Hawkman: Is Anyone Else Confussed?

[DerekPowers]

Okay people, Im confussed by some of the stuff in "Shadow of the Hawk".

First of all, How did Carter Hol get wings?

Did he have them all along? If so, how in the hell did he hid them under his shirt (and as some have specualted, if he and hg did do the nasty the night before, wouldnt she have noticed them?)

If they are real, does that mean he's thanagarian?

If theyre not real, whered they come from?

How can he fly? His wings did flap when he flew too.

Why didnt Shayera seem surprised that he had wings and could fly? wouldnt that make his story more credible? but apparently, Shayera still saw him as a merely a geeky "stalker", even AFTER he flies.

If Shayera was convinced that it was that ancient device that put the idea of him being the reincarnation of the ancient hawkman, then was she also convinced that it was that same device that gave him wings and the ability to fly?

Why is Shayera's name the same as it was in here ancient past life?

As far as i could tell when he takes off his shirt in the tomb, he ALREADY has wings. He isnt putting them on. What we see him put on are those straps that he wears in place of a shirt. If you watch it in slow mo, you can see the wings dont move, even as he is putting on those straps.

Any ideas? I'm chalking it up to sloppy writing, no offense to anyone, but if there is something i missed, please, tell me, because the shakeness of that part of the story really detracts from the episode, imo. peace.

[Crimson]

This doesn't answer most of your questions, but the wings seem to definitely be strap-ons; no visible wings here:

http://home.comcast.net/~crimson621/Forums/NoWings.jpg

[Hero Supreme]

Okay people, Im confussed by some of the stuff in "Shadow of the Hawk".

First of all, How did Carter Hol get wings?

Did he have them all along? If so, how in the hell did he hid them under his shirt (and as some have specualted, if he and hg did do the nasty the night before, wouldnt she have noticed them?)

If they are real, does that mean he's thanagarian?

If theyre not real, whered they come from?

How can he fly? His wings did flap when he flew too.

Why didnt Shayera seem surprised that he had wings and could fly? wouldnt that make his story more credible? but apparently, Shayera still saw him as a merely a geeky "stalker", even AFTER he flies.

If Shayera was convinced that it was that ancient device that put the idea of him being the reincarnation of the ancient hawkman, then was she also convinced that it was that same device that gave him wings and the ability to fly?

Why is Shayera's name the same as it was in here ancient past life?

As far as i could tell when he takes off his shirt in the tomb, he ALREADY has wings. He isnt putting them on. What we see him put on are those straps that he wears in place of a shirt. If you watch it in slow mo, you can see the wings dont move, even as he is putting on those straps.

Any ideas? I'm chalking it up to sloppy writing, no offense to anyone, but if there is something i missed, please, tell me, because the shakeness of that part of the story really detracts from the episode, imo. peace.
from dwayne himself:

People keep asking, so here you go...

Thanagarian Cheat Sheet:

Shayera's wings are organic, like all modern-day Thanagarians she was born with them.

Carter Hall is Human, his wings strap on, he learned how to make them from the Thanagarian tech in the tomb he was studying. Not explained on the show (but according to Bruce Timm) Thanagarians used to make their wings, only in the past several hundred years have they genetically engineered themselves to grow organic wings.

The pre-Egyptian history era Katar and Shayera Hol had artificial wings, they lived thousands of years before Thanagarians genetically engineered themselves to have organic wings.

Warhawk (Rex Stewart, future son of Shayera Hol and John Stewart) was born without wings, this is as a result of his half-Human heritage. Warhawk's wings are artificial. Shayera and a Thanagarian male would produce organically-winged offspring, like any other Thanagarian couple.

Oh, and in my opinion, on Thanagar "Shayera Hol" is about as common a name as "John Smith."

[J-Ranger]

Okay people, Im confussed by some of the stuff in "Shadow of the Hawk".

First of all, How did Carter Hol get wings?

Did he have them all along? If so, how in the hell did he hid them under his shirt (and as some have specualted, if he and hg did do the nasty the night before, wouldnt she have noticed them?)

If they are real, does that mean he's thanagarian?

If theyre not real, whered they come from?

How can he fly? His wings did flap when he flew too.

Why didnt Shayera seem surprised that he had wings and could fly? wouldnt that make his story more credible? but apparently, Shayera still saw him as a merely a geeky "stalker", even AFTER he flies.

If Shayera was convinced that it was that ancient device that put the idea of him being the reincarnation of the ancient hawkman, then was she also convinced that it was that same device that gave him wings and the ability to fly?

Why is Shayera's name the same as it was in here ancient past life?

As far as i could tell when he takes off his shirt in the tomb, he ALREADY has wings. He isnt putting them on. What we see him put on are those straps that he wears in place of a shirt. If you watch it in slow mo, you can see the wings dont move, even as he is putting on those straps.

Any ideas? I'm chalking it up to sloppy writing, no offense to anyone, but if there is something i missed, please, tell me, because the shakeness of that part of the story really detracts from the episode, imo. peace.
He found all his stuff within the ship. Hawkman utilizes Nth Metal as a component of his wings and boots, which enable him to fly at terrific speeds and with great agility. The metal also allows its user to lift incredible weights and to withstand temperature extremes. The Nth Metal has several other properties that Carter has yet to tap into.

He is human and the wings are apart of the armour, he was not hiding them under his shirt. Shayera's name is not the same as the past life version, it is similar like Carter's. They are reincarnations of Kator Hol and Chay-Ara.

As you can see here, his bare back is there with no wings

http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/255/justiceleagueunlimited302shado.jpg

And here is he clearly putting on the wings

http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/6600/justiceleagueunlimited302shado1.jpg
http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/2424/justiceleagueunlimited302shado2.jpg

[Justice Lords]

So he has strapon on wings then how can they flap and provide flight?

[FALLEN ELDOR]

he controls them mentally with (or without?) the helmet. It depends on the writer.

[adoptedBatpuppy]

from dwayne himself:

People keep asking, so here you go...

Thanagarian Cheat Sheet:

Shayera's wings are organic, like all modern-day Thanagarians she was born with them.

Carter Hall is Human, his wings strap on, he learned how to make them from the Thanagarian tech in the tomb he was studying. Not explained on the show (but according to Bruce Timm) Thanagarians used to make their wings, only in the past several hundred years have they genetically engineered themselves to grow organic wings.

The pre-Egyptian history era Katar and Shayera Hol had artificial wings, they lived thousands of years before Thanagarians genetically engineered themselves to have organic wings.

Warhawk (Rex Stewart, future son of Shayera Hol and John Stewart) was born without wings, this is as a result of his half-Human heritage. Warhawk's wings are artificial. Shayera and a Thanagarian male would produce organically-winged offspring, like any other Thanagarian couple.

Oh, and in my opinion, on Thanagar "Shayera Hol" is about as common a name as "John Smith."

Seems like a good answer to you question! I'm buying it! :)

[J-Ranger]

So he has strapon on wings then how can they flap and provide flight?I just said it in the previous post...


Hawkman utilizes Nth Metal as a component of his wings and boots, which enable him to fly at terrific speeds and with great agility. The metal also allows its user to lift incredible weights and to withstand temperature extremes.

[Style]

Okay, I think it's time people should brush up on their Hawkmen, the different versions, and how it comes together, Courtesy of Scott Tipton's Comics 101.

Start here (http://www.moviepoopshoot.com/comics101/66.html), then continue here (http://www.moviepoopshoot.com/comics101/67.html), then conclude here (http://www.moviepoopshoot.com/comics101/68.html).

The short version? DCAU Hawkman is a unique fusion of Earth 1/Silver age Hawkman with Earth 2/Golden age Hawkman, with particular emphasis on Earth 2 Hawkman. That version had nothing to do with Thanagar, and really was a reincarnated Egyptian prince, who made his own wings.

Which is why I think ultimately DCAU Hawkman isn't delusional like so many people here just assume, but is the real deal, a reincarnation.

[Bleu Unicorn]

Which is why I think ultimately DCAU Hawkman isn't delusional like so many people here just assume, but is the real deal, a reincarnation.
I'm inclined to agree.

[Justice Lords]

I just said it in the previous post...Missed that, but it doesn't explain the flapping like a normal Thanagarian.

[killbot]

How very cool of Mr. McDuffie to supply a little extra info. THANKS DUDE!! Now how 'bout telling us if Shayera and Carter bumped uglies.;)

[sdp]

Okay, I think it's time people should brush up on their Hawkmen, the different versions, and how it comes together, Courtesy of Scott Tipton's Comics 101.

Start here (http://www.moviepoopshoot.com/comics101/66.html), then continue here (http://www.moviepoopshoot.com/comics101/67.html), then conclude here (http://www.moviepoopshoot.com/comics101/68.html).

The short version? DCAU Hawkman is a unique fusion of Earth 1/Silver age Hawkman with Earth 2/Golden age Hawkman, with particular emphasis on Earth 2 Hawkman. That version had nothing to do with Thanagar, and really was a reincarnated Egyptian prince, who made his own wings.

Which is why I think ultimately DCAU Hawkman isn't delusional like so many people here just assume, but is the real deal, a reincarnation.

that is what i got a nod to the original origins of hawkman,

it probably went something like this:


Timm:I was thinking about hawkgirl...I don't feel we captured the essence of the comics..

dwayne: I know what you mean...we just made it so simple and easy to understand and stuck to a single story

Timm: I thought making warhawk her son would complicate the origins but it still not compares to the comics...

dwayne: wait! timm! what if we add Hawkman and give him a different origin, that will get us closer!

Timm; you are right, it is the least we can do to have them remain true to their comic counterparts.

[Anime]

After Hro Talek, I didn't think they were going to do Hawkman. What was the point of Hro in the first place? Now, Shayera has another lover?! Daaaaang! I still wonder why Hawkman when we already have Hro...

[Gorthaur]

I hope he is just a nutcase. The comic Hawkpeople with their myriad conflicting origins are beyond convoluted, and heck, even if it is just a case of implanted memories, it still works as a reincarnation of sorts.

[El Zorro]

I hope he is just a nutcase.
I really doubt they would go that way with it. The reincarnation aspect is part of the original (Golden-Age) Hawkman's origin. I don't think you should judge what they're doing on JLU by what has been mishandled in the comics. I think this is a rather elegant way of melding the Golden and Silver Age Hawks together. As usual the DCAU guys have done a fine job of simplifying and maintaining the essentials of the character.

[RickWJ324]

I have to admit... I'm not a Hawkman/Hawkgirl/Hawkworld reader. I'm a huge DC nut and collect almost every DC comic (Hawkman has never been one of them though).
I believe most of the posts here covered the info pretty well. In the COMICS, I don't believe Hawkman, Hawkgirl, or Hawkwoman have "real" wings.... they are all made of Nth metal. I know there have been MANY origins over the years, but I believe now (for the most part at least) they are sticking with the reincarnation origin. The 2 hawks that crashed in Egypt were Prince Khufu and Chay-Ara. After exposure to the mysterious Nth metal, the vehicle's anti-gravity alloy, Khufu and Chay-ara were murdered by a sorceror named Hath-Set. The Nth metal initiated a cycle of reincarnation that would see Khufu and Chay-Ara reborn countless times throughout the ages.
The current Hawkgirl is Kendra Saunders. Hawkwoman is Shayera Thol and she is on Thanagar. Kendra was a teen who committed suicide and her body was inhabited by Chay-Ara. Kendra is the grandniece of Sheira Saunders, the Golden Age Hawkgirl and uses Sheira's wings. From what I gather, she doesn't have memories of being the reincarnation of previous Hawkgirls.
I remember one of the several relaunches of Hawkman titles in the early 90's that was basically several versions of Hawkman merged into a "Hawk God". I think it was with the latest (current Hawkman) incarnation that they established the "reincarnation" explanation to try and clean this mess up a bit.

As for Shayera having real wings in the cartoon, I believe this was one of the liberties that they took when creating the character. Personally I like this better than the idea of "strap ons"! That just seems a little silly to me.

Most of this info comes from the DC Encyclopedia. Hope this helps.

--RickWJ324

[A.J]

I'm inclined to agree.
So do I. The final shot of the episode with the 2 mommies holding each other´s hands proves it. Hawkman is right.

Now,I dont know if our Shayera is a reincarnation of Chay-Ara or not. What if there is a Kendra Saunders out there in our DCAU??? :confused:

[Sue]

That would be cool. I suppose Kendra could appear as herself, but unless Shayera dies and someone steps up to replace her, I don't see her getting any wings.

[DerekPowers]

Thanks guys, that answers most my questions.

Its too bad these things werent made clear in the show, because it definately detracted from my enjoyment of it, while watching and after.

I should probably re-watch my tape (although i watched the ep 3 times), but i swear when he is putting on those straps, that the wings arent moving at all, and it appears the wings are not attached to them.

I must have missed the shot of his back, so that probably would have helped.

So, now, how does he fly? Do the wings and wing technology from Thanagar give the ability of flight? Or do thanagarians fly like Superman, w/out wings (which might explain a lot of the non-flapping HG moments), and if so, how doest Catar fly?

Anyway, thanks again. It would have helped a lot if they had said in the show that he built the wings using the technology he uncovered in the tomb. I cant understand why they WOULDNT add that in, because all i kept thinking was it was a plot hole or sloppy writting, and ultimately, a weaker episode for it.

anyway, thanks again. peace.

[Singularity]

So, now, how does he fly? Do the wings and wing technology from Thanagar give the ability of flight? Or do thanagarians fly like Superman, w/out wings (which might explain a lot of the non-flapping HG moments), and if so, how doest Catar fly?
Thangarians in the cartoon have natural wings. Carter Hall and the comic Thangarians use Nth metal, which responds to mental state and defies the four interactions of nature, including gravity.