How many of you actually read any of the mainstream Bat comics?

[Beyond Batman]

After reading a particular post mentioning mainstream comics are "BS, crap, and confusing" compared to the animated titles, how many of you posters here actually read any of the mainstream bat titles consistantly?

If you do continually read the mainstream titles and the animated titles, who here prefers the animated one's, and why?

I am a dedicated reader of the mainstream titles. I also enjoy reading the animated titles. For those of you putting down the mainstream titles, I sure hope you read them before judging them, because they offer a lot more than you may think.

My first Bat comic was an animated title, and I enjoyed it a lot, mainly because I was a huge BTAS fan. But as I read more and more of the animated titles, I found them to be too 1-dimensional storywise. I'm a bigger fan of reading than I am into art. So I moved into the mainstream comics. I found it was easier to catch on than I thought.

I agree, let's save the animated Bat titles, but not at the expense of putting down the mainstream comics that started it all.

[Clayface]

I completely agree with you, Beyond Batman.
I too read the mainstream comics, and love them.

I saw the post you're referring to that puts down the mainstream comics, and it seems like a very ignorant post. It aggrevated me to see that, but I just bit my lip instead of starting an argument about it.

I'd like to see the animated titles saved, but this putting down of the mainstream titles has got to go - its just silly.

[kid_flash]

I read the three main mainstream Bat-books ('Tec, Batman, Gotham Knights), and I absolutely adore them. They're some of the finest comics out there, and definitely tell some of the greatest Batman stories. I eagerly anticipate Bruce Wayne: Muderer? and Bruce Wayne: Fugitive.

As for the animated titles...I just can't get into them. I love the animated universe and Bruce Timm's style is one of the coolest ever, but I just can't get into the animated comics. If someone could recommend some of the best ones (specific issues, my budget doesn't allow for any more monthlies), I'll definitely pick them up.

Along those lines, if anyone wants a recommendation on some of the great Bat-books out there, I'd gladly hand over a list.

But also, not just the Bat-books, nearly every title DC puts out is great. I read 20 comics a month, and 15 of those are mainstream DC. It does take some time to understand them (there's a ton of continuity in there), but it is possible, and there are tons of websites out there that can tell you everything you need and want to know about any character.

[Clayface]

As far as the animated-style comics, the best of the runs was the first one - they had the best stories and felt the most like the actual show.

[Beyond Batman]

Kid_FLash, I too am excited to see what is in store for us with the Batman 10 Cent Adventure.

To you non-mainstream readers: if you guys want to dip your feet into the pool of mainstream Batman comics, pick up this book, it'll only cost you 10 cents!!! What a steal!

[Brian Cruz]

I currently get every Bat-title except Azrael (why won't they cancel that already?!). In fact, I get more than half of all the DC Universe comics. I think the main Bat-titles are the best they've been since I started collecting them in 1996. I almost always read those before I read the animated titles, though I don't think those are as awful as some others do.

BTW, does this thread belong here, or in the Batman, Superman and Beyond Board?

[Beyond Batman]

Well, this thread is a response to a particular thread that is on this board. "We can save the TAS comics!" I'm just sticking up for all the Bat readers out there who read more than just the animated titles.

[James Harvey]

I read the mainstream titles as well. I do admit sometimes they aren't really accessible. Some of the huge crossover stories can be tiresome. But for all the people who want to try them - I recommend jumping on the books in December during DC's jump ion event, where all the books will be accessible to new readers. Plus Batman: The 10 Cent Adventures is also a must. I can't wait to see how comic shops and DC takes advantage of this truly innovative issue.

[Samhaine]

Originally posted by Clayface
As far as the animated-style comics, the best of the runs was the first one - they had the best stories and felt the most like the actual show.
Even to the point where each issue was cut into three "acts", just like the show!

For me, the animated titles are some of the last things I read. They just don't have the power they used to.

But the mainstream titles, they're great. 'Tec and Batman are two of my favorite titles right now. I hope we get that GCPD book that was mentioned a month or two ago.

[Joker85]

THe mainstream are soo much more entertaining. Lately the animated titles have been like coloring books!! The stories are simplistic and predictable. But the mainstream are always unpredictable and enjoyable. I get on a regular basis:
Harley Quinn
Batman
Catwoman( used to get them, will start again in Nov. :D )
Robin
and occasionally I'll get Detective, Batgirl, and Gotham Knights.:)

[James Harvey]

I am really hoping the Gotham Police title comes to pass. I really think it would be a great series! Sure there wouldn't be alot of Batman, but I'm convinced Rucka and Brubaker could handle the title. I just hope it's not a $2.50US cover price.

[Joker85]

Hey, with Rucka and Brubaker together, they wouldn't need Batman to sell this title!! I would DEFINITELY get it!:D

[James Harvey]

I think they could really do this. I think it would be dieal for DC's crime book to be set in Gotham - the most crime packed place on the planet!

[MatchesMalone]

I also enjoy the mainstream Bat titles.

What do you guys think about some of the hardcover Batbooks that have come out over the past few years (The Chalice, Harvest Breed, etc.)? What do you guys think about the painted Batman stuff that comes out occasionally?

[ZorBrak]

I just like the animated plot better, Mainstream plots just always go every which way, there are some things in it which always bug me, i think it (mainstream) has an awesome plot too though, just always crazy stuff going on in mainstream comics, No man's land was good, but I still prefer animated, simple and less complexity =simple fun which is how i think comics should be

[joker]

i prefer the main strem comics and i love to read them and i do when ever i can. of course money or i should say lack there of is always problem.

[Calhoun07]

I agree that the lack of money is a serious issue. Especially with the escalating prices of comic books these days.

You know, I was really looking forward to Batmans 10¢ adventures comics, but I am sorely disappointed now as I learned that it's only part one of a story that will continue in ALL of the Batman related titles that month. Sorry, but I guess I am of the opinion that if you start a story in Detective Comics issue whatever, it should continue in NEXT MONTH's issue of Detective Comics. I get tired of all the criss crossing story lines. I would be more inclined to buy Batman and Detective Comics if the story lines were contained to those titles alone. I've been told the reason there are so many Bat titles is because there are different styles to appeal to different fans, but I see it as a device for DC to try to rake in more money.

[TerryMcGuiness]

In response to my so-called "ignorant" post, yes I have read alot of the current mainstream stuff. I'm aware of what is going on and I'm allowed to have my opinion about it. Just because I dont worship at the alter of Frank Miller, Greg Ruka, and Chuck Dixon doesn't make me ignorant.


Mainline is still mired in the NYPDBatman approach which is a step up but really barely better than the Grim n' gritty approach it and every other superhero book has been mired in since people forgot or chose not to remember that comics with human and intelligent stories *did* happen before 1986. Frank Miller and Alan Moore isn't the only way to do superheroes.

The mainstream reality is also a place where crap like Azrael, hyperkewlNinjasewnface Batgirl, crippled Barbra Gordon, dead Commisoner Gordon is allowed to go on. I'm sorry but I find most of this stuff very dour and boring at best and totally loathsome at worse. i

In addition to once again there just seems to be a lot of pissing on tradition for the sake of doing so and the shock value of it, which is main complaint with most mainline superhero comics and why I find the work of Bruce Timm and co. such a great alternative.

I'm not a purist, but I *am* a classicist. I just like a Batman comic to read like a *Batman* comic. No, that doesn't mean 60's show or Schumacher, or even Dick Sprang. One of the most often forgot notes in history was the simple fact that Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams had brought the character back to his dark mysterious root long before Miller and they were able to do it *without* making hima drooling psychotic.

I just feel that if DC insits in going on their so-called "realism" dircetion 9_9 then the least they could do is put some effort into the animated books as to providean alternative for those of us who actually *like* the superhero genre and all the fantasy that goes with it.

Yeah silly me. I guess I'm just sooooo unprogessive and non intellectual for likeing superheroes and costumes. For not beliving that the "realism" trend is the best things to happen to superhero comics ever.

[Joker85]

Dude, calm down! Geez!
Oh, and Commissioner Gordon isn't dead, he's retired!!

[joker]

wooo, anger.....grrrr....terry mad......terry smash!

[halinar]

I did a long time ago, before there were more bat titles than I had toes. Plus the art in several is just not worth me plopping down my money for.

They were good but how many bat titles do we really need a month? If it was just 1-2 with a quality crew on each I would be there in an instant.

[James Harvey]

There are 4 titles I read for sure, the rest I pick up if they sound interesting or look good. BATMAN, DETECTIVE, GOTHAM KNIGHTS, and GOTHAM ADVENTURES are the mainstays. All are (for the most part) real good reads. If DC adds a GCPD comic - I will get it. But...*sigh*...that's another damn spin off...

[TerryMcGuiness]

"dead Commisoner Gordon".

Okay I freely admit typos abound when the rant is long. Still dead or retired I'm not really intrested in a Batman Universe where there isn't a Commisoner Gordon. Even Batman Beyond had Barbra as the commisoner which is to my mind a far better destiny for her than being wheelchair bound hacker lady while ninjachan runs around as BatGirl all because apparently Barbra just wasn't kewl enough

[TerryMcGuiness]

and yeah I guess I got alot of rage when it comes to comics.

I guess because alot of it has to do with the fact that in comics we actually have people calling for so called "realism" and no costumes.

That the sad fact is the only place to really find theses characters and all the things that make them charming and dramatic (not to mention innovation in ways that didnt call for the much touted "realism" but more to do with the characters themselves as they are) has been in the work Timm and co.

The spirit that he captures is a spirit that has been absent and outright shunned and spat upon in the comic pages for a long time now. (and yes I'm aware of astetic things that have come from his work into the comics. Its cool but its surface.)

[Beyond Batman]

Let's put them "fighten words" (country accent) aside. Don't worry, we all respect your opinion. It's actually quite interesting how you view the mainstream titles, and how you compare them to the simplicity of the animated titles.

"One of the most often forgot notes in history was the simple fact that Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams had brought the character back to his dark mysterious root long before Miller and they were able to do it *without* making hima drooling psychotic." -TerryMcguiness

First of all, Batman IS psychotic. There's no way of avoiding that reality. He's pushed love, desire, and self-satisfaction away, our most human emotions, to dress up as a giant bat and fight crime. He dedicated his life building and perfecting his physical prowess, psyche, and intellignce. All of which left no room for a life of happiness.

What makes him intriguing is how he handles his psychosis, and how he uses it to fight evil. Remember, it's insanity that created him. And being the Bat keeps him sane. Maybe that's why we all like Batsie so much, cuz maybe... there's a little "crazy" in all of us.

Barbara Gordon being paralyzed (shot by the Joker), Jason Todd's death (2nd Robin), Jim Gordon retiring as Commisioner, No Man's Land, even Joker's current brain tumor, none of that is brought up in the animated titles. It is, however, in the mainstream titles because it causes conflict, complexity, and dimension, stuff that is dealt with in the "real world."

Sure it's fun to beat the living day-lights out of common bank robbers, purse snatchers, and car theifs, but Batman's real world is more complex than that. There are murderers, rapists, and seriel killers out there... not to mention the criminally insane.

Writing a story where Batman is simply a superhero is fun and entertaining. But behind his cowl, gadgetry, and circle of allies, there is a man. To capture Batman's humanity, how he deals with his human emotions, his ally interaction, and how he fights his pshycological struggle is what the mainstream Bat titles seem to capture. That is why I prefer the mainstream titles over the animated titles.

The animated titles seem to always solve a problem. Batman always finds a solution, Batman always gets the bad guy. But in the mainstream titles, it's not that easy. Sometimes the problems are left unanswered.

I see the animated titles as the "user-friendly" version of Batman. It's fun to read and easy to follow. But for the fan that wants more, the mainstream titles is where it's at.

[Clayface]

Dang. Beyond Batman just summed up everything I was going to say! Nicely put!

[Beyond Batman]

Thanks Clayface. I have a feeling we read the same titles. It seems we see Batman in a similar way. Do you have any "favorite stories" in the Bat comics you can suggest? Knightfall, Dark Victory, and Officer Down are some of my favorites.

[Clayface]

Originally posted by Beyond Batman
Thanks Clayface. I have a feeling we read the same titles. It seems we see Batman in a similar way. Do you have any "favorite stories" in the Bat comics you can suggest? Knightfall, Dark Victory, and Officer Down are some of my favorites.

Well, as I've mentioned before, I grew up on the 80's Batman, so anything from that time is great in my opinion. I love the Jim Aparo and Norm Breyfogle Batman stuff from the 80s the best. I also love the various "Demon" books that came out (Son of the Demon, etc). And then there's all the usual ones: Frank Miller's stuff, Dark Victory/Long Halloween, NML, Officer Down, any of the current titles. And, because I love Clayface so much, any of the old Clayface stories are big favorites of mine.

[Joker85]

I agree with everything the two of you said! The Long halloween, Dark Victory, NML, and Officer Down have all been EXCELLENT storylines. My personal favs that I have reread on several occasions are THe Long Halloween and Dark Victory. These are great ways to interpret Batman's early years.:)

[Bird Boy]

I rarely read comics that much. If I do, it's usually just the Animated ones..I'm more into books. (just finished Batman:Knightfall)..

-BB

[James Harvey]

You summed it up really perfect, Beyond Batman. The current bat books have been great, and the idea of a GCPD has me anxious. The recent stories like THE LONG HALLOWEEN and DARK VICTORY have been some of the best stories churned out. Same with the current run on BATMAN and DETECTIVE COMICS.

[kid_flash]

Can I give another rant in favor of mainstream? Thanks. (Sorry this turned out so long, but I'm passionate about this stuff)

I brought this up on the NML novel thread, but mainstream shows Batman as what he is: A tortured soul. The animated Batman hasn't had it half (heck, even a QUARTER) as bad as this guy. To list all the life-chaning events Batman's been through over the years would be a post in itself. To list all the life-changing events the the animated Batman's been through wouldn't take long.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the animated Batman. I think he's an amazing character and I constantly give praise to the nnow-classic BTAS. But if I had to choose between never seeing the animated Batman again and never reading the comics again, I'd have to dump the animated.

First off, I think people have a real problem with evolution in comics. Everything has to stay the same, Batman always has to win, and his allies can't be killed or go off on their own area. Sh'yeah right. These are ONGOING series. If they don't evolve, they become bland. If they become bland, they don't sell. If they don't sell, there's no more Batman (I don't care how popular Batman is, bland doesn't sell). If there's no more Batman, you can kiss the animated continuity goodbye.

Barbara Gordon's been shot by the Joker, and that makes her ten time more interesting. To be honest, I really don't care for the animated Babs. She's just not very interesting (she was awesome in "Shadow of the Bat," but she lost that over the years and especially into TNBA). But you get to the comic version....wow. She was shot and paralyzed by one of the greatest criminal masterminds of all time, and she goes on as the most reliable person in the DCU. As was said in Gotham Knights #6, "There is hardly a hero on the planet who hasn't come to rely on her abilities." Yet she is constantly tortured by the past, in much the same way as Batman, and that's what pushes her.

And that's just one of the characters besides Batman himself. I could go on and on about Nightwing, Robin (oh boy, ESPECIALLY Robin), Jim Gordon (the reason I stopped calling him "Commissioner Gordon" is because of the comics, and not just Officer Down), Renee Montoya (a background character in the animated series, an up-front character in the comics), nearly all of Batman's villains, and even Harvey Bullock!

Again, I adore the animated continuity. I think it's a stroke of genius. But they are limited by things such as censors, and although I know that is not their fault, it holds the animated series back. If they could go all-out, then maybe my opinion would change ("Two of a Kind" by Bruce Timm from Batman Black and White is one of the greatest Two-Face stories ever). But their limits are their weakness, and mainstream will always win for me.

[Beyond Batman]

"First off, I think people have a real problem with evolution in comics." -kid_flash

I agree kid_flash. Change is good in continuity. It shows how characters can develope and carry on attributes they haven't learned before. Barb as Oracle, Dick as Nightwing... even the new comers. Steph as the Spoiler (Tim's girlfriend) and even Sasha (Bruce's bodyguard).

By the way, does Sasha have a superhero name? I think it was in the recent Batman: DC, but it was cool seeing her and Huntress interact. They have this "catfight thing" going on!

More on continuity, I'm glad they showed Nightwing in the TNBAS. Even using the same voice was a nice touch.

I think they should've added Oracle to the list of evolving some of the animated characters in TNBAS. I think having Babs as Oracle would be a great asset to the animated series. She would offer more diversity by having a physically disabled superhero, and still be a strong part of Batman's team.

[DerekPowers]

yeah, the long halloween and dark victory are really good, probably the best mini series in a long time, um, like 100 times better than last laugh.

i read batman, detective, superman, action, and young justice. those are ones i never miss, although i often pick up (what with all these costly crossovers) man of steel, adventures of superman, robin, gotham knights. actually, i will probably definately get gotham knights for this new 3-parter, it looks shway.

i also been meaning to get some manga more often and independent comics, to try and be a well rounded comic reader. anyone read acme novelty library?? those giant sized issues look sooooo awesome, but i just dont have 10.50 to shell out. one of these days. theres soo many interesting looking indepedent comics, i just dont know which ones to get, plus i usually spend WAY too much money on dc comics, and last laugh just wasnt doing it for me w/ the amount of issues/crossovers it had. it was okay, but i guess its was my bad buying so many crossovers. i kind of got sick of reading about jokerized villians, especially when every book is about like the same thing. oh well, i heard the crossovers were stopping for a while anyway, so thats a good thing imo. but i didnt finish last laugh, still got part 6, and the action and batman from this week, and the and the birds of prey form a few weeks ago that i havent read yet, so maybe if theres a big finale, id say it was only mediorce w/ way too many crossover. anyway, peace.

[James Harvey]

Change is good. I like change. That's why I've been reading these titles for all these years. I love the tweists and turns the creators throw in. Granted - not all of them work. Larry Hama was the biggest mistake since Joel Schumacer (Batman does not call a crook "Turkey!!"). I love the current incarnation of Barbara Gordan. She is in contact with all of DC's hero and is tragically tortured like Batman. Like Batman, she faces what happened to her every day. If she was still Batgirl, she'd be as one dimensional as she was when introduced.

No Man's Land was anothe rinteresting change which brought out alot in the characters. Jim Gordan was so fleshe dout during that arc. I learned so much about him, more than I though I ever would (notice how he's been absent for awhile...). The tragic ending to NML just made Gordan more real than ever before.

Batman also has the best supporting cast of any character I Know. Such a diverse set of interesting characters.

Batman: TAS is what is Great about Batman. The comics are the real deal.