Who's the more loyal fan?

[alexander knox]

First off this thread is not intended to be a "who's better competition". Its just something I've thought about in the past and honestly can see points for both sides. So I have no opinion as of yet personally.

Back when Batman Beyond first came out, I had friends who would boycot it before even watching an episode because they couldn't stomich the thought of any other person than bruce wayne behinde the mantle. Sad thing because we all know now what a great show that turned out to be.

Now its the same thing with The Batman, where despite the fact that it is improving, (but still not enough if you ask me) many have not watched past the first episode.

Which raises this question:
Who's the more loyal fan? He who refuses to watch and support a show that he feels misrepresents his favorite character, or he who will watch anything involving his favorite character whether he approves or not?

[Azrael24]

he who will watch anything involving his favorite character whether he approves or not

most the batman haters hate the batman but have only seen one or two episodes, and i feel that thats enough to hate a show. if you hate a show you must have at least seen more than a few episodes.

[A.J]

Id say "he who will watch anything involving his favorite character whether he approves or not"

Take me for example, a DCAU lover since the v beginning of BTAS. Ive seen every single DCAU show that has aired so far, including all the DTV movies but I didnt have any doubt when The Batman show came out. I still dont like it that much but Im getting to really love the show, including all the excitement Im feeling for TB vs Dracula movie. I wouldnt say that the more loyal fan would be the one who fights with everybody when they dont agree or like something on certain show, episode or movie, Id say the more loyal fan would be the one who supports his fav. character no matter what, despite of others opinions :anime:

[alexander knox]

Same thing for the schmaker films?

[Style]

I sort of feel that "fan loyalty" is sort of a stunted concept. Loyal? To a show? Oh come on. This is just all stuff designed to Entertain me. I will what what I want, when I want.

I like BTAS? I watch it. I like BB? I watch it. I like TB? I watch it. I like JLU? I watch it. I don't care if some fans percieve one show as hurting another or if it's an "impure" concept. For example, they can't use Batman characters on JLU. So what? I'm not going to waste my energy and time getting upset about it, especially when there's not much I can do about it. And I'm not going to let that keep me from enjoying The Batman. This stuff is meant to entertain me and divert me from the problems in my life. No sense in getting worked up over some far away internal corporate dispute. If B.T. really cares about the Batembargo, let him fight it.

So, I don't really care about "fan loyalty" as concerns specific characters. I'll sample about anything featuring Batman. If it holds my attention, great. If not, I'll chuck it.

Besides, I like alternate interpretations of Batman. Sticking to one exclusively is narrow, and keeps you from having a broad understanding of the character. Especially since Batman on JLU is starting to get characterized in a very narrow way.

[Jeffery Duke]

It is really a relative thing. I mean being Loyal to a show is really a bad choice of words. Like Style said, the show is there to entertain me. If I don't like the show then I don't feel an obligation to watch it just because im a Batman nut.

[alexander knox]

No sense in getting worked up over some far away internal corporate dispute. If B.T. really cares about the Batembargo, let him fight it.

I didnt really mean for this thread to be another "bat embargo" dispute. It really has more to do with the interpretation preference rather than how one show effects another.
Ive a hard time believing you have such a lack of passion for the shows, considering the fact that you belong to a forum built solely to discuss these types of things, and are a senior member at that. Or maybe your just trying to diffuse the topic built on the premise that im a "newbie" and i havnt earned my right for any of my topics to merit much thought.
However you do bring up an interesting point. maybe the answer to my question posted is "who really cares?". some of us granted are more obsessive by nature than others. Hopefully though your comments wont difuse anyone elses desire to post because now they feel by having an opinion they will sound nerdy, cause thats almost how you made it sound

[Zuric]

I vote for those who watch it for thier favorite char.

and for those that like a single representation, should stick to that and stay out of the other shows that other people like that they supposedly "Hate" and say they dont watch, but know enough to argue that they "Hate" it

[Jor-El]

Dissent is the highest form of patriotism. If you were really a fan of something, you wouldn't sit and watch your favorite characters get butchered and reinterpreted for a bunch of little kids.

[Zuric]

hey, nothing against you purists, just if you dont like it just keep out of the conversations of the people who do, and we leave your conversations alone, or thats how i am so bye

[Fone Bone]

Dissent is the highest form of patriotism. If you were really a fan of something, you wouldn't sit and watch your favorite characters get butchered and reinterpreted for a bunch of little kids.Seconded. I kinda like The Batman but I will NEVER stop resenting it. Never, I say! I say that with full nerdy pride. I understand the idea that some folks will watch their favorite characters just because they are their favorite characters but I'm too much of a geek to feel that way.

It raises an interesting conundrom for me sometimes regarding Disney Comics. I love the stories of Carl Barks and Don Rosa more than breathing and naughty thoughts. Sometimes it bothers me when some other artists do Uncle Scrooge stories, ESPECIALLY in a modern setting but I realize that the new writer/artists are helping to keep young readers interested which will make the comics more successful. But I'll slog through them ALL to get every single Barks story reprinted along with all of Rosa's previous and new stories. Just because that is the nature of the fandom.

[Jeffery Duke]

hey, nothing against you purists, just if you dont like it just keep out of the conversations of the people who do, and we leave your conversations alone, or thats how i am so bye
It's not a purist thing. I am all for a new Batman cartoon. Infact I REALLY like the animation for The Batman (even if it is very Anime-ish). But for many people the fantastic writing in BTAS is what made it what it was. If The Batman can improve on its writing (and from what i heard it is slowly doing that) then I am all for it. But watching it just because it's Batman is stupid. There was another group of people who were "loyal" to a symbol and followed it no matter where it went, and they were called Nazis. Think about that, take it home, chew on it, it's delicious.

[Fone Bone]

It's not a purist thing. I am all for a new Batman cartoon. Infact I REALLY like the animation for The Batman (even if it is very Anime-ish). But for many people the fantastic writing in BTAS is what made it what it was. If The Batman can improve on its writing (and from what i heard it is slowly doing that) then I am all for it. But watching it just because it's Batman is stupid. There was another group of people who were "loyal" to a symbol and followed it no matter where it went, and they were called Nazis. Think about that, take it home, chew on it, it's delicious.Hear that you The Batman fans? You guys are Nazis. I'm sure none of you guys gassed any folks at Austwicz but liking a mediocre cartoon is just as bad.

[Jeffery Duke]

Hear that you The Batman fans? You guys are Nazis. I'm sure none of you guys gassed any folks at Austwicz but liking a mediocre cartoon is just as bad.
Couldn't have said it better myself :evil:

[Zuric]

It's not a purist thing. I am all for a new Batman cartoon. Infact I REALLY like the animation for The Batman (even if it is very Anime-ish). But for many people the fantastic writing in BTAS is what made it what it was. If The Batman can improve on its writing (and from what i heard it is slowly doing that) then I am all for it. But watching it just because it's Batman is stupid. There was another group of people who were "loyal" to a symbol and followed it no matter where it went, and they were called Nazis. Think about that, take it home, chew on it, it's delicious.
i'm not saying it like that, it just grew on me, alot of shows i recently called stupid did, so i gave it a second chance, and decided not to compare it to something totally different, and i enjoyed it
i mean, people dislike it because its not BTAS, but i enjoy it because it isn't BTAS, if it was do you think people would watch it, no they'd be 7x's hard on it, so i just take it in as it comes, and see it as "The Batman", and not as "Not BTAS"

[Fone Bone]

Did I ever mention how annoying I find internet Hitler comparisons? Everybody does it, so it MUST be all right. I mean it's not like real people suffered and the subject is being ridiculed for no good reason other than to prove that people who watch a certain TV show are asses. Right?

[Zuric]

hey, how do you think i feel about that

i'm part japanese
my friend is italian
and may other friend is german
i get enough crap about Nazi everyday, so please don't bring it here

[Jeffery Duke]

I guess I forgot to push my Sarcasm button on my original post.

Anyway, I don't believe I ment to compare TB with BTAS. If it came off that way I apoligize. I don't see them as the same show in any way (other then both being Batman). I was just trying to use BTAS as an example of what draws me into a show.

PS: I'll make fun of death all I want, i find death and life insanely funny.

[Azrael24]

It's not a purist thing. I am all for a new Batman cartoon. Infact I REALLY like the animation for The Batman (even if it is very Anime-ish). But for many people the fantastic writing in BTAS is what made it what it was. If The Batman can improve on its writing (and from what i heard it is slowly doing that) then I am all for it. But watching it just because it's Batman is stupid. There was another group of people who were "loyal" to a symbol and followed it no matter where it went, and they were called Nazis. Think about that, take it home, chew on it, it's delicious.
well, i know im gulity because i watch the batman because it has 'batman' in it. i hated the thought of another batman thats not part of the DCAU but eventually i got over it and i started watching the batman because at least it was batman. batman is an enjoyable character and thats why i watch the batman, because its enjoyable. but i try it out first then decide whether its enjoyable or not. i dont like watching superfriends (and i have seen a good deal of its episodes) but it does have batman in it.

i know its very confusing and it makes no sense at all but thats just the way i think :D

[Style]

I didnt really mean for this thread to be another "bat embargo" dispute. It really has more to do with the interpretation preference rather than how one show effects another.
Ive a hard time believing you have such a lack of passion for the shows, considering the fact that you belong to a forum built solely to discuss these types of things, and are a senior member at that. Or maybe your just trying to diffuse the topic built on the premise that im a "newbie" and i havnt earned my right for any of my topics to merit much thought.
However you do bring up an interesting point. maybe the answer to my question posted is "who really cares?". some of us granted are more obsessive by nature than others. Hopefully though your comments wont difuse anyone elses desire to post because now they feel by having an opinion they will sound nerdy, cause thats almost how you made it sound I wasn't trying to show myself as superior, nor make it a newbie/Senior thing. I was just trying to express my view. And I'm sorry I made it about BTAS/JLU vs. The Batman, but that was the most pertinent example.

Yes, I do get passionate over shows I like. But, at a certain point in the past, I had the epiphany that becoming "brand loyal" in consumer matters was a highly silly thing.

I had that epiphany over something unrelated: Video games. For years, from the 16 bit era to the modern one, I was a die-hard Nintendo fan, and touted it's superiority over all competitors. Oh, and I got really fired up over it too, engaging in "debates" with people of opposite game orientation, (first Sega then Sony,) and really took the whole thing personally. Then, during the Gamecube/PS2 era, I sort of woke up from that. I had a Gamecube, and I realized PS2 had a lot of games I wanted to play that I couldn't. I then really wanted a PS2. But, this raised conflict in my, as I debated, "Does this mean I jump ship into Sony's camp?" That's when I realized, "well, I could just have both."

And that was it. I saw the situation for what it really was. Gamecube and PS2 are just hardware that support games. That's all they are. Hardware for my entertainment. And getting loyal to one or the other was silly. It's not like it was something important, like family or country or beliefs, you know, things WORTH getting loyal over. It was just toys. And being "loyal" to one or the other was just limiting ME. So I bought a PS 2, and have that in addition to the Gamecube.

So, after that point, I don't get "brand loyal." There's no inherant moral value to a brand. It's just which mega corporation gets my money. Are you a DC guy, or part of the "Make Mine Marvel" camp? Shoot, can't I follow both? And I do. Doesn't hurt anyone.

That's my point, this is all entertainment. It's a silly thing to get loyal over.


Dissent is the highest form of patriotism. If you were really a fan of something, you wouldn't sit and watch your favorite characters get butchered and reinterpreted for a bunch of little kids. Oh, whatever. Patriotism eh? You know you're pledging allegiance to a cartoon, dontcha?

This is insane. While it hasn't happened in a while, being called out as "Disloyal" to the DCAU because I watch the Batman is absurd. I've seen so many posters, (I won't name names, but I could) make this an "Us vs. Them" thing. Well, I'm both on the side of Us and Them, so what does that make me? A double agent?

And not sit back while your favorite characters are butchered? Whaddaya gonna do, lead a revolution or something? It's just new interpretations of characters. It happens all the time. Batman has been interpreted and re-interpreted a hundred ways long before almost all of us were born: And God willing, will continue to be so long after we're all dead. And besides, it's not like they're killing or hiding BTAS to make way for The Batman. Last I checked, they were rushing the complete series on DVD out the door, to make sure we could all have it.

Now, I'm not saying don't be discriminating. I only watching The Batman because I find it enjoyable. I still prefer BTAS to The Batman, but lets face it, there aint anymore BTAS material being made. (And don't try to pin that on The Batman: it was cancelled years ago.) But if you don't like the new stuff, don't watch it.

But don't make this about loyalty. Please. It's all shows. They aren't hurting each other. And none of them are worth getting "loyal" over.

I know so many people aren't going to accept this viewpoint. As silly as it is, most people do get brand loyal. But it only limits themselves.


Seconded. I kinda like The Batman but I will NEVER stop resenting it. That's your right. But I hope that's because that's how you really feel, not because you think you HAVE to be resentful of it if you like JLU.

[The_Magick_Hat]

"The Batman" is not "Batman: The Animated Series". I think we're all aware of this fact by now. That being said, while I do prefer B:TAS over TB, I by no means hate the latter. It's still Batman, just with new animation, and it has gone from fairly decent to pretty damn good from what I've seen. I'd rather like it for what it is than hate it for what it's not, it makes me feel so much better at the end of the day. It's what I did for BB, after all, and I ended up loving it.

So I guess I fit in the "watch it since it has a favorite character, as long as it is done well and improves on its mistakes" mold. Go figure. :D

[JLU Dude]

Do I like B: TAS? Yes. Is it my favorite? Yes. Do I like The Batman? Yes. It's a different interpretation and that's okay. Did they change some things? Yes, but here's something that a lot of the peole who hate the Batman forget: So did B: TAS.
Jeffery Duke, I think the problem Zuric had with you remark was comparing the Batman fans to the Nazis, not comparing B: TAS to TB, and I have to agree that it was uncalled for and possibly out of line.:mad:

[alexander knox]

But, at a certain point in the past, I had the epiphany that becoming "brand loyal" in consumer matters was a highly silly thing.
oh, dont even get me started on coke vs. pepsi! :anime:
You know, maybe your right that the word loyal does sound a little silly when refering to cartoons, i actually spent some time thinking about what word to use in the original post. "Whos the biggest fan?" and even "Whos the bigger nerd?" came to mind. But loyalty has lost its true meaning.
Think of it this way, lets use the word loyal to denote another entertainment medium. Say someone is a "loyal" Michael Jackson fan. does that mean he only listens to MJ all the time? he"ll turn off the radio any time another artist is on? no, it just means that he stick with him for good albums and bad, through the the thriller video to child molestation charges.
True some have taken things like this to that extent. I remember hearing once if you like Pearl Jam, you have to hate Nirvana. My mom said it was that way too with The Beatles and Elvis. More recently maybe its Britney vs. Christina A Gorilla. Retarded. They both suck.
If we wanna get all bent out of shape over a word though, maybe we shouldnt say "fan" either since few of us here are actually "fanatics"

[Style]

If we wanna get all bent out of shape over a word though, maybe we shouldnt say "fan" either since few of us here are actually "fanatics"I didn't think I was getting "bent out of shape." I thought I was just discussing your topic.

[The Penguin]

Yes, I do get passionate over shows I like. But, at a certain point in the past, I had the epiphany that becoming "brand loyal" in consumer matters was a highly silly thing.

and lots more stuff...I must compliment you on the greatness of your post Style. Some very deep thoughts there that we should all perhaps think about relating to Batman and just our lives in general.


As far as my own thoughts I must side with He who refuses to watch and support a show that he feels misrepresents his favorite character. And by that I don't mean that in addition to refusing to watch he goes around telling everyone why he doesn't watch, just don't watch it. I'm not going to subject myself to something I don't enjoy because someone or something I like is involved in it. I enjoy watching The Batman so I watch it. If I didn't it would be a waste of time. I like the new Ninja Turtles so I watch it. I checked on the new "Sigma 6" G.I. Joe and didn't like it so I only watched it the one time. I don't need to run around telling everyone that and I disliked it enough that I don't feel the need to watch it again. People are still entitled to like it and watch it every week. Nobody likes the same stuff, otherwise entertainment would be all the same thing. I can use that half hour to do something I'd like to do or watch something I'd like to watch rather than watch a show so I can talk about how I don't care for it.

I've seen posters that have called themselves "loyalists" and they refused to criticize anything, and I mean anything that involved the characters and shows they were "loyal" to. Other posters got disgusted when they would almost universally hate something and the loyalists insulted them by saying they had to like it because it Batman or whatever and then talked about how they automatically liked it because it dealt with that character or that show. Corporations like that kind of blind brand loyalty, but why miss out on something great because you don't have time because you are dedicated to a substandard product or something that doesn't fit your needs? You can be a fan of something without liking everything about it and everything that's put out by it. It doesn't mean you didn't give it a chance, it means you might be more discerning with how you spend your time and with how busy everyone is these days, it's a necessity.

[Shadow09]

I think if you follow the show and you go on a website that has a forum and you spend lots of time posting like I do with Smallville :p

Than maybe "fan loyality" comes into play... but the show is out to try and get a fan base not really fans who are loyal, fans who stick through the show the best of times and worst of time i.e Angel how sad an ending it had... oh i am getting off topic now.... um... yea i guess that's about all i have to say on this topic :sad:

[Beyond Batman]

Every Bat show has it's good, it's bad, and it's ugly. I just choose to appreciate the good in all the Bat shows... even Shumacher's run.

[alexander knox]

I didn't think I was getting "bent out of shape." I thought I was just discussing your topic.


Again another bad choice of words on my part. "Hung up on" maybe?
I wasnt directing that towards anyone specific. :cool:

[bskcase]

I would say I was mostly a DC/Batman fan. I started collecting Batman comics when I was 12 and have never stopped. I did read other DC titles that caught my interest. Superman, JL, Teen Titans and Green Lantern. I remember watching the first Batman movie about 5 times at the movies and I loved the BTAS. I watched every episode. I also collected almost every Batman toy.

When Superman came out, I watched every episode too. I really liked the Timm/Dini style. But Batman was a superior show. Superman did hit its stride after their second season. But I do agree that the show could have been bolder and story driven. It could have used more story arcs and such.

JL and JLU was really the best though. I think it has been the most boldest and well written show. Starcrossed was the best JL movie. JLU has done some amazing things.

The Batman is OK. I do watch the episodes and I think the new season has been better, but I have some problems with it. I like the look and design, but I don't like how they have handled certain characters.
I think this is the worst Joker ever. I don't think the writers know how to handle the Joker. But the episode where he dresses up like Batman was great.

I hated that Mr. Freeze was a common thief. I liked the idea of him being a scientist.

Penguin, Bane, Riddler, and Poison Ivy have been good.

I guess, I will basicly watch everything DC.

[Jeffery Duke]

Jeffery Duke, I think the problem Zuric had with you remark was comparing the Batman fans to the Nazis, not comparing B: TAS to TB, and I have to agree that it was uncalled for and possibly out of line.:mad: Once again I point out that the Nazi line was a joker, hence the funny tag at the end of taking it home and chewing on it.


Anyway, in an effort to avoid being one of those fans who don't watch more then 1 episode of The Batman, I have added their season 1 DVD to my Netflix list and have illegally downloaded (don't worry I always buy the DVDs of shows I like) a few episodes from Season 3 (I believe) so I can compare the progress and see what I think about it.

Two things that will not change on my opinion on The Batman are...
1- The animation is fantastic in my opinion.
2- Their version of The Joker is an insult to Mr. J's great legacy and I am personally offended by the episode "Rubber Face of Comedy" for pulling lines and plots from "The Killing Joke"

[Arsenal]

When offered two options--to indulge or to abstain--it usually takes more effort to abstain. (Yes, there are all kinds of smarmy counter-examples like "death" or "maiming," but those situations rarely come with options.) If we are offered a product for free (practically) like a television show, I think it says more about us if we refuse to watch it.

This is not to say those who watch are of a weaker constitution, only that they have taken the easier of two routes. Perhaps an example...

I like comic books. (I know, shocking.) If someone offered me a comic book that I knew to be awful, and I accepted it merely because I like comic books than I have shown no force of will. If I reject the comic book for explicit reasons (poor writing, lazy art, Bendis is involved), then I have made the more difficult decision. Also, I have been rude to the person offering me a comic book.

Now some completists feel the need to collect everything of a certain type. (Beanie Babies come to mind as a relatively recent craze.) I can respect that too, because people who do that are trying to establish control over a small sect of a chaotic world. (I bet you pog-collectors didn't know that.) But even this activity is not loyal. It's neurotic. (I say this without malice. All people are neurotic about something. It's comforting to have traditions, patterns, collections...)

In conclusion, I cannot write about loyalty; but I will say the more discerning fan will know when to reject something.

[Zuric]

from what i've seen its more of which artists and writers of show and what they do to make people dislike the actual showso it may be of which style people are like better

[90'sCartoonMan]

Seconded. I kinda like The Batman but I will NEVER stop resenting it. Never, I say! I say that with full nerdy pride. I understand the idea that some folks will watch their favorite characters just because they are their favorite characters but I'm too much of a geek to feel that way.
I feel the same way, Fone. I knew the Fantastic Four movie was going to butcher Dr. Doom, but I went to see it on opening day (well, that Saturday, actually). And you know what? I didn't like it, but I'd do it again. I'm the kind of fan who, if they see a new interpretation of the character, I have to check it out. I guess I could say I resent the Fantastic Four movie for not depicting the Dr. Doom I've grown up loving, but I saw the movie out of loyalty, and I'm expressing my distate of it by not seeing it again and not buying the DVD.


And not sit back while your favorite characters are butchered? Whaddaya gonna do, lead a revolution or something? It's just new interpretations of characters. It happens all the time. Batman has been interpreted and re-interpreted a hundred ways long before almost all of us were born: And God willing, will continue to be so long after we're all dead. And besides, it's not like they're killing or hiding BTAS to make way for The Batman. Last I checked, they were rushing the complete series on DVD out the door, to make sure we could all have it.
Amen to that. I feel the same with The Batman as I do with Fantastic Four. I watch it to see how it handles the characters. I may not love it, some things I intensely dislike, but I still watch it. It has its highs and lows, but it hasn't proven it's worth me spending money on it (yet).

I can have it both ways. I can watch something I don't like because it's based on something I do like, but I don't have to boycott it to show how much I don't like it. My "approval", if you will, comes in the form of how much I'd spend on it and the things I tell others about it.

Heh, Christina A. Gorilla...

[OneManHairBand]

Aaaaaack! Coke vs. Pepsi?!? Elvis vs. The Beatles?!? DC vs. Marvel?!? These are quite impossible choices to make when all have such merit and inspire such debate among the masses!

Regarding "brand name loyalty"... there are plenty of both DC and Marvel properties that I enjoy, and more than a few of each that I have no affinity for whatsoever. But that doesn't mean that I completely turn a blind eye when the properties that I do enjoy are handled poorly. Especially when decisions are made by people who have no concept of what the property truly represents, and ignores source material for "marketing" and/or "target demographic" reasons, and not creative ones.

There are more than a few TV shows (live action and animated) that I initially balked at, but then eventually came around. Smallville is a perfect example of how wrong I was. When the show was in the early stages of production, I was vehemently against it, spouting off to all and all who would listen about what a train wreck I thought the show would be, mainly because I had such fond memories of the first two Superman films. When the first season aired, I completely dismissed it after only watching the premiere episode. But I decided to give the show a second look when the season finale aired, and my opinion completely reversed. I've been hooked ever since.

I can't say the same about The Batman. I have tried to find positive aspects of the show, and after watching all of Season 1, and the first 3 episodes of Season 3, to me there isn't that much to compliment. Of all the villain redesigns, the only ones I like are Firefly & The Riddler. Of all the characters, the most consistant are Alfred & Gordon.

Still, and mostly because I am a self-admitted completist when it comes to the animated adventures of Batman, I continue to watch, record and keep as much as possible. I suppose I will eventually find merit in The Batman (if it runs long enough), but for right now, I still see it as a marketing gimmick by WB to see how little quality product they can get away with (and still turn a profit) regarding DC Comics properties.

[Fone Bone]

I wasn't trying to show myself as superior, nor make it a newbie/Senior thing. I was just trying to express my view. And I'm sorry I made it about BTAS/JLU vs. The Batman, but that was the most pertinent example.

Yes, I do get passionate over shows I like. But, at a certain point in the past, I had the epiphany that becoming "brand loyal" in consumer matters was a highly silly thing.

I had that epiphany over something unrelated: Video games. For years, from the 16 bit era to the modern one, I was a die-hard Nintendo fan, and touted it's superiority over all competitors. Oh, and I got really fired up over it too, engaging in "debates" with people of opposite game orientation, (first Sega then Sony,) and really took the whole thing personally. Then, during the Gamecube/PS2 era, I sort of woke up from that. I had a Gamecube, and I realized PS2 had a lot of games I wanted to play that I couldn't. I then really wanted a PS2. But, this raised conflict in my, as I debated, "Does this mean I jump ship into Sony's camp?" That's when I realized, "well, I could just have both."

And that was it. I saw the situation for what it really was. Gamecube and PS2 are just hardware that support games. That's all they are. Hardware for my entertainment. And getting loyal to one or the other was silly. It's not like it was something important, like family or country or beliefs, you know, things WORTH getting loyal over. It was just toys. And being "loyal" to one or the other was just limiting ME. So I bought a PS 2, and have that in addition to the Gamecube.

So, after that point, I don't get "brand loyal." There's no inherant moral value to a brand. It's just which mega corporation gets my money. Are you a DC guy, or part of the "Make Mine Marvel" camp? Shoot, can't I follow both? And I do. Doesn't hurt anyone.

That's my point, this is all entertainment. It's a silly thing to get loyal over.

Oh, whatever. Patriotism eh? You know you're pledging allegiance to a cartoon, dontcha?

This is insane. While it hasn't happened in a while, being called out as "Disloyal" to the DCAU because I watch the Batman is absurd. I've seen so many posters, (I won't name names, but I could) make this an "Us vs. Them" thing. Well, I'm both on the side of Us and Them, so what does that make me? A double agent?

And not sit back while your favorite characters are butchered? Whaddaya gonna do, lead a revolution or something? It's just new interpretations of characters. It happens all the time. Batman has been interpreted and re-interpreted a hundred ways long before almost all of us were born: And God willing, will continue to be so long after we're all dead. And besides, it's not like they're killing or hiding BTAS to make way for The Batman. Last I checked, they were rushing the complete series on DVD out the door, to make sure we could all have it.

Now, I'm not saying don't be discriminating. I only watching The Batman because I find it enjoyable. I still prefer BTAS to The Batman, but lets face it, there aint anymore BTAS material being made. (And don't try to pin that on The Batman: it was cancelled years ago.) But if you don't like the new stuff, don't watch it.

But don't make this about loyalty. Please. It's all shows. They aren't hurting each other. And none of them are worth getting "loyal" over.

I know so many people aren't going to accept this viewpoint. As silly as it is, most people do get brand loyal. But it only limits themselves. Style as great as your points are it doesn't take into account that being a geek is not only fun, but something most people feel the need to defend. If TV shows and late night comics didn't depict all fans as dateless wonders who live in their parent's basement I'm positive our common sense would win out over our "loyalties". As it is, I feel very defensive of all of the DCAU and my other fandoms and actually feel threatened by new interpretations. Not saying it makes sense, it's just the way it is as someone who constantly feels paranoid that the public at large thinks I'm a loser. Perhaps I shouldn't prove them right? Maybe but if the general public accepts an interpretation of a character I like and I do not I get cranky.

That's your right. But I hope that's because that's how you really feel, not because you think you HAVE to be resentful of it if you like JLU.No, not really. I mean JLU MAY be a factor but if that was truly the case I'd resent Teen Titans and Krypto the Superdog as well. As it is, The Batman, while it CAN be a fun show is a definate step back in the Batman mythos compared to the ambitiousness of BTAS. And as a fan I have a problem with that.



Now some completists feel the need to collect everything of a certain type. (Beanie Babies come to mind as a relatively recent craze.) I can respect that too, because people who do that are trying to establish control over a small sect of a chaotic world. (I bet you pog-collectors didn't know that.) But even this activity is not loyal. It's neurotic. (I say this without malice. All people are neurotic about something. It's comforting to have traditions, patterns, collections...) I collect Beanie Babies but I've never felt the need to have them all. If I see a Beanie Baby that's of an animal I don't have, I'll buy it. Doesn't mean I get anal about it (which considering my number one hobby is buying plushies perhaps I should be). Either way, I take the tags off too.



I feel the same way, Fone. I knew the Fantastic Four movie was going to butcher Dr. Doom, but I went to see it on opening day (well, that Saturday, actually). And you know what? I didn't like it, but I'd do it again. I'm the kind of fan who, if they see a new interpretation of the character, I have to check it out. I guess I could say I resent the Fantastic Four movie for not depicting the Dr. Doom I've grown up loving, but I saw the movie out of loyalty, and I'm expressing my distate of it by not seeing it again and not buying the DVD. I understand completely. Yeah, folks may point out I'm being anal and irrational. But I still have a right to feel that way.

[alexander knox]

I can have it both ways. I can watch something I don't like because it's based on something I do like, but I don't have to boycott it to show how much I don't like it. My "approval", if you will, comes in the form of how much I'd spend on it and the things I tell others about it.



Wow, everyone has brought up great points and opinions, but this so far is the one that i think best answers my question. without knowing it, its pretty much what i already subscribe to. very much a happy medium. If its free on tv, how am i "supporting" it by watching? I havnt spent a penny on "the batman" yet, (although the toy car looks pretty cool and i may justify it by getting it for my son;) ) Im not even planning on buying the DTV despite the rave reviews. I will watch it though thru netflix, and if it rocks my socks........ ya never know.

[ROBOTRON]

I am a fan of many toons, I like what entertains me.


I understand how some loyalist won't watch other incarnations of a certain character...I really try not to knock them for it. However, I watch anything new...to give it a chance...heck , you never know...It might be good. Even when I don't like something, I may tune in later in the season to see how it has developed...if I still don't like it, I tune it out again.

Theres a difference between "fan" and "fanatic"....I consider myself a "fan" (well...mostly. Even I can get carried away sometimes).:p

[James]

I think the most loyal fan is the objective one. Who looks at the shows on the basis of their intent rather than what they expect.

One may dislike "The Batman", but quite often, the dislike is - as FB pointed out - largely resentment, or underexposure or even not understanding it's market. Market is an important one. "The Batman" isn't trying to be BTAS, so why ruin it for yourself to compare it. The loyal Batman fan will watch a show to see how it interprets the "legend". If he strong dislikes the take, don't watch it. I think loyalty has to be paired with honesty than unbending devotion. The latter is not reflective of the show or the creators effort and is simply a waste of time.

The loyal fan will be objective, fair and honest about the show. Then whether they watch it is up to them.

[Steven C]

Lots of good points in this thread, but this has to be the smartest post so far:


I like BTAS? I watch it. I like BB? I watch it. I like TB? I watch it. I like JLU? I watch it. I don't care if some fans percieve one show as hurting another or if it's an "impure" concept. For example, they can't use Batman characters on JLU. So what? I'm not going to waste my energy and time getting upset about it, especially when there's not much I can do about it. And I'm not going to let that keep me from enjoying The Batman. This stuff is meant to entertain me and divert me from the problems in my life. No sense in getting worked up over some far away internal corporate dispute. If B.T. really cares about the Batembargo, let him fight it.

I like it how when The Batman 1st came out people hated it because it wasn't BTAS. I think people still hate The Batman because of this. Yet these same people either have only seen a few episodes and complain or watch week after week and still complain about it just because it isnt BTAS. If you dont like it, dont watch it. Simple.

[Zuric]

I like it how when The Batman 1st came out people hated it because it wasn't BTAS. I think people still hate The Batman because of this. Yet these same people either have only seen a few episodes and complain or watch week after week and still complain about it just because it isnt BTAS. If you dont like it, dont watch it. Simple.
see just as i said(or something similiar) oh so many posts ago

[Yojimbo]

I'm more loyal towards people behind the series. Bruce Timm and Paul Dini in the case of DCAU. So when I heard Paul Dini was involved with Lost, I gave it a shot and started watching it. Same reason for going to watch Serenity and Mirror Mask I suppose because I like the work of Joss Whedon, Neil Gaiman and Dave McKean.