DC. Vs. Marvel: How would you do it?

[Dark Knight]

I know this is getting a bit off topic but it ultimately discusses JL characters. A recent post about JL vs. X-men Evolution reminded me of the age old question. Of course I believe that the JL heroes could waste the teenage x-men of the WB, but the big guns from the comics is another story. I've always wanted WB to do Marvel shows like the DC ones, and maybe God willing someday we can have a DC/Marvel Adventures animated series (in the afterlife most likely.) Of course there'd have to be some big movie where everybody fought each other for whatever cliched transdimentional reason so who would you want to duke it out and how would it turn out?
Here are some of my ideas:

Batman vs. Wolverine:

I like Bats a million times more than wolvie but they're both so popular and they both have serious attitudes it would be awesome to see them go head to head. However the Dark Knight would ultimately do something hyper clever, like lure Wolvie to some conveineintly close by scrap metal yard and snag him under one of those giant magnets using his adumantium skeleton against him. Victory for Batman!

Green Lantern vs. Invisible Woman:

Both these heroes generate powerful forcefeilds. Lantern's ring can make more varying shapes (even if John Stewart doesnt utilize it the way Kyle does) but Sue Richards has that extra advantage of being...well invisible. So I think this one could go either way.

Superman vs. Captain America

They're both icons of truth justice and the american way. It'd be a fun fight but Supes can do everything Cap can do (minus the sheild slinging) and more. I love Cap probably more than Superman but he's way out gunned.

Wonder Woman vs. Rogue

These two are pretty evenly matched. Both are incredibly strong and fast. Wondy might be slightly higher on the stats list but only slightly. Plus she has a lot of exposed flesh on her outfit. All Rogue has to do is give her the slightest touch and shes got the upper hand. Ultimately the Amazing Amazon would fall to the X-men's southern belle.

Flash vs. Spider-Man

Most people might have flash go against quicksilver but thats so predictable and who does that leave spidey to fight? This is one that ive wrestled with a lot. Flash is probably faster than any spider sense but Peter Parker is a whole lot smarter than Wally West. Ultimately i dont know. It all depends on whether or not Flash would be able to vibrate through webs, but seeing Flash get stuck in that alien goop in "Secret Origins" leads me to think he can't. So i'd give it to Spidey tentatively.

Martian Manhunter vs. Pheonix

The only person I can think of who'd maybe be a match for J'onn is Jean Grey. Perhaps many of you are familiar with the wimpy jean from movies and TV who faints all the time but if you've read the comics you know that Jean is hard core. In a match of Telepathy Jean would definately turn Martian manhunters brain inside out, but as far as everything else goes Im not sure Jeans Telekenisis would protect her from everything else J'onn can do. But alas, all she needs is the telepathic edge, so Jean wins.

Hawk Girl vs. Iron Man

Why iron man? I dont know I felt he should be represented. I love the shell head but after seeing Hawk Girl in action on JL its hard for me not to picture her rendering his systems senseless with the electified mace of hers. That would be fun to watch!

Joker vs. Green Goblin

The Goblin's nuts but the only person with even a chance of predicting the clown prince of crime is Batman. Sorry Gobin.

Lex Luthor vs. Red Skull

The Skull's an angry hate filled nazi, and while he's formidable I think that Lex has the cunning and brains department in his corner. Lex wins.

Brainiac vs. Dr. Doom

Dr. Doom has his incredible armour, his intellect matched only perhaps by Reed Richards, and a whole load of black magic to fall back on. Brainiac doesn't measure up, but it would be quite a fight.

If I can remember any more of my ideas Ill post them here too. In the mean time feel free to add your own or critisize mine even. :D

[NewMaxFranklin]

Everyone always gives it to Batman!!! :rolleyes: Please! I'm sorry but, no. I've tip-toed around this one too many times. Wolverine could and would take Bats down:

He has unbreakable metal fused to his bones, plus claws. He has a killer instict, honed in countless black-op missions fighting, mercenaries, mutants and all manners of things. He's had samurai training and has dusted ninjas by the bucket. Last, but not least, he's practiacally immortal due to a mutant healing factor that allows him to shrug off flesh wounds and fight on dispite injuries that would kill normal men.

Most of the time people argue that Bats is to smart/cunning for Wolverine to beat. Um, Wolverine isn't stipid. Primal? Yes. Unpredictable? Yes. Stupid? No. ANd if anyone has had more combat experience than Bats, it's Logan. Wolvie would smell anything bats throws at him a mile away.

[Dark Knight]

Originally posted by NewMaxFranklin
Everyone always gives it to Batman!!! :rolleyes: Please! I'm sorry but, no. I've tip-toed around this one too many times. Wolverine could and would take Bats down:

He has unbreakable metal fused to his bones, plus claws. He has a killer instict, honed in countless black-op missions fighting, mercenaries, mutants and all manners of things. He's had samurai training and has dusted ninjas by the bucket. Last, but not least, he's practiacally immortal due to a mutant healing factor that allows him to shrug off flesh wounds and fight on dispite injuries that would kill normal men.

Most of the time people argue that Bats is to smart/cunning for Wolverine to beat. Um, Wolverine isn't stipid. Primal? Yes. Unpredictable? Yes. Stupid? No. ANd if anyone has had more combat experience than Bats, it's Logan. Wolvie would smell anything bats throws at him a mile away.

Dont get me wrong. I totally agree with you that Wolverine is incredibly smart and experienced. But he has flaws that are, let's face it, more obvious that Batman's. His rage is completely exploitable. Sure Wolverine going into a fury usually means his opponents guts on the floor but Bats is even less stupid than Logan and he'd totally keep his distance baiting him until he reveals some carefully thought out trap. Logan may have more combat experience but Batman can keep his cool in battle and thats what I think would decide the fight. And of course Wolverine is practically immortal but Batman doesnt kill anyways so all he'd need to do is neutralize the feisty X-man. I've always envisioned the giant magnet thing because it's an obvious way for Batman to turn one of Wolvies advantages against him, but it might happen some other way I dont know. I admitt I almost always give it to Batman but the fact that this guy with no powers is clever enough to figure out ways to take everybody else down is what make Batman the coolest superhero in my eyes. Anyways if there is someone in the marvel universe (save people like Galactus and other super cosmic cheapos) who might take down bats it would probably be wolvie, thats pretty much why I think itd be awesome to see them fight. Regardless of who wins it would be so intense I'd probably be able to fill an olympic size swimming pool with drool before it was over.

[NewMaxFranklin]

Oops. Got carried away there and forgot to post my match-up's. :rolleyes:

Marvel Vs DC, huh? :)

Psylocke Vs Electra

Ok, ok. They're both Marvel. Which is all the more reason to pit them against each other!:p I don't know much about either, but they seem pretty evenly matched.

Daredevil Vs Batman

Now there's a friggin' match-up! :D The battle of Miller's Babies. ;) Sure DD is blind, but that's not his handicap, it's his gift. He's trained his other senses so well that sight has become unnecessary. I always thought it amusing that DD is so much like like Batman, but he has an attribute witch fits Bats' theme perfectly. Punisher vs Bat's would be another cool one. ;)

[NewMaxFranklin]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dark Knight
Bats is even less stupid than Logan

LOL :p

I admitt I almost always give it to Batman but the fact that this guy with no powers is clever enough to figure out ways to take everybody else down is what make Batman the coolest superhero in my eyes.

True. ;)

Regardless of who wins it would be so intense I'd probably be able to fill an olympic size swimming pool with drool before it was over.

Now that's just disgusting :wakko:

[Dark Knight]

Originally posted by NewMaxFranklin
Oops. Got carried away there and forgot to post my match-up's. :rolleyes:

Marvel Vs DC, huh? :)

Psylocke Vs Electra

Ok, ok. They're both Marvel. Which is all the more reason to pit them against each other!:p I don't know much about either, but they seem pretty evenly matched.

Daredevil Vs Batman

Now there's a friggin' match-up! :D The battle of Miller's Babies. ;) Sure DD is blind, but that's not his handicap, it's his gift. He's trained his other senses so well that sight has become unnecessary. I always thought it amusing that DD is so much like like Batman, but he has an attribute witch fits Bats' theme perfectly. Punisher vs Bat's would be another cool one. ;)

In the actual DC vs. Marvel thing that I never read I think they had Catwoman vs. Elektra. Im not sure If I can think of a DC counterpart for Psylocke though, she's hard core asian by way of british psionic ninja warrior... and now she's dead :mad: .

DD vs. Batsy would be awesome, the only way there'd be a conclusion to that would be if he found out about the Blind thing and used an onslaught of loud noises and general chaos to throw off DDs radar sense. Never thought about the whole blind as a bat thing, I guess that is kinda ironic that daredevil gets to be the blind guy. And Batman vs. Punisher would be awesome. The ultimate gun toting hero vs. gun shunning hero showdown!

[cysurf]

Batman already went up against The Punisher twice (although one time it was the Azrael/Batman who met him).

[metaphysician]

Originally posted by NewMaxFranklin
Oops. Got carried away there and forgot to post my match-up's. :rolleyes:

Marvel Vs DC, huh? :)

Psylocke Vs Electra

Ok, ok. They're both Marvel. Which is all the more reason to pit them against each other!:p I don't know much about either, but they seem pretty evenly matched.

Daredevil Vs Batman

Now there's a friggin' match-up! :D The battle of Miller's Babies. ;) Sure DD is blind, but that's not his handicap, it's his gift. He's trained his other senses so well that sight has become unnecessary. I always thought it amusing that DD is so much like like Batman, but he has an attribute witch fits Bats' theme perfectly. Punisher vs Bat's would be another cool one. ;)

Well, Psylocke would beat Elektra, unless its Elektra-God, in which case, Elektra wins.

Batman would beat Daredevil. Period. Sure, it would be a good fight, but it would be no where near as good as, say, Bats vs. Wolvie. Daredevil is basically like Nightwing, only he has enhanced senses, radar sense, and SLIGHTLY inferior physical skills. Batman vs. Nightwing = Nightwing embarassed. I don't see it going any differently here.

Batman vs. Punisher wouldn't even be any fun to watch. Pun would warrant little more attention and effort than the standard Well Armed Thug (tm).

[Dark Knight]

Originally posted by metaphysician


Batman vs. Punisher wouldn't even be any fun to watch. Pun would warrant little more attention and effort than the standard Well Armed Thug (tm).

While Im not exactly a big fan of Punisher and I agree that Batman would humiliate him, Punisher would give him at least as much trouble as a master Gunster like Deadshot, but probably more. Lets not underestimate the guy. :)

[Dark Knight]

You know what would be hilarious? Batman vs. Deadpool! He'd annoy the bejezus outta the Dark Knight... come to think of it lets just have Deadpool vs. Joker that'd be twice as funny! :D

[warmachine04]

I remmember a few years ago that a comic book series based on this idea was out. They had some interesting battles (Ex. Superman vs. Hulk & Batman vs. Wolverine), but here are my ideas:
1) Batman vs. Capt. America: Capt. might have the muscle and knows how to handle his shield but Batman leads with brains, better skills and a utility belt.
2) Wonderwoman vs. Storm: The match looks pretty equal between Storm's weather powers and Wonderwoman's endurance and strength.
3) Hawkgirl vs. Angel: Both are great flyers but Hawkgirl has lethal fighting skills and a killer mace.
4) Flash vs. Quicksilver: Flash by a mile. He could spin circles around Quicksilver.
5) Steel vs. Iron Man: Iron Man leads with more high-tech gadgets under his armor.
6) Supergirl vs. Rogue: Rogue has definately the muscle and can always get more.
7) Green Lantern vs. Magneto: Both can create powerful forceshields and have great endurance.
8) Superman vs. Thor: Both have strength and the ability of flight but I would have go with Supes.
9) Martian Manhunter vs. Psylocke. Both have telepathic powers but battle will be determined between Jon'z shape shifting density alteration and Psylocke's teleportation and psy-blades.

[Dark Phoenix]

That Marvel vs. DC graphic novel is part sensible and part biased. Five of those battles, particularly the outcome, are decided by voters, namely:
Hulk vs. Superman - votes favored Supes, and I agree.
Batman vs. Captain America - votes favored Bats, but it can go either way. Personally I would vote for Bats because I like Cap less.
Wolverine vs. Lobo - votes favored Logan because of sheer popularity, not because he can realistically beat the Main Man.
Wonder Woman vs. Storm - votes favored Storm for the same reason as Wolverine-Lobo fight.
Captain Marvel vs. Thor - votes favored Thor, which makes sense.

There was a picture done by George Perez featuring JLA vs. Avengers. It was drawn in such a way to match up members of each side in one-on-ones. Of the top of my head, I can barely recall:

Superman vs. Thor
Wonder Woman vs. She-Hulk
Batman vs. Captain America
Black Panther vs. Blue Beetle
Black Canary vs. Black Widow
Falcon vs, Zauriel
Hercules vs. Orion
Triathlon vs. Steel
Plastic Man vs. Machine Man
Quasar vs. GL
Firestar vs. Fyre
Zatanna vs. Scarlet Witch

That's all I can think of. Now I have to go find that picture.

[Dark Phoenix]

Ok, found it. JLA vs. Avengers: Last Man Standing (http://www.avengersassemble.org/jla_vs_aven_big.jpg)

[Mr. Obsession]

Originally posted by cysurf
Batman already went up against The Punisher twice (although one time it was the Azrael/Batman who met him).
Heh, I remember those. Azrael vs. Punisher was basically a tie. Batman vs. Punisher had Batman taking Punisher down with little effort and telling him that if he ever showed up in Gotham again he would personally see to it that Punisher spent the rest of his days is Arkham.


I thought the whole DC vs. Marvel crossover was ok, I can’t say that I cared for the whole short lived Amalgam Universe.

Personally my favorite fight in the thing was Aquaman vs. Namor, quite simply because AM cheated to win.

[FLIPMODE]

I have to agree Batman Vs. Wolverine is a good match up. But nothing changes. You have a good fighter next to a Great fighter.
Im sorry but all the proof in the world showing that Logan is the more skilled fighter, would all be fabrictaed. Batman is the Best fighter on earth, even within the Marvel Universe, Logan is NOT, the best martial Artist on earth. There are still other Marvel Characters on their roster that are better than him.

Wolverine is a ferocious fighter, but not the greatest of skilled fighters. And yes he's a Samurai...Batman knows THAT too, as well as ALL other styles on earth. A quote described Batman's range of perfected skills went like this: "There are 127 major Styles of Combat. While abroad Bruce Learned them all from Aikido to Yaw-Yan. His knowledge of so many varied disciplines has made Bruce an unconventional and unpredictable opponent, quite capable of countering a Savate kick, with a Caporeira dodge, then kayoing with a paw-knuckle strike!"

So lets say Wolvie had No mutant Powers, but still had his fighting skills, he's still not in Batman's league, in fighting alone.

Wolvies main advantages over the Bat, would have to be his tuffness, his claws, and healing. Sometimes he's tuffer than other times.

But like Dark Knight Said, the Bat wont fight Stupidly, against some one who's 5'3". Batman wont get close to the claws, and, would consider and knock out blow, or some sort of gas attack.
It would be nice to see them fight, because I look at Wolverine as a Batman clone of the Marvel universe. They both have some sort of pointy ears, and Both the half-face mask, and both have attitude. Though it'd be fun, this would not be Batman's toughest fight. I Put Wolvie in the range of Cain, from the Bat universe. A good fight, but a garaunteed win for Batman.

The Bat Vs' Cap= Batman.
The Bat Vs. Punisher= Batman.

My alltime Favorite match would be Spiderman Vs. Batman.
Trust me I put this topic up in the in another forum, and all heck broke loose. It was also up, in the Spiderman the movie message board, and even in THAT message board people had to admit, the Bat could do great damage.

I for one think Batman would win. Again, Spidey has even less skill than Wolvie, only thing saving him is spidey sense and weight lifting ability. But as for his tuffness? Well Spidey still is'nt bullet proof. And that means he can take a beating. I cant see Batman losing physically to anyone who does'nt have the combined skill of, extreeme durablity, super speed, and flight.
Spidey can definitly go the distance, but the Bat would be kicking him left and right.

If the fight came down to wits..Batman.

[Dark Phoenix]

Don't be too fixated on the almighty Batman, dude. He was crippled by Bane, beaten down by Predator, and humiliated several times by Joker (who isn't even a fighter in the true sense of the word, let alone your defiinition of it). He has lost his fair share of fights. Therefore, your argument of a guarantee win for Batman in any fight against any opponent is grossly flawed.

Although I do agree Batman will eventually beat Logan, after Logan cleans his clock the first time around. After all, you did say, and I quote:

I cant see Batman losing physically to anyone who does'nt have the combined skill of, extreeme durablity, super speed, and flight.
Which suggests that Superman, Wolverine and even Spider-Man can beat him. Plus, Batman has been physically beaten many times. If you disbelieve, perhaps Knightfall will jog your memory.


If the fight came down to wits..Batman.
This is obviously not a boxing match. In comicdom, you will need more than mere wits to battle a superhuman being. And to define a superhuman fighter solely on his/her martial arts resume is really silly, and worst to use Batman as a measuring tool to judge every superhuman character in comicdom. I can do the same by using any arbitrary character as a measuring tool the way you're using Batman. But that is just one point of view. There are always two sides to everything. You have only presented one side, an extremely slanted one. And from your one-sided assessment, it is plainly obvious that you have not venture anywhere else outside the world of Batman.

Plus, your subscription to "A is better than B and B better than C, therefore A must be better than C" theory is greatly misconstrued. In the real world, that theory is almost inapplicable. But that is another debate.

[FLIPMODE]

Wrong again Dark Phoenix.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I cant see Batman losing physically to anyone who does'nt have the combined skill of, extreeme durablity, super speed, and flight.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



"Which suggests that Superman, Wolverine and even Spider-Man can beat him. "

Um..wrong. Since when has Wolverine or EVEN Spidey gained the ability to fly? Where's the Super speed? Spidey and Wolverine CAN be shot, penetrated by mere bullets, same as Batman without kevlar on. So what are you Saying?

Read my statements carefully before picking them apart.
Oh yeah, and ofcourse I understand it's my point of view. But your still incorrect, seeming to just reflexively respond to my Batman can take almost anyone down theory.


. And from your one-sided assessment, it is plainly obvious that you have not venture anywhere else outside the world of Batman.

Wrong again Phoenix. Im into plenty of books out right now. And always have followed Supes, Bat's and Spidey heavily. Perhaps it is YOU, who needs to boneup on your Batman knowledge.

For instance, you said:


. He was crippled by Bane, beaten down by Predator, and humiliated several times by Joker (who isn't even a fighter in the true sense of the word, let alone your defiinition of it). He has lost his fair share of fights.

Fisrt off, every hero has been busted up. So no need to tell me. But overall, Im judging from the point of view from when they have won, and HOW they won. I see Batman's Victories, better than wolvies, and Spidey. Not combined, but individually yes.

The Bane thing again? Are you kidding. You know how many NON-Batman readers mention Bane? :rolleyes: Oh yes I know..um OWN, from the day it was issued, Knightfall. Issue by issue, week by week. Did YOU know, that, Batman, before your precious Bane crippled Bruce, that Bruce had just cleaned up ALL of Gotham city, because basically his Entire Rogue's gallery was Broken out of Prison by: BANE. So Bruce Defeats ALL of them, while also suffereing from an ILLNESS. Through out the whole story arc, Batman is weak, tired, sweating, passing out of exhaustion, and this was due to his sickness. So yes, Bane Broke him, but only after he defeated his entire rogues gallery, and battling an illness. I love when people mention Bane. Because it only makes Batman look that much Stronger. Thanks Phoenix, for letting evryone know the true strength of the Bat. Plus the Batman Bane rematch was a joke, Batman pretty much blew him to pieces.

So with that said, I've done some reconsidering because of your insight. :D Batman would Obliterate Wolverine! As for Spidey, I think it's a better fight because Spidey's reflexes are really great. And that would be a cool fight to see. It could go either way.
And in the end the winning factor for Spidey would be, sticking to walls and webbing. Not fighting skills, and what Im saying is, If spidey came (off of the walls) down to Batman's level to try and physically beat Batman, Spidey wont have a Chance. It would take one knock out punch. Batman's not an ordinary fighter.

[Dark Knight]

Jeeze I didnt know my Wolvie-Batman matchup would cause so much dissention! But oh well thats what poeple like us do I guess is argue about stuff that has no actual definative answer (which is fine as long as it doesn't come down to name calling ;) )
With that in mind I must agree that It is pretty lame when people play the Bane card without considering all the crap Bats had to deal with before his back was broken, and if we're going to bring up times when people were humiliated lets not forget X-Men #25 where Magneto turned Wolverine inside out.
But all in all i'd like to say again that while I favor Batman in the end, this is all opinions. I happen to think that Wolvie and Batman are very evenly matched even if the way I would write the fight would be to have Batman prevail in the end. That doesnt mean that there are infinate circumstances that could be applied to make it go other ways.

Anyway heres some more food for thought:

Cannonball vs. Supergirl- I favor Cannonball
Nightcrawler vs. Nightwing- Id have to say Nightwing for the same reason as Batman but it would be close.

Of course I still cant think of who would be coolest to fight my two favorite marvel heroes: Iceman and Mr. Fantastic. So i'm open to suggestions (just be prepared for me to be biased in my interpretation of the fights :D )

[Dark Phoenix]

Since when has Wolverine or EVEN Spidey gained the ability to fly? Where's the Super speed? Spidey and Wolverine CAN be shot, penetrated by mere bullets, same as Batman without kevlar on. So what are you Saying?
That Batman is no better. He can't fly! Nor does he have super speed.

Incidentally, Wizard magazine wrote a Wolverine vs. Batman article giving Wolverine the victory.


Perhaps it is YOU, who needs to boneup on your Batman knowledge.
Then I would end up having delusions that Batman can beat Darkseid, Thanos, Thor and even God. Something that a lot of Bat fans, especially yourself, are suffering from. And they are also quick to point out how wrong everyone are when they question Batman's abilities with strong valid points.


Plus the Batman Bane rematch was a joke, Batman pretty much blew him to pieces.
That's DC Comics for you. They are not good with character development, that's what I don't like about them. They also had Batman beat the Hulk by kicking him in the abs. I hope you'll be please to know that Bats beat someone in the Class 100 range.

But my point still stand: there is no such thing as a guarantee win for Batman. BTW, I didn't mention only Bane. Talk about reflective respose.

Logan is like a Batman clone in more ways than one. In that he is written to beat every single character in the Marvel Universe, very much like what DC has been doing to Batman for a very ong time. Try posting a Wolverine vs. Batman in a Marvel-related board, and see how many Logan supporters be stepping up to the plate.


Batman would Obliterate Wolverine!
Nothing has been changed on my part. I did say Batman will win, after Wolverine beats him first.

[Dark Phoenix]

Another thing about Marvel characters, and that is why I don't put too much value into Marvel-DC clashes, is that Marvel characters are not about win-loss victories. DC characters, especially Superman and Batman, are all about beating their opponents and nothing else. Because of that, many tend to perceive DC characters being more powerful than Marvel characters.

Personally, I think Spider-Man vs. Batman is a mismatch, because neither are in each other's leaque. For one, Spidey wouldn't fight at 100% level unless he realizes the odds are stacked overwhelmingly against him (one-on-one, in his opinion, doesn't qualify), or unless the fight serves an actual purpose. He's not one who will fight it out just to prove who is better, his first response will be to avoid fighting altogether. What would a very focused Batman stand to achieve by beating a very reluctant Spidey? Unless he is properly motivated to fight, Spider-Man would lose not because his abilities will fail him, but because the nature of his character will. Two, Spidey isn't a mentally-challenged fighter, which makes him a poor quality of opposition against a detective like Batman. And three, if you know anything about Spidey, he has a tendency to lose against first-time opponents. There are very very few opponents he met for the first time that he has actually beaten the first time around. Putting him against Batman doesn't do him justice.

DK, how about:
Plastic Man vs. Mr. Fantastic
Iceman vs. Ice [there are no rules against mixed gender fights]

[Joe Tully]

The points that Dark Phoenix is making are valid. The bottom line is: Batman can be beaten, no matter how much you dislike it. In a recent comic, didn't some lady with balloons get the drop on him, tie him up to the balloons and send him flying up in the air? No, that's not a total and utter defeat, but he did have time to plan against her and he was beaten. How Bane beat the Bat is irrevlevant: The point is, it happened. I've often laughed to myself about the point that DP made. Ask a fanboy who would win in a fight, Batman or God. Answer: Batman. He'd find God's weakness and take him down.

As long as I'm getting involved in the argument, I'll give my little idea on the Bats/Wolvie fight. In an instantaneous fight, Wolvie wins. Regardless of what you say, Wolvie does have a lot of training. Even if that falls a little short of Bats (which I'm not totally convinced of. Wolvie has been alive & training for like 100 years) he has a healing factor and claws and a skeleton made out of the hardest metal in the world . If Bats gets touched with those claws, he's not gonna be happy. Plus enhanced senses and lots of other good stuff. Now, if Bats escaped and lived to fight another day, I could see him coming up with another plan to take advantage of Wolvie's weaknesses. A huge freakin' magnet would work well against Wolvie, if he could somehow manipulate Wolvie to get him close enough to it.

[Dark Knight]

Originally posted by Dark Phoenix


DK, how about:
Plastic Man vs. Mr. Fantastic
Iceman vs. Ice [there are no rules against mixed gender fights]

Ive thought about reed fighting Plastic Man. Their powers would match up pretty well but ultimately Mr. Fantastic, I think, should fight someone with serious scientific brainpower. Plastic Man's such a goofball he wouldnt stand a chance. Now Morph vs. Plastic man, that would be fun!

Dont know much about Ice, but assuming she just controls Ice like Iceman does then yeah that'd be cool (no pun intend- er-um... nevermind ;) )

[Dark Phoenix]

The only scientific brain I know who's a superhuman character is the Atom, but he doesn't stretch like Reed. Although Reed has lost twice in stretching contests, both of which were against himself. Now the Atom vs. Hank Pym aka Antman aka Yellowjacket... ;)

Although in the Nightwing-Nightcrawler match-up, if it's a very short fight then Nightcrawler wins. But in a long fight, Nightwing, because Nightwing will have time to study Kurt and be able to predict his next appearance.

Now what about Iron Man vs. Batman. Both own their own companies, heavily rely on high-tech gadgets (Iron Man his arsenal of armors, Batman his... well, you know), are wealthy bachelors, and have an air of arrogance that they are better than everyone else.

And more that I can think of, courtesy of George Perez and that picture he drew :p
Black Canary vs. Black Widow
Photon vs. the Ray
Green Arrow vs. Hawkeye
Thanos vs. Darkseid (Wizard gave Darkseid the victory.)
Knockout vs. Titania
Man-Thing vs. Swamp Thing
Iron Fist vs. Shiva
Steel vs. War Machine

That should do for now. :)

[Dark Knight]

Fights like Atom vs. Giant man would be pretty cool if not a bit predictable like the whole Flash vs. Quicksilver or Aquaman vs. Submariner deal. Usually I try to match them up by their characters and not thier powers but with Hank Pym and the Atom it actually works both ways.

I've always thought about the similarities between Tony Stark and Batman. That'd be an interesting fight but I think I'd rather find an arial adversary for him. Probably not Hawkgirl as I originally said (I was just trying to reprent all 7 JL characters since thats what this forum is for.) Maybe steel but I think I'd rather he fought War Machine like you said.

As for that big ole list you left, In all honesty I dont think I know enough about some of those characters to offer a useful opinion but as for the ones I do:


Green Arrow vs. Hawkeye: I pick Green Arrow, but he'd just barely win and he'd probably look like a pin cusion by the end of it.
Thanos vs. Darkseid: Unless Thanos has the Infinite Gauntlet on his hand then I'm gunna have to agree with Wizard and give it to the lord of Apokolips.
Iron Fist vs. Lady Shiva: That would be really cool but I have no idea what the outcome would be.
Steel vs. War Machine: I pick War Machine but I'm flexible on the subject.

[Dark Phoenix]

Ok then, to bring it back to JL series, I hope to see the Orion and the warriors of New Genesis on the show soon. A good Marvel opposition for them would be the gods of Asgard:

High Father vs. Odin
Orion vs. Thor
Balder vs. Big Barda (I could have Barda fight Sif but Barda's too well-trained and battle-hardened it'll be one-sided in favor of Barda.)
Lightray vs. Enchantress (Only because I don't know of any magicians in New Genesis.)
Mr. Miracle vs. Loki - they could end up trying to outwit each other.

Another good Batman opponent: Black Panther.
Both are rulers in their own right, Bruce Wayne of Wayne Enterprise, T'Challa of Wakanda. Both have access to near unlimited high-tech resources, in Panther's case it's the vibranium-rich land that he rules over. Both are nocturnally-inclined, devious and cunning. Both have extensive combat training, and though Batman's resume of martial arts training is a mile long, he has never been to Wakanda and thus is unfamiliar with Wakanda's mysterious style of combat. Both are also at the peak of their human potential. It will be a great fight.

Wonder Woman vs. Thor.
She's the only DC character that lifted Thor's hammer, and possesses its power briefly in the Marvel vs. DC crossover. On her own, she's pretty powerful. But with Mjolnir-enhanced powers, she's more than a match for Thor. Throw in the sense of nobility factor as a wild card, and another great fight is made.

[Dark Knight]

I think Thor is more a match for superman himself. God knows supes would have a harder time with him than with Cap. And once again I'm not quite sure who would win that one. I like Superman more but Thor's a freakin God.

And if Supes were to fight Thor how bout Cap vs. Aquaman. Kind of an odd pairing but they're way more on each others level. And its a way to cancel out that whole "been there done that"ness of aquaman vs. namor. I'd have to give it to cap though. That hook ain't gettin past that shield.

How bout Magneto vs. Sinestro? There's another one I'm unsure of, but it's a pretty cool matchup.

[NewMaxFranklin]

What's with all these darn replies for DK, when all my "Who Would Win" posts died horrible deaths! :rolleyes: Ahead of their time, I guess. ;)

[FLIPMODE]

That's DC Comics for you. They are not good with character development, that's what I don't like about them. They also had Batman beat the Hulk by kicking him in the abs. I hope you'll be please to know that Bats beat someone in the Class 100 range.


? That's a Bold statement. Especially when referring to DC. I've always heard the opposite.
And actually, (Because I have the book), Batman did'nt beat the Hulk by merely kicking him in the abs. They were both in a room, when Batman released knock out Gas, The
hulk thought he was smart by holding his breath, (this was the DUMB Hulk), Batman's Kick was for shock value only, that did not hurt Hulk, then Hulk naturally inhaled. It's not like Batman was written to Kick Hulk to his Doom.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps it is YOU, who needs to boneup on your Batman knowledge.
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Then I would end up having delusions that Batman can beat Darkseid, Thanos, Thor and even God. Something that a lot of Bat fans, especially yourself, are suffering from.

And they are also quick to point out how wrong everyone are when they question Batman's abilities with strong valid points.


I see, so your avoiding any real knowledge of Batman because
your afraid you might like the character? Ok.

Well you were only "wrong" twice. Once when you did'nt read MY reply carefully, which you implied Wolvie, and Spidey had flight Superspeed, and extreeme durability. I see now that you just read it wrong, and responed incorrectly. Im sure you know that they dont have those powers. :)

The other time when you replied:

. And from your one-sided assessment, it is plainly obvious that you have not venture anywhere else outside the world of Batman.

Yes you were flat out wrong there. Any judgement on me, (someone you dont know) will most likely be wrong.

Other than that I respect your opinions. But leave it to a message board to recieve an opposing view. That I actually enjoy..HEY it's a message board. Write what you want.

[Naraht]

I'm gonna comment on the Bat-Spider fight...
Assuming they're both droped of in some abandoned city, the initial fight goes to spidey, but then they talk, and team up. A Spiderman/Batman team-up would ROCK!

[Joe Tully]

Originally posted by naraht
I'm gonna comment on the Bat-Spider fight...
Assuming they're both droped of in some abandoned city, the initial fight goes to spidey, but then they talk, and team up. A Spiderman/Batman team-up would ROCK!

They have teamed up, in 2 comics I think. One was Spider-Man/Batman, the other Batman/Spider-Man. I have one of them, in which they fight Joker and Carnage. It's pretty good.

[FLIPMODE]

Yeah and when Batman beats the mess out of CARNAGe, then im pretty sure he could beat Spidey. And Carnage is stronger than Spidey, obviously that mutant power thing is'nt much help.

Out of 10 rounds, or 10 fights, I give 6 to Bruce, and 4 to Parker.

Because, yes Batman can slip up, but overall skill on an average, (which is how I always compare), Batman would egde him out.

[Naraht]

Originally posted by FLIPMODE
Yeah and when Batman beats the mess out of CARNAGe, then im pretty sure he could beat Spidey. And Carnage is stronger than Spidey, obviously that mutant power thing is'nt much help.

Out of 10 rounds, or 10 fights, I give 6 to Bruce, and 4 to Parker.

Because, yes Batman can slip up, but overall skill on an average, (which is how I always compare), Batman would egde him out.

Yeah, Carnage is stronger...but he's also a stupid insane sociopath...

Pete is smart...not as fighting savy as Bruce...but he has range, is stronger, and more manuverable. I doubt the fight would last long, as soon as they started talking (and pete ALWAYS talks) they would realize there was no need to fight. (Unless the HAD to fight, in which case, yeah, eventually Bruce would probably win...though it would be a tough fight for both of em.)

Also, Webbing is betterer than Bat's ropes...anyway, I'll post more next year...

Gotta go back to my mom's & house sit (ie no internet)

[Joe Tully]

Originally posted by FLIPMODE
Yeah and when Batman beats the mess out of CARNAGe, then im pretty sure he could beat Spidey. And Carnage is stronger than Spidey, obviously that mutant power thing is'nt much help.

Out of 10 rounds, or 10 fights, I give 6 to Bruce, and 4 to Parker.

Because, yes Batman can slip up, but overall skill on an average, (which is how I always compare), Batman would egde him out.

First: He beat Carnage by freaking him out psychologically, which wouldn't work so well with Parker. Carnage got so freaked-out that he just couldn't maintain the suit's integrity, and his attacks consisted of wild swipes which were easily avoided, much more so than his usual ones. If you haven't read the book, don't count it as part of your argument.

Second: As has been said, A beats B beats C arguments don't work. Haven't you ever played Rock-Paper-Scissors?

Don't know what you're talking about with the "mutant power thing." Plus Parker has Spidey-Sense. :yawn:

You can think whatever you want, but at least do it logically.

[Dark Phoenix]

And someone thinks that I might "like" Batman if I start researching him like a fanboy. BTW, I did favor him over Cap. You judge wrongly, Flipboy.

So tell me, is it consider a guarantee win if Spidey gets a 4 or anything above 0? Guarantee win would be a 10-0 for Batman, no?

Outcome of a match is not always decided on fighting skill alone. If that is the case, why hasn't Batman beaten Ra's cleanly? Besides the fact that Ra's has lived for centuries, Batman is obviously more extensively trained, plus all the other things that has already been mentioned of Batman, therefore he is more skilled than Ra's. And using Flipmode's assessment approach, Batman would have obliterate Ra's already. Using the same said approach, Spider-Man would have beaten anyone that is slower, less agile and less-skilled than him. Yet, Marvel (the "-ve" opposite of DC) writes him losing more matches than he won, many of which are against lesser-skilled opponents like Vulture, Doc Octopus, Lizard, Mysterio, Scorpion and even Carnage. Why is that? Is something wrong here?

We're discussing on who will win in a match, not who is better/worse skilled. See Flipmode, your arguments revolve solely around skills. Your conclusion is: more skilled = win, less skilled = loss. A match involves character's personalities, experience, age, setting/locale, state of mind, etc., not only skills. Plus, you provided very sketchy details on Batman's opponents (in comparison to the abundance of details you gave on Batman), which led me to believe that you knew nothing outside of Batman in the first place. I based my conclusions on what I saw. What I saw is an extremely unbalanced analysis you presented.

[FLIPMODE]

What I saw is an extremely unbalanced analysis you presented.

AND? So what? Even if that IS the case, which it's not, why does that so personally affect you? Let's keep it real here, calling me "Flipboy", does'nt help your argument, nor does it have anything to do with the match up. Not once in my posts did I call you Dark Phony. :D


And my very first post, here you come jumping all over it. Here's the 1st line in your 1st post, in retaliation to my 1st post:


Don't be too fixated on the almighty Batman, dude.

Even if I was, is this not a BTAS, BB, Supes board? What would be so horrible about that? You must be the committe in prevention of Batman overdose, oddly enough you reside in this board of all places. I dont mind being quoted, for the purpose of your point, but other than that, any post made in here is not going to change anyones view. It's just a time to be heard, your own POV.

Other than that, you seem to be hellbent on "judging" the WAY I judge. Now if that's not the most diluted thing to waste time over, I dont know what is. You can't tell me that YOUR logic behind why, Character A, will beat Character B, makes more sense than my way. If that's the case, I would have never posted.
I would have just read your manuscrtipt on how to judge charcters. :rolleyes:

There are no set of rules for these fights. MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, if YOU; Phoenixboy, made a NEW thread, about DC Vs Marvel, (are you listening?) set the parameters: who fights who, where, why, under what conditions, how long the battle lasts and so forth, THEN MAYBE, the points you made in your previous replies, will have SOME validity. Because then we'd be forced to abide your precious rules, and there will be no argument in your mind. So until that day comes, and as long as we're replying on this particular thread, it's about who WE, personally think who would beat who. If that's not respected than you dont deserve to be posting on any message board.

I'll dispute anyone's rediculous Ideas, BUT, I'd never go so far as to telling them HOW they should be thinking. That's obsurd.

Now according Marvel Wolvies fighting skills are at 8. If Bat's was in that universe he's be 9 for sure, if not 10. To me, when I sit back and imagine a fight, I think it would have to come down, to years of training, Skills, and just overall average wins. Yup.That's it. Because we're talking about heroes here, they're ALL good, and they all have good records, and they ALL have been beaten. So I dont have much to go on, besides other similar opponents they fought, and there skill. Because we allready know, that given whatever reason either could win. So in my view, I Give it to Batman.

And regardless, did Batman not woop Carnage? That was the point. Yes I do own that book, AND the other SPidey Team up with Ra's al Gouhl in it. And in that issue, Spidey takes a fall off the avalanche, and it knocked out cold. He's not superman, and Blow to the head van knock him out, and Batman could possibly deliver that blow.

Dispute, yes, retrain one's way's of thinking no.

And forget Batman, the most overated character is Silver Surfer.

[Joe Tully]

Originally posted by FLIPMODE


Other than that, you seem to be hellbent on "judging" the WAY I judge. Now if that's not the most diluted thing to waste time over, I dont know what is. You can't tell me that YOUR logic behind why, Character A, will beat Character B, makes more sense than my way.


Yes, he can. That's how an argument works. And, also because, he's right. What you are saying is that only skill matters? So, if we have someone like Silver Surfer, but with less skill and even more power, vs. Batman, Batman would win? Please. To only take into account one factor is simply ridiculous.

As I say, argue for Batman however you want, but to only take skill into consideration is silly.

Ugh...and the Carnage thing still doesn't count, but I'm not going to repeat myself. Read the past posts. You haven't argued effectively against any of the points that were made in regards to Bats beating Carnage and how it is in no way indicative that he could beat Spidey.

Anyways, I'm tired of going in circles here. Bye.

[Karkull]

"Who'd win in a fight: Batman or God?"
"Uh...Batman?"
"Wrong!"
"God."
"Wrong answer [...], Batman is God!"

:D

Please stop the madness! This DC/Marvel debate is tearing these boards apart! There's more than enough comic rack space between them: can't they get along?

:rolleyes:


Superman vs. Thor: Superman wins
Batman vs. Captain America: Batman wins

HA!

[FLIPMODE]

Your right, goodbye.
My point stands. And Im obviously dealing with a couple of babies, that can't handle an opposing pov.

A Pov that seems to threaten their very way of Life.

I'll carry on with respectful posters on this board. Even when they disagree, there's nothing but respect, but you two, dont understand that.

Based off of how you react, if Batman ever did beat Silver Surfer, I hope you guys have enough sense to Not commit suicide. :rolleyes: It's not the end of the world ya know.

Even if Batman has enough strength to beat Spidey and Wolvie at the same time! :p

Wait a Sec, am I the only one who witnessed, Batman take out almost all of the X-men By himself, in "Access" DC/Marvel Crossover? The rest of the JLA came in the next issue. The only one who stopped him was Cyclops optic blast. But I remember him knocking out Bishop, that cannonbal kid.., it was so quick. And this is a good example because, Batman was placed in an element not his own, no preparation, no warning, and he took out several heroes.


Ugh...and the Carnage thing still doesn't count,

As for Carnage. Look I can't believe your trying to downplay Batman's victory. If Carnage was trying to hit Batman, then Carnage was trying to Hit Batman, that's it. Face the facts, Carnage could'nt get a hit on him, and not only is he stronger, but he's just as fast as spidey. Not just based off of this, but it's very good evidence that, people like Spidey, are not above Batman's level.

And yes, off the top of my head, Im going by skill. And if you noticed, Im really only referring to Spidey and Wolvie, Vs the Batman. Not every hero on earth. Not Silver surfer. I think the 3 are very good opponents, so, to me skill is what it comes down to. No I dont have to factor in powers and all that nonsense. Not when those are allready the obvious. And even in my other posts I DID, mention Spidey's power's...this is just your problem of Not being able to read Carefully. :confused: And no Im not going to start factoring in, where, when, how, and why, because that only makes it harder for anyone to choose. Because those factors...ARE INFINITE, and are impossible to make any real decision based off of WHAT IF"s. So the most logical way is to, base your decision off of: 1-Skill. Contrary to what you think, Batman is not the only hero with skill, every hero has their own skill level, for WHATEVER they do. So if you want to throw, powers in this category go ahead. And 2-Whatever you have seen them do. Then you can come to some sort of conclusion, about who You think they can beat. If it's different from your view..tuff.

So yeah, bye.

[metaphysician]

Crossovers aren't canon. Ever.

Hence, technically, those fights with Batman never happened.

However, if you want a case of him taking down superhumans, the four Pale Martians he personally tagged in New World Order should suffice. Especially since Carnage is vulnerable to fire, isn't he??

[The Mad Hatter]

This has gone on far too long. It's quickly becoming a flame war, and we don't allow these here, period. Hatter's pissed and laying down the law--unwarranted personal attacks will NOT be tolerated here, and any who choose to do so will be banned.