"Batman: Dead End" Talkback (Spoilers)

[Batboy]

"Batman: Dead End" (2003) Talkback (Spoilers)


Plot Outline: The Joker has escaped from Arkham and Batman must once again bring him in - once and for all. Unfortunately for the bat, there is something even more sinister than the Joker waiting in the alley for the dark knight detective..

Starring:
Clark Bartram ... Batman
Andrew Koenig ... The Joker

Runtime: 8 min
Country: USA (http://www.imdb.com/Sections/Countries/USA/)
Language: English (http://www.imdb.com/Sections/Languages/English/)
Color: Color (http://www.imdb.com/List?color-info=Color&&heading=13;Color)
Certification: USA:Not Rated (http://www.imdb.com/List?certificates=USA:Not%20Rated&&heading=14;USA:Not%20Rated)

(Batboy note)
I just downloaded this short-film by director Sandy Collora and I think it's quite entertaining. This proves that a Batman in tights CAN look cool if done right and used when it's dark and not during daytime (Batman '66 comes to mind :p). After seeing this I almost wish that Bale wore these tights in BATMAN BEGINS :D.

Comments?

[Lord Dalek]

It was okay for the first few minutes but went down hill when the Xenomorphs randomly showed up.

[ManicWebb]

Manic's Reactions
Okay.
Okay.
Cool.
Not bad.
Not bad at all.
This is nice.
What?
ALIEN?!
Okay, now this is getting ridiculous...
That's it. I'm watching Grayson again.

[Batboy]

I didn't like the Aliens/Predators that popped up all of a sudden either but I liked the Batman/Joker stuff that was shown earlier.

Perhaps their appearances were a nod to the Batman VS Aliens/Batman VS Predator comics?

I didn't like the way Batman moved. It was the Michael Keaton movement taken to the extreme imo.

[Style]

Is it available for Download FREE and LEGALLY somewhere?

[Conan-san]

Is it available for Download FREE and LEGALLY somewhere? IFILM.

On the film, having watched Aliens before hand realy made it for me. The fact that you can hear laughter does hint that the joker made it out alive out of his husttle with that other Alien, no doubt becomeing some benifatctor for the end of the human race.

I liked it.

[Batboy]

Is it available for Download FREE and LEGALLY somewhere?
I got it from http://www.collorastudios.com/projects/bde/bdemain.htm

[BonyT]

Okay, I admit that I thought the Aliens & Preds were a little corny when I first saw Dead End as well -- but come on, guys, it's not as if Collora just invented that, you know. As Batboy mentioned, Batman vs. Aliens and Batman vs. Predator are both entire series in DC comics; so there was plenty of precedent in the comics. I don't think it's exactly fair to ridicule the Alien & Predator elements of Dead End as though they just came out of left field or something.

In fact, *IF* a complaint is to be made along those lines, it would probably be just the opposite -- not that Collora went too wild, but that he doesn't bring anything new, anything genuinely of his own to this film (or its followup, World's Finest). His scenes are not especially "his" visions; the best of them (like Batman leaping off the building with crouched legs) are visuals taken from other sources, mostly Alex Ross.

And writing certainly isn't Collora's strength either. If you hear any good lines of dialogue in either of his Batman films, you can just about bet that he lifted it from someone -- again, most likely Ross. Where the dialogue is pure Collora creation ... it falls back to the ranks of most fan films.

But, if being slavish to some of the outstanding visuals of Batman comics is his weakness, it's also his strength. The best thing about Dead End is that it does bring some of those Alex Ross panels to life. Collora has produced an homage to some of the best Batman images from the graphic novels -- and I think he actually pulls that off better than anyone else has so far.

I can't agree with the complaints about Batman's movement in Dead End -- at least not entirely. I'll grant that Bartram sometimes moves a bit like somebody who's going through his practiced choreography, as opposed to someone who actually knows how to conduct himself in hand-to-hand combat. But the thing I really appreciate is the freedom of movement he has in the costume. In that sense, Dead End is much closer to comic book Batman's style of movement than any of the big budget feature films so far -- even Begins (which I love).

And the Dead End cowl -- sculpted by Henry Alvarez, btw -- is by FAR the best Batman cowl we've ever seen in live action, period. It's sleek and tight to the head, allowing Bartram unrestricted, easy head movement. The big-budget film cowls, in contrast, all look a bit too massive for the body, and basically fix the actor's head in place. This is evident in certain scenes in all of the big-budget feature films (even Begins -- although it's cowl does seem to allow a somewhat greater range of movement than the Burton or Schumacher ones), and it always makes me cringe a bit.

And that helmet-like look of the big-budget film cowls also stands in marked contrast to the very organic feel of Alvarez' cowl. Those more natural features of the cowl, like the furrows in the brow for example, give the cowl that Bartram wears a certain sort of intimidating quality that the more sculpted big-budget film cowls don't quite get -- Alvarez' cowl seems to convey "angry" Batman better, at least for me.

So in short, while Dead End certainly isn't perfect, I think it did manage to achieve a few things that hadn't been done before. For one, it managed to show some glimpses of the real potential value of an alternative approach to the rubberized/armoured Bat-suits of the big-budget feature films.

[Damien]

I have a wicked slow computer when it comes to videos, so I had to stop it around the time Predator showed up. All I really remember is I really liked the Joker in this.

[Batboy]

The Joker was scary! He looked really freaky and made Nicholsons Joker look like some nice guy (or something). I didn't like his laughter very much though.

Ah, just IMAGINE what the make-up artists will do with The Joker in the BEGINS sequel :D. Can't wait, can't wait!

[Michael24]

I liked it up until the first twist in the alley. (The Batman costume was pretty sweet, and The Joker rocked. Hard to believe he's played by Boner from GROWING PAINS!) But from that point on, it was technically well-made for a fan-film, but that was about it. I can't call it an amateur fan-film, because there were some professionals behind (and in front) of the camera. I love the first BATMAN VS. PREDATOR mini-series, but something about DEAD END just didn't do much for me. I'd watch it again over BATMAN & ROBIN, though, and probably also BATMAN BEGINS ( :D ), but not the first three.

[Hades]

Where do I download this from?

[Batboy]

I got it from http://www.collorastudios.com/projects/bde/bdemain.htm
There you go...

[DR.MID-NITE]

Don't forget the sequel..."World's Finest". It stars the same guy who plays Bats. But, also has Supes, two-face and Luther. It is also available to download at Ifilm.

[BonyT]

Don't forget the sequel..."World's Finest". It stars the same guy who plays Bats. But, also has Supes, two-face and Luther. It is also available to download at Ifilm.Yep -- Collora's World's Finest is essentially a live-action version of the STAS "World's Finest" 3-parter, but with Two-Face substituted for Joker.

It's done as a "trailer" for a non-existent summer '05 WB blockbuster. I always figured Collora did it sort of in response to WB shelving their short-lived Batman vs. Superman project -- kind of his idea for what would've been a good format for such a movie.

[Batboy]

Finally! I've had a hard time looking for the Worlds Finest trailer :D.
Thanks for the Heads Up!

[Hades]

Okay, the movie does not seem to load for me. It is just stuck at the quick time icon and does nothing.

[Batboy]

Okay, the movie does not seem to load for me. It is just stuck at the quick time icon and does nothing.
Try and save it to your harddrive instead of opening it from the site (if that's what you did) otherwise, try opening it with vlc.

[Hades]

Try and save it to your harddrive instead of opening it from the site (if that's what you did) otherwise, try opening it with vlc.I tried both, but when I right clicked and put save as, it told me invalid folder. I'm only able to get the Low Res version, which is fine because it sucked.

Well okay, it was awesome until the Aliens and Predators showed up. They have NO business being in Batman. I don't care about the comic crossovers, I refuse to read them. This should have been strictly a Batman story only.

I do want to know though, how did they make this? I thought it was CGI, but it is with real actors, and it seems like all of the suits were actual costumes and not just scenes ripped out of the movies like I thought they were. Of course, it could still be they just ripped scenes out of every movie minus Batman and Joker.

[Batboy]

Yeh, I'm not even sure about that myself. I think it looks like people are dresed up :confused:.

I like the Batman/Joker stuff though.

[ManicWebb]

Well okay, it was awesome until the Aliens and Predators showed up. They have NO business being in Batman. I don't care about the comic crossovers, I refuse to read them.
Thank you! Personally, I find that the only thing written worse than a DC/Marvel crossover is when DC crosses over with an overrated movie franchise like Predator.

Oops. Did I say that aloud?

[BonyT]

I do want to know though, how did they make this? I thought it was CGI, but it is with real actors, and it seems like all of the suits were actual costumes and not just scenes ripped out of the movies like I thought they were. Of course, it could still be they just ripped scenes out of every movie minus Batman and Joker.No, no, there were no scenes "ripped out of" any of the movies at all. It was all actors hired just for this project, with costumes that Collora and his team designed from the ground up.

In one sense, it's not fair to call Dead End a "fan film," since Sandy Collora has some real Hollywood connections that most fan-filmmakers don't have access to (as I pointed out earlier, Henry Alvarez sculpted the Batman cowl for Dead End) -- and in fact, I understand that Collora (who I think has mostly worked on commercials up to this point) was recently hired to direct a feature film. Still, this was a labor of love for Collora, made because of his passion for the Batman character and his desire to see something closer to the comic book Batman translated to live-action film -- and made independent of any studio, with private money.

Collora also filmed a 15-minute "Making Of" for Dead End, which I think is quite interesting. It'll show you the whole process of hiring the actors, designing the costumes, etc., if you're interested.

... And I'll just say again, for the record, I think that those who obsess only on the (admitted) goofiness of the Alien & Predator elements of Dead End are missing out on some of the really new & neat things that Collora achieved with this short movie, as far as opening up the possibilities of how to present Batman in live-action film.

[Hades]

I do agree with that. I'd love to see that Joker on the big screen. Even the Batman suit was awesome.

[Conan-san]

Though, Grayson is about 1000x better,

There's no shame in admitting it, Dead end is great but Grayson just ozzes quality.

[Batboy]

I'm sorry but...what's Grayson? Grayson as in "Richard 'Dick' Grayson"? :confused:

[Conan-san]

I'm sorry but...what's Grayson? Grayson as in "Richard 'Dick' Grayson"? :confused: AFAIK, "Grayson" is a trailer for a fictional movie (of the same name) that features a future in which Batman is killed and Grayson has a wife and kids. Dick trys to find Batman's killer however the head of police is on his case about that and eventualy he takes the mantle of Robin again.

Throw in some JL cameos, Superman finaly geting hurt and the "Super Burely Brawl" Theme and you have awsome in it's pureset form.

[Robin2099]

Thank you! Personally, I find that the only thing written worse than a DC/Marvel crossover is when DC crosses over with an overrated movie franchise like Predator.

Oops. Did I say that aloud? Then your missing out since the first Batman/Predator story was fantastic with great art and excellent story pacing and is one of the best Batman stories.

[Batboy]

AFAIK, "Grayson" is a trailer for a fictional movie (of the same name) that features a future in which Batman is killed and Grayson has a wife and kids. Dick trys to find Batman's killer however the head of police is on his case about that and eventualy he takes the mantle of Robin again.

Throw in some JL cameos, Superman finaly geting hurt and the "Super Burely Brawl" Theme and you have awsome in it's pureset form.
Sounds pretty neat. Where can I find this? :).

[ManicWebb]

Sounds pretty neat. Where can I find this? :).
http://theforce.net/fanfilms/nonsw/grayson/

Booya.

[Batboy]

thanks alot :D.

[Batboy]

That Graysonfilm was pretty nice. What's up with the League? Is that hot chick Huntress? Figures since she used a crossbow :).

[BonyT]

That Graysonfilm was pretty nice. What's up with the League? Is that hot chick Huntress? Figures since she used a crossbow :).You're talking about the one who shot the crossbow bolt into the Robin "R," right? It was Selena Kyle (Catwoman).

[BonyT]

AFAIK, "Grayson" is a trailer for a fictional movie (of the same name) that features a future in which Batman is killed and Grayson has a wife and kids. Dick trys to find Batman's killer however the head of police is on his case about that and eventualy he takes the mantle of Robin again.

Throw in some JL cameos, Superman finaly geting hurt and the "Super Burely Brawl" Theme and you have awsome in it's pureset form.So you really liked Grayson that much better than either of Collora's films, huh? Well, I'll admit that Grayson was certainly more original than either Dead End or World's Finest, both of which were little more than homages to already existing storylines.

I have to confess, though, I had a little trouble getting past the higher "cheesiness" factor of the Grayson costumes. I realize that's not really a fair criticism, since the Grayson filmmaker was working with only about half the budget that Collora had for Dead End. But there were certain scenes where the cheapness got to me a little bit, like the scene where Robin hangs the criminal up with some ultra-bright yellow handcuffs. Frankly, I'm not sure it wouldn't have been better perhaps to have Dick return to action as Nightwing rather than as the too-technicolor-for-live-action Robin.

... And, btw, it's not completely certain that Batman actually is dead in Grayson. There's one brief scene where Batman's silhouette appears behind Dick Grayson, if you watch closely.

[Batboy]

Why would Selina use a crossbow? It's just not her style imo:confused:.
She's hot anyway :D.