Will Two-Face be on The Batman?

[Cluracan]

If they bring Two-Face onto the Batman, how will they handle him. the characters for the most part are simplified to suite a more child audence. Can Two-Face fit in?

[Batman Fan]

They'll probably treat him more like a gangster/mobster type character that's like an underworld figure that runs like smuggling operations and stuff, because Clayface is basically the Batman's Two-face, a friend of Bruce who got in an accident and became a deep, emotional, and psychological character for Batman too fight, so I don't think they'll do that with their interpretation of Two-face.

[Bizarro Batman]

If they bring Two-Face onto the Batman, how will they handle him. the characters for the most part are simplified to suite a more child audence. Can Two-Face fit in?I don't think it's that the villians are simpilified, I think it's more that they aren't given as much detail. I know that sounds like the same thing....but it's not.

I also hope that made sense.

[gusdlt]

Well, according to the episode names that Tv.com shows, Two-Face will be appearing at the end of the second season (remember it has 26 episodes, we've only seen half of it).

[Ruseri]

Well, according to the episode names that Tv.com shows, Two-Face will be appearing at the end of the second season (remember it has 26 episodes, we've only seen half of it).
Actually, it has gone back to the "13-episode" format. season three starts next week. season two really was only 13 episodes long, and YES this has been confirmed to be true. and any episodes for season three that are listed shouldn't be considered true at this point, unless they are "Batgirl Begins" ...that's the only, truly confirmed episode of season three at the moment.

[TimTwoFace]

Now with Poison Ivy soon entering the fray, Two-Face is the most notable villain that has yet to be on the show. I'm a little surprised why he's been pushed aside, since he's such a popular character with fans, and even the general public knows of him (in name only, at least).

They don't have to make Two-Face Bruce's best friend to make the character work - that level of closeness was only used on BTAS. If they treat him as Gotham's DA that goes nuts, it would work; of course, the fact that Ethan Bennet was also a figure of the law means that it would be treading the same ground in that regard, as well, but hey - I wouldn't mind.

To be honest, I've grown weary of Clayface; he's still a decent character, but while MELTDOWN was a good episode, I thought his dialogue in GRUNDY'S NIGHT was terrible, once he revealed himself.

-Tim

[dlb]

This comes from a very casual "The Batman" viewer, but didn't Harvey Dent appear in an episode as Clayface's defence attorney? If so they could easily bring Two Face into the mix.

[Ruseri]

This comes from a very casual "The Batman" viewer, but didn't Harvey Dent appear in an episode as Clayface's defence attorney? If so they could easily bring Two Face into the mix.I don't believe they actually mentioned that atourney's name, so i think it would be interesting if they DID play that angle... maybe, instead of "Harvey" being Bruce's friend, perhaps he could be Bennett's lawyer. and that could definitely still add a tragic side to it.. maybe he tries to help Bruce bring Bennett back into society (as well as sanity), and somehow get's caught in an accident (perhaps caused by clayface) which turns him into two-face. i kinda like that idea actually. Mr. Matsuda! looky looky! use my idea! pleeeaaaassse! i wanna be special!!! :D

haha, in all seriousness, i think it would be SWEET if Harvey did appear in this show, even if he didn't wind up becoming two-face yet... but they could prolly hint at it. that would be cool! :anime:

[gerasimos]

I think that Two-Face would have been announced in the same fashion that Poison Ivy was if he was going to be used this season. However, if they were too include him they should just not explain his origin all too much to avoid being redundant. OR they can just make him a gangster that got hit in the face with some chemical waste a la Joker.

[maxnugget]

Considering Two-Face is most likely going to be a central character in the next two Batman films, I wonder if he'll be off-limits, as Ra's Al Ghul and Scarecrow are/were?

[elfwithagun]

Now im not saying anything, but would anyone think that Matsuda, to change this series up a bit, might make two-face a woman?

[ROBOTRON]

I don't think it's that the villians are simpilified, I think it's more that they aren't given as much detail. I know that sounds like the same thing....but it's not.

I also hope that made sense.
Thats the one thing that really pisses me about the series.

I'm not a kid, but Matsuda and the people behind this show are doing the kids a diservice. The kids of today are smarter than when I was a kid. Much more sophisticated. Most kids have mastered a computer by the age 10 and understand the complicated process of divorce by the time they are teens.

My point is, the characters on the show could be given more depth...I think todays kids can handle it...better yet, I think that could be the anchor for the new fan base.

Instead we are given a load of crap like: "Victor Fries, a common jewelry thief becomes the villian Mr. Freeze"....what a lazy way to introduce a complex character like Victor. I was even more burned when they introduced Firefly without ANY explanation of who or where he came from. The old TNBA intro for him (albeit short) was that of a jilted lover...was however EFFECTIVE and ACCEPTABLE.

The only psyche they have explored with any real detail was Clayface...that paid off, as he is probably one villian people think of the most when they think of The Batman show. I don't see why they couldn't have explored some of the other characters with more deeper detail....Lens (Firefly) was effectively done in 1 half hour show.

[creativerealms]

But Mr. Freeze was just a common criminal who became an ice powered super villain. It was Batman TAS that took that shallow character and gave him dempth. Really all The Batman did was take Freeze back to the way he was.

[ROBOTRON]

But Mr. Freeze was just a common criminal who became an ice powered super villain. It was Batman TAS that took that shallow character and gave him dempth. Really all The Batman did was take Freeze back to the way he was.
Yeah, I guess your right.

I have a hard time going from "more" to "less".:sweat:

[dlb]

I don't believe they actually mentioned that atourney's name, so i think it would be interesting if they DID play that angle...
I could have sworn that he was identified as "Harvey Dent," but then I could be mistaken.

[Bizarro Batman]

I could have sworn that he was identified as "Harvey Dent," but then I could be mistaken.This guy?

http://worldsfinestonline.com/WF/thebatman/episodes/19meltdown/08.jpg

[dlb]

This guy?

http://worldsfinestonline.com/WF/thebatman/episodes/19meltdown/08.jpg
Yup, that's the one.

[Binker]

The lawyer's name is Brent.

[dlb]

The lawyer's name is Brent.Okay, I must have misheard his name when I saw that one. My mistake.

[enigmatic_one]

To be honest, I've grown weary of Clayface; he's still a decent character, but while MELTDOWN was a good episode, I thought his dialogue in GRUNDY'S NIGHT was terrible, once he revealed himself.
Yes, I'm afraid Grundy's Night did a terrible disservice to the character and weakened what was so far probably the best character on The Batman. I'm hoping he'll make a come back in this next season which will rectify that, or/and that Riddler will be expanded on to his full potential (the fact that he was just introduced without any back story makes for a lot of excellent stories, and the character is already fantastic).

~Enigmatic One

[Silly McGooses]

I think he'd be a bit like Tommy Lee Jones' Two-Face

[Ruseri]

I think he'd be a bit like Tommy Lee Jones' Two-Face
I doubt it... and i would hope not... cause that would make me sad :sad:

[jv2k]

Meh I don't think we really need him at this point but he would be a nice addition.

[TimTwoFace]

Considering Two-Face is most likely going to be a central character in the next two Batman films, I wonder if he'll be off-limits, as Ra's Al Ghul and Scarecrow are/were?
Maybe - I've thought of that, too. But then again, why is the Joker allowed on the series, if that's the case?

Of course, I don't remember reading anywhere that Scarecrow and Ra's were officially off-limits due to BATMAN BEGINS - but it is a curious situation.

Ah well - I'd rather they be in a mainstream movie than a cartoon series, anyway. :D

-Tim

[Silly McGooses]

I doubt it... and i would hope not... cause that would make me sad :sad:It makes me sad too, but I doubt he'll be taken very seriously. Either that, or so seriously that it's ridiculous. Those seem to be the two options with characters on the show, unfortunately.

[Matsuda]

Harvey Dent in the series...we'll see. I'm a huge fan of Two-Face myself. When we use a character, we would really like to do them justice, and the opportunity with Two-Face hasn't presented itself yet due to certain circumstances. I agree with you on Freeze Robotron, we could have done a much better job of making him special in his debut, but I disagree about Firefly, him being mixed up in industrial espionage is fine for the specific episode. We can always unravel more about the villains in future episodes.

[Ruseri]

We can always unravel more about the villains in future
episodes.
Yay! :D Does that, by any chance, mean that there's a possibility of Mr Freeze getting more of his past revealed? i think that would be great... i'd also really like to see The Riddler's origins.

[JLU Dude]

I'd like to see Two-Face on the Batman. Getting to the lawyers in Meltdown, we only heard Bennet's defense attorney's name. We never did hear the name of the prosecutor/DA at Clayface's trail and in B: TAS/TBNA & sometimes in the comics, Harvey Dent's hair is colored black rather than brown...;)

[Casey Mack]

well Two-face uses guns and only guns. And since the "The Batman" has avoided the gun and mobster angle [sadly], if Two-face appears on "The Batman" he will know martial arts and have a mohawk.

[Silly McGooses]

Hey, I'm not the biggest fan of TB, but I think it's a bit ridiculous to say that. Besides, Two-Face doesn't ALWAYS use guns. I don't think he ever used a gun on B:TAS, except the origin story 2-parter. And I don't think it's a CHOICE they're not using guns, the network's probably not letting them. I'd be interested in seeing their interpretation.

[jv2k]

I think thats pretty obvious seeing how that description of the batman dtv was pretty violent.

[TimTwoFace]

well Two-face uses guns and only guns. And since the "The Batman" has avoided the gun and mobster angle [sadly], if Two-face appears on "The Batman" he will know martial arts and have a mohawk.
Hey, he used the giant penny once, too. And who's to say the writers won't let him use some sort of razor-sharp coin device (like his version of a Batarang) or something. Not saying it's great, but it's an option to a gun.

Then again, if they can get around the GCPD not having guns, this should be much easier.

-Tim

[Ruseri]

Hey, he used the giant penny once, too. And who's to say the writers won't let him use some sort of razor-sharp coin device (like his version of a Batarang) or something. Not saying it's great, but it's an option to a gun.

Then again, if they can get around the GCPD not having guns, this should be much easier.

-TimExcept, the GCPD DOES use guns. granted, they've only actually fired them in two episodes ("Fire and Ice" and "Strange Minds"), but that doesn't mean they are any less lethal than normal-looking guns.

And they aren't laser's either. They seem to fire just like any normal gun, with no laser beams, the only difference is, they don't make a "BANG" noise. it's more like the sound a silenced pistol would make. that's how i look at it anyway. some people say it's a "laser" sound, but i don't think so. and that's my opinion. one reason why i think this, is because in "Traction," there was the flashback to when Bruce's parents were murdered, and when he was flipping the pearls through his fingers, one of them made a loud gunshot noise. watch the episode and you'll see what i mean... i know my description could be confusing to those who haven't seen it :sweat:

[Drizzt2218]

It's unfair to say the "no guns" policy is a preference to the creative team without knowing the actual situation. In today's political climate, and with censors tougher than ever, the network has a strict (and if you ask me, somewhat understandable) policy on guns in this or any other series airing on Kid's WB. The guns seen on the series don't resemble "real" guns, but they're there, and are used on occasion. And the only time "lasers" have been used by the police is in the finale.

As per Freeze, has anybody thought that the network may not be interested in adding a tragic backstory or bringing Nora into this series? That perhaps they've deemed the "romance" aspect of Freeze/Nora to be of no interest to their target audience? It's easy to lay into a creative team without knowing the full extent of what goes on behind-the-scenes. And that's not to paint the network as "the villains," because as much as we the fans would love to see certain things, sometimes they (the network execs) ARE right, and kids would have no interest in these stories. Outside of his first appearance, I think Freeze was handled pretty well in "Fire & Ice," and Clancy Brown delivers a great vocal performance to go with the design. He's not given the element of tragedy that defined him in B:TAS, but he is a darned good villain on this show.

As per Two-Face, I think the obvious complications come from his origin being too violent (acid hurled into his face), and that the "good guy gone bad" angle has been played with Clayface's origin. Matt Hagen was a jerk in B:TAS whom we had no sympathy for, but Ethan fills the quota for a good man driven into madness. If Two-Face were ever to be used in this series, it would have to be a strong story with a unique take on the character, and would somehow have to not retread Clayface's territory. I wouldn't envy the person trying to devise a Two-Face story, I'll tell you that much. While I wouldn't say it's impossible, in my opinion it's *unlikely* that Harvey Dent will appear in "The Batman."

--Larry

[Weltshmerz]

Drizzt2218 (Larry) hit the nail on the head in that last post. Remember, the creative team can't just do whatever it wants to -- there are several layers within Warner with their own needs that must be considered. Kids WB, as the "customer," gets the final word. Then there's broadcast standards, Cartoon Network, Warner Bros Animation, DC Comics, and WB features (yes, several characters were off-limits to the series, and some continue to be). That's a lot of hurdles, folks!

With all due respect to their landmark and outstanding work, the BTAS team had a network that WANTED them to "push the envelope" in terms of sophisticated storytelling. Heck, the execs at FOX Kids DEMANDED it, and several less-than-stellar stories were killed in the early days of that series. And to their credit, the BTAS guys rose to the occasion and produced a wonderful show. You could tell that they were having fun.

As far as the villains and their backstories in TB go, don't forget that this series is called THE BATMAN. It was intended to focus on our hero. BTAS told many great stories about the Rogues Gallery, and delved into their origins in great detail. TB was trying to walk a different, less-travelled path. How successful it was is up to each viewer. (But keep in mind the first paragraph above.)

Also, when discussing the villains, recall that Penguin's backstory has been dealt with in a fair amount of detail in at least two episodes so far. He's the ultimate "Wayne wanna-be," a child of a disgraced family who feels entitled to everything that Bruce has. If anything, he hates *Bruce* more than Batman. I find that pretty fresh and compelling. And his martial arts skills aside, there's nothing that says he can't grow into the "crime lord" persona that we're more familiar with over time. This is "Batman Year 3," after all!

[Drizzt2218]

Weltshmerz raises some good points as well, and I'd like to expand my thoughts on this. First, Ozzie is indeed one of the most fleshed out villains on this series, with more motivation given to him than on B:TAS. While generally "The Batman" gives less origin/motivation to the villains than B:TAS, when they do make the exception, it's usually to a character who didn't receive that much attention in the previous series. The Anti-Wayne angle is a fresh take that's been played with a couple times (his first two episodes), in addition to the series borrowing freely from other versions of Penguin, notably Burgess Meredith and Danny DeVito's portrayals. There's a lot of classic, iconic Penguin in this series.

We should remember that it was B:TAS that actually strayed far from established Penguin lore in devising a version of the character that was more intellectual, and later, a mobster running The Iceberg Lounge. That he became a mobster in the comics doesn't change that this wasn't/isn't his classic portrayal. Likewise, Nora was added into Freeze's character in B:TAS and later adopted into the comics, same with Harley and Joker. But these were B:TAS creations first.

Look at the character of Riddler. Does the character benefit in B:TAS by us knowing he was a disgruntled employee who sought revenge? The episode certainly wasn't the greatest, and the story was never mentioned again. Would it make his character in The Batman more threatening or less if he was a former employee of Haywire Computers, Inc.? Some villains should have the air of mystery about them. And Riddler has a clear motivation, in that he wants to solve the greatest riddle of all: The identity of Batman.

We all love B:TAS, and admire it greatly for the strides it took in animation, the boldness, and in general the craft that was involved in creating such an iconic series. But "The Batman" is trying to do something different with the characters, and ultimately, I believe it has done very well in not retreading old territory, and in giving us Batman fans a great show. I've said it before and I'll say it again, now is the best time to be a fan of Batman. We have the Timm version on JLU, a new take on The Batman, a brand new movie series launched by Christopher Nolan, Miller & Lee on All Star, Englehart & Rogers having reteamed for a six issue comic arc this summer, and so much more. There's literally something for everyone right now, and I don't think the fans have ever had it so good. =)

--Larry