Justice League Unlimited "The Cadmus Saga" Official Talkback (Spoilers)

[Style]

Special Talkback.

While all the episodes comprising the Cadmus Saga have their own talkbacks, the saying, "The whole is greater than the sum of the parts" is also apt. So, for any comments about the Cadmus Saga as a whole, or sevearal parts of it, go here. You can rate the whole saga and talk about your feelings about it.

NOTE: If your comments only pertain to the final episode of the Saga, "Divided We Fall," Please use that talkback. For comments on more than just one episode, use this.

[Mugen]

So "Epilouge" is not part of the Cadmus Saga?

[Style]

So "Epilouge" is not part of the Cadmus Saga?No.

[Alba Aulbath]

As a whole... Cadmus was a disappointment, I think.

While I do enjoy the events that have taken place, I was expecting something with more shock value, like our first dip in Cadmus in "Fearful Symmetry" that had been such a masterpiece. "Ultimatum" had been thrilling. "Question Authority" was pretty darned decent, but in conclusion?

Cadmus did not provide with much shock value as I had originally hoped.

I'm hoping they'll continue to show up in future episodes, since this little saga of theirs felt almost like a waste of time. Not MY time; I enjoyed watching, rest assured, but Cadmus as a whole was not that great.

Three stars outta five. Good, was okay - but I know these guys can do better. Mundane is almost worse than laughably bad.

[Movie-Brat]

I saw the episode, it's an awesome episode; one of the best parts of the epiusode is Green Arrow's speech.

[Hockey Mask]

Loved it! Loved it! Loved it! Loved it! Loved it! Loved it! Loved it! Loved it!
I have no idea why this wasn't the season finale though. I will hold out until next week before I do too much complaining though. Not only should it have been the season finale...it should have been the series finale...my God...what have I said!!! :sweat:

[The Frog]

I loved it. Justice League keeps topping itself. This is probably my favorite arc so far. 5/5

[CyberCubed]

While some parts were "meh", the finale made up for it.

Superman took on his two greatest foes in one (Luthor and Braniac), which have been his main villains all throughout S:TAS.

If anything, Cadmus provided the closure that S:TAS never gave us.

Now if only they can give us closure to Batman as well.

[Archangel2385]

I loved its realism and unpredictability. After the events of "Starcrossed," it seems only natural that SOMEONE would have reservations about allowing the JLU to have so much power. It also had many twists and turns I was not at all prepared for, such as the whole Brainaic plot. In addition, this arc showcased the Question in all his paranoid glory. What can I say, it's had some of the best episodes in animation history IMHO, and it ended in a very satisfying manner. As close to perfect as you'll get, IMO :D .

[Gpoliceman]

The Cadmus Saga was amazing.

I have no complaints, only complements.

My favorite parts were how it tied into past shows/continuity. For example, the Cadmus arc began all the way back with the S:TAS episode "Legacy". After "Divided We Fall", Superman has finally gained back the public trust. Honestly, do you think next season anybody is going to mention Superman is STILL not trusted? I don't think so. Superman is definitely trusted again. It's things like that which made the Cadmus arc so special to me. The Flash was able to show he's not immature and unworthy of being a part of the team too.

This was definitely a "Crisis" level event. It tied so well into the past episodes and tv series (B:TAS, S:TAS, BB) that it really held me on the edge of my seat. It's like I waited over a decade to see this story. That's truly something special. You can't say that about any other tv show on tv now or ever. I waited over a decade to see a story that tied into the past unfold, and it was worth it.

Greg

[Alpha Man]

How can you guys give it five stars? I only give five stars if it's absolutely perfect! I guess ratings aren't what they used to be. People are just easily impressed.:sad:

Yes, it was cool. But I've seen better.

<edit> For example, the Cadmus arc began all the way back with the S:TAS episode "Legacy". actually, Cadmus began way before that. Click here to find out (http://jl.toonzone.net/cadmus/cadmus1/cadmus1.htm)

[Southern Dandy]

I enjoyed this arc overall, but I don't think the payoff lived up to the buildup. It went downhill once Braniac showed up, exactly like "Knight Time" in the Superman series. "Knight Time" was a perfectly paced, brilliantly written and very entertaining episode until Brainiac's appearance, which lead to an ending that was much weaker than all that had lead to it. I loved the suspense generated in "The Doomsday Sanction", "Question Authority", and most of "Panic In The Sky", but that episode's conclusion was weak and did not live up to the high expectations that the previous episodes had created. Maybe I just didn't enjoy it as much as others because I haven't seen much of the Superman series, but Braniac just seemed like a copout. "Divided We Fall" had some great dialogue from The Green Arrow and a touching scene with all of the league members saving The Flash by using all of their strength together, but otherwise it was a huge letdown.

[DLM]

Its hard to give the Cadmus storyarc an overall grade, it was very up and down.If we count episodes like Heart of Darkness and The Balance as part of the storyarc, it definately had its weaknesses. However I think the whole idea was a bold experiment that gave us some of the best episodes in the DCAU to date, Namely: doomsday sanction, divided we fall, and task force x and to a lesser extent, some very good supporting episodes like question authority, flashpoint, and double date. Even the rest of the episodes in the arc never really fell below the level of average to good (dark heart, the balance, ultimatum)

[Batman Fan]

****

Even though I thoroughly enjoyed part 4, I think Cadmus ended in part 3. Brainiac became the focus of the final part and it just became another villan trying to destroy the world thing. I wanted to see the JL vs. the governmet, fighing normal people who only want protection from JL and fear that they won't stand a chance against them. I consider Divided We Fall as a stand alone episode not tied in with Cadmus. That's where Cadmus fail, it started great, but it got cut off by Brainiac. I'm really hoping Cadmus is still around for Season 3 because there's always that possibility the League could go rouge.

[DLM]

****

Even though I thoroughly enjoyed part 4, I think Cadmus ended in part 3. Brainiac became the focus of the final part and it just became another villan trying to destroy the world thing. I wanted to see the JL vs. the governmet, fighing normal people who only want protection from JL and fear that they won't stand a chance against them. I consider Divided We Fall as a stand alone episode not tied in with Cadmus. That's where Cadmus fail, it started great, but it got cut off by Brainiac. I'm really hoping Cadmus is still around for Season 3 because there's always that possibility the League could go rouge.but see... that was the brilliance of the Brainaic ending.... I have yet to hear an idea of how they could have had a straightforward Cadmus v JL show-down as the season end and still have kept true to the motiviations and characters they have been building all season. We had our miniwar in Panic in the Sky. Thats as far as they could take us as far as direct confrontation between the League and Cadmus. Both wanted to do good, Cadmus was misguided. That had all been established. There HAD to be a third element at that point unless you wanted to watch 30 minutes of animated characters debating ethics. No, instead they gave us an action/adventure ending that let our heroes confront their problems, our villains at least start to realize their flaws (i'll rip Epilouge when the time is right), and did it all while giving us some fangasm, wildly entertaining action scenes. I dont see how it could have been done better

[Batman Fan]

Originally posted by DLM
but see... that was the brilliance of the Brainaic ending.... I have yet to hear an idea of how they could have had a straightforward Cadmus v JL show-down as the season end and still have kept true to the motiviations and characters they have been building all season. We had our miniwar in Panic in the Sky. Thats as far as they could take us as far as direct confrontation between the League and Cadmus. Both wanted to do good, Cadmus was misguided. That had all been established. There HAD to be a third element at that point unless you wanted to watch 30 minutes of animated characters debating ethics. No, instead they gave us an action/adventure ending that let our heroes confront their problems, our villains at least start to realize their flaws (i'll rip Epilouge when the time is right), and did it all while giving us some fangasm, wildly entertaining action scenes. I dont see how it could have been done better

You know, I was trying to think up some good points to contrast your post, and I realize you're absolutely right, so I go into the talkback threads, and realize, you're absolutely right. Though, I still think there's always that chance that Cadmus might resurface again, I don't think its over yet.

[Bruce Kent]

How can you guys give it five stars? I only give five stars if it's absolutely perfect! I guess ratings aren't what they used to be. People are just easily impressed.:sad:

Yes, it was cool. But I've seen better.

<edit> actually, Cadmus began way before that. Click here to find out (http://jl.toonzone.net/cadmus/cadmus1/cadmus1.htm)
Oh I agree... TT: The End was perfect, not this Cadmus thing...

Also, that's his speculation, not literal fact of Cadmus would be about.

[swarlock]

****

Even though I thoroughly enjoyed part 4, I think Cadmus ended in part 3. Brainiac became the focus of the final part and it just became another villan trying to destroy the world thing. I wanted to see the JL vs. the governmet, fighing normal people who only want protection from JL and fear that they won't stand a chance against them. I consider Divided We Fall as a stand alone episode not tied in with Cadmus. That's where Cadmus fail, it started great, but it got cut off by Brainiac. I'm really hoping Cadmus is still around for Season 3 because there's always that possibility the League could go rouge.
I tried to explain this to a friend of mine and he kind of scoffed at the superheros going against The Gorvernment and Vica Versa
because it hits too close to home. in a way he's right and yet he failed to see what's really happening.

He believes most people should be grateful for their help without question. I understood what he was saying but even so
I find what most of my real heros do very questionable these days as well. But I digress.

The Cadmus Conspiracy arc was fine up to a point but I had a feeling it wasn't going to go the way everyone expected.

And I'm glad it didn't.

[TurtleTitan]

I loved the whole arc, but I have a question.

Apparently, the main priority of Cadmus was to get rid of the Justice League to prevent them to do anything bad like the Justice Lords. But as it went on, they actually TRY to get the Justice League to go bad (as what happened with the Supes/Marvel fight). It would be their downfall, but they're going bad anyway!

[Jor-El]

For the first time, possibly EVER, I have absolutely nothing bad to say. (Provided we're not talking about "Epilogue" anyway. :)) This was just simply a GREAT story. I hope that JLU season 3 will be as exciting and fun to watch.

5 stars from me.

[Sketch]

Freak'n awesome stuff. And a nice conclusion. And hooray for the Hall of Justice in the works!

I thought Superman already told Lois he was Clark. Well... I guess maybe not.

Flash was amazing! He sure took his clone out in a hurry.

I have a hard time believing we've seen the last of Braniac. But seriously... how on earth did Flash stop him? I feel like something isn't right with this. But it was too awesome to complain so... meh... whatever.

[Bruce Kent]

He tapped into the speed force. It's supposed to be one of the strongest powers.

[Jiggle-Bot]

I think alot of people myself included expected cadmus to play a different role in the finale.

Possibly a Cadmus verse the League showdown - not just a super brawl but a showdown of ideology "Is the JLU too strong for its own good?" with major repercussions and moral mistakes being made by the heroes.

In the end Cadmus was no match for the league. Galatea and the Ultiman were decimated in by the non 7 Leaguers.

The conspiracy of a covert and complicated conspriacy theory didn't really play out.

What we got instead was a look at the dark side of the league and why they are not Justice Lords.

There were 2 major story arcs running through season 1 and most of season 2 - Cadmus and Justice League going Lords. People thought the finale was gonna play the 2 off each other - what happened was that Cadmus fizzled out but the second arc was resolved in an amazing curve ball of a Brainiac/Luthor/JL7 mega smack down

[Revelator]

Dark Heart, Fearful Symmetry, Task Force X and Ultimatum all effectively built up the tension between a worried government and an overpowerful, arrogant league, and Doomsday Sanction practically put the looming conflict on the map. I enjoyed the finale, but it didn't seem to really fit with the episodes that had gone before.
I'd rather have seen Luthor become president. I'd rather have seen batman's suspicions and distrust, so aptly intimated by the final shot of Doomsday Sanction, lead to something drastic. I'd rather have had a tension-wracked and divided league storm Washington to take down Luthor. I'd rather have had events nearly lead up to armageddon between the government and league. Those are only my preferences--I felt that the story hinted at in the earlier episodes was more interesting than what actually happened in the finale.
Cadmus was effectively hyped, and then purposely nipped in the bud so we could get the usual Superhero/Supervillain show-down, with a return to black/white morals, though this time it was masterfully animated and gave the Flash a moment in the sun, along with a few glancing nods toward the Justice Lords and Superman's dilemma (which suffered from being squeezed into and once and for all addressed within the confines of one episode). Some folks seem to think this was neccesary, otherwise the only resolution would have been lots of speeches. Bunk. But what is true is that if the government/league conflict intimated in the earlier episodes had truly bloomed, the results would have probably been too intense, morally-gray, and inflammatory for a show still aimed at kids.
The JLU staff was ambitious enough to build up to a coming league/government conflict, but that conflict ultimately couldn't be attempted due to the restrictions and expectations governing the show and its place. That's a pity. I was more thrilled by "Doomsday Sanction" than by the finale, though I gasped when the BFG fired and cheered when Flash had his moments.
Was the Cadmus arc a let-down? Well, it had a swell build-up, followed by a retreat from the very situations intimated by the build-up. Poor old Cadmus turned out to be wholly unneccesary after all, since the League was just suffering from a bit of hubris. I guess this direction was the safest one, and a easier to go down, but after the dread, suspense, ambiguity and disorientation raised by Doomsday Sanction, the finale felt like a neccisitated cop-out. A terrific, entertaining piece of work, yet a decisive retreat from the issues raised in earlier episodes. And for the record, I hope to not see Braniac for a very, very long time.

[Hockey Mask]

I doubt we see Brainiac again on JLU. Only because of the supposed short lifespan of the show. I would could consider myself lucky if we end up with another 26 episodes. I doubt if that enough for us to see Brainiac come back around the horn...but he is a LoD staple...