DCAU Romances

[Arsenal]

All right, one for the shippers. I list some of my favorite couplings (how about ten, ten's a good list number), and you tell me why I am wrong.

10. Question and Huntress
I believe the psychological term is défaut de deux. It means a coupling that is based on the mental instabilities of both partners. It's like finding to broken dinner plates and gluing them together to make a functional whole. (Think Bert and Ernie, Lucy and Desi...) Question and Huntress's flaws complement one another. I dig that.

9. Batman and Talia
Batman and Talia were everything that Batman and Catwoman were supposed to be and never were. There was sexual tension, friction due to ideologies, friction because she tended to leave him unconscious, friction because she turned out to be her father once; and if you watched Ally McBeal than you recall Fish saying that all male/female interactions were an analogy for sex: friction, friction,friction, release. Well, this one kept ratcheting up the tension; and just when you thought we were going to get a release, Talia turned out to be Ra's. That's a wicked tease.

8. Batman and Lois Lane
I don't want to overload this list with Batman, but this one deserves some love because it was unexpected and demonstrated Batman and Lois's similarities. Lois's investigative journalist is a couple years of judo training away from being a vigilante. She will frequently take the law into her own hands for perceived justice--so many counts of breaking and entering. And she certainly has intuition. Watching these two case each other made for a good fling.

7. Terry and Dana
This is a qualified entry. "Shrew" Dana or "second-fiddle-to-Max" Dana did not make the list. This is Epilogue Dana. This is Dana after demonstrating she is strong enough to be Batman's wife, not Terry's girlfriend. My knock on Dana for the longest time was that Melanie (Ten) was closer to being Terry and Batman's counterpart. Meanwhile, Dana was more like Terry's Veronica Vreeland, part of a disguisehe trotted out when he needed an alibi or R & R. It was not until Epilogue that we saw her commitment to Terry. If she seemed like a downer in the "sprints" that were Batman Beyond episodes, she won the marathon in Epilogue.

6. Superman and Lana Lang
There is something about one's childhood love, eh? I include Lana because she is the only "groupie" Superman will ever receive. She is an example of the multitudes of romantic admirers that would flock superheroes should they ever go public. (Okay, there is also Carter Hall; but he still creeps me out.) Lana adores Superman and Clark (see LSOK), and that is more than Lois has done. She is a friend (but don't you dare say "sister") and a compatriot; but in the end, this relationship only exists to prove Clark's dedication to Lois.

5. Joker and Harley Quinn
How does a narcissist fall in love? He looks in the mirror. This is the opposite of Huntress and Question's relationship. Joker and Harley's quirks are set on a collision course. Harley's obsessed with the Joker. Joker's obsessed with the Joker. Harley will never have her affection returned in full. Joker is full of Ralph-Kramden blustering except he frequently does knock Harley "to the moon." We painfully watch Harley dig for Joker's human side, knowing she will never find anything. Bad couple, compelling television. (They tried to echo this with Lex and Mercy in Tabula Rasa, and it was not as compelling. Maybe because the Joker strips away all innuendo.)

4. Ma and Pa Kent
Superheroes don't get a lot of quiet times. Relationships tend to incinerate or, at least, sputter out. Very few get their happily ever after. (Mr. Miracle and Barda are the only two that come to mind.) We don't get a lot of time for functional relationships, let alone successful parents. The Kents have raised two relatively well-adjusted superheroes. At times, it seems like they raised the only two well-adjusted superheroes. If dealing with a teenager is difficult, how about one with X-ray vision? I like the Kents because they are a hint of normal in a world where suspension of disbelief is mandatory.

3. Superman and Lois Lane
It's interesting how people can get schoolboy crushes well into their salad years. This relationship is even more entertaining because the object of the schoolboy's affections has a schoolgirl crush on the schoolboy's alter ego. The dialogue goes something like this:
Clark: I adore you.
Lois: (to Superman, not realizing he is Clark) I adore you.
Superman: I adored you first.
As nice as it was to see this couple together in Clash, for it to rise in my ranking, Lois needs to learn Clark is Superman. Until she is with both sides of the man, she will be less committed than Lana.

2. Batman and Andrea Beaumont
Bruce did not become Batman when he was eight. He became Batman later when he realized that even the woman he loved could not pacify him. Andrea is such a powerful character that she was too risky to bring directly back into Bruce's life because of the repercussions it would have. For Bruce, she was the one. (Take that Wonder Woman.)

1. Shayera and John Stewart
This couple defines the Justice League much in the same way that Batman/Andrea defined B:TAS (amazing, considering she didn't appear in any episodes) and Supes/Lois defined S:TAS. This relationship is decidedly complicated: a work-relationship, fidelity issues, interracial, interspecies. This is what dating would be like if the world depended on you every day. Things would never be as simple as going out on a date and remembering to set the alarm for tomorrow morning.

I will now briefly explain why some couples were rejected. Batman and WW: best when left to flirtation. GL and Vixen: a big, stinking red herring for GL-HG shippers to whine about. Terry and Ten: trumped by Epilogue Dana. Flash and Fire: too soon to judge. Batman and Zatanna: a young Bruce flirting was cute, almost made the list. Victor and Nora Fries: fizzled after she was resuscitated, makes Victor out to be a necrophiliac. Shayera and Carter: if one-night stands counted, Batman would have his own top ten. GA and BC: all sex and bombast without any of the character moments. Barbara and Dick: never paid off, he was too angsty when she was interested. Barbara and Bruce: offscreen. Barbara and Sam: one-sided relationship, the only time we see them together is when Babs is keeping him alive. Harvey Dent and Grace: if she would have had any return appearances, then they could have been contenders.

[I-Am That Is]

I will now briefly explain why some couples were rejected. Batman and WW: best when left to flirtation. GL and Vixen: a big, stinking red herring for GL-HG shippers to whine about. Terry and Ten: trumped by Epilogue Dana. Flash and Fire: too soon to judge. Batman and Zatanna: a young Bruce flirting was cute, almost made the list. Victor and Nora Fries: fizzled after she was resuscitated, makes Victor out to be a necrophiliac. Shayera and Carter: if one-night stands counted, Batman would have his own top ten. GA and BC: all sex and bombast without any of the character moments. Barbara and Dick: never paid off, he was too angsty when she was interested. Barbara and Bruce: offscreen. Barbara and Sam: one-sided relationship, the only time we see them together is when Babs is keeping him alive. Harvey Dent and Grace: if she would have had any return appearances, then they could have been contenders.
Where's Metamorpho and Sapphire?

[LeatherWings]

Hey not bad, any list that doesn't have Batman and Batgirl is a great list to me, though personally GL/Hawkgirl has gotten old and isn't really a number one spot holder, here's my topt ten:

1. Batman and Phantasm(It was perfect, yet so wrong)
2. Nightwing and Batgirl(Die-hard fan of the two)
3. Superman and Lana Lang(Yeah it was interesting, and Lois and Clark seems too pushed)
4. J'onn and his lover(hey they were together for thousands of years, and even after her death he won't date)
5. Batman and Wonder Woman(Not too too great in toon, but it inspired a perfectly written comic book romance tragedy)
6. Question and Huntress(Its cute and works, plus the nerd psyhcopath gets the hotty, I'm all up for that)
7. Green Arrow and Black Canary(It works in a weird way)
8. GL and Hakwgirl(Wasn't too falshy to me, still great though)
9. Mister Miracle and Big Barda(see Q and H, except this guys even more nerdy and he gets an equivelent to Wonder Woman)
10. Flash and Fire(it could work as a flirty realtionship with Flash acting nervous all the time, but still he should only be too serious with a Linda inspired character.

Well I'm sure I'm forgeting one, but oh well, oh and yes I have them backwards to the way you have it, but thats the way I thougt of them.

[Arsenal]

Where's Metamorpho and Sapphire? They got screen time in one episode. In that time, she managed to flirt with his best friend. It doesn't rank in top ten (or twenty) for me, though J'onn and his wife do merit mention. They certainly win the stamina award for the centuries together.

[I-Am That Is]

They got screen time in one episode. In that time, she managed to flirt with his best friend. It doesn't rank in top ten (or twenty) for me, though J'onn and his wife do merit mention. They certainly win the stamina award for the centuries together.When did she flirt with John?:confused:

The photos were put in that context by Stagg, but he was lying.

And I think staying with him even after he got turned into, well, what he got turned into, is something.

[Arsenal]

Perhaps it's just me, but she seemed awfully friendly to John when she was wearing just the towel. Though her loyalty should be commended, I still feel the pair are too underexposed to justify ranking, even though Lana was only featured in a few more episodes.

[I-Am That Is]

Perhaps it's just me, but she seemed awfully friendly to John when she was wearing just the towel. Though her loyalty should be commended, I still feel the pair are too underexposed to justify ranking, even though Lana was only featured in a few more episodes.Your inclusion of Dana is based on a grand total of two scenes from one episode, one of which never actually happened.

[Azrael24]

does anyone remember flash and hawkgirl?? well, heres my list:

1. Hawkgirl/Green Lantern
2. Huntress/Question
3. Superman/Lois
4. Flash/Fire
5. Supergirl/Jimmy (forgot about them huh?)
6. Green Arrow/Black Canary
7. Batman/Talia
8. Batman/Wonder Woman (if like arsenal says, they stay as flirting)
9. Robin/the Clay Girl :crying:
10. Terry/Dana

out of the ones that are not DCAU but still DCAU are:

1. TB= Bruce/Selina & Catwoman/Batman
2. TT= Starfire/Robin
3. TB= Batman,Bruce/Yin

[Phantasm]

Batman and Andrea Beaumont
Bruce did not become Batman when he was eight. He became Batman later when he realized that even the woman he loved could not pacify him. Andrea is such a powerful character that she was too risky to bring directly back into Bruce's life because of the repercussions it would have. For Bruce, she was the one. (Take that Wonder Woman.)


Yes. This pairing is my favorite one and because of those reasons you've listed above.People don't like the concept of Andrea being the source of the birth of Batman.What they fail to see, it seems is that, Andrea was just a symbol of that last shred of love and peace and hope that could have, but didn't save Bruce.

Babs Gordon and Dick Grayson- There's a reason why this pair has stood the test of time in any Batman media. Its the epitome of a superhero relationship and yes, I'll choose to disregard the mess that Dick/Babs/Bruce became. Babs belongs with Dick.

[bobspoland]

my favourite is GL and Shayera. can someone answer me this why did batgirl and dick stop going out? was it cause he found out that she was batgirl?

[Arsenal]

Your inclusion of Dana is based on a grand total of two scenes from one episode, one of which never actually happened.
And the entirety of season one. Epilogue was her coup de grace (to abuse the term). She was a match for Terry until they introduced Max and reduced her to shrewing.

[LeatherWings]

This is for you Azrael, no I didn't forget Jimmy and Supergirl, I never really saw episodes with it though, and it isn't top ten for me. As for your Elseworlds DCAU shows, the first one I likee, but the next two make me puke. Thankfully TB is ditching Yin for season three from what I've heard, and I HATE TT toon's version of Starfire, and I never saw what Robin sees in her. I mean where's the attraction, it seems like she has a crush on him, and he merely is wrote bad and likes her back, its too out of character for him to like her if you ask me. If i had to pick betweem Robin with Starfire or Raven, I'd definately pick Raven. Thats one reason why I would HATE it if TT joined the DCAU, because I can't see either of the two Robins in the DCAU liking Starfire, plus the TT's Robin is nothing like either of the two DCAU Robins, I mean TT's a good show, but the only shows that should be in Timm continuity are Timm produced(or produced by someone like Dini)

I'd much rather see TT in The Batman's universe, but personally TT and TB should stay in there own little universes, thankfully the chances of a TT/JLU crossover is very slim.

EDIT=Oops, almost forgot, yeah I consider that the only mistake Timm made in his career. This is to respond to the question about Dick/Babs/Bruce. See in the final ep of the original 85 B:TAS eps, it had a dream where Babs dreams she's making out with Batman, and then Dick comes upto here. I haven't seen TNBA, but in one flashback ep Dick is about to propose to Babs, but then they see the bat signal or something. The rest is basically in TNBA the Babs show more interest in Batman, and Bruce never really responds back, she's also kinda into Dick or something. Anyways, then we're led to believe that somewhere in between TNBA and BB, Babs and Bruce were either A)married, B)**** buddies, or C)dating. And thats all we know, now with JLU existing, and Bats having a small thing with Wonder Woman, I don't know wher this thing with Babs really comes into play.

[Style]

Superman/Batman.

I'm still waiting for that marriage episode, b.t.!

[I.R Joey]

Superman/Batman.

I'm still waiting for that marriage episode, b.t.!
We know about your powers of hypnotic suggestion over the staff Style. Don't misuse them, you know the Spider-man mantra young man. :p

[Jazzie]

John and Shayera's relationship is microcasm of the league--good and bad. The writers love the push/pull to the point I wonder if they'll ever give them resolution.


1. John and Shayera
2. Batman and Wonder Woman (I like it, the dark knight and the princess)
3. Question and Huntress ( crazy people need love too)
4. Batman and Catwoman
5. Superman and Lois
6. Flash and Fire (lots of potential)
7. Green Aarow and Supergirl (its like uncle/niece but I enjoy it)
8. Batman and Talia (I always liked her)
9. Terry McGinnis and Dana
10. Green Aarow and Black Canary

[Ian]

A: You're wrong.

Why:


10. Question and Huntress
I believe the psychological term is défaut de deux. It means a coupling that is based on the mental instabilities of both partners. It's like finding to broken dinner plates and gluing them together to make a functional whole. (Think Bert and Ernie, Lucy and Desi...) Question and Huntress's flaws complement one another. I dig that.While this is my favorite of the four (five) main JLU relationships, I'll admit to being a bit I'm a bit flabbergasted by this one. Part of it is the quickness with which they began their relationship, and part of it is that I just can't see what they see in each other. Huntress, I feel, is too unaware of her own flaws to notice how they complement her partner's. The Question is too unstable to pursue a relationship of his own free will.


7. Terry and Dana
This is a qualified entry. "Shrew" Dana or "second-fiddle-to-Max" Dana did not make the list. This is Epilogue Dana. This is Dana after demonstrating she is strong enough to be Batman's wife, not Terry's girlfriend. My knock on Dana for the longest time was that Melanie (Ten) was closer to being Terry and Batman's counterpart. Meanwhile, Dana was more like Terry's Veronica Vreeland, part of a disguisehe trotted out when he needed an alibi or R & R. It was not until Epilogue that we saw her commitment to Terry. If she seemed like a downer in the "sprints" that were Batman Beyond episodes, she won the marathon in Epilogue.Meh. I have little sympathy for pushovers, and the way Dana continued to tag along, even when Terry was clearly focused on other things, makes me dislike her more than usual. She should have dumped his ass years ago.


4. Ma and Pa Kent
Superheroes don't get a lot of quiet times. Relationships tend to incinerate or, at least, sputter out. Very few get their happily ever after. (Mr. Miracle and Barda are the only two that come to mind.) We don't get a lot of time for functional relationships, let alone successful parents. The Kents have raised two relatively well-adjusted superheroes. At times, it seems like they raised the only two well-adjusted superheroes. If dealing with a teenager is difficult, how about one with X-ray vision? I like the Kents because they are a hint of normal in a world where suspension of disbelief is mandatory.For another happy DCAU couple, look no further than Dr. Fate and Inza.



3. Superman and Lois Lane
It's interesting how people can get schoolboy crushes well into their salad years. This relationship is even more entertaining because the object of the schoolboy's affections has a schoolgirl crush on the schoolboy's alter ego. The dialogue goes something like this:
Clark: I adore you.
Lois: (to Superman, not realizing he is Clark) I adore you.
Superman: I adored you first.
As nice as it was to see this couple together in Clash, for it to rise in my ranking, Lois needs to learn Clark is Superman. Until she is with both sides of the man, she will be less committed than Lana.
Why I like this coupling in theory, JLU ruined it for me. They have been in a commited relationship for approximately four years: there is no good reason for Superman not to have told her his secret identity.


1. Shayera and John Stewart
This couple defines the Justice League much in the same way that Batman/Andrea defined B:TAS (amazing, considering she didn't appear in any episodes) and Supes/Lois defined S:TAS. This relationship is decidedly complicated: a work-relationship, fidelity issues, interracial, interspecies. This is what dating would be like if the world depended on you every day. Things would never be as simple as going out on a date and remembering to set the alarm for tomorrow morning.I see this as the Ross/Rachel of the DCAU, with all that implies. Like that couple, the writers' game of "will they/won't they" will be its undoing. If the writers had taken the time to make them a true couple, instead of ending things before they began, then maybe I could have become invested in it. As it is, the writers have killed it for me--don't get me started on the current love triangle.

Personally, I'm not too keen on any on the JLU couples. The workplace enviroment is too limiting a prism for us to see the relationships properly, and they all suffer for it. We need to see the couples doing more than bust heads: we need dates; we need more conversations about nothing; we need more normalcy, before they can become fully fleshed out.

On a related note, I'd like to see Leaguers begin romances with people outside the League. Workplace romances are supposed to be somewhat rare and not encouraged, yet here they're practically the norm. Have one of the leaguers begin a relationship with "some guy" somebody not inside their semi-incestous little circle--imagine seeing Supergirl dating someone in the support staff, or Amanda Waller dating a college professor. Booster Gold had the hot scientist chick, but we haven't seen anything from them since they debuted.

In the end, they just feel too unrealistic, not focused-on enough, and, ironically, too prominent. Either expand the prism or get rid of them.

[jv2k]

Well the beaty of a work relationship with the jlu is that you don't have to worry about your secret identity getting in the way.

[LeatherWings]

/\
Yeah thats why I think Flash/Fire should be temporary, and the he should meet Linda. But most of them work, I mean even in comics alot of the time its a hero and a heroine, personally GA and BC needs to see more light to it, it works but they need to show more to it, but then again it pretty much the same as in the comics, so no real complaint can be put up without dissing thirty some years of comic history. Question and Huntress its cool, still need to see more though. GL and Hawkgirl, I say they should end it personally, I mean either that or settle it, it was nice originally but its dragged on. Batman and Wonder Woman, they make it work, I mean it inspired a pretty cool comic too, and if they work with it they could make it work. And I'm not sure who the other main JLU romance is(There's Bats/WW, GL/HG, Q/H, GA/BC, and there's many more, but none really official leaguers I can think of, so what are the five? I know you said fu but which five were you thinking of.)

My post was to Ian.

[Arsenal]

You make good points, Ian. I will do my best to respond.

Huntress and Q: I agree that the Question and Huntress are unstable, the exact type of couple that might stumble into a relationship. Having them together is realistic enough. (She is, afterall, attracted to his eccentric charm.) Giving them a happily-ever-after is out of the question. Eventually, she will grow sick of his eccentricities and dump him.

Terry and Dana: I have been forced to call in the expert.
http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/sections/fanworks/edits/procon/procon7b.php
An editorial from the WF site. Old Maid explains why Dana was a worthwhile character better than I could. (I have no sympathy for pushover Dana either, but I do recall when she was a strong, smart counterpoint to Terry's stubbornness.)

Dr. Fate and Inza: Point well made, but Ma and Pa Kent have had the additional domestic bliss of children.

Superman and Lois: Let's chalk up the "four years" thing to Peanuts time. Is that too much of a cop out?

John Stewart and Shayera: Yeah, the Ross/Rachel analogy is apt. I didn't mind the Vixen complication, mostly because I like the character. Hawkman is pushing it.

I agree that some heroes should date outside of the workplace, but how would one fit that into the milieu of an action show? Unless, of course, the character were already established like Lois.

[Fone Bone]

10. Green Lantern/Flash. Despite the fact that these two guys are straight Everything about their relationship screams romance. They met cute, had a rocky start and are now best friends. Sounds right to me.

9. Terry McGuinnis/ Epilogue Dana. Even though we only saw her in one REAL scene the fact that she would stick with Terry for fifteen years screams volumes.

8. Static/ Daisy. A truly cute couple. I like that Virgil is both clueless around Daisy and super-protective. Also of note is the amount of cute scenes they have in the DCAU is probably greater than other DCAU couple.

7. Batman/Talia. Out of Batman's many loves on the animated series, Talia is probably the one he understands least, which makes for great dynamics and plenty of regrets.

6. Batman/ Wonder Woman. If they keep it at the flirty stage (which I'm almost positive they will) this will be a dance that I will always enjoy watching.

5. The Question/ Huntress. How sick is it that I'm actually pulling for these crazy kids to make it work?

4. Superman/ Batman. Style's right, this is a great romance. Or possibly torrid love affair. The only difference between that and them is there is no sex involved (that we know of).

3. Superman/ Lois Lane. This will drop on the list if Lois NEVER finds out. Crazily I'm almost hoping for JLU season three to disappoint us and have the revelation come out of nowhere in Superman: Strange Allies.

2. Bruce Wayne/ Andrea Beaumont. I almost put Batman in the heading but he honestly has little to nothing to do with this. Easily the most tragic Romance in the DCAU.

1. Shayera/ Green Lantern. But this is a contender. Why is this higher than Bruce and Andie? Because that romance was doomed. This one is interesting because it might not be.

[Ian]

An editorial from the WF site. Old Maid explains why Dana was a worthwhile character better than I could. (I have no sympathy for pushover Dana either, but I do recall when she was a strong, smart counterpoint to Terry's stubbornness.)
I have a confession to make. My exposure to Dana is composed entirely of her small appearance in Return of the Joker and her part in Epilogue. I have no idea of what she was like in Batman Beyond, but, based on what little I saw of her in Epilogue, she deserved what she got. Unfair? Yeah. But that's just me.


Dr. Fate and Inza: Point well made, but Ma and Pa Kent have had the additional domestic bliss of children.
You will find no argument from me here.


Superman and Lois: Let's chalk up the "four years" thing to Peanuts time. Is that too much of a cop out?
Yes. Superman is an ass for not telling her.


I agree that some heroes should date outside of the workplace, but how would one fit that into the milieu of an action show? Unless, of course, the character were already established like Lois.
I honestly don't know. Maybe if the show was still set around the core seven it could be done--and even then it would require some reformating-- but now...? One of the reasons I'm still not convinced expanding the roster was a good idea.

[Azrael24]

I have a confession to make. My exposure to Dana is composed entirely of her small appearance in Return of the Joker and her part in Epilogue. I have no idea of what she was like in Batman Beyond, but, based on what little I saw of her in Epilogue, she deserved what she got. Unfair? Yeah. But that's just me.
how was it unfair?? they're getting married...

[LeatherWings]

Man everybody's got this so wrong as far as the whole superhero and superhero gets old. First off, being a superhero is more than a job to most, its their life. If two people can relate being supeheros there's a greater chance of it working, becuase its one fo their greatest characteristics and they share it. So there's more of an attraction. Sure supehero and non superheroor good too, but when there's two superheroes its something they share, so it adds to it. Besides GA and BC was a main romance in DC comics for a long time, Huntress and Question only happened once, and was interesting in comics, because it seemed like Question was the only guy Huntress couldn't get into her pants, and it seemed like she liked him. Batman and Wondern Woman originated in the show, but lead to a great comic. As for GL and Hawkgirl, they made it work, but by the way things have been I'd prefer if the two left each other, why? Because I'm sick of everything being perfect in the end, people aren't always with one person the whole show, so it'd be great if GL and HG was settled.

[Archangel2385]

10. Booster Gold/Tracy - One of the few "out of the office" relationships in JLU. I liked the idea of this couple and hope it is explored in future episodes.

9. Flash/Fire - This couple also has potential that I wish to be explored. Flash's cruch is pretty cute, and it's obvious that Fire is interested in getting to know him better, so why not?

8. The Fates - I've always been a fan of lasting marriage in cartoons (maybe because it's much more rare in real-life :sad: ), and I've always liked both characters and their dedication to each other.

7. Mister Miracle/Big Barda - See above. What put this above the Fates is Big Barda; there's something irrestiable to me about females that could kick my butt if they wanted to ;) .

6. John/Mari - This couple could actually work, and I really wish we could have seen this couple in its prime. When Shayera wasn't in the picture, I'd say this couple had great chemistry together. They're probably one of the best "theoretical" couples in the JLU.

5. Bruce/Talia - I just really liked this relationship, particularly the tragic aspect of it.

4. Black Canary/Green Arrow - This was the first relationship of the JLU, and it offered a very welcome change of pace from the epic nature of the John/Shayera plot. Their relationship proceeded in a very different way, and I love how both the characters feed off each other.

3. Huntress/Question - I like them for the same reason I like the BC/GA pairing, but this couple's intense personalities easily places them above the former. Both are incredibly unpredictable; you never really know what either will do or how they will react to various situations. Huntress' aggressive and protective nature definitely added a lot to my enjoyment. It also humanized Question more in that we find that like "normal" people, he does in fact look at, like, and/or fall for women (and dang, is Huntress a catch :D ). They were also given so rather nice bonding moments, such as . . .

Question: "You were right, I really am the ugliest guy in the world."
Huntress: "Not in my eyes."

You can call it corny if you want, but stuff I like that is what I love about this couple.

2. Bruce/Andrea - This relationship is noteworthy in that it MADE Batman. Without the tragedy in "Mask of The Phantasm," Batman might not come to be. This relationship was also great, because the directors really gave sense that these two were soul-mates. They just seemed so right, which makes their fate all the more tragic.

1. John/Shayera - This is the premier couple of the JL universe, and with good reason. We have watched this pair's relationship grow increasing complex over the last few years, and it has significantly developed both characters. Every scene with them together is great, they just play off each other so well, and their personalities complement each other very well. This relationship is so important to many fans that there could actually be a riot if they didn't work out (yeah dang right BT, that's a threat :p ).

[Sue]

Question/Huntress - even if it doesn't last (and I don't think it will), their time together was fun to watch

Black Canary/Green Arrow - they're one of DC's power couples. That, and they play off each other well

Wonderwoman/Steve Trevor - like the others, they were fun to watch together, and because they in the middle of a war (and a time loop), there was this need to make the best of their time together. It also showed us Diana's softer side.

and because I'm a perv,
Vixen/Green Lantern/Hawkgirl/Carter - because I like them all (and because I can't decide who to push for), they should go the "Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice" route :evil:

[Arsenal]

I'm resuscitating an old thread of mine in light of "Ancient History." (Mods, let me know if this thread is too old.)

With "Ancient History" we received a conclusive non-conclusion. John and Shayera will have a child together. That means they will reconcile for, at least, one night. Of course, he's recognized as the father one thousand years in the future, so he probably did some raising; and it's likely (but never stated) that John and Shayera end with one another.

But, for now, he is committing to Mari. (Sidenote: it was nice to hear him admit that he had been unfair to both of them.) Mari and John got some real treatment in "Ancient History." They cohabitated for an entire scene without Shayera intercalating herself. In that scene, they looked cozy--cute even. Vixen was finally given a chance to be something besides the "other woman."

I admit, I thought Mari was a red herring from the moment we were introduced to her. I patiently waited for John and Shayera to get back together, and I'm glad I was wrong. This episode legitimizes Mari and John's relationship as something besides a rebound. It also legitimizes Mari who, until now, was buoyed by great action scenes and Gina Torres' stunning vocals.

(Vixen is one of JLU's break-out stars. Question and Vigilante are the other two.)

But what does this do to John and Shayera? Does this lower their rank for not ending together, or does "Ancient History" raise it? They died together in a previous life. They are fated to have a child together. How does "Ancient History" affect their ranking?"

Me, personally, I think this raises the stock of Mari of John's coupling at the expense of John and Shayera. Perhaps it had to, or we would complain "I saw that coming all along." To the creative team's credit, none of us saw this coming; and I liked that Mari turned out to be a character and not an obstacle.

John and Shayera became a bit overwrought by the end. How could they not? Out of 91 episodes, John and Shayera dated for three, four if you count the end of "Wild Cards." That's a long time to tease an audience and despite the crew's hard work, it did become tiresome by the end. Perhaps the crew recognized that and decided to breathe life into Mari and John.

So HG & GL drop to #2 in my estimation, making Andrea Beaumont and Bruce Wayne the quintessential DCAU couple.

[Sr.Infierno]

Even if it's not 100% canon in the cartoon, Best Boy and Raven has always been a fanfiction favorite of mine

[Zero X Marquis]

Someone said something about Dana being a push over and she should have dumped Terry.

Okay, from an evolutionary perspective, no women in their right mind would leave Terry. On all fronts, Terry has the most adaptive features, even a sense of loyalty. He stands to inherit the Wayne fortune, or at least a big chunk of it, he's good looking, physically fit, and well, he's flippin Batman (both his most attractive and maladaptive quality at the same time)

I personally liked the Batgirl/Batman never actually seen on screen relationship. It made the most sense to me, and again, from an adaptive perspective, as well as psychological, it seems to be the most genuine. The fact that the two knew it would kill whatever relationship was being rebuilt with Nightwing... I just like that atmospheric controversy.

[DisneyBoy]

Arsenal, thank you for the great read :) My comments...

Personally, I'm not too keen on any on the JLU couples. The workplace enviroment is too limiting a prism for us to see the relationships properly, and they all suffer for it. We need to see the couples doing more than bust heads: we need dates; we need more conversations about nothing; we need more normalcy, before they can become fully fleshed out.

John Stewart and Shayera: Yeah, the Ross/Rachel analogy is apt. I didn't mind the Vixen complication, mostly because I like the character. Hawkman is pushing it.

EXACTLY! Vixen worked because...she worked. Shayera was just a lost soul, while here was a woman with her own job, life and sense of self. That's pretty darn attractive. So much so, that her addition to the romantic entanglement felt really welcome. But, I knew she wouldn't end up with John, and was interested in seeing her on her own, free from the "other woman" label. That never happened, and Hawkman was brought it before the writers knew how to handle their Mari twist. All of which came to a head in "Ancient History" when Shadow Thief said "she's not a part of this." Actually, Carter, she is. You're the one barging in.

Part of the reason why I enjoy ER these days, despite most of the world tuning the show out, is because there's a playfulness in it that balances the work/home dramas. JLU was getting into that territory with "Wake the Dead". Between Shayera's personal crisis, Vixen's newfound love, and John's unresolved (and clearly supressed) feelings, there was much more going on than just the work (Grundy being possessed...woohoo). I really feel that the creative team's love of high octane action made them forget what's really entertaining.

I personally liked the Batgirl/Batman never actually seen on screen relationship. It made the most sense to me, and again, from an adaptive perspective, as well as psychological, it seems to be the most genuine. The fact that the two knew it would kill whatever relationship was being rebuilt with Nightwing... I just like that atmospheric controversy.

It's amazing to me that this relationship grew entirely out of what wasn't being shown. All we got was TNBA and some references in BB. That's it, that's all folks (I don't count the cringe-inducing Barbara scene in Batwoman...in fact, I don't count that movie at all). And yet, I feel like I already know every detail of how it went down the way it did. That's really, really good writing.

7. Batman/Talia. Out of Batman's many loves on the animated series, Talia is probably the one he understands least, which makes for great dynamics and plenty of regrets.

6. Batman/ Wonder Woman. If they keep it at the flirty stage (which I'm almost positive they will) this will be a dance that I will always enjoy watching.

Batsy really does have a blind spot for Talia. He thinks he gets her, he's wary of her, and yet she always, ALWAYS gets the better of him. The difference with Catwoman is that there's an allowance. I think that really came through in Batman Returns. When she's grabs his ears and pulls his head down towards her rising knee, he has enough time to stop her...but doesn't. The blows here are welcome and understood.

3. Superman/ Lois Lane. This will drop on the list if Lois NEVER finds out. Crazily I'm almost hoping for JLU season three to disappoint us and have the revelation come out of nowhere in Superman: Strange Allies.

...I agree...but what's Superman: Strange Allies?!? *checks post date* :eek: This thread is from LAST YEAR? Wow. :p Don't know how I missed it. Great thread!

Superman and Lois: Let's chalk up the "four years" thing to Peanuts time. Is that too much of a cop out?

Yes. :anime: I really, REALLY want them to go for the reveal/marriage/unspoken understanding angle in Superman: Brainiac Attacks. I mean REALLY. All those "let's pretend no one ever ages and things can always stay the same" people are wrong. This relationship needs the resolution. So did John and Shayera, especially for that last shot in Destroyer to work.

[Trevor Balena]

I really feel that the creative team's love of high octane action made them forget what's really entertaining.

Isn't that more than a little presumptuous of you? I find JLU entertaining just the way it is. So do millions of others, including the vast majority of the posters on this board. Just because the show didn't focus on the areas that you'd like, doesn't mean the producers "forgot" how to make a good show... just that it seems that you forgot that you're watching an action cartoon.

But sure, there's a place for drama, romance, and the like. And we've gotten plenty of it. "Ancient History" was chalk full of it... so much so that others have lamented that JLU seems to be turning into a soap opera! When you look at the bigger picture, the romantic relationships between characters have gotten a lot of screen time, much more than in any other DCAU series.

[BigFatHairyDeal]

I really feel that the creative team's love of high octane action made them forget what's really entertaining.

:confused:

This post couldn't be any more ironic than today, the day after "Ancient History" aired.

I'd also say the creative team would be out of their freakin' minds if they tried to make a Justice League show that didn't showcase action.

[DisneyBoy]

I wasn't speaking specifically of "Ancient History". I was commenting on why "Wake the Dead" was so successful - the action made up only a third of what was going on. And far be it for me to say what a "good" or "bad" show is.

My point is simply that JL/JLU was at it's best when the drama and action were on an equal playing field. Drama can raise the stakes of the action as much as action can raise the stakes of the drama.

"Ancient History" is most certainly a dramatic piece, and I was quite pleased with how it tied the past Thanagarian episodes together with the Egyptian lore previously missing from Shayera's background. It is certainly one of the better episodes of the third season.

As for this being an "action cartoon", B:TAS was more of a dramatic cartoon in my mind, and that's what I've come to expect as we've gone along. JLU is certainly the most action-oriented of all the shows, but that doesn't mean I don't find it entertaining. It's been entertaining.

:confused:

[90'sCartoonMan]

Arsenal, my apologies for not spotting this thread last year. And after I enjoyed your Marvel one so much.

Bruce and Andi is great, but I love Batman/Talia. Probably because even though Talia would always go back to Ra's, she loved Batman. She knew more about Batman than Andrea and Selina because she knew that Batman is Bruce Wayne. In "Out of the Past", Bruce keeps pictures of all the women he's had relationships with, and the only one he has of himself with one of them is the one of Talia.

I think "Ancient History" made John and Shayera look better. The stuff from the past was awesome, and even though John makes his own decisions and stays with Mari, we know he ends up with Shayera.


Superman and Lois: Let's chalk up the "four years" thing to Peanuts time. Is that too much of a cop out?

Yes. :anime: I really, REALLY want them to go for the reveal/marriage/unspoken understanding angle in Superman: Brainiac Attacks. I mean REALLY. All those "let's pretend no one ever ages and things can always stay the same" people are wrong.

In defense of Superman, just because he and Lois kissed at the end of "Legacy" doesn't mean that they started a relationship right after that. That was simply the next step. I'm not even sure they were dating by the time of "FTMWHE" since his ideal wife was a Lois/Lana composite. They were together at the time of "Question Authority", that's all we're really sure of.

[Trevor Balena]

In "Out of the Past", Bruce keeps pictures of all the women he's had relationships with, and the only one he has of himself with one of them is the one of Talia.
Actually, he had a picture of himself with Barbara. I can't remember if he was also in Talia's picture, but I don't think so.

[Wolf Boy2]

Yes. This pairing is my favorite one and because of those reasons you've listed above.People don't like the concept of Andrea being the source of the birth of Batman.What they fail to see, it seems is that, Andrea was just a symbol of that last shred of love and peace and hope that could have, but didn't save Bruce.
Andrea was not the source of Batman. He was already training (he was back from Japan) and was already fighting crime. He was even designing the costume. Andrea was a brief distraction, that almost made him stop being Batman.

Babs Gordon and Dick Grayson- There's a reason why this pair has stood the test of time in any Batman media. Its the epitome of a superhero relationship and yes, I'll choose to disregard the mess that Dick/Babs/Bruce became. Babs belongs with Dick.
The Nightwing/Oracle relationship only works with ORACLE. In the DCAU, Babs never got shot and paralyzed, so I wouldn't expect the Dick/Barbara relationship to bear fruit.

Personally, I found the Bruce/Barbara/Dick triangle to be wicked cool gossip. But then again, I watch Desperate Housewives, so I find that stuff cool.

[Itchy]

What about Bullock and Montoya?:)

[HanaKirei]

While I was an avid Hawkgirl/GL shipper for the longest time, I admit I was driven off by all the dramatics and will-they-won't-they that ended up springing up over him. I like some conflict in my pet ships and all, but not soap operas.

Which is why I was all too glad when Question/Huntress came into play. There's still that conflict there, but there's still plenty of fluff to be had. They don't sit there and have to worry about past lives or future lives or love rectangles, they don't play a game of tag with each other for episodes or seasons on end. There's an attraction, they come out and say it.

Not only that, but it sort of amazes me how well their quirks ended up playing off each other. You've got Question, a guy who's more than once thrown himself headfirst into situations that might've gotten him killed and doesn't really have the weapons or the training to back himself up. Huntress' fierce overprotectiveness is actually merited when it comes to him, and she definately has the brute force to back it up. At the same time, I honestly think Question's got a calming influence over Huntress. I mean, come on -- even before they got romantically involved, he managed to keep her from murdering her parents' killer. Not to mention it gives them both some sort of constant in each other's lives. Among other things here, which I probably could've phrase right if I tried. (Heck, I'm probably doing a horrid job as it is. :sweat:)

Then there's the fact that the two of them are outcasts in a sense. Would anyone else have helped Huntress track down and face Mandragora? How much longer would it have taken for the rest of the Justice League to have noticed Question was missing?

I don't know. I just don't think they're temporary at all. I'm not saying here that they won't have their off-moments. They're both nutjobs, it's bound to happen. Then we've got Huntress' track record with men in the comic-verse. But personally, I'm more of the opinion that they'd come apart and find themselves right back together again. No, not turning into the aforementioned soap opera situation either, because neither of them strikes me as the type for it. Plus honestly, where else are they going to find someone that compliments their nut-tastic traits as well as the other does in the long run? The biggest negative I could see for these two is if Question really did end up getting himself killed, because

Meh. This is just my opinion, of course. :sweat: But yeah. My experience lies mainly with JL/JLU, but these guys easily take the cake for me.

(Surprisingly, upon re-watching Enemy Below awhile ago, I had a lot more appreciation for Aquaman/Mera than I did way back when. Huh.)

[90'sCartoonMan]

Actually, he had a picture of himself with Barbara. I can't remember if he was also in Talia's picture, but I don't think so.

Barbara, eh? Well it's been a while since I've seen that episode, but I'm pretty sure it ends with him looking at a picture of himself (as Bruce Wayne) and Talia together.

[Phantasm]

The Nightwing/Oracle relationship only works with ORACLE. In the DCAU, Babs never got shot and paralyzed, so I wouldn't expect the Dick/Barbara relationship to bear fruit.
.
What does their relationship have anything to do with Babs being Oracle? That would be more of a hindrance to their relationship than anything else.

[James]

Barbara, eh? Well it's been a while since I've seen that episode, but I'm pretty sure it ends with him looking at a picture of himself (as Bruce Wayne) and Talia together.

There is a scene which - if I recall (and I too have hazy recollections) of Bruce at a table with Talia which the show plays out on, but yes, there were two Barbara pics, one with him in it (timer?) and one of just Barb.

[DLM]

and where is shining knight and vigilante?

[Arsenal]

and where is shining knight and vigilante?


This was later in Vigilante's career, after he changed his name to the Rhinestone Cowboy.

[Batlaw]

Hmm, cant say I really have an opinion regarding the ranking of any of listed pairings... Ive enjoyed most and see some "validity" in each. However; this the best place to voice my personal concern and dissagreement with the notion of Barbara / Batgirl and Batman's "relationship" as eluded to on Batman Beyond. Babs having a "crush" on Bruce back in the day is totally fitting, understandable and believeable. But Bruce actually engaging in a physical relationship with Barbara (at any stage in their partnership) just seems so incredibly out of character in every way IMO.

[Jazzie]

I liked about four or five Batman romances (Selina, Talia, Barbara) but the one with the most potential with Wonder Woman didn't get off the ground though. I liked John and Shayera a lot, it should have been handled better. Terry and Dana was good. OOh and Huntress and Question.

[90'sCartoonMan]

There is a scene which - if I recall (and I too have hazy recollections) of Bruce at a table with Talia which the show plays out on, but yes, there were two Barbara pics, one with him in it (timer?) and one of just Barb.

There were two of Barbara? I thought one of them was Andrea. Was she in there at all?

[Trevor Balena]

There were two of Barbara? I thought one of them was Andrea. Was she in there at all?
This had been a subject of some debate in the past. Some people think that Barbara was in there twice, others think that one picture was of Barb, and the other was of Andrea. Since both pictures show women of identical hair colour, eye colour, and facial structure, wearing the same clothes, and the only difference is the absence of Bruce and a different backdrop, I'm inclinded to believe that it's Barb in both cases.

[The Weed Of Cri]

Okay, we've got Green Lantern and Hawkgirl, and we all know where that's going (see: Warhawk), then we throw Vixen and Hawkman, plus Shadow Thief (Hawkman's id), Flash's early infatuation with Hawkgirl (cooled off by now, but I'd still like to know how he voted in "Starcrossed"), a possible Flash/Fire future coupling...oh, and let's not forget Katma Tui. What started as a love triangle now more closely resembles an octogon. Or maybe a tesseract. All the possible permutations of this soap opera could make a top ten list all by itself.

Hey, how come no one has mentioned Harley Quin/Poison Ivy? And don't say they're "just friends". We all know how Ivy feels about men.

[Arsenal]

Originally posted by the person directly above me
Okay, we've got Green Lantern and Hawkgirl, and we all know where that's going (see: Warhawk), then we throw Vixen and Hawkman, plus Shadow Thief (Hawkman's id), Flash's early infatuation with Hawkgirl (cooled off by now, but I'd still like to know how he voted in "Starcrossed"), a possible Flash/Fire future coupling...oh, and let's not forget Katma Tui. What started as a love triangle now more closely resembles an octogon. Or maybe a tesseract. All the possible permutations of this soap opera could make a top ten list all by itself.


But why stop there? There are Flash and Linda Park, Flash and Giganta, Grodd and Giganta, Grodd and Tala, Lex and Tala, Lex and Mercy, Lex and Braniac, Lex and Lana, Superman and Lana, Superman and Lois, Batman and Lois, Batman and Selena, Batman and Talia, Batman and Andrea Beaumont, Batman and the plant lady, Batman and Barbara Gordan, and Barbara Gordan and Dick Grayson...


Hey, how come no one has mentioned Harley Quin/Poison Ivy? And don't say they're "just friends". We all know how Ivy feels about men.

Yes, but what about Harley and Joker, Ivy and Harvey Dent, Harvey Dent and Grace, Will and Grace, Grace Under Fire, Fire and Flash, Flash and Linda Park...

[Cortez2301]

Is bats still in love with selina kyle?and Talia?

[James]

There were two of Barbara? I thought one of them was Andrea. Was she in there at all?

It was definately Barbara twice as her relevance to his dirty slideshow of past lurve was narrative relevant. They followed on from each other, same model and colours. It was the TNBA Barb. We don't know for sure what Andrea looks like TNBA style, but it's unlikely she's identical.

Yes, she was strangely left from the equation. Maybe because these were people Bruce saw as there being genuine regrets he didn't go further with or in Barb's case, stay with. Lois was a potential. So was Selena (especially prior to her more thieving TNBA days. Zatanna again, she had potential he ignored.

Andrea, blew it big time and went down a part he couldn't recouncile. As naughty as Selena is, she's not a killer. Talia wasn't on the group either, so again you could argue she was not someone he felt he could recouncile differences with, however felt saddness when he found out about her undignified resolution.

It's just a thought. Probably just a simple list of relevant and recent characters that viewers would know (being they had more than one outing each while Andrea just had one and MAYBE was a little too similar in looks to Barbara that may have caused confusion).

Hey, maybe Bruce went out with Barb because she reminded him of a young Andrea. Is that even more creepy or what?


Is bats still in love with selina kyle?and Talia?

I think he cared for both but both strayed onto paths he could never recouncile.

[The Weed Of Cri]

But why stop there? There are Flash and Linda Park, Flash and Giganta, Grodd and Giganta, Grodd and Tala, Lex and Tala, Lex and Mercy, Lex and Braniac, Lex and Lana, Superman and Lana, Superman and Lois, Batman and Lois, Batman and Selena, Batman and Talia, Batman and Andrea Beaumont, Batman and the plant lady, Batman and Barbara Gordan, and Barbara Gordan and Dick Grayson...



Yes, but what about Harley and Joker, Ivy and Harvey Dent, Harvey Dent and Grace, Will and Grace, Grace Under Fire, Fire and Flash, Flash and Linda Park...

Stay tuned for Justice League: The Daytime Drama.

[Wingmuffin]

I think Barbara and Bruce got together after JLU and after Tim left. Batman quits the JLU or stops associating with them for a time, perhaps Alfred gets sick, Dick had left for Bludhaven, leaving only Bruce and Barbara in mutual need of someone.

I took that scene in MOTB as Bruce being uncomfortable with Barbara's obvious crush on him, not that they were having a relationship at the moment. Maybe Bruce "used" her as a date (like in Batman Adventures) for some uncover assignment and Barbara took it for more than it was.

[Legend1203]

I think Barbara and Bruce got together after JLU and after Tim left. Batman quits the JLU or stops associating with them for a time, perhaps Alfred gets sick, Dick had left for Bludhaven, leaving only Bruce and Barbara in mutual need of someone.

I took that scene in MOTB as Bruce being uncomfortable with Barbara's obvious crush on him, not that they were having a relationship at the moment. Maybe Bruce "used" her as a date (like in Batman Adventures) for some uncover assignment and Barbara took it for more than it was.

Or maybe he felt uncomfortable putting the moves on her in front of Tim and Alfred:anime: You never know

[James]

I think Barbara and Bruce got together after JLU and after Tim left. Batman quits the JLU or stops associating with them for a time, perhaps Alfred gets sick, Dick had left for Bludhaven, leaving only Bruce and Barbara in mutual need of someone.

I took that scene in MOTB as Bruce being uncomfortable with Barbara's obvious crush on him, not that they were having a relationship at the moment. Maybe Bruce "used" her as a date (like in Batman Adventures) for some uncover assignment and Barbara took it for more than it was.

I like that. It's more in character than some one night stand gone bad. At the same time, any "mistake" that lead to Barbara's interest could be the background to Bruce's explanation to Diana as to why he doesn't like relationships with co-heroes.

On the actual Bruce/Barb relationship, I agree - whatever happened in the MOTB, I don't think it started as a proper relationship (the sort that would create OTTP's reference to 'love') around or slightly after ROTJ, which would fit with Bruce's interest in Diana. I can't see even Bruce having a serious relationship with Barb while being also interested in Diana, which would have to be the case if one assumes there was a relationship around MOTB (which looks like is set in JL season 2).

[Wingmuffin]

I definitely see their relationship as a "There's no one left but us now" thing.

Perhaps it was after Jim Gordon died. I just don't see Bruce considering any kind of relationship with Barbara while Jim is still in the picture.

[James]

I definitely see their relationship as a "There's no one left but us now" thing.

Perhaps it was after Jim Gordon died. I just don't see Bruce considering any kind of relationship with Barbara while Jim is still in the picture.

Not necessarily. Don't forget, if we're looking at a proper relationship blossoming around ROTJ, that's right at the end of the "present" period of JLU. By all logic reasoning, If there is at least a three year gap between TNBA and JLU, and a few years for TNBA, she's at least in her mid twenties and perfectly in a position to choose who she wants to be with without being manipulated. I think by 25 Jim would be letting her see who she likes! :)

As for the "there's no one left but us now..", I disagree. Bruce's interest in OTTP seemed far deeper than a relationship of convienience, and Barb has proved in MOTB she has something for Bruce. I would say extreme emotions brought the barriers down, or simply long term exposure to each other. The former would imply the catalyst was Drake's ROTJ incident, and the latter would be simply a growth in friendship. Afterall, Bruce can't recouncile criminal behaviour in his ladies, he needs someone who understands him, who can accept his mission and stands for what he does. That's Barbara. In some ways, she's an obvious choice. Of course even the obvious and most perfect choice doesn't mean perfect harmony. Eventually one of your loves has to give, be it the lady or the Bat..

[Gpoliceman]

Now that I've seen "Destroyer", I would say the only loose end from the DCAU was the apparant attraction between Batman and Wonder Woman.

Did we need more of it?

I say "no, we didn't". First, I don't think Batman and WW's romance ever went any further than a mutual respect and basic physical attraction for each other. Likewise, I think throughout the DCAU, we were given enough examples of failed romances for Bruce Wayne to assume that Bruce/Diana just never really "took flight" together, as a couple.

By the time we get to the lonely, 80 year old Bruce in Batman Beyond, it's not presumptuous to conclude that Diana was probably just a crush, or a quick fling, but nothing compared to Andrea, Barbara, or Selina.

Andrea was his first love.

Barbara and Selina would be his two very serious relationships (although his relationship with Barbara was never on-screen, only mentioned in BB).

Lois would come in fourth, though I would think Bruce would put her to the back of his mind since she did end up becoming Superman's soulmate. It would be kinda weird of him to be day-dreaming about her. It would be like harboring a crush for your brother's wife.

Talia would come in fifth place, but since she's kinda evil, it didn't work.

Diana and Zatanna would rank last, as two chicks Bruce just dated, but never really got involved with.

That's what I would assume now that the DCAU is over.

Greg

[Cortez2301]

Now that I've seen "Destroyer", I would say the only loose end from the DCAU was the apparant attraction between Batman and Wonder Woman.

Did we need more of it?

I say "no, we didn't". First, I don't think Batman and WW's romance ever went any further than a mutual respect and basic physical attraction for each other. Likewise, I think throughout the DCAU, we were given enough examples of failed romances for Bruce Wayne to assume that Bruce/Diana just never really "took flight" together, as a couple.

By the time we get to the lonely, 80 year old Bruce in Batman Beyond, it's not presumptuous to conclude that Diana was probably just a crush, or a quick fling, but nothing compared to Andrea, Barbara, or Selina.

Andrea was his first love.

Barbara and Selina would be his two very serious relationships (although his relationship with Barbara was never on-screen, only mentioned in BB).

Lois would come in fourth, though I would think Bruce would put her to the back of his mind since she did end up becoming Superman's soulmate. It would be kinda weird of him to be day-dreaming about her. It would be like harboring a crush for your brother's wife.

Talia would come in fifth place, but since she's kinda evil, it didn't work.

Diana and Zatanna would rank last, as two chicks Bruce just dated, but never really got involved with.

That's what I would assume now that the DCAU is over.

GregTotally agree.

[Joker1238]

Giganta and the Flash lol. Best couple in the DCUA lol.

[RAINMAN]

I definitely see their relationship as a "There's no one left but us now" thing.

Perhaps it was after Jim Gordon died. I just don't see Bruce considering any kind of relationship with Barbara while Jim is still in the picture.



I don`t see him considerong any relationship whit her at all. I think people may have took what they heard or saw in BB and MOTBW out of contents. :sweat:

[Arsenal]

All the things Gpoliceman said, which were thoughtful and merit response. But I won't repeat them to save space.

I contemplated the thought of giving Batman his own "top ten" list, but it has not happened yet. The DCAU Batman is an extreme commitment-phobe and the biggest tease in the watchtower.

To prove my point I will ask a simple question: Can you name a single episode where Bruce was clearly in a relationship in the beginning and at the end? Was there ever a time when Bruce did not break up with the woman by the end of the plotline?

Bruce's relationships can be divided into three categories. The first are flirtations that implied much but supplied little. The women that fall in this category are Talia, Selina, Zatanna and Wonder Woman.

We, as fans, would like to believe that Zatanna, Talia, Selina or Diana meant something to Bruce; or he was merely avoiding them because he thought the relationship would be unsuccessful (or worse, destructive). But with all four women--what do we see? A kiss. A tease. A wink, maybe an implication of a night of passion. But could any women be correctly referred to as *gasp* his girlfriend. No.

The closest we get is when Tiny John tells Bruce that his "girlfriend (Diana) sure is bossy." And Bruce answers, "She's not my girlfriend."

I would make the unpopular suggestion Zatanna, Catwoman, Talia and Wonder Woman are no more than "what could have beens" and "ones that got away." They cannot even be considered as exes.

The next category are "arc" girlfriends. These are women he dated for an episode (or three-part episode, in one case); but then never are considered in a romantic context again. Lois Lane, that plant woman he married (whose name I refuse to learn), Kathy Duquesne and the revered Andrea Beaumont are in this category.

These women all date Bruce for a short time, and he seemed genuinely hopeful at the prospect of each relationship for a short time. But then it fell apart because he had to be a masked vigilante (or because the woman was floral, in one case.) It should be noted that all of these girlfriends (and they were girlfriends) had no direct connection to the superhero business. Well, except for the plant woman, but she was a plot idea... not a character. The implication is Bruce cannot or will not date villains (reasonable enough) or heroes.

The one exception is our final category: esoteric offscreen couplings that we know next to nothing about. There is only one women in this category: Barbara.

One might assume that Barbara would easily fall into the first list. Superwomen he flirts with, but will not commit to because dating at the office is a mess. But obviously he broke this rule for her. It is difficult to ascertain why because we never see Barbara and Bruce as a couple. Not in a flashback--no, nada, niente. We don't even hear stories recounted by other parties to hear what they were like as a couple.

Yes, dating Barbara would be out of character for Bruce. Not because Dick dated her. Dick left for another city. He abandoned both Bruce and Barbara. He might have even died for all we know. And I must stress, we don't know. The only thing we know for certain is that they dated and broke up. Dating Barbara is out of character for Bruce, because Bruce does not date heroes--no exceptions, except for Barbara.

Unfortunately, we will likely never learn why Bruce broke this rule because the creative team decided not to dig into it. This leaves a big question hanging over Bruce. Why would he date his best friend's daughter, his adopted son's first love and a woman that he was realistically putting in danger by loving? What would make Bruce willing to break the vow of loneliness he imposed on himself after Andrea Beaumont?

My problem with this silence is this: Barbara could have been played as the love of Bruce's life. She was one of the few women who could be with both sides of the man, who he didn't have to lie to. But there were also some humongous barriers to this relationship. It could have been riveting drama to watch this couple struggle and eventually fail; but instead we got nothing.

How's that for the one that got away?

[James]

I don`t see him considerong any relationship whit her at all. I think people may have took what they heard or saw in BB and MOTBW out of contents. :sweat:

How can you say it was out of context? Barbara confirms it in ToC, Bruce confirms it in OOTP and MOTB makes reference to it. You are the guy trying to remove what the rest of fandom - albeit grudgingly - accepts.

Was it out of character? Nope. I don't buy that at all. If we take the assumption it happened post JLU finale, Barbara is in her twenties and an independent adult. Bruce has few people he is close to. The share the same ideology. Things happen. Believe it or not guys, people do date with ten year age gaps, especially when they get out of their teens.

It would only be out of character if Bruce and Barbara lived happily ever after. That WOULD be out of character as no one is compatible to the Batman - and vise versa! :)

[HaagenDas]

Talia didnt seem too interested in Bruce in her debut into Batman:Beyond from what I remember. I could be wrong tho, it was a while back. If there romance really was worth it, she would still look at him with admiration in the slightest...like how Wonder Woman looked at Steve Trevor when she returned to the present.

Zatanna and Bats is a power couple I think. They have a strong bond to this day.

Jim Gordon would have been honored to have Bruce as Barbara's husband...if he knew Bruce really was Batman. Then again, he may have been weary because he wouldnt want Barbara to be lonely in case Batman got KIA.

I would have thought the Wonder Woman romance with Bruce would have been perfect. She has been described as to seeing Superman and Batman as the ultimate examples of what men should be. Wonder Woman really has a low opinion of men in general, save those two. She really gets turned on by regular guys giving it their all, like Steve Trevor. Bruce Wayne of course is the epitomy of this.

Terry McGinness' parents, though divorced, still cared for one another. I wonder how his dad would have reacted if he realized Terry and Terry's brother werent really his sons.

A corny romance that would have been mentioned: Braniac 5 and Supergirl. A lot of people thought it was a bit forced. I mean electing to leave the present to be with a guy she barely knew?

[The Guitar Slayer]

It's funny. My friend Bud'n'Lou were playing "Marry, Shag, or Push off a Cliff" with the JLU cast. For those not familiar, you name a show, a fandom, a movie, book, etc., and then decided who you would do each of the above to.
Bruce/Batman came up every time in the "shag" department, but never the "marry" department. By JLU, he just won't settle down for anyone. He knows it, but he's still trying to go through the motions of maintaining a normal life and Batman. He was trying to stay human, and Barbara was probably a part of that. She never had a chance because Batman always won over Bruce by that time. As the DCAU has gone on from MotP and BTAS, Bruce has become less and less while Batman has become the overriding personality. You see that from his parties in BTAS, which he genuinely enjoys, and then going to Batman Beyond when he refers to himself as Batman in his subconscious.

That said, there was a time when Bruce probably could have settled down. Zantana was more of a high school girlfriend; I never saw her as a major presence in his life beyond being a flirt or a short term thing. Andrea Beaumont has come the closest to killing Batman in more ways than one. She nearly married Bruce, which would have brought an end to Batman's career. He was ready to give his mission up for her. Then she is revealed to be a murderer. End of that.

Selina Kyle was also a person who came into Bruce's life while he was still Bruce AND Batman. She's his equal in the business world, she's smart, and she's Catwoman, who's given him a damn good run for his money some nights. This is a relationship that coulda, shoulda, woulda, but didn't.

Talia had one big weakness -- an Electra complex. End of story, Bruce knew he never had a chance competing for her with her father. He may have thought she was hot and tried to start a relationship outside of procreating a master race for her father, but never had a chance. Ever.

Anyone that came after that never really had a prayer. They were either bubbleheads or came after Batman took over. The exceptions was Susan the plant lady, who truly didn't earn his affections.

Lois, who's such a spitfire, likely reminded him as a combo of Selina and Andrea....not to mention he knew it would piss off Clark. However, she's a reporter. He knows that this kind of thing doesn't work out-- big secrets and reporters don't mix. She never had a chance either.

Bruce probably really, really tried for Barbara, since she was his partner and friend, and I think he did love her on some level... but I think he was too far gone into Batman to love her the same way Andrea and Selina may have been loved; Bruce was no longer the main man. Despite all efforts on both sides, Bruce and Barbara never had a chance due to the looming shadow of the Bat.


Ok, so moving on...

Top Ten, in no particular order other than what pops into my head first.

-- Bruce and Andrea -- reasons above

-- Bruce and Selina -- reasons above

-- John and Shayera -- "love is a battlefield." Plus Warhawk pops out of somewhere.

-- Black Canary and Green Arrow -- amazingly functional despite being costumed heroes.

-- Question and Huntress -- reminds me sort of Doctor Who and one of his companions, oddly.

-- Joker and Harley -- the relationship from hell. We've all seen ones like this.

-- Terry and Dana -- the only one that we know worked out completely happily.

-- Barbara and Dick -- the one that should have worked out, but didn't.

-- Harvey Dent and Grace -- I can't believe no one remembers this one....

-- Victor Fries and Nora -- ...or this one. If I were to rank, this would be #1.

[Bones Justice]

3. Superman/ Lois Lane. This will drop on the list if Lois NEVER finds out. Crazily I'm almost hoping for JLU season three to disappoint us and have the revelation come out of nowhere in Superman: Strange Allies.


I took it as she already knows. Clark and Lois are in a relationship, maybe even married. How else do you explain Ma and Pa Kent at Superman's funeral in Hereafter? They are definitely there with Lois, not Clark. In a later episode, we see Lois and Superman having lunch together so they are at least an item. Obviously, Lois and Superman can't have a public relationship so it must be Lois and Clark that are together.

Besides, I can't believe that Lois could get that "close" to Superman without knowing it's really Clark. She can be stupid at times, but she's not that stupid.

[HaagenDas]

I took it as she already knows. Clark and Lois are in a relationship, maybe even married. How else do you explain Ma and Pa Kent at Superman's funeral in Hereafter? They are definitely there with Lois, not Clark. In a later episode, we see Lois and Superman having lunch together so they are at least an item. Obviously, Lois and Superman can't have a public relationship so it must be Lois and Clark that are together.

Besides, I can't believe that Lois could get that "close" to Superman without knowing it's really Clark. She can be stupid at times, but she's not that stupid.

That makes no sense though. In the last scene of the episode where Braniac/Luthor was destroyed, Lois is seen writing an article on Superman and telling Clark Kent about it. She wasnt conversing with him as if she knew.

[The Guitar Slayer]

Besides, I can't believe that Lois could get that "close" to Superman without knowing it's really Clark. She can be stupid at times, but she's not that stupid.

In any fiction or fantasy, one must have suspension of disbelief or else it doesn't work. Lois is sharp, but I've noticed that a lot of continuity and storylines in comics, TV series, and other media get bogged down when she knows. It's better if she doesn't. Anyway, as for the funeral, Clark was MIA during that time period, and he was Lois' friend and Superman's friend. The Kents would be there for their missing/dead son and his friend, whose lost two people very close to her.

[The Weed Of Cri]

and where is shining knight and vigilante?

Never mind them, what about Fire and Ice? They're always together when they're not on a mission, just like S.K. and Vig. They even had what looked like a two-girl pool party in "Destroyer". I've been thinking about this a lot lately (I need a second job) and, being a red-blooded het male, the idea of a brokeback relationship between two male heroes just makes me go EEEEEEWWWWWWW, but the thought of two superchicks together just.......................................................................................


Okay, I'll stop now.

[Bones Justice]

That makes no sense though. In the last scene of the episode where Braniac/Luthor was destroyed, Lois is seen writing an article on Superman and telling Clark Kent about it. She wasnt conversing with him as if she knew.

Maybe. I thought the way she spoke to him, she did know. They were in public so she's not going to give anything away but she gave that subtle "you know what I mean".



In any fiction or fantasy, one must have suspension of disbelief or else it doesn't work. Lois is sharp, but I've noticed that a lot of continuity and storylines in comics, TV series, and other media get bogged down when she knows. It's better if she doesn't.


Actually, I think it's generally irrelevant in Justice League if she knows. Think about it -- what stories would have to be changed if it were conclusive that she did know? Or even if they were married? In fact, none of the stories would have to be changed at all. Superman's private life wasn't a subplot for any of the episodes except maybe Hereafter. Even in that episode, they didn't show the impact of Clark Kent being missing.

So maybe she did know, maybe she didn't. I don't really feel like it's conclusive either way. But I thought the evidence leaned towards that she knew.



Anyway, as for the funeral, Clark was MIA during that time period, and he was Lois' friend and Superman's friend. The Kents would be there for their missing/dead son and his friend, whose lost two people very close to her.


I dunno, the funeral was specifically for Superman. Plus, it seemed to be very "members only", if you know what I mean. I'm not really sure how it would have worked out but I don't see Lois inviting them unless they were family.

[James]

I dunno, the funeral was specifically for Superman. Plus, it seemed to be very "members only", if you know what I mean. I'm not really sure how it would have worked out but I don't see Lois inviting them unless they were family.

I think you are reading far much into it. They were there for the audiences sake. If Lois did know I think the series would make such a major shift clear. Superman was a close friend of Clark's and thereby logically, they'd probably know Superman. That would justify the Kent's being there - and that's before you get to the issue of Kara who is also there.

As for Lois, she's not sitting with the Kents. If we were looking at her being linked to that family for the funeral it seems more likely she'd be sitting with them than the Daily Planet lot.

[HaagenDas]

[quote=Bones Justice]Maybe. I thought the way she spoke to him, she did know. They were in public so she's not going to give anything away but she gave that subtle "you know what I mean".
[quote]
I guess we just disagree here. She was very intimate with Superman in the episode where Captain Atom and Superman confront each other at Cadmus HQ. She seemed indifferent to Clark in that speech. The "you know what I mean" was in reference to her calling Superman a human when he is really a Kryptonian. It was only significant to him, because he for practical matters does consider himself a human emotionally. Also they werent in public...they were both staying late alone.

[BlueRocketBoy]

In "Question Authority", Lois tells Superman she hasn't seen him around in a while, and he replies that he's been busy. I assume Lois still sees Clark Kent every day at the Daily Planet, so I don't buy that he's revealed his big secret and they're just talking in "code" as he flies her through the air.

[HarleyQuinn]

Ones I suport.

Batman/Catwomen
Hawlgirl/Green L
Harley/ Joker
Superman/ Louis
Bruce/ Barbra

[Trevor Balena]

Superman/ Louis
Whoa! Is there something you know that I don't? ;)

[Bones Justice]

I think you are reading far much into it. They were there for the audiences sake.

You are probably right but I've never cared too much for that argument, ie. "it's just a television show". You could use it to prove or discount just about anything.



If Lois did know I think the series would make such a major shift clear.


I still disagree with this, though. I don't see how anything would be different. I suppose they could have shown Lois and Superman truly together but in general, it wouldn't change any of the episodes. The few times we saw Clark in the series, he was in "reporter" mode only.



Superman was a close friend of Clark's and thereby logically, they'd probably know Superman. That would justify the Kent's being there - and that's before you get to the issue of Kara who is also there.

As for Lois, she's not sitting with the Kents. If we were looking at her being linked to that family for the funeral it seems more likely she'd be sitting with them than the Daily Planet lot.

Okay, that's an argument I can get behind. Admittedly, I haven't seen the episode in some time and I have no reason to doubt you. That would be enough to convince me.



I guess we just disagree here. She was very intimate with Superman in the episode where Captain Atom and Superman confront each other at Cadmus HQ.

Are you referring to their picnic on top of the bridge? Or something else? Because, if you referring to the former, so was I. I don't remember them being intimate any other time but my memory is far from perfect.



The "you know what I mean" was in reference to her calling Superman a human when he is really a Kryptonian. It was only significant to him, because he for practical matters does consider himself a human emotionally. Also they werent in public...they were both staying late alone.

Again, I don't have any reason to doubt you. I just don't remember it that way. I just recall that they were both in the office together, not that they were alone. I suppose if they were, then what you say makes sense. James' secondary argument was what really convinced me, though.

[RAINMAN]

How can you say it was out of context? Barbara confirms it in ToC, Bruce confirms it in OOTP and MOTB makes reference to it. You are the guy trying to remove what the rest of fandom - albeit grudgingly - accepts.

Was it out of character? Nope. I don't buy that at all. If we take the assumption it happened post JLU finale, Barbara is in her twenties and an independent adult. Bruce has few people he is close to. The share the same ideology. Things happen. Believe it or not guys, people do date with ten year age gaps, especially when they get out of their teens.

It would only be out of character if Bruce and Barbara lived happily ever after. That WOULD be out of character as no one is compatible to the Batman - and vise versa! :)



Good point. Maybe I`m am just stubbon or perfer to think for myself. However, I`m only stateing my opinion not forceing it.

[Kraven]

I'm all for Bruce and Andrea Beaumont, but not Bruce and Lois. (And don't pull that they-have-the-same-voice card.)

-Kraven

[Aldrius]

But they have the same voice- er...

They have the same... outfit? Actually, I think Lois and Andrea have similar energy. They're both fun, they both bully their er... romantic counterparts. (Atleast when they first meet, Andrea teases Bruce.) And they're both sortof scatter-brained.

My favourite DCAU couple is Andrea/Bruce. I think she spoiled him, I think she's why he can never truly be with another woman.

My second is Green Lantern and Shayera.

Other than that... I don't really like any DCAU couples. Huntress and Black Canary bother me... The Joker is incapable of real love...


...the picture in Out of the Past is clearly Andrea. The two identical models is either the character designer being lazy, or the over-seas animators being confused. Though they look identical it makes no sense for him to have two pictures of the same woman. Plus, the second one's facial features were SLIGHTLY different. (She had a little more nose.) Plus, MotP basically says 'if he could have any woman, it would be this woman.' So why WOULDN'T her picture be there?

That's all I have to say about that, though. :P

[Trevor Balena]

...the picture in Out of the Past is clearly Andrea. The two identical models is either the character designer being lazy, or the over-seas animators being confused. Though they look identical it makes no sense for him to have two pictures of the same woman. Plus, the second one's facial features were SLIGHTLY different. (She had a little more nose.) Plus, MotP basically says 'if he could have any woman, it would be this woman.' So why WOULDN'T her picture be there?
Because she became a murdered, betraying everything Batman stood for? I can easily see him never wanting to be reminded of her again, though it would also be in character for him to go in the direction you described.

[Aldrius]

I think his love for Andrea is stronger than his ideals... he obviously doesn't want to believe she really means what she's doing. Remember 'Hearts and Minds' as Hawkgirl says, we remember people as we knew them best. The picture in Out of the Past is obviously from the flashbacks in MotP.

Why wouldn't he want to remember her? o_O

[HaagenDas]

I think his love for Andrea is stronger than his ideals... he obviously doesn't want to believe she really means what she's doing. Remember 'Hearts and Minds' as Hawkgirl says, we remember people as we knew them best. The picture in Out of the Past is obviously from the flashbacks in MotP.

Why wouldn't he want to remember her? o_OI actually disagree with that statement. Not talking about good friendships here, but people tend to remember acquaintances at their WORST. Of course Andrea was more than an acquaintance for Bruce. Definitely the woman who messed with his head.

[Aldrius]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/Aldrius/AndreaBeaumont.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/Aldrius/BarbaraorAndrea2.jpg

Bah, that looks like the same woman to me.

Anyway.

I actually disagree with that statement. Not talking about good friendships here, but people tend to remember acquaintances at their WORST. Of course Andrea was more than an acquaintance for Bruce. Definitely the woman who messed with his head.


Nononono. When we KNEW them best. Not AT their best. Say you knew someone for a year. Really closely. Like, you were the best of friends.Then you spend ten years apart. They come back, and you see eachother around once and a while. No matter how much they've changed, you still see them as the person they were ten years ago.

That was my point. If he ever sees Andrea again, he's going to remember her as his fiance, not as his adversary, the Phantasm.