Set your VCRs, rare Tom and Jerry and Bugs and Daffys acomin'!

[DarthGonzo]

Ok, thanks to the fact that another Land Before Movie and a few Cartoon Cartoons aired in the afternoon time slots for B&D and T&J and tonight is Adult Swim, the 3:00-4:00am time slots for these shows will be the only time they air today, meaning we've got some rare cartoons coming our way.

As far as Tom and Jerry are concerned, if you havent seen Triplet Trouble, Push Button Kitty, Nit Witty Kitty, Framed Cat or Saturday Evening Puss yet, you'd better set your VCRs.

[Matthew Hunter]

I hope so! I don't think there is much CN can air on Bugs and Daffy that they haven't in the past, I've got most of their rare-a-thons on tape...but it's still a good idea to tape it. My copy of "My Little Buckeroo" is pretty shabby, and I'd sure like to see a Speedy cartoon or two. Maybe one Daffy/Speedy and one Sylvester/Speedy. How about "Sky Scraper Caper", without that edit?
-Matthew

[Crazy Tom]

Originally posted by DarthGonzo
As far as Tom and Jerry are concerned, if you havent seen Triplet Trouble, Push Button Kitty, Nit Witty Kitty, Framed Cat or Saturday Evening Puss yet, you'd better set your VCRs.

I'm going to write that down and set my VCR before I go to bed...I sure hope you're right!

[John Doe]

Porky's Romance
I missed this when it last aired Thanksgiving 2000

Kristopher Kolumbus Jr.
Last aired on TBS or TNT 3-4 years ago?

Porky's Midnight Matinee
Missed on a late night Acme Hour

Either B&W or computer colorized versions will do. What a post-Christmas gift this would be. :D

[Cartman]

I know I'm not being very realistic here, but here are a ton of rare cartoons that I'd like CN to air on late night/early morning "Bugs and Daffy":

Any of the Bugs Bunny Censored 12 (I mean, they showed FRIGID HARE early yesterday morning didn't they?)

TOKIO JOKIO

ALI BABA BOUND Nickelodeon used to air this cartoon all the time. Hell, they aired a 1930's Porky Pig short in just about every episode.

Any of the Censored 11 cartoons

And of course any Bosko or Buddy cartoon

[Patrick McCart]

Ali-Baba Bound is shown semi-frequently on CN.

I need to catch it in B&W or comp. colorized since I've only seen the redrawn version.

[PorkyandDaffy]

I sure hope you guys really did set your timer because they just showed, of all things, HIS MOUSE FRIDAY as the first cartoon! I think I almost had a heart-attack when seeing the title. This is the Tom and Jerry cartoon I least expected CN to show. And just last night, too, was when I was complaining that they don't show any new "rare" T&J's anymore. I'm so happy they showed this, even if they did show the print with the dialogue muted out.

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

[Crazy Tom]

By the way, Darth Gonzo, thanks for the heads-up on the rarities, although CN did not properly show those cartoons correctly.

What drives me crazy is that CN can show His Mouse Friday but can cut half of Toyland Broadcast out because of the "Black Sambo Band" and the jazzy "Jungle Fever" segments. Don't you just love it when CN "double-standards" you to death?

[Billy]

Originally posted by DarthGonzo
Saturday Evening Puss........ [/B]

That is my favorite Tom And Jerry Cartoon-have any cuts been made to it over the past 52 years? I'd really like to know.

[chuckamuck43]

Darth Gonzo should be doing this but I'll give it a shot -

Well, Billy, in the US, Mammy Two-Shoes is considered by the "Powers That Be":mad: to be an offensive racial stereotype, so her part in Saturday Evening Puss has been edited quite a few times.

The first was in the early 60's. It was done by cutting out the visuals of her and inserting new footage (produced by Chuck Jones' T&J unit) of a young white woman. Thing is, they left in Mammy's original voice, so this suburban white girl sounds like Beulah the maid!:D:
I've also seen a print with June Foray voicing the young white girl - dull, but at least the visuals and voice matched!

Finally, the last time I saw "Saturday Evening Puss" on CN, the print they ran had Mammy back visually, but with a more subdued, less "shaw 'nuff" voice.
I've seen all the above versions, but I have also heard that there is a fourth version with Foray doing an Irish brogue over Mammy's voice.
It's sad the lengths people will go to to be PC!

[Jack]

Originally posted by chuckamuck43
Darth Gonzo should be doing this but I'll give it a shot -

Well, Billy, in the US, Mammy Two-Shoes is considered an offensive racial stereotype, so her part in Saturday Evening Puss was edited by cutting out the visuals of her and inserting new footage of a young white woman.
I've never seen one of those, how good a job did Jones' company do matching the new animation and backgrounds to the old stuff?


Jack :confused:

[J Lee]

I've never seen one of those, how good a job did Jones' company do matching the new animation and backgrounds to the old stuff?

Not bad -- the main redrawn scene shows the teen girl dancing when she gets the call from Jerry, not playing cards as Mammy was doing in the original. It's the mixing of a teenage white girl with Mammy's voice that's really jarring. But if that was what Fred Silverman and CBS wanted back in 1965...

Being 1960s animation from the Jones unit at MGM (probably by Tom Ray) the colors are natually a little brighter than the ones used by Hanna-Barbera in the original, but it looks far more in line with the rest of the cartoon than, say, the linking animation in some of the Friz Freleng-supervised 1980s Warner Bros. compliation movies.

[chuckamuck43]

Technically they work, like similar scenes in "Catty Cornered" and "Matinee Mouse" (both 1966) or "Shutter Bugged Cat" (1967). The average viewer probably wouldn't notice anything wrong.

Now WE would, of course - there is a synch problem with the soundtrack, and you can tell that while Miss Whitebread and Tom share the screen for a few scenes, they're both done by radically different groups of artists I think Chuck's boys were using the babysitter design from "Tot Watchers" as a model for her - her scenes are STRICTLY 60's saturday morning, while the rest of the cartoon is classic '50'S T&J.
The final scene between the two is the most obvious. In the original, Mammy's behind the door and her finger points at a terrified Tom. It's a two-shot. Well in the print I have (The Very Best Of Tom & Jerry VHS) with Whitebread, she's on the left side of the screen pointing at the original (1950) Tom on the right side. It looks like a split- screen! If you have the tape, check it out and you'll see what I mean - as I said, we notice it, but maybe the average guy wouldn't.
Of course, most jarring to me is Mammy's voice coming out of Barbie's body. I remember as a kid watching this stuff on CBS SUNDAY mornings in the late 60's wondering what the heck ...?!":)

WHOOPS! Not fast enough, JLee!

[Jon Cooke]

Originally posted by chuckamuck43
Of course, most jarring to me is Mammy's voice coming out of Barbie's body. I remember as a kid watching this stuff on CBS SUNDAY mornings in the late 60's wondering what the heck ...?!":)


TNT/TBS were running that version of "Saturday Evening Puss" into the early 1990s as well. I know that's the way I first saw that cartoon.

I agree it made for one really bizarre Tom and Jerry viewing experience!!


-Jon

[Jack]

Thanks to the both of you, I think my local Blockbuster has that video (they have lots of T&J videos). I never heard of the split screen thing, sounds freaky. Would it really have been too much hassle to just reanimate the whole scene?

Matinee Mouse and Shutterbugged cat weren't bad, but the old footage wasn't in very good condition (quite a bit darker than the prints we see of the original whole cartoons, I think).


Jack :D

[DarthGonzo]

I think the visual/audio mismatch of Mammy in Saturday Evening Puss probably happened in the late 1970s or early 1980s. I have the old "Tom and Jerry Cartoon Festival" videos from the early 80s and Saturday Evening Puss is on one of them, although it's the mismatch version. I have a copy of the cartoon taped from TV from around the same time that actually has Mammy in it with her proper voice, only the opening scene with her putting on the jewelry is edited. Finally, though I'm not sure which one, there's the more recent video from around 1991 that includes the redrawn version of the cartoon with the "white" voice. What a tangled web.

And its easy to tell that Tom is redrawn if you know what to look for. He's missing the white between in eyes in all redrawn shots.

So whats going on around here? Am I the new Tom and Jerry expert or something?

[chuckamuck43]

Originally posted by DarthGonzo So whats going on around here? Am I the new Tom and Jerry expert or something?

Why not? Isn't that a great thing to be?

NOW -
I went back & dug out the tape. Much as I hate to say it, I was wrong about the split screen - it was a TOTAL redraw of Tom & the teen. :( Nothing beats doing the research, huh? Sorry 'bout that!

[DarthGonzo]

Originally posted by chuckamuck43


Why not? Isn't that a great thing to be?

NOW -
I went back & dug out the tape. Much as I hate to say it, I was wrong about the split screen - it was a TOTAL redraw of Tom & the teen. :( Nothing beats doing the research, huh? Sorry 'bout that!

Yes, the entire scene was redrawn. The three alley cats (Butch, Meathead and Shorty) were in the original scene and all three mysteriously disappear as soon as Tom opens the door in the redrawn version. The thing I dont like in the redubbed Mammy version currently on CN is her emphasis on only the word "music" on her last line. In the original, she said, "...soft...soothing...HOT MUSIC!!" In CN's desire to PC Mammy, they ruin the entire delivery.

And yes, if I am the Tom and Jerry expert, I'm proud of it. I've enjoyed their cartoons my entire life. Probably the first thing I ever watched was a Tom and Jerry cartoon. My late father was a huge fan. I wish he was around now to enjoy the rare showings and to visit such friendly boards as this one. One thing I HAVE inherited from him is his ability to draw the characters very well. I even try to differentiate between the various animators and time periods when I draw the characters. I should try to post some of my artwork.

For Xmas this year I sent my best friend and his girlfriend Christmas cards with a picture I drew of Tom and Jerry in the same pose in both cards. On her card I drew the characters as they appeared in 1941. On his card I drew them as they appeared in 1951. Very fanatical, I know. But it was a hoot, at least for me

[Jack]

Originally posted by DarthGonzo
One thing I HAVE inherited from him is his ability to draw the characters very well. I even try to differentiate between the various animators and time periods when I draw the characters. I should try to post some of my artwork.
Oh please do, fan art is always fun, and I've found that Tom and Jerry are somewhat hard to draw.



Jack :D

[chuckamuck43]

Darn right - show us!

I can draw freehand most all the screwball LT characters (the "roundheads" like Tweety and Elmer are more difficult for me!), but T&J are really hard!

In 1993 I designed a Christmas wall display for a Retirement community. It featured 50 hand-drawn cartoon characters from Bugs to Beavis. I'll bet you can guess which two were HARDEST to get "just right?".

Yup, Tom & Jerry! So I admire anybody who can draw them, let alone from different PERIODS in their evolution!

I propose you be given the title: Official Termite Terrace Forum Tom And Jerry Expert Emeritus. All in favor say "AYE" - but only if you post us some PICTURES! (just kiddin':))

[DarthGonzo]

Originally posted by chuckamuck43
Darn right - show us!

I can draw freehand most all the screwball LT characters (the "roundheads" like Tweety and Elmer are more difficult for me!), but T&J are really hard!

In 1993 I designed a Christmas wall display for a Retirement community. It featured 50 hand-drawn cartoon characters from Bugs to Beavis. I'll bet you can guess which two were HARDEST to get "just right?".

Yup, Tom & Jerry! So I admire anybody who can draw them, let alone from different PERIODS in their evolution!

I propose you be given the title: Official Termite Terrace Forum Tom And Jerry Expert Emeritus. All in favor say "AYE" - but only if you post us some PICTURES! (just kiddin':))

I'll all for that title, man!! Thanks!

Yes, it took me a very long to time to get Tom and Jerry just right. Tom is generally easier than Jerry, mainly because he's bigger and has a larger variety of facial expressions. Most times it's hardest to draw the characters smiling, especially when I try to copy Muse's style. That's why sketching and light pencil marks are always preferred until I get the look just right. Action poses are always easier since the way a character stands always comes under close scrutiny. One thing thats important to remember when drawing Tom and Jerry is that, unlike many cartoon characters, they dont really have huge eyes. When I first started drawing them, I made their eyes very large with tiny pupils. They ended up looking like characters from Tiny Toon Adventures. Technically, their eyes are the exact opposite. My advice to anyone drawing Tom and Jerry is to try to copy Irven Spence's style. He's very loose and if it gets alittle sloppy it looks fine. Here's some more pointers, mainly regarding animators styles.

If your copying Kenneth Muse, keep it restrained. Even Muse's wildest scenes arent drawn very wild, if you know what I mean. When Muse's characters smile, they really do look quite content. And when Muse's characters are mad, they really look nasty. Muse's Tom is generally the one with enough detail to allow finger and toe nails and often he has three breast bumps on his chest as opposed to two. Best advice for copying Kenneth Muse: KEEP IT RESTRAINED AND DETAILED.

I've found Ray Patterson had this "wise guy" style for his characters. Dont be afraid to make his style look a little "smartass" or goofy. I generally draw his Tom cross-eyed with whiskers spread further apart than normal. The character's bodies arent as streamlined either, sometimes with shoulderblades or hips apparent. And the faces, especially while talking, have a wide variety of movement. Spike, for example, has alot of detail in his mouth when he talks. No matter who animated them, Tom and Jerry always ran with their arms flailing out in front. Patterson, however, always kept the pinky finger seperate from the rest of the fingers when the characters run.

Ed Barge is my least favorite animator, so I find myself drawing his style less often. Keep it relatively simplistic. Make Jerry's eye lashes prominant. Tom has a smaller muzzle and more of a basic scowl when he's angry. Barge's Tom also has smaller, rounder ears. Everything seems pretty round in this style. When his characters run, they keep their pointer fingers seperate from the rest of their hands

Anything goes with Irven Spence. Keep it sloppy if you want, thats my best advice. The characters oftentimes have larger muzzles than usual. Tom also always seems to have small pockmarks (dots) where his whiskers meet his muzzle. Believe me, that the characters dont have to look perfect.

A few other pointers regarding drawing the characters from specific time periods

Tom did not officially get cheeks until the middle of 1944 and he became a little less hairy around 1945. From the middle of 1944 to the very end of 1945 Tom's whiskers came together like a mellowdrama villian. He lost the white between his eyes in 1953.

When drawing the very early Jerry, keep him pretty rubbery, with a thick tail and a big nose. Most of the animators lost Jerry's eyelashes by 1951. Ed Barge kept them until 1953 or so.

I hope my tips help you Tom and Jerry artists who are having trouble.

AS for my pictures...well first I need a working scanner and a better computer before I can post them. My computer is so crummy I'm surprised it didnt shut down in the middle of writing this.

Later guys.......

Oh yeah, I'm got "Mouse Trouble" on in the other room. I defy you to listen to Tom screaming with his head caught in the ceiling and not laugh!!

[Billy]

Well we get Mammy's original body and voice,playing cards and saying the word 'music' as 'MUSIC!' in the UK!