Did Anyone Notice a Shift of Power in Batman's Rogues Gallery?

[Karkull]

Ever since the 60's television show the Joker, Penguin, Catwoman, and the Riddler seem to have been the favored rogues; but in the past ten years there seems to have been a shift of power:

Staying Constant

Joker
He'll always be Batman's number one foe. Period.

Going Up

Two-Face
He's become Batman's number two villain thanks to appearances in BTAS and in books like Batman: The Long Halloween and Batman: Dark Victory (arguably two of the better Batman stories released in the past ten years). We'll ignore Tommy Lee Jones' awful performance in Batman Forever.

Poison Ivy
Batman: The Animated Series also did wonders for her recognition, as does her much loved team-ups with Harley Quinn. We'll also ignore her appearance in Batman and Robin--she at least looked good.

Going Down

The Penguin
It can be argued that Batman Returns did some harm to the character. He was under-represented in BTAS, but seemed to rebound [a little] in TNBA with the appearance of the Iceberg Lounge.

The Riddler
He just can't get a break. Creative teams just can't seem to break the habit of making him wear ugly green spandex with question marks on it, even though he doesn't have the muscles for it like he did in the Silver Age. He had a brillaint revision in BTAS, but he only appeared in three of the 85 episodes [excluding The Trial, where he didn't speak or move] and went back to his spandex in TNBA. He was portrayed as a small time hood in both Batman: The Long Halloween and Batman: Dark Victory. And Jim Carrey, though he tried, ended up making him look like a goofball with a crush on Bruce Wayne.

Roughly Constant

Catwoman
Poor Selina Kyle. She got short-changed on BTAS, which seemed to elevate Poison Ivy above her. However, she had a great appearance in movies like Batman Returns and the aforementioned Batman: The Long Halloween and Batman: Dark Victory. However, as her two solo series can attest, she's the only one listed here who could probably do without Batman altogether.


Any thoughts?

[Bobby Boy 101]

OMG!!! that is sooo creepy! I was just thinking the same thing earlier today!

yes I will agree, Penguin is uncerrated compared to the olden days, and poison Ivy's strength has been needlessly and unrealistically 'upped'.

Catwoman was portrayed as a resonalbley strong character in Batman Returns, CATWOMAN #1 through about #70, and in Long Halloween (chick fight!!!!) BUT NOT THE ANIMATED SERIES!!! Look at Cat and the Claw, Cat Scratch Fever, and Almost Got Im!!!!! The only moves she ever got to do were like little throws and flip people over tables and stuff, instead of real fighting. I mean, come on, look at that fight with Red Claw!!! SOOO NOT COOL!!!!

[FLIPMODE]

Im sorry but Catwoman, is not that great of a Fighter. She's decent, but nothing special. She's a better escape artist.

And those characters went down, because if they did'nt Batman would go down. If he's SOOO smart, why do these silly guys keep re-occurring with silly plots against Gotham. Batman has to keep characters like Penguin, Catwoman, and even the one trick wonder Mr. Freeze in check, even if it Diminishes their character.

With the one exception, RIDDLER, I think his character has suffered the worst. Because I hardly ever see him. And compared to Peguin and Catwoman, this guy is Smart, but he's a terrible criminal. If done correctly, his character should be up there with the Joker.

But other Bat Villains atop the current List is:

Ras Al Ghoul: Personally I think he's even better than the Joker, because this guy is a Physical and Mental challenge for the unbeatable Bat. And I like that.

Bane: It jut makes sense. Look at his origin. IF WRITERS would write his character correctly in recent appearences, he'd be more potent these days. Knightfall, depicted him the Best, but still, he's a great villain.

Lady Shiva: We're all just waiting for the day wither Batman or She dies in combat against each other. Would it be sooo bad if Batman accidentally Killed her? Has'nt Superman destroyed life forms? He's coped with it.

[Poison Carley]

Lets not talk about the movie Poison Ivy. :(

[Dark Knight]

And once again it comes up that the Riddler was seriously short changed in the otherwise awesome animated shows. The poor guy got three episodes of TAS which revolved around him but had no lasting consequences on anything and he shows up as an extra villain every now and then. He deserves much better. Personally I think they should make a new animated movie revolve around him.

[Golden Age Flash]

I loved the treatment of Poison Ivy in the animated series, and loved the redesign of the character for TNBA. It really elevated an obscure character to the top.

As far as the riddler being underused, i gotta agree to some level, but at least the 3 episodes with him were pretty good. I tend not to count the trial either: I'm not even sure he was painted on a cel, it sort of looked like he was part of the background in that episode. (and I guess that the Knighttime episode doesn't count because that was actually a STAS episode.) -- which leaves us with 3 strong episodes.

Mr. Scarface was also done really well in GTAS (Gatman, the animated series... :D )

[Karkull]

Originally posted by Flash
Mr. Scarface was also done really well in GTAS (Gatman, the animated series... :D )

I count the fact that Scarface didn't talk with that stupid speech impediment as one of the many perks of BTAS. It makes him look so stupid in the comics!

[The Mad Hatter]

The reason Riddler was underused was that he's really difficult to write for. The three B:TAS Riddler eps were pretty good and made excellent use of his riddling neurosis. However, Riddler is EXTREMELY easy to screw up, as it's all too easy to make his riddling silly and cheesy. He was underused simply because the creators wanted to give him the stories he deserved.

[Golden Age Flash]

Same thing happened with the Riddler in comics. He appeared in 'tec 140 and 142 (Dec 1948), then disappeared for something like 20 years! I agree, a hard character to write for, and not even a speech impediment...

[The Game]

The reason Riddler was underused was that he's really difficult to write for. The three B:TAS Riddler eps were pretty good and made excellent use of his riddling neurosis. However, Riddler is EXTREMELY easy to screw up, as it's all too easy to make his riddling silly and cheesy. He was underused simply because the creators wanted to give him the stories he deserved.

Exactly! I'm writing a FanFic right now on the FanFic board, and of all of Batman's promonant villains, he is by far the hardest to write for. You have to try to be smart and witty, and the riddles have to be good and...

I need a break.

I agree with the Mad Hatter, is what I'm saying, it's just hard to write a good Riddler story.