Interested in a TZ book club?

[Shnay]

Toon Zone is a great place for discussion on a variety of topics, as there are many intelligent people here who have lots of interesting, insightful opinions to share. I would love to see people here on TZ have one of these great discussions about a piece of literature. I really enjoy reading and talking about books, and I know many other people here do too, so what do ya say? Are you interested in a Toon Zone book club?

It would be a bit difficult to organize, but definitely not impossible. I'd be willing to coordinate the thing if anyone is interested. So, to anyone still reading this, I pose to you these questions:

Would you read a book people agreed upon and participate in a discussion about it?
How long would you like to read the book? Two weeks? A month? More?
Does the length of the book matter to you? If so, how long is too long?
What kind of book would you like to read (fiction, philosophy, sci-fi, history, etc.)?
Would you like to read a "classic" or something contemporary?

I'd appreciate any feedback on this, even if you're not sold on the idea right away, but might join in later. Thanks.

Side note: My guess is that this has been brought up before, but I searched a few different forums and couldn't find anything about a book club. If anyone can find a thread where this was already discussed, could you throw me a link? Also, I don't know if this would fit better on this board or the Cafe. Maybe a mod could mirror it if anyone turns out to be interested.

[The Penguin]

Side note: My guess is that this has been brought up before, but I searched a few different forums and couldn't find anything about a book club. If anyone can find a thread where this was already discussed, could you throw me a link? Also, I don't know if this would fit better on this board or the Cafe. Maybe a mod could mirror it if anyone turns out to be interested.I've been here a while and I don't recall ever seeing a thread such as this. If you look at our lovely CookieS-made logo, The Entertainment Board is the home of book discussion (if people would discuss it).

[SSJPabs]

I've been here a while and I don't recall ever seeing a thread such as this. If you look at our lovely CookieS-made logo, The Entertainment Board is the home of book discussion (if people would discuss it).I think this is a great idea.

Few questions though. How do you select the books? Is something like "America: The Book" acceptable? What about Harry Potter since there are so many Potter haters as well as lovers. Do we vote on what book? What about genres?

[Natey]

great idea, i hope Toon Zone can make a book club. right now we could be talking about the BIG harry potter release (which i am a hatter of harry potter) and books you like and have read

~Nate~

[RD!]

Book clubs are tough, we've tried to start one on my board and it's a lot harder to pull off than a Movie/Album of the week. Mostly because if a book sucks it's a lot harder to finish it unlike a movie which can suck but be finished in two hours.

I think to do one we should put together our personal to-read lists and make sort of a master list out of that... I like the idea of two weeks a book (though I guess that depends on the size of the book); keeps it going and it's not like the discussion thread is going to disappear.

[Mike Spartz]

GREAT IDEA! :)

Would you read a book people agreed upon and participate in a discussion about it?
First of all, who is going to decide what book we read? Is it going to be a group decison or an individual one? Second of all, how many people are going to be in this "club?" Do members have to sign up whenever we choose a new book to read? I'm perfectly fine with reading a book that we've all agreed on, I just want to get a better idea of how it'll work. If you need help organizing this club, I'm more than willing to be a team player.

How long would you like to read the book? Two weeks? A month? More?
I'm not online as much as some people here, so I think a months length is perfect for discussion on one book.

Does the length of the book matter to you? If so, how long is too long?
Anywhere from 500-700 pages is good for me.

What kind of book would you like to read (fiction, philosophy, sci-fi, history, etc.)?
I'm mainly interested in mysteries and drama novels like The Good Earth and The Jade Peony. Oh, and I'm a BIG Harry Potter fan! :D :D :D

Would you like to read a "classic" or something contemporary?
I'm okay on anything as long as it's not a play and not non-fiction. I want this club to be about reading novels, strictly novels.

[Shnay]

Few questions though. How do you select the books?My first thought was that everyone interested would suggest something (ideally something that they haven't read yet) and explain why they think it would be a good book for discussion. I think Strawberry Jam's idea is a good one, too. If we find any overlapping interests, we can go from there.


Is something like "America: The Book" acceptable? What about Harry Potter since there are so many Potter haters as well as lovers.Well, we'll see what people want. My opinion is that America: The Book wouldn't generate as much discussion as a number of other books. I really enjoyed the book, but I don't know how much there is to say about it. Plus, that one in particular could easily get political. As for Harry Potter, I think that's a bit of an exception. There's likely to be a huge talkback thread here on TZ regardless of whether this little club gets off the ground or not. I think this book club, should it get going, could get discussion going about books that might not get a talkback here otherwise.


What about genres?I would say that anything that could generate discussion is good. A straight history book wouldn't drum up too much talk, but a book applying a new theory to a historical period might.


Book clubs are tough, we've tried to start one on my board and it's a lot harder to pull off than a Movie/Album of the week. Mostly because if a book sucks it's a lot harder to finish it unlike a movie which can suck but be finished in two hours.Yeah, it'll probably be tough, but I'd like to at least try it. I'd rather have it fail miserably than not try it at all.


I like the idea of two weeks a book (though I guess that depends on the size of the book); keeps it going and it's not like the discussion thread is going to disappear.This is a very good point. Since we don't have to physically "meet" anywhere, the discussion can pick up at anytime. Some timeframe would be good, but it can definitely be kept loose.


Is it going to be a group decison or an individual one? Definitely a group decision.


Second of all, how many people are going to be in this "club?" Do members have to sign up whenever we choose a new book to read.Anyone who wants to be in is more than welcome. There don't have to be any sign-ups; the whole thing can be pretty informal. I'd like to have some level of organization (maybe have people check in if they plan on reading the book we decide on and say how much time they'd like to read it) just so people know what's going on.


I want this club to be about reading novels, strictly novels.That's what I would like, as well. However, if there's a large demand for something else, I think it would be best to serve that demand. We'll see how it goes, and you could always make a case for or against a particular book when/if we discuss possibilities.

These are just a few ideas/opinions I had on the matter. If someone wants to suggest doing something differently and others think it's a good idea, then we'll go ahead with that. I'm definitely open to ideas on this. My plan right now is to see if anyone else is interested over the next few days or so, then we can see if we want to go ahead with deciding on what book to start with.

[Silly McGooses]

This sounds like a cool idea. I'm happy with anything as long as it's reasonably easy to find and it ain't Harry Potter.

[Sailor Chibi Otaku]

I'm for it. As with movies, I am not overly picky when it comes to books.

Currently, I am reading 60 diffetent types of books.

[SSJPabs]

Well thanks for the response to my questions!

I personally prefer Fantasy as my main set of books, with some sci-fi. But I'm also a fan of historical fiction like the Aubrey books (the series that Master and Commander was based off of) and even more straight historical books like "Killing Pablo" by Mark Bowden (who wrote Black Hawk Down), as well as more treatise like works such as "Waging Modern War" by Wesley Clark. However my first love will always be fantasy. Just stay away from the Wheel of Time! :p

Hmm right now I am re-reading the Dragon Star trilogy by Melanie Rawn. This was one of my first post-LOTR fantasy reads back in Junior High. It's got some flaws of course, but also some good points and the ending of Skybowl still gives me shivers.

[PowerZord]

Most of my Literature knowledge is on Puertorrican/Latin American Literature, But I might try English Literature, I gotta take the course anyway this Semester

[purplehairedwonder]

I think that's a great idea. I should have signed up for AP English this year, but I thought my schedule would be too hectic. This could be a good chance to get some of that extra reading in.

Would you read a book people agreed upon and participate in a discussion about it?
Yeah, sure. I think it would be fun. I think we should have some discussion on why or why not to read a certain book, though.
How long would you like to read the book? Two weeks? A month? More?
Depends on the length and time of year. Some points at school get a lot more hectic than others. I think we should decided as we pick the book, as per the length and such.
Does the length of the book matter to you? If so, how long is too long?
Not especially. Honestly, the longer the better for me. I've really been getting into longer reads as of late.
What kind of book would you like to read (fiction, philosophy, sci-fi, history, etc.)?
Personally, I'm a big fantasy/sci-fi junkie, but I'm open to other genres if I get some good reasons to read them.
Would you like to read a "classic" or something contemporary?
Depends. There are some classics that I would like to read/have enjoyed, but others that I haven't. Either is fine, really.

[Delthayre]

I'm certainly interested. My sole demand is at least one Oprah joke of questionable taste per month.


Would you read a book people agreed upon and participate in a discussion about it?
I must admit to a typically out of step sense of taste, but I suppose this would be fair way to forcibly broaden my somewhat narrowly traditional horizons.

How long would you like to read the book? Two weeks? A month? More?
Right now I could manage with a week, but once college begins I would need at least two to be able to reliable make it through any book.

Does the length of the book matter to you? If so, how long is too long?
What kind of book would you like to read (fiction, philosophy, sci-fi, history, etc.)?
I have little aversion to lengthy books and no enmity toward short ones, so I will suffer any length. I don't tend to be terribly constrained by genra prejuidices, however I have little interest in adventure or romance oriented reading. If we could, I should like to add a Conrad Richter novel or two to the mix. He was a top flight author, but a somewhat obscure one.

Would you like to read a "classic" or something contemporary?
I prefer more traditional literature. This does not neccessarily entail classics, but it does predispose me toward them.

[Gaunt]

Good idea!

Would you read a book people agreed upon and participate in a discussion about it?
Of course! I love debate, especially in literary and historical analysis.

How long would you like to read the book? Two weeks? A month? More?
I'd say two weeks. I'm usually a fast reader, but when school starts up I'll need more time.

Does the length of the book matter to you? If so, how long is too long?
What kind of book would you like to read (fiction, philosophy, sci-fi, history, etc.)?
Length doesn't matter to me, so long as the book is enjoyable.

I typically read within the sci-fi genre, but also the fantasy genre as well. I think it would be a great idea, however, if we also go with philisophical books as well (such as Beyond Good and Evil or The Republic).

Would you like to read a "classic" or something contemporary?
I'd work either way, but I'm leaning on "classic." Sure, I like to read sci-fi and fantasy, but I don't think there would be as much debate or analysis as a classical work would.

[Sailor Chibi Otaku]

Would you read a book people agreed upon and participate in a discussion about it?

Yep!! I have to be interested in it, though. If not, I'll have to pass and wait for a book that'll interest me.

How long would you like to read the book? Two weeks? A month? More?

Depends what I do during the day. At times, it'll take me a few hours, depending on the genre of book.

Does the length of the book matter to you? If so, how long is too long?

I'm a bookworm. I am reading 60 different kinds of books right now.

What kind of book would you like to read (fiction, philosophy, sci-fi, history, etc.)?

All but I'm not too big on sci-fi but I do read some sci-fi (I find that they're a lot of fun to write, though).

Would you like to read a "classic" or something contemporary?

Depends on the book.

[Phantasm]

A TZ Book Club is such a fantastic idea!!!!:) I'm all for it!!

[ToOn~g@l]

That sounds awesome. I love to read books and I love finding out about books I have never heard of. I think if we had a book of the month kind of thing and we had a thread where we just talked about that book until the next month rolled around. And I don't care about the page size, just as long as its enjoyable.

[Kury Wagner]

Very cool idea. I love books. =)

Would you read a book people agreed upon and participate in a discussion about it?

Sure, why not?

How long would you like to read the book? Two weeks? A month? More?

Depends on the length of the said book, and my interest in it. Two weeks seems fair, either way.

Does the length of the book matter to you? If so, how long is too long?

I adore longer books, if it's a genre I like. I'm thinking War and Peace would be a teensy bit too long for TZ though. =P

What kind of book would you like to read (fiction, philosophy, sci-fi, history, etc.)?

Well, I'm a fan of most any literature. I favor science fiction/fantasy/mysteries most though. I'm not big on many of the so-called classics however.

Would you like to read a "classic" or something contemporary?
Hah, funny follow-up question, considering what I just said above... if I had to, I suppose I would. Something like Fahrenheit 451 would be cool, that's considered a classic, right? It's late, I dunno.

[sKorpia]

It might be a good idea to take a look at how the Anime Forum does their Anime of the Month threads. I think there needs either to be:

1) a poll to choose the new title (each month, I would prefer; 2 weeks is too little time with the rest of life going on)
OR
2) a random, genre-rotating choice (again, each month) from a master list generated and updated at the top of each new Book Club thread

I agree that hugely popular books that will most likely get or have already gotten their own talkbacks (all the Harry Potters, much as I love them, LOTRs and your "Da Vinci Code"s of the world) should be left out.

I'm also not a reader of non-fiction (with very few exceptions) or of theory or of philosophy. I prefer fiction and have been wanting to get through the works of Ondaatje, Allende, Rushdie, and so forth. Not a very heavy sci-fi or fantasy reader (only ever read DragonLance's initial triology) but I'd like to read Asimov and the other big names in that genre. I'd also be interested in re-reading children's books from my youth. Or new ones. I'm not picky.

That said, I don't think people should go into this book club limited by their perceptions of what they absolutely will and absolutely won't read. A book club is also an opportunity to expose yourself to works you otherwise would not have heard about or even thought of picking up. So suggest a book and I'll do my best to get through it. If I can't, then I'll state that in the discussion along with reasons why. I mean, why something didn't work for one reader is also part of good literary discussions.

Another thing: I think any discussion should come from a fresh reading of the book. So if you've read the book before, you have to read it again if it's the chosen book to see if you still don't like it or at least to better articulate why you really didn't like it. I think this especially pertains to books that may have been required reading at one point for any class at any grade level of education. Ever.

[SSJPabs]

Another thing: I think any discussion should come from a fresh reading of the book. So if you've read the book before, you have to read it again if it's the chosen book to see if you still don't like it or at least to better articulate why you really didn't like it. I think this especially pertains to books that may have been required reading at one point for any class at any grade level of education. Ever.
Then please stay away from to Kill a Mockingbird or Lord of the Flies as I will probably get myself banned if I have to talk about those.

[randomguy]

I officially think this is a fantastic idea. I've fallen out of reading a bit lately, entirely without meaning to, and I think having a TZ book club might help spur me back into the habit. So I'm all for it.

To answer the questions, though....

1. Yes.
2. I think two weeks at least is necessary, but I'd actually lean towards a month. This being an online community, people's attentions can wander, and the extra time would almost certainly come in handy.
3. Not really. I might propose a couple of weeks extension on the deadline if we're reading something in the neighborhood of 700 pages, though.
4. No preference on this one, so long as the books are good fodder for discussion and reflection.
5. I say we alternate between contemporary and classic. To ignore either would be a disservice. For classics, it would probably be preferable to select things that weren't too well-known or widely read (at least among the club), and for contemporary, I say we just hit The New York Times book review and other publications hard and find something interesting.

[SSJPabs]

Considering I can rip through a 900 page book in about 23 hours (even with 6 hours of sleep) if its by Tad Williams (the Otherland books got progressively longer, and my time reading them got shorter and short from several days with City of Golden Shadow to 9 hours for Sea of Silver Light) that if we had 6 weeks for a 700 page book I think I would go insane with impatience.

[Sailor Chibi Otaku]

You also have to take into consideration that we HAVE the book (either own it or our local library has it).

(post 2000!!)

[Zebi]

Would you read a book people agreed upon and participate in a discussion about it?

I love the idea of a book club here at Toon Zone! :)

How long would you like to read the book? Two weeks? A month? More?

A month. Considering that everyone probably has a number of things going on at any given time, this would give participants a chance to either finish the book or at least get a good chunk of it finished.

Does the length of the book matter to you? If so, how long is too long?

Not really; I'll read books of any length if the plot or premise interests me.

What kind of book would you like to read (fiction, philosophy, sci-fi, history, etc.)?

I'd be more interested in a book club that focuses on fiction. I mainly read fantasy and sci-fi, but I'm open to other genres.

Would you like to read a "classic" or something contemporary?

I'm open to either. If I might make a suggestion: could we stay away from recommending contemporary novels that just came out, such as the recent Harry Potter? Not everyone is going to be able to afford (or want to pay for) hardcover books. Also, if the book is a little bit older, there is a better chance that some may be able to find a copy at their local public library.

[Shnay]

Great, we have some people interested. Now I think we should start to talk about how we're going to pick the books we read. It's going to be tough, and I don't have an answer at this point, so let's hear everyone's ideas and see what might work best.


It might be a good idea to take a look at how the Anime Forum does their Anime of the Month threads. I think there needs either to be:

1) a poll to choose the new title (each month, I would prefer; 2 weeks is too little time with the rest of life going on)The thing about this is, with an anime of the month club, there are a limited number of selections about what's available to people. With books, there are more possible selections than any of us could ever hope to read in a lifetime. An early idea I had was that each person could suggest one book, then everyone could vote on what they want to read. But if 20-some people suggest a book and the votes are spread out among those 20-some books, then a book might win with only two or three votes. This would mean that a large majority of the people wouldn't be reading their first choice. This problem may be unavoidable, I really don't know.


2) a random, genre-rotating choice (again, each month) from a master list generated and updated at the top of each new Book Club thread
To make sure I'm understanding you, would this mean each person suggests one book, it gets placed on a list, and then we just move right on down until we've covered each persons choice? I like that idea. If we were to do this, I would strongly suggest that people only nominate a book that they think has wide appeal. I like some pretty weird, experimental fiction, but I wouldn't think of suggesting it if we were to use this model. Likewise, I wouldn't want a hardcore sci-fi fan to suggest something that would quickly turn off those not used to the genre.

Another idea would be to have people "campaign" for the book of their choice. It seems like most people here are pretty open to new books, and if someone can say what they think might be interesting about a book, others might agree to check it out. I know I've bought books based on praise from critics I trust. So if there's a TZ member here whose tastes I tend to agree with praises an author or says he or she heard great things about a book, then I'd be willing to ditch my nomination and go with whatever they suggest. I think if we're going to make this work at all people are going to have to be flexable. This might be hard (I know I can get really stubborn sometimes) but it's necessary, as I doubt we'll ever have total agreement about a book.

Strawberry Jam's idea about everyone posting their "to read" lists is also good. If we did this, we could see where interests match up, even if it's not on a specific book. For example, if I like Author A and someone else likes Author B, both of which have similar writing styles or subject matter, I'd be happy to check out the suggestion from author B.


Another thing: I think any discussion should come from a fresh reading of the book. Agreed.


Not everyone is going to be able to afford (or want to pay for) hardcover books.I'm one of those people. I think the book being available in softcover should be a requirement. Also, the book should probably be something that you could find at the library, but that's a bit harder. The library closest to me is pretty crappy, for example, so I couldn't complain if a book that got picked wasn't available there.

Also, based on everyone's responses, I think it would be best to decide how long everyone has to read it (though the discussion can always pick up whenever people might finish, as brought up before) on a book to book basis. A month to read Catcher in the Rye is probably too long, but two weeks to read Catch-22 when taking work and school into account is probably too short. Then again, maybe a set time for the book club "meeting," like the first of every month, might be easier to remember.

As for what types of books to read, I also think it would be best to stick to novels. We can read plenty of different types of novels, but I don't know if we can really get good discussion going with other types of books. Novels are really where it's at for book discussion. This is my opinion, and if enough people disagree, we'll do different kinds of books.

So, as I see it, the things we want to think about now are:

How do we pick books? (The most important question at this point)
Should the time frame to read a book be decided on a book to book basis, or should it be set as a monthly thing?
Are you okay with "novels only"?
Lastly, should we give this little club a name more creative than Toon Zone Book Club?

There are likely to be a few different opinions on the questions above. Eventually a decision will have to be made, which will mean some people will get their way and some won't. So everyone try to remember that we'll have to be able to compromise to make this work.

[Pupmon 4.0]

I believe having a book club at Toon Zone would be a most marvelous idea.

[sKorpia]

Yeah, I definitely favor the latter of my two proposals, considering what the book club aims to achieve.

I think the master list should probably be generated from Strawberry Jam's idea of people posting their "to read or want to read" lists, then sorted by genre. With a master list in place, we can proceed like so: the following is only an example

Classics [how do we define classics?]
Beowulf (Heaney trans.; are we allowing epic poetry?)
Hamlet (are we allowing Shakespeare/plays?)
Pride and Prejudice

Children's
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Eregon (sp?)
The Little Prince (arguable placement in this genre)

Fantasy (I don't know titles to put here as examples, sorry...)
Novel Title 1
Novel Title 2
Novel Title 3

[Contemporary?] Fiction
Fight Club
The House of the Spirits
Watership Down
(what about collections of short stories?)

Sci-Fi
[What's Asimov written?]
Ender's Game
Hitchhiker's Guide

So . . . let's say the club's up and running by August 1. The first book up is Beowulf. Everybody's got the month of August to read it. In September, we all start talking about Beowulf and have the month of September to read Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. In October, we talk about Charlie and read Fantasy Novel Title 1. So on and so forth. In theory. Yes?

I've pointed out some possible issues in the parenthetical/bracketed remarks above, but they can be worked out later. I'm assuming the Mystery, Romance, and Horror genres will probably make their ways onto the master list as well. I guess it really all depends on the lists people generate, per Jam's proposal.

I like the idea of having a new discussion start at the beginning of every month. It's an easy-to-remember deadline for when the book should be completely or mostly read by and people can adjust their reading habits to a fixed date.

I'm not fond of the "campaigning" idea as I believe it follows the same line of logic as the poll option for choosing which books to read. Then the campaign becomes the major focus, not the book eventually chosen to be read.

I'll leave creative naming to others.

[Shnay]

What about something like this:

We sort the names of everyone interested alphabetically. The first person on the list, let's call him Adam A. Adamson, proposes one book. The rest of us can read descriptions of the book and maybe look at some of the reviews for it. If anyone thinks they might have a problem with the book (for example, one of the books I would like to read is described as having a complex narrative structure that you really have to work through) then they could ask if Adam had any other suggestions in mind. If enough people object to a book for a reason beyond "I don't want to read that," then Adam would be encouraged (but not forced) to make another choice. Again, we're going to have to compromise, so if a book is proposed that you don't particularly want to read, maybe you could read it anyway and see what you think. And if you propose a book that a lot of people are apprehensive about, maybe you could pick another book.

I like this idea, as it incorporates some discussion about what book gets chosen, but also has somebody who has the final say so it won't be left up to a vote across 25 books. People like me near the end of the alphabet kinda get the shaft, but I'm okay with it if the Zelda Z. Zeldansons are too.

I think this would also allow for genres to alternate without making a rotating list of every genre out there. If we have two futuristic sci-fi novels in a row, and someone proposes a third, the club could ask that that person suggest another book.

[Ben]

Sci-Fi
[What's Asimov written?]
Ender's Game
Hitchhiker's Guide


I don't have much to contribute to this thread other than, WHAT'S ASIMOV WRITTEN? He wrote like two million books! Not that I hold it against you, there are some pretty serious holes in my knowledge as well.

Seriously though, cool idea, especially because I have time to read now.

Just to throw something out there, I think it should be either new books or obscure but accessible books. Otherwise I, and I'm sure some others, will have read most of the selections for science fiction (and possibly a few other genres as well). Which of course would mean that my reward for slogging through genres I don't like will be... a month of nothing.

EDIT: I like Shnay's idea.

Oh, and WHAT'S ASIMOV WRITTEN?

[sKorpia]

I know. Interestingly enough for a Star Trek fan, I've never had much of an interest in sci-fi books (and that includes Star Trek novels and comic books). I recognize the names Philip K. Dick, Asimov, Adams; I've just never read any of their work. My geekishness comes in other forms.

Minor question but what about triology or multi-part works? Hypothetically, if LOTR were chosen (I know it won't be), does that mean that 3 months in a row are devoted to the triology?

The only true obstacle I see in the success of this endeavour would be a lack of dedication among readers. I don't really care about if I want to read the book that's chosen (unless it's horror, from which I abstain due to my intense dislike of nightmares). That's not the point for me.

[Shnay]

I would suggest staying away from multi-part books unless they can really stand on their own. The previously mentioned Ender's Game, for example, is the first of, like, 73 books, but it has a solid ending that doesn't require you to read the rest of the series to enjoy it. I would say that any books that are the first in a series would have to end on a non-cliffhanger to be enjoyable, and any books in the middle of the series would have to be something that doesn't play heavily off of the continuity of the past books.

Also, if we were to use some method where each person picks one book, a series like Lord of the Rings would really be picking three books, which wouldn't be quite fair.

[RD!]

Most of the books in the Ender series stand well enough on their own. http://zimed.net/forums/html/emoticons/sorcerer.gif

[Sailor Chibi Otaku]

I forgot to mention: I stay away from books that are written in first person unless the subject really interests me or I love the author or if it's someone I've never heard of before, I'll give them a chance.

I WANT the novelization of "Splinter Cell" but I read a bit of the first chapter and it's in first person.

[Shnay]

The only true obstacle I see in the success of this endeavour would be a lack of dedication among readers.As long as there are even a few dedicated people, I think it can work. Even if there are only five people or so that stick with it after the first couple of months, that's still enough to get some good discussion going. The more the better, but small books clubs can definitely work (I've been in at least one that did).

To move forward with this, we need ideas/feedback on the best way to pick the books we read. Once we decide that we can work out the other details. So if you're interested and you haven't given your opinion on how you think we should pick the books, please speak up.

[SSJPabs]

I don't think we should have everyone get their option. We need to campaign for a book or we'll be stuck reading a lot of books that only a few people like. I understand you sometimes need to read books that you wouldn't normally pick up, but I'm not sure if this is exactly the place for it.

I think we should devote a seperate thread/section to arguing for and against books. This should be constantly ongoing and at certain times (maybe once every few months or so) we vote on several of the books for a set periiod of time. All book club members can vote, and the top 3 or something get added to the reading the list. The others either stay on the "arguing" list or have to be re-submitted. Maybe you should get a person or two to skim over submissions to make sure they're appropriate for the Toonzone demographic (since I assume we'll be talking about books here at TZ).

My only stipulation is no Ayn Rand :p

Also, how about a book written in the SECOND person? Not something you see everyday is it?

[RD!]

Also, how about a book written in the SECOND person? Not something you see everyday is it?Try Palahniuk's Diary and see why.

[Sailor Chibi Otaku]

Also, how about a book written in the SECOND person? Not something you see everyday is it?
I've read some. My mind went kinda crazy: IT'S NOT ME!!

[SSJPabs]

Try Palahniuk's Diary and see why.Well there goes my suggestion even though what I was going to suggest was the short (164 pages) and wickedly funny "Underminer."

[sKorpia]

(Just to get this said in the open) We're not going to try to accommodate everyone's particular literary needs, right? I mean, if a horror novel is chosen for a month, then I just won't be participating in that month's discussion. I'm not going to suggest that no one can recommend a horror novel for the book club to read.

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I'm not so sure I see much of a point in debating about a book's inclusion/exclusion onto a list. One person will suggest it, another will shoot it down because he/she doesn't read that genre or like that author or enjoy that style, and then when does a consensus get made? Everybody would need to know at least a few particulars about the book, like the synopsis, and we'd be arguing based either on middling facts (length, genre) or on preconceived notions of a text we've probably never read before.

I personally think the first step should be to have interested members draw up a list of the books they would want to read, probably in a separate thread. Once we have a pool of books to choose from, then we can get to the actual business of how to choose which ones after taking out repeated suggested titles. Can't make something out of nothing.

[SSJPabs]

(Just to get this said in the open) We're not going to try to accommodate everyone's particular literary needs, right? I mean, if a horror novel is chosen for a month, then I just won't be participating in that month's discussion. I'm not going to suggest that no one can recommend a horror novel for the book club to read.

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I'm not so sure I see much of a point in debating about a book's inclusion/exclusion onto a list. One person will suggest it, another will shoot it down because he/she doesn't read that genre or like that author or enjoy that style, and then when does a consensus get made? Everybody would need to know at least a few particulars about the book, like the synopsis, and we'd be arguing based either on middling facts (length, genre) or on preconceived notions of a text we've probably never read before.I don't know, it seems that is what Shnay was leaning towards at the top of this page. I think that's a recipe for lower participation myself. The consesus gets made via vote. If you don't like it, then skip the month. Someone at some point has to make a choice.

[Shnay]

We're not going to try to accommodate everyone's particular literary needs, right? I mean, if a horror novel is chosen for a month, then I just won't be participating in that month's discussion. I'm not going to suggest that no one can recommend a horror novel for the book club to read.If we attempted to please absolutely everybody, I don't think we could ever get anything done. There are certain types of books I don't like as well, but if everyone else is up for a book of that type then I can decide to either give it a shot or sit that month out.

The problem I see with the full-on campaiging idea is that would lead to the best argumentative writers almost always getting their way. Those who are passionate about a book but have a hard time defending their choice against others would likely get pushed aside.

Here's a revised version of my earlier idea:

Anyone who thinks they would seriously participate in the group gives their name. These would hopefully be people who would participate in a number of discussions and not just their own personal choice. We organize those names into an alphabetical list. From there, a thread like "Toon Zone Book Club selection - August" is started. In that thread, the first person on the list makes a list of a few different types of books that they think would make good discussion material. They would also give links to desciptions of the books, possibly link to some good reviews, and include anything they've heard about them. From there, everyone else discusses what they like from the list and what they're not as interested in. This, of course, would have to be done in a civil and constructive manner. After the discussion goes on for a little while and everyone gets their say, the first person on the list makes a decision based on the feedback he or she receives. Then for the next month, the next name on the list suggests a few books and people discuss those choices.

We could do a poll to select the book out of someone's choices, instead of leaving it up to them, but I'm not sure if that would be best. A scenario might occur where Book A get five votes and Book B gets three votes, but those who voted for Book A aren't terribly passionate about the choice whereas the people who voted for Book B are. With a non-number based system of member feedback, the decision could take a lot of different reactions into account. As long as we don't get anyone who says "Well, nobody was into this book, but we're doing it anyway because I said so," I think we'll be okay.

So the basic ideas at this point are:

-A list of members who take turns proposing a few different books and deciding on one after hearing what people think.
-A list of books compiled by different users, sorted by genre, that we rotate through each month.
-A thread where everyone makes a case for a book and the winner is decided by a poll


Any feedback on these or new ideas would be greatly appreciated.

[SSJPabs]

So the basic ideas at this point are:

-A list of members who take turns proposing a few different books and deciding on one after hearing what people think.
-A list of books compiled by different users, sorted by genre, that we rotate through each month.
-A thread where everyone makes a case for a book and the winner is decided by a poll

Any feedback on these or new ideas would be greatly appreciated.I think allowing the person who proposed the book in the first place to make a decision on the book is a mistake but otherwise I could get behind the poll idea 100%. In the example you bring up about a lukewarm book being picked as opposed to one with passionate advocates I think that is something we would have to consign ourselves to. The first time it happened I would hope it would make everyone think hard about their votes in the future.

Besides, nothing is stopping you from reading Book B instead of Book A and discussing it among yourselves, or from trying two months in a row to push Book B. Perhaps if everyone thought Book A was only lukewarm, next time they would be willing to give Book B a try. Heck you could even read Book A AND Book B if you are a fast reader and thus another Book B zealot would be added to the ranks.

Overall I think it's not a bad system, although as one of the fiercer arguers I would prefer to bludgeon people into submission :evil:

[chesterfield]

I like this book club idea. The suggestions for ways to set it up all have merits, but I think I like the poll idea best. I say let's get the ball rolling and start coming up with titles!

[Sailor Chibi Otaku]

I should have said this with my first post in this thread: what a novel idea.

What..? >_> <_<

[sKorpia]

So the basic ideas at this point are:

-A list of members who take turns proposing a few different books and deciding on one after hearing what people think.The pros of this is that we start off with a small selection of books to choose from for each month. (We would be limiting the number of proposals to, say, 5 titles, right?) Despite Shnay's misgivings, using a poll format here might not be so bad overall. But again, I'm not convinced of the merit of debating books before they've been read. Can someone lay out an argument for me, please? What does this additional step provide for the book club?


-A list of books compiled by different users, sorted by genre, that we rotate through each month.I still think this one is the most fair option (and probably the most efficient). But I get the sense that people are chaffing against it due to a lack of "input" that's inherent w/the option. Though, the input is given at the very beginning and more books will always be able to be added to the list.

With this or with option 1, however, at least there's the security in knowing that a book that you do want to read will eventually come up. It's a security that's lacking in the next option.


-A thread where everyone makes a case for a book and the winner is decided by a pollI still really don't like this one. Remember what happened with the JD Sketch polls? Good characters with a small fanbase consistently failed to get chosen for sketches. It takes on the flavor of a popularity contest more than anything and leaves a bad taste in my mouth. And I really don't like voting in polls where I don't really know anything about what's being decided upon. Polls tend to depend on people having prior knowledge which, with a book club, cannot always be the case. What's the point of constantly re-reading what you have already read and already adore?

[Ben]

-A list of members who take turns proposing a few different books and deciding on one after hearing what people think.
-A list of books compiled by different users, sorted by genre, that we rotate through each month.
-A thread where everyone makes a case for a book and the winner is decided by a poll


Any feedback on these or new ideas would be greatly appreciated.

The crippling problem with polls (and you can see this on the Anime Forum Anime of the Month thing) is that people LOVE voting in polls, but a lot of them don't love going out and reading (or watching) and participating in the discussion. Which means the people who actually want to participate get screwed.

Plus, as I said, polls are always, always popularity contests, and I don't want to read popular books.

The first option makes the most sense. That way everyone stays involved, and if we must have a poll, then there could be a poll between four or five books chosen by one member for that month.

[sKorpia]

Question on timing. Let's say we begin in August. The month of August is dedicated to picking which book to read. We have a discussion thread on the 5 or so books suggested by the designated person for the month of September. We finally settle on a book. Then the month of September is devoted to reading the chosen book. At the same time, we have to choose a book to read for October, to be discussed in November. So, in the month of October then, we're simultaneously discussing the book we read in September, reading October's book, researching other books for the discussion thread to pick a November book, and going on with the rest of life. Correct?

Of course, we could always break it down so that first 2 weeks are devoted to picking the book and the rest of the month is devoted to reading the book chosen.

We should definitely have a time limit on the book choosing thread, if we go with that option. Perhaps a week. The choosing should not be dragged on for too long.

[Shnay]

The pros of this is that we start off with a small selection of books to choose from for each month. (We would be limiting the number of proposals to, say, 5 titles, right?) Despite Shnay's misgivings, using a poll format here might not be so bad overall. Five was the number I was thinking of, so yeah, that sounds good. Also, I'm not strongly against a poll option. I can definitely see the advantages to it.


But again, I'm not convinced of the merit of debating books before they've been read. Can someone lay out an argument for me, please? What does this additional step provide for the book club?I don't think it would be about debating the merits of a book so much as it would be a discussion about what would work best for everybody. I like stream of consciousness writing, but some people find it a chore to work through. If I suggested a stream of consciousness book that some people wanted to read but a number of people didn't, I might decide on one that more people could agree on (this would be if we didn't use the polling model, obviously). Similarly, if I suggested a "classic" that a few people had already read and didn't really want to read again, I might go with another selection. The discussion/debate period would allow for the person making the final decision to take in different kinds of feedback and make what they feel is the best decision.


I still think this one is the most fair option (and probably the most efficient). But I get the sense that people are chaffing against it due to a lack of "input" that's inherent w/the option. Though, the input is given at the very beginning and more books will always be able to be added to the list.Would this list be compiled by having each person suggest one book, or could someone suggest a few books as long as they don't go overboard? Either way, I do think it's a good idea. I still think I favor some form of the first idea, but this one (depending on how the list is compiled) is probably the most efficient. And there's a whole lot to be said for efficiency.


I still really don't like this one. Remember what happened with the JD Sketch polls? Good characters with a small fanbase consistently failed to get chosen for sketches. It takes on the flavor of a popularity contest more than anything and leaves a bad taste in my mouth. And I really don't like voting in polls where I don't really know anything about what's being decided upon. Polls tend to depend on people having prior knowledge which, with a book club, cannot always be the case. What's the point of constantly re-reading what you have already read and already adore?This brings up some very good points. I don't know about anyone else, but I would like this book club to encourage me to read things I might not read otherwise. There are a few types of books I'm convinced I hate, but this is a good chance to see if one can surprise me and open new possibilities. If a book that came out of a literary movement I don't care for got chosen, I would likely still read it and see what I think. If four books like that get chosen in a row and I don't like any of them, then I probably wouldn't read the fifth, but I certainly wouldn't reject the first few.

I think you could make an "educated" vote on a poll by reading reviews and plot synopses. That would be enough to decide that you would probably like Book A over Book B, but again, that shouldn't mean that you refuse to read Book B should it get selected.


The crippling problem with polls (and you can see this on the Anime Forum Anime of the Month thing) is that people LOVE voting in polls, but a lot of them don't love going out and reading (or watching) and participating in the discussion. Which means the people who actually want to participate get screwed.One way to attempt to fix this problem would be to make it a public poll, and if we notice a few people voting every month but not participating in the discussions, then we could ask if they would please not contribute a vote.


Question on timing. Let's say we begin in August. The month of August is dedicated to picking which book to read. We have a discussion thread on the 5 or so books suggested by the designated person for the month of September. We finally settle on a book. Then the month of September is devoted to reading the chosen book. At the same time, we have to choose a book to read for October, to be discussed in November. So, in the month of October then, we're simultaneously discussing the book we read in September, reading October's book, researching other books for the discussion thread to pick a November book, and going on with the rest of life. Correct?I recently realized the timing issue as well. I'm really not sure what the best timeline would look like. In a regular book club, if you read a book for the month of August, you can meet for one day at the end of the month and have the discussion then go on your way and start on the next book. Because of the nature of message boards, the discussion could carry on for quite awhile, which makes a regular schedule harder to design.

Maybe we should ditch the monthly plan and do it on a book by book basis? So if we decide on a short book we could agree on "meeting" in two weeks, and then wait until the discussion goes as far as it's going to go before selecting a new book. This would mean that we wouldn't have to cram anything into a tight schedule, but keeping track of what's going on when would be a whole lot harder.

If we weren't going to do a book-by-book plan, maybe the first week of each month could be dedicated to simultaneous discussion and new book selection, while the other three weeks would be reading the new book (which I think is what Skorpia is describing). It's not ideal, but I'm stumped for a better schedule.

So, now we have a few ideas on book selection pretty well described. At this point, I think they look like this:

-A list of club members, sorted alphabetically, who take turns suggesting roughly five books. During the week, everyone else discusses what they might like or dislike about the different selections based on reading reviews or a plot synopsis. At the end of the week, the member whose turn it is to suggest books decides on one based on the feedback he or she received from the other people.

-A list of club members, sorted alphabetically, who take turns suggesting roughly five books. During the week, everyone interested in participating in discussion votes on one of the books. At the end of the week, the book with the highest number of votes is chosen.

-A list of books, sorted by genre, is compiled by the members. The genres would rotate each month, and eventually each suggested book would be read. The list can be modified to accomadate new suggestions and new members.

-Each month a thread is started where everyone can suggest a book (or a few books) and make a case for why they think it would be good for discussion. Later, a poll could be taken (either from the most popular choices or a huge poll of every book suggested) to decide the winner.

So far, there have been a limited number of people offering their thoughts on these suggested ideas (which may not bode well for the book club). To actually get this going, perhaps we should have a poll on these four ideas? I realize having a poll to select how we're going to select books is a tad ridiculous, but it may be the quickest and most fair way to make a descision at this point.

What do you think? Should their be a "select how we select books" poll? Should those offering ideas attempt to reach a consensus? If there was a poll on these selection methods, do you agree with the way they're worded? Would you add anything else?

Again, if you're interested in the book club and haven't shared your ideas on the matter please speak up! The more input we have the better we can make the club. For this to turn out well, it depends on the efforts of its participants.

[Winry Rockbell]

First of all, I love the idea of a book club, I enjoy to read just about anything.

I like the idea of choosing a genre and then naming several (maybe 5) books and we pick from there. That way, all the books chosen could be grouped and we have a basis to compare them. Five really varied books in five different genres may have people not sure what to pick.

One thing to keep in mind (as I think someone mentioned) whatever book is chosen, people should have access to it in a library/ bookstore (although, I'd rather borrow a book than buy one I'm not sure I'll like.)

[purplehairedwonder]

I like the idea of choosing a genre and then naming several (maybe 5) books and we pick from there. That way, all the books chosen could be grouped and we have a basis to compare them. Five really varied books in five different genres may have people not sure what to pick.I agree that this gives a good basis for comparing the titles. The only problem I forsee is the classification of the genres themselves. Someone may consider Book A to be fantasy while others would call it a children's book, or something like that. But otherwise, I like this idea as well.

[SSJPabs]

I agree that this gives a good basis for comparing the titles. The only problem I forsee is the classification of the genres themselves. Someone may consider Book A to be fantasy while others would call it a children's book, or something like that. But otherwise, I like this idea as well.As for classification of genre just use the publisher's classification. It might not make everyone happy, but it's a non-subjective (from OUR end) decision that everybody should be able to live with. And if they disagree then that can be a point of discussion after we've read it.

So are we going to do this or just talk about it? August is a-comin' round the corner. And will we do it all here, or can we start up a yahoo group to keep some of the deliberations about books (which books to choose, not the discussions themselves) from cluttering up the forums?

[Shnay]

So are we going to do this or just talk about it?The sooner we start the better. I don't like writing big posts about methods for selecting books anymore than people like reading them. I was trying to get a feel for what the group thought would be the best way to go about this, but unfortunately only a few people gave their opinions (their contributions are greatly appreciated).

I think we're losing the crowd fast by talking about the best method to do this. This is the boring part, this is the hard part. I'm hoping that once we're past this, those that expressed interest in the club will join back in the discussion. So, at this point, I think it may be best to just pick a book and run with it. Once we establish who is interested in participating, we can work out a better way to pick books.

I'm going to PM some of the people that offered the most feedback in this thread and get their opinions on some of these things. It's not the way I wanted to do this in the beginning, but if having a small number of people making the decisions is the only way to save this thing from dying before it even begins, then so be it.

[chesterfield]

Maybe we could start out by suggesting some authors and then go from there. If we could agree on an author then the book ideas might come more easily. I'm not sure how much this suggestion is worth but I thought I should give it a shot.