedom RAWKS!" and "SD is so gay!!". SEED was initially supposed to be a show that worked for both markets, but Bandai Japan scrapped that idea when they saw how big a success it could be in it's home market.


I do feel the need to point out that the character designr for Bebop did designs for a Gundam series, 08th MS Team, which was probably the best-received of the UC Gundam series over here.
Julia's true fate- she joined the Feddies!

[Bunai]

Because "what they can get" is losing the company large sums of money?
As for hoping fans would bring in more fans, again, that was one of the aims of GOUF...instead we got about a billion existing fans who wanted nothing more than to tell us "Freedom RAWKS!" and "SD is so gay!!". SEED was initially supposed to be a show that worked for both markets, but Bandai Japan scrapped that idea when they saw how big a success it could be in it's home market.i figured that. falling back to Japan market has its flaws too.
they should do less stereotype of what they THINK countries outside of Japan want and really focus....
which i got from the article.

"well...only Japanese viewers understand...so blah blah blah"
people do feel insulted when you think they won't understand something.

[HellCat]

i figured that. falling back to Japan market has its flaws too.
they should do less stereotype of what they THINK countries outside of Japan want and really focus....
which i got from the article.

"well...only Japanese viewers understand...so blah blah blah"
people do feel insulted when you think they won't understand something.
SD certainly showed they haven't quite got a clear idea of America. Bell Wood, anyone? Since then they've done better research. They have a whole new split of the company just for that and they held a select range of focus groups at Comic Con which apparently worked rather well.
I still don't think he's trying to insult anyone. Sorry if I've given a bad impression of my own views on American politics in this thread but it is close to the truth. In a nation that likes to use phrases like "One nation under God" and "continuing battle against evil" in the current political climate, a foreign show saying "You know, our enemy are human beings too.." kinda raises an issue certain people don't really want to address (again, I know not all Americans are like that and I don't want this thread getting lost in a heated political debate). Then of course there's the fact that some people just plain don't like "those Chinese cartoons" fullstop. If people can't even look past the art style and very basic concept, then what can ya do?

[Duke]

I do feel the need to point out that the character designr for Bebop did designs for a Gundam series, 08th MS Team,Actually, he did 0083 as well. And was the animation director for 0080 and F91.

[Lynxara]

Man, never would've thought 08th MS and 0083 were the same guy just to look at it.

[Dark Fact]

When I hear people call japanese animation "Chinese cartoons" (and believe me, I've heard it a LOT back in the 90's), I just want to smack them. They gotta seriously do some research!

Hellcat, during World War II, didn't the japanese then also incorporate themselves as the "good guys" and the Americans as the "bad guys"?

[Space Cadet]

An "American" Gundam show will basically need...

* No J-Pop. Orchestral scores instead.
* A more realistic art style. Cowboy Bebop or Monster instead of big-eyes and everyone-looks-the-same.
* More variety in action. People do notice when they see the same clips of stuff blowing up over and over...
* More clip shows. *sigh* Ideally, you'd have a clip show airing in a different time slot so as not to disrupt the flow of the story, which would turn people off real quick... but one major problem with Gundam is that if you're a series newcomer who misses one crucial episode early on, you'll be completely thrown off. And chances are you won't keep watching.
* Less dramatic posing and showing off potential toys, more focus on characters. You're going to need to bring in an older audience too, and they're not as likely to be wowed just by pretty lights and explosions.
It probably would also help that the main characters be young adults similar to the 08th MS Team and not whiny teenagers who can control the most powerful mechas. It worked for Wing because Gundam was new to U.S. television, but when audiences see the same concept rehashed over and over again, then they get turned off.

[HellCat]

When I hear people call japanese animation "Chinese cartoons" (and believe me, I've heard it a LOT back in the 90's), I just want to smack them. They gotta seriously do some research!

Hellcat, during World War II, didn't the japanese then also incorporate themselves as the "good guys" and the Americans as the "bad guys"?
Where did I say I was painting Japan as some better society? I'm just offering fair comment on how Gundam's main ideals could clash with certain ideas which have strong support in America. EVERY nation across the world has people who think their country can do no wrong and I haven't claimed otherwise, just that it's an idea which seems to carry alot of weight in certain parts of the US.

[Duke]

When I hear people call japanese animation "Chinese cartoons" (and believe me, I've heard it a LOT back in the 90's), I just want to smack them. They gotta seriously do some research!People still do that nowadays, though not as much. My old roommate's cousin said that some of them were "Chinese soap operas." Of course, she hates "kiddie stuff" like Pokémon yet loves Jimmy Neutron and Spongebob.

Also, this would actually be the best time to air one of those "war-is-bad" shows now that so many Americans hate war. The average American citizen's view on war has changed a lot in the past few years.

[Dark Fact]

Where did I say I was painting Japan as some better society? I'm just offering fair comment on how Gundam's main ideals could clash with certain ideas which have strong support in America. EVERY nation across the world has people who think their country can do no wrong and I haven't claimed otherwise, just that it's an idea which seems to carry alot of weight in certain parts of the US.
Don't get excited. I thought that was what you were implying.

[HellCat]

Don't get excited. I thought that was what you were implying.
...Who's getting excited? My response was perfectly calm.

[rubberchicken]

I do feel the need to point out that the character designr for Bebop did designs for a Gundam series, 08th MS Team, which was probably the best-received of the UC Gundam series over here. I can't see a realistic art style like Monster's working for such an unrealistic series as Gundam, though. Mostly I'm just saying they should move towards more realistic appearances for the characters. SEED's crew (and, to a lesser extent, those of a couple of other shows like Wing and X) pretty much embodies the anime stereotype of prettyboys (and girls) with huge eyes who all look much the same. Although a couple of Monster's minor characters do look alike (Heckel has been reused about four times by the fortieth episode) for the most part the cast has plenty of differentiation.

Thing is, a mainstream American audience doesn't like to feel like it's watching one of those infernal Japanese cartoons. A completely serious animated show is enough of a gamble as it is without Astro Boy character designs, incomprehensible pop music, and constant toy plugs cutting down the audience still further.

[The Clown Prince]

Speaking of North American Gundam business, I've looked everywhere, but has there been any new info on a Region 1 DVD release date for Gundam Seed Destiny Volume 1 and beyond?

With the Gundam Seed Movie III having come out November 22nd, I thought that as that date approached (or afterward), Bandai would announce Seed Destiny for January as has been thought. Does anyone know if that date may be soon?

The Clown Prince

[Lynxara]

Thing is, a mainstream American audience doesn't like to feel like it's watching one of those infernal Japanese cartoons. A completely serious animated show is enough of a gamble as it is without Astro Boy character designs, incomprehensible pop music, and constant toy plugs cutting down the audience still further.
I don't think Bandai wants to hit a "mainstream" audience, so much as they want another show to hit over here and have Gundam Wing's impact. Gundam Wing was not quite a mainstream series but built up a pretty big cult following, and also managed to appeal to people who generally liked anime. A bit part of this appeal was the pretty designs, the fact that the TV dub kept in the incomprehensible pop music, and the constant toy plugs that were embodied in the robots. Even when the show was dealing in ridiculous angst, it felt like fun, light entertainment. A hyper-realistic series would probably be too heavy and hard to watch to hit the core anime fans, and that just leaves you where Gundam is already, appealing to a very niche group of anime fans.

Frankly I think what a Gundam series made for Americans would need to do is downplay the war story aspect and reduce it to set dressing, as in Wing. Combat sequences in Wing were absolutely ludicrous by military standards, but made for some enthralling superheroic action. Bringing in actual, serious military storylines only seems to basically break the American audience's sense of disbelief unless it's handled with something like the style of an American war movie (as 08th MS Team did).

Instead, go the other direction and put more emphasis on the machines as elite units that mow down huge numbers of inferior foes before having tense duels with each other. Make the war a mere excuse for the action, and the subject of 'meaningful' conversations between characters. Give the designs enough detail to feel "real", but also give them flamboyant designs with a sense of personality and easily understood symbolism behind them. The show needs to be serious enough, but not so serious that it betrays who innately ridiculous some of the Gundam premises tend to be to begin with. It basically has to be a fun watch that grants the illusion of something substantial behind it.

This is not what Gundam fans would like. This is frankly not what I would like. But I believe it would sell like mad if Bandai made it with the right staffers in key positions and some simple, appealing characters to populate the story.

[Duke]

Speaking of North American Gundam business, I've looked everywhere, but has there been any new info on a Region 1 DVD release date for Gundam Seed Destiny Volume 1 and beyond?

With the Gundam Seed Movie III having come out November 22nd, I thought that as that date approached (or afterward), Bandai would announce Seed Destiny for January as has been thought. Does anyone know if that date may be soon?

The Clown PrinceNope. No news on Destiny. Maybe when Bandai shows their March .pdf.

[Botman]

In a nation that likes to use phrases like "One nation under God" and "continuing battle against evil" in the current political climate, a foreign show saying "You know, our enemy are human beings too.." kinda raises an issue certain people don't really want to address... Personally, I find it hypocritical of the Japanese company saying that we can't deal with that, when they themselves didn't bother to try to humanize a single non-extended/non-defecting member of the Earth Alliance.

As for the future, it's obvious to me that with todays TV Standards, it will be impossible to air a "traditional" Gundam series on TV unless aired on Adult Swim, or if it's a new series written/animated with American S&P in mind.

I believe that if SEED received the same content standards as even the edited version of Gundam Wing had, it would have kept it's 10:30 timeslot, and would have been at least mildly successful. Basically, if you're trying to air a serious war story, and you're not even allowed to show real guns anymore, you have major problems, and need to reconsider what you try to push for TV.

[HellCat]

Personally, I find it hypocritical of the Japanese company saying that we can't deal with that, when they themselves didn't bother to try to humanize a single non-extended/non-defecting member of the Earth Alliance.


That's the fault of Fukuda and co, not Japan as a whole. Just about every other Gundam production tries to paint a fair picture of each side. Even Wing, where the enemy was little more than cannon fodder, had characters like Noventa who showed that the Alliance were tired of war too.

[Gatomon41]

That's the fault of Fukuda and co, not Japan as a whole. Just about every other Gundam production tries to paint a fair picture of each side. Even Wing, where the enemy was little more than cannon fodder, had characters like Noventa who showed that the Alliance were tired of war too.
Brag- I mean Fukuda really droped the ball by making way it so one sided. SEED Destiny might turn off a bunch of fans.

Gundam should just stick to the Fair portryal of Both sides. That was one of the things that appealed to me in the first place.

[Lynxara]

Hey, the Earth Alliance has sympathetic characters!

... in ASTRAY and the MSV.

*sigh*

[HellCat]

Hey, the Earth Alliance has sympathetic characters!

... in ASTRAY and the MSV.

*sigh*
There was Haliburton (SEED's General Revil-type, who pushed for EA MS) but of course he becomes a victim of "Lone noble high ranker who quickly perishes because he's actually willing to get out there unlike his peers".

[KuwabaraTheMan]

We did have sympathetic characters on two sides. The problem is that Destiny had 3 sides. Fukuda essentially destroyed the Alliance, and moved Neo to Orb while killing the extended.

Keep Neo with the Alliance, and keep Sting around till the end and give him characterization, that should fix a big problem with the Alliance getting shafted. 1 or 2 other characterized Alliance members woulddn't have hurt either.

[HellCat]

We did have sympathetic characters on two sides. The problem is that Destiny had 3 sides.

Keep Neo with the Alliance, and keep Sting around till the end and give him characterization, that should fix a big problem with the Alliance getting shafted.
Oh no you don't! *hits discussion of Destiny's major players with a shovel* You will not claim another thread!

[Mek]

The main reason why Gundam's fanbase didn't hold up after 'Wing' was because... GW's fanbase is mostly horny pre-teens who like to fantasize about hot manlove rather than the deep story. And since none of the other guys in the other Gundam series didn't look like pretty boys, well...

... You can tell I loathe Gundam Wing fangirls, can't you? XD;;;;

[KuwabaraTheMan]

The main reason why Gundam's fanbase didn't hold up after 'Wing' was because... GW's fanbase is mostly horny pre-teens who like to fantasize about hot manlove rather than the deep story. And since none of the other guys in the other Gundam series didn't look like pretty boys, well...

... You can tell I loathe Gundam Wing fangirls, can't you? XD;;;;
Don't we all?:)

[HellCat]

The main reason why Gundam's fanbase didn't hold up after 'Wing' was because... GW's fanbase is mostly horny pre-teens who like to fantasize about hot manlove rather than the deep story. And since none of the other guys in the other Gundam series didn't look like pretty boys, well...

... You can tell I loathe Gundam Wing fangirls, can't you? XD;;;;
I hear ya, but at the same time I've seen a number of these same kinds of fans eagerly stating the reason people don't like Wing is because they aren't intelligent enough to get how deep it is......reminds me of that old high school movie/TV show gag with a jock having a swimsuit magazine snuck inside his textbook.

[GWOtaku]

posted by Mekairinek:

The main reason why Gundam's fanbase didn't hold up after 'Wing' was because... GW's fanbase is mostly horny pre-teens who like to fantasize about hot manlove rather than the deep story. Bullcrap.

I'll tell you what, you want to talk about elitism? The people that aren't content to simply not like the show and regurgitate this retarded stereotype to bash its fans so they can feel all good and superior for liking "real Gundam" or whatever are five tmes as arrogant, close-minded, and intolerable than the most hardcore Wing fan, whose worst possible offense is reading too much into a TV show.


And since none of the other guys in the other Gundam series didn't look like pretty boys, well... Gundam Seed certainly had that and that didn't make it succeed on television.

[rubberchicken]

Calm down.

[Lynxara]

Gundam Wing fangirls either really got into Gundam SEED or felt there were too many strong het relationships to build an interesting doujin/fanfic scene out of. However, the fangirls - although a strong online component - weren't what made GW such a success. Gundam Wing supported a full merchandise line including lunchboxes and school stationary, indicating that it was something young boys and teens liked. That's the audience Bandai needs back.

Personally, I think SEED underperformed on TV because the dub was simply terrible, and much of what drew people into Wing is that it one of the first reasonably faithful anime dubs on television. When SEED confronts the audience with the ridiculous disco guns after that? Don't be surprised when they want to watch something else.

[HellCat]

Gundam Wing fangirls either really got into Gundam SEED or felt there were too many strong het relationships to build an interesting doujin/fanfic scene out of. However, the fangirls - although a strong online component - weren't what made GW such a success. Gundam Wing supported a full merchandise line including lunchboxes and school stationary, indicating that it was something young boys and teens liked. That's the audience Bandai needs back.

Personally, I think SEED underperformed on TV because the dub was simply terrible, and much of what drew people into Wing is that it one of the first reasonably faithful anime dubs on television. When SEED confronts the audience with the ridiculous disco guns after that? Don't be surprised when they want to watch something else.
In general, there's not much drive from Bandai America to push the franchise any more other than the whip cracks of their Japanese masters. With Wing, Bandai had a good solid brand starting up. Then of course Bandai Japan had to get cocky and expected a 20 year old show with notable differences and no cultural connection to make the brand even bigger. The story of Gundam in the US is riddled with harshness and double dealings.

[GWOtaku]

I agree...things might have gone better if more recent shows had followed Wing, and then the older ones could have been brought in on the momentum. As-is, the big question is even if the decision is made to get serious about relaunching the franchise in the U.S, do they have the material to do it? These are the realistic possibilities:

-Gundam X
-Turn A
-GS Destiny
-As yet unannounced show to come in 2006/7
-Zeta Trilogy
-Possible U.S-targeted series

If X and Turn A are going to be put out there then they'd better do it soon, because a few more years and they'll be as old as Gundam Wing is right now (10 years now--I feel old), and we know how Cartoon Network and the like are about older programing. It could be they're already passed up.

If so, already this basically leaves us with the extremely new material. Destiny is all around a more entertaining show then Gundam SEED and could be more successful, particularly if (a) a better job on the dub and (b) less absurd censorship could be managed--two big if's, admittedly. Then, if the 2006/7 series is another CE story, you have a good follow-up for when Destiny is over if it does well enough.

Of course if the 2006/7 series is something fresh then that's an opportunity to launch something entirely new.

Bandai needs to license, dub, and bring over the Zeta movies ASAP. Its a very good story and the new footage for these movies is fantastic, it would be stupid to not take advantage of them while they're still brand new and fresh. I want/expect the Zeta Trilogy released in 2006.

This might sound like Otakuism but I really, really don't want a Gundam produced specifically for a U.S. audience. I strongly worry that it would basically become a GI Joe Sigma Six affair, where its produced in Japan but is clearly aimed and "dumbed down" for the younger audiences to easily understand. If you kill the realism and the tragic-drama-of-war aspect of a Gundam show, well, you just don't have much of a Gundam show anymore. Its kind of like what Lynxara talked about earlier, except that in my opinion what we'd get would be something like Gundam Wing action combined with the dialogue you'd hear in something like, I don't know, DICE. That would suck. Do I think there can be a good Gundam story that would appeal to Americans, sure. Look at Wing. Do I trust American writers to write that kind of story under American direction? Not for two minutes. I'd like to think this is based on judgement rather than bias--just about every anime created or rewritten to appeal to a "U.S. audience" for television has (a) not been good and/or (b) inappropiately written to appeal only to 6-11 demographics. The only possible way I could trust it if a Mark Simmons were put in charge, in other words someone who really gets Gundam and knows what its all about and could treat the project with respect.

If I were Bandai I'd almost be tempted to release all the older Gundam first so more newer productions will be in reserve for a sustained effort. But Destiny is being released in 2006 so that's that, we're playing it as it goes. The pacing is about right to keep a fairly steady stream going, although if CE is lackluster then its going to take a new timeline to kickstart things again. In which case a new successful marketing drive for Gundam would be a fair ways off.

[HellCat]

The series they're working on right now (the one they keep throwing cryptic hints about) and the series intended for the US are likely one and the same. They held select focus groups at Comic-Con for this, amongst other things to try and crack a formula for a show that could please both markets. From what I know, I'll say in my personal opinion what they're cooking up has potential for a good reception but seems catered more to the Japanese side of things.

As for the actual solo suggestion of a US targetted Gundam- trust me, that was a project which was put in the hands of people who would have done it right. It's Bandai Japan/Sunrise's own folly that they chose to ignore it because they got actual realistic suggestions and not more yes men bull crap.

[Conan-san]

all I want them to do is Retacon the last half of SeeD, cause quitely clearly someone had a deathwish on the whole idea of Seed's sequal.

And by that I meen "with a moive", like how they more or less redid Gundam 0079 with it's trillogy.

[HellCat]

all I want them to do is Retacon the last half of SeeD, cause quitely clearly someone had a deathwish on the whole idea of Seed's sequal.

And by that I meen "with a moive", like how they more or less redid Gundam 0079 with it's trillogy.
MSG the TV series and MSG the trilogy aren't all that different. All that's really changed is filler/monster of the week type stuff isn't show (some even argue that it still happened, just off camera), the order of certain events were shuffled around, at least one villain death is retconned and Tomino got rid of some of the more toy forced ideas like the G-Fighter and keeping the mostly useless Guntank post-Jaburo.

[Conan-san]

My point exactly, get rid of all that crap that was pure fanboyisum (!Kira, the whole level down thing for Shinn and Ray at the last fight thing, making Neo = Mu and the whole ending which basicly said:


"Here is Shinn Asuka, we hated him from episode 1 so we basicly pissed on his life, now watch him cry. hahahaha, sissy boy who only had; his girlfirend killed (Good reasion or not, she's still six feet under), friends switch sides more times than most people could care to count, his mentor type (athrun) go and desert him and his cause and everything else byond that, what an absoulte 'sissy'."


Now, the fanboy actualy wanted that ending is sorely asking for it.

[HellCat]

My point exactly, get rid of all that crap that was pure fanboyisum (!Kira, the whole level down thing for Shinn and Ray at the last fight thing, making Neo = Mu and the whole ending which basicly said:


"Here is Shinn Asuka, we hated him from episode 1 so we basicly pissed on his life, now watch him cry. hahahaha, sissy boy who only had; his girlfirend killed (Good reasion or not, she's still six feet under), friends switch sides more times than most people could care to count, his mentor type (athrun) go and desert him and his cause and everything else byond that, what an absoulte 'sissy'."


Now, the fanboy actualy wanted that ending is sorely asking for it.








...How is that your point exactly? The MSG trilogy is a condensed retelling of MSG, not a whole new edit. The one death removed (M'Quve) doesn't really change anything. The G-Fighter and Guntank whilst removed are just replaced with the more logical Core Booster and a second Guncannon which aren't that far off from what they replace (heck, when Sayla drifts out of the Core Booster near movie III's finale, the footage shows the G-Fighter drifting off. What you're suggesting is less like the MSG trilogy and more like The Phantom Edit.

[GWOtaku]

Yeah. The only real different thing the trilogy did was depict Char's escape, and that wasn't even a change just an add-on so fans could be satisfied that he made it from the final battle alive. And thus we were set up for the famous Quattro persona in Zeta.

[Conan-san]

...How is that your point exactly? The MSG trilogy is a condensed retelling of MSG, not a whole new edit. The one death removed (M'Quve) doesn't really change anything. The G-Fighter and Guntank whilst removed are just replaced with the more logical Core Booster and a second Guncannon which aren't that far off from what they replace (heck, when Sayla drifts out of the Core Booster near movie III's finale, the footage shows the G-Fighter drifting off. What you're suggesting is less like the MSG trilogy and more like The Phantom Edit. Ah, so I see, my bad.

And I dunno, has anyone actualy attempted a phantom edit of an anime before?

And would it do SeeD's fantasticly horrid ending any good?

If so, as one devious advisor to a certain dictator to be has said on many an occasion: "I have a cunning plan".

[pinsher6]

One idea could be seriously thinking about a Gundam series for the US market. Of course, that series would have to be done so it can be reimported back to Japan. Gundam has a marvelous worldview, but bringing a series created in Japan with little North American style is difficult to sell.

:eek: I hope it's not something where the "US" is the good guys just to supposedly placate Americans.
i agree. Gundam Seed is full of Japanese feeling. its view of world is just the view of world. far different from western thinking. but i do like it anyway...

[Bunai]

the dubbing was fine. it was the story that was too typical for me.
it feels insulting that people think Americans won't get the story:crying:

[HellCat]

the dubbing was fine. it was the story that was too typical for me.
it feels insulting that people think Americans won't get the story:crying:Well, it feels insulting that America thinks it has to run the world...

[Gatomon41]

Well, it feels insulting that America thinks it has to run the world...
When you become the hegemon, all the world becomes you.

I think someone once told me that.

I think the Japanese Cultural point of view is fine. Adds a unqiueness to Gundam other SF shows wouldn't have.

However, when the show becomes too commentary, the show loses something and becomes no better than some writers ranting platform.

[HellCat]

When you become the hegemon, all the world becomes you.

I think someone once told me that.

I think the Japanese Cultural point of view is fine. Adds a unqiueness to Gundam other SF shows wouldn't have.

However, when the show becomes too commentary, the show loses something and becomes no better than some writers ranting platform.Commentary can be good so long as it has balance. Fukuda didn't really. He took the CE state of America/UK/etc (the Atlantic Federation) and made them the complete "Join us or DIE!" type, whilst as usual casting Orb (which is said to be CE's Japan equivelant) as the nation that knows best for everyone with some minor conflict so it couldn't do anything for most of the series.

[Gatomon41]

Commentary can be good so long as it has balance. Fukuda didn't really. He took the CE state of America/UK/etc (the Atlantic Federation) and made them the complete "Join us or DIE!" type, whilst as usual casting Orb (which is said to be CE's Japan equivelant) as the nation that knows best for everyone with some minor conflict so it couldn't do anything for most of the series.
When the creator's vision becomes predominant, the show suffers.

Happened to ST: The Next Generation's first season. Gene Rodenberry focused more on his Utopian vision instead of good story telling, and ended up with a mediocre season.

I would like to see the Next Gundam series making fun of Fudaka's unbalenced commentary. :p

[Lynxara]

Wow, this thread got all kinds of interesting. Shame I was busy working through much of it. Now for a belated reply....


I agree...things might have gone better if more recent shows had followed Wing, and then the older ones could have been brought in on the momentum. The problem there is that before SEED was made, your other options for modern series were Gundam X, which would've done okay before the horrendous drop in production values in the last 13 episodes, and Turn-A, which I'm still not sure the American market is really ready for. Going back to MSG wasn't a terrible idea, but I don't think Bandai thought it through very well. Let's say that MSG and Zeta somehow did well despite being rather dry, meticulous series - what were they going to do next, try and get people to accept ZZ?

I'm just not sure there's any launch plan Bandai could've used to get Americans to love Gundam the way Japanese fans do. The cruel fact of the matter is that much of Gundam is interesting in parts, but very little of it is actually a good watch on its own. Now, this is one thing if you're close to the centers of production and can have fun yelling at the creators to stop making crap. But as part of a secondary audience trapped by language and cultural barriers? Perhaps 10 years after the fact? It gets kind of hard to make yourself care. I'm not sure I'd care about SEED if it didn't happen to be the franchise I could follow as it originally aired.

Gundam, particularly classic Gundam, just seems a bit incompatible with the way Americans watch anime. Americans prize cutting-edge visual style in anime first and foremost, and often don't give story a chance if the interesting visuals aren't there. When it comes to plots in anime, Americans tend to prefer stuff that's abstract and artistic, or familiar and clearly influenced by American films. Gundam is very rarely any of these things; it's fiercely, almost inscrutably Japanese in tone, content, and aesthetic. I'm glad it's available in any form in the US, but to some extent I think it will always be serving a niche, hardcore audience over here.


Bandai needs to license, dub, and bring over the Zeta movies ASAP. Its a very good story and the new footage for these movies is fantastic, it would be stupid to not take advantage of them while they're still brand new and fresh. I want/expect the Zeta Trilogy released in 2006. I loved, loved, loved the Zeta movies. I want to establish this so nobody thinks I'm not a fan of the marvelous job Tomino and the other Zeta staffers have done in re-creating this classic series. When these movies hit the US I will be first in line for the DVDs. Now, that said...

I don't think the Zeta movies will go over well at all in the US, at least not any better than MSG did. While the new footage is indescribably gorgeous, the old footage is... well, old. The way it clashes with the new stuff is at points painfully ugly, especially when they do multiple transitions from old to new footage within the course of a single scene. I think Americans would be all over Zeta if it was fully reanimated, but since it's partially reanimated... I think it would ultimately be rejected by the mainstream of fandom.


This might sound like Otakuism but I really, really don't want a Gundam produced specifically for a U.S. audience. ... Its kind of like what Lynxara talked about earlier, except that in my opinion what we'd get would be something like Gundam Wing action combined with the dialogue you'd hear in something like, I don't know, DICE. That would suck. Do I think there can be a good Gundam story that would appeal to Americans, sure. Look at Wing. Do I trust American writers to write that kind of story under American direction? Not for two minutes. This is exactly why the concept of American-made Gundam worries me. When you have Japanese creators producing for an American audience, you get DICE at worst and IGPX at best - products that are mediocre compared to what Japanese creators make for a Japanese audience. It just seems very hard for Japanese creators to take a lot of pride in their work when they know it's primarily for a far-away audience they can't really communicate with. I imagine American creators would feel the same if they made something primarily meant to be shown outside of America.

To make the show really work for Japanese and Americans, I think it would have to be a true co-production with both Japanese and American key staffers on board. I will go a step farther and say that I truly believe that if you got Mitsuo Fukuda, pried his wife away from him, and locked him in a room with Genndy Tartakovsky and a good interpreter for a week, they'd emerge with a treatment for the weirdest, wildest, most wonderfully enthusiastic and dynamic Gundam series ever produced.

Regardless, I feel that a Gundam series made for Americans would have to incorporate both American animation techniques and American writing styles alongside a Japanese influence. This would be a hard and expensive thing to make, and I'm not sure Bandai has the gumption for it even if Sunrise wants to play ball.

[Wounded_Dragon]

I'm not entirely convinced a Gundam show NEEDS to have the American audience in mind specifically (vaguely is okay) when being made. Gundam Wing was popular enough. Even Gundam SEED Destiny's problem isn't the political commentary but more the loose internal consistency.

Really, Bandai's already taken the most important step (if we're interpreting this right) in realizing that they can't just make any ole crap that the JP audience loves and expect the NA audience to love it. This isn't just about the story. GS and GSD have been popular but they've also been integrated with music (imo too well. Neither show needed that many OPs and EDs) that was sold to increase popularity. Also with manga and other merchandise. And of course, JP has a huge built-in audience. None of that infrastructure exists in NA (they're not even TRYING to bring any music over, except for Complete Bests).


These are my feeling on rough guidelines that any Gundam made with NA in mind could use (and taken from my posts at that other board). Unlike others, I don't think many specifics are needed in the story area.

Mechanics:
Smaller casts and lower counts of Gundams all around. Lower the variety of grunt units on both sides. 52 episodes, with a definite dividing point between episodes 26 and 27, allowing for two COMPLETE NA seasons. Concentrate on a good OP and skimp on the ED, as they get scrunched/trashed for NA broadcasts anyway for the most part. If the JP side frowns on 52 episodes the obvious solution: two clipshow episodes that can be cut for the Japanese airing. That's right, episodes that are NA exclusives, even if they are clipshows (about bloody time!)

Story:
Probably a male lead (sorry guys, marketing research= male lead). Less whining overall please. Try to cut down on insane girlfriends. Have a story plotted out ahead of time. Some form of war drama BUUTTT, it must not get bogged down in making both sides equally wrong. Honestly I think that's where UC and UC variants disconnect for the NA audience at large. The protagonists (not necessarily their side, but definitely the protagonists) need to be portrayed as the good guys for the most part.

Merchandise:
If they're keeping Power Rangers in mind as they aim a series towards the US, they definitely want to consider a very small cast. In recent years, PR has consisted primarily of action figures of the rangers and variants. Which necessitates a SMALL cast. I'm not sure what they'd do for Gundam with the 40 dollar pricepoint that the Megazord occupies in PR. Maybe a scaled down electronic 1/60? They might also want to consider focusing on the cast (toy-wise) and making the stories cast-centric instead of MS-centric. Gundam W pulled off having action figures of the mobile suits because they seemed to have personality, something UC and its variants generally don't have (no, being cool doesn't count as having personality).

[HellCat]

A large problem is that Bandai/Sunrise want to transfer Gundam's exact cultural success to the US. They want it held by the average American on the same level as Star Wars or Star Trek. The problem is, you can't just take a 20+ year old backlog of shows and expect that success in the foreign market. People can accept things like the old Star Trek and Star Wars because they were made at a time when standards/scripts/effects etc were like that. They're rooted in culture. Taking a poorly animated series from 1979 that most Americans have never heard of and expecting them to go crazy for it (ESPECIALLY after airing a better animated and different styled more recent entry from the franchise) is crazy. There's no nostalgia for the 20+ market and kids wants flashy animation and "ZOMG no consequences!!" action and 'plot'. That last point is kinda sad. If you look at the behaviour of the market Bandai America would most need to target to make Gundam a success, the morals of the shows fly right over their head. An Amuro and Kira type is not their sort of preferred lead, it's a Shinn. Who cares if the enemy are humans like you? Who cares if you've accidently slaughtered innocents? Who cares that you can never go back to your simple life? All that matter is you get to pilot a cool Gundam and pwn some enemies with as much destruction as possible and zero angst.

[Space Cadet]

Mechanics:
Smaller casts and lower counts of Gundams all around. Lower the variety of grunt units on both sides. 52 episodes, with a definite dividing point between episodes 26 and 27, allowing for two COMPLETE NA seasons. Concentrate on a good OP and skimp on the ED, as they get scrunched/trashed for NA broadcasts anyway for the most part. If the JP side frowns on 52 episodes the obvious solution: two clipshow episodes that can be cut for the Japanese airing. That's right, episodes that are NA exclusives, even if they are clipshows (about bloody time!)

I agree with the smaller cast. They should focus on one unit during the war and follow their path. This allows the audience to get to know the characters and allow for good character development.

[KuwabaraTheMan]

An Amuro and Kira type is not their sort of preferred lead, it's a Shinn. Who cares if the enemy are humans like you? Who cares if you've accidently slaughtered innocents? Who cares that you can never go back to your simple life? All that matter is you get to pilot a cool Gundam and pwn some enemies with as much destruction as possible and zero angst.
Er, what? Are you just trying to incite people or did you seriously miss like half of SEED Destiny? Did you forget about Shinn being against the Destiny Plan and only going along with it after a lot of manipulation from Rey and Gilbert? Did you forget about how Shinn was the anti-war character? What about how ****** he felt when he thought he had killed Athrun? Shinn was being convinced by Athrun before Rey stepped in and interfered, after all.

Just because Shinn didn't abandon his own country and the drop of a hat doesn't mean he doesn't care and has zero angst. He was just a lot more driven then other Gundam characters because he had a legitimate reason to hate Orb and the Alliance. Kira killed every single person who was ever close to Shinn, and he should just up and become friends with them, and abandon Luna, Rey, and the Minerva, right?

I can't see how Shinn qualifies as 'zero angst', with the deaths of both his family and Stellar. Not to mention the whole moment where he and Luna were together after he thought he killed Athrun and Meyrin. Seemed a lot more angsty then Kira to me...

Of course, I don't know why you mentioned Shinn when saying "Heero" would have made much more sense and actually fit.

[HellCat]

I meant to say a Shinn-type. You're right that a Heero-type would be just as an effective way of saying it but please, let's drop the constant debates over Shinn. I for one am getting sick of the fact that should anyone even breath a word of bad against him we get attacked for simplifying the situation. When even the creator himself says the character got screwed up and screwed over, then's not much more else to say.
The reason I specifically used Shinn as an example was because he was the character rooted for by most of the audience I'm talking about when GOUF was still open. Give me some credit, please.

[KuwabaraTheMan]

I'm fine with you and others not liking Shinn. I dislike people saying untrue things about him, and I was pretty confused about your statements, because they really didn't seem very descriptive of Shinn, but more of Heero.

If you don't like Shinn, that's fine. I accept your opinion, I just don't like people claiming that Shinn was some pro-war guy who had no justification, or something like that.

Whatever, its just a cartoon, nothing to get worked up over at any rate.

[HellCat]

Earlier this week I e-mailed Bandai UK about the chances of releasing any more Gundam, specifically SD (always helps to have a back up plan)...I got a rather blunt reply back stating what I already knew, that they aren't releasing any Gundam in the UK right now. I swear, Bandai UK are one of the least effective branches....I guess outside of Beez's DVDs we aren't going to see any life over here for a while.

[Conan-san]

Earlier this week I e-mailed Bandai UK about the chances of releasing any more Gundam, specifically SD (always helps to have a back up plan)...I got a rather blunt reply back stating what I already knew, that they aren't releasing any Gundam in the UK right now. I swear, Bandai UK are one of the least effective branches....I guess outside of Beez's DVDs we aren't going to see any life over here for a while.I agree, but I've made it policy not to lump Beez with Bandai UK, personaly.

But I knew we're in trouble when we got stuff from UC without UC airing, that was only going to end in disaster...

Anyway, I still need to get a move on as far as Seed is concerned (might not bother with Desteny, seeing as where that went) with anyluck, the other eurpoean countries will make up for my nonbuying it.

[HellCat]

I agree, but I've made it policy not to lump Beez with Bandai UK, personaly.

But I knew we're in trouble when we got stuff from UC without UC airing, that was only going to end in disaster...

Anyway, I still need to get a move on as far as Seed is concerned (might not bother with Desteny, seeing as where that went) with anyluck, the other eurpoean countries will make up for my nonbuying it.

Well, they are a different department but at the end of the day they're Bandai Europe's DVD division.

[Conan-san]

Well, they are a different department but at the end of the day they're Bandai Europe's DVD division.Which sucks cause quite celarly Bandai need a sivere kick in the arse as far as Europe is concerned.

And Beez doesn't need the repremanding.

[HellCat]

Which sucks cause quite celarly Bandai need a sivere kick in the arse as far as Europe is concerned.

And Beez doesn't need the repremanding.

Yes, it's suprising...come on, Bandai Japan! There's a country willing to let you have your way with them!