FoxNews story on anime and manga.

[Go-chin]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,166897,00.html

I wish there was a stronger emoticon than just :shrug: for what I'm feeling right now.
A few ellipsis won't do either.

[Vallen Valiant]

These new guys meant well, but I have gave up long ago for anyone in the common media to ever cover news-items on anime/manga, and to even appear to know what they are talking about.

This makes me worry, though... If the media can be this wrong, what makes me think they would be right in other news items? Just because I am not an expert in tax issues, doesn't mean the media knows anything about it when they report it...

Maybe all news is junk? We just know news on anime/manga is meaningless garbage because we know better... What if EVERYTHING is meaningless garbage, but only the experts of each field can identify it?

I am scaring myself...:sweat:

[Funkmasta Zeph]

I feel a little dirty going to a FOX.news website.

[Scythemantis]

That has always been true. When the news reports something about animals it's ALWAYS a bunch of BS.

And even though I know a good amount about anime, I can't tell what's wrong with this article at all, except just a few really corny lines attempting to describe the art style.

[straw_hat]

I really love it when all anime is condescend into skimpy outfits, giant robots, and big saucer sized eyes for the illiterate.

Outside of a few qualms they did their best to explain the origin of the artform, Yu-Gi-Oh's humble beginnings, their description of 4kids, and pointing out the habit of Americans ignoring genuinely good films just because they're animated and/or foreign. I don't see where they were going with Sinbad and Treasure Planet trying to be like anime though. I'm also not sure why they failed to mention the huge success of Pokemon: The First Movie which will be the only anime to ever reach number one in the US.

[Master Moron]

Would it really be correct to say that anime is the animated equivalent of manga? That would be like saying cartoons are the animated equivalent of comics.

[G1Ravage]

Ugh...that was horrible.

[Artimus Gigan]

Dude, Sinbad isn't anime!

[Daizaburo Estes]

http://www.novemberfilm.com/bildsidor/sonatine/3.jpg

[Dark Fact]

Seriously! Who is in charge of this kind of crap they dare call news? Is FOX news being run by a bunch of chain-smoking monkeys?

[Artimus Gigan]

Seriously! Who is in charge of this kind of crap they dare call news? Is FOX news being run by a bunch of chain-smoking monkeys?No, the chain smoking monkeys are the ones who run 4Kids TV which airs on FOX and formerly ran Fox Kids


It's the chain smoking baboons that run Fox News

[Vagrant]

...and the chain smoking chimps run CNN.

Ok, forget that. Chimps are smarter than the clowns running CNN.

[Artimus Gigan]

...and the chain smoking chimps run CNN.Nah those are Gibbons

[Vagrant]

Nah those are Gibbons I think we're giving them all too much credit. We're comparing network sith to the wrong set of vertebrate.

I think we should start with reptiles.

[Keldran]

Nothing less from the network that let slip the (incorrect) address of an alleged terrorist on national broadcast. Of course you can imagine the fun that's been causing...

Going along with Vallen's train of thought, yes all news pretty much is junk, as it's driven by ratings and the lowest common denominator viewer. Terri Schaivo wasn't real news, Natalee Holloway isn't real news, Cindy Sheehan isn't real news, Scott Peterson wasn't real news, and I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this. As seen with this manga article, news doesn't serve to be informative but to reinforce the viewers existing views and make them feel better about themselves. Everyone claims to be accurate because they don't want their careers to go the way of Dan Rather, but nobody really puts forth the effort to actually be accurate. And frankly it pisses me off.

We now return you to Missing White Woman of the Week, already in progress.

[Lynxara]

Claiming that anime is animated manga is sort of a garbled half-truth. This perception dominated back in the 60's and early 70's, during the first anime booms; many early shows were not referred to as anime, but as "terebi (TV) manga". This was particularly true of stuff like Tetsujin and Go Nagai's works, which were heavily tied-in to extant manga.

To say that about modern anime, though, is a terribly misconception. Many popular anime are adaptations of manga, but there's also things like Cowboy Bebop and the bulk of Gonzo's work which is clearly written for a television audience. Most of GAINAX's stuff is not adapted from a manga, either. Also, there are anime that adapt novels or other media instead of manga.

[guinaevere]

I think we're giving them all too much credit. We're comparing network sith to the wrong set of vertebrate. Oh, you kiddos and your anti-nonliberal news bias. It must be so frustrating that their ratings are through the roof while everyone else in the field is loosing shares/viewers/subscribers.

But back to the issue at hand, here's a question for y'all. For a short overview piece to introduce those who are unfamiliar with the genre, what would you have written? How, in 250 words or less, would you have wrapped it up so more people could recognize anime when they see it, know something of it's history, know the target audience, the style of story-telling, et cetera?

[Vallen Valiant]

Oh, you kiddos and your anti-nonliberal news bias. It must be so frustrating that their ratings are through the roof while everyone else in the field is loosing shares/viewers/subscribers.

But back to the issue at hand, here's a question for y'all. For a short overview piece to introduce those who are unfamiliar with the genre, what would you have written? How, in 250 words or less, would you have wrapped it up so more people could recognize anime when they see it, know something of it's history, know the target audience, the style of story-telling, et cetera?
The problem isn't the fact that they have difficulty compressing the 'truth' into a limited time frame, but the fact that they edited it to a level that common people can 'think' they understand when they don't, and claim that the truth had been delivered when it didn't.

Most things in the world, anime or not, that are completely unfamiliar to the audience can't possibily be explained in 250 words or less. But the way media worked it means everything is much shallower in appearance than they are.

In effect, it gives the audience false impressions of understanding. People think Anime is all about giant robots and violence, and the media isn't helping in only talking about these things.

[Weatherman]

All debates about Fox News journalistic integirty aside, I've seen worse articles. They at least got some of their facts right.

[Vallen Valiant]

All debates about Fox News journalistic integirty aside, I've seen worse articles. They at least got some of their facts right.
Personally, I am not bashing FOX.

I was merely making an observation that the way Anime/Manga is treated in the media in general might be how EVERYTHING is treated in the media.

It just has to make sense to the audience; facts are irrelevent.

[LordByronius]

But back to the issue at hand, here's a question for y'all. For a short overview piece to introduce those who are unfamiliar with the genre, what would you have written? How, in 250 words or less, would you have wrapped it up so more people could recognize anime when they see it, know something of it's history, know the target audience, the style of story-telling, et cetera?
Sure. I could do that.

But since you are not the editor of anything and have no way to provide compensation, I'm going to have to pass.

Also, you seem to be the only one bringing light to Fox News' particular political biases: everyone else is simply mentioning how the monkeys that run our various news outlets are incredibly dense about covering anime/manga.

[rubberchicken]

But bashing FOX is where I get my exercise... :crying:

Anyway... if you want a piece like that done right, you need to write it yourself and submit it to a news or culture journal for publication.

[Timmay]

I love FOX news enough to not blame an entire network for one reporter's outside-looking-in view of anime.

[EscaflownePilot]

Pfft. I've already written several 150-300 word pages on manga and anime for a few writing classes, all so much better than this thrown togethor piece of trash.

I'm normally a Fox News fan, but seeing stuff like this reminds me that even they don't take the time to get things right more often than not.

[Go-chin]

Part that irritated me the most: "manga (Pronounced bang-a)".

[LordByronius]

Part that irritated me the most: "manga (Pronounced bang-a)".
JENGA

[Artimus Gigan]

JENGANah many people say Mang-Gah

it's more or less supposed to be said "mon-gah"

I wonder if people would get it right if Red Stripe's supposed magical Jamacian powers really could take hold...

[Golgo13]

Sure. I could do that.

But since you are not the editor of anything and have no way to provide compensation, I'm going to have to pass.

Also, you seem to be the only one bringing light to Fox News' particular political biases: everyone else is simply mentioning how the monkeys that run our various news outlets are incredibly dense about covering anime/manga.
I think anyone who watches the news is aware of Fox News' political biases, including their viewers. Hey, at least now you can't say all media is liberal.

[tinlunlau]

wow...this article is so politically incorrect....it disgusts me.
they fail to mention Spirited Away didn't do well at its first theatrical run because Disney kept the release limited. there weren't alot of theatres showing the movie but once the oscars came, it sold like crazy.

[Wanted]

Well, it's not surprising; with FOX having so many damn networks, they can barely get anything right anymore. Sure, "Let's inaccurately talk about how anime doesn't do well in theatres," and not talk about how many series FOX has cancelled over the span of the years, or, better yet, how many box office bombs FOX itself has incurred.

Let's analyze this article:

"Non-Japanese kids' cartoons, such as the American "Teen Titans" and the French "Totally Spies!," are heavily influenced by anime, while Nickelodeon's hit series "Avatar" is pure anime, only completely written and voiced by Americans."

They're wrong. Avatar was animated in Korea... by no means is it "pure anime." The only thing about Totally Spies! you'll find that is even remotely inspired by anime is its character designs... and this is coming from a constant viewer.

"The Cartoon Network even devotes a block of cartoons, "Toonami," to the genre."

Toonami is not devoted to anime... it's devoted to action cartoons. Again, this is coming from a long-time Toonami patron.

" "They tried to use manga styles in [Disney's] 'Treasure Planet' and it didn't work," explained Hung, referring to the cartoon characters' large eyes and the art's bold contrasts. "They tried it with [Dreamworks'] 'Sinbad' (search (javascript:siteSearch('%22Sinbad%22');)), and that didn't work." "

They did? I didn't notice. To me, it sounds like they picked this "Hung" creature off the street. They didn't even bother to ask industry insiders.

[Golgo13]

Toonami is not devoted to anime... it's devoted to action cartoons. Again, this is coming from a long-time Toonami patron.
Well, when you think about it anime does control the majority of that block. It's Teen Titans, The Batman and Justice League Unlimited sandwiched between Transformers, Yu-Gi-Oh, Zatch Bell and One Piece.

[guinaevere]

The problem isn't the fact that they have difficulty compressing the 'truth' into a limited time frame, but the fact that they edited it to a level that common people can 'think' they understand when they don't, and claim that the truth had been delivered when it didn't. Then I repeat, let's see how YOU would write it so people would 'think' they understand it better.


Most things in the world, anime or not, that are completely unfamiliar to the audience can't possibily be explained in 250 words or less. But the way media worked it means everything is much shallower in appearance than they are. Then why knock the article?

So many of y'all want the world to accept anime as more than just a niche genre/audience. You (not you, Vallen, just you understood) want people to respect it. You want the general populace to not equate anime with hentai or porn. Not to see the fans as fringe or unusual. Fox writes a piece, it gets more attention, and you tear it to pieces. Let's be consistant here.



Pfft. I've already written several 150-300 word pages on manga and anime for a few writing classes, all so much better than this thrown togethor piece of trash. Cool! Let's see it.

[I.R Joey]

I was going to just lurk just lurk at Toonzone tonight but I read this at the computer lab at my school and I just had to comment. As an anime fan I just had to comment, but where to begin?

"Simply, manga (search (javascript:siteSearch('manga');)) (rhymes with "bang-a") is Japanese for "comics." Dishpan-sized eyes, samurai-like movements and girls in microscopic miniskirts are a few of its tell-tale elements."

Poor Osamu Tezuka I guess Astro boy isn't true manga because it only has one of those elements. For shame, of course we all know the tremendous breathe of stuff that manga covers. Painting with such wide strokes does a diservice to the whole discussion....plus if you're going to generalize you gotta mention giant robots.

Still not sure what it is? The children's TV cartoons "Yu-Gi-Oh!" and "Pokemon" are both anime (search (javascript:siteSearch('anime');)), the animated version of manga (same dishpan-eyed characters, same storylines involving the battle against evil, same magic and spirituality).

And where does that leave stuff like Kare Kano and various shojo. Stuff that doesn't involve battling monsters, and tend to be much more down to earth? Again wide generalizations does not a good argument make.

Non-Japanese kids' cartoons, such as the American "Teen Titans" and the French "Totally Spies!," are heavily influenced by anime, while Nickelodeon's hit series "Avatar" is pure anime, only completely written and voiced by Americans.

To the writers credit he at least got the fact that Totally Spies is French. Many people of animation messege boards don't know that. But his assertion about Nick's Avatar is off base. It's an American show (hey I've even seen Nick recruitment advertisments asking for storyboarders on the show.) Though apparently there is some truth to the idea that it was originally pitched to renowned studios in Japan (according to Matt Wilson and Karl Olson anyway).

Now on to Mr. Hung's comments.

"I think it was twofold: Basically, when you CGI [computer-generated imagery] humans, it just looks funny," he explained. "Second thing was the script — it was a very cultural thing, so they had to include things from the game that didn't really work. It was a very spiritual story, and American kids just want shoot 'em up — they don't want to know about Mother Earth.

True often computer generated humans do look funny, but his second argument fails on the fact that Final Fantas games (complete with their mother earthy themes) sell very well in the U.S (especially post FF7). You might argue that it's because their interactive games but that neglects the fact that there are people who buy them specifically because of their storylines (even younger people).

"They tried to use manga styles in [Disney's] 'Treasure Planet' and it didn't work," explained Hung, referring to the cartoon characters' large eyes and the art's bold contrasts. "They tried it with [Dreamworks'] 'Sinbad' (search (javascript:siteSearch('%22Sinbad%22');)), and that didn't work."

The manga/anime influence in both of those movies was negligable (if they exist at all). At their core both of these movies were films done in the tried and true traditions of American feature animation (with of course modern technology). It should also be noted that the big eyed look that many people like to point to as the surest sign of anime actually originates in early manga artist (like Tezuka) being influenced by American comics and animated films in the early to mid 20th century.

"The only way manga is going to make it here," said Hung, "is when they make it live action."

The grandpappy of them all. So many things wrong with that statement. I will defend to my geek grave that a show like Evangelion works much better in animation than it ever could in live action. Animation can suspend an audiences disbelief in a way that live action can't. I mean imagine a live action movie (especially with moderate tobad C.G.I) trying to show a city destroying battle between a giant biomechanical weapon and a monster that looks like a Cubist or Surrealist piece of art? Yet you have no problem believing it in animated movie. True the Matrix made alot of money but I believe that this is because there are alot of people who don't know what it was influenced by. Seriously I've known people who love the Matrix , and can't for the life of them understand why I like anime. There's also the ring which even I had to be told had origans in manga. But again it was like a hidden element.

So yes, as everyone's been saying the article is flawed. Hopefully one of the other news outlets have some anime fans who will one day put out a more comprehensive analysis of anime. Of course I bet the next time the news media pays attention to anime/manga it will be because some controversy involving hentai or some other raunchy product.

[beren]

I think the devil you have is in the details, the over all thrust of the piece is accuate 100%. Japanese manga, and anime do very well in the states in the forms of television shows and comics. They are well read/watched, and are competetive against other television shows/books and comics. The anime movies that come out however are not nearly, not even close to being as succesfull as thier American counter parts. If anmie movies where as popular as anime shows you sould expect them to be #1 at the box office for family and kids, and probably #3 or 4 for teenagers and young adults. It is a fact that Anime movies do not do well, they perform extremely poorly at the box office, I don't care how much you like Anime or Manga, or dvd sales, or how these things get limited releases, it is a fact they do not perform as well.

[LordByronius]

Then why knock the article? Because it's poorly written, poorly researched, and wildly inaccurate.

You don't seem to point to any evidence to explain otherwise.

"Oh, but I don't see YOU making any 350-word essays on anime, instead of these 'professionals' who're actually supposed to be held to some sort of standard! I mean, let's cut them some slack here!"

Doesn't work that way, bub.

[Karl Olson]

Meanwhile, lets not any politics bleed out into this discussion or else I'll start getting all Bruce Banner in here, K?

[Vallen Valiant]

Meanwhile, lets not any politics bleed out into this discussion or else I'll start getting all Bruce Banner in here, K?
Yup, there is no point going all-out against a single source of news when all news media are as wrong as every other. I don't see it changing anytime soon.

[Karl Olson]

Yup, there is no point going all-out against a single source of news when all news media are as wrong as every other. I don't see it changing anytime soon.


I'm sorry, but you're not helping.

Just talk about the article, not the organizations and their internal stuff. This isn't the forum for that.

[Wanted]

Well, when you think about it anime does control the majority of that block. It's Teen Titans, The Batman and Justice League Unlimited sandwiched between Transformers, Yu-Gi-Oh, Zatch Bell and One Piece.That, by no means, justifies it as a block devoted to anime, because it's not.

[Scythemantis]

Also anime is not a "genre".

[Golgo13]

Also anime is not a "genre".
Yes, I do believe anime has graduated from genre to art form/cliche.

[Lynxara]

Anime is a medium, at least in the original sense of the term. What happens in a particular anime is what one would judge art, cliche, or whatever else.

Unfortunately, the general American perception of anime is that it's particular style of animation, and the identifiers are usually identified with the art style and a few broad points of subject matter (schoolgirls, giant robots, violence, etc).

[Nin-Nin69]

Are you guys joking? Sinbad it totally anime.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Nin-Nin69/Sinbad.jpg

[zmanjz]

Judging by his previous foxnews articles he's who they trot out when they feel a need to take a shot at the "geeks"

http://www.danielaltiere.com/

wow... he wrote for one of those "Shore Newspapers"... I didn't realise that they had articles among the ads in those.

http://search.foxnews.com/_1_L8T1804M88OKE__info.foxnws/search/web/%2522Daniel%2BAltiere%2522

[WolfieKiwi]

Are you guys joking? Sinbad it totally anime.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Nin-Nin69/Sinbad.jpg
Ha, yeah (Luffy looks like he's displaying a certain finger though...)

I would love to see the news and co try to pronounce some anime shows...
mostly...Bobobo~bobo~bobo.

I think I got the title mispelled....:sweat:

[MonkeyFunk]

"The next time I hear someone ask 'what's it like working in the animation genre?', I'M GUNNA PUNCH HIM!"
--Brad Bird.

['Stute Fish]

My love for Brad Bird overfloweth.

I get the feeling that whoever asks him something like that is really just misusing the word itself, though -- I've read things like "working in the black-and-white genre of film". I don't think most people think that something can only truly be animation if it's done in a classic Disney style. Whereas the misusage when it comes to anime is pretty much what Lynxara posted above.

[SirLemming]

OMG THE ARTICLE WAS SOMEWHAT INACCURATE!!!!!!ALSO FOXNEWS IS THE DEVIL SO MUCH WORSE THAN CNNA@REHG&$AHBJIV@Q^APOBH%^$#PASH3#%/2P513-89#\-B!@D



Really, though, when you leave the anime convention behind, most of what's said here is pretty accurate. It's not really a misrepresentation. The public's conception of anime won't be shaped and shattered by a mispronunciation or unresearched minor fact.

[Classic Speedy]

JENGA You sunk my battleship!
Nah many people say Mang-Gah

it's more or less supposed to be said "mon-gah" I pronounce it Mang-gah. I just can't get myself to say "mon-gah". It makes me sound British. :p

As for the article, yes, it's inaccurate in a few spots but what are you gonna do? It was a slow news day, and we're talking about reporters whose forte is world events and politics, not entertainment. I'm not saying that condones generalizations, but it's to be expected.

[MonkeyFunk]

I pronounce it Mang-gah. I just can't get myself to say "mon-gah". It makes me sound British. :p
I'm British and I can't say "mon-gah" either. So there we go.

[LordByronius]

OMG THE ARTICLE WAS SOMEWHAT INACCURATE!!!!!!ALSO FOXNEWS IS THE DEVIL SO MUCH WORSE THAN CNNA@REHG&$AHBJIV@Q^APOBH%^$#PASH3#%/2P513-89#\-B!@D

LOL POLITICS

The article sucks. Nobody's saying that it's going to shape people's perceptions of ANYTHING. But a poorly researched, badly written piece of crap is a piece of crap regardless.

[shoujoaifan]

Eh, been there, done that, I can’t get fazed by this anymore.

My only, my ONLY problem with it is the Sinbad/Treasure Island comment. NOT because of mistaking them for anime, but because they KEEP parading those two movies around (a few other ones, like Osmosis Jones) when the topic of studios switching to 3-D comes up, saying “Oh, these 2-D movies bombed, SO OF COURSE ALL 2-D movies don’t sell, and that’s why we need to switch to 3-D. D’oh!”, LEAVING OUT 2-D movies that DID do good, like Lilo & Stitch. (Which made millions. And then later that year Disney announced they’re switching to 3-D.)

So when writing an article about how ANIME movies (so far there's only been very little 3-D anime brought over due to the little amount over there, LET ALONE 3-D anime movies being made and brought over) suck at the movie theaters, NOT only do they leave out Pokemon: The First Movie, the exact opposite of bombing, they also list 2 American-made movies done in typical Disney and WB styles that didn’t do well because its basically a well-used tool for them now.




(Reminds me of that one cartoon that was on one channel, describing how all the various media companies and non-media companies own pieces of each other and themselves, and how they’re all influenced. The cartoon never aired on tv again.)

[Geezil]

On the upside (assuming there is one), at least the writer never got around to adding embarrassing throwaway quotes such as "Yo-ho-ho, he took a bite of Gum-Gum!" :sweat: (whew.)

[Gatomon41]

So Fox News puts up one one inaccurate article probably not writen by us Fans. So What? At least Anime is getting a little more attention. If people have a problem with it, email Fox News and point out the inaccuracies.

[SirLemming]

LOL POLITICS *shrug* Have you seen the rest of the thread? Fox News deserves to be bashed, but so does every other media outlet. If you wanted to isolate yourself from media bias and inaccuracy, you'd pretty much have to leave modern civilization. Singling out one network to bash is dangerous.


The article sucks. Nobody's saying that it's going to shape people's perceptions of ANYTHING. But a poorly researched, badly written piece of crap is a piece of crap regardless. "Nobody's saying that it's going to shape people's perceptions of anything"? Watch your absolutes there. Are you seriously accounting for everything that's been said by everyone in this thread? If you don't think my post addresses you accurately, it probably wasn't meant to address you at all.

There are barely any significant mistakes in the article. They got some pronunciations wrong, they glossed over some insignificant debates over the connections between anime and manga, they misattributed some animation studios... The article is inaccurate, but it's hardly appalling. And it's hard to disagree with its main point -- that Japanese animated movies haven't had big box-office success in America yet.

I just think you guys are freaking out over nothing. Otaku things.

[Karl Olson]

Oh, I'm so tempted to close this. Really.

[LightShadow1890]

Sorry to skip the whole thread....

But next time, before they try to make an article of anime, they have to do their homework. Because the article they did just sucks.

It's a good thing I don't watch FOX news anymore. I don't get they keep on bashing CNN. :shrug:

[guinaevere]

Because it's poorly written, poorly researched, and wildly inaccurate.

You don't seem to point to any evidence to explain otherwise. Because A) it's not as inaccurate as you claim it is and B) that was not my point, was it?

My point again is that so many of y'all complain that anime and you, as anime fans, are misunderstood, yet when someone TRIES to understand and welcome others to this world, you jump down their throats, rather than being constructive and writing a piece you feel is correct.

Okay, it mentions that anime character designs often include big eyes. And everyone here freaks out. "Anime is MORE than Big eyes! not all anime characters are drawn that way! I guess Disney is anime too!" Fine. Then come up with something that clearly identifies a new viewer to anime.

Honestly, what could be lost, how would it hurt if just one of you who says it's completely wretched write your own intro piece, post it here, and submit it to Dan Altiere at the Fox Newsroom?


Doesn't work that way, bub. I guess not. I guess asking for anything constructive to the cause is too much. But thanks for calling me "bub." It's the very first time in my life anyone's called me that. =D

[LordByronius]

My point again is that so many of y'all complain that anime and you, as anime fans, are misunderstood, yet when someone TRIES to understand and welcome others to this world, you jump down their throats, rather than being constructive and writing a piece you feel is correct.

This has less to do with "fandom" and more to do with bad writing. I think it's kinda funny that somebody rhymes "manga" with "bang-a"; but to say that Sinbad and Treasure Planet's box-office failures can be attributed to their "anime style" is mind-boggling. Nobody actually believes that, do they?

Getting one's facts straight shouldn't be so tough.

[Scythemantis]

Yes, I do believe anime has graduated from genre to art form/cliche.

No, it was never a genre. Genre=western, science fiction, drama, romance, etc. Genre can't be "animated films from japan".

[rubberchicken]

"I guess Disney is anime too!"
Well... technically Disney is anime, at least to the Japanese.