The DS and the PSP- They've been out for a while...

[Chad Bonin]

This is a thought that's been kicking around in my head for a while, but an article brings it to the forefront.

The PSP and the DS have been out for some time now. The DS has a Christmas under it's belt and $100 less, and now has a pack-in full game instead of a demo, along with an extra color choice. The PSP has lost it's Spidey UMD in that same time.

If I remember correctly, EGM graded the PSP's performance at E3 a B+, while the PSP got a B (GBA did worse, I believe).

http://www.planetgamecube.com/news.cfm?action=item&id=6375

This article comes along and states that while the PSP is being talked about more, it's more negative. It also states the DS sells over 2-to-1 to the PSP.

From Toon Zone, I'm seeing more discussion regarding the DS, especially upcoming games. From elsewhere, I'm seeing more discussion with regards to the PSP, given how it's the more-easily-homebrewed system.

Personally, I own both systems, but am looking forward to more DS games at the moment. The PSP has Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories and Street Fighter Alpha, but I might even hold off on GTA as, while I'm sure it'll required a firmware upgrade, I would prefer to wait for the upgrade to be, well, defeated. SFA is a great fighter, but I have it already... but I'd buy it again. One of the few games I have multiple copies of, like Super Mario World.

So, in this war... who do you think is "winning"?

[Zach]

The DS is winning. The PSP isn't selling near as well as everyone thought. Besides, you can't compete with Nintendo's upcoming first party lineup.

[Juu-kuchi]

Hard to really say since there does not seem to be much killer apps for both systems. But eventually I think the DS will top it. I mean it will have stuff like Nintendogs and their promised online titles of Mario Kart and Animal Crossing.

But then again the PSP may just edge it because of a GTA game being on it, and everybody loooooves GTA.

[Noukon]

The DS is winning. The PSP isn't selling near as well as everyone thought. Besides, you can't compete with Nintendo's upcoming first party lineup.
I work at Best Buy, and I see infinitely more PSPs sold than DSes. The same is not true in all markets, though; the DS is outselling the PSP in Japan, thanks mostly to Nintendogs. GTA will probably end up selling a lot of PSPs, given that it's supposed to be on par with GTA3.

Neither system is failing, though. They're really going after different market segments, and the overlap isn't very high.

[mookie75]

They're really going after different market segments, and the overlap isn't very high.
Yup, but you can be sure that won't keep fanboys from debating which is the greatest of all time for years to come. :shrug:

[Havok]

Possibly the DS. It has had a lead since it's headstart. Along with price factor and library, it's not all that surprising really.

[Artimus Gigan]

Yup, but you can be sure that won't keep fanboys from debating which is the greatest of all time for years to come. :shrug:It'll stop once when the GBA2 comes out and everyone abandons the DS after getting it reduced to a Palm Pilot...

Then it will be GBA2 vs PSP


Possibly the DS. It has had a lead since it's headstart. Along with price factor and library, it's not all that surprising really.PSP Library is bigger than DS

Also it's not made up majorly of Ports...

[mookie75]

It'll stop once when the GBA2 comes out and everyone abandons the DS after getting it reduced to a Palm Pilot...

Then it will be GBA2 vs PSP

PSP Library is bigger than DS

Also it's not made up majorly of Ports...
You're still bitter because you loved the DS once and it broke your heart aren't you......... :anime:

(By the way, a bigger library doesn't always mean a better library. For example, I'd take the Game Cube's smaller library over the PS2's anyday! And for me it really comes down to only a handful of games on either side of the fence.)

[Artimus Gigan]

You're still bitter because you loved the DS once and it broke your heart aren't you......... :anime:

(By the way, a bigger library doesn't always mean a better library. For example, I'd take the Game Cube's smaller library over the PS2's anyday! And for me it really comes down to only a handful of games on either side of the fence.)He noted the library as a strength

DS's library is smaller and is made up of mostly ports

PSP's library is larger and is made up of pretty much new games(or movies if you count all the UMD discs)

If you want to go by sheer number of games that got high reviews, PSP has more. It's the same with the PS2 as well, yeah there are alot of bad games for the PS2 but the number of good ones is more than on any other system.

Also owning Ping Pals is now considered a sin....it apparently bumped of Sloth as one of the seven deadly sins, the only good that comes out of it now is that Se7en will now get a sequel.

[Charlie]

I have both, and I enjoy the PSP alot more. Theres just alot more I can do with my PSP. In fact a good chunk of my PSPs life has been that of watching episodes of Wonder Show Zen, Greg the Bunny, and Venture Bros. instead of playing games. Something I thought I'd never do. Where as with my new-new DS its been wasted mostly with Kirby and Metoes, both of which seem to have lost their luster with me. The only games I'm looking forward to is Sonic and Mario & Luigi 2, but it just dosen't seem like it was good enough to warrent my hard-earned birthday money. I'm actually thinking of trading it back.

I'm sure Nintendo will "win the war" (which should have died out back in the N64/PS1 days in my eyes), but Sony will do fine.

[MattThomasM2B]

As long as the PSP remains a competitor and doesn't turn into the next Game Gear, it's all fine by me. After playing Ridge Racer and Spider-man on PSP, I will not be able to bare having to downgrade from N64-PS2 to PS1-N64.

[Noukon]

He noted the library as a strength

DS's library is smaller and is made up of mostly ports

PSP's library is larger and is made up of pretty much new games(or movies if you count all the UMD discs)
Point number one: Library sizes...

The PSP currently has 29 games out. The DS currently has 25. A four game difference isn't all that relevant. Both libraries have their duds, of course, but which games are duds is entirely subjective. I'll come back to this later.

Point number two: Port ratios...

A good part of the PSP's library is made up of ports, as well. Since I'm not entirely familiar with each game in its library, it's hard for me to quote a percentage. I can, however, look over the DS' library and give some figures.

Of the 25 DS games currently out, at least twelve are entirely original titles; as in, they were developed directly for the DS from the ground up, and have no direct counterparts on any other system. Examples include Kirby Canvas Curse, Meteos, Yoshi's Touch & Go, and WarioWare Touched.

Another six or seven games do have counterparts on other systems, but the DS versions are independently developed, and therefore do not qualify as ports. Examples include Goldeneye: Rogue Agent, Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory, and Spider-Man 2. So, that's at least eighteen games that are not ports, which, in fact, is a substantial majority of the library.

The remaining games in the library tie in to other games to varying degrees. Some are not counted at all simply because I have no familiarity with them.

I believe the only titles that are made mostly out of assets from already published games (ergo, are ports) are Rayman DS, Ridge Racer, Star Wars: Episode III, and Super Mario 64 DS. At least two of these games, however, have substantial additions that are exclusive to the DS versions.

Point number three: UMD movies...

These could be considered an asset to an argument in favor of the PSP, however, since even this is arguable, they can't really count as part of its "library size." The things are not a good value. In general, a PSP UMD movie costs significantly more than its DVD counterpart, and the DVD version has a lot more versatility (it can be played in a lot more devices than that UMD). The savvy user will buy a DVD, rip it, and put it on a media stick. The unsavvy user will spend a lot of money on those UMDs.

Plus, looking at the selection of UMD movies on its own, it's rather pathetic. There are a few good titles, a few mediocre new releases, and a handful of random obscurities. It's a novelty, and nothing more. (They don't sell very well, either, I imagine because of the price.)

Moving past this criticism, a movie is a very, very different media product than a game.

Point number four: Diversity...

This comes down to what I said earlier. The two systems are going after two completely separate market segments. This is like looking at the PS2 versus the GameCube; the things have entirely different versatilities, and a lot of weird differences in their libraries. As such, a lot of people look at the GameCube as a failure, when, in fact, it has been more profitable for Nintendo than the PS2 has been for Sony.

To illustrate this point, here is a list of franchises that have an entry in both the DS and PSP libraries:


Need For Speed
Ridge Racer
Spider-Man 2
Tiger Woods PGA Tour
25 games on the DS, 29 on the PSP, and an overlap of only four. Think about how many games get released on multiple home consoles when you look at that number. That alone should demonstrate how different the two things are.

The entire point: Just because a game library does not appeal to you does not mean it's a bad library, it just doesn't work with your own personal taste. Look at Japan: The DS is whooping the PSP in sales over a single game, Nintendogs. Here, the PSP may whoop the DS in sales just over GTA.

In the end, those sales don't even matter much beyond being a silly scorecard for fanboys.

[Tapout]

Point number three: UMD movies...

These could be considered an asset to an argument in favor of the PSP, however, since even this is arguable, they can't really count as part of its "library size." The things are not a good value. In general, a PSP UMD movie costs significantly more than its DVD counterpart, and the DVD version has a lot more versatility (it can be played in a lot more devices than that UMD). The savvy user will buy a DVD, rip it, and put it on a media stick. The unsavvy user will spend a lot of money on those UMDs.

Plus, looking at the selection of UMD movies on its own, it's rather pathetic. There are a few good titles, a few mediocre new releases, and a handful of random obscurities. It's a novelty, and nothing more. (They don't sell very well, either, I imagine because of the price.)

Moving past this criticism, a movie is a very, very different media product than a game.
I gotta disagree with most of that. Yeah, the prices of many of them do stink out loud. $25 for some of them when I can buy the DVD for $13 is just stupid. However, some of us don't have the option of ripping DVDs and putting them on memory sticks. First off, we don't all have DVD drives on our PCs. Second, 1 GB memory sticks are frickin' expensive. And maybe it's just because I don't have USB 2.0 yet, but putting files on my MS takes FOREVER. And that's just piddly little 30-40 MB video files. Moving a huge, high-quality feature film would probably take about an hour on my PC. I'd honestly rather shell out $20 for a UMD than deal with that every time I wanted to watch a movie on my PSP.

Your assment of the UMD titles is also very subjective and inaccurate, IMO. It absolutely destroys the lineup of GBA videos (not that they're selling the GBA based on those, nor is the PSP really competing with the GBA) and there are some great movies currently available, with more on the way.

[mookie75]

He noted the library as a strength

DS's library is smaller and is made up of mostly ports

PSP's library is larger and is made up of pretty much new games(or movies if you count all the UMD discs)

If you want to go by sheer number of games that got high reviews, PSP has more. It's the same with the PS2 as well, yeah there are alot of bad games for the PS2 but the number of good ones is more than on any other system.

Also owning Ping Pals is now considered a sin....it apparently bumped of Sloth as one of the seven deadly sins, the only good that comes out of it now is that Se7en will now get a sequel.
You really completely missed my point didn't you...

Oh well, I'll let you get back to your PSP. I don't own either, so I guess I'm not that qualified to talk about it anyway. I just enjoy some twisted desire to clarify misunderstandings between others. :p

[mookie75]

Look at Japan: The DS is whooping the PSP in sales over a single game, Nintendogs. Here, the PSP may whoop the DS in sales just over GTA.Wow, and just think about what kind of commentary that is for the differences between our two countries. :shrug:

[Noukon]

I gotta disagree with most of that. Yeah, the prices of many of them do stink out loud. $25 for some of them when I can buy the DVD for $13 is just stupid. However, some of us don't have the option of ripping DVDs and putting them on memory sticks. First off, we don't all have DVD drives on our PCs. Second, 1 GB memory sticks are frickin' expensive. And maybe it's just because I don't have USB 2.0 yet, but putting files on my MS takes FOREVER. And that's just piddly little 30-40 MB video files. Moving a huge, high-quality feature film would probably take about an hour on my PC. I'd honestly rather shell out $20 for a UMD than deal with that every time I wanted to watch a movie on my PSP.
I wouldn't do it if I had a PSP, either, I'm just saying that there are other options out there.


Your assment of the UMD titles is also very subjective and inaccurate, IMO. It absolutely destroys the lineup of GBA videos (not that they're selling the GBA based on those, nor is the PSP really competing with the GBA) and there are some great movies currently available, with more on the way.
Yes, some of it is subjective (especially the above). My main points, however, are not. UMD movies are not a good value; many go for $30, even at retail outlets that tend to slash prices almost to cost. I agree that there are a few good movies available, but there are only a handful of movies available in general. I mean, there are tens of thousands of movies available on DVD, and only a couple of dozen on UMD; that relegates it to a novelty extra feature. Realistically, how many UMD movies are you going to buy for your PSP, knowing you can get them cheaper on DVD and that you'll only ever play them on the one piece of hardware?

I'm sure most PSP owners will get some kind of use out of the fact that there are UMD movies to buy. However, as a "selling point" for the PSP, it is entirely subjective. The point is really that the UMD movies that are released are an entirely different media from the games that are released, and counting them as part of its game library is ridiculous.

[Noukon]

Wow, and just thing about what kind of commentary that is for the differences between our two countries. :shrug:
Yeah, it's pretty sad. Nintendogs could do really well over here, though. Much of its success has been in drawing people who don't normally play video games.

[PaQ]

I think the PSP has the better outlook, they're hanging tough and that's with a higher price tag, a soft launch and they haven't even brought out the big guns like GTA yet.

[the Amanda]

I'm no good at judging this sort of thing. However, I love my DS to pieces. It is cute, it has two screens and the touchscreen play is very fun. I love games where you draw things and stuff like that. I've been playing lots of Wario Ware and enjoying Super Mario 64 for the first time, and would like to get Kirby Canvas Curse. If I didn't own a DS already, I'd need one for Mario & Luigi 2, because the original is a fantastic game. There's not a single game on the PSP which interests me, except perhaps Lumines. It's no contest for me.

[Artimus Gigan]

Point number one: Library sizes...

The PSP currently has 29 games out. The DS currently has 25. A four game difference isn't all that relevant. Both libraries have their duds, of course, but which games are duds is entirely subjective. I'll come back to this later.

Point number two: Port ratios...

A good part of the PSP's library is made up of ports, as well. Since I'm not entirely familiar with each game in its library, it's hard for me to quote a percentage. I can, however, look over the DS' library and give some figures.

Of the 25 DS games currently out, at least twelve are entirely original titles; as in, they were developed directly for the DS from the ground up, and have no direct counterparts on any other system. Examples include Kirby Canvas Curse, Meteos, Yoshi's Touch & Go, and WarioWare Touched.

Another six or seven games do have counterparts on other systems, but the DS versions are independently developed, and therefore do not qualify as ports. Examples include Goldeneye: Rogue Agent, Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory, and Spider-Man 2. So, that's at least eighteen games that are not ports, which, in fact, is a substantial majority of the library.

The remaining games in the library tie in to other games to varying degrees. Some are not counted at all simply because I have no familiarity with them.

I believe the only titles that are made mostly out of assets from already published games (ergo, are ports) are Rayman DS, Ridge Racer, Star Wars: Episode III, and Super Mario 64 DS. At least two of these games, however, have substantial additions that are exclusive to the DS versions.

Point number three: UMD movies...

These could be considered an asset to an argument in favor of the PSP, however, since even this is arguable, they can't really count as part of its "library size." The things are not a good value. In general, a PSP UMD movie costs significantly more than its DVD counterpart, and the DVD version has a lot more versatility (it can be played in a lot more devices than that UMD). The savvy user will buy a DVD, rip it, and put it on a media stick. The unsavvy user will spend a lot of money on those UMDs.

Plus, looking at the selection of UMD movies on its own, it's rather pathetic. There are a few good titles, a few mediocre new releases, and a handful of random obscurities. It's a novelty, and nothing more. (They don't sell very well, either, I imagine because of the price.)

Moving past this criticism, a movie is a very, very different media product than a game.

Point number four: Diversity...

This comes down to what I said earlier. The two systems are going after two completely separate market segments. This is like looking at the PS2 versus the GameCube; the things have entirely different versatilities, and a lot of weird differences in their libraries. As such, a lot of people look at the GameCube as a failure, when, in fact, it has been more profitable for Nintendo than the PS2 has been for Sony.

To illustrate this point, here is a list of franchises that have an entry in both the DS and PSP libraries:

Need For Speed
Ridge Racer
Spider-Man 2
Tiger Woods PGA Tour
25 games on the DS, 29 on the PSP, and an overlap of only four. Think about how many games get released on multiple home consoles when you look at that number. That alone should demonstrate how different the two things are.

The entire point: Just because a game library does not appeal to you does not mean it's a bad library, it just doesn't work with your own personal taste. Look at Japan: The DS is whooping the PSP in sales over a single game, Nintendogs. Here, the PSP may whoop the DS in sales just over GTA.

In the end, those sales don't even matter much beyond being a silly scorecard for fanboys.Ridge Racer DS is a port of the Original PSX Ridge Racer

Ridge Racer for PSP is an entirely new game

Also the PSP games are beginning to be lowered to the DS game price range which is 30 bucks. So just to use RR as a comparison the big name titles for the PSP are pretty much giving you a bit more bang for your buck. I mean 30 bucks for handheld games is a bit much considering that 30 bucks can also egt you a console game as well. Stuff like Warioware or Ping Pals where the game really isn't as deep as a platformer or an RPG should run relatively cheaper like maybe around 10-20. But pretty much all the DS games are aroun d 30.

[Sigma]

I currently see the DS as the overall market leader. It may not be as popular in the US as the PSP, but it's cheaper, has some truely great games now (Meteos and Kirby are both amazing games), and the future line up of games is much better than that of the PSP with games like Mario Kart, Castlevania, Nintendogs, and many others. The PSP has alot of cool features as far as homebrew goes, but Sony keeps fighting it with updates to the firmware. The PSP has had a dry spell of good games since the launch, IMO the only game worth buying since launch has been Hot Shots Golf. The PSP does have some great looking games on the horrizon (Death Jr., Medievil, GTA, etc.) , but the DS just has alot more games that I see myself buying and enjoying than the PSP.

[Artimus Gigan]

I currently see the DS as the overall market leader. It may not be as popular in the US as the PSP, but it's cheaper, has some truely great games now (Meteos and Kirby are both amazing games), and the future line up of games is much better than that of the PSP with games like Mario Kart, Castlevania, Nintendogs, and many others. The PSP has alot of cool features as far as homebrew goes, but Sony keeps fighting it with updates to the firmware. The PSP has had a dry spell of good games since the launch, IMO the only game worth buying since launch has been Hot Shots Golf. The PSP does have some great looking games on the horrizon (Death Jr., Medievil, GTA, etc.) , but the DS just has alot more games that I see myself buying and enjoying than the PSP.The medieval game is an updated port of the original with added levels and quests(similar to the RE GC releases)

Also mario Kart isn't getting released until much much later, I think nintendo really should waited to release the DS until it had a few substancial titles. Mario DS real;ly shoulda been a new game instead of a slightly modified port of the Original. I mean yes you do get to play as different characters and all, but it's the same old levels. If anything they should have redone those levels so they can atleast look better. I mean 3d games don't really seem to age all that well.

[Sigma]

The medieval game is an updated port of the original with added levels and quests(similar to the RE GC releases)

Also mario Kart isn't getting released until much much later, I think nintendo really should waited to release the DS until it had a few substancial titles. Mario DS real;ly shoulda been a new game instead of a slightly modified port of the Original. I mean yes you do get to play as different characters and all, but it's the same old levels. If anything they should have redone those levels so they can atleast look better. I mean 3d games don't really seem to age all that well. Medieval Resurection is a port (hence the name), but it's still a great classic game that I would enjoy playing on the PSP.

[Noukon]

Ridge Racer DS is a port of the Original PSX Ridge Racer
As I stated in my post.


Ridge Racer for PSP is an entirely new game
What point are you trying to illustrate with this, exactly? If you're trying to say the PSP is better because a single franchise is on both systems and only the PSP version is brand new, you're not using nearly a large enough sample. This statement also does not address any of the points I made, as far as I can tell. You're going to need to be clearer on exactly what your point is (I'll help out with this: My entire argument boils down to, "They are targeting different marketing segments, and are barely comparable as products." What about this are you disagreeing with?)


Also the PSP games are beginning to be lowered to the DS game price range which is 30 bucks.
I work at Best Buy, and look over the PSP games pretty much daily. I haven't seen any drop to $30. EBGames.com lists no available PSP game titles at that price.


So just to use RR as a comparison the big name titles for the PSP are pretty much giving you a bit more bang for your buck. I mean 30 bucks for handheld games is a bit much considering that 30 bucks can also egt you a console game as well.
Ridge Racer for PSP sells for $40. I bought RR for DS a few days ago at Circuit City for $10. That isn't a healthy comparison for a "more bang for your buck" argument. The PSP version may also be significantly better, but the hardware itself costs a full $100 more, and RR isn't exactly an A-list, killer-app title that's going to sell either system.

Additionally, at this point, we're comparing software, not hardware. I had never touched a Ridge Racer game before I bought the DS version. Therefore, the $10 DS title probably offered me a hell of a lot more "bang for my buck" than the $40 PSP one would have. The same might be true if I paid $20, or even $30, for it.

One developer's laziness does not quantify a criticism of the system they're being lazy with.


Stuff like Warioware or Ping Pals where the game really isn't as deep as a platformer or an RPG should run relatively cheaper like maybe around 10-20. But pretty much all the DS games are aroun d 30.
Ping Pals carries a $20 MSRP (and I've seen it for as little as $10). Zoo Keeper does, as well. I imagine other games will follow, especially around the same time PSP games do start dropping in price.

If you're going to cite facts to back up an argument (as unclear as your argument is beyond "the PSP is better so there"), you should really confirm them first. Nearly every figure, number, or even vague assertion you've cited has been incorrect.

[mookie75]

Yeah, it's pretty sad. Nintendogs could do really well over here, though. Much of its success has been in drawing people who don't normally play video games.
I still get Nintendo Power. I rarely read the magazine from cover to cover, but every so often I catch it when they talk about some game that is over in Japan and will "maybe someday" be released over here. Sadly, I often finish reading only to think, "I wish they would release that over here!" It seems a lot of the innovation doesn't make it across the Pacific. I can't think of any specific examples at the moment....perhaps I'll look through some mags and see if I can find something.

[Noukon]

I still get Nintendo Power. I rarely read the magazine from cover to cover, but every so often I catch it when they talk about some game that is over in Japan and will "maybe someday" be released over here. Sadly, I often finish reading only to think, "I wish they would release that over here!" It seems a lot of the innovation doesn't make it across the Pacific. I can't think of any specific examples at the moment....perhaps I'll look through some mags and see if I can find something.
One thing along that line that stands out in my mind is the 64DD... not necessarily for the hardware itself, but for the Mario Artist Studio and Doshin the Giant. I really hope some 64DD content makes it onto the Revolution download service.

It's still up in the air whether or not we'll get Jam With the Band and Electroplankton here, and I'm dying to play both of them (Electroplankton especially).

[the Amanda]

Our local EB Games is taking preorders for Nintendogs. Are you guys sure it isn't coming over here?

[Sigma]

One thing along that line that stands out in my mind is the 64DD... not necessarily for the hardware itself, but for the Mario Artist Studio and Doshin the Giant. I really hope some 64DD content makes it onto the Revolution download service.

It's still up in the air whether or not we'll get Jam With the Band and Electroplankton here, and I'm dying to play both of them (Electroplankton especially). I do believe Nintendo will bring Electroplankton to the states in November.

I work at Gamestop and we have it in our computer system for release on November 1st, but im sure that date will change.


Our local EB Games is taking preorders for Nintendogs. Are you guys sure it isn't coming over here? Nintendogs is comming out August 22nd.



I work at Best Buy, and look over the PSP games pretty much daily. I haven't seen any drop to $30. EBGames.com lists no available PSP game titles at that price. At Gamestop we have yet to have a PSP game drop in price and probably won't till around Christmas time.

[Artimus Gigan]

Ping Pals carries a $20 MSRP (and I've seen it for as little as $10). Zoo Keeper does, as well. I imagine other games will follow, especially around the same time PSP games do start dropping in price.

If you're going to cite facts to back up an argument (as unclear as your argument is beyond "the PSP is better so there"), you should really confirm them first. Nearly every figure, number, or even vague assertion you've cited has been incorrect.I was just at bestbuy on Saturday and they had Untold Legends for 30 bucks

and that 10 buck CC sale wasn't the regular MSRP...it's just a way to get rid of overstock

The PSP Ridge Racer costs 40
The DS Ridge Racer costs 30

The PSP ridge racer has way more cars,tracks, and features than the DS Ridge racer. So it's a big difference between the two.

Also you can get the original RR(which is what the DS version is a port of) for 99 cents at gamestop...or the N64 port for 2.99

I mean The DS should have more semi-console or full console quality games on it. I mean the DS lacks genres like Fighters. Granted the PSP currently only has Darkstalkers, but that's pretty much the Darkstalkers 10th anniversery edition, so it's not a quick beating game and is filled to the brim. I mean if anything the GBA's current releases outshine the DS, I mean There was Kingdom hearts, minish cap, and Fire Emblem. All of them if anything should have been garnered toward the DS. I mean these games are not quick beats like Wario Ware and the like, they're actualy worth the full 30 bucks. Pretty much the DS's only long lasting games were ports. Which is my main gripe with the system...and also the fact that they are dilluting the releases too much, I got the system initialy because they were going to probably release games that were once japan exclusive(like final fantasy 3 and the like) in the US. I mean japan already has a Xenosaga game and the like, though they canceled that for the US IIRC. It's pretty much what they did with the gamecube all over again.

The only gripe I have with the PSP is the expence of some of the games.

[MattThomasM2B]

Ridge Racer for DS is not a port of Ridge Racer for PSX. It is a port of Ridge Racer 64 for the Nintendo 64 which has many more tracks than the PSX original (Ridge Racer, Ridge Racer Revolution, The 64 exclusive Renegade tracks and the final stage).

Ridge Racer for PSP isn't as much of an original game as it is a compilation of tracks from other RR games. (Ridge, Revolution, Rave, Rage, and R4).

[Artimus Gigan]

Ridge Racer for DS is not a port of Ridge Racer for PSX. It is a port of Ridge Racer 64 for the Nintendo 64 which has many more tracks than the PSX original (Ridge Racer, Ridge Racer Revolution, The 64 exclusive Renegade tracks and the final stage).

Ridge Racer for PSP isn't as much of an original game as it is a compilation of tracks from other RR games. (Ridge, Revolution, Rave, Rage, and R4).
Bah it's just the 1.5 of the original RR...

Still even though the PSP is sorta a compilation it's the better of the two

[Noukon]

I was just at bestbuy on Saturday and they had Untold Legends for 30 bucks
Either you're remembering incorrectly, or it was falsely marked. BestBuy.com has it listed for $39.99. (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7008588&type=product&id=1099392890937) Best Buy's retail stores always carry product at or above the price listed on the website, the only exception being clearances (which would not affect any PSP games at this point). Also, I sorted the PSP area in my Best Buy on Saturday, and made new price signs for numerous games, including Untold Legends; not a one was under $39.99.


and that 10 buck CC sale wasn't the regular MSRP...it's just a way to get rid of overstock

The PSP Ridge Racer costs 40
The DS Ridge Racer costs 30
Fair enough. Even at full MSRP, the DS version is cheaper. Please re-read the point you are arguing with here, as I addressed the idea of the game costing up to $30.


The PSP ridge racer has way more cars,tracks, and features than the DS Ridge racer. So it's a big difference between the two.
That is irrelevant in this debate (if you can even call it that; I still have no idea what point you're trying to make beyond throwing around some childish fanboyism). The Ridge Racer games are b-list; very, very few people are going to buy a game system over them. I picked up the DS version on a whim, simply to add another game to my collection.

This afternoon, I spent a while playing Ridge Racer on my niece's PSP. The game, at its core, is the same. There is little improvement in gameplay, and, in fact, I find the controls on the DS version far more enjoyable. The PSP's advantage lies in the graphics department. Citing extra tracks and cars in the PSP version of one b-list game as a positive note for the system itself is ridiculous.


Also you can get the original RR(which is what the DS version is a port of) for 99 cents at gamestop...or the N64 port for 2.99
Can I carry the N64 version around in my pocket? That's the real selling point of a game for a portable system, isn't it?


I mean The DS should have more semi-console or full console quality games on it. I mean the DS lacks genres like Fighters.
I am tired of repeating myself: The two products are going after completely different market segments. The DS is for smaller, more easily accessible games, and is designed better for portability. The PSP is designed for a "fuller" experience (a subjective word, but it describes the idea well enough), at a higher price point and with some concessions (such as battery life and load times).

The PSP's library appeals to you. That's great. It doesn't appeal to me. Tastes differ from person to person, and it should be obvious to you by now that there are a lot of people out there who like the DS and what it has to offer (especially given its current sales lead overseas, where more of its game library is available).


I mean if anything the GBA's current releases outshine the DS
Combine the entire DS and PSP game libraries, and put them next to the GBA's. The GBA wins. In fact, the GBA hardware is still outselling both of the new portables.

It's worth noting, however, that the GBA library counts as a plus for the DS in the same way the UMD movie library counts as a plus for the PSP (perhaps moreso, since GBA games don't have to be re-purchased to be used on a DS).


Pretty much the DS's only long lasting games were ports.
Have you played all of them? Unless you have, you're not qualified to make that assertion.


I got the system initialy because they were going to probably release games that were once japan exclusive(like final fantasy 3 and the like) in the US. I mean japan already has a Xenosaga game and the like, though they canceled that for the US IIRC. It's pretty much what they did with the gamecube all over again.
Xenosaga's release status for the U.S. has not been announced; the same is true with a lot of games that are known to be in development (such as Katamari Damacy). People have an unfortunate way of assuming that "not announced" means "never coming." Look at Electroplankton; they still haven't announced a U.S. release, but they'll sure as hell release it here.

[Artimus Gigan]

Have you played all of them? Unless you have, you're not qualified to make that assertion.

I've read numerious reviews

If you want to playit like that, no one is then able to make any judgement on either system

[Chad Bonin]

Reviews don't count. People lambasted Sprung... because they didn't know how Dating Sims go.

I loved the hell out of it.

... not in that way.

[Artimus Gigan]

Reviews don't count. People lambasted Sprung... because they didn't know how Dating Sims go.

I loved the hell out of it.

... not in that way.Well iif you figure in games that can balance the Action/Dating aspect

Regular dating sims do seem a bit bland...I mean I think you could get Sakura Wars up and running on the DS


Also by reading reviews I don't mean 1 or 2

I usualy get 5-6 magazines a month and draw an average from that

I also take into account other variables

[Noukon]

If you want to playit like that, no one is then able to make any judgement on either system Which is fine by me. The entire point I've been trying to make is that everything is subjective, and I haven't been attacking the PSP.

[Artimus Gigan]

Which is fine by me. The entire point I've been trying to make is that everything is subjective, and I haven't been attacking the PSP.I never said you were attacking the PSP

I was putting together what the media has said into one argument

Which pretty much boils down to this:

DS is taking it's sweet time with releasing big name games which could cost it in the end like Gamecube

PSP is pretty much following it's sony predecessors which could make it the new king of Handhelds

But considering it's summer, everything is pretty much at a standstill...

[peacebyanymeans]

DS is taking it's sweet time with releasing big name games which could cost it in the end like Gamecube

PSP is pretty much following it's sony predecessors which could make it the new king of Handhelds So that's why DS is beating the PSP in sales by almost twice as much worldwide... huh

EDIT: By "cost it in the end like Gamecube" do you mean making the most profit? Because Nintendo has made more of a profit on the GCN than Sony did on the PS2.

Also, Next year, Nintendo expects to pull in another 75 billion yen in net profit, while Sony as an entire company expects to bring in 80 billion yen. And Nintendo only makes video games.

Source: http://nintendoinsider.com/site/EEEZuAypVuTuOJPzyb.php

[Artimus Gigan]

So that's why DS is beating the PSP in sales by almost twice as much worldwide... huhDS has had a head start, the PSP has only been out since the end of March, and coming up on half a year it's been a substancial presence. Where as systems like the N-Gage, Game.com, Atari Lynx, and such dwindled

also I said "cost it in the end" as in, not directly failing rightaway just down the road


Remember the PSX and Saturn were tied and the N64 was ahead until Final Fantasy 7....and then look what happened

GTA PSP could be the game that causes the same effect

[peacebyanymeans]

DS has had a head start, the PSP has only been out since March

also I said "cost it in the end" as in, not directly failing rightaway just down the road


Remember the PSX and Saturn were tied and the N64 was ahead until Final Fantasy 7....and then look what happened

GTA PSP could be the game that causes the same effect
I just edited my post above with more info, so look at that will you, and I said WORLDWIDE, and Nintendo first launched Nov 21 in US, and PSP Dec 5 in Japan, thats only 2 weeks.

[Artimus Gigan]

I just edited my post above with more info, so look at that will you, and I said WORLDWIDE, and Nintendo first launched Nov 21 in US, and PSP Dec 5 in Japan, thats only 2 weeks.I'm talking about the US
(besides wasn't the DS launched in japan earlier than in the US?)


a system can still suceed in the US and doesn't need to suceed in japan to work

Point in fact is the X-Box

that used to be the case where it failed in japan it failed in the states, but that's not the case anymore.

[peacebyanymeans]

I'm talking about the US
(besides wasn't the DS launched in japan earlier than in the US?)


a system can still suceed in the US and doesn't need to suceed in japan to work

Point in fact is the X-Box

that used to be the case where it failed in japan it failed in the states, but that's not the case anymore.
No. DS was in US like a week before Japan.

That's only because you have Windows backing you up.

Nintendo and probablly even sony couldn't take that much of a loss.

[Artimus Gigan]

No. DS was in US like a week before Japan.

That's only because you have Windows backing you up.

Nintendo and probablly even sony couldn't take that much of a loss.The hell does Windows have to do with the consoles?

Unless you mean just because you think that people who used windows automaticly bought the X-Box by relation.

Which is not the case...

The reason to X-Box's success is the online LIVE games, Halo, and KOTOR, among a few things..

360 is shaping up to be a formitable power...

[peacebyanymeans]

The hell does Windows have to do with the consoles?

Unless you mean just because you think that people who used windows automaticly bought the X-Box by relation.

Which is not the case...

The reason to X-Box's success is the online LIVE games, Halo, and KOTOR, among a few things..

360 is shaping up to be a formitable power... No, i'm saying Microsoft's Windows backed up the Xbox in it's major profit loss. The Xbox has lost money on every one sold.


I’ll start with Microsoft. As I alluded to earlier, the Xbox isn’t exactly doing a lot for Microsoft financially. Every fiscal year, Microsoft has reported a sizeable loss in operating earning for its Home and Entertainment division. Now, the Home and Entertainment division does not only do Xbox – it also does PC games and Microsoft’s “TV platform” – but the Xbox makes up the largest part of the division.

The news isn’t all bad – in Microsoft’s second quarter of fiscal year 2005, the Home and Entertainment division made profit for the first time ever, thanks to $300 million in sales by Halo 2 alone and overall revenue of $1.4 billion. Microsoft ended the quarter with an operating profit of $84 million. However, the very next quarter, the Home and Entertainment division was back to where it began, with sales of $593 million but an operating loss of $154 million. That kinda cancels that one out, doesn’t it?

Backtracking, in the first quarter of fiscal year 2005, the Home and Entertainment division reported $632 million in revenue, but ended with an operational loss of $142 million. And in the fourth quarter of fiscal year 2004, the Home and Entertainment division reported $499 million in revenue, but a $339 million operational loss.

Put it all together, and for the last four quarters, Microsoft’s Home and Entertainment Division has reported revenue of over $3.1 billion but a $551 million operational loss. The Xbox’s selling at a loss, as well as very high marketing spending, were major contributors to the operational loss.

http://nintendoinsider.com/site/media/latestline4-1.jpg

[Artimus Gigan]

No, i'm saying Microsoft's Windows backed up the Xbox in it's major profit loss. The Xbox has lost money on every one sold.The consoles are supposed to lose money on each one sold...this stratagy has been in place for years.

They make in up in game and assecory sales

[peacebyanymeans]

The consoles are supposed to lose money on each one sold...this stratagy has been in place for years.

They make in up in game and assecory sales
Your kidding, right?

[Artimus Gigan]

Your kidding, right?No, IIRC that was the entire stratagy to the PS2 when it launched...

why else do systems drop in price in the months ahead?

The inital expense is to see how many people can be drawn in

The lowered price is to draw more people in later


Everyone needs games,memory cards, and controlers...

so they have those cusion it

[peacebyanymeans]

Okay, heres more. When Nintendo and Sega were in the bussiness, first starting out, the Game industry wasn't as big and profitable as it is today, so they probablly didn't lose any money on their hardware. And probablly neither did PS1. But the idustry became more profitable and with the Playstation name behind it, the PS2 could take a loss and make up for it with sales. However, Xbox has had major losses and hasn't made them up yet. And doesn't expect ot until 2007. Now, Nintendo has made money on every single system they ever realsed (excluding the Virtual Boy).

[peacebyanymeans]

why else do systems drop in price in the months ahead?
Maybe because the manufacturing price drops?

[Artimus Gigan]

Okay, heres more. When Nintendo and Sega were in the bussiness, first starting out, the Game industry wasn't as big and profitable as it is today, so they probablly didn't lose any money on their hardware. And probablly neither did PS1. But the idustry became more profitable and with the Playstation name behind it, the PS2 could take a loss and make up for it with sales. However, Xbox has had major losses and hasn't made them up yet. And doesn't expect ot until 2007. Now, Nintendo has made money on every single system they ever realsed (excluding the Virtual Boy).Nintendo as been around for 100+ years, they started out making playing cards

The Game Industry was in a slump due to the Atari crash

Microsoft is a bigger company than both it's competitors and as loads of money, and thus taking the X-Box performance into account they started working on it so it'll be the first one out of the gates...


Maybe because the manufacturing price drops?Not really, unless it's redesigned like the PSONE and PSTWO


Sofar none of any of the systems(handheld or otherwise) show any signs of waining...

they all seem to be going strong

[peacebyanymeans]

Nintendo as been for 100+ years, they started out making playing cards

The Game Industry was in a slump due to the Atari crash

Microsoft is a bigger company than both it's competitors and as loads of money, and thus taking the X-Box performance into account they started working on it so it'll be the first one out of the gates...

Not really, unless it's redesigned like the PSONE and PSTWO I know, i meant Nintnedo first making consoles, I said that wrong. Sorry.

The Atari crash? I thought it was the Arcade crash, anyways it doesn't matter. The industry wasn't as profitable.

My point! The only reason the Xbox didn't fail was because it was run by Microsoft. The richest company in the world.

And isn't the PSTwo most costly than the PS2? IDK, i just thought. Don't quote me on that.

[peacebyanymeans]

This is getting of topic...

[Artimus Gigan]

I know, i meant Nintnedo first making consoles, I said that wrong. Sorry.

The Atari crash? I thought it was the Arcade crash, anyways it doesn't matter. The industry wasn't as profitable.

My point! The only reason the Xbox didn't fail was because it was run by Microsoft. The richest company in the world.

And isn't the PSTwo most costly than the PS2? IDK, i just thought. Don't quote me on that.PSTWO casted out alot of parts that were in the original PS2 model.

It's also why it can't use the HD.

And what does it's wealth have to do with anything? If Nintendo didn't have it's wealth during the virtua boy phase it would have folded.

Sony's failed Playstation Pocket as well

Just because a company is already big doesn't mean it's system isn't more or less worthy when they decide to create a videogame division.

Microsoft used to make computers, but they just switched to mainly an OS provider

[.bg]

The PSP was just an attempt to capitalize on the popularity of the DS. Needless to say, it didn't work. Sony has half the numbers Nintendo does in sales.

Also, why the heck did Sony even release it knowing full well that the Pocketstation failed? I want to get a Pocketstation, though...

[Artimus Gigan]

The PSP was just an attempt to capitalize on the popularity of the DS. Needless to say, it didn't work. Sony has half the numbers Nintendo does in sales.

Also, why the heck did Sony even release it knowing full well that the Pocketstation failed? I want to get a Pocketstation, though...Pocketstation sucks

It's pretty much like that LED Screen Memorycard for dreamcast...only it works for like 1 or 2 american games..

[Nin-Nin69]

Ok time for me to shead a little insite on this topic.

As stated before, Sony and Nintendo are going for two different auidences while trying to fulfill the same needs.

Sony is going for the average joe that loves to go to the movies while lissening to his iPod. Why not have these people do all of that while enjoying the Sony library of games? That's been Sony's advantage since Playstation. Going for the people who don't seem all that intrested in the back story of most hot titles. And it's always worked in their favor. However their new cutting edge stragity kinda ruined the meaning to be a gamer in the US and spawned awful things such as Stuff Gamer, Spike TV Video Game Awards, and a majority of G4TV.

Nintendo on the other hand is still focused on the gaming auidence. Even though they keep kids in mind, that still makes them have an advantage to the hard shelled console in case kids drop it. Not to mention this was very attractive to busniess men and women that never even dreamed of playing games before. Read the news reports in Japan. That's who's playing Nintendogs the most. Yet Nintendo is holding back to see what the PSP does and they're already working on a MP3 device for the DS/GBA and online support.

When I'm at a bus station, the airport, or somewhere that people travel far and wide that get bored easily, I see the same patterns with people. Older kids have the PSP's while younger or old school gamers have the DS. Some may have both. You don't know unless you ask.

Not to be a Nintendo FB or anything, but right now I've just got the DS. I've got over 10 games, but some of them were imported from Japan since they'd never reach our shores like Naruto. They have an outstanding library of games and the uses for the touch screen with voice recognition make the ideas endless. Feel the Magic, Pac Pix, Wario Ware Inc, and Kirby Canvas Curse have broken new mediums in the gaming universe. The only God awful game I've seen so far are Pix Pals and the extremly short and easy Goldeneye remake. Sony has some outstanding games, but most of them are remakes as of now and I don't care much for PS1 ports. Plus some of the games on there now could work better on PS2.

However the real reasons I don't own the PSP yet is for two specific reasons. One was the factor that Sony kept juggling around that the PS3 could play PSP games for the past year or so. As of now this doesn't seem possible anymore. So getting the PS3 to play PSP games would be around the price of a PSP plus a game. Too bad Sony won't go through with it. The other reason is that the console is far to expensive for my taste in a handheld. Even N-Gage sounded silly for $300 with all of the neat features that had. I'll eventually wait until the price will drop down to $150 new or used and I'll get one in a heartbeat.

[Zach]

they're already working on a MP3 device for the DS/GBA and online support.
It's been out in Japan for months. (MP3 player, not WIFI)

[peacebyanymeans]

It's been out in Japan for months. (MP3 player, not WIFI) yeah, that Play-Yan thing. You can watch Movies too on it, as long as you have it saved on an SD card, which isn't hard to do. And SD cards are cheap.