TMNT Talkback: Ep. 4.02: "The People's Choice" (Spoilers)

[Ian]

http://library.toonzone.net/talkbacks/4kids2.jpghttp://library.toonzone.net/talkbacks/tmnt.jpg

If the talkback seems a bit too early today, it’s because I had to go to a friend’s house. So, here it is.

Episode 4.02: The People’s Choice

Original Airdate: September 17, 2005

Written by Baz Hawkins

It’s that time of the year again: Election Day. However, instead of your John Kerrys, your Teddy Roosevelts or your Richard Hatches, here we have two warrior women from outer space (home of blasters, teleporters, and strange skin colors) vying to become rulers of…wherever—the checkout counter at Wal-Mart (may they never sue). Their method of choosing, however, is quite different from ours; instead of all that campaigning and slandering and voting, they use the much simpler (and less boring) method of the Ritual Death Match. Face it Straight! Go for broke! Oh, and there’s turtles, too.

Talky!

[CyberCubed]

The preview leads me to believe that this episode is based off TMNT #13 from Volume 1.

http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume01/13/13cover.jpg

If I'm correct, this should be a pretty decent stand alone episode. If you wanna get a head start and read the comic version, the official site has a synopsis:

http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume01/13/13.htm

[AdamYJ]

I think I'm going to have to miss this one tomorrow. I have to work tomorrow morning and I can only tape one channel because of the digital cable. There's more stuff I want to check out on Kids' WB.

[Duke]

Caught the new intro (missed last week due to Pokémon).

I think I'd like the intro more if the new lyrics didn't sound so off and the art was more than manipulated clip art.

[Hades]

Well I'm passing on Loonatics becaust TMNT is much better. Anyway, I know it is at night right now, but the video looks so dark. Same thing happened last week. The turtles look like they are colored a lot darker, and some of the pictures in the opening song are hard to make out. Anyone else notice this?

[MJC]

Decent episode. Leo sure is angsty these days.

[Rahxepy]

Leo is getting pissed even more in each ep that passes by(Karai sure has him tied in a knot) It was a decent Episode.

[SirLemming]

A decent episode. I know some people were talking about reduced weapon impact last week, well, this week certainly rectified that. Splinter had some great moments too.

Next week's episode looks strikingly similar to this one...

Caught the new intro (missed last week due to Pokémon).

I think I'd like the intro more if the new lyrics didn't sound so off and the art was more than manipulated clip art. Yeah, the new parts sound really off for some reason. It doesn't help that the guy's voice is strange and bad.

[CyberCubed]

Must 4kids use the same grating female voices for all their shows? Was the main girl done by Lisa Ortiz? 4kids seriously needs new voice actors, almost every female character in all their shows sounds exactly the same.

Overall this was a good episode like I expected. Stayed true to the comic book for the most part, and I liked the April/Casey scenes.

Since April/Casey are pretty much together at the very start of this season, I wouldn't be surprised if they have a daughter in the future. (Shadow)


The fight scenes were pretty good, and Mikey was toned down for the most part in this episode. Looks like we have a few more episodes in Northampton before the Turtles return to New York.

[Dark Fact]

I thought this was going to be just another "meh" episode but it turned out to be surprisingly enjoyable. :)

April and Casey's little romantic scenes were nice. You gotta love Casey for having to resort to begging master Splinter for advice only to have Splinter tell him that he is not skilled in such matters. :D

The fight scenes between the two combat candidates was pretty well done. :)

The one with the red hair and tiara kind of reminded me of a much evil Lina Inverse...only she sounds like a steroid pumping woman. :sweat:

The monster fight scenes were carried out pretty well too. :) I especially liked Raph's line: "Yee-freakin'-haw!" :D

I give this ****. :)

[creativerealms]

Very acurate adaption of the comic. Besides the two characters changed designs that is. Pretty good episode.

[Fone Bone]

The preview leads me to believe that this episode is based off TMNT #13 from Volume 1.

http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume01/13/13cover.jpg

If I'm correct, this should be a pretty decent stand alone episode. If you wanna get a head start and read the comic version, the official site has a synopsis:

http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume01/13/13.htm

That was the first Turtle comic I ever read as a kid so I definately have a certain fondness for it. The episode itself? Decent but further proof that this show can'r really do standalone stories. The warrior lady was DEFINATELY not as hot as she was in the comic (just LOOK at that cover!) but she was okay. I liked the Casey/April scenes because it seems like even though April KNOWS Casey is a dullard she loves him anyways which is always a nice thing to see. As for the monster fights my mind wandered somewhat. (This NEVER happens during Justice League Unlimited). I also thought the very end reminded me of The Simpsons episode The Itchy and Scratchy and Poochie Show. I expected the warrior lady to say in a different voice "I have to go now. My home planet needs me," and for a title card to appear that the warrior lady died on her way home. Score: ***.

[Simpler Simon]

Strictly average. The fact that it's adapted from an original issue does make me feel a bit warmer towards it, but it was really nothing special. Generic voice acting for the two female leads, and a subplot with Casey and April that feels dumbed down for kiddies (is 4Kids afraid of using the word "love"?). I was really expecting Casey to propose to April.

What worked:
-the monster designs, specifically the rock monster.
-Splinter's line commenting on how the flowers were indeed a nice touch (after April's had a look at Casey's breakfast). It's nice to see the Splinter one-liners are continually amusing.
-the ending scene with the lock of hair, and the sunrise. I thought the sunrise was nicely coloured and the music fit very well. Plus you got an appearance of Casey's van, which looks suspiciously like the turtle wagon.

I won't say this episode was inconsequential, because knowing this series they'll probably tie into a bigger arc down the line. But as a stand-alone it's just kinda there. It's better than the filler "monster of the week" episodes from the original series though.

Is next week's story based on anything?

[CyberCubed]

As far as I can tell, next weeks episode may be an all-new story. I've checked the various comics with those "bird people", and while it seems like it could be based off one of them, the preview is too random to judge, unlike this weeks episode.

[Dark Fact]

Actually, those bird people are part of the Atlantis storyline which was briefly shown back in the third season with the mage and the underground Atlantean people. They never disclosed on their survival and next week looks to be that they have.

[Alex Toon]

Is the new art like they showed in the short clip during commercials? The one with Michealangelo hiding in a punching bag? If so, what in the name of this show happened? If that's the new animation, it looks like it was watercolor-based.

[AdamYJ]

(is 4Kids afraid of using the word "love"?).

No, but I think Casey might be.

I managed to tape it and I thought it was pretty darn good. It seems to me that Donatello almost always has some soft spot for the alien life-forms he encounters. Anyway, just a fun little episode about aliens and monster fighting. I do hope that Leonardo starts to get back to his old self soon, the group's already got a hothead.

[SirLemming]

Is the new art like they showed in the short clip during commercials? The one with Michealangelo hiding in a punching bag?Of course not.

[CyberCubed]

I do hope that Leonardo starts to get back to his old self soon, the group's already got a hothead.

I hope Leo stays like this for at least half the season. It's not that he's a hot head, it's just that he hates the way things turned out between him and Karai. After spending 2 whole seasons trying to get her to change and join his side, she refuses, and stabs him which he could have died from.

Notice how Leo barely talked in today's episode at all? I think he had 3 lines at the most, the rest of the time he was just silent in the backround. He's still a good fighter though, he came to his brothers aid in the episode, so it's not like he's taking it out on them.

If the writers do it right, Leo could get some very good character development as the season goes on.

[Fone Bone]

I hope Leo stays like this for at least half the season. It's not that he's a hot head, it's just that he hates the way things turned out between him and Karai. After spending 2 whole seasons trying to get her to change and join his side, she refuses, and stabs him which he could have died from.

Notice how Leo barely talked in today's episode at all? I think he had 3 lines at the most, the rest of the time he was just silent in the backround. He's still a good fighter though, he came to his brothers aid in the episode, so it's not like he's taking it out on them.

If the writers do it right, Leo could get some very good character development as the season goes on.I think this is a good thing too. One of the cool things about this show is that the characters actually develope somewhat. Sure, a lot of the arc resolutions are cop-outs but the individual journeys the characters take in the meantime are the one of the best things about the series. I think it would be nice to see an episode where Leo works through this betrayel (after the mirror universe Shredder episode we KNEW it was coming) and how he is able to deal with it.

[Viper]

I actually liked this ep.:)

1. The action was fantastic!:D Not just the turtles battling those creatures, but also Jana & Mariah's big face-off!

2. Jana & Mariah's VAs were terrific. (Lisa "Serenity" Ortiz vs. Megan "Mai Valentine" Hollingshead.:anime: :D )

3. I loved the parts with Casey & April. I thought it was very nice.:anime:

Great ep. I give it 4 stars.:)

[bigddan11]

The Turtles injuries are slowly curing, but I thought Master Splinter's hair would have grown faster. It was great to see the good ole boys can still kick into action at a moments notice as well. This is looking like it'll be a great season.

Also, did any one catch that Ninja Turtles short during Sonic X? It involved the Turtles doing hide and seek unti they got distracted by a new punching bag which ended up having Michaelangeleo in it. It was hilarious, so it looks like the Turtles will be replacing the Incredible Crash Dummy shorts this season.

[AdamYJ]

I hope Leo stays like this for at least half the season. It's not that he's a hot head, it's just that he hates the way things turned out between him and Karai. After spending 2 whole seasons trying to get her to change and join his side, she refuses, and stabs him which he could have died from.

You see, it doesn't really work if you miss all that. I missed the end of last season and didn't see what happened between Leo and Karai. I managed to tune in for the premiere and the Turtles were suddenly injured and Leo was suddenly broody. Working on Saturdays sucks.

[Simpler Simon]

I think this is a good thing too. One of the cool things about this show is that the characters actually develope somewhat. Sure, a lot of the arc resolutions are cop-outs but the individual journeys the characters take in the meantime are the one of the best things about the series.
They develop, but only in a way that the writers can quickly fold them back into their gradually tiring archtypes. Raph will always remain the hothead, Mikey the jokester, etc. If a character's inner journey can be considered from point A to point B, then point B on TMNT is only a pitstop before returning to point A. Leo's brooding right now is very similiar to the mysterious cell phone calls during season 3, or the hints of gang violence in season 2: A few episodes of foreshadowing, a big blow-out episode where things come to a head, then back to the norm. The turtles are supposed to have ventured through 3 seasons worth of hell, but they don't really act any different than the first episode from season 1.

Compare this to Gargoyles, where the trio lost their innocence and naivite as they explored the city, or Justice League, where Green Lantern gradually humanizes and Flash is given moments of heart past his goofiness.

I like continuity, so having Leo be moody over what happened with Karai is good. But good continuity doesn't guarantee good character development.

[MacGyver]

I liked it. The fights were good, Casey looking to Splinter for advice was nice, Leo brooding and only having 3 to 4 lines was great given last season's events, and I liked the fact that Casey didn't say he loved April, but instead said he cared for her. I think that Casey is the type who can't say he loves someone, because of who he is. My opinion:****

[Quagmire]

Missed last week's episode, so this was the season premiere for me.

The individual line for each turtle in the opening seemed like a throwback to the original series for me.

Loved the Casey/April interaction and Splinter giving the love advice.

Definately interesting to see Leo be quiet.

Looks like Thanagarians next week. Oops, wrong series.

[Ian]

They develop, but only in a way that the writers can quickly fold them back into their gradually tiring archtypes. Raph will always remain the hothead, Mikey the jokester, etc. If a character's inner journey can be considered from point A to point B, then point B on TMNT is only a pitstop before returning to point A. Leo's brooding right now is very similiar to the mysterious cell phone calls during season 3, or the hints of gang violence in season 2: A few episodes of foreshadowing, a big blow-out episode where things come to a head, then back to the norm. The turtles are supposed to have ventured through 3 seasons worth of hell, but they don't really act any different than the first episode from season 1.

Compare this to Gargoyles, where the trio lost their innocence and naivite as they explored the city, or Justice League, where Green Lantern gradually humanizes and Flash is given moments of heart past his goofiness.

I like continuity, so having Leo be moody over what happened with Karai is good. But good continuity doesn't guarantee good character development.I disagree. While the changes are less notable than in the other shows you mentioned, they have evolved--Splinter and Mikey in particular. Splinter has had a definite journey, from not letting their students go out, to letting them commit suicide. Mikey has, over the course of the seasons, become the best strategist in the team, and the man with the plan, and overall, the best fighter. Also, you neglect to mention the biggest change of all: their willingness to give their lives if the stakes merit it (Exodus), which ran counter to their entire way of thinking.

As for the episode, it was an average concept helped by some nifty execution.

Random thoughts:

So, was I the only one expecting the E.P.F. to show up in the field at the end?
Heh. The way the turtles dealt with Moriah's minions reminded me of the way the Timmverse guys always went to town on robots.
I loved the final Moriah/Jhanna fight. I expect to see them both on the next Battle Nexus Championship.
Injuries! I loved that. However, I expected to see Mikey recoil from having the rocks fall on his legs. Must be more healed than I thought.
The Casey/April scenes were fine, although I do think April should have said the dreaded L-word. And that bed looks way too small for two--they must get very cramped when they sleep on it.
As for Leo's broodyness, I'm going to say that it's not because he's mad at Karai, but because he's mad at himself for seeing Karai's point so perfectly.
Back in Mission of Gravity, Karai compared her relationship with Saki to the Turtles' relationship with Splinter--and she's right: it's exactly the same thing. Leo knows that, were he in her position, he would have done exactly the same thing as her. However, Leo being Leo, he also knows that Karai's position is inexcusable. Finally, he knows that, up until Exodus, Karai had been going through the same thing as he's going through right now. Add it all up, and you get an existencial crisis and broody Leo. And--ouch!--he got part of his shell sliced off?

[Mandi-chan]

I disagree. While the changes are less notable than in the other shows you mentioned, they have evolved--Splinter and Mikey in particular. Splinter has had a definite journey, from not letting their students go out, to letting them commit suicide. Mikey has, over the course of the seasons, become the best strategist in the team, and the man with the plan, and overall, the best fighter. Also, you neglect to mention the biggest change of all: their willingness to give their lives if the stakes merit it (Exodus), which ran counter to their entire way of thinking.

As for the episode, it was an average concept helped by some nifty execution.

Random thoughts:

So, was I the only one expecting the E.P.F. to show up in the field at the end?
Heh. The way the turtles dealt with Moriah's minions reminded me of the way the Timmverse guys always went to town on robots.
I loved the final Moriah/Jhanna fight. I expect to see them both on the next Battle Nexus Championship.
Injuries! I loved that. However, I expected to see Mikey recoil from having the rocks fall on his legs. Must be more healed than I thought.
The Casey/April scenes were fine, although I do think April should have said the dreaded L-word. And that bed looks way too small for too--they must get very cramped when they sleep on it.
As for Leo's broodyness, I'm going to say that it's not because he's mad at Karai, but because he's mad at himself for seeing Karai's point so perfectly.
Back in Mission of Gravity, Karai compared her relationship with Saki to the Turtles' relationship with Splinter--and she's right: it's exactly the same thing. Leo knows that, were he in her position, he would have done exactly the same thing as her. However, Leo being Leo, he also knows that Karai's position is inexcusable. Finally, he knows that, up until Exodus, Karai had been going through the same thing as he's going through right now. Add it all up, and you get an existencial crisis and broody Leo. And--ouch!--he got part of his shell sliced off?

I completely agree with you!

Great ep, looking forward to next week!

[Fone Bone]

I disagree. While the changes are less notable than in the other shows you mentioned, they have evolved--Splinter and Mikey in particular. Splinter has had a definite journey, from not letting their students go out, to letting them commit suicide. Mikey has, over the course of the seasons, become the best strategist in the team, and the man with the plan, and overall, the best fighter. Also, you neglect to mention the biggest change of all: their willingness to give their lives if the stakes merit it (Exodus), which ran counter to their entire way of thinking. Yeah, a lot of the character changes ARE subtle but they're there.

As for the episode, it was an average concept helped by some nifty execution.

Random thoughts:

So, was I the only one expecting the E.P.F. to show up in the field at the end?
Heh. The way the turtles dealt with Moriah's minions reminded me of the way the Timmverse guys always went to town on robots.
I loved the final Moriah/Jhanna fight. I expect to see them both on the next Battle Nexus Championship.
Injuries! I loved that. However, I expected to see Mikey recoil from having the rocks fall on his legs. Must be more healed than I thought.
The Casey/April scenes were fine, although I do think April should have said the dreaded L-word. And that bed looks way too small for too--they must get very cramped when they sleep on it.
As for Leo's broodyness, I'm going to say that it's not because he's mad at Karai, but because he's mad at himself for seeing Karai's point so perfectly.
Back in Mission of Gravity, Karai compared her relationship with Saki to the Turtles' relationship with Splinter--and she's right: it's exactly the same thing. Leo knows that, were he in her position, he would have done exactly the same thing as her. However, Leo being Leo, he also knows that Karai's position is inexcusable. Finally, he knows that, up until Exodus, Karai had been going through the same thing as he's going through right now. Add it all up, and you get an existencial crisis and broody Leo. And--ouch!--he got part of his shell sliced off?
That is a great idea. I REALLY hope the writers explore that angle. Leo understanding where Karai was coming from and knowing he'd have probably have done the same thing and that scares him is definately more interesting than the idea that he was hurt by her betrayel.

[Anarky]

more angry Leo:D
raph: "yee-freakin'-haw":D
splinter: "many, many, many, MANY flowers":D

good stand alone ep...or perhaps a precursor of thing to come???

looks like the crew heads back to NYC to duel some of those Elintean Archangels. Perhaps we'll be seeing more of the Elintean Mer-Men and those Green Beasts as well.

*note: looks like those flying Turtles toys are being incoporated into the show...and those new Turtle Mech figures may be in the future (noooo!!!) The Don-Mech from "Same as it Ever Was" should be the only mech we see ever again!

[NightwingAngelo]

That episode was actually not bad. That's TMNT for ya'.

Right when you think you're finally in for the bad one, they give you an ep that isn't as bad as what you thought it would be.

Raphael: "Ye-Freakin'-Ha!!!" Loved that part. :D

And when Leo unexpectedly ended up on top of the roof ahead of everyone else, I swear I that thought was going to hear an old "Batman: The Animated Series" tune. LOL!;)

[NightwingAngelo]

They develop, but only in a way that the writers can quickly fold them back into their gradually tiring archtypes. Raph will always remain the hothead, Mikey the jokester, etc. If a character's inner journey can be considered from point A to point B, then point B on TMNT is only a pitstop before returning to point A. Leo's brooding right now is very similiar to the mysterious cell phone calls during season 3, or the hints of gang violence in season 2: A few episodes of foreshadowing, a big blow-out episode where things come to a head, then back to the norm. The turtles are supposed to have ventured through 3 seasons worth of hell, but they don't really act any different than the first episode from season 1.

Compare this to Gargoyles, where the trio lost their innocence and naivite as they explored the city, or Justice League, where Green Lantern gradually humanizes and Flash is given moments of heart past his goofiness.

I like continuity, so having Leo be moody over what happened with Karai is good. But good continuity doesn't guarantee good character development.I disagree. They've developed alright, just not in the way you're probably hoping for.

Leo: When the show first began. Leonardo was such a suck-up to Master Splinter (he hardly went about his and the other's own way of doing things unless he was being lured into them by Raph), and never really took the reigns enough to have us know him as the leader (the others called him the leader and such, but it wasn't there much).

His attitude began to change in the beginning of "The Shredder Strikes back, P:1", and only until after he got attacked in that episode did he finally begin to take on the leadership roll more seriously. In "Return to New York, Part: 2" especially, where he told master Splinter that the fight between the Turtles and ol' Shred head was one he needed to lead. After that it's part 3, and I doubt that the same character of Leo we saw near the beginning of the series was the one we saw then.

As for being a suck-up... does anyone else see as much "Splinter Junoir" as we did before? I don't think it's even close to how much he was overdoing it in the 1st half of Season one. That side of him has been toned down, big time. Now we're almost 3 Seasons after all that.


Mikey: He can think for himself. That right there is enough of an explaination for him. I think that "Touch and Go" showed us that, and as of now (1 season later), he still seems to have it, and I doubt he'll lose it. As for his fighting... at first, I thought he and Raph were even for 2nd best fighter (I'd still say that Leo's on top here), but after seeing "The Shredder Strikes Back, P:2", and having Mikey beat Raph 3 times to none this season, I'd say that he's a step up on ol' Raphie-boy now. (That last bit doesn't have anything to do with his Character development or anything, I'm just throwing that out there to the poster above that said that Mikey's #1 on the chart ;) )


Don: He's usually the least willing to do battle... or at least he was. Slowly, but surely, when the episodes progress he's beginning to get up there. Maybe still not the best of the turtles when it comes to fighting, but he's always there now, and willing to do battle.


Raph: Some will say that he has probably developed the least... he probably has. But hey, at least he's not trying to kill Mikey anymore. :sweat: His canger doesn't get the best of him as muc has it used to (City at War, Part: 2) and we all know that he actually does care about his family, but don't tell him that... he'd kill you... no really, he probably would. ;)


April: No more hiding when the Turtles are in the heat of battle. She can fight/defend herself. That alone is an a huge leap considering how she was in Season 1. Out of the characters, she's probably changed the most.

[Freedom Fighter]

Twas an interesting episode...

I honestly thought Casey and April were further along in their relationship than this stage... Casey actually 'admitting' his love (or trying), and serving April breakfast in bed. At least it gave us a comedic moment in Casey asking Splinter for love advice. :D

Wasn't digging the two alien gals duking it out to become the next ruler of their planet. Was the voices... they were a bit grating for my taste.

7 out of 10 for "The People's Choice."

[Mighty_Bojingo]

"Many many flowers. Yes many flowers was a good idea."

*giggles* :D