Does Anyone Remember A Year Ago...

[I-Am That Is]

Does anybody remember a year a go when so many of us were bemoaning the horribleness of JLU compared to JL and about how it was the absolute dregs of the DCAU?

[Style]

Does anybody remember a year a go when so many of us were bemoaning the horribleness of JLU compared to JL and about how it was the absolute dregs of the DCAU? Yeah. And if it weren't for the drastic improvement of the first two episodes of the current season, I'd still feel that way.

[melibell21]

Yeah. And if it weren't for the drastic improvement of the first two episodes of the current season, I'd still feel that way.
seriously? u didn't like last season? aww man

well, i am excited about this new season. it's def up with justice league if not better. i can't get overexcited tho, it was only two episodes and i don't want to be disappointed because of high expectations.

[Fone Bone]

Yeah. And if it weren't for the drastic improvement of the first two episodes of the current season, I'd still feel that way.Style, Style, Style. That just ain't nice. Absolute dregs? Dang.:ack:

I remember that but I was under the impression that the first season was a groundwork kind of deal so it doesn't bother me so much. I've said it before, but even people who don't generally like JLU have to admit it HAS produced it's share of fine episodes. I personally find it to be a stronger show than Batman Beyond and Justice League. The New Batman Adventures too. Aw, I can't lie. It's my favorite.:p

[Master Moron]

The first season on Justice League was awful because Flash wasn't in it.

[Style]

Yeah, I remember. I was busy arguing against the vast majority saying that JLU was superior to JL. Now, Style is trying to argue against the majority by saying JLU sucks. I'm glad to have sort of passed on the torch. Don't go righteously indignant on me, GMahler. It's a complete misstatement to say the "Vast Majority" of people here didn't like JLU a year ago. More people still liked it than didn't. Sure, there were more who didn't then, but don't go misremembering things here.

And the only reason I think the show has improved is because it's out from under the tyranny of the Cadmus arc, which was not only badly written, but sewed up many episodes to itself that could have been better spent on other, better plots.

Looking back at Season 4, it wasn't half so well written as so many people think it is. It had many, many mediocre episodes to it.

[DisneyBoy]

Hmmm...I can remember a year ago, and since then my feelings about this series have roller-coastered around and about...

...Do I like seeing new characters? In some cases, yes. It's still a 50/50 deal as to whether or not the new faces on screen are going to become anything more than mere wallpaper, and that kinda bugs me still. Especially since I always felt that not every part of the mainstream DCU deserved a place in the "Best of the best/Less is more" DCAU.

...Do I like the stories? Not completely. I feel like very few of JLU's episodes have felt like self-contained, fully developped tales, which is odd to hear myself complaining about, since I've always been one for continuity. The Cadmus arc made me eat my words. There was plenty of potential there, but not one complete story, or even fuctionning chapters of one. It went it's own way, desperate to impress, and falling quite short. And seeing as how most of JLU's episodes were leading up to that, I found myself quite disappointed. Like I said, however, the most of the self-contained stories ("For the Man Who Has Everything", "This Little Piggy") and even some of the Cadmus-driven ones ("Doomsday Sanction") felt like they were thematically in touch with themselves, are really absorbed me. But other episodes just felt like they were promising more than they were delivering ("Fearful Symmetry", "The Once and Future Thing", "The Balance", "Hunter's Moon", "Question Authority" to "Divided We Fall").

...Am I satisfied with how the original cast has been treated? Most certainly yes. Superman has become someone I don't like, but I like that change in the status quo, provided it's followed up on. Wonder Woman has her lasso, her marquee villains and an interesting flirtation going on. J'onn has the job best suited to him, and although I am expecting to see some development in his quest to make Earth his new home, I've been content to watch him keep everyone organized thus far. Flash had the best moment in the Cadmus arc, easily. Batman's not quite as appealing to me, given my distaste for "Epilogue" and his new, almost two-dimensional protrayal (as the know-it-all jerk). John's had the short hand so far, but that's to be expected given all his screentime in JL. I was interested in his relationship with Vixen, until he acted blatantly rude and dismissive towards her in "Hunter's Moon", so I guess he's down a notch. Finally, Shayera has floundered in ambiguity somewhat after Starcrossed, which is unfortunate, but likely to be corrected in this upcoming season...

...which I have yet to see any episodes from, so please, if you're going to respond to anything I just wrote, don't give away any details from "We Are Legion" or "Shadow of the Hawk". Thank ya ;)

I guess, on the whole, I'm 50/50 about Justice League Unlimited. Maybe the new season will win me over.

[CyberCubed]

Even though JLU Season 1 was a little rough around the edges, it was still fun to watch. Unlike JL season 1, which was just god awful and almost unbearable to sit through.

Funny how both the second seasons of JL and JLU helped salvage the crap in the first seasons of both shows respectively.

Here's hoping JLU Season 3 continues to be good.

[sdp]

I remember Teen Titans topics everywhere, they certainly have taken a big drop.

[Casey Mack]

I remeber a year ago...i was in my prime. JLU was in season 1, and i was the master of my domain. It was different back then...i was different...back then we had a cause to fight for dammit. But look at todays JLU generation..they have no great alien invasion....No great love story...some of them have lost hope for another season. I remeber back then in season 1..we were some rightious fans back then. Back then we were all about good action stories..now todays generation of fans want every episode to have some deep meaning and all that crap.

[Ian]

Really? Damn--what boat have I been all these years? I just wanted funky robot animals...

[Silly McGooses]

I still don't think JLU is all that great...it's too crowded and sci-fi ish, but not a good sci-fi, tacky sci-fi, IMO. It's an enjoyable show to me, nothing else. Can't believe I'm already all nostalgic bout JL.


I remeber a year ago...i was in my prime. JLU was in season 1, and i was the master of my domain. It was different back then...i was different...back then we had a cause to fight for dammit. But look at todays JLU generation..they have no great alien invasion....No great love story...some of them have lost hope for another season. I remeber back then in season 1..we were some rightious fans back then. Back then we were all about good action stories..now todays generation of fans want every episode to have some deep meaning and all that crap.I sincerely hope you're kidding. I can't even begin to imagine why you would want to watch nonstop senseless action for a whole show. but, to each their own, but if that's what you like there's a whole lotta stuff like that out there...The main DCAU B:TAS-JLU isn't about it though. Stuff like Teen Titans and The Batman mostly is, I think.

[paulie]

I'm not moaning about JLU anymore because all my complaints are the same as always :p (I actually think JLU season 1 was better than S2, mostly because like Style, I thought Cadmus was "eh"). Anway, it's obvious that JLU is just not my cup of tea...and "I am Legion" was pretty bad, a big step back, so I'm not too keen on this season either so far. Not much reason to keep repeating the same critiques.

But there should be some good episodes mixed in, so I'm looking forward to those.

[90'sCartoonMan]

Right when JLU started, I wasn't sure. I liked having Aquaman, Green Arrow, and Dr. Fate come on as permanent members, but I didn't like how the early episodes shoved people like Flash aside. "For The Man Who Has Everything" proved to me that the show still knew how to focus on main characters, and I'm happy with the results. They can switch it up from a story about a lesser focused-on hero ("The Cat and the Canary") or do something with the core team ("Kid Stuff").

The Cadmus arc is only slightly disappointing because I go back and watch something like "Ultimatum" and go "Hey, WAIT A MINUTE!" Oh, that and it turned out we got a Batboy instead of a Superboy.

But still, it's always better to have low expectations/complaints and then be pleasantly surprised than the othr way around.

[BigFatHairyDeal]

Hi guys,

I don't know if I was even posting here yet when the first season of JLU started, but I felt that the show got off to a really rocky start. I know I would've complained, too, because the second season of JL was such an improvement over the first, and JLU seemed quirky and lacking. As we all know, though, the show quickly turned the corner once "Fearful Symmetry" aired, and most of the episodes since have been rather solid.

My big point is that while it seems ironic now that one year ago people were railing JLU, at that given time, the criticism seemed dead on for what we were seeing. If I had to name a bottom six or seven episodes for JLU, I'd place "Initiation," "Kid's Stuff," "Hawk and Dove," and "This Little Piggy" somewhere on that list.

[Grimlock]

Don't go righteously indignant on me, GMahler. It's a complete misstatement to say the "Vast Majority" of people here didn't like JLU a year ago. More people still liked it than didn't. Sure, there were more who didn't then, but don't go misremembering things here.

And the only reason I think the show has improved is because it's out from under the tyranny of the Cadmus arc, which was not only badly written, but sewed up many episodes to itself that could have been better spent on other, better plots.

Looking back at Season 4, it wasn't half so well written as so many people think it is. It had many, many mediocre episodes to it.
But that's all your opinion.

Someone might feel JLU had many, many fanastic episodes. And they wouldn't be any more right or wrong than you.

[Grimlock]

I remeber a year ago...i was in my prime. JLU was in season 1, and i was the master of my domain.
Maybe you should enter a contest.

[Style]

But that's all your opinion.

Someone might feel JLU had many, many fanastic episodes. And they wouldn't be any more right or wrong than you. Why do so many people rush to remind me and others that my opinion is just an opinion? Is there some fear that my opinions might be mistaken for fact? That it might confuse the kiddies?

[I-Am That Is]

Why do so many people rush to remind me and others that my opinion is just an opinion? Is there some fear that my opinions might be mistaken for fact? That it might confuse the kiddies?I guess it's because of your bizzare power over bt and Dwayne McDuffie.

[DisneyBoy]

*was completely unaware Style had power over them*

Here's a quote that reminds me just how varied people's opinions are on JLU as a series:

If I had to name a bottom six or seven episodes for JLU, I'd place "Initiation," "Kid's Stuff," "Hawk and Dove," and "This Little Piggy" somewhere on that list.

Oddly enough, I really really liked "Kid's Stuff" and "Initiation". They were solid, stand-alone episodes that tied up much of what was left undone when JL ended, while "This Little Piggy" was just plain fun, clever and entertaining.

I never really thought of it this way before, but maybe JLU is to JL was BB was to B:TAS/TNBA, or even what TNBA was to B:TAS. I think that Justice League, in the end, was pretty satisfying for most viewers, but seeing JLU come up and offer something different only further divided people's opinions, which makes it more difficult to get a clear view on just how successful the show has been as of late.

I do know, however, that having now seen the birth of JL and JLU as they happened (an experienced which I missed with every other DCAU series), I now feel less enthused about the coming season. Knowing that things are coming ever closer to the inevitable end, and also being more familiar with what causes trouble for the creative team, I'm putting less faith in the hope that the next batch of episodes will be entirely magnificent. I really got my hopes up with the Cadmus arc, and because it didn't work for me, I've had to readjust my picture of the DCAU. I used to think, back in the B:TAS days, that these people behind the show could do no wrong. That whatever shows they made would exclude all the silly, repetitive, restraining and superfluous aspects of the mainstream DCU. That's not the case.

Anyhoo, maybe once I get to see some new episodes, I'll change my tune and get all excited again.

Back then we were all about good action stories..now todays generation of fans want every episode to have some deep meaning and all that crap.

I'm not a "new" fan by any means, so I think you're assumption is more than a little off. I'm all for the big brawl episodes when they're done with style and substance ("Doomsday Sanction", "Double Date" and "Task Force X" immediately come to mind), but if action comes at the cost of a story having an emotional core to it, or being one good story rather than some small piece of a bigger, convoluted story, then I'd rather not see the action at all. Fighting is fighting. It's only entertaining when they're something emotional at stake. If flying fists and bright costumes are your thing, watch the WWF. From the Justice League, I expect more, you know?

[thanos28542]

I may be in the minority here but I've enjoyed just about every single episode of both JL & JLU because after so many yrs of thinking that "Superfriends" was going to be the closest I'd ever get to see the JL animated on TV along came the news back in 2000 that B.T & co were coming out with a "JLTAS" & I just remember yelling "YESSSSSS'! Finally I was gonna see all my favorite DC heroes fighting alongside each other & sometimes against each other & it wasn't gonna be the cheesy /corny storylines that "Superfriends" had. Then JLU replaced JL & I found out that they were expanding the roster & adding never before animated DC heroes/villians & I just thought "this is getting better & better. I'm seeing the Red Tornado. Shining Knight, Question, Wildcat, BC, Booster Gold & finally Hawkman, it's awesome! The storyline/plots are important but too many of you are forgetting this is 1st & foremost a " cartoon" & are taking it too seriously. I personaly just get a kick out of seeing all these DC characters finally animated & on my Favorite superhero team of all time. There are so many more stories to tell about all these characters on the roster that I hope we see many more seasons of JL for yrs to come. If not, then a "Tales of the DCU TAS"!

[I-Am That Is]

*was completely unaware Style had power over them*Really?

There was a whole thread on Style's power over Timm&Co: http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=150021

[DerekPowers]

Ofcourse. Season one was quite iffy, and i remember posting in a talkback, for i think "Ultimatum", that we need to call a spade a spade and admit that JLU really was subpar, especially by DCAU standards.

BUT then they started improving the show. The biggest difference made was the improvement in the pacing of the show and also the characterizations. It started with episodes like "Wake the Dead" and "Dark Heart", imo, and i think it officially raised the bar with "The Once and Future Thing, part 2" (i'd say that episode was JLU's "Twilight"). And imo, TOAFT part 2 is still the best episode of JLU to date.

Then season 2 was amazing on every level. I particularly liked all the episodes prior to the finale, with the mix between smaller stories, Cadmus build up stories, and some nice change of pace stories like "Task Force X".

And i hate to say it, but i think the bar was lowered alittle with the cadmus 4-part finale. I know i'm in the minority here, but i didnt think it lived up to the set-up and build-up, and quite frankly, the sophistication and intellegence of the season two up untill the episode "Flashpoint". Season 2 was SO good up untill "Flashpoint", imo, that i was almost ready to say i think JLU is the best DCAU show, period. But alas, the stakes were lowered in those last 3 episodes of the Cadmus arc, and i have to say, it lowers my opinion of the show A LOT. They were good, but they didnt blow my socks off the way most of the seaon did and the way the hype and build up did. So, imo, BTAS still is the best.

But even so, its definately proven itself to be quite an amazing show. And i know there is only great things in store this season, and hopefully, next season. peace.

[Grimlock]

Why do so many people rush to remind me and others that my opinion is just an opinion? Is there some fear that my opinions might be mistaken for fact? That it might confuse the kiddies?
The common sense answer is that the way you stated your opinion made it sound like you were stating facts.

I was simply pointing out that what you posted was not indeed facts, but meer opinion.

[Crimson]

The common sense answer is that the way you stated your opinion made it sound like you were stating facts.There is no way that "It had many, many mediocre episodes to it" could ever be mistaken as a statement of fact.

"The sky is blue" is a fact. "Superman is a Kryptonian" is a fact. "The episode is mediocre" is automatically an opinion, regardless of how it is stated. To have to preface every single opinion with "In my opinion ..." is tedious, and should be unnecessary.

This has long been a petpeeve of mine. There was a regular poster a while back (who is either no longer present, or changed his screen name) who would respond to every even vaguely negative comment on JUSTICE LEAGUE with "Well, that's just your opinion." It took every shred of self-control I had not to fire back "Well, duh. Who else's opinion would it be, since I'm the one who wrote it?"



Does anybody remember a year a go when so many of us were bemoaning the horribleness of JLU compared to JL and about how it was the absolute dregs of the DCAU?I don't recall this. I was one of those bemoaning the relative horribleness of JLU compared to JL, and I was very much in the minority even at the time.

[b.t.]

There is no way that "It had many, many mediocre episodes to it" could ever be mistaken as a statement of fact.

"The sky is blue" is a fact. "Superman is a Kryptonian" is a fact. "The episode is mediocre" is automatically an opinion, regardless of how it is stated. To have to preface every single opinion with "In my opinion ..." is tedious, and should be unnecessary.

well, yes, obviously....but certain declarative phrases ARE bound to provoke a knee-jerk "that's YOUR opinion" response....in fact, that may well be what style had in mind, he's a notorious hurler of firecrackers into anthills.....

but moreso than the "mediocre episodes" quote, the sentence "season four wasn't half so well-written as so many people think it is" is not only phrased in a way that suggests style's opinion IS fact, it's also a bit condescending to anyone who disagrees....i.e., anyone who "thinks" season four was well written is WRONG....it's easy to see why dissenting posters might get their feathers ruffled....

...not ME, of course!...i KNOW season four was brilliant:D....

[Killtacular]

well, yes, obviously....but certain declarative phrases ARE bound to provoke a knee-jerk "that's YOUR opinion" response....in fact, that may well be what style had in mind, he's a notorious hurler of firecrackers into anthills.....

but moreso than the "mediocre episodes" quote, the sentence "season four wasn't half so well-written as so many people think it is" is not only phrased in a way that suggests style's opinion IS fact, it's also a bit condescending to anyone who disagrees....i.e., anyone who "thinks" season four was well written is WRONG....it's easy to see why dissenting posters might get their feathers ruffled....

...not ME, of course!...i KNOW season four was brilliant:D....
Hey, I loved season four, so that says.... I don't know. Something, I guess. Maybe Style just wanted to take my place as forum cynic since I was able to step down.

[Rabi~en~Rose]

it looks like I'm the opposite of most people so far I loved Cadmus and most any episode involving them but think the rest of JLU pretty much stinks including what we've seen of season 5 so far :( meanwhile I am loving the JL friday reruns :)

[Grimlock]

well, yes, obviously....but certain declarative phrases ARE bound to provoke a knee-jerk "that's YOUR opinion" response....in fact, that may well be what style had in mind, he's a notorious hurler of firecrackers into anthills.....

but moreso than the "mediocre episodes" quote, the sentence "season four wasn't half so well-written as so many people think it is" is not only phrased in a way that suggests style's opinion IS fact, it's also a bit condescending to anyone who disagrees....i.e., anyone who "thinks" season four was well written is WRONG....it's easy to see why dissenting posters might get their feathers ruffled....

...not ME, of course!...i KNOW season four was brilliant:D....
Well, it looks like b.t. agrees with me, so i'm not sure i need to argue any more points on this subject.

[b.t.]

Hey, I loved season four, so that says.... I don't know. Something, I guess. Maybe Style just wanted to take my place as forum cynic since I was able to step down.

i'm actually kinda relieved you disliked "i am legion" so intensely....you liking JLU just seemed WRONG somehow....now i can stop looking over my shoulder for the other three horsemen....

[batmanbeyond13]

To bt and everyone on this thread, let's not worry about all this. Atleast, we got another season of our favorite D C heroes. I am thankful for that with all the D C events like Infinite Crisis rearing its head next month and the Alex Ross Justice book. Now is the perfect time to see the J L U take on the Legion Of Doom and the Teen Titans take on a bunch of villains. We're getting to see good D C T V. Not to mention that we got The Batman season 3 and Smallville season 5. What else do you D C fans want. It is a great time to be a D C fan. And for the record, my favorite show is bt and company's J L U followed strongly by Smallville. :D

[Grimlock]

What else do you D C fans want.
Well i, for one, would like a few more seasons of JLU

[Style]

Alright, I'm willing to back down somewhat on what I said on JLU. Gmahler was right, it was more of a disagreement with the direction of Season four, (but I did like some of the episodes.)

The reasons I came down so hard initially are complicated and personal, so I know you all don't care about hearing them. I know I wouldn't.


well, yes, obviously....but certain declarative phrases ARE bound to provoke a knee-jerk "that's YOUR opinion" response....in fact, that may well be what style had in mind, he's a notorious hurler of firecrackers into anthills.....

but moreso than the "mediocre episodes" quote, the sentence "season four wasn't half so well-written as so many people think it is" is not only phrased in a way that suggests style's opinion IS fact, it's also a bit condescending to anyone who disagrees....i.e., anyone who "thinks" season four was well written is WRONG....it's easy to see why dissenting posters might get their feathers ruffled.... But I like JLU and your shows! Really! I know that's contrary to a lot of what I say, (On the other hand, it's not contrary to a lot of what I say too. Only one of the four season 5 episodes I thought was less than par. I liked the others!

Fine. I'm going to solve this problem. I'm putting a disclaimer in my sig.

[Silly McGooses]

aw, poooor misunderstood Style. I actually agree about the last part of season 4...I really liked the setup, but I almost found the counclusion (especially the Brainthor episode) anticlimactic and I thought there was too much action. It's hard to live up a setup that great, I'm sure. Loved Epilogue, though...that was one crazy-packed episode.
I think the show is still one of the top ten best shows on TV, and even if somehow the writers started churning out meaningless crap, I'd still watch it somehow...cuz the show is almost comfort food TV to me (much like the simpsons).

[DisneyBoy]

...cuz the show is almost comfort food TV to me (much like the simpsons).

And therein lies the rub. Sure, I love this show because it's got b.t. and his crew behind it, it works in continuity with the shows that came before, and it gives me loads of DC-related eye candy. But I worry, more than anything, that the stories aren't nearly as tight as they were in the previous shows. That the focus here is entirely different without needing to be.

I think I sometimes voice my negative critiques as loudly as I do, because I don't want anyone, fans or writers alike, to be happy settling for the fact that the show exists.

[Silly McGooses]

hey, I'm not saying I'd settle for it, I'm just saying I'd watch it. I wouldn't worry about the shows getting less tight overall...I can see your concern over big arcs like Cadmus, but then they brought it back with Epilogue which, like it or not, was probably the most packed 22 minutes ever in the DCAU.

[DerekPowers]

...cuz the show is almost comfort food TV to me (much like the simpsons).

And therein lies the rub. Sure, I love this show because it's got b.t. and his crew behind it, it works in continuity with the shows that came before, and it gives me loads of DC-related eye candy. But I worry, more than anything, that the stories aren't nearly as tight as they were in the previous shows. That the focus here is entirely different without needing to be.

I think I sometimes voice my negative critiques as loudly as I do, because I don't want anyone, fans or writers alike, to be happy settling for the fact that the show exists.
Okay, DisneyBoy, can you be more specific about your dislikes of the show? Particularly your dislike for the Cadmus arc, which clearly satisfied most.

And, regardless of if JLU isnt quite your cup of tea, or even if you were let down by the Cadmus finale (I loved the build up, but the finale really seemed like a cop-out), you still have to admit its a MUCH better show than it was, compared to most of season one. Its come a long way as a show, and now, even though i have issues with the Cadmus arc and even though that lowered my overall opinion of jlu, I still think its pretty good regardless.

and it may not ever top BTAS (what could?), or even STAS or BB, but it's still the best show on television, imo, and its most definately the best cartoon right now, but i guess thats also just one mans' opinion. peace.

[Dens Maris]

I've never whined or cried about JLU because it's always been consistently entertaining and thought-provoking. To be fair, I'm not some milquetoast who finds an enthralling adventure in every tale I come across. In fact, I would daresay that before JLU, I had been starved of good stories. Do you have any idea how many glorified Aesop's Fables there are out there? Plots woven so moronically around biased viewpoints or morals-of-the-month, lifeless characters that couldn't squeeze catharsis out of a bleeding heart, dilemma brought about only by the stupidity of both protagonist and antagonist. Sweeping contempt of the entire dramatis personae, a total blindness to the fact that story and character must live, must breathe. Morals that sound more like they came out of fortune cookies, romances that have all the passion of a frozen dinner. So I'll confess, while many nay-sayers could certainly apply all of that to JLU and be subjectively correct, it was different for me. JLU quenched a drought that was turning me more and more cynical by the day. Where some of the so-called "classics" of literature, cinema, and even gamedom failed, JLU succeeded. It's not the only thing that's done that for me, which would be tragic if it were, but it's one of the most memorable and exciting ones to do it so recently.

JLU made me care about characters I had grown to deride and lambast, Superman most noteably. It further endeared characters that had been in my heart for so long, like Batman. And marvelously, wonderfully, it made me care about characters I'd never heard of in my life. Okay, so it's understandable about characters who aren't so intense in our cultural lexicon, like Hawkgirl and Gorilla Grodd, but would you believe I had never known anything about the Flash other than his super-speed, before I tuned in for Justice League? Nothing about Martian Manhunter, Green Lantern...even Wonder Woman. Not a thing! And throughout all its seasons, this show has made me care about who they are, where they came from, where they're going, the "how" in both cases, and why they do the things they do. A weaker story could not have done that for me.

I'll also say that JLU at its worst beats many, far more overrated stories at their best. I hesitate to sound so...mean, because I like to think I'm open-minded when it comes to all walk of storytelling. I believe there's at least one thing you can take from any given story. Even "Hawk and Dove" could at least teach me how NOT to craft a plot. :anime: Many people decry the Cadmus arc as a dropped ball; I think it's a 3-pointer from halfway across the court, one of the most riveting and thoughtful stories I've ever seen told in the superhero genre- a proper challenge made to people with the knowledge that all the good they do is supplied by power that could cause so much destruction in the wrong hands, that destruction is infinitely more easier to cause with that much power than preservation and creation. Have similar stories been told? Yes, but I tire of people who always have to stand up and whine "But _x story_ did that first!" Throughout our lives we encounter similar situations and think similar thoughts, and as they say, "of course it's the same old story; truth usually IS the same old story." And I like that JLU's willing to show us old and new truths while weaving it well enough into the storyline that its characters can sense it realistically, too.

It's also got great animation. Might sound trivial after all this harping on plot and characters, but it's true. There are some disappointing misses and there's that hauntingly bad CG they tend to and/or have to use, but the direction comes through in so many cases that such episodes are almost negatable. It's often time-economic and, when it wants to impress you with a superhero battle, consistently tries to one-up itself. Always trying to improve, always aware of the genre it plays in. Having grown up on cartoons that didn't always take initiative in action and motion when they could, JLU was a welcome exception (Teen Titans too, for that matter).

But again, I emphasize how charming and engaging the story is. I'm glad I've been able to care about these characters, how this show has made so many of them timeless to me with its thoughtful approach to each one of them, its witty relaxants and its tight suspense, and its ability to go from 0 to 100 at lightspeed when a fight breaks out. Action can tell a story as much as dialogue, and JLU seldom disappoints me there.

Is the show still doing that for me today? Absolutely. Heroes and villains are still fun to root for and oppose, not always in that order, and each plot can still provide at least minimal entertainment for me, but consistently more and even maximum. I hope Cartoon Network picks this baby up for another season. Heck, I'd love for it to last long enough for my kids to be able to watch it. Let that be the Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman they know the ones I've grown to care about so much. At the very least I'd like the DVD set to show them someday. :)

So, yeah, this show's more than satisfied me right from the start. You could argue that perhaps I'm not critical enough. Maybe, but then, I've sighed away the names of so many classical writers that I actually think I'm too critical. You know how many times I've rolled my eyes when someone calls Kurt Vonnegut the greatest writer of the twentieth century? It don't get much more critical than that. :sweat: All told, I know this- I'm a big-time fan of Justice League Unlimited, and I welcome any story it wants to tell to the table, with the knowledge that I almost constantly have something to look forward to.

[Revelator]

A year ago I was bemoaning the horribleness of people who moaned about the horribleness of JLU compared to JL and about how it was the absolute dregs of the DCAU. I still think they're full of fertilizer.

JLU season one struck me as an excellent experiment in an Adventures in the DCAU anthology format, and while JLU season two was more ambitious, I don't consider it a great jump up or "drastic improvement" in the overall quality, which was already high, especially when compared to the flab and blandness that bedeviled JL season one and large chunks of season two. (How people can knock something like 'Ultimatum'--a better episode than almost every entry in JL season one, remains beyond me.)

While I liked many things about the Cadmus arc, especially its ambition (which sometimes outstripped its effectiveness), I'd have been just as happy if the show had continued in anthology format, making us love characters we'd never seen animated before who were otherwise obscure outside the comic-nerd world. Before JLU I only paid attention to Batman comics, but JLU has gotten me interested in the rest of DC's heroes stable, even if I often find out that an animated version of a character is more coherent and interesting than the original.

Frankly, I couldn't care less if the original seven were permanently relegated to the sidelines. They've had two entire seasons to themselves, not to mention the climax of the Cadmus arc. I'd much rather see an episode devoted to refurbishing a formerly obscure, dorky character (Aztec? Blue Devil? Commander Steel? Anybody.) than one refocusing on the Flash, who's already gotten a good share of screentime. I firmly believe that there's no such thing as a bad character, only badly used ones.

There are weeks when I watch an episode of JLU with indifference, and weeks when I'm living in the TV screen and shaking from excitement. Lots of last week's Scartaris episode left me unenthralled, but I at least could appreciate how much the team had tried to successfuly cram into one episode, and the pulpy thrills they were reaching toward. And if they didn't hit them this week they might hit them the next, because JL and JLU are both shows that never cease tinkering, experimenting and shifting. Even the show's failures are honorable ones.

I rolled my eyes at fair weather fans who knocked JLU's beginning episodes and then later slobbered over the show when the quality remained constant, and today I roll my eyes on those eager enough to knock the direction of a whole season on the basis of four episodes. Fandom encourages neurotic excess to warp critical judgement, and it's often the most faithful fans who have the most twisted and resentful love/hate relationships with a show. It's one of the mysterious curses of devotion.

[90'sCartoonMan]

Dens Maris and Revelator, those are well thought out points.


To bt and everyone on this thread, let's not worry about all this. Atleast, we got another season of our favorite D C heroes. I am thankful for that with all the D C events like Infinite Crisis rearing its head next month and the Alex Ross Justice book. Now is the perfect time to see the J L U take on the Legion Of Doom and the Teen Titans take on a bunch of villains. We're getting to see good D C T V. Not to mention that we got The Batman season 3 and Smallville season 5. What else do you D C fans want. It is a great time to be a D C fan. And for the record, my favorite show is bt and company's J L U followed strongly by Smallville. :D
What else do us DC fans want? How about a show or a movie or something that doesn't involve Batman or Superman, like...I dunno, Wonder Woman, or...nevermind.

God, I love DC.

Oh, and Style, you stole "All rights reserved" in your signature from me (who stole it from DisneyBoygate).