Batman: Gotham Knights #1-74 Talkback

[kid_flash]

Man, I just got the bright idea to start a thread about this. Did anyone else thoroughly enjoy this? I mean, I love GK, it's one of the best out there. If you're not checking this out and you're a Batman fan, I gotta ask why you aren't.

Right, onto issue 24. Wow. I love the idea that Bruce Wayne really does somewhat suffer from split personality (yes, I know Devin Grayson didn't come up with it first), and his whole issue with the gun is incredible. It's something that gets touched on a LOT, but I've never read an entire issue that's devoted to it.

Thoughts?

[Kathy Kane]

O man!

I think that Bruce has lost his mind!!!
Now that he owns a gun, he'll be accused of murder, isn't that what the upcoming arc is all about?!
:eek:


I also liked the back-up B & W.

[kid_flash]

Yeah, Bruce Wayne: Murderer? (It really does have the ? in the title). I can't wait!!! Just one week 'til 10-cent Adventure!

[batman205]

In the latest Previews in the apparel section, there is a t-shirt for the Batmam 10 cent Adventure. It is titled "Split Personality."

[kid_flash]

Interesting...at first I didn't really like the cover (Dave Johnson rules, the cover just didn't do anything for me), but I didn't catch onto the symbolism. Interesting...

3 MORE DAYS 'TIL 10-CENT ADVENTURE!!!!

[SilentBobWooHoo]

I agree with kidflash...Gotham Knights is awesome. I would like any of the Grayson-haters to tell me why they don't enjoy this book. I especially loved the Poison Ivy issue and the one where Dick is adopted...great stuff!

[kid_flash]

Apparently, the Grayson-haters just say they "don't like her writing." More specifically, all I've heard is that for GK #24, people complained because they think Bruce doesn't have split personality. Okay, two things:

1) Bruce talked to Batman in BATMAN: EGO, and everyone and their dog loves that.

2) No, he doesn't. To use BATMAN: EGO again, Bruce made a deal with Batman. They aren't totally seperate, but they are NOT the same person. Anyone who says Bruce Wayne and Batman are the same person needs to do some serious reading and take a look at just how similar the two are. Good acting only takes care of part of it. Batman's a force withing Bruce.

[Joker85]

What did everyone thinkof this latest issue?I thought it was great, but then again I have never read a D. Grayson story that I didn't like. I like how Superman always tries to help Batman, even though it's always the same answer. At least he never gives up. I'm not sure I like the idea of Batman dropping his Bruce Wayne identity, it seems to be going a bit too far. Alfred's appearance in the cave was also great. Another great issue! :) What did all you other GK readers think?

[The Guard]

I love how OFFICER DOWN is tied to this. There's something going on. Something big. I loved this issue. Great to see Batman stop and think when Clark called him Bruce. One complaint. Why isn't Superman wearing the black "S"?

[Sugar Daddy]

Great great issue. I loved Superman's appearance.

[Joker85]

GK # 28 came out today. so, what are everyones thoughts? I picked it up just a second ago, but haven't read it yet. I believe it's the Mortician one though. I'll post my thoughts later on tonight. This is also part 7 to Fugitive.

[Joker85]

Pretty good issue! The mortician plot is just OK, but Montoya's appearance and the fugitive puzzle piece were pretty good. Anyone else think that those were definitley Batman's feet on the tape?

[d4rkkn1ght]

I just read it and I thought it was a pretty cool concept. The Fugitive parts were pretty cool too. I kind of wish they would have a whole issue about the Fugitive storyline, rather than just two or three pages of it. I dont mind to much though.

[CadaverousEyes]

Eck. Other than the Fugitive part, it felt like a big waste of time, that could have been shown in half the number of pages. I was really looking forward to Batman vs zombies, and/or some insight into to the Mortician's character and motives. Didn't get either. I hope the next issue fares better.

[The Guard]

I think the tape was doctored. And I think Batman doctored it. To cover up whoever was sneaking around.

Anyway, The Mortician has some potential.

One complaint.

Batman disarmed three thugs with lightning speed. When has he been able to disarm them so fast that they still think they're holding guns?

[FLIPMODE]

Since he's learned the Way of the Ninja.

Robin 101 stunk big time.

If you look at the image of the intruder on the Tape, You can clearly see he's wearing a jacket or over coat.

SOOOOO, the actual killer IS on the Cover but Not the center of the Picture. We can tell the guy in the Center is wearing some sort of tight sweater.

However Also on the Cover is the Image of Some guy in a White Tie Walking away from Vespers Body. THAT guy is wearing the jacket. He's the Killer. Could be Zombie, he's the Only guy I remember that Wears a Tie.

[The Guard]

Since he's learned the Way of the Ninja.

Robin 101 stunk big time.

If you look at the image of the intruder on the Tape, You can clearly see he's wearing a jacket or over coat.

SOOOOO, the actual killer IS on the Cover but Not the center of the Picture. We can tell the guy in the Center is wearing some sort of tight sweater.

However Also on the Cover is the Image of Some guy in a White Tie Walking away from Vespers Body. THAT guy is wearing the jacket. He's the Killer. Could be Zombie, he's the Only guy I remember that Wears a Tie.

And that tells us...

[FLIPMODE]

For One it would tell us, Bane is involved.

Secondly Let's not Forget, that Banes 3 henchmen also learned Batman's I.D. From Bane. Bane openly told it to this guy named Bird. None of them were ever brought to justice like Bane was. They are still out there. The other 2 were Zombie and Trogg. So who's to say, they are'nt back with their own plan, ...or just working with Bane again. And it looks like Zombie is in that puzzle piece.

[FLIPMODE]

Or it's just Hugo Strange.

Strangly enough, he's made it back on my list.

Also is he dead??? Or still alive? Pre-Crisis I think he had a ghost.

Now what's his deal?

[BLACKHEART]

I loved this one. It's going to be a shame when Grayson departs the book.

This issue had a gritty 80's feel to it. I loved the art. It really help to set the mood of the dead world that was surrounding Batman. The two page splash in the back with Batman fighting the zombies was amazing. I wish they would make that a poster.

Did it look like Batman felt sorry for this guy at the end or what? He just wanted his parents back. Sound Familiar?

EDIT: This is actually issue 29. I must have hit 8 instead in the mist of being happy I finally got the pic uploaded.

[kid_flash]

YAWN! Boring zombie story, didn't even really read it. Missed the regular penciller.

[Joker85]

Not a great issue at all, the story was terrible and the art sucked!! I hope the regular guy returns next month.

[BLACKHEART]

You guys didn't like the art? Normally I would say Gotham Knights has the worst art of the bat books. I think the art was good for the tone of the story.

[Gotham Knights '68]

Robinson's artwork is great. I didn't mind the art in this issue 'cause it did fit the mood of the book...really looking forward to #30.

Devin will be missed greatly.

[BLACKHEART]

Was this her last issue?

[Clayface]

I didn't think this issue was all that great.
The story was rather rushed, and kinda boring. And the art was terrible - I couldn't even tell what was going on in half the panels. And I too missed the regular penciller.

[BLACKHEART]

Well to me the story seemed like it should have went 3 issues but they need to get the Murder storyline back into the book with Batman vs. Azrael.

[Joker85]

Was this Grayson's last issue, or is next months? I will miss her alot in this title, but she is moving to Nightwing, which I am thrilled about because I love this title and believe she could really breath fresh life into it.

[kid_flash]

Grayson's on for a few more months, not sure how many. At least through July.

[The Guard]

I'd be surprised if Devin Grayson actually wrote this. It didn't have any of her style in it. It didn't feel like Devin's writing.

The artist change between issues was not appreciated, and Batman looked like Etrigan.

And since when does the Batgrapple look like the gun from the movies?

PAGE 3, last panel. The worst rendition of Batman going up through a window I've ever seen.

The Batmobile looked too long, more like the movie version.

The whole thing looked like the artist tried to draw like ARHKAM ASYLUM.

I wasn't happy with this one.

[BLACKHEART]

I'm going to have to look at that. Anything that looks movie like will suffer my wrath.

[peterparker05]

Originally posted by kid_flash
YAWN! Boring zombie story, didn't even really read it. Missed the regular penciller.

How can you claim an issue to be boring if you haven't even read it?

[Gotham Knights '68]

I really enjoyed the black & white backup.

[The Guard]

The backup was great. I love looks into Bruce's past. Like the first GOTHAM KNIGHTS Black and White with Batman showing how his training aided him.

"It's people like you that made me what I am. And you'll never give me a reason to be anything else. Nice aftershave, Senator. Get out of the car."

[Sugar Daddy]

I just read this issue, and it was ok. I was kinda disappointed, I dunno, I just expected a better ending.

Can someone explain the one part where Batman and The Mortician are talking, page 18, where it says, "He's currently in police custody..." to "Fine."? I thought that Batman was saying all of that, but then it looks like quote bubble goes to the Mortician, but then the next page has Batman beating up the zombies, and then The Mortician gives his parents the serum. I got lost there. Thanks

[The Guard]

Batman is asking The Mortician to un-animate the rest of the zombies, or he will. When The Mortician doesn't answer, Batman gets pissed off and says "Fine", meaning, "I'll do it, then."

[Sugar Daddy]

Originally posted by The Guard
Batman is asking The Mortician to un-animate the rest of the zombies, or he will. When The Mortician doesn't answer, Batman gets pissed off and says "Fine", meaning, "I'll do it, then."

But, then, The Mortician just realizes that Batman is doing the right thing? Is that what happened?

[The Guard]

Yep. And injects his parents with the "Anti-Zombie Serum".

[Sugar Daddy]

Thanks

[BLACKHEART]

Like I've been doing with other talkback threads. I'm going to start this out with a preview then let everyone join in about the book.

Bruce Wayne: Fugitive Part 14

What’s eating Azrael? And why is he using those closest to Batman as punching bags? Join us for the first part of a story where the Agent of the Bat plans to take over Batman’s cowl…permanently! This story concludes in AZRAEL: AGENT OF THE BAT #91. Plus, a Batman Black & White backup, "Punchline," written by Doug Alexander with art by Rob Haynes (Daredevil: Ninja).

[CadaverousEyes]

Not bad. I liked Nightwing's concern for Alfred, Azrael's accusations, and that lovely shot of Batman choking the life out of Azrael on the last page. Didn't like the overuse of shadows or the pacing on the Batman/Azbat fight. Just what the heck was going on?

I hope Denny proves that he isn't completely burned out and has Bruce 'fess up to why he hasn't been denying the murder charges. Someone has to make him do it.

Punchline was funny. Now that's how you do a silent story. And presenting it in black and white made it feel like one of those really old comedy shorts. Good stuff.

[Trent Lane]

Great issue, Gotham Knights is starting to grow on me. I couldn't get Azrael cause believe it or not, my comic shop ran out of them! Gotta hunt it down for the conclusion, looks like it's going to be awesome!!!

[Gotham Knights '68]

I second that thought about Batman's hands around Az's throat!!! Love seeing Bruce clean Jean-Pauls clock!!! :D :cool:

Great Story - loved Nightwings line telling Oracle to have Leslie bring a dentist with her ( "he hit my Alfred??" ) Awesome!

Too bad Azrael was such a big disappointment as a follow up story though....sorry to dampen anyone's hopes - I still recommend picking it up to continue the story but I was kinda dissapointed with it!

Glad to see Robinson back - love his artwork and I'm REALLY gonna miss Devin on this title - I wish she would do both Nightwing and GK - hopefull she will make some return cameos!!!

B/W story was enjoyable!

And if it's a confession you want....get Azrael ;) :D

[BLACKHEART]

The art in this issue was much better than previous issues. I enjoyed this story a lot. It sucks because I was waiting to read the Azrael issue (which actually sold out :() before I came back to the talkback thread. Just incase there were spoilers.

The only thing I hated was when the fight got intense the issue ended.

Wait Gotham Knights 68 does the Azrael book impact this story or can I skip it?

[Gotham Knights '68]

Originally posted by SLIPKNOT
The art in this issue was much better than previous issues. I enjoyed this story a lot. It sucks because I was waiting to read the Azrael issue (which actually sold out :() before I came back to the talkback thread. Just incase there were spoilers.

The only thing I hated was when the fight got intense the issue ended.

Wait Gotham Knights 68 does the Azrael book impact this story or can I skip it?


Hello...
It kinda does fit in with BW:F - you have the basic finish to the fight sequence to start off - Bats has Az then Nightwing and Robin show up - beginning banter between Bats and Robin is pretty rough - Tim yells at Batman "Don't kill him" and Batman whips around at Robin and replys "You would think that - I don't want to kill him" (something like that, this is off the top of me head) - this distracts the three of them (pretty weak) and Az escapes - trashes the Batcave computer and flees. Bats follows - alone - Leslie chastises Bruce for bringing "Jean-Paul into his world of violence" (which I think is completely ridiculous, I enjoy Leslie in Catwoman allot more than in Az) - anyway Batman snaps at Leslie saying he is "no longer Bruce", which totally contradicts Batman 603 - soooo Batman catches up with Az and Harold where Az's new hideout is and he confronts J-P....
Major Fugitive spoiler next....oooooo :rolleyes:
During Batmans confrontation with Azrael - Jean-Paul snaps back outta the spell of St. Dumas and is all confused as to why he is wearing the Az-Bats gear - Batman says to J-P if he surrenders himself to the GCPD and Leslie he'll "share a secret with him that he hasn't told anyone else" He then proceeds to tell him that Bruce did not murder Vesper. But then the spirit of St Dumas returns and Az flips again - they start to fight when Az's castle explodes (oh yeah - Az wired the place as soon as he got back before Bruce got there) - whew!!!!

I really enjoyed the artwork and though it was a pretty good story, I'd get it because it has a puzzle piece and it is a follow-up to GK 30 !

[Clayface]

Originally posted by SLIPKNOT

Wait Gotham Knights 68 does the Azrael book impact this story or can I skip it?


Just read Gotham Knights '68's summary and skip it. Not worth the money at all, IMO. As pointed out, it contradicts what was shown in Batman 603, and the only thing that happens is a fight, and Batman saying he didn't kill Vesper - which we knew already anyway.

[BLACKHEART]

I'll skip it then. I knew not to buy Azrael. The real finish to this story will be in the next Gotham Knights.

Are Az writers lazy or just plain oblivious to what is going on? I realize the book itself is on a rocketship to nowhere but at least they could pay attention to the rest of the books.

[Gotham Knights '68]

And the book is going up to $2.95 :mad: :mad: :confused: :mad:

[Joker85]

I really enjoyed this issue, especially Nightwings part. The scenes with Batman and Azrael were also good, but I didn't feel the need to go out and buy the next Azrael issue. With the price of this comic going up, and Devin Grayson leaving, I'm not sure how much longer I'm going to keep this on my pull list.

[Sugar Daddy]

GK was a great issue, great art, storyline, and Nightwing's comments about Alfred were great.

Azrael was..eh.

Can someone refresh my memory as to why this issue contradicts Batman 603? Thanks

[Gotham Knights '68]

Last page .... Batman calls in to Oracle and says..."Oracle, this is Bruce" and she replies "what did you say"? It's the first time Batman refers to himself as Bruce since before the beginning of the whole Murderer/Fugitive storyline and is the turning point (as the title so aptly states) for the character.

In Az, he's blasting Leslie saying "there is no more Bruce" - I guess you can say this part of the story happened before he went to visit the old dying cop, but to me it was a step back in the story at this point - I mean Batman 603 came out what - like 3 weeks ago already!

[BLACKHEART]

Yeah Azreal in my opinion will join Impulse in the near future. I don't see why they don't just kill him off.

[BLACKHEART]

"Bruce Wayne: Fugitive" Part 17. Batman tracks down a lead that brings about a startling discovery: Who was behind the Bruce Wayne smear campaign and how much absolute power his enemy actually wields. Plus, a Batman Black & White backup, "Hands," written by Scott Peterson (BATGIRL) and illustrated by Danijel Zezelj (Captain America: Dead Man Running).

http://www.dccomics.com/directcurrents/comics/July_17/covers/batgk_31.jpg

[Kathy Kane]

whoa.... I knew it!!!
This issue hints that the killing of Vesper was part of a smear campaign, with orders coming from the White House!
I knew Luthor was involved, but it doesn't hint at who did killed Vesper and I wonder what Batman's gonna do about it???

[Clayface]

Well, the big "secret" was rather predictable, which was unfortunate, but, luckily, the story that gets us to that reveal at the end was fantastic. I absolutely loved the scenes with Bats taking down the platoon, and then stating how he can disable each and every one of the men. Harsh, but cool. Despite the predictable ending, a very good issue.

[Ms. Kitty]

What's everybody's thoughts on the B&W backup "Hands"? What's it about was it good? I'm getting my comics next week. :)

[Trent Lane]

Another really good story from this title... I figured Lex was in on it a while back, but now that we're sure, I can't wait to see the action Batman and/or Bruce takes against him... think Lex'll get a dose of his own medicine? Is his presidency safe? Hmmm.....

[Joker85]

Well, I really wasn't surprised that Lex was involved and it seemed kinda anticlimatic, but it was still a pretty good issue I thought. I'm just enjoying Grayson's work while she's still on the title.

[DerekPowers]

im really confussed with this issue.

first off, was the whole drug thing a continuation from the detective story a few issues back w/ ekin-tzu and david said?? and who is this amherst guy batman was after and who does he work for and what was his whole deal?? what was his business in gotham?

also, what exactely is lex luthor behind?? the drugs? a bruce wayne smear campaign?? what bruce wayne smear campaign is this?? i doubt hes behind vesper's murder because i doubt he knows batman's identity.

im just very confussed w/ this issue. it seems to be picking up on a story i have no knowledge of. if someone can explain this i'd greatly apprieciate it, im just alittle lost. :confused: peace.

[Clayface]

Originally posted by DerekPowers

first off, was the whole drug thing a continuation from the detective story a few issues back w/ ekin-tzu and david said?? and who is this amherst guy batman was after and who does he work for and what was his whole deal?? what was his business in gotham?

also, what exactely is lex luthor behind?? the drugs? a bruce wayne smear campaign?? what bruce wayne smear campaign is this?? i doubt hes behind vesper's murder because i doubt he knows batman's identity.



:confused:
Maybe you need to reread the issue again? Those questions are all answered in this very issue. Amherst is the guy Batman catches up with at the end of the issue. He's an agent for the government, and his job is to clean up things the government doesn't want public. The White House (in other words, the President, Lex Luthor) has ordered a smear campaign on Bruce(See all of the Murderer and Fugitive issues), including the murder of Vesper Fairchild, and Amherst was sent into Gotham to clean up the few loose ends. Thus Lex Luthor is behind everything we've seen happen in the Fugitive and Murderer storylines.

[DerekPowers]

how did batman figure it out? was he originally after amherst to investigate his framing or for the drugs, or both?? if he was after amherst to investigate the vesper murder, how did he know amherst was involved?

thanks for the info, this issue just kind of confussed me. plus i really wish it was a bat villian behind the frame-up. ras al ghul would have been better. sure, hes an obvious choice, but so is lex, and atleast ras is a bat villian.

so now lex knows both supes and bat's identity?? hmmm, i guess we'll have to wait and see if it develops into something good. peace.

[Clayface]

Originally posted by DerekPowers
how did batman figure it out? was he originally after amherst to investigate his framing or for the drugs, or both?? if he was after amherst to investigate the vesper murder, how did he know amherst was involved?


Re-read FUGITIVE Part 12 (Detective 771) - that storyline shows Batman on the trail of Branford Landis for his involvement with the drugs in Gotham. He finds out in that issue that Brandis was just an alias that Amherst was using. That's where he first hears the name Amherst. In FUGITIVE Part 16 (Detective #772), Amherst comes to Sasha in jail - trying to get her to sell out Bruce. He almost gets her to, but a visit from Alfred makes her realize this is the wrong thing to do. I would guess that Sahsa also passed Amherst's name on to Bruce/Batman through her visits with Alfred. Thus Bats knew that this Amherst guy was very important to what was going on.

[BatChick]

I really enjoyed this issue. I had talked to people who made me realize Lex was probably behind it. Though I have a hunch that some one who knows that Bruce is Batman is working with Lex on this.

And correct me if I'm wrong, though I know in this issue the frame up came up, but I didn't think Batman was working on clearing Bruce's name.

[witness]

I have an idea as to how and why Lex would do this. I think I read something a while back about this storyline creating things to come. In essence, Batman and Lex cross paths. That this would eventually lead into the World's finest team-up comic? Please correct me if I'm wrong. But does anyone see how long this thing has been going on? This "storyline" seems to have been going on for quite some time.

Here are my thoughts. I say that this is an intricate plot woven throughout many titles, many storylines. Someone mentioned that they would have been happier if it was a Batman villian that did this. Ah, yes. Derek Powers said this. Then Batchick says he/she has a hunch that a Batman villian is in on this as well. Derek Powers said also that he/she would have rather seen Ra's make this happen instead.

While Ra's is a Batman villian, isn't Talia in the same catergory? Wasn't Talia the head of Lexcorp for a while? Is she still under Luthor's employ? Perhaps Luthor didn't trust Talia so much and overheard her talking about Batman and his real identity! Or perhaps Talia just told him anyway!

After Luthor recieves this information, what does he do with it? He uses it of course. I mean, Lex Luthor has had some run-ins with the Batman before. First, in Rock Of Ages, Batman said that he would defeat Lex by using "corporate tactics". Batman succeded. Next, in No Man's Land, Lex was stopped from owning Gotham City by the Batman and by Bruce Wayne through his freind Lucius Fox. Once again, Batman succeded. Now, I have not read the Murderer, Fugitive stories yet. I'm waiting until they're all in one giant collection.

But after being humiliated by the Batman twice before, what would you do when you found out his secret identity? Lex did this perfectly. Just because Batman knows it came from the White House, doesn't mean he can retaliate Lex just yet. Also, Talia may just be framing Lex for her own gain. Maybe if she is still running Lexcorp, she'd want Lex out of the way. I don't really know. Anyhow, that's what I think.

Let me know if you have any other thoughts. Contradicting or not.

[Kathy Kane]

HMMM......

Good theory, if Lex already knows who superman is then he probably knows who Batman is, Talia could be the traitor. In fact I wonder if Fox' s heart attack might be part of the ruse as well. Without Fox the Wayne Corp. is in trouble, it also doesn't help that the CEO is on the lam.
But the real question on my mind is who really killed Fairchild, maybe it was Talia, she does know the cave, and his indentity.

[Gotham Knights '68]

Originally posted by DerekPowers
how did batman figure it out? was he originally after amherst to investigate his framing or for the drugs, or both?? if he was after amherst to investigate the vesper murder, how did he know amherst was involved?

thanks for the info, this issue just kind of confussed me. plus i really wish it was a bat villian behind the frame-up. ras al ghul would have been better. sure, hes an obvious choice, but so is lex, and atleast ras is a bat villian.

so now lex knows both supes and bat's identity?? hmmm, i guess we'll have to wait and see if it develops into something good. peace.

Hind-sight is always 20/20...

Read Batman 605 because,
Luthor does not know Bruce is Batman - he just wanted to ruin Bruce Wayne for screwing around with him during NML and in the Whitehouse with the kryptonite ring. He had Amherst hire an expert assasin which wound up being David Cain to frame Wayne - and as we all know David Cain knows who Bruce's alter ego is, therefore he tried to ruin Bats along with Wayne for various reasons...read Batgirl!!!!

[BLACKHEART]

I like how all of the books came together. Unlike other cross overs the ending worked and it all came together to conclude the story.

[BLACKHEART]

Join writer Devin Grayson for her final issue as we follow Bruce Wayne through a typical day to see how many lives Batman (and Bruce) have an impact upon. Plus, a Batman Black & White backup, "Joyride," written by Mark Askwith (THE PRISONER: SHATTERED VISAGE) and illustrated by Michael Wm. Kaluta (THE SHADOW).

http://www.dccomics.com/directcurrents/comics/Aug_21/covers/batgk_32.jpg

[Kathy Kane]

I rather liked this issue.
I've always wanted to see a day in the life of batman, and I liked the human perspective of the city of Gotham, the Batman Day scene was cute as was the pregnant women & husband taking a walk at night scene.

Also the back-up story was great with Kaluta pencils, I wish he'd do a fill-in issue of Batman I loved him on the Shadow.

[Ms. Kitty]

What was the back-up about? :)

[DKstormyknight]

I really liked this issue. It was a good read from start to finish. One part that particularly entrigued me was the Batman/Harvey/Two-Face chess game. I just think it was cool that they have them play every night. Anyway good pick up.

[Sugar Daddy]

Originally posted by DKstormyknight
I really liked this issue. It was a good read from start to finish. One part that particularly entrigued me was the Batman/Harvey/Two-Face chess game. I just think it was cool that they have them play every night. Anyway good pick up.

I agree. That was a cool scene. I think Two-Face is showing up in an upcoming Azrael, so they would have to explain how Two-Face broke out of prison.

Anyways, overall, this was a good issue. The Bruce Wayne part was ok. The Batman part was my favorite. It was really cool, imo.

I didn't like the backup story. The story just didn't work for me.

[Clayface]

While I generally enjoy Devin's stories, I was sort of disappointed by this issue. Everything in there hs been one before in the Batman comics, and I found myself rather bored while reading the issue. The chess game just reminded me of the X-Men movie (which reminded me of numerous other movies and stories in which they've done the villain&hero-playing-chess scene). And I didn't care of the back-up story at all. A rather disappointing issue overall for me.

[Kathy Kane]

The backup story had some kids who were trapped in a robotic dinosaur, piloted by a kid genuis, they are saved by Batman.
Kinda lame, but I think the pencils of Kulata make anything enjoyable.

[The Guard]

While I generally enjoy Devin's stories, I was sort of disappointed by this issue. Everything in there hs been one before in the Batman comics

Well what HASN'T been done? The point of this issue was to show that Batman was recognizing that he has other duties, and to show that he's at least TRYING to live a more well-rounded life.

and I found myself rather bored while reading the issue. The chess game just reminded me of the X-Men movie (which reminded me of numerous other movies and stories in which they've done the villain&hero-playing-chess scene).

Except that X-MEN had Professor X and Magneto playing an entire game, not just Batman stopping by, taking time out of his night to play a few moves.

And I didn't care of the back-up story at all.

Yeah, the backup story was...no comment.

[BLACKHEART]

I have to agree that this issue was good

I also have to agree that this issue wasn't that good

Kind of like Two Face there is a balance of good and bad with this issue

Sure everything has been done before but it was still cool to see it. It helps to show that Two Face is still human

I forget or don't remember, who is taking over this title next issue? That will be the tell tale on whether or not this book joins Shadow of the Bat, etc etc

[Sugar Daddy]

Originally posted by SLIPKNOT
I forget or don't remember, who is taking over this title next issue? That will be the tell tale on whether or not this book joins Shadow of the Bat, etc etc


Scott Beatty. Spoilers for anyone who doesn't read the previews.

BATMAN: GOTHAM KNIGHTS #33
Written by Scott Beatty and Darwyn Cooke; art by Mike Collins, Bill Wray and Bill Sienkiewicz; cover by Brian Bolland
In stores September 18. New writer Scott Beatty begins his run! The man who broke Batman’s back — Bane — comes to town and makes a startling statement! It’s a fact that, at first, Batman can’t seem to deny, causing the Dark Knight to team up with his long-time enemy to destroy the last of the Lazarus Pits. Plus, a Batman Black & White backup, “The Monument,” written by Darwyn Cooke (CATWOMAN: SELINA’S BIG SCORE) and illustrated by Bill Wray (MAD MAGAZINE).
40 pages, $2.75


--It looks like Bane might become a good guy, looking at this preview and the previews for Oct. and Nov.

[BLACKHEART]

I forgot all about that. I am really excited about this Bane story

[Clayface]

Originally posted by The Guard

Well what HASN'T been done?



Oh, I agree absolutely. But the point is, good writers can make it seem like it hasn't been done before. They give us something we've seen a hundred times before, but house it in something original so that we don't recognize it. And that's exactly what Grayson has always done in the past. But it just didn't work in this issue, for me at least.




Except that X-MEN had Professor X and Magneto playing an entire game, not just Batman stopping by, taking time out of his night to play a few moves.



Same concept, slightly different take. Not different enough to warrant praise, IMO. And I've seen the "one move at a time" bit done before as well, even in the Batman comics, though I can't site specific references off the top of my head.

[BLACKHEART]

I would just like to add something to the above...

The relationship between X and Magneto is a lot different than that of Batman and Two Face. I don't really think I need to explain either

[BLACKHEART]

Written by Scott Beatty and Darwyn Cooke; art by Mike Collins, Bill Wray and Bill Sienkiewicz; cover by Brian Bolland
New writer Scott Beatty begins his run! The man who broke Batman's back - Bane - comes to town and makes a startling statement! It's a fact that, at first, Batman can't seem to deny, causing the Dark Knight to team up with his long-time enemy to destroy the last of the Lazarus Pits. Plus, a Batman Black & White backup, "The Monument," written by Darwyn Cooke (CATWOMAN: SELINA'S BIG SCORE) and illustrated by Bill Wray (MAD MAGAZINE).

BATMAN | FC, 40pg. $2.75

http://www.dccomics.com/directcurrents/comics/Sept_18/covers/batga_33.jpg

[The Guard]

I wish I was surprised. I'm not. It's been hinted at since BANE OF THE DEMON, and even before. I'm not sure how to take this. It could be a good twist, and it could end up sucking.

I see it sucking.

[BLACKHEART]

Sucking probably since most big stories lately have, but!! That's a big but

I liked this issue. I don't really like how easy it was to destroy the pitt. I mean come on, it's the last pitt? (Yeah right!) shouldn't there have been a bigger showdown? Shouldn't have there have been more of an army defending it? I guess that part was a let down, but I do think this story over all was good because I'm excited for next month's issue.

I have a feeling that next month is going to be a good one.

I already like Scott better than Devin. I didn't even realize it till I checked the credits. I felt this issue was much better than any Gotham Knights under Devin's control. I felt the writing was about three levels higher than it normaly is and now I know why.

I think this story has some potential and I recommend anyone who doesn't normally buy Gotham Knights to pick this one up and the next one too. It's gonna be a slobberknocker! ;)

Also this book featured some good art to go with the story. I'm happy with this purchase and I think you will be too

[BLACKHEART]

BATMAN: GOTHAM KNIGHTS #34 previous | next

Written by Scott Beatty and Danielle Dwyer; art by Roger Robinson, C. Scott Morse and John Floyd; cover by Brian Bolland

Part 1 of "Tabula Rasa." A savage attack on an innocent woman triggers a development in the life of the Dark Knight. Meanwhile, Bruce Wayne is confronted by his old nemesis Bane who brings startling information about the late Thomas Wayne! Could this be the beginning of the strangest Dynamic Duo ever? Plus, a Batman Black & White backup, "The Delusions of Alfred Pennyworth," written by Danielle Dwyer and illustrated by C. Scott Morse (Magic Pickle).

BATMAN | Color,40 pg. $2.75

http://www.dccomics.com/directcurrents/comics/Oct_16/covers/Batmgk_34.jpg

[Kathy Kane]

I...I just can't seem to like this soap opera storyline.
Bane as Bruce's brother?!
It's just too weird...

[BLACKHEART]

Did you read this one yet Kathy? It looks like

They aren't really brothers.

I also liked the Huntress being brought into the storyline. I can't wait for the next issue. :(

[Kathy Kane]

Yeah I know they couldn't possibly be brothers but just the idea.
And how come Batman's letting Bane stay at the house, and hang out with him, it's like they've all just excepted the man who broke his back!

I'd like to see what the Huntress has to say about all this.

The back-story was very ghostly, just in time for Halloween.

[BLACKHEART]

I just want to see Huntress make the mistake of attacking Bane and see what Batman does if Bane knocks her on her can.

I also thought after making my last post. Why would the comic writers show Bane at the agency where the blood is being tested? That would almost tell us for sure that Bane is paying someone to make the blood match. It's too obvious. This could put weight onto the side of them being brothers, but I doubt it.

[Clayface]

Eh, I'm not really getting into this storyline either. The whole brothers thing is a big turn off. Hopefully they have enough sense not to really make them brothers in the end, but we'll see. Some of the Bane/Batman interaction in this issue was pretty good, but it was rather off to see Bane staying at the manor and such - seems really out of character for both Bane and Batman.

[BLACKHEART]

I think it is very much in both of their characters

Bruce puts his family above all and if Bane is family then Bane will be treated as such. So that means he'll be saying there and using whatever car he wants.

Bane is arrogant and he likes to play head games. I thought it was funny.

[Clayface]

Originally posted by SLIPKNOT
I think it is very much in both of their characters

Bruce puts his family above all and if Bane is family then Bane will be treated as such. So that means he'll be saying there and using whatever car he wants.



#1) Bruce/Batman would not have believed Bane at all. He would have been incredible suspicious, and he most certainly wouldn't be questioning his father like he is. He would have not believed Bane from the start, and would have demanded proof before letting Bane enter his home like he has.

#2) Even if Bane was related to him, he would still be leary of him and wouldn't take him in like this. Bane is the guy that single handedly ruined Bruce both physically and mentally. You don't just get over that so easily.



Originally posted by SLIPKNOT

Bane is arrogant and he likes to play head games. I thought it was funny.



He's also a cold calculating killer. Cute scenes of him walking around a baby ward just don't fit him.

[BLACKHEART]

Well I think Batman is accepting this revalation of Bane being his brother so well because it makes sense to him. How could someone take him down like they did? They would have to be like him. Bane is smart, very smart and he packs a punch. The two minds think alike so why couldn't the two be from the same blood?

Batman has accepted this because it now explains why Bane was able to take him out. They are from the same stuff!

I think Bane was walking around the baby ward because it was in his path to the DNA test. I don't think he was there to kiss any babies.

[Clayface]

Originally posted by SLIPKNOT
Well I think Batman is accepting this revalation of Bane being his brother so well because it makes sense to him. How could someone take him down like they did? They would have to be like him. Bane is smart, very smart and he packs a punch. The two minds think alike so why couldn't the two be from the same blood?

Batman has accepted this because it now explains why Bane was able to take him out. They are from the same stuff!



Eh, I don't buy that argument. It takes a lot more than shared genetics. Haven't you ever seen the movie Twins? ;)

I just think the whole idea of them being related is preposterous to begin with. And if I've had such a negative reaction to it, I would imagine the Bruce Wayne character taking it even less seriously and having an even more negative reaction to it. I would expect him to completely deny it, and be focused on figuring out what Bane's game is in all this. And I don't believe he'd have to play along to figure that out either. I would expect Batman to work tirelessly to prove that someone as evil as Bane could never be part of his family, rather than accept him in. I view Batman as much more sure of himself, his surroundings, and the events of his life, with a lot less self-doubt than what's presented here. I would have expected him to be much more cold and confrontational, rather than "Ummm, ok I guess".



Originally posted by SLIPKNOT

I think Bane was walking around the baby ward because it was in his path to the DNA test. I don't think he was there to kiss any babies.



Yeah, I know, but there are so many things wrong with just that scene alone. I mean, Bane is a pretty well known terrorist - I have a hard time believing he could walk around so freely, unrecognized and so care-free. I also have a hard time with his entire attitude in that scene. Bane may present a calm, cool exterior, but its a calm, cool, calculating exterior with a lot of seething anger underneath. Instead, he's just presented as some regular schmoe - he seems like he has no cares in the world, and I can imagine him being just any regular old civilian rather than the menacing baddie he's supposed to be. He acts so gentlemanly to the nurse, which seemed way out of character - he's always come across in the past as someone "above" the peasants and commoners. He'd ask for informaiton and expect an answer, without using any niceties. Here, he sounds more like Alfred than Bane. Bah, it gets me sick just thinking about it.

[BLACKHEART]

That might be true about the character of Bruce Wayne before he was on the lamb for killing his girlfriend. No one, not even those close to him believed he was innocent. He was defeated once again, this time by the system. Plus because of some annoying writers he had to deal with losing Sasha. Some big loss, yes I know.

These events have lead to a weaker Bruce Wayne. Someone who doesn't want to be the person of old and isolate himself from his friends and his family.

Since Bruce doesn't have any "real" close family he is ready to let someone in who may be his half brother.

Bane might be a terrorist, but how many people know what his face looks like?

[LadyM]

I don't care much for the new storyline either. Batman is a cynic . . . he would want proof that Bane is related to him. Proof beyond even DNA evidence, IMO. (Superboy is Superman's clone; no reason Cadmus couldn't have done the same to Batman, and I'm sure he knows it.)

Also, Batman has always believed that people are defined by their ACTIONS. I can't really believe he'd pal around with Bane even if he was his brother.

On the up side, I enjoyed the Jason Blood cameo in #33, especially when Jason tells Bane to take off his mask and simply says, "That is his true face," when Bane demands why Batman doesn't have to remove his cowl.

~LM~

[Clayface]

Originally posted by LM1313

Also, Batman has always believed that people are defined by their ACTIONS. I can't really believe he'd pal around with Bane even if he was his brother.



Yup, that's exactly what I'm saying - only you said it better. ;)

[Comic Book Boy]

dccomics.com has a great topic like this one too. It is a stupid storyline anyway it just doesn't make sense.
Bane Wayne :) ......bbaahahahahahahha :D

[BLACKHEART]

I still like it.

[Gotham Knights '68]

From above..."No one, not even those close to him believed he was innocent." from Slipknot...

OK - first off that is completely not true - Alfred and Dick absolutely had no doubt what-so-ever that Bruce did not murder Vesper - and I also believe that Babs in her heart knew it too, but she was just doing what "her boss" taught her to do - and that is be thorough and look at all the facts and factors involved - and that is what they did. And in the end everything came together. This was a major turning point regarding the character of Batman and more importantly of Bruce Wayne for arcs to come.

With Bane - ok, there is allot more to this character than just "They guy who broke Batmans back". They have really developed Bane through the Legacy story arc, where Bruce defeated Bane for the first time (not counting Vengeance of Bane II - but that is where he first defeated Bane post Knightfall) and the great mini-series Bane of the Demon was a fabulous Bane story. You get to see that there is actually a human side to this guy. He has kicked the venom and has become this really interesting, super-strong and brilliant minded addition to Batman's rouge gallery.

Remember During No Man's Land (lame summary ahead :rolleyes: ) - Luthor hires Bane to do a job for him in Gotham and Bruce makes a side deal with Bane to destroy the Hall of Records so Luthor couln't have ownership of Gotham. A brilliant plan by Bruce and Bane accepts - dissappearing before anyone could figure out what happend. Therefore, ole Brucie and Mr. Bane left off on somewhat humane terms. Then Bane goes on a "killing of the Lazarus Pits" kick to destroy Rha's immortality. We see a more humane Bane during a Birds of Prey arc where he falls for the lovely Miss Lance. All of these things adding to the characterization of Bane.

Now - both Bruce and Bane have a high respect for one another and in Bane's eyes they are "Even". I find it interesting to see what is Bane's ulterior motive here - what's his plan - what can he be after. And we all should know that Batman is aware of whats going on - he knows to "keep your greatest enemies close to you" - he is most definitely just playing along to see where this is going - that is what he does best. And hey, Batman gets an assist with severely damaging another of his greatest foes in Rhas Al Ghul as part of the deal.

I know I am curious to see where this goes and I think Scott Beatty has a pretty good feel for the whole "Bat-Team Dynamic" thing here paired with #33. I like the way he handles the whole team interaction thing. The dialect is right on for each character involved. I'm in :D

My $0.02 ;)

[BLACKHEART]

Actually I might be wrong, but at first even Dick had his doubts that Bruce was innocent. Remember the big fight?

[Clayface]

Originally posted by Gotham Knights '68

With Bane - ok, there is allot more to this character than just "They guy who broke Batmans back". They have really developed Bane through the Legacy story arc, where Bruce defeated Bane for the first time (not counting Vengeance of Bane II - but that is where he first defeated Bane post Knightfall) and the great mini-series Bane of the Demon was a fabulous Bane story. You get to see that there is actually a human side to this guy. He has kicked the venom and has become this really interesting, super-strong and brilliant minded addition to Batman's rouge gallery.



Ugh. Don't even get me started on those other storylines. I abolsutely despise the fact that they got Bane off the Venom, and, IMO, he became incredibly uninteresting once they did. He became nothing more than a cheap knock off of Ra's mixed with the usual underworld boss. Terrible, terrible thing they did to the character with that.

And the whole the storyline with Ra's. Gah. I'd prefer to believe that never happened. Another awful storyline for both characters, IMO.

[Gotham Knights '68]

Originally posted by SLIPKNOT
Actually I might be wrong, but at first even Dick had his doubts that Bruce was innocent. Remember the big fight?

Dick fought Bruce because he was sick of Bruce running from the people who care about him the most - why he was abandoning the Bruce Wayne identity, why he wasn't trying to clear his name, where did this leave "Dick Grayson" newly adopted son of Fugitive Bruce Wayne - who according to Batman at that time was "no longer going to exist 'cause he just gets in the way" rant. What about him - and Bruce still just left to be on his own for awhile. He completely seperated himself from everone, with no explanations - this just really pissed him off and he blew up by just going after Bruce - He let him get one shot in, and then said only the first one is free kinda thing and he just let him release his anger as they so acrobatically flew throughout the Bat-cave in some amazing McDaniels art work - I mean it really wasn't a big "fight" in terms of actual physical damage to either person, as it was hyped up to be.

And remember - there's ever-faithful Alfred.

Clayface - sorry we don't see eye to eye on Bane and Rha's - but this is what makes the world go around. IMO - I loved all those stories - the No Man's Land Deal was awesome.

[Beyond Batman]

I think some of you are kind of missing the underlining point of this story... Of course having Bane as Bruce's half-brother would be proposterous but what I think the message they wanted to convey was the suspiscion of Thomas Wayne's extramarital affairs. And not only limited to the extent of Bane, but what if... what if Bruce had an illigitimate sibling somewhere in the world???

Think about it, Thomas Wayne, a handsome debinaire with riches beyond beleif. What lady could resist? Hell, Bruce is a spitting image of his father, socially, and look at the amount of women throwing themselves at his mercy. So maybe Batman's not pondering whether or not Bane is his half brother per se, rather, did his father commit adultry, cheating on his beloved wife. Or in lamance terms, was Thomas Wayne a player???

[BeastBoyWonder]

Bruce Wayne acts like a player mainly to conceal his true identity...all of his serious relationships seem to come in conflict with Batman. I think that if Thomas Wayne were to be portrayed as a "player", it might remove some of the impact of the murder of Wayne's parents, because then they might not seem such perfect, loving individuals that Bruce percieved them as when he was eight or whatever.

[Clayface]

Yeah, exactly. I think that making Thomas Wayne an adulterer (if they do make him one) is taking away from the mythos. And, I have a hard time believing that Bruce would doubt his father that much that easily - just based on something one of his greatest foes claims.

[BLACKHEART]

Well making Thmoas cheat on his wife brings a modern feel to the story. It makes the mythos less outdated by changes in the culture.

[The Guard]

I just got this issue, so bear with me:

Scott Beatty has a knack for the human side of our favorite characters, which is cool. I loved the Bane training sequence, and the dialogue, and how Nightwing ended the fight.

The rape scene was powerful, because it is seldom done. Usually Batman or The Huntress or someone stops it. But like many, I don't think this was a "rape" rape. I think she wanted it to purge something. The wording that goes along with it just makes me think she wanted it, or needed it: "Deception. Desperation. Repression. Darkness. Escape. Evil. Maybe RELEASE is a better word for it."

I found it kind of odd that Leslie could see through the tinted windows of The Batmobile AND make out Bane as it rocketed past. Whether she knew about the situation or not.

Sleeping in the manor? I don't mind it much. It's not like the front door's unlocked, and all of them are trained to wake up if someone busts down the door or something. As for Bruce wearing the Batsuit in the manor...he did it all the time in the late eighties and early nineties. He seems to be going back to that attitude a little while keeping the edge, which is cool.

"The blood tests will confirm soon what you already know..."

Great line. And we all know what it means. We saw something like it awhile ago in BATMAN when Brubaker explored Bruce's father. I think the line Batman had at the end was "How could I have doubted you?"

The tatoo thing was cool. In a world full of semi-realistic things, I think it works. We know about nanobots. They've been used in JLA before. it just seems like a cool idea. And gives new meaning to her term: "My mark."

Bane looking in on the baby was great. "I know how you feel".

The labeled test tubes. Can't get past that. I don't think Bruce would have a DNA test done in a public facility. Perhaps it's Bruce's way of telling Bane: "I know you're up to something. And I knew my father."

The scene with The Huntress was one I'd been waiting to see. I'd hoped that the Batwriters wouldn't forget about her. Looks like they didn't. It's a good plot twist, and she has a point. Then again, she doesn't know what's going on. And it's not that Batman is working with a killer that should bother her. After all, he worked with her after he knew she had killed. But it seems to me, that every time Batman has told Bane "Stop!" or not to kill, that Bane has complied. Good issue, overall.

[BLACKHEART]

Written by Scott Beatty and Brian Azzarello; art by Roger Robinson, Jim Mahfood and John Floyd; cover by Brian Bolland

Part 2 of "Tabula Rasa." Gotham's newest villain, the woman known as Pix, is hunting down the men who destroyed her life while Bane and Batman are left following the trail of bodies. Meanwhile, Batman is still reeling from Bane's stunning revelation last issue. Will this change Bane's status as a villain? Plus, a Batman Black & White backup, "Cornered," written by Brian Azzarello (100 BULLETS) and illustrated by Jim Mahfood (Ultimate Marvel Team-Up).

BATMAN | Color, 40 pg. $2.75

http://www.dccomics.com/directcurrents/comics/Nov_20/covers/batgk_35.jpg

[BLACKHEART]

Well I must say that this isn't quite the issue that I expected. It wasn't horrible, just wasn't what I expected. Maybe next issue

[Gotham Knights '68]

True....I usually don't like to fully judge certain arcs before they are completed, just to see where they are going with the story - but there is a lotta stuff going on right now that is unclear.

One thing though, (remember back to our conversations / posts from GK 34) - on page 5 of #35 Oracle brings up Banes involvement with Bruce during the NML to Cassandra, so you can see where & why Bruce is acting "civil" towards Bane - which is what I was trying to point out previously. There is more to this than meets the eye however and I for one am curious to see how this all plays out.

As a side note, I think Scott Beaty really has a great feel for all the participants in the Bat-Family. I am loving the way he is writing Alfred especially - very sarcastic, witty and straight to the point! Great stuff.

[BLACKHEART]

I'd say Batman wouldn't admit it, but he has to have some kind of respect for Bane as an oppenent as well. So he's giving him the benefit of the doubt till he does something.

[Gotham Knights '68]

Absolutely....I'd love to see them have it out with Bruce laying a serious beating on Bane :D

[BLACKHEART]

Written by Scott Beatty and Mike Mignola; art by Roger Robinson, Troy Nixey and John Floyd; cover by Brian Bolland
Guest-starring Robin and Nightwing! Bane has made a startling claim, and this issue we learn the truth about his parentage once and for all. First, he and Batman must stop Gotham's newest villain, Pix, whose quest for vengeance already has spilled blood. And wait until you see the suprising decision Batman makes about Bane's fate! Plus, a Batman Black & White backup, "Gotham Gasworks," written by Mike Mignola (Hellboy) and illustrated by Troy Nixey (Trout, HARLEY QUINN).

http://www.dccomics.com/directcurrents/comics/dec_02/images/pic_medbgk36cvr.jpg

[BLACKHEART]

Well it's over. I can't say that I care for the new addition to the rogue's gallery. Hopefully it isn't a long stay.

[Ms. Kitty]

WOAH! Someone went crazy with the "human canvas" thing . :eek: I like the hair and leather. I'm going to pick up my comics during the last week of this month.

[Russkafin]

I take it the "Next Month" blurb on the final page is a misprint, right? It says something to the effect of "Batman finds out if Bane is really his brother while finally stopping Pix" or whatever... but that's THIS issue, not next issue, right? I mean unless there is a very redundant epilogue to the story next month.

I am thinking of cutting back on some of the titles I pick up, and now that Devin Grayson is gone, I don't think Gotham Knights is gonna make the cut.

[Gotham Knights '68]

Yes, the blurb at the end was a mistake.

I liked the arc. Nothing really surprising but it definitely has laid the ground work to something much bigger down the line with Bane. although I have no idea what.

I like Scott Beatty so far. I like seeing all the Gotham Knights within this title and the art work has been great. Each character seems to be written really well - Beatty is pretty much dead on with everyone. Its a great book and I'm really looking forward to the upcoming Huntress arc!

[Sugar Daddy]

Eh, it was ok, nothing special. And I'm thinking about cutting this title too.

[jgully]

is bane bruce's bro i'm gonna get batman #610 tom and only
stand one batman book at a time so i would like to kno

[The Guard]

No. They are genetically unrelated.

[BLACKHEART]

The title does need to be improved a bit but I'm not thinking about dropping just yet.

[The Guard]

If nothing else, Scott Beatty has a wonderful grasp on what makes each character tick, and strong dialogue at times. And the art by Robinson is great. I'm giving GOTHAM KNIGHTS a shot.

[Clayface]

BATMAN: GOTHAM KNIGHTS #37

http://www.dccomics.com/directcurrents/comics/jan_03/images/pic_medbgk37cvr.jpg (http://comics.toonzone.net/solicitations/2003-01/batman/bgk37.jpg)

COVER: Brain Bolland
WRITERS: Scott Beatty and Mike Carey
ART BY: Roger Robinson, Steve Mannion, John Floyd and Hilary Barta
STORY:When Bruce Wayne was accused of murder, Spoiler's training with Batman suddenly ceased. Now, having been rejected by the Birds of Prey as well, Spoiler wants answers, and she's willing to confront Batman to get them. But when a Kobra terrorist rolls into town, she's thrust into a mission that may well be over her head! Plus, a Batman Black & White back-up, "Fear is the Key," written by Mike Carey (LUCIFER, HELLBLAZER) and illustrated by Steve Mannion and Hilary Barta.

Comments?

[BLACKHEART]

Written by Scott Beatty and Ann Nocenti; art by Roger Robinson, John Floyd, and John Bolton; cover by Brian Bolland
The start of a new storyline that will change the Huntress forever! Checkmate has had its missions in Gotham thwarted time and again by Batman, and the covert agency has had enough. But when a dangerous situation within the Checkmate ranks forces David Said to enlist outside helpÉthe target is the Huntress!

BATMAN | 40pg. | Color | $2.75
Available on February 19th, 2003

http://www.dccomics.com/directcurrents/comics/feb_03/images/pic_medbgk38cvr.jpg

[BLACKHEART]

I want to complain, complain, and complain. I don't like the direction this book is going. It's becoming, I don't know... ANNOYING

It smells of Birds of Prey and no, I'm not talking about the comic book. I could have swore in the comic books that I've been reading the last few years that Batman doesn't tolerate nor is she sanctioned to be in his city.

So what's with all of this "kid" stuff? I think the last time we saw Huntress in Gotham Knights she punched or kicked Batman for letting Bane tag along. Bottom line there is no love loss between the two. Huntress no longer cares about Batman's approval nor does Batman care that she breathes other than that she disturbs his actions in his city.

So why is it that the Huntress seems to be just as important as Orcale to the Bat Family right now?

"Sister?"

Can you hear the sounds of my barfing?

And what's with the Jim Lee costume on the cover and the OLD Huntress costumed on the inside?


Sure you can go on and on about how Checkmate was screwing with her head with the help of Scarecrow but that doesn't explain Batman's dialogue with Alfred.

I realize I was one of the few who liked Devin Grayson's run with this book but it just goes to show how good she was when this creative team is dropping the ball. When they took over this book they should have done a little of research instead of turning on the TV. I am sure someone will point out the page where I missed Batman and Huntress hugging and making everything right between them. I'm sure I forgot about this like I forgot Montoya has a brother named Benny.

A little back to the story... I like the character of the Huntress and if they turn her into a Checkmate zombie I'll be pissed. Give it up, they aren't S.H.I.E.L.D.

[Green-Ghost]

Originally posted by BLACKHEART

And what's with the Jim Lee costume on the cover and the OLD Huntress costumed on the inside?


OH NO :eek: :mad:
I have only ordered all the GK books with Huntress because I want to see the new costume
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Ms. Kitty]

Man I'm glad I didn't go to the comic shop yet. :( This sucks *****!! :mad:

[Clayface]

I'm totally with BLACKHEART here. This title took a nose dive after Devin Grayson left. Scott Beatty has completely thrown out and ignored major continuity points time and again on this title, and its bugging the heck out of me. The costume mistake is just baffling to me. If this continues much longer, this is one title I'll be dropping from my pull list.

[BLACKHEART]

Well Green Ghost if you squint really hard and look at the cover for a long period of time you'll see a glimpse of it, but once you open the book expect a rude awakeining.

He seems to be ignoring everything and to me it seems like he just watched a few episodes of Bird's of Prey for his references. This is the most consideration I've put into dropping a title in sometime. I would hate to drop this book since I've been buying it from day one. When this guy's run is over, maybe I could come back to it, assuming there is something to come back to. DC is famous for creating these Bat subtitles and then dropping them and having them brought back as something else. It's happened before with Shadow of the Bat which was canned for this one.

I guess I'm stupid to assume that the people who write the Bat titles ever sit around and talk about what each other is doing so that the product flows from title to title. I am not talking about cross overs but when you have two people going at each other's throats in one book and in the other they are hugging and kissing it just pisses me off. At the same time when someone is writing about relationships that we can call Elseworlds and putting them into the main stream continunity it's just annoying. I like my stories and time line's to be uniform.

The only thing I can say about the cover and the costume without having the book in front of me is that maybe they have someone different who does the covers. That's not too uncommon in the comic. However, the costume on the inside hasn't been seen for years. So I would forgive them just a little bit more if it was her last costume and not the one before that. Again does DC or anyone educate the people on the product or do they just toss them out and let them do a book?

Another thing, is everyone that impressed with Jim Lee at DC that they don't pay attention to anything else?

[Gotham Knights '68]

Did you guys actually read this issue or just flip through the pages???? If you did read this you would obviously know that the Huntress / Helena was captured and drugged by Checkmate. David Said enlisted the help of Scarecrow and the Mad Hatter to analyze her actions and psychosis while under the influence of the drugs they gave her. She WAS NOT wearing her old uniform, she was reminicing/having drug induced flashbacks about her previous encounters with Robin (which was back from Robin III in late '90 where that was her costume at the time) and her "involvement" with Nightwing (4 part mini-series from Devin Grayson and Greg Land). The whole "big sister"comments stem from the Robin III miniseries where Tim had a pretty good relationship with the Huntress and worked well with her behind Batmans back.

Being a big Huntress fan, you should also know that she has always secretely wanted to be accepted by Batman. And that is what Checkmate is analyzing right now - that she has all this pent up anger and all of these male acceptance issues. Her secret wish to accepted by Batman was most obvious during No Man's Land - a story arc where she came through big time and gained somewhat of Batmans respect. I'm not going to rehash the whole NML thing but if you read it you know what I'm talking about.

Lets face it, we all know Gotham is Batman's city and if he really did not want Huntress operating in Gotham he would have stopped her a long time ago - but the fact remains that he hasn't. Remember, Batman sponsored her membership into the JLA for awhile. He knows she is a big help without ever admitting it to her - he does that with his whole team. And even though Batman does not agree with her methods and doesn't really accept her as a part of his "Family" - he does have somewhat of a respect for her part in Gotham. We also see this in the recent "in continuity" story arc "Batman: Family" where he pays the Huntress a visit and enlists her help in his fight against the enemy. And I think this current GK's story arc will confirm this and may even unite her with the Bat-Family in the end. Especially with Spoiler being out of the picture at least for the time being.

Someone please tell me where the obvious continuity faults are??? To me it seems to be flowing along within all continuity boundaries. You have 3 new storyline forming here, What's wrong with Alfred?? Whats the story with the Child Protection Agency looking into Bruce Wayne's recent Murder charges, bringing up Jason Todd was something I did not see coming - will they cause a problem with Bruce's recent adoption of Dick Grayson??? And then we have the whole Huntress being recruited by Checkmate. Checkmate is obviously out to bring Batman down so they can get control of Gotham and they are trying to recruit members of the Bat Team to help them, or at least the ones they think they can get to. They tried it with Sasha, and now they are trying to get the Huntress. BTW, the body being creamated in the beginning, could that have been Sasha? - they said it was someone who knew what they were getting into and the body certainly resembled Sasha's sort of, anyway, it could be!!! You also have "The Question's" involvement, which flows directly from the "Cry for Blood" Huntress mini-series.

I really fail to see where this replicates anything from the Birds of Prey TV series garbage. And what does Jim Lee's artwork have to do with any of this???

Opinions are just that and everyone is entitled to their own and that is cool - but at least get the facts straight on what you are bashing and back them up with some facts for discussion :D .

[BLACKHEART]

Don't ever plan on reading an issue of Robin. I'll respond better tomorrow when I have the issue in my hand and see just how far along in her "flashback" that costume pops up. And this "sister" thing is new to me. I've never seen Robin respond to her like that.

[Clayface]

LOL! My, that was quite a fanboyish rant there, Gotham Knights! ;) :p

Seriously though, you bring up some valid points, and I'll try to address them.




Originally posted by Gotham Knights '68
Did you guys actually read this issue or just flip through the pages???? If you did read this you would obviously know that the Huntress / Helena was captured and drugged by Checkmate. David Said enlisted the help of Scarecrow and the Mad Hatter to analyze her actions and psychosis while under the influence of the drugs they gave her.



Yes, of course I knew all this.




She WAS NOT wearing her old uniform, she was reminicing/having drug induced flashbacks about her previous encounters with Robin (which was back from Robin III in late '90 where that was her costume at the time) and her "involvement" with Nightwing (4 part mini-series from Devin Grayson and Greg Land). The whole "big sister"comments stem from the Robin III miniseries where Tim had a pretty good relationship with the Huntress and worked well with her behind Batmans back.



This I didn't know. I was not aware that the first scenes were memories - when I read it I saw them as strictly hallucinations, and hallucinations of what she believed to be her life in real time. Thus, I thought the images she was seeing (at least during the Robin scenes) were supposed to be what she thought she was doing in her current life. And I would have expected her to have imagined herself in the new costume in her current life. I had no idea this was supposed to be a flashback, and thus it made no sense to me that she was in her old costume. Rereading it, I guess I can see where you're coming from, but since I don't have any memories of the Robin III series, I had no way know recognizing the scene as a flashback. Go back and reread it, thinking about it from the standpoint of someone with no memeroy of those series, and you'll see that there's no clear indication this was a flashback for those of us not "in the know".

I've never read the mini-series that showed Huntress' relationship to Dick either, so those scenes were also new to me. I figured they were something that was covered in the Nightwing comic, and so it didn't phase me when her captors talked about it like it had really happened.




Being a big Huntress fan, you should also know that she has always secretely wanted to be accepted by Batman. And that is what Checkmate is analyzing right now - that she has all this pent up anger and all of these male acceptance issues. Her secret wish to accepted by Batman was most obvious during No Man's Land - a story arc where she came through big time and gained somewhat of Batmans respect. I'm not going to rehash the whole NML thing but if you read it you know what I'm talking about.


I do know what you're talking about, but I also know that all of the Huntress appearances I've read since No Man's Land have shown major friction between Batman and Huntress, just as Blackheart has said. The stuff that I've read indicated to me that their relationship was on the decline, fast. Then, suddenly, he's walking around referring to her as one of "the kids", and this seemed way out of character to me.



Lets face it, we all know Gotham is Batman's city and if he really did not want Huntress operating in Gotham he would have stopped her a long time ago - but the fact remains that he hasn't.



And I've always read that differently - I've never seen it as "he hasn't stopped her because he likes her". I've always read it as he's never stopped her because (#1) she's not really doing any major damage to his city, (#2) she's got/had relationships with his other "kids", and (#3) he's got better things to do with his time than chase out a wannabe. So, he's just never bothered to get rid of her. The idea that he's suddenly fond of her, to the point of calling her one of the "kids" is totally alien to me.




Remember, Batman sponsored her membership into the JLA for awhile.



News to me. And more confirmaiton that I don't want to and will not bother reading JLA. I've never cared for the way Batman is portrayed in the JLA comics, and plot points like that confirm my feelings.

This may hit at the heart of my problem with Beatty - he writes Batman as he would act in JLA, which, IMO, is out of character.




He knows she is a big help without ever admitting it to her - he does that with his whole team. And even though Batman does not agree with her methods and doesn't really accept her as a part of his "Family" - he does have somewhat of a respect for her part in Gotham.



Again, I've never seen it that way, and I can't really think of any good examples in the mainstream (read: non-JLA type comics) that have portrayed their relationship that way. Other than the slight show of respect he gave Huntress in No Man's Land, which he's seemingly refuted in the comics since then. It's always seemed to me that he's tolerated her, not respected her.




We also see this in the recent "in continuity" story arc "Batman: Family" where he pays the Huntress a visit and enlists her help in his fight against the enemy.



A storyline I didn't bother to read, since I couldn't stand the first couple issues. Terrible writing, IMO.




And I think this current GK's story arc will confirm this and may even unite her with the Bat-Family in the end. Especially with Spoiler being out of the picture at least for the time being.

Someone please tell me where the obvious continuity faults are??? To me it seems to be flowing along within all continuity boundaries.



Perhaps continuity wasn't the right word for me to choose. I should have said something more along the lines of characterization. And that's one of my big problems with Beatty's writing - he writes a Batman that just doesn't react like I would expect. He writes a Batman that does things that are completely couter-intuitive and out of character for the Batman I know and love. I never could accept his portrayal of the Batman/Bane relationship in that storyline a while back, and I can't buy into his characterization of Batman and his relationship to Huntress here.




You have 3 new storyline forming here, What's wrong with Alfred??



Ugh. Don't even get me started on that terrible subplot. All I can think of is a certain horribly-written Batman movie in which Alfred was sick.




Whats the story with the Child Protection Agency looking into Bruce Wayne's recent Murder charges, bringing up Jason Todd was something I did not see coming - will they cause a problem with Bruce's recent adoption of Dick Grayson???



I did find it interesting that Jason Todd was brought up, but I don't think it would have any impact on the adoption of Dick - Dick's an adult, and thus the CPA isn't going to have any say in that adoption.




And then we have the whole Huntress being recruited by Checkmate. Checkmate is obviously out to bring Batman down so they can get control of Gotham and they are trying to recruit members of the Bat Team to help them, or at least the ones they think they can get to. They tried it with Sasha, and now they are trying to get the Huntress.



Yeah, and frankly, I'm finding this subplot incredibly uninteresting. I liked it when it Sasha, but now its gotten stale fast. I'm ready to move on to something else.




BTW, the body being creamated in the beginning, could that have been Sasha? - they said it was someone who knew what they were getting into and the body certainly resembled Sasha's sort of, anyway, it could be!!! You also have "The Question's" involvement, which flows directly from the "Cry for Blood" Huntress mini-series.



Don't know about the Sasha thing. I hope not. Getting rid of a good character like that would give me yet another reason not to like Beatty's work.

I did, however, like the appearance of The Question.

[Samhaine]

When did Huntress start fighting crime again? This has been bugging me for awhile, as it seems the (excellent) Batman/Huntress miniseries has been pretty much ignored in the main series, and that's a shame. Huntress actually had some great character evolution there.

Now, I haven't read this issue (probably won't for a week), but I don't think the Robin scenes would bother me. Their relationship wasn't only in Robin III, but in 'Tec and SotB long after Contagion, so it was definately shown.

By the way, I absolutely hate her new costume. Then again, I don't think Jim Lee can draw very well, so anything he designs is bound to be bad (Croc anyone?), but this is not the thread to talk about this in.

I always assumed that after the Cry for Blood mini, Helena and Bats were on good terms, and every time I read something to the contrary I've had a bad reaction. Seems I'm the only one who remembers it. Oh, well, I still have 'Tec and Gotham Central (and Nightwing and Robin, to an extant, but did you hear what Jon Lewis is going to do to Spoiler? blasphamy...)

[Gotham Knights '68]

Originally posted by Samhaine
When did Huntress start fighting crime again? This has been bugging me for awhile, as it seems the (excellent) Batman/Huntress miniseries has been pretty much ignored in the main series, and that's a shame. Huntress actually had some great character evolution there.

Absolutely Agree and I'm glad someone else stated this - I mentioned "Cry for Blood" in my previous post above, but you are exactly right - after Cry for Blood, Helena tossed her costume into the river and it looked like that was it 'cause her "mission" as the Huntress was completed. I've been waiting until this day for the follow up story. Great character evolution for Helena that was just dropped ?!?! Helena / Huntress then just popped up in the pages of Detective Comics when she met up with Sasha, who was in her own uniform at the time. No explanation involving the events of Cry for Blood. However, I'm thinking that this current arc in Gotham Knights will finally address this, especially with the appearance of The Question.

Now, I haven't read this issue (probably won't for a week), but I don't think the Robin scenes would bother me. Their relationship wasn't only in Robin III, but in 'Tec and SotB long after Contagion, so it was definately shown.

Very true again! I just mention Robin III 'cause that was the first time they met and worked together, which has been for quite some time now. And it was just Helena Halucinating under the drugs given to her by Checkmate.

By the way, I absolutely hate her new costume. Then again, I don't think Jim Lee can draw very well, so anything he designs is bound to be bad (Croc anyone?), but this is not the thread to talk about this in.

I still find it hard to believe that you don't like Jim Lee's art - but that's your opinion and its all good :) But in regards to Croc, they did mention that he has some genetic mutation thing going on that is turning him more into a monster - so at least there is somewhat of an explanation.

I always assumed that after the Cry for Blood mini, Helena and Bats were on good terms, and every time I read something to the contrary I've had a bad reaction. Seems I'm the only one who remembers it. Oh, well, I still have 'Tec and Gotham Central (and Nightwing and Robin, to an extant, but did you hear what Jon Lewis is going to do to Spoiler? blasphamy...)

As I said above I already mentioned Cry for Blood and again, you are right on. In addition to that was No Man's Land and the more recent "Batman: Family" arc where you can see Batman and Huntress getting along better. I do believe this arc will finally see Huntress becoming a real part of the Batman Family - at least that is what I'm hoping for !!!

What is Lewis going to do to Spoiler??? I just read Robin 111 last night and it does seem likes he is taking her down a dark path so to speak...Share the dirt :p

[Gotham Knights '68]

Originally posted by Clayface

LOL! My, that was quite a fanboyish rant there, Gotham Knights! ;) :p

Seriously though, you bring up some valid points, and I'll try to address them.


LOL - Great responce and thanks for the great convo! I love talking in detail about comics, especially the Batman related Books :D

[/color]


Yes, of course I knew all this.


WHEW!!! - I just read what Blackheart wrote regarding the old costume and I gotta admit when I first bought it and flipped through the pages I noticed the old costume and was like what is this - BUT after I read it, it all made sence

[/b][/color]


This I didn't know. I was not aware that the first scenes were memories - when I read it I saw them as strictly hallucinations, and hallucinations of what she believed to be her life in real time. Thus, I thought the images she was seeing (at least during the Robin scenes) were supposed to be what she thought she was doing in her current life. And I would have expected her to have imagined herself in the new costume in her current life. I had no idea this was supposed to be a flashback, and thus it made no sense to me that she was in her old costume. Rereading it, I guess I can see where you're coming from, but since I don't have any memories of the Robin III series, I had no way know recognizing the scene as a flashback. Go back and reread it, thinking about it from the standpoint of someone with no memeroy of those series, and you'll see that there's no clear indication this was a flashback for those of us not "in the know".

I've never read the mini-series that showed Huntress' relationship to Dick either, so those scenes were also new to me. I figured they were something that was covered in the Nightwing comic, and so it didn't phase me when her captors talked about it like it had really happened.


AHHHH - Fair enough, and now you know!!! A little history lesson from stuff over 10 years ago!!! If you get the chance to find the Nightwing / Huntress mini-series (4 parts) I highly recommend picking this up, its a great read from Devin Grayson with AMAZING art from Greg Land :D The mini was from 1997 or 1998 I think :confused:
[/b][/color]


I do know what you're talking about, but I also know that all of the Huntress appearances I've read since No Man's Land have shown major friction between Batman and Huntress, just as Blackheart has said. The stuff that I've read indicated to me that their relationship was on the decline, fast. Then, suddenly, he's walking around referring to her as one of "the kids", and this seemed way out of character to me.


And I've always read that differently - I've never seen it as "he hasn't stopped her because he likes her". I've always read it as he's never stopped her because (#1) she's not really doing any major damage to his city, (#2) she's got/had relationships with his other "kids", and (#3) he's got better things to do with his time than chase out a wannabe. So, he's just never bothered to get rid of her. The idea that he's suddenly fond of her, to the point of calling her one of the "kids" is totally alien to me.


I gotta admit I must have missed where Bruce referred to Huntress as one of his "kids" and that is a bit of a stretch, but as we have stated his relationship with Huntress has gotten better recently - we saw this most recently in Batman - Family. And I really think that if he really had a true problem with Huntress he would have dealt with it already. The definitely have this Fire and Ice thing oing on :p


News to me. And more confirmaiton that I don't want to and will not bother reading JLA. I've never cared for the way Batman is portrayed in the JLA comics, and plot points like that confirm my feelings.

This may hit at the heart of my problem with Beatty - he writes Batman as he would act in JLA, which, IMO, is out of character.


Well, this happened a few years ago back in 1997-98 I think, when Huntress was a part of the JLA. I'm surprised, I actually like Bats in the JLA, but on these boards it seems JLA fans are in the minority and I'm one of them :rolleyes:


Again, I've never seen it that way, and I can't really think of any good examples in the mainstream (read: non-JLA type comics) that have portrayed their relationship that way. Other than the slight show of respect he gave Huntress in No Man's Land, which he's seemingly refuted in the comics since then. It's always seemed to me that he's tolerated her, not respected her.


Ah well - we can still agree to disagree to an extent here, but you are still on the x-mas card list :p


Perhaps continuity wasn't the right word for me to choose. I should have said something more along the lines of characterization. And that's one of my big problems with Beatty's writing - he writes a Batman that just doesn't react like I would expect. He writes a Batman that does things that are completely couter-intuitive and out of character for the Batman I know and love. I never could accept his portrayal of the Batman/Bane relationship in that storyline a while back, and I can't buy into his characterization of Batman and his relationship to Huntress here.


Here is where I can see your point! I do feel Beatty is a bit off on his characterization - at least in regards to Bruce. I have never seen Bruce "lose it" as he did when he tossed the chess board - that would just NEVER happen and it was very out of character. The Bane thing was a little tough to swallow too, but I choose to believe he just played it cool, calm and collective just in case, but I can still see your point there, although I didn't mind it as much 'cause I really like the character of Bane.


Ugh. Don't even get me started on that terrible subplot. All I can think of is a certain horribly-written Batman movie in which Alfred was sick.


LMAO - funny but I kinda thought the same thing - and that is just horrible cause those movies were the worst ever - but I'm hoping that this is done much much better than that garbage :rolleyes: I'll give it a chance. It would be interesting to see if Bruce loses what could be conisdered his Second Father and how he would deal with that. Although I really hope they don't get rid of Alfred cause he is one of my favorite characters


I did find it interesting that Jason Todd was brought up, but I don't think it would have any impact on the adoption of Dick - Dick's an adult, and thus the CPA isn't going to have any say in that adoption.


Tue - but I figure they are going somewhere with this and Bruce did adopt Dick recently in the pages of GK's, so we will see where this goes!!!


Yeah, and frankly, I'm finding this subplot incredibly uninteresting. I liked it when it Sasha, but now its gotten stale fast. I'm ready to move on to something else.


Again, I don;t think so but I can see your point. I'm enjoying it but I guess it could be getting a little played, but its not bothering me yet


Don't know about the Sasha thing. I hope not. Getting rid of a good character like that would give me yet another reason not to like Beatty's work.

I did, however, like the appearance of The Question.
[/B]

I LOVED Sasha, and hated to see her go. I hope I'm way off with that and that she will make her way back into Bruce's life somehow in the future!

[whitmore_sean]

A couple of points:

First, to Gotham Knights '68: I think you're right about Sasha being the corpse. It hadn't occured to me at all until you said it...but remember last issue? The Checkmate gang referred to their "failure with Sasha Beaurduex" (oh, however it's spelled...lousy French).

The new Huntress costume that everyone seems to hate...isn't that supposed to be an homage of some sort to the old Pre-Crisis Huntress? I thought homages were all the rage? (not really relevant to GK, but I just thought I'd mention it)

The Huntress/Batman relationship, despite all the ups and downs it's gone through over the past few years, remains basically exactly where it was. She is striving for his approval, and doing her best to act like she doesnt care. She can say "the hell with him" all she wants, but it's pretty evident every time she's around the family that she wants in (as for why Batman has never stopped her, I have my own questions about that, but that's a whole other thred...)

Bruce never referred to Helena as one of "his kids". Reread the scene. He was talking about Stephanie. He called her reckless or something, and Alfred said "you said the same thing about Huntress".

As for Robin calling her "sister", that looks like the new slang that
Beatty is going to saddle Tim with. He called Nightwing "big brother" a few issues back (granted, they are like brothers, but they've never actually referred to each other as "brother" before).

I'm certainly not going to crap all over the subplot of Alfred's apparent sickness just because the movie did that story. The movie also had Mr Freeze in it, do I have to automatically hate every Mr Freeze appearance in the comics now? Alfred being sick could be a great story...certainly better than him quitting for the third time.

And btw, I have no problem with the idea that Bruce would knock over a chess board. Sure, he did it rather suddenly (after one vague question...c'mon, give Alfie a chance to reply!), but if anything would send Bruce into a rage it would be something wrong with Alfred.

All in all, I have no problem with Scott Beatty's work on the book. I liked the Bane story, I liked the Spoiler story, and I'm so far loving this Huntress arc. He's no Devin Grayson, but then, even Devin Grayson wasn't Devin Grayson when the book first started.



SEAN

[Gotham Knights '68]

Hey Sean! Replies in RED ...

Originally posted by whitmore_sean
A couple of points:

First, to Gotham Knights '68: I think you're right about Sasha being the corpse. It hadn't occured to me at all until you said it...but remember last issue? The Checkmate gang referred to their "failure with Sasha Beaurduex" (oh, however it's spelled...lousy French).

Yeah, I hope I'm wrong. My co-worker who collects along with me doesn't think it was her when I brought it up to him, so its nice to know someone else thinks like I do :)

The new Huntress costume that everyone seems to hate...isn't that supposed to be an homage of some sort to the old Pre-Crisis Huntress? I thought homages were all the rage? (not really relevant to GK, but I just thought I'd mention it)

Thats what it reminds me of, and I happen to like the new costume - granted I really loved her first and second outfits - heck, anything on Helena looks good :p But I do agree that the new costume is a homage of sorts to the Huntress character.

The Huntress/Batman relationship, despite all the ups and downs it's gone through over the past few years, remains basically exactly where it was. She is striving for his approval, and doing her best to act like she doesnt care. She can say "the hell with him" all she wants, but it's pretty evident every time she's around the family that she wants in (as for why Batman has never stopped her, I have my own questions about that, but that's a whole other thred...)

A Green Arrow Ollie Queen Bullseye on Bats and Huntress! Do tell your Batman / Huntress theory...enquiring minds wanna know!

Bruce never referred to Helena as one of "his kids". Reread the scene. He was talking about Stephanie. He called her reckless or something, and Alfred said "you said the same thing about Huntress".

WHEW! - I didn't remember it in the story either, at least I'm not crazy, uhm well, maybe a little :rolleyes:

As for Robin calling her "sister", that looks like the new slang that
Beatty is going to saddle Tim with. He called Nightwing "big brother" a few issues back (granted, they are like brothers, but they've never actually referred to each other as "brother" before).

True, it seems to be Beatty's style.

I'm certainly not going to crap all over the subplot of Alfred's apparent sickness just because the movie did that story. The movie also had Mr Freeze in it, do I have to automatically hate every Mr Freeze appearance in the comics now? Alfred being sick could be a great story...certainly better than him quitting for the third time.

A-men :)

And btw, I have no problem with the idea that Bruce would knock over a chess board. Sure, he did it rather suddenly (after one vague question...c'mon, give Alfie a chance to reply!), but if anything would send Bruce into a rage it would be something wrong with Alfred.

I guess, but I still don't really see it - Bruce is pretty much calm and collected and I tend to believe he would use his talents to discover more in detail what is actually wrong with him rather than throw sort of a hissy fit and just bolt to the cave.

All in all, I have no problem with Scott Beatty's work on the book. I liked the Bane story, I liked the Spoiler story, and I'm so far loving this Huntress arc. He's no Devin Grayson, but then, even Devin Grayson wasn't Devin Grayson when the book first started.

Well said! And yes, I have really enjoyed Gotham Knights as well - Devin was some big shoes to follow, but I think overall Scott Beatty is doing a great job with the direction he has taken this title.


SEAN

Gotham Knights '68

[Samhaine]

Originally posted by Gotham Knights '68
Helena / Huntress then just popped up in the pages of Detective Comics when she met up with Sasha, who was in her own uniform at the time. No explanation involving the events of Cry for Blood
I forgot about this. But, remember, both books (CforB and 'Tec) had the same writer. I know Rucka wants to do another Question/Huntress mini, and there's supposed to be a Question back-up in 'Tec soon, so maybe this stuff will be addressed.


Originally posted by Gotham Knights '68
In addition to that was No Man's Land
Which was over for almost a year before CfB, and Huntress was kicked out of the Batgirl role by Batman, which led her to join up with that crazy cop. She was not in his good graces at that time.


Originally posted by Gotham Knights '68
What is Lewis going to do to Spoiler??? I just read Robin 111 last night and it does seem likes he is taking her down a dark path so to speak...Share the dirt :p
You asked for it:
Lewis is going to reveal that Steph was, and I'm not joking....raped. Dixon FLIPPED when he heard about this.
I personally think that this is ridiculous. This does not constitute character building - it is being played for quick sympathy, and giving Steph a "darkened past." I liked the first 11 issues of Lewis' run - but at least Dixon treated characters with respect.

And about Lee's art: it represents everything wrong with comics of the 90s. I mean, it's capable enough, but I think my hatred of it stemmed from the ridiculous amount of praise it (and the book in general, which has been quite mediocre) - oh, and his cover to Thundercats #2. Gave me nightmares for weeks.

[Clayface]

Originally posted by Samhaine

I always assumed that after the Cry for Blood mini, Helena and Bats were on good terms, and every time I read something to the contrary I've had a bad reaction.


That's funny, because I had the exact opposite interpretation of Cry for Blood - as I read it, Batman would not have been happy at all with Huntress at the end. In Issue 5 he has a conversation with Nightwing:

Batman: Let her do this her way.
Nightwing: Her way has been known to put bodies in the morgue.
Batman: I'm trusting her not to do that.

The entire point is that Batman is giving Huntress one more chance here - to do the right thing - to bring Santo down without it ending in more bodies in the morgue. Then, what happens at the end of issue 6? Santo dies. And Helena is indirectly responsible for it, because she didn't do her job - she didn't protect him or stop him from getting killed - something she could have done without killing for him as well. She succeeded in her mission to get back at Santo, but she failed Batman. I don't think Batman would be at all pleased with her actions, and I assumed that they would be on very bad terms after that. That's why when I've read things that show them at odds, its made perfect sense to me, and why I have such a problem with Bruce's attitude toward her here.



Originally posted by whitmore_sean

The new Huntress costume that everyone seems to hate...isn't that supposed to be an homage of some sort to the old Pre-Crisis Huntress? I thought homages were all the rage? (not really relevant to GK, but I just thought I'd mention it)



Eh. I don't really care either way as far as the costume goes. The old one was fine, the new one is fine.




Bruce never referred to Helena as one of "his kids". Reread the scene. He was talking about Stephanie. He called her reckless or something, and Alfred said "you said the same thing about Huntress".


Hmmm, I agree and disagree on this point. You're right in that Bruce didn't say it outright, but its obvious from the subtext of the dialogue. He says "Which one of the kids would you like to talk about first, Alfred?" Then, the first thing said on the next page is "Huntress...?" - not said by Bruce, but its one of the oldest literary/writing tricks in the book - picking up one conversation with the last word of the previous conversation. They are connected. The conversation between Bruce and Alfred continues for some time before they get to talking about Spoiler, as is evident from the condition of the pieces on the chess board - they've been playing for some time before we get back to them and their conversation.




And btw, I have no problem with the idea that Bruce would knock over a chess board. Sure, he did it rather suddenly (after one vague question...c'mon, give Alfie a chance to reply!), but if anything would send Bruce into a rage it would be something wrong with Alfred.


I don't agree - this is far too out of character for Bruce. When Bruce is concerned for the health of someone like Alfred, he doesn't explode, no matter how frustrated he is. If he felt Alfred was keeping something from him, he may feel betrayed an hurt, but he would never express that with violence.

[Gotham Knights '68]

Originally posted by Samhaine
I forgot about this. But, remember, both books (CforB and 'Tec) had the same writer. I know Rucka wants to do another Question/Huntress mini, and there's supposed to be a Question back-up in 'Tec soon, so maybe this stuff will be addressed.

Yep - looking forward to that as well

Which was over for almost a year before CfB, and Huntress was kicked out of the Batgirl role by Batman, which led her to join up with that crazy cop. She was not in his good graces at that time.

Well, remember at the end of NML when she took on the Joker (and a few slugs) - On her way to the hospital, Nightwing telling her that she did good and that Batman gave her a compliment in a typical "Batman compliment" fashion while he commented that what Bats said ranks up there as the highest of compliments coming from him.

You asked for it:
Lewis is going to reveal that Steph was, and I'm not joking....raped. Dixon FLIPPED when he heard about this.
I personally think that this is ridiculous. This does not constitute character building - it is being played for quick sympathy, and giving Steph a "darkened past." I liked the first 11 issues of Lewis' run - but at least Dixon treated characters with respect.

Hmmm....

Wasn't this already in #111??? Steph tells Tim that her fathers best friend at the time was a weirdo that freaked her out years ago with weird questions and when He had him babysit for Steph when he took her mom to rehad for her pill problem he kinda made his move but never got the chance to go through with it cause Steph bolted. Was this just a lie???
Or am I crazy ?

And about Lee's art: it represents everything wrong with comics of the 90s. I mean, it's capable enough, but I think my hatred of it stemmed from the ridiculous amount of praise it (and the book in general, which has been quite mediocre) - oh, and his cover to Thundercats #2. Gave me nightmares for weeks.

SHOCKING :eek: :confused: :eek: I'm loving it!!! 612 was just awesome and the art is the best I've seen, and I don't buy into the hype - I've been a fan for a long time and this arc ranks up there with the best of 'em IMHO :D I cannot wait for the HC version to re-read it straight through again and again, admire the new material and added features and then pass it on to my family members to enjoy :)


PEACE, GK'68

[Rand]

I'm not a big of Scott Beatty. I mean... Batgirl: Year One rocks! But... he took over Ruse (from Mark Waid), and it hasn't been the same since (though the latest issue was pretty good). He took over Gotham Knights from Devin Grayson, and again... eh... the Bane story was just flippin' weird. The Spoiler one was OK. The Huntress one...

Once again, a page-by-page commentary type thing from me.

I find it surprising that Bruce Wayne would 'play around' at his own home. He doesn't have to play up to the playboy idiot mask that he shows the rest of the world. He -is- Batman, that's the core of him. So throwing that snowball was just... ungh.

The stress on the last panel of the page is significant. I wonder what new illness they'll come up with for Alfred that Leslie can't cure... *rolls eyes*

I thought Barbara was the one with the photographic memory. Bruce is just supposed to have a really good one. He actually remembers chess games instead of the stacks and stacks of other material that he has archived in his Batdatabase? What the...

You know, I agree with the poster earlier who said that Huntress was hallucinating, and not going through memories. I mean, yes, memories to a certain degree (like that deal with Dick), but she was aware of the 'reality'... at least as far as it went. She knew she wasn't wearing the costume. She knew that whatshisface was supposed to be dead. Etc, etc.

What I -do- find interesting, and wish was covered in Batman: Family, is how Batman views his 'extended family.' Batman's become quite a bit of a leak in security. If anything happens to him, Alfred, Dick and Tim will tear the Batcave apart trying to find out what went wrong. Babs and Cassandra too. Which means all those files, like the ones on how to take out the JLA... and who knows what other skeletons Batman has in his closet... will come out into the open. Where he keeps the kryptonite ring, perhaps. Yadda yadda yadda. I like the way that was brought up, and seems to be a plotline, in Gotham Knights.

One thing that has been bothering me about the Bat-titles is how the secret identities have been... well, compromised more and more. Helena is known to be the Huntress by quite a few people. Lois Lane knows that Batman is Bruce. Spoiler knows Tim Drake. The entire Titans line-up seems to know that Dick is Nightwing. Ungh. I hope they sort that one out soon.

I also agree that Bruce lashing out against the chess table is out-of-character. I'd see him staring Alfred down until he talked, instead. But... that visual is very dramatic. This is the comics medium we're talking about, after all.

I find it interesting that the Spoiler will be continuing. Unsanctioned. So that makes two black sheep in the 'family'...

The last two pages were just weird. Don't know what sort of cliffhanger that's supposed to be.

I'm not sure I'll be continuing with Gotham Knights. I'd stopped collecting it, due to financial reasons, round about when Hugo Strange took over the Bat-mantle... I still want to know what happened there, since those issues were great! Batman talking about Nightwing, etc... but I picked it up again in #32, where it talked about "A Day in the Life of Bruce Wayne", 24-style. Devin Grayson is great. Scott Beatty... eh... not so much. I might hang in through this storyarc, but odds are that I'll drop real soon.

Especially because of the art. It really doesn't grab me. Was Bruce Wayne actually -smirking- at Alfred in one panel? Ungh.

[Samhaine]

Originally posted by Gotham Knights '68
Hmmm....

Wasn't this already in #111??? Steph tells Tim that her fathers best friend at the time was a weirdo that freaked her out years ago with weird questions and when He had him babysit for Steph when he took her mom to rehad for her pill problem he kinda made his move but never got the chance to go through with it cause Steph bolted. Was this just a lie???

Or am I crazy ?
[/FONT] [/COLOR] [/B]
Can't comment, as I haven't read that issue yet. All I know is that I read an interview with Lewis and it heavily implied that it went a bit further than what your spoiler is saying.

[Clayface]

BATMAN: GOTHAM KNIGHTS #39



http://www.dccomics.com/directcurrents/comics/mar_03/images/pic_medbmgk38cvr.jpg (http://www.dccomics.com/directcurrents/comics/mar_03/images/pic_lrgbmgk38cvr.jpg)

COVER BY: Brian Bolland
WRITTEN BY: Scott Beatty and Gilbert Austin
ART BY: Roger Robinson, John Floyd and Cliff Chiang

THE STORY: The Huntress has been captured by Checkmate who makes her an offer she can't possibly refuse. But refuse she does, and wait 'til you see the melee that follows! Injured and on the run, Huntress' only salvation lies in the not-so-tender hands of Batman! Plus, Gilbert Austin (Dark Horse Maverick: Happy Endings) teams up with Cliff Chiang (BATMAN: GOLDEN STREETS OF GOTHAM) for a backup story of young Bruce Wayne attending a costume party, at which at least part of his inspiration for becoming Batman is present.



Comments?

[Clayface]

BATMAN: GOTHAM KNIGHTS #40



http://www.dccomics.com/directcurrents/comics/apr_03/images/pic_medbmgk40cvr.jpg (http://www.dccomics.com/directcurrents/comics/apr_03/images/pic_lrgbmgk40cvr.jpg)

WRITTEN BY: Scott Beatty and Robert Rodi
ART BY: Roger Robinson, John Proctor and John Floyd
COVER BY: Brian Bolland

THE STORY: The conclusion to "Knight Moves!" Batman, the Huntress and Checkmate have been working in the same town, but from different angles, and the tension between them has come to an explosive end! After the Huntress' kidnapping, drugging and interrogation by Checkmate, Batman's no longer sure if can trust her. And now, time has run out: Checkmate is storming the Batcave! Plus, the black-and-white back-up story "Neighbor Hood," by Robert Rodi (CODENAME: KNOCKOUT), newcomer John Proctor & John Floyd.

Comments?

[DisneyBoy]

When did Huntress' costume change so drastically? The bare middrift and ears aren't doign a thing for me.

[Clayface]

Well, as regular readers of the Gotham Knights talkbacks can attest, I've not been a big fan of Beatty's run on this title so far. And, I've gotta say, for the most part, my feelings remained the same with this issue.

Things I didn't like:

The "Alfred dying" subplot. Still don't see the point to it - seems like a cheap soap opera trick. Hopefully we'll at least get some info as to what exactly is wrong with him in the near future (though the total lack of mention of him in the blurb for the next issue is worrisome). Whichever way this subplot goes, I can't see it ending in a very satisfactory way. The two obvious ways to wrap it up is to have him recover, which just makes the subplot seem pointless, or have him die, which would just be...wrong.

Checkmate apparently knows where the Batcave/tunnel system is. I hope this will be addressed again in the future. That's a major discovery, and to not address it as one would be criminal.

The dialogue. When I read something by Greyson or Rucka or Brubaker, I hear a different voice for each character - they each have their own rythm in thier speech patterns. Each of the characters in Beatty's story have the same voice, and the same stilted speech pattern. It makes it tough to get through an issue.

What I liked:
The plot twist with Huntress. Never thought of her being a double agent within Checkmate, and I'll hand it to Beatty - this was a great way to go. I'm looking forward to what will be done with this in the future.

So overall, this was an issue that I would consider about average. The plot twist was great, but its not enough to redeem the rest of the issue. I'll give it 3 stars.

[Clayface]

BATMAN: GOTHAM KNIGHTS #41



http://comics.toonzone.net/solicitations/2003-05/batman/t-bgk41.jpg (http://comics.toonzone.net/solicitations/2003-05/batman/bgk41.jpg)

WRITTEN BY: Scott Beatty and Alex Garland
ART BY: Toby Cypress and Sean Phillips
COVER BY: Alfred Kamajian

THE STORY: A designer drug has hit the streets of Gotham, reducing scores of victims to boneless piles of goo. Batman hits a wall in his investigation, bringing into play the one man who may know the secret behind the drug: Elongated Man! Featuring guest art by Toby Cypress. Plus, in the Black & White back-up “Sunrise,” an elderly woman is surprised to find a huffing, puffing Batman resting on her rooftop. How did he get there? Written by novelist and screenwriter Alex Garland (The Beach, 28 Days Later) with art by Sean Phillips (SLEEPER; BATMAN: GOTHAM NOIR).

Comments?

[DisneyBoy]

Is it just me, or is the perspective on the 'push' part of the needle on the cover a little off...?

[Kathy Kane]

Is it just me, or is the perspective on the 'push' part of the needle on the cover a little off...?

The cover was good but the inside art was terrible!
I liked the story a bit.
But what about Alfred!!
Are they going to kill him?
I think instead of hanging out with mr fantastic..opps I mean Elongated Man, Bruce should have been at his bedside or something.

[DisneyBoy]

(sigh) Why are all these writers getting ready to lay Alfie down? WE NEED OUR PENNYWORTH!!! Ok, so maybe I'm just being paranoid, but it seems like he'll die sometime soon, and that's the last thing I want.

[Clayface]

*Sigh*

Well, I think this issue finally did it for me. I think I've finally come to the realization that I just need to drop this title. I've not been satisfied with Beatty's writing, and this issue was just too much for me.

The Elongated man? Ugh. No thanks. Not a character I care about, or want to read about.

I hated the fact that EM blows Batman's cover in public. I hated that Batman didn't react to it even more. And then to have Batman outsmarted at the end. Bah. Blasphemy. (ok, not really, but I just didn't buy into it)

The illegal-drug-that's-killing-people-in-weird-ways storyline has been done to death in Batman comics, and this one offers nothing even remotely new or interesting on the old cliche (for a much better take on this same type of story, read Kia Asamiya's Batman: Child of Dreams hardcover GN that was released recently).

At least Brubaker's back-up story was solid. I'll give the issue 1 star, simply out of respect to Brubaker.

I'll probably read the next issue in the store, just to see what the Alfred storyline is about. But I think I'm done with buying this title.

[Green-Ghost]

BATMAN: GOTHAM KNIGHTS #44

http://comics.toonzone.net/solicitations/2003-08/batman-superman/t-bgk44.jpg (http://comics.toonzone.net/solicitations/2003-08/batman-superman/bgk44.jpg)

Written by Scott Beatty and Jill Thompson; art by Dave Ross, John Floyd and Thompson; cover by Brian Bolland

You may think you know the truth about the death of Jason Todd…but you’re wrong! As events in the present force Bruce Wayne to look into the past, some of the actions and events surrounding the demise of the second Robin become clearer. Plus, in the black-and-white backup, “The Best of Gotham” — a guide to Gotham City nightlife by Jill Thompson (DEATH: AT DEATH’S DOOR)!

[whitmore_sean]

With all the Jason Todd talk finished now over in Batman, I hope more people will pay attention to the storyline evolving in this book.

So, we get a brand new introduction to the yellow circle around the bat-insignia. Fine by me, since NO two writers have EVER been able to decide when he got it. But is it maybe, conceivably possible that from this moment on, people stick to it as canon?

(Now I'm not being kept awake at night because of the fate of the yellow oval, but to me it indicates an ever-growing lack of interest among the Bat-staff of paying attention to history.)

Very nice to see the New Titans again, even for a teensy cameo. No series since has been worth the name.

Last but not least, they've gotta lose this issue's inker. Completely ruined Robinson's art.


SEAN

[WillemJoker]

Could someone please post a summry of this issue? My nearest comic shop is closed until further notice.

[whitmore_sean]

Here ya go, WillemJoker:

This issue dealt with two storylines. One in the present, and one revealed slowly in flashbacks.

The present story is about the social worker who's looking into Jason Todd's death. Nothing much new happens here, just further evidence that the guy is determined to get to the bottom of things.

The flashbacks start right at Jason's death, and detail the events that happened right after (the coverup, the funeral, people's reactions, etc).

The highlights of the issue are (spoiler protection on:)


1) Batman's final battle with Joker from "Death in the Family" is revealed to be a bit more premeditated than previously believed

2) A new origin for the yellow circle around the bat chest insignia is revealed

3) Batman re-examines some evidence found at the scene of Jason's death and finds something that shocks him




SEAN

[BeyondGotham]

Since I am unable to get comics right now.. would someone fill me in on the whole insignia deal? Thanks!

[whitmore_sean]

Since I am unable to get comics right now.. would someone fill me in on the whole insignia deal? Thanks!


No prob. The reasoning behind the yellow circle remains the same: to attract gunfire to the heavily armored chest rather than the head. The twist is that now we're being told that Batman specifically did this because of Jason's death, not only for the extra protection, but apparently as a means of mourning as well.

Says Alfred: "You don't honor the boy by affixing a bull's-eye to your chest."


SEAN

[BeyondGotham]

Thanks! it makes since I guess, but if that was the case, about drawing gun fire, why did he go back to the old way??

[whitmore_sean]

Thanks! it makes since I guess, but if that was the case, about drawing gun fire, why did he go back to the old way??


Good question. I wonder why he's still wearing the WWII-era army surplus utility belt now that No Man's Land is over. :)


SEAN

[HelloKittyKat]

No prob. The reasoning behind the yellow circle remains the same: to attract gunfire to the heavily armored chest rather than the head. The twist is that now we're being told that Batman specifically did this because of Jason's death, not only for the extra protection, but apparently as a means of mourning as well.


. . . Despite the fact that he had been wearing the yellow oval for years beforehand, even displaying it prominently in the panel where he's cradling Jason's body. Did the writer even look at "A death in the family"?

[John6777]

http://www.dccomics.com/media/covers/3618_180x270.jpg
Written by A.J. Lieberman; Art by Rick Burchett and Alvaro Lopez; Cover by Cliff Chiang

From the pages of BREACH, the newly revitalized Kobra has come to Gotham — and they're after Prometheus! But what could Hush's bodyguard possibly have that Kobra would want, and just who is Kobra working for? All that and a loose thread from last issue, too!

Batman | 32pg. | Color | $2.50 US

On Sale June 15, 2005

Has anyone read the latest Gotham Knights? Gotham Knights 66 My store was completley sold out of the Talia issue. Can some tell me what went on during the issue?

[Clayface]

I give a brief spoiler-free review in my post in this thread (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=143249). I'd probably have to dig out the issue if you want more info than that, because I've already forgotten most of the details.

[John6777]

I give a brief spoiler-free review in my post in this thread (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=143249). I'd probably have to dig out the issue if you want more info than that, because I've already forgotten most of the details.
I just want to know if there is any interaction between Batman and Talia since their bad ending in Death and the Maidens.

[Clayface]

I just want to know if there is any interaction between Batman and Talia since their bad ending in Death and the Maidens.

Nope, Batman doesn't appear at all in this issue. Her interactions are strictly limited to Hush and Prometheus.

[John6777]

Nope, Batman doesn't appear at all in this issue. Her interactions are strictly limited to Hush and Prometheus.
So is she with Kobra or is she with the League of Assasins?

[Clayface]

So is she with Kobra or is she with the League of Assasins?

She's in charge of a small group of Kobras. There's no mention of the League in the issue.

[Dark Night]

This issue is basically a re-telling of Prometheus' origins (which, if I re-call, was done way back in Justice League)--for anyone who wants to know what Prometheus is about. Looks like Hush is going solo again....

[Darknight]

ANyone else bothered that we had the pretty good Death and the Maidens story which turned all things al Ghul on their ear, but all the main titles are just ignoring it. Nyssa hasn't appeared in anything I have seen since the end of the mini, and Talia is just out there hanging around Lex Luthor and commanding Kobras? Doesn't she have her own little army to command instead of the Kobra guys? Shouldn't Lex be a little bitter at her for driving his corporation into the ground? The stories have been good, but I just want things to jive with the stuff from a couple of years ago.

[Clayface]

ANyone else bothered that we had the pretty good Death and the Maidens story which turned all things al Ghul on their ear, but all the main titles are just ignoring it. Nyssa hasn't appeared in anything I have seen since the end of the mini, and Talia is just out there hanging around Lex Luthor and commanding Kobras? Doesn't she have her own little army to command instead of the Kobra guys? Shouldn't Lex be a little bitter at her for driving his corporation into the ground? The stories have been good, but I just want things to jive with the stuff from a couple of years ago.

Yeah, I'm disappointed by the follow-up as well. Not only that, but they've already laid the groundwork to undo Death and the Maidens in the recent Year One: Batman/Ra's al Ghul two-issue mini-series. :mad:

Though it should be noted, according to solicitations (http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Oct05/DCUOct05.html), Nyssa will be showing up in Batgirl #69.

[Darknight]

Yeah, I'm disappointed by the follow-up as well. Not only that, but they've already laid the groundwork to undo Death and the Maidens in the recent Year One: Batman/Ra's al Ghul two-issue mini-series. :mad:

Though it should be noted, according to solicitations (http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Oct05/DCUOct05.html), Nyssa will be showing up in Batgirl #69.
I noticed that too. It was a cool concept to change things that way. Nice to see that someone is going to use something from that miniseries. Should have been done months ago.