TMNT Talkback: Episode 4.05: "I, Monster" (Spoilers) [Archive]

Ian

10-15-2005, 09:14 AM

http://library.toonzone.net/talkbacks/4kids2.jpghttp://library.toonzone.net/talkbacks/tmnt.jpg

TMNT Episode 4.05: I, Monster
Original Air Date: October 15, 2005
Written by Brandon Sawyer

The turtles and Casey meet a bandage-covered person who may or may not be The Rat King…or somebody claiming to be the Rat King…or Bishop’s M.I.A. Slayer...or both.

I have to say, if the Slayer does turn out to be The Rat King, it's a pretty radical direction to take the character in--moreso, even, than the Shredder. Sure, they could do what The Batman did with Grundy and leave open the possibility for a more traditional Rat King, but still, quite gutsy (or not; it's not like he's an internationally-recognized character). I guess we'll just have to see how it goes.

creativerealms

10-15-2005, 09:49 AM

Not really seeing as Comic Rat king really has no memory of who he once was. "Last year I was the ghost, this year I am the monster" that making him the Slayer is not too big of a stretch. He really will not become Ratking until the end of the story. Really it depends on how close to the comic they are going. I like how the new show is incorperating it's own continuty into the comic stories and doing it pretty flawlessly (with some exceptions like the disapointing City at war).

Duke

10-15-2005, 10:39 AM

Rat King's lips just ending really freak me out.

maczero

10-15-2005, 10:47 AM

Best part of this episode so far:

SIX MILLION DOLLAR MAN SOUND EFFECTS!!!!:D

sdp

10-15-2005, 11:02 AM

it was a pretty dark episode, i don't know it seemed kind of to drag and not finding anything out about him didn't help much, but it wasn't a bad episode i still enjoyed it, i just hope if he shows up again for the episode to be a little different and not just like this one or it would start to get stale.

Nobody You Know

10-15-2005, 11:03 AM

Best part of this episode so far:

SIX MILLION DOLLAR MAN SOUND EFFECTS!!!!:D
That's actually where they lost me.

Then, Leo suddenly being able to match Rat King's speed?

And what is up with Raph suddenly being the sensible one?

Gah. As has been the case with this new season, I find myself underwhelmed.

On the other hand, it's still better than Loonatics.

Simpler Simon

10-15-2005, 11:08 AM

I have to say, if the Slayer does turn out to be The Rat King, it's a pretty radical direction to take the character in--moreso, even, than the Shredder. Sure, they could do what The Batman did with Grundy and leave open the possibility for a more traditional Rat King, but still, quite gutsy (or not; it's not like he's an internationally-recognized character). I guess we'll just have to see how it goes.
And yep, it was Bishop's Slayer after all. I think they gave it away too quickly in the intro...should've saved it for that 2nd flashback at the end. But hey, what does this show know about narrative style?

I'm not familiar with the rat king from the comics, but I really preferred this version of the character without the intro and outro asides. Pretty cheesy voice-acting (should be Bishop's VA right) and dialogue.

Other than that though, pretty enjoyable episode. The Slayer/Rat King does have a distinctive fighting style that carried over nicely from Bishop's Gambit. And the whole idea of being consumed by rats is just....:sweat:

Next week: Finally the Battle Nexus rematch that (might?) be out of sequence? Isnt that character called Butterfly swords on the toy packaging, or is that someone else?

CyberCubed

10-15-2005, 11:32 AM

Aw.....we didn't get to hear him say.... "I AM THE RAT KING!" I was waiting for that. :sad:

Overall I really liked the episode. Anyone notice better BGM than usual? The sunset dusty setting was also very nice, in this show it's almost always night, but here the setting was different.

Rat King is a total maniac in this version, and I actually like him a lot. I KNEW the rats wouldn't devour him at the end, Rat King has always been in control of the rats and they would never turn on him.

So Rat King definitely is a Slayer hybrid of sorts, I'll buy that. The action scenes were great as usual, I've always loved the fights on this show.

The episode stayed true to the comic for the most part as well, except they changed the way Rat King "died", as Leo was suppossed to kill him with a shuriken in the comics. Comic and synopsis from the official site:

http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/tales/04/04cover.jpg

http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/tales/04/04.htm

I would have thought that the Halloween episode would be airing next week, why would 4kids air a Halloween episode AFTER Halloween?

fantastic 7

10-15-2005, 11:58 AM

I am haven't read the comics, but I kind of remeber Rat King as an action figure as that I had when I was a kid. One of my favorites back then.

So far I am loving the new Rat King.

King_of_doom

10-15-2005, 12:04 PM

Very cool episode, i like how the Rat King fight and Leo getting angrier by the minute, probably when he comes back he might go for Splinter now.

Sharklady

10-15-2005, 12:30 PM

Well, I kinna prefer a Rat King who can talk; this one, who just makes animal sounds, is less interesting than the raving original. But I expect future episodes will provide further information about his background. Bishop is obviously responsible for his creation- is there *nothing* that guy won't stoop to?- but there's more to know about what Bishop's objectives were. And whether it's connected to the sad five-eyed monster we saw last week.

I am rather surprised they got away with several eaten-by-rats images on a Saturday Morning show. Sure, the last one turned out to be a fake-out, but those bones littering the 'arena' clearly indicate some previous visitors didn't get off so easily. :shudder:

SirLemming

10-15-2005, 01:30 PM

I definitely liked this episode. At first I thought it was just another lame monster-of-the-week story with the cliché flashbacks to genetic experimentation and all that stuff -- stuff where it seems like they're really just itching to make some sort of random action movie instead of writing stories for the TMNT -- but it turned out to be a nice big half-hour fight scene, pretty creepy and intense. If TMNT can give me good action, that's all I really ask. Sometimes it's preferable to the plots they try to do.

maczero

10-15-2005, 02:02 PM

I'm amazed what this show can get away with. Last week, Hun literally shredded a sentient being in half with a machine gun. This week, Leo tosses a handful of shurikens directly at an opponent and one of them actually sticks; and gratuitous rat bashing (PETA is definitely going to be up in arms over the ep).

Anyway, here are my likes and dislikes regarding the episode

Likes
1) The Rat King doing the beginning narration
2) The fragmented flashbacks
3) The fight scenes
4) Steve Austin (Bionic Man) homage- ehn ehn ehn ehn!
5) The fact that Casey is still human, and really can't keep up with the turtles. I loved that he crawled under the fence instead of leaping over it like the guys.

Dislikes
1) No explanation of the rat control powers
2) Leo seemed flaky in regard to taking out the Rat King. First, he tosses a bunch of stars at the guy's head and seems content that the resulting fall killed or stopped him. Next, he's punching the guy while holding his swords instead of actually striking with the swords. It seems odd that Leo would go for the kill earlier, but not a second time.
3) The guys seemed to be disgusted by the rats. Not scared, but grossed out like they didn't want to touch them. It seems stranged for four guys who grew up in a sewer and who were raised by a giant rat.:shrug:
4) Raph kicking the last rat while it was actually running away. I laughed at the scene, but it still was unecessarily mean (even for Raph).

Simpler Simon

10-15-2005, 02:39 PM

4) Steve Austin (Bionic Man) homage- ehn ehn ehn ehn!
Hate to be the "this was before my time" guy, but what specific reference was this?

maczero

10-15-2005, 03:27 PM

Hate to be the "this was before my time" guy, but what specific reference was this?
You're making me feel old, SS.:sad:

That strange sound you heard when the Rat King did the 30 foot somersault was commonly used in a 70's tv show about a Bionic Man.

Scythemantis

10-15-2005, 04:35 PM

"The six million dollar man" aired on sci-fi all the way into the 90's, though.

I can never take "eaten by rats" scenes seriously. The real thing doesn't eat meat other than, ocassionally smaller live rodents/reptiles. It's exactly as silly as an "eaten by rabbits" scene. Though I guess control over man-eating rabbits would have actual, serious horror potential, too.

AdamYJ

10-15-2005, 04:51 PM

Yay! Rat King! I've been wanting to see a little more stuff I recognized from the old TMNT days. Though he doesn't rant and rave or play a magic flute like the one on the old cartoon, it's still definitely The Rat King. The old cartoon and toyline must have stuck relatively close in terms of personality and design (as opposed to the deal with Leatherhead). As for him being created by Bishop's experiments: I'm fine with it. I'm just glad he wasn't an Utrom (I don't care, I still think that idea for Shredder is bad). Though, I've been looking over the posts and have to ask, what is a "Slayer" in terms of Bishop's agenda. I know he's been doing crazy experiments, but I don't remember hearing that term before.

Tash

10-15-2005, 05:21 PM

Though, I've been looking over the posts and have to ask, what is a "Slayer" in terms of Bishop's agenda. I know he's been doing crazy experiments, but I don't remember hearing that term before.Do you remember last season, when Bishop sent out that super-clone of himself? (I think it was "Bishop's Gambit") That was a slayer. It could be the same one.

Crash

10-15-2005, 05:40 PM

And yep, it was Bishop's Slayer after all. I think they gave it away too quickly in the intro...should've saved it for that 2nd flashback at the end. But hey, what does this show know about narrative style?
Eh, maybe. But Knowing the Rat King was really Bishop's Slayer was what kept me watching when I may have just tuned out. "Eh, another random monster. Whatever..."

I really hope the guy actually talks next time. Taunting the Turtles with grunts really took the steam out of this episode. Still, I enjoyed it as a whole. Pretty good fighting, and it was good to see Casey training with the Turtles. (I second maczero: Casey tossing his bag over the razor-wire and then crawling under the fence was nice closign gag.)

Storm Eagle

10-15-2005, 05:47 PM

Fone Bone

10-15-2005, 05:48 PM

Do you remember last season, when Bishop sent out that super-clone of himself? (I think it was "Bishop's Gambit") That was a slayer. It could be the same one.More details please. My memory is hazy.

I liked this episode a lot. Although I generally prefer stories that aren't quite this dark I have to say the show was good from start to finish. If the Rat King WAS a clone of Bishop it explains his excellent fight moves and also the Turtles comments that they had seen these moves before. Interesting stuff and I really hope the Bishop plot takes center stage this season.

Casey climbing under the fence was histerical as was Mikey Zoidbergian mimic of the Three Stooges' Curly. Fun stuff.

Leo is starting to get annoying and I hope they make him normal soon. Or at least give a better non-copout reason as to the reason he is being that way.

The Rat King was suitably creepy and the rats were scary as well. I do have to wonder if the Turtles would have been so sickened if Splinter was there (excellent point maczero) but outside of that I have always bought Killer Rats because rats in gereral ARE kind of freaky. I think that's the only reason they work and Killer Bunnies do not outside of Monty Python.

I really enjoyed this episode but I just realized this is the first one I really liked this season. I hope this means a trend in the sense that the season is getting better and not what my like ratio will be this season. ****.

CyberCubed

10-15-2005, 06:14 PM

But Rat King CAN talk. Didn't you see his lips move when speaking at the end?

Anyway, I never thought Rat King was such a popular character in the TMNT universe, in both the comics and the original carrtoon.

Believe it or not, Rat King is one of the most popular TMNT villains ever, right after Shredder, the Foot, Krang, and Bebop and Rocksteady.

Kids loved Rat King in the old cartoon, I can't wait to buy the new toy too.

Duke

10-15-2005, 06:18 PM

More details please. My memory is hazy.Remember when the TMNT literally put Bishop through a hook, and then he just walked away? That was one of the Slayers.

Storm Eagle

10-15-2005, 06:21 PM

Believe it or not, Rat King is one of the most popular TMNT villains ever, right after Shredder, the Foot, Krang, and Bebop and Rocksteady.

Kids loved Rat King in the old cartoon,...
Hey, I'm not mad at that.:)

AdamYJ

10-15-2005, 07:14 PM

Believe it or not, Rat King is one of the most popular TMNT villains ever, right after Shredder, the Foot, Krang, and Bebop and Rocksteady.

Kids loved Rat King in the old cartoon, I can't wait to buy the new toy too.

He was practically the only other major villian they had on the old show. Shredder and Krang were the major threat, seeing as they were tied to the origin and had the Foot behind them (even if the Foot soldiers were expendable robots). Then there were Rat King and Leatherhead who were independent villians who occasionally teamed up.

I still don't remember the whole "Slayer" thing, but I missed chunks of last season because of work. All I saw was a rather kick-ass interpretation of The Rat King. I'm just glad he's not a robot or something like that.

TurtleTitan

10-15-2005, 07:18 PM

Remember when the TMNT literally put Bishop through a hook, and then he just walked away? That was one of the Slayers.Actually, I think that was actually Bishop. I believe the Slayer got caught in a tube and fell down the sewers, though it's been awhile since I've seen the episode (it's only aired once on television).

CyberCubed

10-15-2005, 07:33 PM

THE Bishop got impaled by that hook. Meanwhile the TMNT fought one of the Slayers and I think that slayer got electrocuted or something, I forgot what happened to him.

As for the old show villains, they also had Baxter Stockman. You can't forget Baxter as a mutated fly, he was probably as popular as Leatherhead and Rat King in the old cartoon.

Simpler Simon

10-15-2005, 07:49 PM

You're making me feel old, SS.:sad:

That strange sound you heard when the Rat King did the 30 foot somersault was commonly used in a 70's tv show about a Bionic Man.Well better old and a treasure trove of TV knowledge than young and thinking Loonatics is cool ;) Seriously, I've caught a lot of shows from the 60's and 70's (not so much 80's), Bionic Man was one of the few famous ones that slipped through. Is the slow frame-by-frame jump also part of the reference?

I forget what happened to the slayer last season, but I think towards the end of the battle the focus was more on Bishop than his clone. Something else I don't think has been mentioned yet, and that was Rat King swinging a chain much like Bishop did in that episode. Nice reference there.

Skyknight

10-15-2005, 07:52 PM

Well better old and a treasure trove of TV knowledge than young and thinking Loonatics is cool ;) Seriously, I've caught a lot of shows from the 60's and 70's (not so much 80's), Bionic Man was one of the few famous ones that slipped through. Is the slow frame-by-frame jump also part of the reference?
Oh hell yeah, in fact, that effect and sound has been parodied so many times, its' a staple of telivision reference humour

Ian

10-15-2005, 08:48 PM

Quick recap for the curious and confused: The Slayer is a genetically-altered clone of Bishop—he was made in a cup, like soup. He was also the prototype to Bishop’s would-be army of genetically-superior sleeper agents. The rat connection comes from the fact that Splinter's DNA was one of the main components in his creation. In Bishop’s Gambit, the Slayer fought the turtles, got trapped in a bioliquid tube, and went down the sewers when Bishop’s lab got flooded. Any connection to Finn (last week’s monster) would seem to be purely tangential, as they're entirely different (pardon the expression) monsters.
Simple Simon: I think they gave it away too quickly in the intro...should've saved it for that 2nd flashback at the end. But hey, what does this show know about narrative style? I disagree. The fact that the monster was the Slayer was obvious from the beginning (at least it was for me)—trying to pretend he wasn't and passing it off as a revelation would have been insulting. The question everyone was asking was whether the bandages meant that he was also The Rat King, a question which couldn’t remain unanswered for long.

Even with my/our initial suspicions quickly confirmed, I have to say that the Rat King was not at all what I expected. From what I know of the comics, he’s supposed to be a more mystical and character rather than a warrior. Given this set of expectations, it surprised me to see this incarnation of the character as an insane fighting machine. The fact that his appearance left a lot of questions unanswered (What was the Slayer trying to accomplish? Does he still have his healing and stealth powers? Was he controlling the rats, or merely exerting some kind of unconscious influence over them? How of his rocker is he, really?) makes me want to see him return even more.

Random thoughts:

Okay, all those rats…and no one mentions Mousers?
Something I noticed about the Slayer was how injured it looked: bruises, scars, pieces of skin missing…it struck me as weird, considering the healing powers he displayed in his first appearance. I wonder if it has something to do with the irregularities Stockman found last episode.
The rats unusually murderous disposition reminded me of Splinter, and how he was supposed to be different, even before the ooze—maybe these rats are as well?
I liked the bit about the broken building eventually causing the chain reaction that turned the tide; it’s really something you don’t see very often on TV or movies, so that bit of realism was appreciated.
I love how you can clearly see that the Slayer is a Bishop clone, yet is not quite identical; the fighting style is clearly an offshoot of his, and his voice is 95% Bishop’s.

Sharklady

10-15-2005, 09:29 PM

Leo Arcadia

10-15-2005, 09:53 PM

I've been out of touch with the Turtles show for a while. What happened to Leonardo's shell and why is he so angry?

NightwingAngelo

10-15-2005, 10:02 PM

Shell Yeah! That's the TMNT that I know and love.:D

A great episode all around. I never read teh comics like a few people around here seem to have, but he's a cool character nonetheless.

I did see the photo of the comic issue around though.

Leo... I don't mind his character at all. No Raph is the the one wanting to leave a fight? Whowoulda'thunkit?

The title a small reference to the movie "I, Robot" I'm guessing?

King_of_doom

10-15-2005, 10:13 PM

The title a small reference to the movie "I, Robot" I'm guessing?
Not really its the same title as the comic

I've been out of touch with the Turtles show for a while. What happened to Leonardo's shell and why is he so angry?
For make it fast and not too long it was in the final battle with the Shredder.

Tash

10-15-2005, 11:15 PM

I've been out of touch with the Turtles show for a while. What happened to Leonardo's shell and why is he so angry?Now for a longer version:
During the last battle, Karai betrayed him, and imapled him with a sword (hence the scar). Now, he's mad because they had to resort to a suicide mission to kill shredder. (they were ready to kill themselves, until a conveinient plot device saved everyone)

Andrew T. Hingson

10-16-2005, 03:59 AM

Not really its the same title as the comic
Yes, and I believe that was a reference to the book that the I, Robot movie spawned from. I think...

GREAT episode. Fantastic fighting and I LOVED the coloring in this episode. They used some tones we rarely ever see on TMNT (the green tone in the room Mikey was trapped in and the brownish tones of the rooms when daylight was fading) I must give my props to whoever picked those colors because they really made things more interesting visually than usual.

It was OBVIOUS that the "monster" was the Slayer and also that he was the Rat King but he doesn't mention that until the very end... the bandages are pretty much a dead give away... at least for a seasonsed TMNT fan such as myself (and others on this board). Heck most TMNT fans figured it out just from the short clip in the promo and the pervious knowledge that the Slayer got away AND The Rat King would be showing up in season 4.

Not much resolve here though. I was hoping the turtles and the Rat King would find an understanding and he'd become an allie against Bishop but I guess not. At least not yet. The sad thing is, I don't think the turtles realized that he's the Slayer. They must be following anime disguise rules... that if just about anything about you is different then no one knows who you really are. But Leo made a nod to feeling that he's fought the guy before.

And the reason that they aren't showing the Halloween episode next week is because Halloween is the week after that week.

Dark Fact

10-16-2005, 11:15 AM

I actually found this episode to be quite enjoyable. I knew that the Rat King was the Slayer due to the frequent flashbacks we see of him in Bishop's lab. The Rat King from the old toon was too charming. This Rat King is outright insane and I love it. :D

I agree that Leo's bad mood is really starting to get on my nerves. Someone seriously needs to give that guy some therapy! :mad:

I can't also seem to understand why Mikey was getting scared of rats considering that he's been living with one all his life. :rolleyes2

Another nitpick was the turtles easily able to fend off the rats the first time they were trapped in the silo. C'mon! The rats clearly outnumbered the turtles. They could've overwhelmed them. The turtles and Casey could've tried to get out of the silo the moment the rats started pouring in or just find a way to knock the Rat King off the silo.

After this episode ended, there is no doubt that the Rat King will definitely be back sometime later in the series. I can't wait.

4 stars for this episode.

CyberCubed

10-16-2005, 01:38 PM

Now that the new show has Leatherhead and Ratking, all they need to do is make a sequal to the old cartoon's "Leatherhead Meets the Rat King" :D

http://www.ninjaturtles.com/cartoon/guide/cart054.htm

That was a funny episode in the old show.

sdp

10-16-2005, 01:44 PM

seems like Leo got a few traits from the DCU(comcs) Batman, and that is not a good thing.

Anarky

10-16-2005, 02:07 PM

great episode

"I am rather surprised they got away with several eaten-by-rats images on a Saturday Morning show. Sure, the last one turned out to be a fake-out, but those bones littering the 'arena' clearly indicate some previous visitors didn't get off so easily. :shudder:"

those bones were most likely from stray cats or dogs that wandered by...or perhaps hobos who chose the wrong place to take a nap.

i laughed hella hard when Raph kicked that last rat: Turtle is OFF the MENU!!!
And when Casey tossed his bag and crawled under the fence.
Bionic Man reference: kudos
Loved the sunset animation. It's nice to see TMNT during the daylight occassionally (loved the daybreak fight in City at War)

a little background on the Slayer: for those who missed "Bishop's Gambit"
Bishop kidnapped Splinter and extracted his DNA to complete his prototype clone, The Slayer. The purpose of the Slayer program is to weed out and exterminate extraterrestrial life living on Earth...as well as assimilate into the human populace. In the conflict, the Slayer was washed away into the sewers and re-emerged in "I, Monster" I recommend renting/buying TMNT 3.5 (it has both eps)

Scythemantis

10-16-2005, 04:18 PM

> The real (rats) doesn't eat meat other than, ocassionally smaller live rodents/reptiles. <

They do, actually. I once lived on a farm as a kid, and the rats there ate a couple of my pet rabbits who escaped from their pen at an inopportune time.

Large males will gang up and hunt together when desperate for food, but it's pretty rare and a rabbit is probably the biggest thing they'd ever try to take down, even if we're talking hundreds of rats at once.

Sharklady

10-16-2005, 05:19 PM

^ Under natural conditions, yes.

But who knows what mind-controlled rats are capable of? (Does the name 'Willard' ring a bell?)

Freedom Fighter

10-21-2005, 02:24 AM

Psycho Leonardo? Meet... Psycho 'Rat King.'

This was easily the best episode of the season, starting with an innocent 'capture the flag' stealth game (and Raph still cracking at Mikey's 'Battle Nexus Champion' spouts) and turning into a fight for survival against hundreds of rats.

Honestly, the flashbacks gave me the impression that 'Rat King' was one of Bishop's creatures, but it never crossed my mind that it was the prototype, the Slayer too. Would've helped if I had remembered that part of that episode.

Raph also put it best during Leo and RK's battle... let Leo handle it alone, because he's got monsters of his own to battle (within, if you didn't catch my drift).

8.5 out of 10 for "I, Monster." Some of the best fight scenes of the season equal one of the best performances out of any animated series season-to-date.

As someone said in another thread earlier this week... why can't the rest of 4KidsTV's shows be this good on a consistent basis?