Justice League Unlimited "Panic in the Sky" Talkback (Spoilers)

[Bird Boy]

Part 3 of the Cadmus finale...


http://worldsfinestonline.com/WF/jlu/talkback.jpg (http://worldsfinestonline.com/WF/jlu/)

Episode #24 - Panic in the Sky
Original Airdate - July 9th, 2005

With the founding members out of action, the remaining 50 heroes fight to survive Cadmus’ ultimate attack on the Justice League.

Comments?

[FlyByNite77]

Military dude: "Where's Batman?"

Flash: "Running late. The Batmobile lost a wheel, the Joker got away..."

ROFL!!!!:D :D :D :D :D

[Railith]

Batman's "This is the dumbest plan ever" thing made my day.

Hehe an army of evil wonder twins is perhapse the greatest evil plan ever. Brainiac Lex is freaky awesome looking and I'm hoping for a great fight ahead.

[DarkHawk]

What aa awesome fight!!!!!! Creeper, Atom Smasher, Fire, Huntress.....we saw all most of the league kick some butt. While this wasn't as good as the last few weeks the action totally ruled!! This is the action we should have seen doing that Booster Gold episode.

I was very surprised that the Supes made everyone turn themselves in. I loved Bats reaction to it though.

So Waller listened to Bats eh? Hmmm Batman again uses his brain :)

Powergirl is brutal....she kicked Steels butt:eek:

And finally omg Lex is Brainiac?!!! I didn't see THAT one coming:eek: :eek: :eek:

[Smitty61050]

Forgive my ignorance, but who is Brainiac?

[Youko Recca]

That was great. The melee in the Watchtower was fantastic. You can't believe how badly I wanted to be up there fighting, opponents all over the place. Crazy good. And then the mayhem isn't for nothing, and freakin Brainiac man....damn. Galatea messed Steel and Supergirl up perfectly, you want pain, there it is. Great episode.

[SilverKnight]

One thing I didn't understand. If GL has seen on a hundred different worlds that a space-based weapon always destablized planetary politics, why the crap did he wait until just then to mention it?

Other than that, freakin' fantastic. Finally, a chaotic brawl done right.

"Batmobile? Lost a wheel. The Joker got away. ...That's what I heard."

Love it. :D

[PaQ]

Wow.. So Braniac has been parading as Lex this whole time? I wonder if that means Lex is in captivity somewhere or if that's really Lex that Braniac is inhabiting.

And dang Power Girl got toasted.. It was nice to see the other members get a chance to shine as they threw down those Ultimen fakes. Atom Smasher, Star Girl, Wild Cat among others, it was very entertaining. Great episode.

[Mighty_Bojingo]

Its about freakin' time that stupid lady sees the light. Plus Brainiac's appearance was COMPLETELY unexpected and COMPLETELY out of the blue. (Although that would explain Lex's strength and powers)

Am I imagining things? Or was Brainiac trying to re-create that super-android for himself? If Brainiac obtains that android's abilities, then the Justice League and the rest of the universe can just kiss their booties goodbye. (Speaking of Mr.Golden Android, where is he? He would have made an excellent addition to the league.)

[Kino]

Wow. Never have I been so thankful for the absence of the rumor thread. I never in a million years saw this coming. Thank you, all involved in JLU, for blasting my synapses!

[Solitude1]

Hehheh. The Flash line about Batman running late and Batman's reply to "the plan" cracked me up. Nice to have some humor during this ep.

The whole new league fight scene was pretty good I guess. Power Girl or Galatea really whooped some ass.:eek: Jesus. For her to be electrocuted and then defeated was kind of lame. I really hope we get to see her character again. She could really grow into something. The scene where she tells Hamilton her goodbyes and calls him daddy was a bit touching. Once again I hope she returns...

Lex you sly dog....all this time. However, Brainiac coming out of nowhere....uh...they better have a good explanation of this.:sweat:

4 stars only because Galatea was defeated too easily, the league fight could have been a bit better, and Brainiac appearing is something that better hold the plot well.

[Dr Crocodile]

Since when is the Creeper part of the Justice League? On another note, Batman was awesome in this episode. Gotta say though the Lex=Brainiac twist was crazy (though I think someone mentioned they saw his symbol in a previous episode but it was still an OMGWTF moment). How many episodes are left in the season and where will it all go now?

5/5 stars.

[Stickman]

So, I guess "Panic in the Sky" didn't live up to it's acronym (PITS), after all.

Man, that cliffhanger's gonna keep me up for... a week.

Loved Flash's "Batmobile" line, as well as his "Ta-da" at the end.

Divided we Fall out to be something special.

[Archangel2385]

They stole my idea. In a fanfic I had planned, I had Brainaic returning to Earth to get AMAZO's blueprints; after all, if there was ever an "idol" that Brainaic should have, it would be AMAZO. Oh well, I tip my hat to Bruce Timm. & Co., for you have executed a version of my story very well ;) .

Anyways, this episode was great. Not "Flashpoint" or "Question Authority" great, but great nonetheless. We finally see a whole lot more of the JLU in action (so glad to see Dr. Light again). Even got a brief appearance by Question and Huntress :D . However, a few things are bugging me . . . .

1) Where is the real Lex or is that Brainaic-thing really Lex?
2) How the crap does Brainaic expected to beat both Cadmus and the JLU on his one as suggested in "Divided We Fall"?

Other than that, great episode, more detailed review later . . . . .

[Hockey Mask]

Galatea grabbing Supergirl's hair and punching her was just brutal...

I bet I will like this episode more after repeated viewings. I need to get used to the direction the storyis headed. Not where I expected.

[MrTuesday]

Forgive my ignorance, but who is Brainiac? Braniac Bio (http://wf.toonzone.net/WF/superman/bios/villains/brainiac/)

[Temple Fugate]

"Ta-da!" Okay, ignoring the bogus ending for now...

The episode was about as great as last week's. Superman made the right decision to turn the League in, unfortunately that angle didn't get any attention because we were too busy watching the Ultimen get the biggest beating we've seen since...well, not too long ago when Superman fought Captain Marvel. That massive battle was simply spectacular, and almost worth the buildup. Almost. What really paid off was the Supergirl vs Galatea fight, which ended in an eerie twist as Supergirl zapped and possibly killed Galatea (dead bodies can twitch, mind you). Either way you look at it, she's toast for a long time.

Batman shared another nice scene with Waller, which was a proper throwback to "Doomsday Sanction." Waller's discovery of Lex's deeds prompted a believable turn of face.


One thing I didn't understand. If GL has seen on a hundred different worlds that a space-based weapon always destablized planetary politics, why the crap did he wait until just then to mention it?VERY good point.

HOWEVER. The ending. Okay, before I get to that, other things about this episode that might get ignored because everyone is so distracted by Brainthor/Luthiac. (I prefer Brainthor. It's cornier.) As I mentioned earlier, the League turning themselves into US custody was a strong plot point, and the scene where the general refuses to cuff the League was great. But after that...there was nothing. The fight scene at the 'Tower took too much away from this point. "Well, Temple Fugate, what do you suggest we have seen? The League sitting in the jail cell?" Yes! Perhaps they could have been told about the Watchtower, but Superman tells them all to stay calm and not try and break out of the prison to save their friends. I can definitely see Superman saying "No...they can handle it on their own." It could mirror Steel's admiration speech. Maybe Waller could have even shown up in person to get them out. Of course, we wouldn't be surprised to see them appear in Lexcorp. But then, how many surprises can one take before we just stop believing what we see?

Which brings me, at last, to the ending. Surprise after surprise after surprise. 1)Luthor: I'm building AMAZO LEX! 2)Waller says "I DON'T THINK SO!" 3)Oh, snap! She busted out the Big Seven! 4)Oh, super-snap! HE'S BRAINTHOR! All of these sudden occurences in such a short amount of time caused a little bit of resistance from me. I think the Brainthor thing could have been swallowed easier if it was the ONLY surprise in that scene. If the flow of the episode had been more "Okay, Waller got them out of jail. Oh boy, they're gonna get Lex! This is gonna be killer!" and built up more anticipation, perhaps the surprise wouldn't have seemed as out-of-left-field as it was.

But then again, I'm not qualified to be on the writing staff for a major animated series, so perhaps I'm just speaking out of my butt. :sweat: Anyway, still a good episode. It's always good to see a Leaguer I've never heard of get some dialogue.

Justice League Unlimited 2x11: "Panic in the Sky" (Part 3 of 4) - ****

BRAINTHOR FOR PRESIDENT
to be continued...

[Alpha Man]

Yes! That was quite an episode! It leaves many questions to be answered by the following episode, but I give it FIVE STARS! And you can't get any better than that.

I loved Batman's reluctance to turn himself in! Though I wish some of the other characters (like Hawgirl) would have said something. I thought Flash was being sarcastic there. Really, I was. He said, "Oh yeah. That makes sense." And I thought that was a joke. Then he votes in favor of the turning-in and I am thrown way off.

I also loved how Amanda Waller turned out to be a good guy... er... girl/gal/person. Uh. Yeah.

I never suspected Luthor was building another Amazo. And I was confused. If he has so much strength in his current body, why have a new one? Batman and Amanda were cool on how they tried to take down Luthor. Since Amanda Waller gooified it, what's Luthor gonna do now?

Oh yeah, "Luthor"? I knew it was Brainiac, and I recall making a comment that he might show up in the last ep discussion.
http://wf.toonzone.net/WF/jlu/episodes/flashpoint/18.jpg

[Metallo]

3.5 stars (out of 5)

A pretty decent episode. The action with the entirety of the JL beating down the Ultimen clones was sweet. Plus Batman telling the rest of the League that their plan was stupid was classic!

Nice that we got to see Red Tornado fend off the Wind Dragon Ultimen.

Nice that Captain Atom comes to save the day for The Question and Huntress.

And boy did Supergirl really give Tea the chair! I thought Tea was still inhibited from being super violent due to her psychic link with Supergirl? And boy did Steel take a beating...

And the JL cheering when the lights came on, and then the "Awww" when they went right off, man that was funny.

[Railith]

Forgive my ignorance, but who is Brainiac?
Spoilered to be safe.
He's an evil Krypton computer robot that wants to absorb all information and delete it. Fought Superman a couple of times and was owned.

[fantastic 7]

Great episode all the way. that fight in the watchtower was totally awsome;) . nice to have steel be more involved. but i wish I could have seen MM kick butt:D

Batman was great in this esp. his reaction to turning himself in.

I can't believe Lex is Brainiac!!!:) next episode should be really good

Oh and could someone tell me why supergirl's clone was so much more powerful than her?

[Caswin]

And this, in turn, trumps The End part II.

WOW. This just keeps getting better and better. Someone - I forget who, sorry - said in reference to the final battle with Billy Numerious, "A fight involving hundreds of combatants should be breathtaking." Ya happy now? :p In particular, wonderful bit with Huntress defending The Question, and then... well, you saw. Then you've got those fights in the third act... I'd just like to point out another great moment as the lights come back on. "Whoooo!" *Zap* "Awwww." Batman vs. Luthor... excellent. It all comes together, and then... look out! Did NOT see that coming.

5/5, easily.

[Mister Intensity]

The filler episode of the season finale.

Mister Intensity

[Rabi~en~Rose]

if we're counting ALOTO then this is the 2nd time Braniacs taken over someones body. its also the second time Braniacs used Lex. running out of ideas much? :p even if those are re-used ideas that didn't stop the ending from shocking me to pieces :eek:

all of this season they build Superman up as a super jerk and now only in the last couple of episodes do they make him the goodguy again :sweat: him and the league turning themselves in were just great its to bad a little more of that couldn't have been shown.

the JL isn't to smart having that space station they're sitting ducks and put themselves "above" the people. heres hoping their base is relocated down on the Earth. WW was actually bearable for once with her diplomatic type lines of how they should get rid of the cannon :)

league vs the Ultimen melee battle was just cool and did you notice even the Watchtower employees didn't back down? in a place filled with heroes none were there to help so these regular people stood and fought to protect the place like real heroes. that moment should be remembered most

[Human Shield]

The League turning themselves in was a great plot point, never thought it.

I think the last time Brianic was on Earth was Knight Time (http://wf.toonzone.net/WF/superman/episodes/KnightTime/). Brianic had somehow got from Lex computers (before getting erased in Ghost in the Machine (http://wf.toonzone.net/WF/superman/episodes/GhostMachine/)) to Wayne's systems.

Brianic has controlled people with nano bots before, he must have gotten into Lex's cancer suit and filled up Lex's body (should have appeared on scans thou). The real Lex is still in there but turning into a robo blob is going to be hard to recover from.

So an Amazo bot takes weeks to build? So the Earth could crank out the most powerful weapon in the universe every few weeks. Earth could conquer every race in the universe, slap up the green lanterns and the New Gods. The Hawk people should have just asked for an Amazo bot and the war would be over. Amazo is the biggest loophole in the DCAU in my opinion, the one Amazo needs to be a huge fluke that can't be repeated.

[Temple Fugate]

Since when is the Creeper part of the Justice League?Since "Initiation."

How many episodes are left in the season and where will it all go now? There are two episodes left. The next episode ends this arc. The final episode is a stand-alone episode that was originally written to end the entire DCAU. This was before b.t. & co. got a greenlight from CN to make another 13-episode season.

league vs the Ultimen melee battle was just cool and did you notice even the Watchtower employees didn't back down? that moment should be rememberedYes. That was a short but brilliant scene proving that EVERYONE can be a hero.

[shoujoaifan]

This Brainiac plot twist better produce something major. Yes its great Waller saw what Lex was doing, but we've been lead this entire time to expect a huge battle between the government and the JLU, where Superman and the 7 will have to face how they've gone too far and hopefully the government would see how far they've gone as well, that's supposed to be far reaching and affects how the future in "Epilogue" will be.

If this ends with everyhting all honky-dory, and that people just need to have faith in others and they'll try not to go over the edge, etc. then, whew, man.

(I don't expect the writers to write something that bad, but I am fearing that it might just be mediorce and a let down after all the build-up.)

[karasu]

Weird. As soon as Batman was thrown I thought "That grappling hook isn't goin to latch on everytime", and sure enough...

I liked the episode though. Gosh it's good to have story arcs again! Die standalone episodes, Die. It wasn't as good as the past two eps but it holds up quite nicely. I'm glad to see that the team took a few steps back and decided to use their head. Their emotions were running so high lately I expected nothing short of Armageddon and the ruin of the entire Unlimited concept. I should have known better though. Cadmus never perfected their genetic experiments, and they lost Doomsday awhile ago. Galatea was all they had left outside of high tech weaponry. The action was good for the most part. It was full of great moments but the overall flow wasn't as tight. Galatea seriously kicked the crap out of Kara and man did she look great doing it. . Maybe now Kara will take her position a little more seriously and buy a better uniform(Yeah..I'm reaching). I couldn't be happier that they took the godhood out of that ridiculous Amazo technology/nanotech in general!! And thank heaven there were no power debilitating handcuffs. @_@

I wonder when Braniac decided to go organic. I say that not only because he was merged with Lex, but he had Tentacles. What the? :eek: Did I miss something? Great stuff Team Timm, great stuff.

[CyberCubed]

So...has that NOT been Lex this entire season? If not, then we've been watching Braniac all season long? Wha?

[Pyro]

OH MY GOD, That was the coolest episode ever!!! I loved it so much! The episodes in this arc just keep topping each other. "Question Authority" was really good, and then "Flashpoint was shockingly amazing". Now, "Panic in the Sky" was the best out of these three! If this continues, the next two episodes are going to completely blow my mind.

I had just seen parts 1 & 2 of TT's "The End" and those were fantastic episodes, but still not as amazing as JLU was tonight. This episode literally had me out of my seat, whooping and hollering my reactions. :sweat: And I'm not one who usually gets so caught up in TV shows. But this was just amazing.

I expected it to be the big fight episode for the arc, and it was, but it was executed so brilliantly. Seriously. I loved the fight in the Watchtower, where a lot of the new heros got to have their moments. I love the little team Vigilante, Shining Knight, and Atom Smasher seem to have. The Ray!!! OMG, The Ray was in this episode, I haven't seen him since the Young Justice comic ended. Red Tornado too, he wasn't dead! And he really gave it to those 3 Wind Dragons. The whole fight scene was great.

Then there was Galatea vs. Supergirl. That could not have been any better. The dialouge between them was so interesting, and their battle was so brutal. Steel had a cool part in that too. I was so surprised when it looked like Supergirl was going to kill Galatea in the end, but she deserved it. I honestly don't know whether she's going to die or not, because when they showed her she was still twitching. But can't believe they got away with showing that! She looked so badly damaged. Yay JLU creative team!

Not to mention the actions the original 7 took, that was cool. And it was so perfect how Batman reacted. They couldn't just sit around and wait for someone to clear them. Batman really took matters into his own hands, while the League did what was probably best in their situation.

What else... I can't remember, I'm still too energetic from watching that episode. I did have one complaint about this episode though. It was too dang dark! I understand that the power was out, and that's cool and all, but I couldn't see everything that clearly. I mean, BTAS was really dark, but most of the time you could see what was going on...most of the time.:p Now that every thing is digital, I don't think they handled the darkness so well because the animation was so amazing otherwise. It just looked like it had a dark filter over it. (bleh >:-P)

And oh yeah, the end! The confrontation with Lex was so awesome! Batman was great, and that so could have been his last moment, had the others not come to his rescue. And to see Waller actually do something good? She was great in this also. And Lex, wow, his role in all of this has been so shocking. Lex/Brainiac? I can't wait to see where this goes. I don't know if I can wait a whole week.

Wow, what a great this was for DCAU fans. This episode was... simply orgasmic. *sigh*

[karasu]

We'll find out. If anything is for certain it's that Braniac loves explaining himself.

[Dens Maris]

The filler episode of the season finale.
That's a pretty lame attitude to have.

I echo what I said weeks ago. I don't know what it is, but I have no complaints with the way this season is ending. It's like I can suddenly forgive all the little flaws just because it's so damn good. Even if Braniac gets resurrected more often than your average Dragon Ball Z character, I'm just on the edge of my seat to see what's coming next. And I just realized THAT's how Lex's kryptonite-induced cancer problem was probably resolved, as well as the super-strength and prime physique. Yikes. How the hell...?

And oh, those fight scenes. So many highlights.

-- Red Tornado returning to beat three Wind Dragons in a contest of powers.

-- The general brawling scenes and how well they meshed together. Atom Smasher brought down a Longshadow and then one of the flyers (who whizzes by being chased in an earlier scene) traps three Juices underneath the collapsing body, like something out of Star Wars with X-Wings and TIE Fighters.

-- Black Canary opening up. Hip-tossing Wind Dragon, mule-kicking Downpour in the same motion, then letting the scream loose on all of them later on. It's strange that Superman and Aquaman both had trouble against the Ultimen, and there she was just annihilating them.

-- Galatea's beatdown on Steel and subsequent thrashing of Supergirl. For such one-sided fights, they was pretty taut. I thought she killed Steel when she brought down that huge debris slab on him; with half of his body exposed, he should by all means and rights have been killed instantly. I also commend the animators for actually beefing up Galatea this time; her physical superiority over Supergirl was easier to believe because of it.

-- That hilarious shot of Wildcat and Red Tornado pausing as the power comes back on- over a PILE of beaten Longshadows.

My hat goes off to the animation and storyboarding. Awesome through and through.

[Rosert Gnimhar*]

We'll find out. If anything is for certain it's that Braniac loves explaining himself.So true!!:D

As was alluded to earlier, I think its the "SHOCK after SHOCK" nature of this entire season finale four parter thus far that has made it such a stand out. Teen Titans arc is great and a really well thought out story with Raven, but what I think gives JLU the upper hand week after week IMO is that the story progression in Teen Titans, while interesting, is much slower, while JLU is so fast pace with a new surprise around every corner that just keeps the story rustling forward.

Again, another superb episode. 4/5*


Peace out!;)

RG*:knd1:

[Sinsio]

That's a pretty lame attitude to have.

Mister Intensity posted the exact same thing in Teen Titans, The End, Part Two thread. :yawn:

[screw on head]

Another awesome installment :cool:. I'll dare not to say "wow" for the third talkback in a row, that'd be boring, I'll go with "woah" this week. Woah. The hug Galatea gave Hamilton before she left was definately a scene I wouldn't expect to see, nice touch there. Having the league turn themselves in to comply with the Government was a logical step to go with, as was Batman deciding not to join with them. The [interior] shots of the missles crashing through the Watchtower walls seemed a bit weak, not sure why though.

The fights between the league members and the Ultimen looked great, things ran very smoothly. I wish Michael Dorn could've voiced Steel this time, but Phil Lamaar did a great job... hope Dorn could have a reprisal another time. The smackdown between Galatea and Supergirl was great, Steel got pretty roughed up though, glad to see him sporting the same face he did in STAS. Supergirl shocking Galatea was a nice way of doing away with her, thought for a second it might've turned out to be a real dark moment for Supergirl, but it didn't turn out quite that way.

The moments at Lexcorp were great. Waller melting Lex's Amazo mock-up was an expected surprise, certainly didn't see that one coming. Of course, what seemed to be Brainiac bursting out of Lex's body was the real shocker, just awesome! Can't wait to see next week, I'm thoroughly impressed so far :cool:.

[SirLemming]

Dang, man. Definitely didn't see that one coming. This episode wasn't as good on its own as the past two, but that's to be expected in a four-parter. There have to be dynamics; if the four-episode arc is completely comprised of "highs", then the end result is actually just bland. No need to compare separate episodes within the arc.

However, I would say that if the Ultimen's origin episode was better, their relevance to this story might pack more of a punch.

This continues to just be a really smart show. They didn't come out and drive it into your head that Waller was unaware that Lex fired the cannon; it was a plot point that was subtle enough to be interesting, but not just unexplained. I'm not sure exactly where I'm going with this point, but... I didn't quite realize last week that Waller really did believe that the JLU fired the cannon. So seeing that plot thread surface this week was really interesting.


The whole new league fight scene was pretty good I guess. Power Girl or Galatea really whooped some ass.:eek: Jesus. For her to be electrocuted and then defeated was kind of lame. Did you SEE what happened? That was friggin' brutal, man!

[susan123]

Another amazing episode. My favorite lines by the Flash "The Batmobile lost a wheel..." and Batman "You want me to WHAT!?" Great seeing B-Man being his bad assed self again. "I'm a part-timer remember". I knew he wouldn't go down that easily. I was surprised to see Waller listen to him though. It shows she can see reason. Didn't see Brainiac pretending to be Luthor though. Whoa. I hope they show the next episode at Comic Con next week otherwise I'll have to wait until July 18th to see "Divided We Fall". :(

JLU team, you guys rule!

[Bit Cloud]

Power Girl sure was brutal tonight, she beat the crap out of Steel and Kara. Then got herself fried.. Now I can't wait to find out about Brainiac

[Jiggle-Bot]

After that twister at the end we should keep in mind...


McDuffie says his only real peeve is when people write long critiques of episodes they haven’t yet seen based on what they have heard happens or, worse, what they think is going to happen. He believes they should view the content before condemning or endorsing it.The Luthor Brainiac twister in the end has really got alot of pple thniking bout the next episodes but i think we shouldn't be thinking:

Cop out! No Government vs the League!
Lame! No Kingdom Come!
They dropped the plot! No more character developement to Superman turning Justice Lord!

As DD said what we think is gonna happen next week doesn't mean its gonna happen next week.

"The ultiman" vs "League minus Seven" was a great way to let the other leagues have a role in the finale, with a cast of over 50 superheores fitting them into any coherent story line was gonna be tough

[Kieralinn]

"You want me to WHAT!?"
"This is the dumbest idea I've ever heard."
"I don't have to do anything...I'm a part-timer remember?"

Gotta love the BAT!:D Nice to see Eiling get what he deserved!

"Ta-DA!"
"The batmobile broke a wheel. The Joker got away. That's what I heard."
Love Flash too:p He's so silly!

This episode was great! Loved it and everything about it. Boy, Galatea sure went out gruesome. OUCH! But man, did she beat the crap out of Supergirl and Steel. Now that was a thrashing! Nice to see Captain Atom step up and do the right thing. Though I really wanted Question to turn around in the wind. You know how badly those hospital gowns cover the back. Wanna see the hiney.:p ;)

I think this season has just been absolutley killer. I really don't see how people have problems with it. It's been great drama and full of surprises and great dialog and fight scenes. What more could you want? Can't wait for next week. Brainiac's going to get a thrashing, me thinks.;)

[Bit Cloud]

I wonder if the explanation on Brainiacs appearance will get tied in with the Static Shock episode.

[Squall]

Wow! An amazing episode! It was everything I was hoping it would be, and then some. :p The only question I have is, who saved Batman from falling out of LexCorp's headquarters skyscraper? My brother walked by the TV, so all I saw was a mysterious hand stopping Batman from falling. (?)

Anyway, this episode is an example of the DCAU at its best.


They stole my idea. In a fanfic I had planned, I had Brainaic returning to Earth to get AMAZO's blueprints; after all, if there was ever an "idol" that Brainaic should have, it would be AMAZO. Oh well, I tip my hat to Bruce Timm. & Co., for you have executed a version of my story very well ;) .
Hey, I post my episode ideas here hoping that Bruce Timm & Co. "steal" my ideas! :D (I'm still hoping for a two-parter where Hades & Ares team up and try to start World War III... :cool: )


So an Amazo bot takes weeks to build? So the Earth could crank out the most powerful weapon in the universe every few weeks. Earth could conquer every race in the universe, slap up the green lanterns and the New Gods. The Hawk people should have just asked for an Amazo bot and the war would be over. Amazo is the biggest loophole in the DCAU in my opinion, the one Amazo needs to be a huge fluke that can't be repeated.
I don't think AMAZO can be built easily by regular humans. It was implied in "Tabula Rasa" I believe that Dr. Ivo had spent much of his professional life working on AMAZO. Now, an intergalactic threat like Brainiac, however... I can see Brainiac building an AMAZO in a few weeks. ;)

[JusticeLeagueLegion]

That was awe flippin' some! Perhaps the best episode yet! Crammed with so many heroes! And that part at the end with Luthor/Brainiac or whatever in god's name that thing was, that was weird!! This episode rocks!! "The Adventures Of Superman" episode that was titled "Panic In The Sky" was a pretty good episode too. Not that it had anything to do with this. Anyway, this episode rocked. Steel was awesome...both of them. (I mean both Steels) So Steel said there is about 60 other League members but in this thread it says 50. So how many is it? I tried to count once but it got to exausting. Anywho, can't wait for next weeks' episode. Dwayne McDuffie, you rock! You always have! Write more episodes! Bring in some Milestone heroes while you're at it...if you want to anyway.

[warmachine04]

"Panic in the Sky" is a pure 100% superhero slugfest. The previous episodes have been building to a most exciting finale that will have fans jumping out of their seats. The battle between the League and the Ultimen was truly stunning. The story is somewhat uneven but has some great moments and good dialogue. The animation is top-notch. Can't wait for next week.

PS. It was quite smart not to leave any spoilers of the upcoming episode to keep viewers hooked on this season's finale.:D :D

[Phantasm]

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
I misssed this.
Will it air again?:crying:

[Robert McSantos]

-- Red Tornado returning to beat three Wind Dragons in a contest of powers.

I do find it ammusing that T.O. Morrow can make better artificial soldiers than the entire United States Government. You'd think with our hundreds of hightly paid scientists and engineers we'd be able to show up one single super villain.

[Phantasm]

Tomorrow at 10:30 PM. It won't be widescreen, but it's better than nothing.
YES!!!!!!
YES!
Thank you!:)

[Squall]

If they read your ideas, they can't use them. So, if they do end up doing that story, it'll be because they thought it up themselves.
:eek:
That wasn't my idea! I actually read that in an interview somewhere on ToonZone... with who? ...I don't remember. But I'm pretty sure I did!

[Pyro]

"Ta-da!" Okay, ignoring the bogus ending for now...

The episode was about as great as last week's. Superman made the right decision to turn the League in, unfortunately that angle didn't get any attention because we were too busy watching the Ultimen get the biggest beating we've seen since...well, not too long ago when Superman fought Captain Marvel. That massive battle was simply spectacular, and almost worth the buildup. Almost. What really paid off was the Supergirl vs Galatea fight, which ended in an eerie twist as Supergirl zapped and possibly killed Galatea (dead bodies can twitch, mind you). Either way you look at it, she's toast for a long time.

Batman shared another nice scene with Waller, which was a proper throwback to "Doomsday Sanction." Waller's discovery of Lex's deeds prompted a believable turn of face.

VERY good point.

HOWEVER. The ending. Okay, before I get to that, other things about this episode that might get ignored because everyone is so distracted by Brainthor/Luthiac. (I prefer Brainthor. It's cornier.) As I mentioned earlier, the League turning themselves into US custody was a strong plot point, and the scene where the general refuses to cuff the League was great. But after that...there was nothing. The fight scene at the 'Tower took too much away from this point. "Well, Temple Fugate, what do you suggest we have seen? The League sitting in the jail cell?" Yes! Perhaps they could have been told about the Watchtower, but Superman tells them all to stay calm and not try and break out of the prison to save their friends. I can definitely see Superman saying "No...they can handle it on their own." It could mirror Steel's admiration speech. Maybe Waller could have even shown up in person to get them out. Of course, we wouldn't be surprised to see them appear in Lexcorp. But then, how many surprises can one take before we just stop believing what we see?

Which brings me, at last, to the ending. Surprise after surprise after surprise. 1)Luthor: I'm building AMAZO LEX! 2)Waller says "I DON'T THINK SO!" 3)Oh, snap! She busted out the Big Seven! 4)Oh, super-snap! HE'S BRAINTHOR! All of these sudden occurences in such a short amount of time caused a little bit of resistance from me. I think the Brainthor thing could have been swallowed easier if it was the ONLY surprise in that scene. If the flow of the episode had been more "Okay, Waller got them out of jail. Oh boy, they're gonna get Lex! This is gonna be killer!" and built up more anticipation, perhaps the surprise wouldn't have seemed as out-of-left-field as it was.

But then again, I'm not qualified to be on the writing staff for a major animated series, so perhaps I'm just speaking out of my butt. :sweat: Anyway, still a good episode. It's always good to see a Leaguer I've never heard of get some dialogue.

Justice League Unlimited 2x11: "Panic in the Sky" (Part 3 of 4) - ****

BRAINTHOR FOR PRESIDENT
to be continued...Good post! I see your point. It would have been nice to have those scenes with the League, but you can only get so much into a 22 min show. A scene like that would have added more to their characters, but then something that was in this episode would have to have been cut out and I certainly enjoyed it the way it was. However, perhaps if the whole of JLU could be released on a DVD set, and if it showed this 5 parter as a movie, they could make an extended edition and add more scenes like that. I'd certainly buy it! Hehe, that's wishful thinking though.

Some things I forgot to mention in my other post: Yeah, that was hilarious when the JLU members cheered when the lights came back on, and then they went off again. And Flash's lines were funny too. I also thought it was kind of funny when Supergirl picked up poor little battle-damaged Atom. He was so small! I thought the scene with the missiles attacking the Watchtower was very effective, and then when Ultimen started popping out of them, wow. They sure crammed a lot into this episode. And the dialouge was top-notch!

Also, I think the direction the Brainthor (*snicker*) plot is going is so brilliant! It seemed that Luthor's big plan was to make himself into an Amazo, which would have been a great continuation of the events in "The Return." But then Brainiac popped out of him and said something about using it as his own body... honestly can't wait to see how it all ends up.

Mister Intensity, your comment that it was a filler episode seemed somewhat flippant. Whether or not you thought it was filler doesn't mean that you couldn't still enjoy the episode. Since you didn't elaborate on your statement, I don't understand what your point was. When you say it was "filler" do you grasp that it was part of a 4-part story arc? If so, it certainly 'filled' it's part making your statment quite obvious. However, it seems that you intended your use of "filler" to have a slightly more negative connotation.

[SirLemming]

Wow! An amazing episode! It was everything I was hoping it would be, and then some. :p The only question I have is, who saved Batman from falling out of LexCorp's headquarters skyscraper? My brother walked by the TV, so all I saw was a mysterious hand stopping Batman from falling. (?) That was it for that scene, but I assume it was one of the many flying founding members of the JLU, probably Wonder Woman judging by the way the hand/arm looked. Remember how at the end they all flew in via the same window Batman was thrown out of?

[Master Moron]

That was the greatest fight scene on Justice League Unlimited ever. I absolutely loved seeing the Justice League beat the crap out of the Superfriends. The superfriends just kept on coming and coming, but they didn't stand a chance against the Justice League. It was so awesome. This was the first Justice League episode that I gave 5 stars to, it was perfect.

Supergirl's shirt sure is stretchy. You'd figure when her clone grapped her shirt that it would lift up some, but it must be made of some type of special material that adheres to her skin or something, cause man, that shirt stretched.

I too thought Steel should have died. How the hell did he survive that?

One question, when Batman confronted Waller, she was using a remote that Batman couldn't see. What was she doing?

[Dens Maris]

Turning off the screen- I thought she was getting some gatling gun ready to take out Bats, myself, but apparently it was more honest a gesture than it looked. Another throw-off. :sweat:

Supergirl's shirt seems to share the same Stretch Armstrong qualities as Superman's- I remember in "The Secret Society" when Parasite was leeching off Superman, he had a blanket-sized lump of Supes' shirt in his hands and his uniform was still in one perfect piece. Chock it up to Supercloth.

[SirLemming]

Supergirl's shirt sure is stretchy. You'd figure when her clone grapped her shirt that it would lift up some, but it must be made of some type of special material that adheres to her skin or something, cause man, that shirt stretched. Yeah. I think all us guys noticed that, and were dismayed.

[Master Moron]

By the way, I found it interesting how they cut away from the regular human watchtower workers as they charged towards the Superfriends, I wonder if they were killed? They must have been underpowered. Though, I suppose it's possible that a super powered leaguer was able to come by and save them.

[Pretentious]

I can never get tired of that battle scene. It always reminds me of something out of Dynasty Warriors which is just awesome.

[Jordo]

wow... I'm not sure what else to say... But like many of you I'm very confused if that's Braniac inside the actual body of Lex Luthor or ... If Lex Luthor is being held somewhere... or .. .??? Was that Lex Luthor in Clash? Or was it Braniac? Confused... but excited.

I have to rewatch it cause there's so much going on in the fight scenes. I was really happy to see Creeper again. And Batman never fails...anytime he's on screen it's great. His character is like the best and strongest and most solidified its ever been.

While I was loving Superman being a crazy jerk, it was a nice relief to see him hold himself back a bit and try to be more... friendly. It felt kind of good. It was also great seeing all 7 founding members...That speech Steel gave about them was also interesting.

I was a bit peeved when Flash said "a lot of minor injuries and no casualties"... Erggh... I really think there would be casualties in something so devastating. Or at the least MAJOR INJURIES. Cmon, MINOR injuries?? In my mind a lot of people died, while others lost limbs. It just raises the stakes so much better.

Anyway this is like the most exciting 5 weeks of TV ever. I can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to next week and especially to epilogue. My goodness.


-Jordan

[Space Cadet]

Yeah. I think all us guys noticed that, and were dismayed.
Well, it was expected. I thought the shirt was going to get lifted up, but it didn't. Maybe if this was made for Adult Swim or HBO....:D

[creativerealms]

I know what your thinking how could I have given this episode a 3.5/5? Well the answer is simple and complex at the same time.



The Cadmus plot has failed big time, ok I loved it until Brainiac/Luthor turned out to be the final villain of this arc. They could have done much better then this.


This is why I don’t hate the Bat-embargo as much as you guys. I mean they had to come up with this ridiculous plot twist to make a superman villain suitable for the league; I don’t even want to know what they would do to make batman’s rouges a threat. Luthor was great as part of Cadmus but not as the main villain of the plot arc, they really did not have to turn him into Brainiac to do it. I mean rather then having villains that would be a treat for the league we are having superman villains turned into threats. Makes me glad Batman’s villains won’t go though this. Still I want other villains to have the spot light too.

Still outside the ridiculous and forced ending this episode was great, but I still had to take away a point and a half for such a let down.


Oh I have came up with a little brainiac theory, Luthor never had cancer. That was but the initial stages of brainacs take over posing as cancer, which could explain why it was forgotten later on.

[Joker1238]

yeah Supergirl's shirt did stretch a lot. But it was wild hopeing I guess lol.

Great show, I like the Flash's Joke of the Joker. But it did make me think of one thing though.

Is the GOOD Longshadow dead??? I was looking for him in the fight, but it was hard to find him. Supergirl rock in her fight vs powergirl. And of couse Bats used his brains and wits. And Lex at the end was a shock for me.

[Dens Maris]

I think the implication is that good Longshadow and the original Ultimen died sometime after Ultimatum. And as sad as it is, I'm actually fine with that. The last we saw of them was Longshadow's tired but joyful smile at being allowed to join the heroes he had always admired, and I think that was the perfect note for them to go out on.

[Sue]

So Luthor's a Transfomer! I found out on another board that Brainiac would appear, but I didn't expect it would be through Lex. Clever :cool: The Watchtower Battle Royal was very nice. I love big, no holds barred slug-fests, and this one didn;t disappoint, though I had the impression someone was going to die.

Good stuff overall :anime:

[DeathscytheVII]

I'm somewhat saddened that with Brainthor's appearance, the tension between the government and the JL thats been building up for two seasons is gone. Poof, just like that, and the last ep will be focused on defeating a common enemy. Granted this may solve the problems between JL and the Government, but i was hoping for something more. The big bad guy makes things easier, i really wanted to see how the league was going to deal with cadmus, while at the same time, showing the people that they would not turn out of the lords, and regain their trust. But then again i guess that wouldn't make a very good action ep.

I really enjoyed this episode btw, from the beautiful fights, everyone had their momet. Captain Atom, the Question (TOILET!) and Red tornado! and so many more. Especially the normal station crews taking on the dinosaur. Wow, thats brave!

4 stars.

[Luke Cage]

..this was a filer episode. Not as good as the two previous shows IMHO. But the two previous episodes were pretty fantastic.

Good fight scenes and the Greatness of Batman aside:

1. Since when did a little eletricity become so lethal to a Kryptonian? Was there kyptonite in there or something?

2. Steel, minus armor, gets hit with a two ton weight and is not only alive but conscious?

3. The JLA founders turn themselves in and the military surrounds them with machine guns drawn? Really?

4. The Question (from his hospital bed) beats down one of the Ulitmen with a bed pan? A Bed Pan?

5. Luthor/Brainiac smacks a 300lbs woman (with no super powers) twenty feet across the room, into a solid wall, and she's not even woozy.

Just a few things that kind of made we scratch my head watching. None of these things have kept me from watching multiple times and enjoying the episode for what it is; a good show that's setting up one great finish.


"That's got to be the single dumbest plan I've ever heard." Of course it is, Superman came up with it.:) (I need to go watch that part again.)

[Golgo13]

This was a great episode. More than enough action, Flash gets in a good joke, Batman does what he does best and an old villain returns.

[Dens Maris]

1. Since when did a little eletricity become so lethal to a Kryptonian? Was there kyptonite in there or something?
Apparently, always, in the DCAU. Back in S:TAS, Superman was constantly being harmed by massive shocks by Livewire, and while he can take a lot and keep on ticking, he constantly groans out in pain when being electrocuted. I imagine the League's reactor wires have a little more punch in them than Livewire does, so...ow.

[Pyro]

Is the GOOD Longshadow dead??? I was looking for him in the fight, but it was hard to find him.I figure he's dead by now. If he didn't die already, he'd certainly have died during this fight because no one would have been able to tell him apart from all the other Longshadows.

[Squall]

You know, it is an excellent point some people are making about the Ultimen/JLU melee fight in the Watchtower -- at least a few JLU members should have died. That fight was far too brutal to not have been fatal for at least a few of the weaker JLU members!


Since when did a little eletricity become so lethal to a Kryptonian? Was there kyptonite in there or something?
I wouldn't call the electricity generated by a nuclear power plant inside a huge space station "a little." :sweat: Also, remember that even though Kryptonians that have absorbed yellow sunlight radiation are quite powerful, they're not invulnerable, or immortal. They can be killed, just like humans can... it just takes a lot more of whatever is lethal to us to kill them! :D

[Casey Mack]

I wouldn't call the electricity generated by a nuclear power plant inside a huge space station "a little." :sweat: Also, remember that even though Kryptonians that have absorbed yellow sunlight radiation are quite powerful, they're not invulnerable, or immortal. They can be killed, just like humans can... it just takes a lot more of whatever is lethal to us to kill them! :D
quite poweful?! what the hell try super powerful beings1 so with your logic superman could die if someone shot him with "alot" more bullets from a gun?:sad:
________
Suzuki gz series (http://www.suzuki-tech.com/wiki/Suzuki_GZ_Series)

[SirLemming]

I dunno, I think this is really just the natural evolution of the "Justice Lords" plotline. The tension between the JLU and the government is cool and all, but in the end, we know that the JLU is good at heart and that they'll have to get back on good terms with the government by the end of this thing. I guess they'll learn a few lessons by the time it's over (and of course, we'll have to reserve judgment until the last episode airs), but overall they're still the good guys, and the only way to prove that to the government -- or at least, the only way that's interesting to watch -- is to team up with them to fight a common enemy.
Plus, this latest twist actually undoes some of the issues that were raised before, because now it's solely Lex Luthor and/or Brainiac who's using sinister tactics (i.e. framing) to turn the government against the JLU, whereas the government is once again just being reasonable. Cadmus is more paranoid than the rest of the government, which is why they sent the Ultimen clones in retaliation to what they assumed was JLU's firing of the beam.

[karasu]

When Batman infiltrated Cadmus' briefing room, Waller quickly turned off some type of display before he could see it. What was on the screen exactly?

[Wizard]

Wow! An amazing episode! It was everything I was hoping it would be, and then some. :p The only question I have is, who saved Batman from falling out of LexCorp's headquarters skyscraper? My brother walked by the TV, so all I saw was a mysterious hand stopping Batman from falling. (?)
It was Hawkgirl. Process of elimination: the hand was clearly female, so Superman, GL, and MM are out. Flash can't fly. The wrist was bare. No silver bracelets, which WW wears and Hawkgirl does not. Therefore, Hawkgirl.

[Spectre]

The third episode of the JLU Season 2 finale is by far the hardest-hitting of the episodes aired so far. "Panic In The Sky" definitely delivers on its promising title, featuring one jaw-dropper after another.

I loved the wonderful spotlight the 'lesser' heroes got in the huge battle royale on the Watchtower. I'm pretty sure at least half of the 50+ heroes got little 'moments' where they took down an Ultiman in their own unique way. Highlights of the mega-brawl:

-Red Tornado owning three Wind Dragons
-Atom Smasher throwing a Javelin at a Longshadow like a toy airplane
-Creeper leaping from head to head, knocking out as he went
-Fire erupting from a Downpour's water trap
-Captain Atom blasting back a Wind Dragon from Huntress and Question, after Question knocked out one of the Ultimen with his BEDPAN :p
-The Watchtower's work force charging bravely at a Longshadow that had entered their midst

And then there was the ugly, ugly fight between Galatea, Supergirl, and Steel. Steel was the man in this episode: he reminded us all why we still look up to the Big Seven even when they err in judgment, and he kept in the ring with Galatea even as she beat the crap out of him. That fight got savage, and lethal: as others have mentioned, when Galatea crushed the half-armored Steel beneath that console I was sure she'd killed him.

Supergirl got in her fair share of licks, but she was almost owned by Galatea too. Galatea revealed her underlying brutality as she mercilessly thrashed Supergirl every time she got her hands on her. It's like Karen said: she's a weapon. She's been trained to slaughter her prey and she did, even ignoring Amanda Waller's call to stand down. It's actually kind of sad. Combined with Supergirl's sting about being 'a clone', and her touching moment with Professor Hamilton, a sobering picture of Galatea emerges: she's a good person at her heart who was twisted into a killing machine. It's a crime that can be laid solely at Cadmus's feet, and at least Hamilton ought to be ashamed of himself.

That's not to say Supergirl's hands are completely clean either. This was an interesting episode for her: she was forced into a leadership position by her cousin and she had to bear the responsibility that comes from being in the Super-Family. And with Superman gone, she had to take out the big baddie all by herself. So with her own life and the life of a friend on the line, Karen takes the final chance and uses lethal force. Let's not mince words here. Supergirl killed Galatea. I hope there isn't a cop-out from this: Galatea didn't look alive in the least, and Supergirl knew from the moment she pulled out that energy line that she would be attacking Galatea in hopes of killing her.

In this instance, deadly force was almost justified: Galatea wouldn't stop until everyone on the Watchtower was dead, and in particular she wanted to kill Supergirl very painfully. Given her inferior power level, Karen most likely had to cross some kind of line in order to beat her. Still, it remains that Supergirl killed her enemy in this episode, and we'll have to see how she deals with that.

Of course, the most powerful moment in this episode didn't come then, though it was close. The most powerful moment in the episode, treated with proper solemnity, touched down at that US military facility to turn themselves in. Superman willingly holding his hands up for the cuffs erases all my doubts about him over this season. His commitment to justice, to doing the right thing, is so great that he would willingly turn himself over to people he's suspicious of for a crime he didn't technically commit. This is the Man of Steel I know and love, the man committed to the principle of justice for all, even for himself. Willing to sacrifice everything, even his own freedom, to uphold the ideals he believes in. The other heroes' sacrifices were powerful as well, but it was Superman, after everything he's been through this season, who most resonated with me. At first I was horrified. Then I wanted to stand up and applaud.

Of course, Batman marching to his own drum also had me cheering. "This has to be the dumbest idea I've ever heard." CLASSIC. BATMAN. He's not a jerk, but he certainly lets you know when he thinks you're doing something stupid. This is why the League needs Batman: he cuts through the fluff and gets things done where they need to be. I'd wager that at that point, only Batman could have gotten through to Amanda Waller about Luthor's hidden agenda, and he did it with all the style and mojo we expect from the Dark Knight. It was nice to see Eiling finally get his, too. Batarang'd and punched. Nice.

Good to see Waller willing to be the bigger woman (no pun intended), and let the Justice League do their job by stopping Luthor. Or rather... Brainthor.

Oh, about that...

OMGWTF O_O

That is all I have to say about the ending. Next week's episode can't come fast enough.

A thoroughly-justified and well-deserved 5 Stars. And Supergirl is sexy. :anime:

[Luke Cage]

Also, remember that even though Kryptonians that have absorbed yellow sunlight radiation are quite powerful, they're not invulnerable
Maybe so, but I've seen Superman blasted point blank by Darkseid, The JLU Fusion Cannon, Livewire (I beleive in a nuclear powerplant), Captain Atom, Amazo, etc. and have never seen the result leave him twitching and chared from head to toe.

I can maybe buy the inferior clone thing, but why bother with kryponite at all if a nuclear reactor will do the trick on a Kryptonian? Luthor could have killed Superman years ago.

[CyberCubed]

Supergirl's shirt sure is stretchy. You'd figure when her clone grapped her shirt that it would lift up some, but it must be made of some type of special material that adheres to her skin or something, cause man, that shirt stretched.

To be honest that's what I was looking for to see if CN would allow them to get away with that....but sadly it didn't happen. :(

[Luke Cage]

....If that wasn't really Luthor at all? After the JLU Beats down Brainic, they rescue the real Luthor who resumes his bid for President.

Even more twisted.....Luthor escapes and defeats Brainiac on TV. Then the election is a slam dunk.

Either way..Luthor for President.

[bigddan11]

I didn't see that coming. Just when did Brainiac get into Luthor's system. It's a good thing that Cadmus and the League stopped Brainiac when he did though. Can you imagine how unstoppable Brainiac would have been in a copy of the andriod's body. Only the andriod would have stood a chance at beating him. Is the android even still alive? We haven't seen him since Hawkgirl returned.

[Revelator]

Yes. That was a short but brilliant scene proving that EVERYONE can be a hero.
I thought it was a bit dopey. They wisely cut away just as the puny humans charged the T-Rex, since the next few seconds would have consisted of the dino snacking on watchtower staff.
"We're faced with a 40 foot Tyranosaurus Rex! What shall we do?"
"Let's go 'Yaaaaah!' and run at it like idiots!"
"Sounds like a plan! Yaaaah!"
If the people in Jurassic Park handled dinos like the watchtower guys, the movie would have been 35 minutes long.

[Kieralinn]

It was Hawkgirl. Process of elimination: the hand was clearly female, so Superman, GL, and MM are out. Flash can't fly. The wrist was bare. No silver bracelets, which WW wears and Hawkgirl does not. Therefore, Hawkgirl.

I agree. Came to the same conclusion using the same logic. The arms were bare to far up for it to be anybody other than HG.



When Batman infiltrated Cadmus' briefing room, Waller quickly turned off some type of display before he could see it. What was on the screen exactly?
It was showing a read out of the battle at the Watchtower, with impact points, etc. She obviously turned it off so Batman wouldn't notice that the Watchtower was under attack...by them.

[karasu]

Maybe so, but I've seen Superman blasted point blank by Darkseid, The JLU Fusion Cannon, Livewire (I beleive in a nuclear powerplant), Captain Atom, Amazo, etc. and have never seen the result leave him twitching and chared from head to toe.

I can maybe buy the inferior clone thing, but why bother with kryponite at all if a nuclear reactor will do the trick on a Kryptonian? Luthor could have killed Superman years ago.
She's no Superman.

[TurtleTitan]

Wow. The Brainiac twist sure threw me over a loop. I'm just wondering if Luthor is infected by Brainiac or just a look-alike.

Either way, great, great stuff. Most of the positive things have been said already.

[mal]

Of course, the most powerful moment in this episode didn't come then, though it was close. The most powerful moment in the episode, treated with proper solemnity, touched down at that US military facility to turn themselves in. Superman willingly holding his hands up for the cuffs erases all my doubts about him over this season. His commitment to justice, to doing the right thing, is so great that he would willingly turn himself over to people he's suspicious of for a crime he didn't technically commit. This is the Man of Steel I know and love, the man committed to the principle of justice for all, even for himself. Willing to sacrifice everything, even his own freedom, to uphold the ideals he believes in. The other heroes' sacrifices were powerful as well, but it was Superman, after everything he's been through this season, who most resonated with me. At first I was horrified. Then I wanted to stand up and applaud.
I actually thought Superman's plan was pretty bizarre. I mean, turn yourself in until you can be proven innocent? What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

And, not only does the League turn itself in for a crime they KNOW they didn't commit, they turn themselves in for a crime that they weren't even charged with. The League wasn't even asked to come in for questioning.

And why would the League jump at the chance to turn themselves in to a government that's allied with a group that fired a nuclear weapon at them and stole and used their DNA without their permission. Are we to assume that the best place to fight a dangerous shadow ops group is in the prison of the government they work for.

At least the creative team gave us a scene where Batman tells the Big 6 how stupid the whole plan was.

[bigddan11]

Is the GOOD Longshadow dead??? I was looking for him in the fight, but it was hard to find him. Supergirl rock in her fight vs powergirl. And of couse Bats used his brains and wits. And Lex at the end was a shock for me.
They never specify that Longshadow is dead, however they did say The Ultimen had a limited amount of time left to live, so it can be assumed that Longshadow is dead. Even if he isn't dead, it's possible we couldn't see him battling because there were so many clones of him.

[batmanbeyond13]

Maybe they will touch upon Longshadow in the next season.

[Spectre]

I actually thought Superman's plan was pretty bizarre. I mean, turn yourself in until you can be proven innocent? What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

And, not only does the League turn itself in for a crime they KNOW they didn't commit, they turn themselves in for a crime that they weren't even charged with. The League wasn't even asked to come in for questioning.

And why would the League jump at the chance to turn themselves in to a government that's allied with a group that fired a nuclear weapon at them and stole and used their DNA without their permission. Are we to assume that the best place to fight a dangerous shadow ops group is in the prison of the government they work for.

At least the creative team gave us a scene where Batman tells the Big 6 how stupid the whole plan was.

Hey, I said it was a shining example of Superman's inherent goodness. I didn't say it was a smart idea.

[Squall]

Maybe so, but I've seen Superman blasted point blank by Darkseid, The JLU Fusion Cannon, Livewire (I beleive in a nuclear powerplant), Captain Atom, Amazo, etc. and have never seen the result leave him twitching and chared from head to toe.

I can maybe buy the inferior clone thing, but why bother with kryponite at all if a nuclear reactor will do the trick on a Kryptonian? Luthor could have killed Superman years ago.
Good point!

[Kieralinn]

Longshadow is dead, people. It was stated they only had a short time left...a matter of weeks, maybe days I think. He died being a part of the League like he always wanted. Fitting ending. Let it go people. He's not coming back.;)

[DLM]

A good episode, had its flaws... Steel's monologue for instance. But anyone who thought this was a great episode, just wait for next week and one of the most satisfying half hours of television ever produced.

[mal]

Hey, I said it was a shining example of Superman's inherent goodness. I didn't say it was a smart idea.
Good point.

[Wizard]

I actually thought Superman's plan was pretty bizarre. I mean, turn yourself in until you can be proven innocent? What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

And, not only does the League turn itself in for a crime they KNOW they didn't commit, they turn themselves in for a crime that they weren't even charged with. The League wasn't even asked to come in for questioning.

And why would the League jump at the chance to turn themselves in to a government that's allied with a group that fired a nuclear weapon at them and stole and used their DNA without their permission. Are we to assume that the best place to fight a dangerous shadow ops group is in the prison of the government they work for.

At least the creative team gave us a scene where Batman tells the Big 6 how stupid the whole plan was.
It was a gesture of trust. Yeah, on some level it was stupid (the level that the Bat operates on), but on a human level they were making themselves vulnerable. In order to gain trust, some must be given.

I agree that Longshadow is probably dead, but I wish that some mention was made. He actually joined the League. Unless he died very shortly after then he would have made some friends, seeing as how he was a less sunny Marvel. Having some Leaguers either be reluctant or very eager to take the Longshadows on would have been nice.

[Railith]

I'll second that. The more Karen's shirt got ripped, given how short it was already, the more I was convinced we'd see the bottoms of her breasts or something. I mean, from a purely objective viewpoint and all that.

I also agree with you, from a purely objective view of course. ;)

[Spectre]

Longshadow is dead, people. It was stated they only had a short time left...a matter of weeks, maybe days I think. He died being a part of the League like he always wanted. Fitting ending. Let it go people. He's not coming back.;)

I let it go at the end of "Ultimatum". Yay for apathy! :anime:

While we're on the subject of deaths, we're all in agreement that Galatea is dead, aren't we?

[Squall]

I didn't see that coming. Just when did Brainiac get into Luthor's system. It's a good thing that Cadmus and the League stopped Brainiac when he did though. Can you imagine how unstoppable Brainiac would have been in a copy of the andriod's body. Only the andriod would have stood a chance at beating him. Is the android even still alive? We haven't seen him since Hawkgirl returned.
I think that was Lex Luthor, the man himself... did you see the look of fear, of realizing he no longer had control, on his face when Brainiac asserted itself out of his body?

I can only imagine how powerful an upgraded Brainiac -- using an AMAZO body -- would be. :eek: As for the original AMAZO... all I can remember is that he retreated "a few light years away" when he was losing to the mindless Solomon Grundy. Maybe he's taking a nap in a quasar or something? :p

[Lightshade]

I thought it was a bit dopey. They wisely cut away just as the puny humans charged the T-Rex, since the next few seconds would have consisted of the dino snacking on watchtower staff.
"We're faced with a 40 foot Tyranosaurus Rex! What shall we do?"
"Let's go 'Yaaaaah!' and run at it like idiots!"
"Sounds like a plan! Yaaaah!"
If the people in Jurassic Park handled dinos like the watchtower guys, the movie would have been 35 minutes long.Well what were they supposed to do? Cower in the corner and wait to be turned into dino kibble?:shrug: Now that would have been dopey.

I LOVED Question using a bed pan.And Creeper head butting one of the Ultimen.And Red Tornado vs. the 3Wind Dragons.And Captain Atom protecting Huntress&Question.Heck, I loved the whole episode.Only thing I didn't like was the ending.Brainiac posing as Luthor?Just gave off a "Meh" vibe to me.

[jackofficer]

I think the more important question is... what happened or has happened to Luthor?

Any twist soon? That would be insane, because they already:

1. The Justice 7 decide to turn themselves in, chances of Justice Lords lessened.
2. Amanda Waller finding out that Lex cheated Cadmus. AND Waller actually believed Batman. Waller actually believed they fired it.
3. Lex was building a Amazo-like android, to gain super powers, in a couple of weeks, yet it took Dr Ive. a whole lifetime to do it.
4. Waller blasting the Android himself.
5. Lex complaining that it is AT LEAST going to take him a few more (three?) weeks, becomes irritated (at this point, I thought Lex would go BESERK. His reaction was very logical, and it seemed more peeved than angry).
6. Lex reveal that he really wanted to be a Super Hero instead.
6. Waller reveals that he freed the Justice 7.
7. Lex reveals that he is actually Braniac.

The question is, I think I remember Braniac saying that he didn't want to reveal himself in this "android", so is he pretending to be Lex? Since when did he did? Because it would make no sense if he did it since Amazo's return. And where was Braniac? What happened to Luthor? Are there anymore twists?

On Galatea vs. Supergirl: The point is, Galatea was professionally created to kill. Supergirl was trained to fight to protect others. That would give a slight edge to Galatea. However, I think the bigger issue is, Galatea was BEEFED in power; although probably not as strong as Superman, and possibly Wonder Woman and the Martian Manhunter, she was beefed up well enough to have a close fight last time. I think they MIGHT have beefed her up even more.

I think the fight would have been longer, but they had time constraints. The ending of the fight was a bit of a cop out; we never get to see if she is REALLY dead (though she looks like it), and the fact of Supergirl using the electric cord AND not DODGING IT.

On Lex really being Braniac: I think that, in end, one of Lex's defining features is that he really, really hates Superman, and would be willing to get out of his way to get in way of it, even it means costing him a little. However, there's only three other people who I think of that falls in the same category: Brainiac, Doomsday, and Darkseid.
Darkseid's is either dead or busy working on the Anti-Life Equation. Doomsday is in the Phantom Zone, and has a lack of subtley, so he couldn't pull this off. So that leaves... Braniac and Luthor. What I'm surprised is, is that Luthor wants to become a Super Hero himself. That would make sense, but if he did, why didn't he try it when he YEARS ago, when he had money to invest in the technology? That was a question he even asked to HIMSELF.

[DLM]

As for the original AMAZO... all I can remember is that he retreated "a few light years away" when he was losing to the mindless Solomon Grundy. Maybe he's taking a nap in a quasar or something? :pI have this ongoing theory that his whole association with Fate and Co. and his one excursion into "super-hero do-gooding" in Wake the Dead was just one step in his quest to find his purpose. After zipping off into space he got distracted by an extra-dimensional game of Ultra-Cricket and left the known universe..... thus why we haven't seen him since.

[Spectre]

Amazo's from the US, man. He plays Ultra-Baseball.

[jackofficer]

I have this ongoing theory that his whole association with Fate and Co. and his one excursion into "super-hero do-gooding" in Wake the Dead was just one step in his quest to find his purpose. After zipping off into space he got distracted by an extra-dimensional game of Ultra-Cricket and left the known universe..... thus why we haven't seen him since.
Actually, the problem is, Amazo is TOO good. In techinicality, he beat EVERYONE in the Justice League. I think no matter how bad the cop out is, it's better than just not use him.

[SirLemming]

I actually thought Superman's plan was pretty bizarre. I mean, turn yourself in until you can be proven innocent? What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

And, not only does the League turn itself in for a crime they KNOW they didn't commit, they turn themselves in for a crime that they weren't even charged with. The League wasn't even asked to come in for questioning.

And why would the League jump at the chance to turn themselves in to a government that's allied with a group that fired a nuclear weapon at them and stole and used their DNA without their permission. Are we to assume that the best place to fight a dangerous shadow ops group is in the prison of the government they work for.

At least the creative team gave us a scene where Batman tells the Big 6 how stupid the whole plan was. Of course it was irrational and unjust, but it's a matter of humility. They're giving up their own pride, rights, and sense of rationale for the sake of making peace with irrational people. Not that I blame them, of course; they've been scared into reacting irrationally.

[Revelator]

Cower in the corner and wait to be turned into dino kibble?:shrug: Now that would have been dopey.
Which is why the scene, like Steel's speech, should have been cut, since it doesn't work any way one plays it.

[Wounded_Dragon]

I think the worker fight scene is needed, though it's good that it cut away right quick, as it would've been a slaughter. We had the government (of normals) acting mistrustful and while Waller eventually busts the big guys out, the only sign of normals trusting the JL in this episode were the workers.

As for Supergirl's shirt, remember the DCAU is a place where even normal people like Lois Lane can buy "super" skirts that look comfortable (not tight) and won't fly up, no matter how much wind. ;)

[Spectre]

As for Supergirl's shirt, remember the DCAU is a place where even normal people like Lois Lane can buy "super" skirts that look comfortable (not tight) and won't fly up, no matter how much wind. ;)

Actually, there was an episode of STAS where Clark's high speed departure blew Lois's skirt up. We didn't see anything because she pressed her hands over the front; the incident did, however, elicit Ms. Lane's comment, "I need to start wearing pants."

[Wizard]

I think the more important question is... what happened or has happened to Luthor?
Wait for it.


Any twist soon?
Again, wait for it.


That would be insane, because they already:

1. The Justice 7 decide to turn themselves in, chances of Justice Lords lessened.
ITA. The Lords would never have done that. But the Lords were just like the Leaguers at one point, weren't they?


2. Amanda Waller finding out that Lex cheated Cadmus. AND Waller actually believed Batman. Waller actually believed they fired it.
Waller's a lot of things, but stupid is most definitely not one of them. She had every reason to believe that the Leaguers were going Lord, but she also knows what Lex is. She may have turned a blind eye to him, but once she had a wake up call she decided not to take the chance.


3. Lex was building a Amazo-like android, to gain super powers, in a couple of weeks, yet it took Dr Ive. a whole lifetime to do it.
Lex was working off the blueprints of the finished model. Ivo must have had countless failures in his career before he finally got it right.


4. Waller blasting the Android himself.
Um, you do mean herself, right?


5. Lex complaining that it is AT LEAST going to take him a few more (three?) weeks, becomes irritated (at this point, I thought Lex would go BESERK. His reaction was very logical, and it seemed more peeved than angry).
Anger management. Works wonders!


6. Waller reveals that he freed the Justice 7.
So the 'himself' bit wasn't a typo. Okay.


7. Lex reveals that he is actually Braniac.

The question is, I think I remember Braniac saying that he didn't want to reveal himself in this "android", so is he pretending to be Lex? Since when did he did? Because it would make no sense if he did it since Amazo's return. And where was Braniac? What happened to Luthor? Are there anymore twists?
Wait for it.


On Galatea vs. Supergirl: The point is, Galatea was professionally created to kill. Supergirl was trained to fight to protect others. That would give a slight edge to Galatea. However, I think the bigger issue is, Galatea was BEEFED in power; although probably not as strong as Superman, and possibly Wonder Woman and the Martian Manhunter, she was beefed up well enough to have a close fight last time. I think they MIGHT have beefed her up even more.

I think the fight would have been longer, but they had time constraints. The ending of the fight was a bit of a cop out; we never get to see if she is REALLY dead (though she looks like it), and the fact of Supergirl using the electric cord AND not DODGING IT.
Galatea's survived as bad (or worse). Unless they provide confirmation, I myself consider her alive.

[Wounded_Dragon]

Actually, there was an episode of STAS where Clark's high speed departure blew Lois's skirt up. We didn't see anything because she pressed her hands over the front; the incident did, however, elicit Ms. Lane's comment, "I need to start wearing pants."
:anime: I don't remember that one. I guess the joke was inevitable though, considering all the times she's fallen from buildings and the skirt stayed down.

[jackofficer]

Good points. Oh on the 'Himself' and 'He' thing, I'm just too excited. Sorry. But seriously, you'd think would be more... mistrustful of Luthor, since Luthor had a history of being manipulative. Well, I guess she made a mistake.

But my point is, there's so many twists in this thing, I found it exciting. I hope the next one explains Brainthor.

And knowing that even though the nuclear reactor electricity SHOULD have killed her, I don't doubt because there isn't any confirmation, she is somehow alive.

[Spectre]

Galatea's survived as bad (or worse). Unless they provide confirmation, I myself consider her alive.

There's a difference between broken bones, even a lot of them, and a shock to the cardiovascular and nervous systems. From the looks of things, most of the water in her skin, at least, was fried away, and she may have either suffered brain damage or gone into cardiac arrest. I'm not that well-versed with how electricity affects the body, but I do know it's more subversive than the blunt trauma Galatea received in "Fearful Symmetry".

[DLM]

Galatea's survived as bad (or worse). Unless they provide confirmation, I myself consider her alive.Whatever the arguments about the relative power levels of male and female Kryptonians and/or Argosians are, from a storytelling point of view it would be a mistake to have Galatea be dead at this point. She is too interesting a character and the whole dynamic with her, Kara, Clark and Hamilton is too juicy to kill her off at this point, IMNSHO.

[Calamity^]

hey. all those people in new mexico survived a plasma beam from space. nuclear-powered-electricity? psssh...

question whacked a ultiman...with a bedpan...

Best. Weapon. EVER!!!!

[Kieralinn]

I let it go at the end of "Ultimatum". Yay for apathy! :anime:

While we're on the subject of deaths, we're all in agreement that Galatea is dead, aren't we?

Yep. She's toast.

[90'sCartoonMan]

Okay, I see a lot of love for Red Tornado standing his ground against 3 Wind Dragons, but what about S.T.R.I.P.E?

Pat Dugan PWNED! We got to see him out of the armor, and then he hopped in it! Dude, that was awesome! And when the armor got flooded, he was saved by his stepdaughter.

It was also nice to see Fire, Ice, Hourman, and Creeper in action. Of course, Black Canary rocked as did Question and Captain Atom. Steel's speech was great. When I saw Atom on the ground, at the same time Supergirl did, I said "Ray!" Where was Green Arrow?

Batman was great, I liked how he handled Eiling. Everyone except Shayera talked, which was good. I liked John's comments. Aside from Superman, he'd know the most about having immense power and being feared because of it while still having a job to do.

I'll reserve my comments on Brainthor. In "Question Authority", I just thought Luthor was injecting himself with nanos to become more like AMAZO, but...well, I'm eager to see where this goes.

[Wizard]

Good points. Oh on the 'Himself' and 'He' thing, I'm just too excited. Sorry. But seriously, you'd think would be more... mistrustful of Luthor, since Luthor had a history of being manipulative. Well, I guess she made a mistake.
Okay. I thought you were being sarcastic. Yeah, Waller probably should have been more mistrustful of Luthor, but consider the situation: when the Leaguers went Lord, who was at the top of the hit list? Waller made sure that he knew, probably as a way of keeping him in line. "Stick with us and you won't get fried."


But my point is, there's so many twists in this thing, I found it exciting. I hope the next one explains Brainthor.
Brainthor (or Lexiac, as I call him) will most definitely be explained. The creative team wouldn't pull that on us without explaining it. I can't say anything more, for risk of accidental spoilage.


And knowing that even though the nuclear reactor electricity SHOULD have killed her, I don't doubt because there isn't any confirmation, she is somehow alive.
So you think she's alive, right? I agree with DLM. It would be a mistake to kill her at this point.

Spectre, I have to agree with you about electricity, but I don't think that TPTB would have let a hero get that brutal onscreen. If she died, I don't think we would have seen her afterwards.

[PeterFries]

Man, this episode was even more intense in widescreen. I wish I could shake the hands of everyone involved and thank them for this entire season. This is the animated DC series I've waited for all my life.


Since when is the Creeper part of the Justice League? Look carefully at the screen capture Bird Boy posts at the beginning of each of these talkback threads, from the JLU credits -- that's Creeper there in the lineup, four to the right of Superman, every week.


I actually thought Superman's plan was pretty bizarre. I mean, turn yourself in until you can be proven innocent? What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

And, not only does the League turn itself in for a crime they KNOW they didn't commit, they turn themselves in for a crime that they weren't even charged with.
I thought that was a great tie-in to the first episode of Justice League (after the pilot), when John Stewart willingly gave himself up for trial in order to demonstrate that the super cops have to be answerable for any possible offense. He was willing to lay down his life for that principle, to trust the judgement of the people he was supposed to protect.


Are there anymore twists?

Well, in the finale, no way am I actually gonna give away anything.;)

[Human Shield]

Have you guys even seen a corpse in the DCAU (that wasn't smiling [non-villian kill]), I can't think of any? Galatea is certainly alive, maybe in a coma. It is universal law that the heros don't directly kill anyone.


quite poweful?! what the hell try super powerful beings1 so with your logic superman could die if someone shot him with "alot" more bullets from a gun?:sad:
Force = Mass X Acceleration. So if you shoot him with the mass of a planet or tow of bullets, Superman would probably die.

[Spectre]

So you think she's alive, right? I agree with DLM. It would be a mistake to kill her at this point.

Spectre, I have to agree with you about electricity, but I don't think that TPTB would have let a hero get that brutal onscreen. If she died, I don't think we would have seen her afterwards.

But if she is alive... damn, she's the deadest-looking alive person I've seen in a while. She's got to be in a coma at the very least.

I suppose we see Galatea's 'potential' in different ways. I personally see Karen coming to terms with the fact that she's killed someone as more interesting than any interaction between the two, who had pretty much come to an understanding by that point anyway. Not to mention that her death would imply Hamilton figuring out how much Galatea really meant to him, and whether his whole involvement in Cadmus was deeply wrong.

[jackofficer]

Okay. I thought you were being sarcastic. Yeah, Waller probably should have been more mistrustful of Luthor, but consider the situation: when the Leaguers went Lord, who was at the top of the hit list? Waller made sure that he knew, probably as a way of keeping him in line. "Stick with us and you won't get fried."


Brainthor (or Lexiac, as I call him) will most definitely be explained. The creative team wouldn't pull that on us without explaining it. I can't say anything more, for risk of accidental spoilage.


So you think she's alive, right? I agree with DLM. It would be a mistake to kill her at this point.

Spectre, I have to agree with you about electricity, but I don't think that TPTB would have let a hero get that brutal onscreen. If she died, I don't think we would have seen her afterwards. On Luthor: That would make sense, but this is Luthor we are talking about. I doubt Luthor is will leave HIS life in someone else's hand, whether they had the same goal or not. Luthor would do ANYTHING to be independent and finding his OWN way of protecting himself, rather than relying on Waller. He could have, but decided to manipulate her trust in the fact she was protecting him in certain areas. Fortunately, Batman gave her a wake up call, that Lex isn't willing to let things be; he likes to matters in to his own hands.

On Brainthor: That's one of the most wicked plot twists I have ever seen.

On Galatea: I think she's alive. It's arguable, but we don't really see her die. You know, of those old school comic book plot conventions: if you don't see them DIE, then it is possible they are alive, no matter how bad the situation they are in that could have likely killed them.

[DLM]

I personally see Karen coming to terms with the fact that she's killed someone as more interesting than any interaction between the two, who had pretty much come to an understanding by that point anyway. Not to mention that her death would imply Hamilton figuring out how much Galatea really meant to him, and whether his whole involvement in Cadmus was deeply wrong.That WOULD be an interesting way to go with it, but I disagree that Kara an Galatea had come to any kind of resolution prior to this episode, and I don't think there was any resolution in this episode either. I think there is alot of dramatic tension still hangin out there between the two. Id rather see a redemption episode for Galatea... aka Power Girl and then some kind of big resolution between all the kryptonian/argosians and Hamilton.

I think the one thing we CAN all agree on is that there is alot of potential for future Supergirl/Hamilton/Galatea story goodness.

[jackofficer]

That WOULD be an interesting way to go with it, but I disagree that Kara an Galatea had come to any kind of resolution prior to this episode, and I don't think there was any resolution in this episode either. I think there is alot of dramatic tension still hangin out there between the two. Id rather see a redemption episode for Galatea... aka Power Girl and then some kind of big resolution between all the kryptonian/argosians and Hamilton.

I think the one thing we CAN all agree on is that there is alot of potential for future Supergirl/Hamilton/Galatea story goodness.
I concur.

[Doomsday]

Great fight scenes and surpises all over but not the best of the season. I think its the weaker of the 4 and when I first saw it I got worried about how good the next episode would be but after seeing the next episode I saw theres nothing to be worried about. It ended up being the best episode this season until the last episode this season aired. So 4 stars, almost good enough to be 4.5 and would if they didn't say no one died from the laser beam after effect destorying the town.

[Mister Intensity]

That's a pretty lame attitude to have.

I echo what I said weeks ago. I don't know what it is, but I have no complaints with the way this season is ending. It's like I can suddenly forgive all the little flaws just because it's so damn good. Even if Braniac gets resurrected more often than your average Dragon Ball Z character, I'm just on the edge of my seat to see what's coming next. And I just realized THAT's how Lex's kryptonite-induced cancer problem was probably resolved, as well as the super-strength and prime physique. Yikes. How the hell...?

And oh, those fight scenes. So many highlights.

-- Red Tornado returning to beat three Wind Dragons in a contest of powers.

-- The general brawling scenes and how well they meshed together. Atom Smasher brought down a Longshadow and then one of the flyers (who whizzes by being chased in an earlier scene) traps three Juices underneath the collapsing body, like something out of Star Wars with X-Wings and TIE Fighters.

-- Black Canary opening up. Hip-tossing Wind Dragon, mule-kicking Downpour in the same motion, then letting the scream loose on all of them later on. It's strange that Superman and Aquaman both had trouble against the Ultimen, and there she was just annihilating them.

-- Galatea's beatdown on Steel and subsequent thrashing of Supergirl. For such one-sided fights, they was pretty taut. I thought she killed Steel when she brought down that huge debris slab on him; with half of his body exposed, he should by all means and rights have been killed instantly. I also commend the animators for actually beefing up Galatea this time; her physical superiority over Supergirl was easier to believe because of it.

-- That hilarious shot of Wildcat and Red Tornado pausing as the power comes back on- over a PILE of beaten Longshadows.

My hat goes off to the animation and storyboarding. Awesome through and through.
I didn't say that I didn't like the episode, only that it was padding. Especially, compared to "Question Authority" and "Flashpoint." Lots of fights but really, this episode could have took five minutes to advance towards the endgame vs. Cadmus. I wrote pretty much the same thing about "The End, Part II." Still there were some nice bits it could have been edited down.

Mister Intensity

[pidget bill]

Minor Continuity slip: Someone on Gamefaqs noticed this. Last episode we saw Booster Gold on a javelin with Flash and Arrow to Earth and help out the public, yet in this episode he's on the tower near the end after the fight when the lights shut on/off. :p heh heh... good eye.

[Jiggle-Bot]

Minor Continuity slip: Someone on Gamefaqs noticed this. Last episode we saw Booster Gold on a javelin with Flash and Arrow to Earth and help out the public, yet in this episode he's on the tower near the end after the fight when the lights shut on/off. :p heh heh... good eye.What happened between "Flashpoint" and "Panic in the Sky"...

[seeing the amount of manual labor involved in the rescue mission]
Booster Gold: Umm I think the Watchtower needs refills for its... espresso machine... yeah. Com'on Skeets! there's no time to lose! To Walmart and then to the only remaining Javalin!

[Funkatron]

I don't think anyone noticed this, but I like the turning point that seperated Justice League Supes and Justice Lords Supes:

LAst time we saw Superman, he was pretty pissed. He really wanted to go down there and take Cadmus out for what they did to the League and Karen.

Then his wish comes true and the Fusion weapon fired.

Then we see him after his recovery in Panic in the Sky". He is a lot more sober now. Though he didn't pull the trigger, he wanted something like this to happen and realised that he didn't like the results: the General populace doesn't trust the League anymore and they almost killed a lot of people. Thats why I love the whole "What have we done" line. He feels guilty cause he wanted Cadmus taken out and it almost happened.

It sometimes takes a big tragidy to put you back in perspective. Loved how they turned themselves in. Superman is definately showing he doesn't want to be anything like Lorder Superman.

[bobspoland]

fab epsiode. loved every moment. gr8 fights!
5 out 5

[maczero]

I thought it was a bit dopey. They wisely cut away just as the puny humans charged the T-Rex, since the next few seconds would have consisted of the dino snacking on watchtower staff.
"We're faced with a 40 foot Tyranosaurus Rex! What shall we do?"
"Let's go 'Yaaaaah!' and run at it like idiots!"
"Sounds like a plan! Yaaaah!"
If the people in Jurassic Park handled dinos like the watchtower guys, the movie would have been 35 minutes long.
Bwahahaha!!!

I was thinking the same thing during that scene!

[Lord Sidious]

WTF BRAINIAC!!!!!



That took so much out of Luthor's criminal genius!!!!




Lex was so deceptive and manipulative in "Clash" but no it's not him , it's Brainiac.

Lex was superb in "The Return" when talking to AMAZO but NO!! That was Brainiac also.

Lex was charming and manipulative in "Tabula Rasa", but NO!! That was Brainiac!!!


That Brainiac "twist" ruined Lex's character!!!!






And where the hell are the other powerful JLU members???:

Aquaman
Dr. Fate
Orion
Entrigan



And who saved Batman when he fell from Lex Corp??



Was that an animation error??



for it shows the hand and forearm and it's not Supes coz it did not have a blue sleeve and it's not WW for it was a man's hands and it does not have her trademark bracelets.



Man I hope the next episode would settle how long Brainiac was living in Lex's body.

[Hero Supreme]

WTF BRAINIAC!!!!!

That took so much out of Luthor's criminal genius!!!!
its not over yet...



Lex was so deceptive and manipulative in "Clash" but no it's not him , it's Brainiac.
are you sure?



Lex was superb in "The Return" when talking to AMAZO but NO!! That was Brainiac also.
again, are you sure?



Lex was charming and manipulative in "Tabula Rasa", but NO!! That was Brainiac!!!
i think you get the idea



That Brainiac "twist" ruined Lex's character!!!!
well, if you say so, but its straight out of the comics.




And where the hell are the other powerful JLU members???:

Aquaman
Dr. Fate
Orion
Entrigan

maybe they were dispatched to deal with a simultaneous world threatening event :)



And who saved Batman when he fell from Lex Corp??


Was that an animation error??

for it shows the hand and forearm and it's not Supes coz it did not have a blue sleeve and it's not WW for it was a man's hands and it does not have her trademark bracelets. i think it was the "man hands" hawkgirl. she should get her own action figure.



Man I hope the next episode would settle how long Brainiac was living in Lex's body. it will

[Killtacular]

I watched the whole finale already (because I'm going to be in San Diego) and... well. I thought it was fantastic until Brainiac. I mean he's a great villain.. it's just.. I don't.

mf.

I don't really...


It's like a twist but an underwhelming one. From where the story was building, the end of this episode pretty much unravels a lot of it. The way they're just like "We know you're planning to put yourself in an android." Uhh we did? Why couldn't this have just been revealed in the same way the rest of the plot devices have been uncovered in this season? They went from an even consistent pace, to trying to rush the plot out the door, so when Brianiac takes over it's like... well.... huh. That's... okay.

I mean I can't give the episode a bad grade, I just can't call it a great episode because I've felt Braniac teaming up was kind of hokey in Twilight and it feels kind of hokey here. However the stuff with Powergirl and Supergirl was really good.

It also gets a lot better next week, which concludes this saga ("Epilogue" is entirely irrelevent to this story). It's the first episode of the past 78 episodes of Justice League to make The Flash cool. There were moments in the past but Flash vs. Brainiac-Lex is a sight to see.

Edited By Stu. Please Use Spoilers Bracks for future episode details!

[mal]

Of course it was irrational and unjust, but it's a matter of humility. They're giving up their own pride, rights, and sense of rationale for the sake of making peace with irrational people. Not that I blame them, of course; they've been scared into reacting irrationally.
I don't know, I could easily blame them given all the torture and attempted murder and genocide Cadmus committed because the DCAU U.S. government was 'scared'.

At this point the creative team has made Cadmus so irredeemably evil that the League won't look like true heroes unless they blow the whistle on them when all is said and done.


I thought that was a great tie-in to the first episode of Justice League (after the pilot), when John Stewart willingly gave himself up for trial in order to demonstrate that the super cops have to be answerable for any possible offense. He was willing to lay down his life for that principle, to trust the judgement of the people he was supposed to protect.
John Stewart had actually been charged with a crime. The Big 6 just decided on their own to cheerfully march off to detention while a crazed Black Ops group is still out there threatening lives. In this episode (and throughout the arc really) the burden falls on the League (the accused) to prove it's not a threat. It just seems like an awfully strange stance in a country where it's supposed to work the other way around.

[Temple Fugate]

I don't think anyone noticed this, but I like the turning point that seperated Justice League Supes and Justice Lords Supes:

LAst time we saw Superman, he was pretty pissed. He really wanted to go down there and take Cadmus out for what they did to the League and Karen.

Then his wish comes true and the Fusion weapon fired.

Then we see him after his recovery in Panic in the Sky". He is a lot more sober now. Though he didn't pull the trigger, he wanted something like this to happen and realised that he didn't like the results: the General populace doesn't trust the League anymore and they almost killed a lot of people. Thats why I love the whole "What have we done" line. He feels guilty cause he wanted Cadmus taken out and it almost happened.

It sometimes takes a big tragidy to put you back in perspective. Loved how they turned themselves in. Superman is definately showing he doesn't want to be anything like Lorder Superman.That's a very good point. The BFG is the turning point of this entire Cadmus conspiracy, because it sets the good guys back on the confirmed good guy path, and simultaneously leads Cadmus down the confirmed bad guy path. The metahumans realize their position and treat it carefully, but the humans let their paranoia run wild and set off their Big Red Buttons. And your "Supes realized he's guilty" angle is indeed taken further at the end of the next episode.


It's like a twist but an underwhelming one. From where the story was building, the end of this episode pretty much unravels a lot of it. The way they're just like "We know you're planning to put yourself in an android." Uhh we did? Why couldn't this have just been revealed in the same way the rest of the plot devices have been uncovered in this season? They went from an even consistent pace, to trying to rush the plot out the door, so when Brianiac takes over it's like... well.... huh. That's... okay.That is exactly my problem with the last two minutes of the episode. The Brainthor twist can be believable and, as mr jinx mentioned, was inspired by the many pre-and-during-Crisis Luthor/Braniac team-ups. What made it difficult to accept was the multitude of things that jumped out and surprised us right before this was revealed, starting with Lex building AMAZOLEX and everything following it. A gentler lead-in--to make us think we already know everything and THEN dish out the Brainthor business--would have worked better IMO.


I think there is alot of dramatic tension still hangin out there between the two. Id rather see a redemption episode for Galatea... aka Power Girl and then some kind of big resolution between all the kryptonian/argosians and Hamilton.Galatea MAY be dead. As much as I'd like her to be, Supergirl isn't a killer. For those of you who think Galatea, with her training and gene-therapy, should have won, I present the argument that the Genuine Article is always a match for its copy. Sorry to disappoint, DLM but, there's no such resolution in the next two episodes. Which is one of the many things I will be talking about in my Dropped Plot Points review for "Divided We Fall" next week. :cool:

And speaking of "are they dead?" Longshadow might be. His best chance to do anything or be of any importance in this arc was in this episode, and he wasn't there. How could I tell it wasn't him fighting against the other fifteen dozen Longshadows? Because for one, they all had white eyes, and two, it would be an injustice to the character to SHOW him fighting, but not give us any characterization. How would he FEEL fighting copies of his friends, or even copies of himself? Does he feel partly responsible for the Ultimen attack? Again, I will talk about this next week.

[maxnugget]

And speaking of "are they dead?" Longshadow might be. His best chance to do anything or be of any importance in this arc was in this episode, and he wasn't there. How could I tell it wasn't him fighting against the other fifteen dozen Longshadows? Because for one, they all had white eyes, and two, it would be an injustice to the character to SHOW him fighting, but not give us any characterization. How would he FEEL fighting copies of his friends, or even copies of himself? Does he feel partly responsible for the Ultimen attack? Again, I will talk about this next week.
In fairness to the creators, if they had shown Longshadow (the one from "Ultimatum"), it would have been, at best, interesting, but tangential, an irrelevant distraction that does nothing for the story, and, at worst, it would have been all that plus boring in general.

SCENARIO A: Longshadow fights alongside the JLU. Eh, who cares? How does he feel about the clones and the government fighting against the JLU? Who cares? Besides, didn't we already see this play out at the end of Ultimatum, when he sides with the JL to fight the going-crazy Ultimen?

SCENARIO B: Longshadow fights with the rest of the Ultimen under mind-control orders from Galatea. Again, boring. Wouldn't really have added anything to the episode.

And just having Longshadow show up for the sake of continuity/cameo would have been that terrible thing we all call "fan service."

[Sinsio]

..this was a filer episode. Not as good as the two previous shows IMHO.
Maybe you need to learn what the word "filler" means before you post, Luke Cage. This episode progressed the plot quite a bit.

[Mister Intensity]

Maybe you need to learn what the word "filler" means before you post, Luke Cage. This episode progressed the plot quite a bit.
Honestly, I feel the plot progression of this episode could have been boiled down to five minutes. This episode just didn't have the "WOW," factor of the first two episodes. I just felt it was padded with the fights and some of the stuff, particularly the Supergirl/Galatea stuff would have been better served in its own separate episode. This just seemed to be an example of jamming everything cool into thirty minutes and it just fell flat in comparison to the opening two episodes.

Mister Intensity

[Spectre]

Galatea MAY be dead. As much as I'd like her to be, Supergirl isn't a killer. For those of you who think Galatea, with her training and gene-therapy, should have won, I present the argument that the Genuine Article is always a match for its copy.

I certainly don't advocate that Karen killed her because she wanted to, though that could be an interesting view of it. I simply think Supergirl consciously used a lethal mode of attack because it was the only way she could think of to stop Galatea. If Galatea had beaten them, she'd have overloaded the Watchtower's reactor and destroyed everyone on board, including herself. It was an extreme situation.

[RAINMAN]

If luthor being brainiac is not the WOW factor of this ep`s then I don`t know what is. Nobody did not saw that coming. Still a ep don`t need a wow factor to be good. And filler are ep`s that has nothing to do whit the overall plot of the series or current season. This was not a filler by any means. I don`t think PG is dead, she was to juiced up to died so easly. I`m also glad nobody didn`t died in the city the WT cannon fire on. You don`t need death to make a ep`s drak or good.


I guess bats did not agree whit the rest casue he might have thougth they were give up. And bats don`t do give up. I also love it when he punch eiling out. I hated that jerk sense he try to killed superman. Flash as always was great whit his jokes. Is this thing on? The classic joker xmas joke. I love it.:evil:

[Knight]

I certainly don't advocate that Karen killed her because she wanted to, though that could be an interesting view of it. I simply think Supergirl consciously used a lethal mode of attack because it was the only way she could think of to stop Galatea. If Galatea had beaten them, she'd have overloaded the Watchtower's reactor and destroyed everyone on board, including herself. It was an extreme situation.
Define lethal mode of attack for beings who are superstrong and invulnerable like Galatea? Im sure Supergirl was hoping the charge would stun her but she was almost certainly not going for a kill shot. Thats not what heroes like her do.

[Arrakhat]

First I would like to know why my account logs itself out after a few minutes of inactivity (I answered the phone). Is it just me? I wrote a post for quite some time only to see it just disappear.

In a condensed version, My four nitpicks are:

1. No deaths from the Leagues super nuclear cannon is a cop out.
2. Brainiac teaming up with Lex is getting old. I love Brainiac, but he seems... Copped out?:shrug:
3. Waller doesn't understand that she's not a western cowboy.
Waller- "You ain't got time, baldie." (not exact quote)
Lex- "Then are you gonna draw, sheriff?" (not exact quote)
Waller- "I'm the fastest in the West." (not exact quote) *Tries to shoot Lex but lex throws her across the room*
Waller- "Curse you El Diablo!" (not even close to an exact quote)
4. Lexiac's plan is a copy of Brainiac's in the Static Shock crossover, "A League of Their Own."

Still, ****1/2

[Ian]

I'm with the naysayers here (shocker, I know). The episode was pretty and all, but the big fight? Largely pointless; the time would have been better spent seeing the world's reaction to the Founding members' arrest (which was a stupid thing to do, btw, especially based on what we don't know of the League hierarchy) or Cadmus' investigation of Luthor (I still find it unbelievable that they were duped by him, btw). As for the final twist...I'm not optimistic. Sure, the League vs. Brainiac might make for a good fight, but I don't see how it's relevant to the issues raised by the arc.

But still, it was a fun episode. I loved the music used on the recap. And the Flash was priceless.

[Alex Weitzman]

Okay, getting to this a lot earlier since I'll be leaving for the Con in the next couple of days...

First and foremost with Panic in the Sky, the cliffhanger revelation of the Thing from Another Krypton will be addressed next week in the review of Divided We Fall. As noted by Mr. Dwayne McDuffie in his recent interview, there is no sense to commenting on things yet not seen, and since all that is given here is the revelation of what, but not why and how, I will save that for next week. (I have indeed seen all the episodes already, so yes, some of this is coyness.) I will say this, though: they hid it well. The responses of "WTF!!!! BRAINIAC?!?!?!?" all over should confirm that for TimmCo. Lots of shows like to jerk you around, but only a rare few are any good at it.

Panic in the Sky has been somewhat criticized for being less important to the overall arc than previous episodes. That it uses fights for a filler. My agreement or disagreement with that sentiment aside, these comments seem to brush over a very important fact: these are some incredible fights. So often do I spend my time delving into psychological and intellectual constructs from the structures of the episodes of JLU that it can become easy to forget that this is a superhero action show, and its job is to deliver on that realm just as much (if not more) than the psychology. In particular, this episode represents a huge victory for Dan Riba and his boarding crew; more often than not, it seems that Dos Santos gets all the credit for boarding action. The sequences of the League fighting off the Ulti-army and of Steel and Supergirl facing off Galatea are absolutely remarkable. They feature a rat-a-tat-tat pace that few in the DCAU can match, coupled with powerful single images (Ice's surprise ice wall in saving Steel, Red Tornado against three Wind Dragons, and so on) that give the fights the painful edge they need. And, of course, in the Galatea fight, the best compliment I can give is this: that all looked like it hurt.

To me, Flashpoint came closer to a "filler" episode; not because nothing happened (because obviously it did), but because it had trouble standing alone from a thematic position. Panic in the Sky is better because it has one theme to get at, and it follows it through to finale. That theme is the dissolution of the illusion of Cadmus. The Cold War I referred to last time becomes a blazing hot one (I wonder who will notice where I stole that line from?), but only on the volition of one side. So, yes, this is where Cadmus crosses the line, and if you're so decadent, becomes the "badguys". Is the ambiguity robbed? That sort of depends on how ambiguous you thought it was in the first place. As it has been seen time and again in JLU, the paranoiac suspicions of the League give way to siding with them when you really think about it. The League was formed for something - in this case, hope and peace. Cadmus was formed against something - in this case, the League. The League was not formed against criminals, nor was Cadmus formed for protection, because the League endeavored to assist people outside of crime-based problems and Cadmus refused to protect people from anything beyond the League. Worse, Cadmus mucks around in dirty dealings and pretends it's okay because gosh darn that Justice League, they're worse than us!

Indeed, the entirety of Cadmus seems to be represented by Galatea herself, and her struggle is a perfect parallel for what Cadmus has gone through. She is a criminal and a villain; in Fearful Symmetry, she was a willing and eager assassin for Cadmus, eliminating people whose only crime was knowing too much. (I think people tend to forget that Cadmus had this black mark on their record from the very beginning, so that it'd be easier to pretend that the League would be the side that would go rogue.) Despite this blatant lawlessness, Galatea smugly fashions herself a hero, and does so to pretend that she herself is a real person in her own right. However, when she finally gets into the heat of things in the Watchtower, she is told by her superiors to pull out; she refuses, because now she's just engaging in a personal duel. In their own way, Cadmus follows this exact same line: criminality tempered with self-satisfaction about being "the true good", all to hide the fact that they're just a villainous clone of the Justice League itself. And when push came to shove, they're the ones who started the real violence, all in willing suspension of proper doubts. Just like Galatea maintaining her attack at the Watchtower, Amanda Waller did not wait for actual orders when she sent Galatea and the Ulti-army forth, despite knowing full well that Lex Luthor was a remorseless evil in her midst. Why? Because she had something to prove. What that is....well, you'll have to wait a couple of weeks for that one.

[Dens Maris]

I didn't say that I didn't like the episode, only that it was padding. Especially, compared to "Question Authority" and "Flashpoint." Lots of fights but really, this episode could have took five minutes to advance towards the endgame vs. Cadmus. I wrote pretty much the same thing about "The End, Part II." Still there were some nice bits it could have been edited down.
It's understandable if you're mostly interested in advancing the plot. Many people here are, from my understanding. But what I don't get about this crowd is that you really don't take the genre and the requisites of the show into consideration. This is a superhero show. You need action. You need fights. Of course you risk wasting time- that's why you need fights that MATTER. And unlike "filler" episodes, which have no bearing whatsoever on the end of the story, this brawl does have meaning. It's Cadmus' first major attack on the League. Of course it needs to be shown. Not just to dazzle the audience, but to show the first (and perhaps not the only) time the Justice League comes under assault by a threat so close to home. To show the absolute depths to which Cadmus sank. Take a look at how many people, myself included, have talked about the battle and how it was cool watching them "take down a Longshadow" or "break apart a Downpour." A Longshadow. A Downpour. Does that not bother anyone else, that we're talking about superhuman clones like they're airfighters or droids? Combined with Supergirl's remarks to Galatea, I think that's one of the biggest things to pay attention to when watching the fight. And yet it's just "filler." Could've been cropped down. Right.

You noticed that this fight scene eats up just over half of the episode, and is interspliced with scenes of Cadmus discovering that they were in error the entire time, and then manages to include some character development with Galatea and Supergirl (even Captain Atom)? Just how can you pass it off as "filler"? Merely because there's a lot of fighting, that makes it filler? That strikes me as a pretty obtuse conclusion. Filler often doesn't bother to include story. This episode did.

I can understand people passing this episode off as a waste because of Luthor/Brainiac. I can see where they're coming from. But dismissing this episode as "padding" is essentially saying it was unnecessary- and I think that's just missing the point.

[Spectre]

Define lethal mode of attack for beings who are superstrong and invulnerable like Galatea? Im sure Supergirl was hoping the charge would stun her but she was almost certainly not going for a kill shot. Thats not what heroes like her do.

Which is why I said that Supergirl didn't want to kill her; in her own view, she had no other option. Galatea certainly wasn't going to relent. At that point, I think she just hated Supergirl and only wanted to hurt her; I'm surprised things didn't get bloody, the show's younger viewers not withstanding. Karen couldn't match her physically; every time she tried, she got the snot beaten out of her. But she had to win, because otherwise:


Steel was dead
The Watchtower was doomed
The Justice League would cease to exist


So she did what she had to do. It wasn't pleasant, but she did it.

There is, of course, the possibility that the psychic link between them was still in effect, and Karen caught some of Galatea's bloodlust. I think the lethal blow was more out of painful necessity than anything else.

[Anarky]

all that in 22 minutes?!?! wow!

i don't have time to scan thru 8 pages of posts so here i go:

Flash quoting "Jingle Bells, Batman Smells" was hilarious
Batman reaction to Clark's plan...even more hilarious. Bats came this close going :moon: on 'em

Batman clocking the General
Steel caught a wicked BEAT DOWN
Is it Game Over for Galatea?

and the ending!:eek:
a culmination of many things:
"Stolen Memories"- Brainiac imprinting himself in LexCorp's network
"Ghost in the Machine"- Lex retaining all Brainiac hardware
"Knighttime"- Brainiac using nanites to control Bruce Wayne
"Tabula Rasa"- Lex witnesses the power of Ivo's android
"The Return"- Lex "copies" AMAZO's blueprints
"Dark Heart"- another kind of nano-tech threatened the Earth

It appears in addition to Brainiacs' vast knowledge and Lex's resources, this Brainiac-Lex hybrid used Ivo's blueprints and nano-tech from Cadmus (Dark Heart) to create the ultimate host body: one that would make him the Ultimate Force in the DCAU.

I wonder if the original AMAZO will return to Earth in time to intervene. He's been AWOL since "Wake the Dead"

if there wasn't a 5th season ahead, this may have been a great end-all for the modern DCAU.

[adoptedBatpuppy]

This episode was even better then the last one! :rolleyes: The Justice League took me by surprize with their desidion to turn themselves in. I thought they were going to dismiss the rest of the non-founding members. :sad: It was just like Batman not to turn himself in. This Cadmus story line turns out to be a pretty interesting one. Is Amanda really that bad? She seems to be just working for the government. When did Braniac had a chance to swith bodies with Luthor? :eek: Does it mean that Lex is dead? Unlikely, Braniac probably needs his expertise to survive, and I'm sure we will see him again. It was nice to see Kara being concerned for her cousin and the rest of the members. :anime: I can't wait until Epilogue!!! :cool:

[Jyose]

I guess some of Flash's team returned to the Watch Tower, because not only was Booster Gold down there, but so was the Man in the giant robot(What is his name, anyway?)

Regardless, I loved this episode, been a while since we got a good ol' fashioned Super Hero, Super Villian,Super Fight, and Creeper was icing on the cake(If they let him in, they'll let in anybody, here's to seeing Darkseid in the league next season :P)

Flash's quoting of the classic jingle bells spoof, and Batman's "This is the single most dumbest plan I've ever heard" were both hilarious

As for the Lexbrain/Lexiac/Luthiac/brainthor(we need a poll for what to call it :P)

I was shocked, because Lex clearly didn't plan for this and didn't know what was happening to his body, the ultimate explanation for his new super powers. We can either go back to him somehow emplanting himself into Lex through the vest created by Ultra-Humanite, or another team-up between the two.

I guess Brainiac wanted Doomsday to happen, since that's his ultimate ambition, learn all there is about the world, then destroy it.

***** + 3 because of the Superfights

Though there's some guys I don't really know

1 - Who is the woman with green energy powers?
2 - The other giant with a black mask
3 - The man in the giant robot
4 - (From last episode) but who is the woman in white who rescued Superman?

[FreedomBlack]

Which is why I said that Supergirl didn't want to kill her; in her own view, she had no other option. Galatea certainly wasn't going to relent. At that point, I think she just hated Supergirl and only wanted to hurt her; I'm surprised things didn't get bloody, the show's younger viewers not withstanding. Karen couldn't match her physically; every time she tried, she got the snot beaten out of her. But she had to win, because otherwise:

Steel was dead
The Watchtower was doomed
The Justice League would cease to exist
So she did what she had to do. It wasn't pleasant, but she did it.

There is, of course, the possibility that the psychic link between them was still in effect, and Karen caught some of Galatea's bloodlust. I think the lethal blow was more out of painful necessity than anything else.I completely agree. Orders or no, Galatea had no qualms about commiting mass-murder by destroying the Watchtower and nothing short of death would've stopped her. Kara had no choice.

But on the same note, I'm not convinced Galatea's dead. We still don't know exactly how much voltage Kara flooded her system with, and anyway, the character has too much potential for her to be brought back now after all this time, only to knock her off permanently.

And speaking of death, I really do hope Long Shadow's still alive. I don't think it was ever established exactly how much time's passed since he came into the League up until now, so for all we know, it could've been just a couple of weeks or so. The poor dude deserves some screen time. At the very least, a decent send-off.



Though there's some guys I don't really know

1 - Who is the woman with green energy powers?
2 - The other giant with a black mask
3 - The man in the giant robot
4 - (From last episode) but who is the woman in white who rescued Superman?
1. Fire
2. I'm guessing you're talking about Atom-Smasher
3. Pat Dugan. His step-daughter is Stars, the blonde in the American flag costume with the staff.
4. Dr. Light

[jackofficer]

Actually, we don't really know even if THAT was Luthor.

[Joker1238]

I think Power girl is still alive. She was twiching, and her eyes were in a daze, I sure when power gets back to the watch tower, the JL would take her to the Med Bay. Being the heros they are.

I mean I though the Riddler was gone for ever in his 2nd showing(Forgot the title of the show, stuck in some computer or brain dead)

Joker had so many death scenes, I lost count, Shark, Plane crash, MOTP ete

And Brainiac has come back so many times, it not even funny.

Powergirl is still alive, UNTIL they say so in the next show, I do pity Power girl though, she got a raw deal out of the hold thing. And Supergirl calling her, Not a real person, your just a weapon. Harsh words, and it gives me pity on Power Girl.

I do hope Longshadow is not dead, I think the guy was cool, were the others were getting answers, and going crazy, and even taking on the JL, Longshadow, saved people from his freinds reckless. And of couse convice them to back down on the JL. I do would like to see him get a honorble send off.

[Mister Intensity]

It's understandable if you're mostly interested in advancing the plot. Many people here are, from my understanding. But what I don't get about this crowd is that you really don't take the genre and the requisites of the show into consideration. This is a superhero show. You need action. You need fights. Of course you risk wasting time- that's why you need fights that MATTER. And unlike "filler" episodes, which have no bearing whatsoever on the end of the story, this brawl does have meaning. It's Cadmus' first major attack on the League. Of course it needs to be shown. Not just to dazzle the audience, but to show the first (and perhaps not the only) time the Justice League comes under assault by a threat so close to home. To show the absolute depths to which Cadmus sank. Take a look at how many people, myself included, have talked about the battle and how it was cool watching them "take down a Longshadow" or "break apart a Downpour." A Longshadow. A Downpour. Does that not bother anyone else, that we're talking about superhuman clones like they're airfighters or droids? Combined with Supergirl's remarks to Galatea, I think that's one of the biggest things to pay attention to when watching the fight. And yet it's just "filler." Could've been cropped down. Right.

You noticed that this fight scene eats up just over half of the episode, and is interspliced with scenes of Cadmus discovering that they were in error the entire time, and then manages to include some character development with Galatea and Supergirl (even Captain Atom)? Just how can you pass it off as "filler"? Merely because there's a lot of fighting, that makes it filler? That strikes me as a pretty obtuse conclusion. Filler often doesn't bother to include story. This episode did.

I can understand people passing this episode off as a waste because of Luthor/Brainiac. I can see where they're coming from. But dismissing this episode as "padding" is essentially saying it was unnecessary- and I think that's just missing the point.
I don't mind fights, in fact I prefer my superhero stories with lots of action. But at the same time, I want some type of impact to the gut and "Question Authority" and "Flashpoint" both fulfilled that while "Panic in the Sky" didn't. While the fights had some cool bits -- I love Red Tornado vs. the Wind Dragons -- overall there seemed to be a lot of stuff that were nice all by themselves but didn't feel right together.

One thing I hate in modern comics (the "Trade Age") is the padding, whether its through a lot of unnecessary dialogue or a lot of big bang fights that really doesn't provide much beyond eye candy (and oftentimes, the eye candy isn't even that interesting). I just felt there was a lot of padding. Maybe it was watching "Panic," along with "The End, Part II," which I felt had the same problem, that really brought this point home. Maybe at this point, I just want the story to move along at a comfortable pace before getting to the climax.

Personally, I hate the word "filler," because it dismisses the episodes that aren't part of the story arc. In many ways, I feel that the "fillers" are more important than the arc episodes because those are the episodes that gives us the opportunity to care about the characters. Maybe it was the relative lack of, or the weakness of, the "fillers" this season that reduced the overall impact of this episode.

Hopefully, the "fillers" will be stronger next season.

Mister Intensity

[Luke Cage]

Maybe you need to learn what the word "filler" means before you post, Luke Cage. This episode progressed the plot quite a bit.Spelling issues aside, I think the plot progressed only in the last 5 minutes of the show with all the last minute twists. I'm not saying the show was bad, just that a lot of the action was used to fill up the time slot.

In Questions Authority, Huntress kicked butt while Question stole important files that advanced the plot. Flashpoint and Clash had great fight scenes while showing that members of the team were siding against the league.

To this point, the whole arc (the dialog, fight scenes, everything) has been leading up to a gigantic rift between the JLU and the people. Losing the public's trust and even the trust of it's own members is the biggest threat to the JLU, not the Ultimen. It just seemed to me that the battle with the Ulitmen, while spectacular, diverted a little off course. We already know that CADMUS doesn't trust the league. We already know that Galetea wants to beat down Supergirl. We already Know that Waller wants to bring down the league. So, I view these things as file...er...filler.

I love to watch a good old fashioned butt whoopin every now and again, but the finish didn't really help resolve the real threat to the team; the perception of the public they are trying to protect.

just my .02 cents

[Batman Fan]

Ok, I'm a little late and haven't read through any of the posts yet, so sorry if I repeat what others have said:sweat:

This episode just kept the spectacular flow of this 4-part story, although, I was a bit dissapointed at the end. It appears Braniac has somehow inhabited the body of Lex Luthor, so much for normal humans running Cadmus and fighing against the League:sad: But, that tiny dissapointment for me didn't affect the rest of the episode.

The opening with Galatea was nice, and that scene where she called Prof. Hamilton daddy was sweet, yet kinda creepy.

The League turning themselves in was a bit of a surprise, and Batman's resistence to do that was great, mentioning how he's a part-timer and calling this the stupidest plan he ever heard. Batman's small confrontation with Waller was so simple yet really enjoyable, typical Batman, sneaks in, knocks out Eiling, threatens Waller and then dissapears before anyone knows.

The Ultimen invasion on the Watchtower was really cool. Since the founding members were gone, the other League members had to fend for themselves, which led to a great action packed sequence of heroes vs. badguys. Even the staff was fighting with them. Supergirl vs. Galatea was pretty cool, Galatea pretty much winning most of the time, but Supergirl using manipulation and conversation to psyche her out was really cool, and then finishing her off with a power cord. Also, it was funny when the power came on and the League shouted Yeah, and then it went off and they said Ahhh.

Flash's line about the Batmobile:D

And then we're led to a mini Batman vs. Luthor fight. Lex is working on another Amazo which makes sense, since he's inhabited by Brainiac and all Brainiac wants is complete knowledge like Amazo. Waller coming in was really cool and unexpected. So, I'm thinking a showdown between Lex/Brainiac and Amazo next week. Can't wait.

[Jordo]

Ok, I watched it a 2nd time. 2 things.

1. When Supergirl calls out to Superman as the Big 7 are leaving to turn themselves in. "CLar-- Superman!" WOHHH... Wasnt that like really stupid? I mean there was lots of "lower" JLU members there, and some normal hired human workers too.

2. "There are 3 people on Earth smart enough to pull that off, and 2 of them were already in the Watchtower". Who is Batman referring to? What 2 superheros are the 2 smartest people on Earth? Any ideas? Proposals? Guesses?

Also that scene when Atom is all tiny and on the ground beat up, that was really cute. Though I was surprised Supergirl just kind of left him there.



-Jordan

[FreedomBlack]

Ok, I watched it a 2nd time. 2 things.

1. When Supergirl calls out to Superman as the Big 7 are leaving to turn themselves in. "CLar-- Superman!" WOHHH... Wasnt that like really stupid? I mean there was lots of "lower" JLU members there, and some normal hired human workers too.

2. "There are 3 people on Earth smart enough to pull that off, and 2 of them were already in the Watchtower". Who is Batman referring to? What 2 superheros are the 2 smartest people on Earth? Any ideas? Proposals? Guesses?

Also that scene when Atom is all tiny and on the ground beat up, that was really cute. Though I was surprised Supergirl just kind of left him there.



-Jordan
Well, Kara caught herself just in time, I think. So no harm done.

I think Batman was talking about Atom and Steel. Although he could've been referring to Pat Dugan, too.

[Spectre]

You don't suppose Batman could have been referring to himself, do you? No, he's plenty smart, but he's not a computer genius. Besides, he wasn't on the Watchtower when the fusion beam fired.

Atom and Steel are both likely candidates, being scientists...

[Enemy Ace]

I also would have nominated Blue Beetle...IF THEY LET HIM EXIST:shrug:

[FreedomBlack]

Heh. Good one.:D

[Nanashi]

I'm rather surprised at all the talk about the lack of deaths being "cop-outs" (whether it be the results of the League's space gun or the results of the massive Watchtower fight). I don't generally keep up with the latest rules of censorship, but I was under the impression that civilian deaths were pretty much taboo for most kid's shows. It's the classic "when a fighter plane gets destroyed, you'd better pencil in a parachute coming down from it." Hearing that there were no casualties from the space gun shot was no surprise to me; furthermore, seeing Defeated Bad Guy (in this case, Galatea) twitching or groaning after a fight to indicate that they're alive has just become natural to me.

Granted, JLU isn't exactly shooting for the same audience as Barney and Friends, but let's be frank. Did you honestly want to hear about civilians being killed by the hands (albeit indirectly) of the Justice League?

So, have the rules of censorship changed while my back was turned, or are you people still honestly surprised when we hear the words "no casualties"?

[Joker1238]

Theres been deaths before.

Holiyday knights, With the Joker dragging a few bodies.

Than how about the Joker killing people in the Lex Wing(We can assume he killed people, with all the buildings going up in flames and LOTS of people standing around)

Or how about when the Joker killed a few people with the smilx, the Mobster in MOTP, or IN Return of the Joker, when Joker killed thsos people with the lazer beam. No way they got out of that.

I watch Batman mostly out of the series, but that is all I can think off.

[Nanashi]

Theres been deaths before.

Holiyday knights, With the Joker dragging a few bodies.

Than how about the Joker killing people in the Lex Wing(We can assume he killed people, with all the buildings going up in flames and LOTS of people standing around)

Or how about when the Joker killed a few people with the smilx, the Mobster in MOTP, or IN Return of the Joker, when Joker killed thsos people with the lazer beam. No way they got out of that.

I watch Batman mostly out of the series, but that is all I can think off.Yeah, but a lot of the examples you've cited are from the movies, right? There's a difference between what's allowed on television and what's allowed on a DTV.

...Right? I really don't know the specifics.

[Knight]

Which is why I said that Supergirl didn't want to kill her; in her own view, she had no other option. Galatea certainly wasn't going to relent. At that point, I think she just hated Supergirl and only wanted to hurt her; I'm surprised things didn't get bloody, the show's younger viewers not withstanding. Karen couldn't match her physically; every time she tried, she got the snot beaten out of her. But she had to win, because otherwise:

Steel was dead
The Watchtower was doomed
The Justice League would cease to exist
So she did what she had to do. It wasn't pleasant, but she did it.

There is, of course, the possibility that the psychic link between them was still in effect, and Karen caught some of Galatea's bloodlust. I think the lethal blow was more out of painful necessity than anything else.First off no one knows if Galateas dead. You can assume one way or another but it is never ansewred in this ep or hinted to. Did she get shocked pretty bad ?Yes. But she is far from normal and should recover over time. People seem to be writing her off as dead far too easily.




2. "There are 3 people on Earth smart enough to pull that off, and 2 of them were already in the Watchtower". Who is Batman referring to? What 2 superheros are the 2 smartest people on Earth? Any ideas? Proposals? Guesses?
Its been said but it was most likely The Atom and Steel that Batman was talking about. Whenever there is talk of something technical those two are most often called upon. Remember Captain Marvel asking Superman to have Steel or Atom take a look at Luthors device in Clash? Thats because they are the best two when it comes to such situations.

[Joker1238]

The Batman Superman "Movie" was never relly a movie, it was a 3 parter in STAS.

Joker dragging the bodies on New Years eve was not a movie.

The only moves are MotP and ROTJ.

I also think the laughing Fish should count. Maybe.

[Beat]

Damn...

Well, just, that pushed the Y7 to the limit right there. In addition to the newest Braniac-Luthor team, we've got Galatea being fried extra-crispy, more Superfriends than you can shake an invisible jet at, and finally, a lot of fighting.

It's a shame we have to wait so long for the conclusion. One week is way too long!

[spidl]

Lex was superb in "The Return" when talking to AMAZO but NO!! That was Brainiac also.
.
I would think Braniac popped into Lex some time after "The Return". I would think Amazo could detect the difference between Lex and the Lex that showed up at the end of "Panic in the Sky".

I do wonder who would be charge of the League when the Big 7 aren't around.

[Jordo]

Hm...I didn't even know Steel was THAT smart. I don't know much about Steel though. He's really one of the 3 smartest people ON EARTH?

Except that he should be dead after being crushed at full speed and force with a giant piece of watchtower machinery.


-Jordan

[Vixen]

After last week's "wow", I was hoping to feel that way again, but I wasn't...
To me, this was a small step down from last week.

Not that it's a bad thing (the Ultimen being mopped up by the League was pretty sweet:D ), & Bats' line, "that's the dumbest plan I've ever heard" all made the episode for me. One question: when did Steel & Supergirl get the roles of being in command after the founding members? Maybe they showed it somewhere, & I missed it.:confused:

The one thing that I don't understand: was Luthor really Luthor the whole time we've seen him? (including a Better World). Did Brainiac take control of Luthor's body while he was wearing the kryptonite vest to cure his cancer? That seems to be the only plausible reason, IMHO. (Someone may have already brought this up, but I haven't read through every post yet.) Remember that Prof. Hamilton couldn't detect any of Luthor's cancer on the machine he was reading, & needless to say, Brainiac does have control over machinery.



4/5

[Revelator]

I'm rather surprised at all the talk about the lack of deaths being "cop-outs"...
So, have the rules of censorship changed while my back was turned, or are you people still honestly surprised when we hear the words "no casualties"? Some of that surprise is somewhat justified, thanks to how well the BFG impact was portrayed. After those immense, convincing scenes of destruction in Flashpoint, it's hard to believe that not even a single person was killed. To be told there were absolutely no casualties basically contradicts the situation we've witnessed. So plenty of viewers are going to roll their eyes.
IIRC, we first hear that there were no casualities in the abadoned Cadmus building. That's fine. Then Flash says there were no casualties period. That's the stinker line, and I'll assume the crew felt required, or were required to put it in there, despite how false it sounded.


Did you honestly want to hear about civilians being killed by the hands (albeit indirectly) of the Justice League? Yes. Or rather, I'd prefer to be able to assume that, instead of being told about a highly improbable survival rate. Heroism can be a messy business.

[Joker1238]

I would like if the JL and Cadmus says NOTHING about the casualties. That way we can assum people died, like in WF or something other thing like that.

One can say the Joker had a huge body count, with out even saying it.

[Knight]

Hm...I didn't even know Steel was THAT smart. I don't know much about Steel though. He's really one of the 3 smartest people ON EARTH? I think specfically it was smart enough to hack into the Justice League Watchtower. There may very well be people smarter than him in other scientfic fields but when it comes to technology/electronics/hacking and so on he is one of the best.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

Didn't except Braniac to be inside Luthor that's for sure. Though I did notice that Luthor's remote had three circles on it... That would explain Luthors sudden recovery as well.

Great fights in this one and quite brutal too.

Simply put... this show freak'n rocks.

[Gothic Dazrael]

The episode was quite good. I missed some parts of it, so I can't give a good anlaysis until the repeat. But the ending was TERRIBLY cliched, f'ed up and awful. They had a good thing going with Luthor, that is, until Brainiac popped up after most likely downloading and watching Bubblegum Crisis for 50+ hours.

[Viper]

I thought this was a great ep!:D

1. The founding JL members, minus Batman, turning themselves in was the right thing.

2. All the battles were a little hard to keep track, but still terrific.:)

3. My favorite part: the entire Kara vs. Galatea battle! They sure kicked each others butts pretty well! The outcome with Kara winning was superb!:D

4. The surprise plot twist at the end was shocking!!!! Brainiac in a Lex Luthor suit?!:eek: :ack:

WHOA! The next ep may not be pretty, but I'll definately be waiting for it!:eek:

[Joker1238]

a Week is 2 long of a wait for this. But I suppose, this will hold me off for 2 or 3 days. Than at the end of the week, I be crazy for the next show. JLU seems to be getting better and better.

[Style]

You know, not liking an episode or plot twist that everyone else does just sucks. Because then you come off like the grinch, trying to convince people to hate something that they love.

sigh.

But, for historical interest, here's a reprinting of my initial thoughts on the episode.


Ha. Wow. Just WOW.

The Cadmus storyline implodes upon itself spectacularly! It's clear that most fans have been overthinking, (perhaps, overestimating) this story dramatically. Sadly, others have been right on the money.

Firstly, there's THIS little gem.

(JLU conference room.)

Martian Manhunter: Cadmus thinks we blew up those buildings.

Wonderwoman: What was the deathtoll? It looked like a nuke.

Green Lantern: Just a few scrapes and Bruises, no one died.

Style 92: Oh come on! That montage right before the firing made it look like all those widows and orphans were going to buy it! and nothing happened?

Wonderwoman: Thank Hera.

Style 92: Alright, that's, it, I'm out.

Superman: What do you think they're going to do to us?

Green Lantern: Hurt us, bad.

Superman: What if we turn ourselves in?

Green Lantern: They'll put us up at the econosuites, pending an investigation.

Superman:...Premium Channels?

Green Lantern: HBO, Showtime, no Starz.

Superman: Cinemax?

Green Lantern: Oh, yeah.;)

(To rest of the League:)

Superman: Okay, guys, we're turning ourselves in, until this blows over. Kara, hold down the fort.

Supergirl: But the people hate us now! What if they attack us while you're not here?

Superman: Oh, I trust that you can hold down the fort. It's not like they'd launch a massive attack, or anything.

(Later, during the massive attack)

Supergirl: SUPERMAN, YOU JERK!

Ofcourse, that's not the real trouble with the episode...

Luthor: And with this new nannite body, I will rule forever as a god!

Fans: *smiling, giving thumbs up, waiting for the inevitable "Amazo vs. Luthor-Amazo with the fate of the universe hanging in the balance."

Waller: MELTED!!!

Fans: Awwwe...(shake heads in disappointment)

And this one I do like:

(Batman, falling to his death.)

Batman: Ha! I read Style 92's riffs on Darkheart, So I know what to do this time! FORM OF, A GRAPPLING HOOK!

(Hook bounces off side of building)

Batman: Oh, Crud.

And now, the meat of the complaint. Sorry, friends and neighbors, but it really does seem Cadmus wasn't all it was cracked up. In the end, Cadmus turns out to be... A pitiful little government program with very little power after all. But Wait! They were being used as pawns, and the real mastermind is... just a traditional Superman villain. Ho-hum. But wait again! Lex Luthor turns out to be a disguise, and the REAL master behind the conspiracy is... just ANOTHER traditional Superman villain. yawn.

At this point, the only thing that can save this is if the theme of the League's Moral culpability, and the fact that they ARE too powerful and are overstepping their bounds is explored further, but that seems to be resolved down too: "So we're agreed, we're ditching the Superlaser."

Otherwise, Cadmus is revealed for what it really is: just a bloated, hyper-extended version of the Legion of Doom, only far less charming. Such big build up, such little pay-off. Man, what a rip.

I know, I know, you could say "But, but, there's still two more episodes!" But really, it's hard to envision "Divided we fall" turning out to be anything other than "League and/or government vs. Braniac," Without further "Shocking twists feeling hollow, contrived, and forced. I'm sorry, but from where I stand, this emperor ain't wearing no clothes.

And no one is more disappointed than me.

Edited: You know better with the language... Keep it up and see what happens. (Outlander00)
I'll check back in after next week. Because I'm not interested in talking about Cadmus until I get to talk about how Cadmus as a whole unfolded.

[murmur]

Another episode impossibly living up to the hype...makes me wonder how the next two can.

A couple minor gripes (I've read read some, but not all of the thread, so forgive me if I'm repeating):

1. Batman's reaction, while quite funny, was dissapointing. I know Batman's a mad mo-fo and wouldn't volunteer himself over all hunky-dory-like, but I thought he was ethically stronger than that. I suppose it makes sense if he was on his way to confront Waller, which was obviously essential...Still, I wish at least the other members took it harder, especially Clark and Diana. I dunno, something just didn't sit quite right with me. Oh, and the whole "part-timer" thing...I'm glad it's recognized, but come on, who does he think he's fooling?

2. Steel's little speech to Kara. Again, the moment was nice, but it just seemed like too much. "They're special?" I mean, yes, of course they are, but it seems like a little over-justification of them being in charge. I dunno, again I can't quite put my finger on the issue...

[Style]

Edited: You know better with the language... Keep it up and see what happens. (Outlander00)


WHOOPS! Sorry. I'll be more careful.

[Beyond Batman]

Two thumbs up :D

[Batman49]

Wow, what an episode. Never saw Brainiac manipulating Luthor coming. I like the surprise but on the other hand it would have been good to see Luthor so in control of the situation like it had been seeming like this whole time. I still love the reveal though. It was a great surprise.

[Kathy Kane]

Wow! Can you say best epsode ever!!!!
I lved how every single JLU hero got their day in the sun, Steele's speech to Supergirl and ofcourse everybody kicking butt!

[Grimlock]

Oh yeah, "Luthor"? I knew it was Brainiac, and I recall making a comment that he might show up in the last ep discussion.

I don't think that necessarily PROVED that it was going to be braniac. Maybe whatever artist designed the machine Lex was working on just designed it that way.

We all had guesses, but none of us knew what was going to happen.

[PeppeRaskell1]

Man, did that episode go fast or what? I'm still trying to catch my breath!

But seriously, great episode, even though I came in halfway through it, but just in time for the Galatea/Supergirl butt-kicking fest.

And just as seriously, they've got to start stripping this show on weeknights. It would give the majority of us who've only given JLU fleeting glances.

[Grimlock]

The Cadmus plot has failed big time, ok I loved it until Brainiac/Luthor turned out to be the final villain of this arc. They could have done much better then this.


Um, there's still another episode left, so don't go saying "it's failed" when you haven't seen the conclusion.

[Sinsio]

I actually thought Superman's plan was pretty bizarre. I mean, turn yourself in until you can be proven innocent? What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

And, not only does the League turn itself in for a crime they KNOW they didn't commit, they turn themselves in for a crime that they weren't even charged with. The League wasn't even asked to come in for questioning.

And why would the League jump at the chance to turn themselves in to a government that's allied with a group that fired a nuclear weapon at them and stole and used their DNA without their permission. Are we to assume that the best place to fight a dangerous shadow ops group is in the prison of the government they work for.

At least the creative team gave us a scene where Batman tells the Big 6 how stupid the whole plan was.
They were trying to regain the world's trust. They wanted to show that even they can be held responsible for their actions and that they were not above the law (US law anyway.) They were innocent until proven guilty but that doesn't mean they could not be taken into custody for questioning.

[Phantasm]

Watching this episode made me realize...I just don't go on about Batman's greatness out of habit. He earns the praise and adoration with each and every single appearance of his.
:) :D

[Grimlock]

Steel was dead

I don't think we can say steel is dead, he stll had some armor on. I bet he's alive.

[Grimlock]

I'm rather surprised at all the talk about the lack of deaths being "cop-outs" (whether it be the results of the League's space gun or the results of the massive Watchtower fight). I don't generally keep up with the latest rules of censorship, but I was under the impression that civilian deaths were pretty much taboo for most kid's shows. It's the classic "when a fighter plane gets destroyed, you'd better pencil in a parachute coming down from it." Hearing that there were no casualties from the space gun shot was no surprise to me; furthermore, seeing Defeated Bad Guy (in this case, Galatea) twitching or groaning after a fight to indicate that they're alive has just become natural to me.

Granted, JLU isn't exactly shooting for the same audience as Barney and Friends, but let's be frank. Did you honestly want to hear about civilians being killed by the hands (albeit indirectly) of the Justice League?

So, have the rules of censorship changed while my back was turned, or are you people still honestly surprised when we hear the words "no casualties"?
I find it a cop out. My issue is, we the viewers could see the damage the gun did, we obviously would have assumed there would have been deaths. If the script never even mentioned anything about if anyone died or not, then we could have assumed people did die, and CN would have been happy because it's never stated that people died.

[Spectre]

You're taking that out of context. I was saying that if Supergirl hadn't killed Galatea, Steel would've been dead by Galatea's hand. He was too weak to defend himself- at that point she'd probably have just snapped his back in two and been done with him.

Steel was most definitely alive at the end of the episode. Because Galatea wasn't. ;)

[Grimlock]

Than how about the Joker killing people in the Lex Wing(We can assume he killed people, with all the buildings going up in flames and LOTS of people standing around)

Exactly, so i don't see why they couldn't have just not said anything, and we could have assumed there were casualties.

[Sinsio]

Honestly, I feel the plot progression of this episode could have been boiled down to five minutes. This episode just didn't have the "WOW," factor of the first two episodes. I just felt it was padded with the fights and some of the stuff, particularly the Supergirl/Galatea stuff would have been better served in its own separate episode. This just seemed to be an example of jamming everything cool into thirty minutes and it just fell flat in comparison to the opening two episodes.

Mister Intensity
Whether or not an episode is as good as another episode, or even if you liked it or not..... it doesn't make it a filler episode. An example of a filler episode would be an entire episode dedicated to the adventures of Amazo in space that turned out to have completely no significance to the ongoing story. Yes, this episode was mostly all action and thats OK. It wasn't done just to "fill" out the episode. Justice League Unlimited was shown in their prime. Almost every member gets a moment-in-the-spotlight/cameo, even the nonpowered workers.

[Grimlock]

You're taking that out of context. I was saying that if Supergirl hadn't killed Galatea, Steel would've been dead by Galatea's hand. He was too weak to defend himself- at that point she'd probably have just snapped his back in two and been done with him.

Steel was most definitely alive at the end of the episode. Because Galatea wasn't. ;)
Oh, sorry, i thought you were saying he was dead.

My mistake.

[Style]

Whether or not an episode is as good as another episode, or even if you liked it or not..... it doesn't make it a filler episode. An example of a filler episode would be an entire episode dedicated to the adventures of Amazo in space that turned out to have completely no significance to the ongoing story. Yes, this episode was mostly all action and thats OK. It wasn't done just to "fill" out the episode. Justice League Unlimited was shown in their prime. Almost every member gets a moment-in-the-spotlight/cameo, even the nonpowered workers. No, an episode about AMAZO's adventures flying through the Universe would not be a filler episode, it would just be one of many episodes in JLU that was independent from Cadmus. Suggesting that Episodes not having anything to do with Cadmus would mean all of the following were "Filler" episodes:

Episode #1 - Initiation
Episode #2 - For the Man Who Has Everything
Episode #3 - Hawk and Dove
Episode #5 - Kid Stuff
Episode #6 - This Little Piggy
Episode #7 - The Return
Episode #8 - The Greatest Story Never Told
Episode #10 - Dark Heart
Episode #11 - Wake the Dead
Episode #12 - The Once and Future Thing, Part 1: Weird Western Tales
Episode #13 - The Once and Future Thing, Part 2: Time Warped
Episode #14 - The Cat and the Canary
Episode #15 - The Ties That Bind
Episode #18 - The Balance
Episode #19 - Double Date
Episode #21 - Hunter's Moon

You wouldn't seriously argue that these episodes are really "Filler" episodes, would you? After all, JLU isn't all about Cadmus, (in fact, it's at it's best when it's NOT about Cadmus.)

No, an example of a filler episode would be an episode that was "about" Cadmus, but didn't really advance the plot of it at all. As for "Panic in the Sky," it DID advance the plot, but a lot more slowly and in less signifcant ways than previous entries, (up until the end, that is.) So, while it wasn't a true "filler" episode, I can kind of see how someone might think it is.

[Grimlock]

I enjoyed the episode, but as of right now, i was expecting grander things of cadmus.

I liked that we FINALLY got batman in here. I liked the huge fight scene simply because it was cool to see all the different heroes winning (i mean come on, they're the justice league, they have like every hero in the DCU, they SHOULD be able to womp on some clones).

As far as what i didn't like...

1. Why would waller tell bats that luthor funded cadmus? At that point, there was no advantage for her to do so. She should have denied it.

2. I'm really disappointed batman is getting so little screen time. I don't care how many previous animated appearances he's had, i'd like to see him, and i'm surprised it took him this long to get into the 4-part season finale.

3. I sure hope task force x makes an appearance in the next episode. Seems kind of a waste to have an entire episode dedicated to them and then have them not be used again. Not to mention that what they stole turned out to be useless as well since it got destroyed.

4. Please don't spoil it for me if task force x is in next week's episode. I'll find out in a week.

5. On that note, there are actually a lot of spoilers for future episodes in these talkback threads. Not exactly direct spoilers, but someone will complain about something (e.g. man so luthor ISN'T a genius?) and then someone else will reply, "wait until next week", so obviously we know the opposite is going to happen.

I know, i guess i just shouldn't read talkback threads if i am worried about spoilers for future episodes, but it does kind of suck.

6. And on THAT note, i thought i had read in one of these talkbacks that there we going to be a ton of continuity references in this 4-part finale. I have yet to see "a ton", although i guess it's a relative term. And again, PLEASE don't say, "there will be in next week's episode", i don't want it spoiled for me! I am simply pointing out things that i don't like currently, not things i don't like about the show as a whole.

7. So you guys seem to be saying Steel is the other "smartest" person? I don't know about that, it'd be nice if Dwayne could chime in here.

8. I understand the point of Steel's monologue to Kara, but "they're special" was really kind of lame to me. Just seemed so...G.I. Joe "you can do it because you're special!" to me

9. This has also been discussed ad naseum, but, come on, SOMEONE had to have died in the aftershocks of that blast. I don't see why they have to say "no one died". If they never said anything at all, the fans could have ASSUMED people died, and CN would have been none the wiser.

Why do i want people to die? I don't really, but i think if the league realized their weapon had KILLED people, they would take it a lot more seriously.

Anway, looking forward to next week's episode.

[Grimlock]

After all, JLU isn't all about Cadmus, (in fact, it's at it's best when it's NOT about Cadmus.)


Well that's your opinion about when it's at its best. I think most everyone would agree that "Doomsday Saction" is JLU at its best, and that deals with cadmus.

[maczero]

2. "There are 3 people on Earth smart enough to pull that off, and 2 of them were already in the Watchtower". Who is Batman referring to? What 2 superheros are the 2 smartest people on Earth? Any ideas? Proposals? Guesses?I'm guessing J'onn and possibly Steel.



Also that scene when Atom is all tiny and on the ground beat up, that was really cute. Though I was surprised Supergirl just kind of left him there.
I thought that was kind of messed up to leave the little guy laying on the floor. I mean he was in danger not just from the Ultimen, but an unobservant JLer could easily have stepped on him.

[Ian]

I'm rather surprised at all the talk about the lack of deaths being "cop-outs" (whether it be the results of the League's space gun or the results of the massive Watchtower fight). I don't generally keep up with the latest rules of censorship, but I was under the impression that civilian deaths were pretty much taboo for most kid's shows. [...] So, have the rules of censorship changed while my back was turned, or are you people still honestly surprised when we hear the words "no casualties"?While I can't answer the question conclusively, I can say that, based on what TMNT has done with this, the viewers have a right to be surprised, or even let down.

This last season of TMNT had:

A devastating war between Earth and two alien empires. With many enemy ships outright destroyed (several with no parachutes or escape pods) and New York devastated. There were no explicit deaths, but the complete destruction of several military bases were heavily implied.
The destruction of an entire culture and its people by the hands of the turtles, the "good guys", with no apparent survivors.
The very explicit destruction of two helicopters, with the pilots still inside (again, no parachutes).
A partial account of the Shredder's crimes, including a body count in the millions.
Now, while the circunstances presented in both shows vary greatly, it still feels surprising that JLU, a show with even less censorship than TMNT (at least in theory) actually has to point out that people didn't die.

[Squall]

No, an episode about AMAZO's adventures flying through the Universe would not be a filler episode, it would just be one of many episodes in JLU that was independent from Cadmus. Suggesting that Episodes not having anything to do with Cadmus would mean all of the following were "Filler" episodes...
Well, considering how deep DCAU continuity goes at this point, there are very few episodes that don't relate to each other in one way or another anymore! :eek: :p

[Dwayne McDuffie]

If the script never even mentioned anything about if anyone died or not, then we could have assumed people did die, and CN would have been happy because it's never stated that people died.

You know that for a fact, do you?

[poly4life]

Batman said that there were only three people smart enough to activate the watch tower's "death beam" (my words, not his, obviously) remotely, and two of those were on the watch tower.

First of all, I found it quite surprising that he doesn't consider himself "smart enough" to hack the watch tower. I mean, it's not like he didn't pay for the place (in case you didn't know, it was made clear that Bruce Wayne financed the Watch Tower in its first appearance), and therefore it is reasonable to think he may know the satelite inside and out.

Second, and more importantly, who were those two people to which Bats' was referring? Huntress is pretty clever, but she never hacked a satelite in the comics. Steel may be more clever and, subsequently, a better candidate. So, I'm thinking Bats' meant Steel and J'onzz. Or maybe Question and Steel or J'onzaa. I just don't know; what do you guys think?

Interestingly, Professor Hamilton, theoretically, confirmed that the watch tower can be remotely accessed using their new technology. It's possible that he could've also been able to access the Watch Tower. I guess we know what Cadmus might've eventually done.

I found the finale for this episode somewhat un-believable. Who saved Batman (Like he needs saving!)? J'onzz could've morphed into a white male. More than likely, however, it was a badly drawn hand of Diana. It would certainly make sense that she saves him, to make it more meaningful. Supes' would've been the guy, if not for without the sleeve.

And Amanda Waller releasing the original 7 members? She had no idea Luthor possesed unearthly powers. And most likely none of the JL did, either - but we know Batman was dumbfounded. So, why would she need them? If you represent the government, even a special rogue ops branch of it, you bring backup to arrest a guy. She should've brought Cadmus guys, unless she was acting on her own will. But I don't buy that. In theory, it makes sense, bonding to fight a common enemy. But there was no explanation how that came about and as such their standoff against Luthor felt rushed.

I know, Batman used a little "tough love" on her, waking her up to the real purposes of Luthor. If this scene was to carry weight throughout the rest of the episode, they should've had a scene where Amanda converses with the original 7 and reveals why she is releasing them and what that means with regard to her crusade against them. I hope they talk more about this in the next episode, to redeem themselves. I mean, are we to believe that now she doesn't find them a threat? What about the citizens of Earth? Regardless of who fired the beam, the JL have a lot of power. The people have a right to be concerned and even fearful.

[Knight]

I'm guessing J'onn and possibly Steel.


Since J'onn wasnt on the watchtower he couldnt have been one of the people Batman was talking about.



Second, and more importantly, who were those two people to which Bats' was referring? Huntress is pretty clever, but she never hacked a satelite in the comics. Steel may be more clever and, subsequently, a better candidate. So, I'm thinking Bats' meant Steel and J'onzz. Or maybe Question and Steel or J'onzaa. I just don't know; what do you guys think? J'onn wasn't on the Watchtower. Aside from that Atom and Steel are the scientfic geniuses on the team.



I found the finale for this episode somewhat un-believable. Who saved Batman (Like he needs saving!)? J'onzz could've morphed into a white male. More than likely, however, it was a badly drawn hand of Diana. It would certainly make sense that she saves him, to make it more meaningful. Supes' would've been the guy, if not for without the sleeve. Are people completly forgetting about Shayera? Thats most likely whose hand that was.

[sdp]

so is Galactea supposed to be Power Girl?

It looked like PG but they called her Galactea,

[Knight]

so is Galactea supposed to be Power Girl?

It looked like PG but they called her Galactea,
Galatea is Galatea she was obviously influenced by DC comics Powergirl but that's about all we know for now. Plus she is a murderous bad gal. Which makes her slightly different from the comics version.

[Tim Thomason]

Since J'onn wasnt on the watchtower he couldnt have been one of the people Batman was talking about.
Was Batman referring to that very moment (when he was talking to Waller) or was he talking about when the Fusion Beam went off? I thought it was the latter, and that would mean J'onn was on the Watchtower, talking with Superman and Green Arrow.

Also, about the whole "no casualties" thing, the way I think it happened is CN saw the episode(s), realized there was no mention of the number of casualties, and told the creative team to specify the number of casualties (0).

[Knight]

Was Batman referring to that very moment (when he was talking to Waller) or was he talking about when the Fusion Beam went off? I thought it was the latter, and that would mean J'onn was on the Watchtower, talking with Superman and Green Arrow.I took it as Batman talking about the "now" and not when it happened.

[Primal Slayer]

This episode was great, from beginning to end. Even though this could be Tea's finale performance, it would be cool if they kept her alive and have her go to the good side and become PowerGirl and have her do the whole redemption thing.

[DerekPowers]

I find it a cop out. My issue is, we the viewers could see the damage the gun did, we obviously would have assumed there would have been deaths. If the script never even mentioned anything about if anyone died or not, then we could have assumed people did die, and CN would have been happy because it's never stated that people died.
I really found The Flash's comment about 'no casulties' to be really unrealistic. In "Flashpoint", the evacuated Cadmus was bad enough, but you could atleast assume there were civilian causlties. But this just makes it all the more unrealistic, which, for me, and i can only speak for myself, seriously detracts from an episode's enjoyablity. it just bothers me.

The damage to the city shown in "Flashpoint" would make civilian casulties almost impossible. And, honestly, i find the suggestion a little insulting. I know it's the freaking censors fault, but still, it doesnt make it any less easy to swallow. I think the suggestion that no one died just desensatizes people to that kind of violence, and honestly, i hate to draw comparisons to 9-11, BUT, when i watched Flashpoint, that's what it kind of reminded me of. And to suggest that that kind of violence, ESPECIALLY in the world we live in today, would result in everyone being peachy keen and no deaths, is SO irresponsible, imo. I mean, give me a break, its so unrealistic. When is this country going to stop being so backwards when it comes to these kinds of things. If the youth of Japan can survive things like Evangelion, Kenshin, and every other appocolyptic, uber death related stories, then you telling me the youth of America cant handle this? Its so frustrating. And it desensotizes, like i said. To show a realistic aftermath of such destruction, intwined in a compelling and emotional story, could actually do kids GOOD, make them more resopnsible and sensitive, but rather it just trivializes that kind of violence, and desensotizes kids to it. And it just makes those great destruction scenes in Flashpoint seem wasted. AND since our country has experienced that kind of violence in a major city recently, its makes it all the more unrealistic to say no one died, and still expect us to take it seriously. Man, it really bugs me....

Anyway, ALOT of things bugged me about this episode, and while that could all change depending on where the plot goes and what ground is covered in the next 2 epsidoes, I still found the turn of events in this episode to be some-what of a cop-out.

First, I found the whole Cadmus being turned into victims of Lex/Brainiac's maninpulation to be a cop-out. All of a sudden this evil force that's been the main baddies for the whole series, are being turned into innocent victims??? I mean, what about Iling firing that nuke at that island? What about Hamilton and all the human experiments with the Ultimen and such? What about Tala, what about all that? Now we're supose to just be like, oh, they're not so bad after all. They work for the 'real' government, and it's only Luthor who is bad. I was alittle surprised at that turn of events.

I really hope it's revealed later that Waller was the only one in Cadmus who was left in the dark, or who wasnt somehow either being controlled by or working for/with Brainiac/Luthor. As strange as it was to see Waller team up w/ the League all of a sudden, it would make more sense than the suggestion that all of Cadmus all along has been just pawns in Luthors plan. It just seems like a cop-out, and almost like the creative team was doing damage control, as to not suggest that, gasp, the government might at some level be up to no good or be involved in shaddy dealings. I personally would like to see it revealed in the next episode that the other high ranking Cadmus officials are actually either in on Lex's plot, or had been being controlled all along, and were actually manipulating Waller.

Next, while i liked the Supergirl/Galetea fight a lot, i found most of the fight on the watchtower to be a little boring and repetitive after a while. I mean, why not have some of the heros speak? plan? Stratagize? work together? after a while it just turned into a generic, filler slap-fight.

The founding members turning themselves in also seemed strange, but i guess it was reasonable.

Last, I found it REALLY weird that the League didnt even suspect Cadmus was the ones who took control of the laser canon, in order to make the public turn on the league. It would make total sense, ESPECIALLY since the facility was evacuated. I mean, that could be a reason to evacuate, now couldnt it? Evacuate to save your own skin, than stage an attack by the League in order to damage their reputation. I'm really surprised the League didnt even suspect Cadmus, especially Batman. But oh well...


Overall, i think this was a good episode, and i definately CAN FREAKIN WAIT till next week's, BUT i really hope we get more explaination on all the Cadmus stuff. For example, it's implied in QA that there was some grand greater sceme in store, something major. but it implied it was Cadmus's plot, not brainiacs'. Like, i really hope that all the suggestion and all the build up about Cadmus isnt just explained by, oh, it was Brainiac.

I also hope that Hamilton and the other Cadmus officials return. Sure, Waller always seemed SLIGHTLY reasonable, but i find it hard to believe that Iling and Hamilton would all of a sudden team up w/ the League just because they learn Luthor had an alterior motive. Hamilton obviously hates the League, and Iling is just plain evil (after what he does in DS), so now for the all to just kiss and make up, eh, i'm not buying it. Like, i can buy Waller doing it, but only if shes the only good guy in the pit of vipers, you know. She could have been being played by her co-horts, you know? I guess we'll find out.

Now, the good things about the episode, and there was lots:

Batman. He's perfect, every time. His reaction to Superman's plan was great, and the Part-timer line, ah, so they decided to explain it. And it was great. Bruce found a way to get special treatment, as a so-called 'part-timer', where he has more wiggle room that the other 6. Yup, thats Batman. He's the man.

Brainiac. That last scene was OFF THE CHAIN!!! oh my god. First, i hope that really was Lex and not some robot copy. It would make it so much more powerfull, and given all the fantastic things that happen in JL/JLU, it wouldnt necessarily mean the end of Lex as we know it.

Here is what immediately started to think when the episode was over, and really hope i'm right about some of this. I think what Brainiac is doing is setting into motion the destruction of earth, because he's gained all earth's knowledge at this time. That's what he does. Maybe he couldnt destroy earth by himself, so he's ushering in the end of the world buy pitting the League agains the government (and i'm hoping all the world's governments. Like others have mentioned, i hope we see an appearence by the "world essembly" soon, not just the US government). And i'm also hoping that Brainiac was working with Cadmus for a reason: Like, i hope Brainiac wasnt just after Amazo's blueprints (although thats a spicy meatball), but also after MAGIC, which is why he was working with Tala (Magic could be considered part of a world's knowledge and technology), itd be cool if he was after the power of earth's Gods, ie, the Anihlator. If Brainiac truely gained all of earth's knowledge, which is why he's trying to destroy it, then wouldnt it make sense (and be sooo cool), if he got a hold of litterly EVERYTHING. For example, the Chronos technology. All of earth's knowledge would include all the magic we've seen on JL/JLU up to this point, all the hero AND villian technology, all of Cadmus's technology, knowledge and power of the GODS, everything. And now he's trying to destroy the world. I really really really hope that's the case, and that he's evolved into a totally all-powerfull, god-like being, that is now ushering in an apokolipps to fullfill his original purpose: to gain a planet's knowledge and then destroy it.

And i hope the form Brainiac takes is a new, more extreme form, not the old Brainiac body, which has been done to death at this point. I hope its a new and improved, completely evolved beyond the League's wildist imagination, Brainiac. With all that technology at his command (ie, Amazo tech, Chronos tech, Magic, God's power, etc), then if Amazo does return in the next ep (i'm hoping he does, and betting he does in one of the next 2 eps), then even Amazo would be no match for him.

Man, there are so many possiblities. I think the turn of events involving Cadmus in this ep could either be a big cop-out, or a serioulsy bad-ass story, depending on where it goes next week. So i'm trying to not feel TOO much like it's a cop-out untill i see where the story goes.

What i did find to be a total cop-out was the no-causlties thing. It just doesnt make sense. Like, if Luthor/Brainiac REALLY wanted the JLU and Cadmus to fight, wouldnt he fire at a facility that wasnt abandoned? Youre telling me the League had knowledge of that facilities evacuation but Brainiac, who was so closely tied to Cadmus through Luthor, didnt know? It makes NO SENSE. To spark a war, he'd WANT to kill people at Cadmus, AND civilians. Dont tell me Brainiac OR Luthor has a conscience. So again, i know it's a censor's thing (yet another reason to be pissed at 'the man'), but it doesnt make the impact on the believablity of the story any less, AND if the writers know they'd have to do that kind of crap, then couldnt they find a way to alter the story so they didnt have to include that? I'd rather the story be altered inorder to leave out such un-realistic stuff, but i guess it's easy for me to say. This is a great story, but it's believablity is really hurt by all that. I guess i'm just one of those people that really get bugged by stuff like that, and those things really get in the way of my enjoying the overall impact of the episode. I supose IF there was some even more sinister reason Brainiac didnt want to kill anyone in that blast, that it could be more believable, but that seems unlikely. I just wish the writers had thought of a more believable or clever way to deal w/ these censor's issues, than just these completely irrational, illogical, and just plain jarring scenes, in an otherwise really well written story. AND i want to restate that i think its more damaging to send the message to kids that that kind of devestation would result in no deaths. And, it wouldnt have been the JLU's fault, as J'onn kept pointing out, and was right.

Last thing, and my rant will stop. If i'm right in my speculation and Brainiac is trying to usher in the appololipps because he's finally, after all these years, has aquired ALL of earth's knowledge and technology, and i mean ALL of it, then to not include the Joker, i'm sorry, its just SOOOO freakin cruel. I know it cant be helped, but it still stings like hell, ESPECAILLY when Brainiac should know that the best way to fight Batman would be with the Joker ;) . peace.

[Rabi~en~Rose]

Are people completly forgetting about Shayera? Thats most likely whose hand that was.

yeah it would make sense for her to catch Batman he voted her out so maybe her saving him from that fall could be redeeming? he's the only original member she hasnt patched things up with I believe

[Joker1238]

yeah it would make sense for her to catch Batman he voted her out so maybe her saving him from that fall could be redeeming? he's the only original member she hasnt patched things up with I believe
I did not catch Wake the dead, So did they have votes for members or something??

Like Supes yes?
Bats no?
Flash yes?
WW no
MM yes?
GL yes???

is this about right??

[Rabi~en~Rose]

Like Supes yes?
Bats no?
Flash yes?
WW no
MM yes?
GL yes???

thats about right except for GL he abstained his vote

[mal]

They were trying to regain the world's trust. They wanted to show that even they can be held responsible for their actions and that they were not above the law (US law anyway.) They were innocent until proven guilty but that doesn't mean they could not be taken into custody for questioning.
That's my problem with that whole scene. Supes clearly states that the founding members were turning themselves in to DCAU U.S. custody until it could be proven they were innocent.

The problem is that the U.S. government was never depicted as having charged the League with a crime or having made a request or issued a warrant for their arrest. If you're not charged with a crime and you decide to go talk to the authorities you're not normally considered in custody.

So I can understand why they would want to meet with the authorities to answer questions and put on a good face for the world, but I can't understand why they would have to be detained or considered in U.S. custody given those circumstances.

That's what made Superman's "let's go sit in prison until we can be proved innocent" plan seem odd to me. It was like he thought he was dealing with a country that didn't have due process.

[DerekPowers]

You know, not liking an episode or plot twist that everyone else does just sucks. Because then you come off like the grinch, trying to convince people to hate something that they love.

sigh.

But, for historical interest, here's a reprinting of my initial thoughts on the episode.



Ha. Wow. Just WOW.

The Cadmus storyline implodes upon itself spectacularly! It's clear that most fans have been overthinking, (perhaps, overestimating) this story dramatically. Sadly, others have been right on the money.

Firstly, there's THIS little gem.

(JLU conference room.)

Martian Manhunter: Cadmus thinks we blew up those buildings.

Wonderwoman: What was the deathtoll? It looked like a nuke.

Green Lantern: Just a few scrapes and Bruises, no one died.

Style 92: Oh come on! That montage right before the firing made it look like all those widows and orphans were going to buy it! and nothing happened?

Wonderwoman: Thank Hera.

Style 92: Alright, that's, it, I'm out.

Superman: What do you think they're going to do to us?

Green Lantern: Hurt us, bad.

Superman: What if we turn ourselves in?

Green Lantern: They'll put us up at the econosuites, pending an investigation.

Superman:...Premium Channels?

Green Lantern: HBO, Showtime, no Starz.

Superman: Cinemax?

Green Lantern: Oh, yeah.

(To rest of the League

Superman: Okay, guys, we're turning ourselves in, until this blows over. Kara, hold down the fort.

Supergirl: But the people hate us now! What if they attack us while you're not here?

Superman: Oh, I trust that you can hold down the fort. It's not like they'd launch a massive attack, or anything.

(Later, during the massive attack)

Supergirl: SUPERMAN, YOU JERK!

Ofcourse, that's not the real trouble with the episode...

Luthor: And with this new nannite body, I will rule forever as a god!

Fans: *smiling, giving thumbs up, waiting for the inevitable "Amazo vs. Luthor-Amazo with the fate of the universe hanging in the balance."

Waller: MELTED!!!

Fans: Awwwe...(shake heads in disappointment)

And this one I do like:

(Batman, falling to his death.)

Batman: Ha! I read Style 92's riffs on Darkheart, So I know what to do this time! FORM OF, A GRAPPLING HOOK!

(Hook bounces off side of building)

Batman: Oh, Crud.

And now, the meat of the complaint. Sorry, friends and neighbors, but it really does seem Cadmus wasn't all it was cracked up. In the end, Cadmus turns out to be... A pitiful little government program with very little power after all. But Wait! They were being used as pawns, and the real mastermind is... just a traditional Superman villain. Ho-hum. But wait again! Lex Luthor turns out to be a disguise, and the REAL master behind the conspiracy is... just ANOTHER traditional Superman villain. yawn.

At this point, the only thing that can save this is if the theme of the League's Moral culpability, and the fact that they ARE too powerful and are overstepping their bounds is explored further, but that seems to be resolved down too: "So we're agreed, we're ditching the Superlaser."

Otherwise, Cadmus is revealed for what it really is: just a bloated, hyper-extended version of the Legion of Doom, only far less charming. Such big build up, such little pay-off. Man, what a rip.

I know, I know, you could say "But, but, there's still two more episodes!" But really, it's hard to envision "Divided we fall" turning out to be anything other than "League and/or government vs. Braniac," Without further "Shocking twists feeling hollow, contrived, and forced. I'm sorry, but from where I stand, this emperor ain't wearing no clothes.

And no one is more disappointed than me.

Edited: You know better with the language... Keep it up and see what happens. (Outlander00)


I'll check back in after next week. Because I'm not interested in talking about Cadmus until I get to talk about how Cadmus as a whole unfolded.
I actually agree with most of your points, and kind of list similar thoughts about complaints i had above, although much more long windedly :p . But i think it still has the potential to pay off. We still dont know for sure how deeply Lexcorp or Brainiac inflitrated the government. If Hamilton and Iling turn out to have been in on Luthor's plan all along, then i'd buy it. Or something else could happen, it's still not beyond redmeption, Cadmus i mean. My main problem was a lot of this episode seemed kind of corny, like, the president, Waller, oh, so the gov are saints, i forgot :sad: . And no one dies, and it ruins the weight and threat Cadmus had with it all season. The fact that the League didnt suspect Cadmus staged the whole attack to make the public turn on them, also was strange. the stakes seemed to be lowered in this episode, with regards to Cadmus. Cadmus definatly doesnt seem it was all it's cracked up to be, but maybe i'm just way to excited about and new version of brainiac to care that much, and all the potential such a story could bring. I'm hoping Chronos shows up next week :D .

But it did seem Waller knew 'the president' really well, so. I think Cadmus could still be cool if it turns out to be only Waller and maybe the president who were slightly good and the rest of the people around them were actually working for Lex, controlled by brainiac, the government completely infiltrated by an outside force, like Brainiac or lex, or an aien force, or some kind of combination. this storyline i think is still redemable because of how much possibilities the brainiac/amazo thing brings with it. peace.

[Nanashi]

Also, about the whole "no casualties" thing, the way I think it happened is CN saw the episode(s), realized there was no mention of the number of casualties, and told the creative team to specify the number of casualties (0).Agreed. I think people misunderstood my first post - I didn't mean "Are you honestly surprised that no one was killed in that mammoth explosion" (Because, obviously, yes, some people would have no doubt died in that accident). I meant, "Are you honestly still surprised to hear these censor-influenced lines?"

People call it a cop-out, but I see it as something the creative team was probably forced to put in there, and I was shocked that so many people here assumed the show could get away with mass civilian murder. It wasn't a "cop-out" - it was probably necessary in order to get the episode to air. And if you really don't like it, you could always cover your ears and hum to yourself while Flash was speaking.

"The evacuation's going okay. Lots of minor injuries, but-" LA LA LA I can't hear you! LA LA...

[maczero]

I think so many people are upset about "no casualties" is because of the realistic depiction of the aftermath from the blast. The massive shockwave, the crumbling overpasses, the tossed over cars that were being driven as the blast hit, and the fallen buildings make it impossible to believe that no one died.

A better way to have handled the aftermath would have been to limit the destruction to the crater where CADMUS hq stood. Probably wouldn't have been as shocking for us (the audience at home), but for the people living near the blast, the fear would be very intense.

[Quintessence]

Well, here's the thing about Cadmus, and I can totally understand why everyone's so upset that they found out this clever shadow-ops government turns out to be Handily Plot Device for Luthor number 68...

It probably won't change a thing.

Yes, Luthor was pulling the strings, but he only pulled the strings of those who had power that did have fears of the Justice League. The only mistake that I see that Cadmus bought into was the laser. All their other fears were stemmed on "What if the Justice League went Rogue", Luthor or not, that's still a viable option, and one they might prepare for even more seriously now that the waves of Ultimen failed to even bring down half of the league with the most powerful members not being there. I'll be severely disappointed if after the end of this arc, Waller shakes hands with Batman and says "Well, we got you all wrong, partner, but at least we became friends out of this".

And for those who say the Justice League will fight Brainiac and Cadmus will be so impressed that their lives were saved by their enemy.... please. Most of them wouldn't be here today if not for all the times the Justice League saved the world. It wouldn't change anything in their minds. Remember what how the President acted "Yeah, you kept this planet from being orbital debris a hundred times over, but that big laser thing kinda voids all that". That's the nature of humans, no matter how much good you do, the second you slip up, you're not to be trusted any more.

I took it for what it was. Cadmus being controlled by an outside force, for at least part of the way. And then when the two powers proved useless, they were turned on each other. I just find it sad, completely sad the reasons why Brainiac did what he did. He has the knowledge of countless worlds, more technologically advance than us. But he needed Earth's know-how to build his ultimate body? I call Bull. If it was just to get rid of the League, that's better. And even more plausible, given now how the League might now be a force beyond his reckoning. But because he needed Cadmus's specs for his new shell? Wrong.

[mal]

I'll be severely disappointed if after the end of this arc, Waller shakes hands with Batman and says "Well, we got you all wrong, partner, but at least we became friends out of this".
I agree with you on this one. Luthor may have manipulated Waller but he didn't make her commit all those crimes. No way should she get off scot free because she's suddenly seen the light.

[Crimefighter]

It is safe to assume Lex Luthor is now dead after Brainac basically took over his body?

[Style]

It is safe to assume Lex Luthor is now dead after Brainac basically took over his body? I'm curious as to why you think this is a safe thing to assume.

[Rabi~en~Rose]

It is safe to assume Lex Luthor is now dead after Brainac basically took over his body?

it didn't kill Gear when Brainiac tookover his body so I have to say Luthor should be fine

[awh1978]

The problem is that the U.S. government was never depicted as having charged the League with a crime or having made a request or issued a warrant for their arrest. If you're not charged with a crime and you decide to go talk to the authorities you're not normally considered in custody.

So I can understand why they would want to meet with the authorities to answer questions and put on a good face for the world, but I can't understand why they would have to be detained or considered in U.S. custody given those circumstances.

That's what made Superman's "let's go sit in prison until we can be proved innocent" plan seem odd to me. It was like he thought he was dealing with a country that didn't have due process.
While that may have been Superman's intent, in reality we never saw what they did to them after they truned themselves in. They weren't handcuffed, and presumably weren't shackled up in separate cells. It's also possible that if they had asked politely, the authorities would have let them go. It would have been nice to see them sitting around, perhaps talking about how they should all call themselves part timers to enjoy the perks of elite status without the obligations, but there just wasn't enough time.

One thing that this episode did illustrate is the lack of a command structure without the big 7. They were pretty much fighting for their lives so there wasn't much need for strategy, but I don't think Supergirl has enough experience to be the top field commander. It's not entirely clear who should be top dog.

[FALLEN ELDOR]

It's not entirely clear who should be top dog.


I'd say somebody with a little more experience then an 18 year old child ;)
If anyone should have been left in charge it should have been the "old timers" like Wildcat, Fate and other (ahem...) senior members. :sweat:

[Grimlock]

You know that for a fact, do you?
No, it was an assumption on my part. The reason i assumed was because having seen the effect of the gun, i think most viewers *would* have assumed people died. So the fact that Flash actually came out and said "no casualties", i figured it was stuck in there to please CN.

But please, if i'm wrong, enlighten us, because i'd like to know if we're all riled up over this for nothing.

[Dwayne McDuffie]

No, it was an assumption on my part. The reason i assumed was because having seen the effect of the gun, i think most viewers *would* have assumed people died. So the fact that Flash actually came out and said "no casualties", i figured it was stuck in there to please CN.

But you argued the opposite, the way I read it. Of *course* there should have been casualties, deaths even. The reason we'd go out of our way to say there weren't any should be self-explanatory. It's a Y-7 show.

[Grimlock]

But you argued the opposite, the way I read it. Of *course* there should have been casualties, deaths even. The reason we'd go out of our way to say there weren't any should be self-explanatory. It's a Y-7 show.
And yet it doesn't appear that the creative team has gone out of their way to explain other times that no deaths have occured.

Do you consider World's Finest and Return of the Joker to be Y-7? There is just as much, if not MORE damage done (joker with the giant wing, and in ROTJ, the giant satellite beam) to cities, and yet no one ever says, "good thing no one was killed from all that excessive damage".

I am sure there are plenty of other examples in other episodes (explosions go off, buildings collapse, etc.) all the time in these shows, and very rarely do i recall characters saying, "good thing no one died from that building collapsing when superman punched kalibak (sp?) into it".

But then my memory may be faulty.

[Dwayne McDuffie]

Do you consider World's Finest and Return of the Joker to be Y-7? There is just as much, if not MORE damage done (joker with the giant wing, and in ROTJ, the giant satellite beam) to cities, and yet no one ever says, "good thing no one was killed from all that excessive damage".

I am sure there are plenty of other examples in other episodes (explosions go off, buildings collapse, etc.) all the time in these shows, and very rarely do i recall characters saying, "good thing no one died from that building collapsing when superman punched kalibak (sp?) into it".

But then my memory may be faulty.

It doesn't matter what *I* consider to be Y-7. When BS&P asks us to do something, we do it. They're quite reasonable, in my opinion.

[Grimlock]

It doesn't matter what *I* consider to be Y-7. When BS&P asks us to do something, we do it. They're quite reasonable, in my opinion.
What does BS&P stand for?

And so you guys *were* asked to do it? That was really my only question/comment, which tells me you guys hadn't planned on doing it in the first place. Thus you didn't really feel it added anything...otherwise you would have done it yourselves, correct?

[Kieralinn]

I took it as Batman talking about the "now" and not when it happened.

Batman's exact words were "Two of them were already on the Watchtower."
So he was talking about when it was fired. Which means, to me, he is referring to J'onn and the Atom.

I found it weird that he didn't include himself in that scenerio also. Batman would know that Watchtower inside and out I would think, and be able to do it too. Why he wasn't part of that....who knows?:confused: He is certainly smart enough to do it if he wanted to.

[Dwayne McDuffie]

Broadcast Standards and Practices. There's a department like this at every network that makes sure that each episode's contents are appropriate to their internal standards, as well as to the rating that each series gets. It's slightly different for each network, for instance Kids WB is generally more strict about "fantasy violence" than Cartoon Network.

And the line did add something: the assurance to every viewer that no innocents were killed. IIRC, I tried to be cute about it first draft, by having Waller say no one was harmed (but she was only answering a specific question about Cadmus personnel). I thought we could skate on that but I didn't get away with it. They wanted to be crystal clear: no one was injured.

[Quintessence]

Batman's exact words were "Two of them were already on the Watchtower."
So he was talking about when it was fired. Which means, to me, he is referring to J'onn and the Atom.

I found it weird that he didn't include himself in that scenerio also. Batman would know that Watchtower inside and out I would think, and be able to do it too. Why he wasn't part of that....who knows?:confused: He is certainly smart enough to do it if he wanted to.
Bare with me, because this might be a stretch.

I feel he meant that even though he did piece the Tower together (I don't care how smart he is, I find it hard to believe he shelled out Millions for parts and all of a sudden a Orbital station was built... and no one put that together...), he doesn't have the link up capable to go into he programming of the Tower from the batcave. So he was effectively out of the loop. but with someone of Luthor's resources and intelligence....


Nah, you're right. He messed up and/or just left himself out to clear his name. He did say he wasn't going to give himself up, after all.

[Grimlock]

Broadcast Standards and Practices. There's a department like this at every network that makes sure that each episode's contents are appropriate to their internal standards, as well as to the rating that each series gets. It's slightly different for each network, for instance Kids WB is generally more strict about "fantasy violence" than Cartoon Network.

And the line did add something: the assurance to every viewer that no innocents were killed. IIRC, I tried to be cute about it first draft, by having Waller say no one was harmed (but she was only answering a specific question about Cadmus personnel). I thought we could skate on that but I didn't get away with it. They wanted to be crystal clear: no one was injured.
Alright, thanks for the info. And again, my original point was that i hoped you guys could have done something like you said you originally wrote (i.e. waller's line), i would have thought that could have pleased both fans and BS&P.

But a lot of us here were wondering if BS&P did want to be "crystal clear", so thanks for clearing that up.

[nerium_oleander]

I'm guessing J'onn and possibly Steel.

I was thinking Atom and J'onn but now that I reconsider, I dunno if J'onn would even be in that count. Hmmm will have to think on this more. Blue Beetle? *smirk?*

[poly4life]

Ya know, to put it warmly, it would be kind and appreciative (I shouldn't forget convenient) if any members of the JLU staff who are reading this right now could just tell us to which two people Batman was referring. I'm guessing they don't even know; they just put that line in there to get people talkin' about it - and it worked pretty well actually. Batman says there are two people, besides Luthor, who could access the Watch Tower and fire the projectile remotely, yet those two people were on the Watch Tower at the time. What, your pal Oracle not smart enough?

[Enemy Ace]

In regard to the non-casualties issue, I can understand why it was required to have a line like that, but I the same time, in my own personal perspective of the story, I choose to ignore it. I'll acknowledge the fact that it was said, so I won't argue about it like it wasn't said, but in my own private universe, Lex Luthor intentionally caused a big space cannon to go off that killed untold score of civillians and put the blame on the Justice League. I like to think of it as some sort of director's cut :D

[Yojimbo]

Ya know, to put it warmly, it would be kind and appreciative (I shouldn't forget convenient) if any members of the JLU staff who are reading this right now could just tell us to which two people Batman was referring. I'm guessing they don't even know; they just put that line in there to get people talkin' about it - and it worked pretty well actually. Batman says there are two people, besides Luthor, who could access the Watch Tower and fire the projectile remotely, yet those two people were on the Watch Tower at the time. What, your pal Oracle not smart enough?
Atom and Steel? Other possibilities are Mr. Terrific, J'onn (but he wasn't able to stop the cannon from being hacked so I doubt he is a one of the two) and Stripe. But I am positive it was Atom and Steel Batman was talking about.

[FALLEN ELDOR]

In regard to the non-casualties issue, I can understand why it was required to have a line like that, but I the same time, in my own personal perspective of the story, I choose to ignore it. I'll acknowledge the fact that it was said, so I won't argue about it like it wasn't said, but in my own private universe, Lex Luthor intentionally caused a big space cannon to go off that killed untold score of civillians and put the blame on the Justice League. I like to think of it as some sort of director's cut :D



look at it this way. How does flash know that people won't die later on arrival at the hospital? his statement is based on what exactly? I'm just gonna assume he was wrong and that there is in fact a civilian death toll.

[Steven C]

I dont know if this has been addressed or not, but is Luthor dead now?

Lets see, Brainiac and Luthor were coexisting in his body, at the end of the episode, machine parts came out of Luthor, he ripped of his stomach skin to reveal braniac, Luthor's legs are robotic now. So does this mean that Luthor will die from the massive shock to his system as well as the massive blood lost?

[Dens Maris]

Doubtful. Let's consider a few things here:

1) Luthor's kryptonite-induced cancer has not only retreated, but has been erased.
2) Luthor is suddenly in optimum physical condition ("you have the body of a twenty-year-old" in the words of Hamilton), and has been granted super-strength
3) Brainiac looks like he's had a lot of time to build himself up inside Luthor.

If Brainiac is responsible for the first two circumstances, then he clearly does not want Luthor dead, and I'm willing to bet he's played around with Luthor's physique enough so that breaking out didn't hit anything vital. Whether he left Luthor's consciousness intact...well, we'll have to wait for Saturday.

[Steven C]

Doubtful. Let's consider a few things here:

1) Luthor's kryptonite-induced cancer has not only retreated, but has been erased.
2) Luthor is suddenly in optimum physical condition ("you have the body of a twenty-year-old" in the words of Hamilton), and has been granted super-strength
3) Brainiac looks like he's had a lot of time to build himself up inside Luthor.

If Brainiac is responsible for the first two circumstances, then he clearly does not want Luthor dead, and I'm willing to bet he's played around with Luthor's physique enough so that breaking out didn't hit anything vital. Whether he left Luthor's consciousness intact...well, we'll have to wait for Saturday.I see your point, but thats stretching it a bit there....

1 -Brainiac cured Luthor because he was inside him. If Luthor dies from cancer, so does Brainiac.
2 - Luthor gets super strength, okay so hes super powered now so he can fight off the JLU or anyone else. Brainiac knows what can happen to Luthor during the time and if he dies/gets hurt he wont be around to finish Amazo.
3- This is a good one. Luthor has big metal parts sticking out of his skin. He has no stomach skin now, no more flesh legs, no more hands. Basically parts of his body has been torn off. Luthor should die, or hes half robotic now (which is a big cop out)

Also did Luthor know that Brainiac was inside him? Lets just say that Luthor finished Amazo and Brainiac transfered his programming into the Amazo body. Whats happens to Luthor? Does he know hes half robot now?

Like people said in this thread the Brainiac/Luthor as the big bad guy is the easy way out. I hope next week when the JLU and the Govt stop Brainiac, Luthor isnt just back to normal in jail or something.

[maxnugget]

I don't care whether Flash said there were casualties or not. Did you SEE the way those cars went flying off the highway ramp? Whoever's in those cars is dead, people don't survive things like that.

Also, unless all those buildings that we saw getting ravaged by the explosion were abandoned, there's no doubt a death toll there too.

[maxnugget]

In the shot after the mother-with-child says "I'll take my chances" and walks away with 3-4 other people, did anyone notice that the one guy in that shot looked just like one of the three aliens-disguised-as-humans from the opening scene of "Secret Origins"?

He even did a kind of suspicious-looking glare at the camera for a moment just like he did in Secret Origins. And he's even wearing the same clothes! (minus the lab coat)

http://www.sisselman.com/batman/alien-origins.jpg
Alien from "Secret Origins"

http://www.sisselman.com/batman/alien-flashpoint.jpg
Alien (?) from "Flashpoint"

[Knight]

Ya know, to put it warmly, it would be kind and appreciative (I shouldn't forget convenient) if any members of the JLU staff who are reading this right now could just tell us to which two people Batman was referring. I'm guessing they don't even know; they just put that line in there to get people talkin' about it - and it worked pretty well actually. Batman says there are two people, besides Luthor, who could access the Watch Tower and fire the projectile remotely, yet those two people were on the Watch Tower at the time. What, your pal Oracle not smart enough? Somehow I doubt the writing staff will calrify this. For now people will have to think what they think and im going to stick with Steel and Atom since they are the two most technically inclined Leaguer's and were in charge of trying to get the Watchtowers power back up.

Also there isnt a Oracle in the animated universe.

[maczero]

In the shot after the mother-with-child says "I'll take my chances" and walks away with 3-4 other people, did anyone notice that the one guy in that shot looked just like one of the three aliens-disguised-as-humans from the opening scene of "Secret Origins"?

He even did a kind of suspicious-looking glare at the camera for a moment just like he did in Secret Origins. And he's even wearing the same clothes! (minus the lab coat)

http://www.sisselman.com/batman/alien-origins.jpg
Alien from "Secret Origins"

http://www.sisselman.com/batman/alien-flashpoint.jpg
Alien (?) from "Flashpoint"You're right but I don't think this is anything more than re-using a character design. That suspicous glare you mentioned is directed at Flash and the other heroes. In fact, several of the people in that shot all had similar looks on their faces after it was revealed the blast came from the watchtower. See how the girl next to him also looks like she's pretty pissed at the League. BTW, I wonder if it's his daughter or is it his significant other. If the latter is true, then not bad for a bald, fat, middle-aged guy.:anime:

[maxnugget]

You're right but I don't think this is anything more than re-using a character design. That suspicous glare you mentioned is directed at Flash and the other heroes.

Or maybe the remaining white martians are laying low after their defeat four seasons ago. It's tough being a white martian on Earth these days. :)

[Knight]

Or maybe the remaining white martians are laying low after their defeat four seasons ago. It's tough being a white martian on Earth these days. :)
The Invaders from Secret Origins were never said to be white martians if I recall. Although I guess they could be considered the animated equivalent. But I think I will go with reused character sheet and not that thats a alien from the first ep of the series.

Also not to rain on the greatness of this ep, but I got to thinking wouldn't it have made more sense for Cadmus to have launched nukes at the Watchtower and blow it up instead of missiles filled with Ultimen and Galatea who are essentially trying to do the same thing? The Watchtower was both powerless and defenseless against attack and a very easily target. I know such a scenario would take away from the overall melee ness of the ep but it seems far more logical since the thing is in space you don't have to worry about a lot of fallout of high civilian casualties.

[The Dark Knight]

Also not to rain on the greatness of this ep, but I got to thinking wouldn't it have made more sense for Cadmus to have launched nukes at the Watchtower and blow it up instead of missiles filled with Ultimen and Galatea who are essentially trying to do the same thing?That might have resulted in the massive, fusion powered space station falling out of orbit and colliding with Earth. Besides, it's not exactly easy to get authorization to launch nuclear weapons. Cadmus probably didn't have to ask for permission to use their own superhero army.

[Quintessence]

I got to thinking wouldn't it have made more sense for Cadmus to have launched nukes at the Watchtower and blow it up instead of missiles filled with Ultimen and Galatea who are essentially trying to do the same thing


That might have resulted in the massive, fusion powered space station falling out of orbit and colliding with Earth. Besides, it's not exactly easy to get authorization to launch nuclear weapons. Cadmus probably didn't have to ask for permission to use their own superhero army.
Not only that, but a waste of millions and millions of dollars that they used to create the Ultimen and Galatea. That and if they are going to wipe out the JLU, they wouldn't be wiping out all the evil villians that forced the creation of the JLU. They needed to see if what they had could step up to the challenge of defending the world once they got rid of the JLU

[Alex Weitzman]

To add to the reasons why it was better that Cadmus used Galatea and the Ultimen than nuclear weapons, consider that it is superpowered individuals that are the real currency in the conflict between Cadmus and the League. Like the Question said, it's a superpowered arms race, which makes superpowered the metaphorical equivalent of nuclear weapons. By Panic in the Sky using them to attack the Watchtower, it essentially is the equivalent of the United States during the Cold War deciding to send a huge payload of warheads into Moscow.

[Knight]

That might have resulted in the massive, fusion powered space station falling out of orbit and colliding with Earth. So it wouldnt have done that if Galatea had succeded in destroying the reactor?
Besides, it's not exactly easy to get authorization to launch nuclear weapons. Cadmus probably didn't have to ask for permission to use their own superhero army. I can possibly live with that theory.

[DerekPowers]

Broadcast Standards and Practices. There's a department like this at every network that makes sure that each episode's contents are appropriate to their internal standards, as well as to the rating that each series gets. It's slightly different for each network, for instance Kids WB is generally more strict about "fantasy violence" than Cartoon Network.

And the line did add something: the assurance to every viewer that no innocents were killed. IIRC, I tried to be cute about it first draft, by having Waller say no one was harmed (but she was only answering a specific question about Cadmus personnel). I thought we could skate on that but I didn't get away with it. They wanted to be crystal clear: no one was injured.
If that was the case then why stage the fall-out of the laser so dramatically? Why show such devestation to the surrounding area, and then show the rescue effort which reminded me an awefull lot of how it was here in NY after 9-11. If you cant show 'mass murder' or whatever, then why try to have your cake and eat it too? again, i hope i dont offend anyone, but when i watch a show, things like that bug me beyond belief.

Couldnt 'Cadmus headquarters' have been located in a remote area outside the city, like we've so often seen in the dcau (those desert or remote areas surrounding cities), and the laser could have destroyed it after it was abandoned. The people in the city could still have observed the 'mushroom cloud' and felt some shocks, sort of like in "Apocolipps...Now! part 1", but the no casulties thing would be MUCH more believable, and not so hard to swallow. and that would still alarm the people about the JLU, you know.

I mean, you had whole buildings falling over in the city for crying out loud. If you know you cant have anyone die, then why the falling buildings? why all the dramatics? the line on the news about the shockwaves being felt all the way to japan? it just gets so cheapened by those forced lines that everyone is okay. I personally would have prefered a more believable scenerio over those overly dramatic scenes, and the extra time could have been spent showing more between Bats and Waller, or more of the time could have been used showing why and how Cadmus evacuated the facility, just to make it more believable. the idea of a security breach means automatic evacuation is believable for a gov facility, but more emphasis on that would make it more clear. Even showing if Luthor MEANT to fire the canon when people were in the facility would be cool. I like to think he wanted as much death as possible, but from the way things played out and from what was shown, your left with every reason to believe the opposite.

anyway, you know, i always have to give my 2 cents :p , and despite the censor issues and cadmus cop-out concerns i had w/ the last 2 eps, i still very much enjoyed them, and thank you for making, what is, imo, the best show on tv right now, animated or otherwise. and i totally know i'm going to be blown away with the next 2 eps, which i just cant wait for. peace.

[maxnugget]

Besides, it's not exactly easy to get authorization to launch nuclear weapons. Cadmus probably didn't have to ask for permission to use their own superhero army.

Right...it's not like Cadmus can just launch nuclear weapons whenever they want. I hear it's tough getting authorization to line them with kryptonite too...

[Knight]

Right...it's not like Cadmus can just launch nuclear weapons whenever they want. I hear it's tough getting authorization to line them with kryptonite too...Forgot about that one. Yeah Cadmus has launched nukes before without much trouble. So authorization doesnt seem to be a problem. They should have easily been able to blow up the Watchtower and save the manpower.

[Quintessence]

I still feel my reason is plausible.

[Supernovametalstar]

Brainiac. Brainiac? I feel very underwhelmed. If it were Darkseid, then maybe I'd like it, but Brainiac? That feels so...cheap for some reason.

[Wabbit Wuv]

OMG! I LOVE Batman in this episode!
Batsy: I'm a part-timer, remeber?
Diana: Actually, he took it better than I thought
:anime:
Commander: Where's Batman?
Flash: He's running late. You know, the Batmobile lost a wheel. The Joker got away.
LOL :D

YAY BATMAN!

BTW nice kickbutt action between Supergirl and Galatea!

[The Dark Knight]

Right...it's not like Cadmus can just launch nuclear weapons whenever they want. I hear it's tough getting authorization to line them with kryptonite too...Heh, that one slipped my mind. Of course, there's always a healthy supply of kryptonite weapons just lying around so I don't think anyone noticed Cadmus taking one. ;)

It's possible that they feared the Justice League might notice the missiles and attempt to stop them in mid flight, causing a devastating nuclear detonation in Earth's atmosphere. It's also possible that the primary mission was to attempt to take control of the Watchtower and only destroy it as a last resort (even though Galatea appeared to be a little trigger happy). It's also easier to cover up. The public wouldn't look too kindly on the government taking out the Justice League, but an explosion caused by the fusion reactor overloading can be attributed to an accident. Because it was never explicitly stated on the show the best we can manage is vague speculation, but it's not so absurd to not want to launch a barrage of nukes at the Justice League Watchtower that it should in any way detract from the episode.

[Style]

Right. Because Darkseid has never attacked Earth before and never endangered the entire universe, Cadmus would just be dying to work with him.

It's one thing to work with Luthor, but friggin' Darkseid? You'd have to be nuts. I've made my opinion on the Braniac thing clear, but I'm still glad they didn't use Darkseid in the arc. That would have been the ultimate in out of left field, fan-appeasing, inappropriate to the plot stupidity. Luthor+Braniac as the evil behind Cadmus is still a waaaaaaaaay better turn out than Darkseid behind Cadmus.