Herman & Katnip--The Inspiration for Speedy Gonzales

[Thad Komorowski]

Okay, so we all know how most H&K cartoons go. Herman's cousins/pals want something or starving, and Katnip keeps the object of desire away from them. Herman comes along, gets rid of Katnip, and all of the mice enjoy their victory over the cat.

But doesn't anyone think that a good percentage of the Speedy cartoons borrow the premise from this earlier series? Although I do enjoy Speedy a lot more...



-Thad

[J Lee]

Warner's did fall into that type of formul a little, but nowhere near as badly as the H&K series. The next two cartoons after "Speedy Gonzales" were McKimson's "Tabasco Road," where Speedy goes to save his two muy boracho friends, while in Freleng's "Gonzales Tamales" the other male mice actually get Sylvester to go after Speedy because he's stealing all their girls. Famous Studios never tried either one of those plot variation (they did have Herman saving his fat and constantly hungry Italian cousin from a Neopolitan voiced Katnip who liked to sing his own version of "That's Amore" in one of the series' final cartoons, a plot Paramount may have borrowed from "Tabasco Road").

[Thad Komorowski]

The cartoon you're talking about is "You Said a Mouseful" (1958), in which Katnip owns a pizzaria. Just to let you know, "Chubby" (the fat little mouse) was not Italian.

There's also a few other H&K cartoons that broke the formula, two that come to mind are "Of Mice and Magic" (the one where Katnip kidnaps Herman's girlfriend, Louise), "A Bicep Built for Two", and of course the final cartoon in the series, "Katnip's Big Day" (a cheater cartoon).

Is it just me, or was "A Bicep Built for Two" originally a Buzzy the Crow cartoon? The plot is so similar to one, with Herman giving Katnip excersising tips, clobbering the cat, and trying to get away, instead of the funny crow.


-Thad

[J Lee]

Thad --

Thanks for the correction. It's been such a long time since I've seen "You Said a Mouseful" I had forgotten a few of the details (except that Chubby says "I'm hungry!" an awful lot through the cartoon).

"Bicept Built for Two" definitely stands out among the early 1950s H&Ks as breaking the standard formula -- it's sort of halfway between a Buzzy short and a Popeye cartoon (Jackson Beck's voice for the muscle-bound cat sounds a lot like Bluto, anyway). Since by 1954 Paramount's cartoons were so formulistic, this one was always a breath of fresh air when it came on TV.

[Thad Komorowski]

Also, "Owly to Bed" follows the same formula as "You Said a Mouseful". Herman tries to keep Hooty (an owl, how can't see in the light) away from Katnip, who wants him for lunch. Hooty seems to get immediate super powers in the dark, clobbering the cat (even when he's inside Katnip's mouth). Also, this 1959 (the last year of all of the Harvey cartoon characters) cartoon marked the first time Katnip wore green pants. He also wore them in "Felineous Assault" and "Fun on the Furlough".

Speaking of "Felineous Assault", that's another one that broke the fomula. Katnip teaches his nephew, Kitnip, how to catch mice, and chases Herman. However, Herman got Kitnip out from under a board and the two became friends, so Kitnip does everything in his power to stop Uncle Katnip from catching Herman. BTW, very funny ending in this one. :D


-Thad

[J Lee]

"Felineous Assault" was a lot like Hanna-Barbera's "Professor Tom" in terms of plot, with an ending borrowed from sveral cartoons, including Famous Studios "Cad and Caddy." while "Owly to Bed" was really violent for a cartoon where you never saw the action, since all of Owly's attacks on Katnip came in the dark (great cost saving measure, too). However, I doubt Katnip being hacked in half, even in the dark, would make it past the TV censors today.

[Dave Mackey]

"Felineous Assault" was a lot like Hanna-Barbera's "Professor Tom" in terms of plot, with an ending borrowed from sveral cartoons, including Famous Studios "Cad and Caddy." while "Owly to Bed" was really violent for a cartoon where you never saw the action, since all of Owly's attacks on Katnip came in the dark (great cost saving measure, too). However, I doubt Katnip being hacked in half, even in the dark, would make it past the TV censors today.

"Felineous Assault" was made on a budget of about $23, apparently. This was also the cartoon where H&K wore pants (!) so that they would be easier to animate. Nevertheless, the one dominant track from its music score wound up in the Winston Sharples all-purpose stock music package, used on other 60's cartoons.

[Sogturtle]

Originally posted by Thad Komorowski
Okay, so we all know how most H&K cartoons go. Herman's cousins/pals want something or starving, and Katnip keeps the object of desire away from them. Herman comes along, gets rid of Katnip, and all of the mice enjoy their victory over the cat.

But doesn't anyone think that a good percentage of the Speedy cartoons borrow the premise from this earlier series? Although I do enjoy Speedy a lot more...

-Thad

I don't mean to be unkind, but I strongly doubt this as very feasible. The reason for my saying this is simple... The Warner cartoonists really didn't view the Famous Studio as being any kind of competition (MGM, Lantz, Disney, and UPA were the real competitors). As such they would be extremely unlikely to borrow anything idea-wise from Famous (orrrrr Terrytoons or Columbia/Mintz/Screen Gems).

[Thad Komorowski]

Well, I too doubt that WB found Famous Studios as a rival studio, but I'm just saying that some of the Speedys were like most of the H&K cartoons, but it's probably just a coincidence.


-Thad

[J Lee]

Go back to the 40s and you finds some Famous Studio plots ending up at Warners and other places as well. Jim Tyer's 1945 "Cheese Burglar" with Herman has a very similar plot to Freleng's 1949 "Stooge for a Mouse," though in Friz' cartoon, Sylvester and the dog never do catch on to the mouse's scheme.

Famous/Paramount's late 1950s cartoons get a bad rap because the animation started going to hell in 1957 (check out the end of "The Crystal Brawl" next time CN shows that Popeye to get a limited example of the limited animation), but IMHO, the stories from the 1956-59 period are far stronger and less formulistic than the 1951-55 shorts, which followed the same plots from H&K, Casper, Little Audrey, Baby Huey and even Popeye, over and over again.

[Bobby B]

Originally posted by Dave Mackey
Nevertheless, the one dominant track from its music score wound up in the Winston Sharples all-purpose stock music package, used on other 60's cartoons.


I remember that music from the KFS-TV "Dog Catcher Popeye".