What is the proper way to pronounce Ra's Al Ghul?

[Bizarro Batman]

In BTAS, they called him "Raysh" and in Batman Begins he was "Roz". I had always thought it was like how they say it in Begins, and I totally forgot they pronounced it the other way in BTAS until I saw the episodes again on DVD.

If this is the wrong forum for this question, I apologize, but I'm not sure exactly where it would go.

[Ruseri]

The movie had the proper pronunciation. the show (TAS) was wrong.

[Justice Lords]

Says who? The comics? Last I checked the comics don't speak and only have text.

[Trevor Balena]

Says who? The comics? Last I checked the comics don't speak and only have text.
Exactly. BTAS was the first time the character's name had to be pronounced by actors. So, for my money, whatever they decided became the definitive way of pronouncing it.

[Jiggle-Bot]

Ra's Al Ghul is is suppose to be Arabic for "The Demon's Head". So we need someone who can properly pronounce the Arablic dialect to give us the answer to that.

[jimmymiro12]

GMhaler
Neither of them are correct, if I recall correctly. It should actually be pronounced Rah-zhal Ghul. But the B:TAS episode was written by Denny O'Neil, the creator of Ra's, so that must count for something.


Jiggle-Bat
Ra's Al Ghul is is suppose to be Arabic for "The Demon's Head". So we need someone who can properly pronounce the Arablic dialect to give us the answer to that

Jiggle bat good job. I remember hearing it before and I believe it is close to rah-zhal-ghul.



Someone must know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[John6777]

Well on the Batman Begins Special Edition DVD Denny O'Neal called him "Raysh" so I guess he has gotten used to that way of pronouncing it.

[Reverend]

Wasn't this addressed in Batman Beyond "out of the past"?
I think the man/woman himself...whoever had something to say on the subject. If I recall the preference was for "Raish" though Terry kept saying Raz.

[DisneyBoy]

Great little bit of dialogue there :)

[spidl]

In Episode 62 the host address this issue with Denny O'Neil. He says its "Raish'
http://www.comicgeekspeak.com/episodes.asp

[The Penguin]

Wasn't this addressed in Batman Beyond "out of the past"?
I think the man/woman himself...whoever had something to say on the subject. If I recall the preference was for "Raish" though Terry kept saying Raz.You can't judge it by that because as an extension of B:TAS, the "Beyond" world would pronounce it the same way. "Raz" is wrong for the DCAU, but no one is disputing that.

[Shadow]

There was a great deal of discussion about this on the Superhero Hype! forums when Batman Begins came out.

It seems the consenseus is that the proper Arabic pronounciation is "Rahz," and that Denny O'Neil, well, ...doesn't know how to pronounce it correctly.

[Crossdive]

from where I stand there really is no right or wrong way, both are correct IMO. I usually like to pronounce it like Rahs, not Raysh, just assuming how names from Tibet are pronounced. But then again I don't know for sure how, I just guessed based off how it would be if it were a Japanese name seen as I don't know about Tibet language details.

[Style]

There may not be a correct, definitive way of prouncing it. Oh, I know, there must be linguistically , but how a name should be pronounced linguistically often isn't how the individual prefers it to be pronounced.

For example, my last name is Lochmoeller, a rather long and ungainly german phrase. I have no idea how it "should" be pronounced. But my family and I have always preferred pronouncing it as "Lock-Miller."

So however Ra's got the name, he may prefer prounouncing it his own way for whatever reason, perhaps to make it sound more intimidating.

So, for the DCAU, however Ra's is really prounounced, Ra's definatly PREFERS to pronounce it Raysh. He just does. And it's his right to pronounce it any way he wants. In Batman Begins, he prefers to pronounce it "Razz." Neither is right or wrong.

[Anime]

Raysh is the correct way. Raz is just weird.:sweat:

[JLU Dude]

There may not be a correct, definitive way of prouncing it. Oh, I know, there must be linguistically , but how a name should be pronounced linguistically often isn't how the individual prefers it to be pronounced.

For example, my last name is Lochmoeller, a rather long and ungainly german phrase. I have no idea how it "should" be pronounced. But my family and I have always preferred pronouncing it as "Lock-Miller."

So however Ra's got the name, he may prefer prounouncing it his own way for whatever reason, perhaps to make it sound more intimidating.

So, for the DCAU, however Ra's is really prounounced, Ra's definatly PREFERS to pronounce it Raysh. He just does. And it's his right to pronounce it any way he wants. In Batman Begins, he prefers to pronounce it "Razz." Neither is right or wrong.
True. I tend to alternate between the versions of pronouncation for "Ra's".

On a related note, the same could be said for Carmine Falcone. The characters in the movies said Falcone "Fal-cone-e" while in a documentary, writer David Goyer pronounced it "Fal-cone".

[The Penguin]

Raysh is the correct way. Raz is just weird.:sweat:That doesn't sound like much a reason.

[Revelator]

My father is a native speaker of Arabic, so I'll have to ask him when I go home for Thanksgiving.
Frankly, if a character in an American cartoon had a Japanese name and it was butchered in pronunciation, fanboys would be outraged. I don't see why we shouldn't hold the pronunciation of Ra's Al Ghul to the same standard of linguistic accuracy. There are few things in the world more annoying than having a word cluelessly mispronounced over and over again. I'm speaking from experience, because my first name is a common one in both Turkish and Arabic, and if I had a dollar for every time it was mispronounced I could buy Cartoon Network. And I have the feeling that Ra's himself chose his moniker because of the way it sounded in its original language (it's not like it's a widely used phrase in other languages), and he likes hearing it that way.
If the correct linguistic pronunciation of a name is known, and it's not too difficult to pronounce, we should assume that it's the correct default choice unless there's significant reason to suspect otherwise. Some names gradually shift their pronunciation once they've been used a long time in varying languages (compare the German and French pronunciations of Schumacher--the correct pronunciation depends on the natiionality of the Schumacher in question). But a phrase like "Ra's Al Ghul" likely exists only in Arabic, and native pronunciation is the way to go.

[DeathscytheVII]

I prefer Raysh, it sounds more...sophisticated ;)

[Spider-Man]

Here's some interesting information for this debate, from Wizard World Philidelphia and Scott Beatty:

http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=35268

One of the attendees who saw DC’s screening of Batman Begins Saturday night pointed out that in the film, Ra’s al Ghul was pronounced as “Rahz” al Ghul (with a short a sound), where in the animated series it was pronounced “Rayz” al Ghul (with a long a). Asked which was right, Beatty explained, saying that when Denny O’Neil created the character, he had referred to him as the first pronunciation (“Rahz” with a short a), and then over the years, the other pronunciation came into play, and actually made it into a Batman style guide. As Beatty explained, the filmmakers wanted to go back to the original while giving a nod to O’Neil, hence the original pronunciation.

[Robin]

Here's a little bit more info, courtesy of the DC Comics Message Boards (http://dcboards.warnerbros.com/web/index.jspa) and the Denny O'Neil Message Boards (http://www.comicscommunity.com/boards/dennyoneil/).

I'll answer for Denny if you don't mind. We had our daughter check at the Language Dept. of UCLA and they said it was "Raysh" - with a kind of rolling of the "r" sound at the beginning of the word. I wish the movie people had checked with us.

Denny mispronounced the name, himself, for several years, due to the fact that he didn't speak Arabic, and had simply looked up the term in a English-to-Arabic dictionary. However, at some point he had his daughter go to the foreign language department at UCLA, and get the correct pronounciation.

More fuel for the fire!

[Temple Fugate]

Because the Ra's in BTAS and the Ra's in Begins are slightly different characters in terms of motivation, tactics and appearance, I use "Raysh" when talking about Ra's from BTAS or the DC comics, and "Rahz" when talking about the Ra's from Begins. Originally I preferred "Raysh," but now that people started using the "Rahzal Gool" pronunciation I'm starting to like that better.

[alexander knox]

It is kinda of annoying when your the biggest batfan among your peers and everyone thinks your pronouncing a main characters name wrong. And when you explain yourself for saying Raysh instead of Rahz you know there just thinking "so your taking the word of a cartoon over a summer blockbuster major motion picture with several a-list actors involved?" And you know what? They may have a point.
I really liked Styles point where pronounciations of names come down sometimes to the preferance of the name bearer, so I decided to contact the only person who could truely give us an answer, yes Ra's Al Ghul himself. Heres how the conversation went.


Ra's: Hello?

Me: Hello, this is Alexander Knox from DC Animation Forum and we were hoping you could settle a dispute we were having. Do you prefer to be refered to as Raysh or Ra's?

Ra's:......

Me: Hello?

Ra's: How did you get this number?

Me: Heh, It was rather difficult sir, I had to google it under "insane immortal eco-terrorists". The only other person to come up was President Bush. So the answer please?

Ra's: Ahem, well yes, actually it is pronounced "Rose Al Ghul". Named after the flower internationally known to symbolize love, yet just beneath its seemingly soft and beautiful exterior lies a stem with thorns harboring the ability to draw blood at a mere touch.

Me: .....Rose Al Ghul? That doesnt sound very imtimidating, actually it sounds...kinda girly.

Ra's: Your mother sounds girly.

Me: Ha! Uh...good one there..Rose, Hey before I let you go I have one more request, is your daughter home? I was gonna ask her out. Is she a dinner and a movie type or more of a

CLICK (Dial Tone)

Well, there we have it, straight from the horses mouth! It seems we all were wrong. So now we either have to get used to calling him "Rose" Al Ghul, or for my part, I just prefer to call him Al.

[Revelator]

I'll answer for Denny if you don't mind. We had our daughter check at the Language Dept. of UCLA and they said it was "Raysh" - with a kind of rolling of the "r" sound at the beginning of the word. I wish the movie people had checked with us. Denny mispronounced the name, himself, for several years, due to the fact that he didn't speak Arabic, and had simply looked up the term in a English-to-Arabic dictionary. However, at some point he had his daughter go to the foreign language department at UCLA, and get the correct pronounciation. Case closed I should say. If O'Neil goes with the animated pronunciation because it's linguistically correct, so should we. As much as I appreciate the relativist attempt to say there is no "correct" pronunciation, I believe that linguistic correctness should be our standard of conduct. Mispronouncing a name is more acceptable when the correct pronunciation is unknown and difficult to locate. But once it's discovered, there's no real excuse for it being used, unless one wants to propagate errors.
O'Neil picked the name because it looked neat and exotic on the page--now that he knows the correct pronunciation, he's sticking with it. It's probably O'Neil who's responsible for getting the name right in the animated series, since he scripted Ra's Al Ghul's introductory two-parter.

I can't help wondering--if Batman Begins was shown subtitled in the Arab world, where there howls of laughter when "Ra's Al Ghul" was butchered onscreen? Or where they howls of displeasure? I think that if a fan knows the correct linguistic pronunciation of a foreign name or phrase, he or she should be responsible and use it--in this case, we should use the Arabic pronunciation not only as a form of respect for the wishes of the character's creator, but also as a mark of respect for the language itself.
I think it's only because Arabic is still a lesser known language in the west, and that the Arab countries probably aren't among the largest foreign box office constituents, that Batman Begins butchered the name in the first place by not bothereing to find out how it was actually pronounced.

[The Penguin]

Case closed I should say. If O'Neil goes with the animated pronunciation because it's linguistically correct, so should we. As much as I appreciate the relativist attempt to say there is no "correct" pronunciation, I believe that linguistic correctness should be our standard of conduct.Sounds like it. Still, let us know what your dad says. I'd be interested to hear what an Arabic speaker has to say on the subject.

[Simpler Simon]

To be quite honest, I never knew Ra's existed as a "real" name/phrase in Arabic until Batman Begins pronounced it differently. I just thought it was some name the comic book writers came up with because it sounded cool and exotic - and you gotta remember that when dealing with pop entertainment (especially before the era of political correctness) many north american writers are ignorant of world culture and often piece together names w/syllables that make no sense.

[Mynd Hed]

When Americans start pronouncing Los Angeles "lohs ahn-hell-ace" and Notre Dame "know-tra dahm", I'll move two spots down on my "Common Mispronunciations to Get Irritated About" list and start worrying about the correct pronunciation of R'as.

[El Zorro]

I don't speak Arabic, but I know in Hebrew--a fairly closely related semitic language--the word for "head" is רֹאשׁ, which is pronounced "rosh" (such as in Rosh HaShannah: The Head of the Year). So I would be willing to bet Ra's, which is very obviously a cognate of rosh, would be properly pronounced "Raysh" or something close to it. Someone fluent in Arabic would obviosuly be able to give a better answer.

[Ed Liu]

Howdy,

After seeing this question repeatedly, I spent a few minutes (OK, a lot of minutes) searching for a definitive answer. First off, it's worth pointing to two previous posts on the Batman Begins talkback thread, where BatKid says native Arabic speakers pronounce "raas" and not "raysh." (http://forums.toonzone.net/showpost.php?p=1785287&postcount=53) Meanwhile, GregX states that Neal Adams says that nobody knows (http://forums.toonzone.net/showpost.php?p=1789323&postcount=187). Since both accounts are secondhand, I'm going to treat them with equal weight and give the nod to the native speakers to say it's "raas." TZ's Lorendiac says it goes both ways in his excellent Ra's al-Ghul FAQ (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=147481), but there's no supporting documentation.

Further weight to the "raas" pronunciation is given in this quick Arabic pronunciation guide (http://wahiduddin.net/words/99_pages/app_a_pronunciation.htm). Depending on the accent over the "a," we get either a like as in "bat" or a like "father;" the former supports a "raysh" pronunciation, but the latter supports "raas." However, the "s" does not have the "sh" sound at the end or else it would be romanized "Ra'sh al-Ghul."

If you combine that guide (which contains the corresponding Arabic letters) with this site that writes out the word "head" in Arabic (http://dictionary.sakhr.com/idrisidic_2.asp?Sub=head) (and remember that Arabic reads right-to-left), it seems that the word for the lump over your shoulders in Arabic does indeed use the "a like father" Arabic letter, and thus "raas" is correct. (Someone more adventurous than I am can figure out how to make it spell out "Demon's Head (http://dictionary.sakhr.com/idrisidic_2.asp?Sub=demon%27s%20head)" in Arabic to equate to "Ra's al-Ghul.")

However, we're still not done yet because of 2 things. The first is that Ra's al-Ghul was spelled in the original Batman comics with a hard "a" symbol, which is why Denny O'Neil pronounced it "Raysh" to begin with. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be any kind of hard "a" symbol in romanized Arabic. You could say that O'Neil's wishes should be paramount, since he specified that hard "a" from the start. However, you could also say that Denny should be explicitly ignored, since he seemed to have no knowledge of how to romanize Arabic words properly (and which is related to the reason why Marvel's "Shang-Chi," the Master of Kung-Fu annoys me to no end).

The second thing to consider is the little note at the bottom of the pronunciation guide, which states that "pronunciation of vowels, diphthongs and some consonants varies considerably from region to region" -- which really means all bets are off. I'm sure you could probably find two native Arabic speakers who would pronounce "ra's al-ghul" differently and insist to any non-native speaker that their way is the "right" way to pronounce the name.

So, I went out to find a definitive answer to a seemingly simple question and came back with a lot of qualifiers and no answer. Life is like that sometimes.

I'm pronouncing it "raas" from now on, though :).

-- Ed/Ace

[Zakkour]

Hi Everyone
this is my 1st post here in years, so i'm relatively new.
just to stay on topic, I speak Arabic, and the proper translation of 'head of the demon' would be pronounced as "Ru's al Ghoul", Ru's is pretty short with a stop at the apostrophe then s, and the 'Gh' part of 'al Ghoul' is pronounced like the letter R in french.
I like the way it was pronounced in TAS but the Batman Begins pronunciation in a bit closer.

I hope I was helpful enough

see ya around
Sam.