DBZ Question

[Majin Vegeta]

In the Buu saga, Chin is the supreme kai, and he's supposed to rule over the Grand Kai. And the Grand Kai is so powerful that he taught Goku the Denkai-dame/spirit-bomb and some other stuff.

So technically, if the Grand Kai can TEACH Goku all this stuff then he's more powerful than him. And if the Supreme Kai is even more powerful than the Grand Kai, then he must be stronger than Goku too!

But the almighty Supreme Kai is a wealking! What happened???

Why are Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan more powerful than the Supreme Kai himself?

[Jowy Blight]

Grand Kai is so powerful that he taught Goku the Denkai-dame/spirit-bomb and some other stuff.

No, Kaio-sama(King Kai) taught Gokou that move.


So technically, if the Grand Kai can TEACH Goku all this stuff then he's more powerful than him.

No, Gokou is stronger. True, Kaio-sama showed him how to do it, but Kaio-sama couldn't do it himself. He said so himself.


Why are Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan more powerful than the Supreme Kai himself?

Kaioshin IS strong, it just that he was againest Majin Buu. His Psychic power is pretty much nothing to Majin Buu. As for Gokou, Bejita, and Gohan, Kaioshin didn't watch over that part of the universe as well as he should have. Gohan and Kaioshin are rather even in my opinion, Gohan got REALLY weak after Cell.

So I would say Kaioshin is as strong as SSJ1 Gohan now.

[kiddiesunshine]

sadly, gohan and kuririn are the mr. satans of the z fighters. kiaoshin is a a weak little "baka". but gohan does have bideru...meow. i hate her haircut.

[Naraht]

Bleh, I watch on CN, and dunno the Japaneese name,s but I'm following anyway...
Supreme Kai is above Grand kai, who in turn is above the 4 "normal" kais...one of whom taught Goku the attacks a while back.

When the Grand Kai saw Goku fight, he knew he was outclassed, and backed out of teaching him. Goku is the ubergod, and can destroy anything, cause ppl like him! =D

[Majin Vegeta]

So Goku's power just kinda slipped out of control, and it surpassed that of the Supreme Kai without him even noticing?

And in the end, when Goku beats Majin Buu with that spirit bomb, he wind because everyone in Earth is raising their hands, right? It's not his own power, but that of everyone on Earth that beats Majin Buu, then?

[Naraht]

Originally posted by VegetaInsane
So Goku's power just kinda slipped out of control, and it surpassed that of the Supreme Kai without him even noticing?

And in the end, when Goku beats Majin Buu with that spirit bomb, he wind because everyone in Earth is raising their hands, right? It's not his own power, but that of everyone on Earth that beats Majin Buu, then?

Umm...I haven't gotten that far yet...

But yes, the spirit bomb takes power from all the living things that give it up...it doesn't just pull power from the wielder...


As to Goku's power, The Supreme Kai says that he hadn't been paying much attention to Goku's part of the Galaxy...
And his power (and those of everyone else) did managae to shoot up astronomically in the course of about ten years...which in the galactic sense is no time @all

[HellCat]

Originally posted by VegetaInsane
So Goku's power just kinda slipped out of control, and it surpassed that of the Supreme Kai without him even noticing?

And in the end, when Goku beats Majin Buu with that spirit bomb, he wind because everyone in Earth is raising their hands, right? It's not his own power, but that of everyone on Earth that beats Majin Buu, then?

Being gods, the kais believe themself to be above mortals in all ways. Goku and the other Sayia-jin showed them that they were wrong about that.

From what I've heard, SSJ3 Goku was beating the crap out of Buu in his final form. But Buu kept regenerating and SSJ3 is alot of strain on the body. Goku needed the strength of everyone to power that Genki Dama (Spirit Bomb). Considering that, as far as Toriyama was concerned, this was the final battle, they needed a way to go out with a bang. Having Goku helped by everyone he'd met and helped in life is alot more interesting then Goku getting the energy to beat Buu himself from out of nowhere.

[Majin Vegeta]

Just one more question... :)

If the kais are gods, then why do they die?

And does the Supreme Kai die after Buu beats the crap out of him? Or does he just lie on the ground until he recovers?

(the dubbed American version of DBZ stops at when Vegeta sacrafices himself, so I don't know what happens)...

Does anyone know when the new episodes of the Buu saga are coming out?

oops that's three questions, sorry. :p

[HellCat]

Originally posted by VegetaInsane
Just one more question... :)

If the kais are gods, then why do they die?

And does the Supreme Kai die after Buu beats the crap out of him? Or does he just lie on the ground until he recovers?

(the dubbed American version of DBZ stops at when Vegeta sacrafices himself, so I don't know what happens)...

Does anyone know when the new episodes of the Buu saga are coming out?

oops that's three questions, sorry. :p

The Kai's are not gods in the same sense as THE God. They are just beings with a long life span and magic powers who live on a different plain

[Majin Vegeta]

And can you please tell me the answers to the other questions? :)

[Batmex]

Well to start with they are Sayans the most powerful warriors in the universe, then that have been strenghtening their power with unstopable training, specially Vageta and Goku, Gohan got weak because he didn't train anymore(blame the world's peace during those years).

[Majin Vegeta]

Does the Supreme Kai die? What happens?

[HellCat]

Originally posted by VegetaInsane
Does the Supreme Kai die? What happens?

Is the Supreme Kai Kaio-shin? If he is, then yes he dies. But he is quickly wished back and him and Kibit take Gohan to Kaio-shin's planet

[Majin Vegeta]

Thnx, that's all the questions I have for now... :)

[Shifty]

Ok i just thought of this now. Why does Trunks never have a tail?? Gohan does but trunks dosent. Im probly awnsering my own question but, Is it because vegeta evolved beyond the weakness of the tail?? When goku had gohan Goku didnt have a tail then. Its just strange. For some reason this thought just popped in my head.

[RogueMartian]

Goten never had a tail either from what i've seen. It was always my understanding that when saiyans are kids they have a tail that grows back if its cut off. Adults can have a tail, but if it gets cut off it does not grow back again. I don't know why trunks or goten never have a tail, maybe they did but their mothers (chi-chi and bulma) keep them cut off for reasons of safety.

[Dark Spider]

Most likely their parents had their tails cut off. They'll probably grow back, but it isn't important enough to give it air time. As a rule, if it isn't needed in the story, then why have it.

[Majin Vegeta]

lol, Imagine a mighty super saiyan warrior having to preiodiclly cut off his tail.

I wonder if the tail would turn yellow w/ the super saiyan transformation?

[Zorakfan]

It's like shaving. Only with a cheese grater.

[vegetaprinceofsayian]

possibly :confused: trunks did not have a tail and gohan did because of dominant and recessive traits, it would all have to do with dna which i won't get into, anyway, if vegeta's traits didn't mix well with bulma's then maybe that could be the cause for the absence of a tail, vice-versa for gohan and the presence of one. do a punnet square if you want but i don't think the writers care to go into why trunks can't have a tail or whatever :confused: too complicated. dosen't matter the son of vegeta is sayia-jin enough to not need a tail. :D

[Majin Vegeta]

yes, that's exactly what i had thought, that it had to be random, whether or not the half-saiyans had a tail. but it was too complicated to explain.

besides, akira toriyama kinda dropped the whole tail thing as the sagas progressed. notice that after a certain point, no one has tails of transforms into giant apes. this is picked up again in dragonball gt, but in this series toriyama wasnt playing an active role in the plot creation, etc.

PS- i started to draw a punnett square here but then i gave up. :D

[Edward_Bebop]

Goten never had a tail, because when he turns SS and Gohan says, "How'd you learn t do that" he says that Chi-Chi was teaching him how to fight. She hit him and he turned SS. Then Chi-Chi screams "Oh no, not another monster!" She would have known he was a saiyan if he had had a tail. Am I right?

[Majin Vegeta]

I thought she meant monster, as in another family member lost to the world of martial arts.

If Chi-Chi had her way she'd force all her men to stay at home and do chores. Her pet peeve is that Goku, Gohan, and Goten all fly off and fight instead of spending quality time, helping her with shores, and winning tournament prize money.

[atari_14]

that's what i thought too. Do you remeber back in the cell saga, on Gohan's Bday that Goku & Gohan broke almost every thing in the house and totally ruined every thing. I think that is kindda what is crossing Chichi's mind when she said that.
I think Goten and Trunks both had a tail. But since Chichi and Bulma know what happeneds to Sayins, with tails, during a full moon, i think they thought it best to keep them cut off. The tails could of been removed permently when they were still babies.

[AtomicDog]

I mean, he comes to Earth, kills thousands of people, and he beats Goku to within an inch of his life!

But yet Trunks is his and Bulma's son! So, what's the scoop?

[RogueMartian]

That's a good question, I haven't gotten to that episode yet in the subtitled version either. Its my understanding that Vegeta joins with Goku to fight Frieza and ends up living at Capsule Corp. Nature takes its course from there. But someone else probably knows better than me.

[ohmrbill]

You might want to change the title of the thread to remove spoilers. There ARE some people who haven't seen that far yet. ;)

But anyway, to answer your question: I don't know.

[Vin]

Originally posted by ohmrbill
You might want to change the title of the thread to remove spoilers. There ARE some people who haven't seen that far yet. ;)

But anyway, to answer your question: I don't know.

Good suggestion. I edited the title, just in case.

[AtomicDog]

Originally posted by ohmrbill
You might want to change the title of the thread to remove spoilers. There ARE some people who haven't seen that far yet. ;)



Sorry about that; I see that it has already been edited. I honestly didn't realize that I was spoiling the story. I'll be more careful next time.

[Anyone00]

Vegeta: "Bulma I tell you're making that son of ours spoiled and lazy, why when I was his age I had already committed DOZENS acts of genocide on PLANETARY scales, him no 'I can fusion with my best friend and beat on a little pink guy', bah!"

[Fallout Boy]

Well I guess it started after the Frieza Saga, when all the gang got wished back to Earth. Bulma made a crack about Vegeta being kinda cute. His reaction was priceless!

All I can think of in the later eps is - poor Yamucha! I really thought the love story of Yamucha/Bulma was one of the really appealing elements of Dragonball.

But then again Yamucha ain't no Saiya-jin, so I guess he gets tossed aside in love, as in fighting. One of the unfortunate changes that DBZ ushered in.

[Watagashi]

Yeah, she started falling in love with him after he got badly injured in that "gravity chamber" thingy. That's about as much as I know... :p

[Dark Spider]

I've read at some places that some dialouge from the original that suggests Vegeta's "growing respect" for Bulma, got replaced in the English dub.

In the original, during the part of DBZ where Freeza comes to Earth and everyone senses him, Bulma said that she wanted to go with everyone to scope him out. Vegeta made a mental note of her willingness to go into danger and said that she was fearless (or something to that effect).

The dub turned this line into one of his "bash Bulma" sessions. I think he said "Everytime you open your mouth, you prove you're an idiot".

Once again, I'm not sure, but I do believe that the English dub did change some of the dialouge that "foreshadows" Bulma and Vegeta's relationship.

[RogueMartian]

It wouldn't surprise me in the least, the dbz dub has been handled pretty badly.

[JetMaster5]

yeah, but everyone's used to the poor dubbing (myself included). *sigh*

oh well, at least the dubbing lightens up in the Buu saga.

[Opaque]

well obviously its because of when he had to live with bulmas family after the freeza saga.

[Majin Vegeta]

I remember that Vegeta once asked who "that beautiful woman" was, and Bulma was smitten by Vegeta's buff looks also.

Plus who could resist spending some quality time with a girl like Bulma after such an intense workout in the gravity chamber...

Both of them had mutual respect for each other. Both were monarchs in their own fields- Vegeta was the powerful prince of all Saiyans, and Bulma was the daughter of the richest and smartest man on Earth, and she was quite a genius herself.

Despite all of that, it's really funny imagining them quarreling...

"Vegeta, you never take care of baby Trunks!"

"Damn you, woman, who do you think I am, a babysitter? Is that all that I've been reduced to? I used to be the prince of all Saiyans, how is it that I can be controlled by a mere woman?!?"

[Meow]

Originally posted by Dark Spider
I've read at some places that some dialouge from the original that suggests Vegeta's "growing respect" for Bulma, got replaced in the English dub.

In the original, during the part of DBZ where Freeza comes to Earth and everyone senses him, Bulma said that she wanted to go with everyone to scope him out. Vegeta made a mental note of her willingness to go into danger and said that she was fearless (or something to that effect).

The dub turned this line into one of his "bash Bulma" sessions. I think he said "Everytime you open your mouth, you prove you're an idiot".

Once again, I'm not sure, but I do believe that the English dub did change some of the dialouge that "foreshadows" Bulma and Vegeta's relationship. Yea...he really said...um wait a second. *goes to her website full of quotes* Oh here it is.

Vegeta (thinking to himself): I thought she was just another lowly woman, but she's stronger than I thought.

They ruined that scene completely...

[Cyporiean]

Note from AFXanatos: Post edited due to language.

[SNS]

What's going to show at 4:30PM? Will it be the episode that shows at 6:30PM, a rerun, or a new episode?

[StrangerAtaru]

From how it sounds, they are showing a rerun of the previous day on at 4:30. I don't see why, but unfortunately this is not ours to control. (but I swear: as bad as this is, if this goes on even after the end of the new DBZ episodes, someone is going to get it)

[Animefangirl]

Are all the gaurdians of the planets namekians or is that just Earth and Namek. I wanted to ask my friends but none of them watch Anime. (I feel so alone :( ) If any one knows I'd like to know.

[StrangerAtaru]

The only planets that have Namekians as guardians are the ones that have Dragonballs. No Namek, no Dragonballs.

[Artemis]

There's a reason why Earth has a Namek guardian in the DB universe.


Too bad I forgot it. Something to do with Kami and....stuff....

[JetMaster5]

The "Guardians of the Planets" actually mean "God of that planet". Just like to clarify on that fact. Also, the reason why Earth has a Namekian God instead of a Human God is because Kami earned the right to it. He and Garlic Sr. were competing for the title and Kami won. Kami also won was because he was able to expell his "evil" side known only as Piccolo Daimoru, the father of Piccolo Jr. or Ma Jr.

[SNS]

In "Evil Kid Buu" why does Buu revert back to his original form? Why doesn't he revert back to the form we saw in "Buu vs. Buu"? Where did that gray form come from anyway? Is any of this explained on the last DVD?

[Conekiller]

because fat Buu was still combined with the kai he absorbed a millenia ago. when vegeta removed that tie, he reverted to his ORIGINAL form.

the ugly grey thing was the Evil from Buu expelled.

[Red]

I heard DBZ is going off the air at the end of April. When will it come back. Is there any info on that?

[Chuquita]

It's not going off the air, just moving to that SVES block on Saturday night :D It may come back to toonami later on after that though. They'll run through the new episodes twice before sending it over there.

[JTurner954]

Is there any chance of DBZ restarting any time soon?

[KingKoopa]

Originally posted by Chuquita
It's not going off the air, just moving to that SVES block on Saturday night :D It may come back to toonami later on after that though. They'll run through the new episodes twice before sending it over there. A recent change shows that this is not the case. Samurai Jack will air at 11:30.

[Chuquita]

*falls over* You mean it'll be gone COMPLETELY?! :eek: *twitch* I'm gonna miss my daily Veggie-dosage, even if it was only the dub one :(

At least I have my tapes & fansubs :D

[Antiyonder]

I've read a lot of early threads mentioning that Gohan was suppose the one to deal Buu the final blow, so was there a purpose for the introduction of Gotenks?

Not complaining, I'm just curious.

Only thing I can guess is that he would be absorbed into Buu like we saw, but would just make Buu slighty equal to Gohan (As opposed to being stronger that Gohan).

Any more detail on the original ending, like the aftermath of the fight?

[chris3116]

The original ending was to be Goku finally beats Frieza and venge the saiyans race then Goku dies and never returns.

The second ending that Toriyama wants was Gohan beats Cell and Goku never returns.

The third ending that Toriyama wanted when Majin Buu was created is Gohan to beat Majin Buu and Goku has a recurring role in this saga.

But the Japaneses want Goku wants to be the hero so the ending we know is the final ending.

I prefer to have the third ending that will be a real pass the torch from hero to another hero. DBZ was supposed to be Gohan's Series just like DB was Goku's Series.

[G1Ravage]

And DBGT is....Pan's show? -.-;;

[Antiyonder]

As far as the fans wanting Goku to be the one to kill Buu, I take it they had a serious case of hero worship right?

[JetMaster5]

You have to understand, DB series was around in Japan for ten years. TEN years. 10 years of watching a boy named Goku growing into a man. Ten years of watching Goku being the major force to defeat their enemies. The whole show centered around Goku's adventures. And then this little pip squeak named Gohan had to become the star? The fans definately didn't like that. So they wanted Goku to be the hero. I think that's why DBGT focused so much on Goku being the strongest.

Although I have to admit, I like the current ending much much more. Vegito's debut, the world's strongest candy, journey inside Buu's body, and Human Spirit Bomb is a hell lot better than Gohan beats Buu, The End.

[Fresh V]

DBGT would of been much better if it weren't for the fans. Oh wait, if it weren't for the fans, there wouldn't even be a GT.

[NickWhiz1]

DBGT would of been much better if it weren't for the fans. Oh wait, if it weren't for the fans, there wouldn't even be a GT.
And we'd be watching both Kenshin and SEED on Toonami right now.

Stupid GT. *kicks*

[Demonic Raven]

And we'd be watching both Kenshin and SEED on Toonami right now.

Stupid GT. *kicks* 1.5 hours of straight good anime...and then if the ASA lead in had still existed....

*sheds a solemn tear*

[Antiyonder]

You have to understand, DB series was around in Japan for ten years. TEN years. 10 years of watching a boy named Goku growing into a man. Ten years of watching Goku being the major force to defeat their enemies. The whole show centered around Goku's adventures. And then this little pip squeak named Gohan had to become the star? The fans definately didn't like that. So they wanted Goku to be the hero.
But Gohan's the son of Goku. Shouldn't that count for something?

[Fresh V]

But Gohan's the son of Goku. Shouldn't that count for something?
Looks like it didn't.

[RAINMAN]

Gohan would made a awful lead char. It don`t matther who`s son he is. And Z was not ment to be his series either and althougth A.T. did want to end it end at freeza he was nor gonna killed off goku. I don`t know were people get that idea from?

[SuperSaiyaMan]

Gohan would made a awful lead char. It don`t matther who`s son he is. And Z was not ment to be his series either and althougth A.T. did want to end it end at freeza he was nor gonna killed off goku. I don`t know were people get that idea from? Z was meant to be Gohan's series. Akira Toryiama said it himself. After Freeza and Goku died on Namek, Gohan was suppose to take over as Earth's protector. Goku, who had already died once, was never suppose to come back.

and if you don't know who Akira Toryiama is, he is the creator of the Dragonball Universe, and he hates Dragonball GT and is retired now.

[MJC]

The original ending was to be Goku finally beats Frieza and venge the saiyans race then Goku dies and never returns.

The second ending that Toriyama wants was Gohan beats Cell and Goku never returns.

The third ending that Toriyama wanted when Majin Buu was created is Gohan to beat Majin Buu and Goku has a recurring role in this saga.

But the Japaneses want Goku wants to be the hero so the ending we know is the final ending.

I prefer to have the third ending that will be a real pass the torch from hero to another hero. DBZ was supposed to be Gohan's Series just like DB was Goku's Series.

All three of those are better than the way the series actually ended. Stupid Japanese. :mad:

[Punisher]

The second ending was what should have happened. The Cell Saga was PERFECT for ending DBZ.

[Chuquita]

I would've ended it at the "He's Always Late" ep where Bulma throws the party. I'm not very fond of Goku leaving with Uubu to go train him. If he absolutely had to train him, why not invite Uubu to live at the Son home with him? Or maybe just go out to Uubu's home when giving him lessons instead of living there. :(

I like the whole Goku VS Majin Veggie battle, the fusions, Goku and Veggie's adventure inside Buu, and their battle against Kid Buu way too much to have the series end with Cell. :D Though I do admit Cell did have a powerful ending.

[Rebecca*]

For me the second ending would have been perfect. It had Goku handing over his mantle to his son, who was going to be a worthy successor, it had Goku's death being poigniant and not in vein, yet gave closure to his adventure. Plus, unlike the first ending, Mirai Trunks had been introduced whilst Videl hadn't and Gohan didn't go through his almost complete U-turn. Despite The Majin Vegeta battle, DBZ post Cell didn't appeal to me as much.

[RAINMAN]

Z was meant to be Gohan's series. Akira Toryiama said it himself. After Freeza and Goku died on Namek, Gohan was suppose to take over as Earth's protector. Goku, who had already died once, was never suppose to come back.

and if you don't know who Akira Toryiama is, he is the creator of the Dragonball Universe, and he hates Dragonball GT and is retired now.


And to think all this time I ben useing A.T. and did not know what it stood for.:yawn: I still don`t recall him saying before the buu sega that he was gonna turn the series over to gohan, nor saying z was gohan series sesne there was no Z manga in japan, nor goku dieing in the freeza sega for good.

[RAINMAN]

I would've ended it at the "He's Always Late" ep where Bulma throws the party.


That was a filler.

[Chuquita]

I know its filler. :D I was talking about the anime.
Unless you're talking solely about the manga, in that case I'd end the manga directly after Goku defeats Buu and everyone goes back to Earth.

[Meow]

Personally, I think that Goku avenging his race and never coming back would have been a much more powerful ending.

The Cell saga seemed like a good idea, but for some reason I just found it boring. I guess I just didn't like how much stronger everyone became. (over such a short period) Toriyama had to keep coming up with stronger villains, and it really wound up cheapening the Super Saiyan transformation. I feel very strongly that Freiza should have been the "ultimate villain".

[Kuja's Light]

The thing with Gohan is, he wouldn't of made a good big hero. He cracked when his father died because of Cell exploding. Yes, I know he was a child then and all, but come on....By the time he was grown up, he gave up on fighting entirely and just wanted to be a scholar. Vegeta would of been the better choice(if he had learned his lesson at least).

[BuuSagaFan]

I've read a lot of early threads mentioning that Gohan was suppose the one to deal Buu the final blow, so was there a purpose for the introduction of Gotenks?

Not complaining, I'm just curious.

Only thing I can guess is that he would be absorbed into Buu like we saw, but would just make Buu slighty equal to Gohan (As opposed to being stronger that Gohan).

Any more detail on the original ending, like the aftermath of the fight?Emporer Pilaf Saga
End Of DB
Freeza Saga
Cell Saga
Gohan vs. Buu
Vegito vs. Buu

^ Theres where it was gonna end.

[CyberCubed]

It was never suppost to end after Dragonball, Toriyama had the Saiyan/Frieza saga already planned after that.

He did however consider ending Dragonball after the Pilaf saga. That would have been amusing.

[RAINMAN]

I know its filler. :D I was talking about the anime.
Unless you're talking solely about the manga, in that case I'd end the manga directly after Goku defeats Buu and everyone goes back to Earth.

You can`t end a anime base off a manga series on a filler.

[Alph]

:sweat:
You can`t end a anime base off a manga series on a filler.
Didn't they do that with Dragonball?

[RAINMAN]

:sweat:
Didn't they do that with Dragonball?

That is true. But DB in a way truly did not end. Toei broke the series up in 2 for reasones I don`t know.

[Duke]

That is true. But DB in a way truly did not end. Toei broke the series up in 2 for reasones I don`t know.
Marketing. A similar reason CN wanted to change the name of Justice League and when Fox wanted to change the name of B:TAS. Fresher name and it indicates a new style.