"Fantastic Four" Talkback (Spoilers) [Archive]

Stu

07-08-2005, 09:00 AM

Prepare For The Fantastic!

http://marvel.toonzone.net/teaserposter.jpg

"It's Clobberin' time!" - The Thing

Release Date: July 8th 2005
Studio: 20th Century Fox
Director: Tim Story
Screenwriter: Michael France, Mark Frost
Starring: Michael Chiklis, Ioan Gruffudd, Chris Evans, Jessica Alba, Julian McMahon, Maria Menounos, Kerry Washington, Hamish Linklater
Genre: Action, Sci-Fi
MPAA Rating: PG-13
Related Discussion (Comics): Fantastic Four: Getting to Know the Comics (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=144304)
Related Discussion (Cartoons): Fantastic Four: From the Big Screen to the Animated Small Screen (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=144878)
Official Website: www.fantasticfourmovie.com (http://www.fantasticfourmovie.com/flash_index.html)

Plot Summary: Marvel's first family of comic superheroes takes the world by storm as the longest running comic book series in history comes to the big screen. The Fantastic Four are: Reed Richards / Mr. Fantastic, who can elongate his body; Susan Storm / Invisible Woman, who not only can become invisible at will but can render other objects invisible; Johnny Storm / Human Torch, who can shoot fire from his finger tips and bend flame; and Ben Grimm / The Thing, a hideously misshapen monster with superhuman strength. Together, they battle the evil Doctor Doom.

Comments?

Hades

07-08-2005, 09:04 AM

Personally, I do not care how many negative reviews this has been getting, I'm still going to see it tomorrow. It is unfortunate that all the reviews I read have the need to compare it to Spider-Man or Batman.

BatKid

07-08-2005, 10:03 AM

The Electric Knight

07-08-2005, 10:12 AM

Went and saw it today, and I wasn't expecting much. I got pretty much what I expected. It certainly wasn't horrible, but it definately was a bad attempt at translating the comic, and had big, glaring faults that you just couldn't help but notice. Some of it was fun.

What really irked me was the exposition. Don't get me wrong - I love exposition (Batman Begins had a tonne of it and it worked). But the exposition in this film is contrived, one-dimensional and boring, going far longer than it needed to. None of the characters were strong enough to pull off such backstory and such a long origin tale. The first time we see them truly work as a team is at the end, and it's really a case of "was that all?".

What I liked:

The costumes - both for F4 and Doom. Shame they weren't used enough.
Johnny Storm. As annoying as he became at times, his character was easily the strongest. At the same time however, his powers were underused.
What I didn't like:

Doom. Utterly unconvincing, and a serious Norman Osborne clone (a bad one at that).
The dialogue/script. Really poor conversations, ear-damaging one liners.
Acting. All of it was bland, sometimes cringeworthy. And I'd sooner fault the weak dialogue and script rather than the actors for this.
Visually, it was like a trip back to the early 90s/late 80s, in a bad way. Especially for the Thing. I know many were anti-CGI, pro-Man-in-Suit, but it really looked jarring. These days CGI can be fantastic, I would have rather seen it than this.
The product placement. Oh dear, this was bad - particularly in the one scene where Johnny is talking with the media and giving the four their names.
This was kind of like a movie that didn't know what it wanted to be when it grew up, so it tried to emulate many things from other comic book movies, doing each with very poor effort and with a lack of skills or talent. Forgettable, but not entirely unforgivable, in ways Daredevil, Catwoman and Batman & Robin were.

Spongebrain2.0

07-08-2005, 01:29 PM

Seeing it tonight....I can't wait to see some possible Jessica Alba skin:D

Sigma

07-08-2005, 02:27 PM

Well I have a few free tickets so I will be seeing it tonight. I think I will have fun with it, but I will not take it seriously and see it as more of a parody of the Fantastic Four.

Lord Dalek

07-08-2005, 03:28 PM

Looks like the bad buzz was right.

ZorBrak

07-08-2005, 04:03 PM

I haven't seen it. I am going to...and I think it will be fun. I don't give 2 craps on a driveway what these critics say. I tend to find most of them less-than-free-thinking. Most of them thrive on trends, cliches, pathetic Oscar seeking pitches, and other elements of unoriginality. Don't forget over-rated, over-casted faces.

None of them can go into a movie like this and so "Okay. FF is an old, fun, campy comic that never took itself in the veign of the somewhat adult toned X-Men, or dramatic Spider-Man. It has no dark overtones, and never has. It's like the old Batman Spoof. This should be like Batman and Robin...should have been...without the gay undertones. About a year ago Disney made a knockoff of this idea and it was praised like every other 3D film because it kept kids quiet and was in 3D....Wooooooooooooooowie. My brain make me smart."

(Anyone ever notice those stupid 3d knock-off movies are always about finding/rescuing/or returning a child? ...such original writing)

The main gripe I keep hearing from these "well-informed-high-brow...critics" is ..."didn't we see this in The Incredibles?" Here is my answer for you moron critics who are about as informed as a rock and possess the attention spans of toddlers....The Incredibles was a parody of the Fantastic Four comic. Which is nearly half a century old. Idiots. FF was first. I am going to hope it is campy, simple in plot, high in humor, heavy in the kind of action that wows a 12 year old, and maybe slightly serious towards the end. I think it will be exactly that. I'll reserver judgement until I see it of course...but I think this is just another case of critics revealing how stupid the human race is on a whole. Though...Zorbrak has made mistakes...........from time to time. Oh dear oh dear.

ManicWebb

07-08-2005, 04:32 PM

The main gripe I keep hearing from these "well-informed-high-brow...critics" is ..."didn't we see this in The Incredibles?" Here is my answer for you moron critics who are about as informed as a rock and possess the attention spans of toddlers....The Incredibles was a parody of the Fantastic Four comic. Which is nearly half a century old. Idiots. FF was first. I am going to hope it is campy, simple in plot, high in humor, heavy in the kind of action that wows a 12 year old, and maybe slightly serious towards the end. I think it will be exactly that. I'll reserver judgement until I see it of course...but I think this is just another case of critics revealing how stupid the human race is on a whole. Though...Zorbrak has made mistakes...........from time to time. Oh dear oh dear.
What gets me about a lot of these negative reviews is that they keep saying stuff like "it's been done before," although not necessarily in regards to The Incredibles. Roger Ebert actually said, and I quote, "you see one fire truck saved from falling off a bridge, you've seen them all." Then again, this is the guy who hated Spider-Man and X-Men, and called X2 dumb. So it's not like I see eye-to-eye with the guy.

My point is that when the latest comic book film is based off of one of Marvel's oldest, it's gonna feel like you're watching something that's been done before-- especially when Dr. Doom is basically turned into Norman Osborn. I think I read another review that basically said this movie would've been fine if it had come out before 2000, when the ante of comic-films had been upped.

rggkjg1

07-08-2005, 04:40 PM

fantastic four was fantastic. i really thought this would be a bad movie, but i think the portrayal of the characters were done right. i was really glad to see more of an emphasis on each member of the fantastic four about their specific power and how it affects their life, rather than big action sequences. although it seemed like most of the spotlight was on the thing, i think every one else got a fair share of screen time. i am also glad that dr doom's latveria past was not left out, since i haven't heard or read about any indication that anything about latveria would be in this movie. i really hope to see this movie again. before i saw the movie with my negative feelings twards it, i knew 2 things would be good about this movie:

1. ioan gruffudd as reed richards. i had a feeling he would be good as mr.fantastic, i never seen any of this other works but i just had a feeling about him. after seeing the movie, ioan gruffudd is reed richards.

2. stan lee. yep, the best stan lee cameo. mr. lee plays a mail man and welcomes the team to the baxter building. and he speaks too!

i am looking forward to future fantastic four movies, i would like there to be a "trilogy" but i think we're going to have to see box office returns and what the critics say. one thing i do want if there is a sequel, galactus.

The Electric Knight

07-08-2005, 04:52 PM

About a year ago Disney made a knockoff of this idea and it was praised like every other 3D film because it kept kids quiet and was in 3D....Wooooooooooooooowie. My brain make me smart.
Reducing The Incredibles to simply a "knockoff 3d kids movie" is a major disservice to that film. It was much much more. Yes, it took the Fantastic Four as a huge inspiration - but it went into its own themes, created its own strong characters, and was far more adult, sophisticated and worthy of attention than this new Fantastic Four film. Not because it happened to come before a Fantastic Four movie.

(Anyone ever notice those stupid 3d knock-off movies are always about finding/rescuing/or returning a child? ...such original writing)Have you seen The Incredibles? Once again, it is so much more than that.

The Incredibles was a parody of the Fantastic Four comic. Which is nearly half a century old. Idiots. FF was first.
A parody makes fun of and sends up another film. The Incredibles didn't do that. If anything, it was an homage to the Fantastic Four, who Brad Bird obviously admired growing up. He then mixed it with his own experiences of family, and his own interests and ideas.

Wow. A lot of critic hate. But in this case, I feel that most of them are right (yes, except for uninformed ones who thought The Incredibles was first. But comparisons are welcome - because frankly, the imitator surpassed the teacher).

Yes, Fantastic Four is campy. But this movie is scared to be too campy (understandably), and something really gets lost in translation.

Hades

07-08-2005, 07:46 PM

The comparison to Batman isn't fair, but for Spider-Man, I think so. I did plan on seeing this, but man this has been getting some horrid reviews. I didn't expect characterization or a mind blowing plot, but some nice sfx and good fun. But even THEN, the reviews said it failed in that. So I don't know....
So you are letting bad reviews stop you? Why?

Anyway, I hope the 100 minute running time does not hurt the movie, because it did so with X-Men and even Elektra (which might have been better had it actually been 45 minutes longer).

SSJPabs

07-08-2005, 08:09 PM

Speaking as someone who knows only a little about the Fantastic 4, the choices of the actors (aside from Chikliss and McMahon) was kind of weak. The ads and all the infor I could find about the movie itself seemed kind of goofy and pointless and the effects seemed more at home in the Incredibles than in a live-action film.

I haven't seen it, but these are the impressions of someone who is I think a little closer to the mainstream when it comes to comic book movies. Both my gf and I knew this one was going to tank. Maybe we'll be proved right.

Andrew T. Hingson

07-08-2005, 08:09 PM

Well it wasn't "fantastic" more like... "above average". I liked the costumes and while Jonny got annoying sometimes but he was always the most entertaining.

Actually I'm glad they made Ben a man-in-suit (thinks of Duck Dodgers... LOL) because I thought Reed's CGI stretch looked really REALLY fake. Jonny's fire was pretty realistic looking and so was Sue's invisible and a shield powers.

Doom was rather dissapointing but an interesting take on the character's power.

I think they hinted that Ben can't turn off his power because he was hit by the radition more than the others were.

And apparently the sheilds "did nothing" so it wouldn't have mattered if they were all behind them.

I was a bit surprised that Alicia was black in this version. Then again Sue Storm is usually distinctively white and it was hard to believe Jonny and her were directly related. Culture changes and diversity always seem... added on to be PC. But it wasn't bothersome in this case just unexpected.

I digged Ben's shoes at the end. Those were awesome.

The last fight didn't seem very epic at all. It had some nice affects though.

But let me tell ya... Jessica Alba in her skivies was worth the price of admition. :anime:

Tobias

07-08-2005, 08:36 PM

Chris Evans and Micheal Chiklis were PERFECT as Johnny and Ben. Sue, Reed, and Doom, however, were VERY boring, even after gaining their powers.

I liked the movie, but Doom just wasn't... Doom in this movie. Maybe in a future sequel we'll see the Doom we all know and hate, this this just wasn't it.

I say we get someone with an attitude to replace Shawn Ashmore as Iceman, and do an Iceman vs. Human Torch movie.

JLApe

07-08-2005, 09:30 PM

I was a bit surprised that Alicia was black in this version.Cast member info has been out from the start. I even pointed it out last year on the FF movie news thread (African-American Kerry Washington played Caucasian Alicia), but everyone seemed hung up solely on the four FF members apparantly to the exclusion of all else.

I tend to find most of them less-than-free-thinking. Most of them thrive on trends, cliches, pathetic Oscar seeking pitches, and other elements of unoriginality. Don't forget over-rated, over-casted faces.Sounds more like the stereotype of critics than critics themselves. But there is also the stereotype comic book fan griping retentively that others can mock.

Space Cadet

07-08-2005, 10:06 PM

But let me tell ya... Jessica Alba in her skivies was worth the price of admition. :anime:
Yeah, I loved that part. That scene caught me off guard, but I'm not complaining.:D

I thought the movie was above average. It wasn't as good as Batman Begins, but then it wasn't trying to be the best superhero movie ever made. I agree with Washington Post movie critic Stephen Hunter and that the best parts of the film were the character development between the four. They acted like a disfunctional family and they weren't superheroes in the sense that they understood their powers. Rather, they didn't really understand them until the end of the film.

I didn't like most of the one-liners in the film. It worked for Spider-Man 2, but it didn't work here.

I did like Michael Chiklis as The Thing, Chris Evans as Johnny Storm and Jessica Alba as Sue Storm. Ioan Gruffield was alright as Mr. Fantastic but it could have been better.

It's clear that Marvel wants a sequel when you look at the end. I hope it does get a sequel and improvements can be made.

BatKid

07-08-2005, 10:14 PM

So you are letting bad reviews stop you? Why? I can handle a good few of negative reviews. But when there's 80% of the people saying it far from fantastic, it usually means something. I was already apprehensive of this movie since last year, so it's not like I was really excited for it.

Ruffian

07-08-2005, 10:15 PM

Saw this on Tuesday at a free screening and I liked it. Compared to the other Marvel films I definitely like it better than the first X-Men movie, but not as much as Spider-Man.

The story was strictly origin, nothing fancy and nothing new. I liked how it was kept simple and balanced with characterization. I really got a good feel for each character's personality and the cast had great chemistry. The humor was good. I was afraid when I heard it would have more comedy than the other Marvel films, which made me think Jim Carrey-like comedy. It wasn't that at all, it was just humor the same jokes that fans have been poking at the FF for years. It was done with good fun and I had a good time.

Didn't know the running time for this movie and a bit surprised it was only 100 min. It felt longer.

The Penguin

07-08-2005, 11:11 PM

Hades

07-08-2005, 11:19 PM

With all the talk about the negative reviews this movie has received, I just want to point that I saw "Today" on NBC this morning and their movie critic, Gene Shalit, love it. He said it was the best comic book movie yet and mentioned Spider-Man 2 and Batman Begins when he said it. I haven't seen it yet so I don't know if anyone will agree with him, he's only one guy with a crazy mustache, but he's a long-time critic and ought to know a thing or two about movies.
There is always going to be someone who will claim that every newest comic movie is the "Best Comic Movie Ever." It is like those "Best Comedy of the Year" things they give out a comedy movie every 3 months.

Anyway, I need to ask, is there anything after the credits?

Batkid: I guess since you were never really looking forward to this movie in the first place, then the negative reviews would turn you off. I had thought you were dying to see this movie all year, and then just decided not to because some critics didn't like it.

The Penguin

07-08-2005, 11:21 PM

There is always going to be someone who will claim that every newest comic movie is the "Best Comic Movie Ever." It is like those "Best Comedy of the Year" things they give out a comedy movie every 3 months.True, but Gene Shalit means a little more as a critic than say the movie guy for a large market CBS afflilate.

Spongebrain2.0

07-08-2005, 11:42 PM

Chaos Lord

07-08-2005, 11:55 PM

I gave this movie four stars. I would have given it 4 and 1/2 but Batman Begins holds that spot in my heart. Having seen all the new marvel films, save Punisher and Electra, I have to say that this is the best. Now granted, I'm not a huge comic fan. What I know comes from TV and my own research into the comic on the internet. But what I saw is good. I like the interaction betwenn the characters, both before and after. It seemed to give them depth and made me care more about them, espeially the Thing. Also, I feel that the long origin is a good thing, seeing as this is not one of the Marvel properties that people know.

I also don't think it is right to compair Doom to Norman Osborne. To me Osborne was a good person who went bad do to mind altering chemicals. Where as Doom was always evil and the accident just allowed him to get away with more. As for the simularites between the two men's actions in reguards to certain financial matters. There was only two ways to handle it, either give in or do some bodily harm. And let's face it, bodily harm is so much cooler.:D

KuwabaraTheMan

07-08-2005, 11:58 PM

Hurricane V1

07-09-2005, 12:37 AM

I despise this movie. It seemed like the director had a few scenes he envisioned and everything else in between was poorly made and pieced together. I may criticize some movies, but this movie is one I'm not ashamed to totally pick apart. It's not hard, it was already in pieces.

SPOILERS, SPOILERS, oh man the juicy yet rotten SPOILERS

Minor nitpick, Mr Fantastic's face stretched more in gross ways than his limbs did.

Then there's the humor. Pretty much the humor between Thing and the Human Torch was actually entertaining. Everything else was pretty, for the lack of a more precise term, lame. Well that's my opinion. The humor made this movie seem more like Batman '66 than any other superhero movie I've seen.

The Human Torch is a jackass and a murderer. Seriously, he was choosen to pilot the spaceship during the cosmic experiment but when Reed later tries to explain to him that heating his body up to 4000K would fry Earth's atmosphere he has a hard time catching on to that fact. "Supernova. Bad thing. Gotcha!" Then when he's trying to lead away that heat seeking missile like in the promos, he loses it by lighting a garbage barge on fire and having the missile hit it. If I'm not mistaken, barges have a person driving/piloting them, whatever the term is.

Doctor Doom was a very weak character. I don't care what his comic book origins are, as I'm not a faithful Fantastic Four fan, but man. His acting was bad and he was never intimidating. Then again the acting and the dialouge was pretty weak throughout. I don't recall an explanation as to why he wanted to be hit by the same cosmic radiation that blasted the four. Which brings me to my next nitpick..

Ben cures himself in Mr Fantastic's machine while Doom opens the reactor to soak up the cosmic radiation. Yet ten minutes later, in order to save Reed, he transforms back into the Thing. HOW? Doom broke open the reactor, Ben wouldn't have any idea how to operate that machine, and finally, it took him three days after the spaceship incident to transform into Thing yet it only took ten minutes to change back.

The absolute worse part was the four using their powers for the first time in public. The Thing causes a traffic accident in front of hundreds of people like a dimwit yet the citizens later cheered him. Even though he saved the firemen in the end, people fear freaks with power, especially when they recently witness the damage they can do. The Torch jumping in the way of the explosion to save the little girl felt really forced considering how little time was dedicated to focusing on that part. Plus the Invisible Girl contained the explosion in a bubble, how could the little girl have survived if the fire was swirling around in all directions? Then there's the part where Reed tells Sue to turn invisible to reach the front of the crowd. The three are shown clearly pushing their way to the front of a less than dense crowd while Sue is invisible and naked. How does turning invisible without turning your partners invisible help get them through a crowd? Just an excuse to show Alba in her bra and panties, but it wasn't a long full body shot anyway, and the upper body shot was blocked by all her hair. The previews of Into the Blue made her look more appealing.

Then there's the final showdown. It was so dull and lacking suspense. You simply have to see it to forget it. Luckily, I only paid 50 cents to see the movie. But I also paid for the popcorn, Nestle Crunch and the giant Sprite for my friends and me. We could've stayed home and watched Xmen and ate cheap Pizza bites.

ManicWebb

07-09-2005, 12:45 AM

Joker85

07-09-2005, 12:58 AM

Well, I liked it! I've never read a Fantastic 4 comic in my life and maybe that was an advantage, I dunno, but I really enjoyed it. Perfect? No, but I don't think it tried to be. It was just a really fun comic book movie. I particularly enjoyed Michael Chiklis' performance as 'The Thing'. The other 3 were great as well. I agree that Dr. Doom was kinda weak, and more than once I was reminded of Norman Osborne, but that's a small nitpick. Great special effects, fun humor. Yes it was cheesy at times, but if done right that can be a good thing. I enjoyed it more than I did Hulk, Daredevil, or the first X-Men movie. I don't really understand the bad press it's getting, but I've never really let the critics stand in my way. I'd recommend it.

Mike Spartz

07-09-2005, 01:26 AM

Fantastic Four was a good movie. It wasn't the best comic book movie ever made, but it wasn't horrible either. The special effects were pretty cool (I especially like the Human Torch) and the script did a decent job of building the story and it's characters. Where it faltered was in both it's directing and acting departments.

The main cast was made up of four actors who each have made a career out of playing supporting characters in other movies and/or TV leads. Seeing them all together showed their one big flaw: none of them - yes not even the guy who played Johnny - could carry this movie on their own. Nobody really stood out. Maybe this is the fault of the director who doesn't seem to understand how to bring out the best in his actors, or maybe it's the actors themselves who lack charisma. Either way, all I can say is that the dialogue wasn't badly written - just poorly delivered. Alba was the worst of the bunch in my opinion. All her scenes had me cringing with annoyance. The scene with Von Doom on the space shuttle in particular was hard to watch. On the other hand, I throughly enjoyed the Thing. I thought the actor who played him did a wonderful job. He made Ben the most likeable of the four because he's the one you want to feel the most sorry for. Doom was very good too. I liked that the script allowed him a slow decent into madness and I found this approach a refreshing change to the one-dementional bad guys of the Spidey movies. When Doom is finally revealed in his mask, I got goosebumps.

Moving on, I didn't like the pace of the movie very much either. I thought it was too fast and didn't allow for much backstory on the formation of the cloud. This also became a problem in the action sequences. I'm watching the four heros use their powers to save a crisis and half the time I won't get a clear picture of whats happening because the camera will be jumping form hero to hero in annoying loops. The climatic battle between Doom and the FF was a disappointment too. I expect it to be bigger, and longer than what we actually got.

And maybe it's because I live there, but trying to make Vancouver look like New York didn't work for me. I could tell just by the size and shapes of the buildings that we weren't in the big apple. Furthermore, I found it amusing that they kept most of the second half of the movie in Reed's apartment - were they afraid of showing too much of the city?

But even with these faults, I still managed to enjoy this move. It wasn't bad, just average. It had a lot of fun moments like when Johnny pulled that prank with the shaving cream on Ben or when Ben made a ball out of Johnny's sports car. I think I'll be getting this movie on DVD just so I can savor Jessica Alba in blue spandex - but don't be surprised if there isn't a sequel because truthfuly this movie doesn't have anything thats really memorable.

3.5/5

Wounded_Dragon

07-09-2005, 02:16 AM

The "coming out in public" scene was a necessary hiccup. Honestly, it didn't make that much sense to me that Ben would run to his fiancee and then sit on the bridge after being rejected. But if he didn't, the four would've been stuck in a lab the whole movie trying to fix themselves.

This movie isn't meant to be an "epic" film. It revolves relationships and family. Victor trying to take what he can't take. The relationships amongst the Four.

The final battle wasn't meant to be epic, it was meant to be "standard"...except they hadn't established a standard yet. Reed grew a spine, Johnny listen to another, Ben and Sue supporting their family (Ben to Reed, Sue to Johnny).

I thought Alba was fine, acting wise (never thought I'd say that...). And well...I can see how super-nerd Reed might be a little off-balance around her. :evil:

Fantastic Four was never about "good vs. evil" (for me at least) but it was about family. I thought this film did a good job of working with that. I'm just not sure the general public will accept it of a "super hero" movie.

Sigma

07-09-2005, 02:39 AM

I just got back from seeing the film and while not "fantastic" it was really good and I enjoyed it much more than I did "War of the Worlds". Gene Shalit is out of his mind though if he truely thinks Fantastic Four is the best comic book film to date, Sin City is the best comic book film to date IMO and both X-Men films, both Spider-Man films, Batman, Batman Returns, and Batman Begins are all better than Fantastic Four, but like I said before it's still a really good movie.

The best thing about Fantastic Four is that it really doesn't seem to take itself all that seriously with the at times chessy dialouge and very dissapointing Dr. Doom. I say go see Fantastic Four and have a good time.

***1/2

Andrew T. Hingson

07-09-2005, 03:22 AM

Great movie. I really like the comics, and I thought the movie did a great job. Great comedy, a solid story, and a nice fight with Doom, too. Johnny and Ben stole the show. The respective uses of "Flame On!" and "It's Clobberin' Time" brough a grin to my face. Behind only the two Spider-Man films and Batman Begins in terms of comic book movies.
Our taste in fights are as different as our taste in music because IMO that fight with Doom was dissapointment. It hardly felt epic. Fighting in the street? Sheesh... Batman fought Scarecrow in an asylem and Raj on a speeding rail car, Spider-Man fought Green Goblin on around a bridge and then in a grave yard and he fought Doc Ock on top of a train and inside a lab, the X-Men fought in an old military complex and so on... They fought Doom inside his building for a very short time (that was where the bulk of the fight should have been IMO) and then in the middle of an intersection... honestly I thought them FF's saving people on the bridge was more interesting.

The way they defeated Doom was kinda neat but the fight was quite lack luster IMO. Nowhere near as good as many of the fights I've seen in comic book based movies. Heck... the TMNT fighting Shredder on a roof top was more interesting.

Nice to hear the classic lines indeed.

Oh yeah... I forgot one of my favorite parts in my previous post. The best Doom moment was when he blew a whole through a guy. Dang that was freak'n hardcore!

Wounded_Dragon

07-09-2005, 03:35 AM

Our taste in fights are as different as our taste in music because IMO that fight with Doom was dissapointment. It hardly felt epic. Fighting in the street?

The way they defeated Doom was kinda neat but the fight was quite lack luster IMO. Nowhere near as good as many of the fights I've seen in comic book based movies. Heck... the TMNT fighting Shredder on a roof top was more interesting.

It's not supposed to be epic. "Epic" would be out of place in this film. They were hardly a team before the fight. The fight gave birth to their teamwork and their usual strategy of having Reed think up a strategy.

ZorBrak

07-09-2005, 04:07 AM

*goes from message board to message board to read fan reviews*

Okay, why do most fans seem to love this movie, but the critics hate it to death? Even some non-fans like this movie. I can't help but wonder if it's an issue of movie critics who wouldn't like the comic if they read it.You hit the nail on the head. Same thing happened to the Punisher. The critics whined idiotic things like "HE'S A COMIC! COMICS HAVE SUPERHEROS! WHERE ARE THE PUNISHERS POWERS! ALL HE DOES IS KILL KILL KILL"...they completely miss the point.

Critics are almost all idiots.
They live on cliches and political correctness.
It sustains them.
They don't know how to just have fun nor do they study action films before viewing them, or the history of something like FF...they find it beneath them.
Did I mention they have inflated egos?
Critics nowadays do not understand "fun" films as films, but as mere childish distractions.
They're wanna be elitists.

Andrew T. Hingson

07-09-2005, 04:17 AM

It's not supposed to be epic. "Epic" would be out of place in this film. They were hardly a team before the fight. The fight gave birth to their teamwork and their usual strategy of having Reed think up a strategy.
"Epic" may have been the wrong wording but it was certainly nothing special besides a few nice affects.

JustJack

07-09-2005, 04:20 AM

For all the reason's movie's like The Hulk failed...Fantastic Four shines. Partly because half the point behind F4 is the jibber jabber...the talking, the connections, the fighting. In Hulk it came off as bland, whiney, over-dramatic, and girly....and that's all in a movie which should have been relentless destruction through and through. F4 shouldn't be relentless destruction...it needs the cornball, friendly, comical, and upbeat goings-on of a family, with the destruction and Doom sprinkled around. That's what Fantastic Four is about...and screw the nay-sayers, this movie nailed it through and through.

I recall as a child, reading Fantastic Four comics...and I dreamed of making a movie someday. I always assumed Dr. Doom would fit in there somewhere, but even as a kid I always knew the big battles would be between the team.

So, for me? My biggest "Likes" for this movie? Well...I've always been a huge Ghostbuster's fan, and I've spent the majority of my film-watching life trying to find something *new* to fill the void I get on those weekends that I don't want to watch Ghostbusters. Fantastic Four has the same "Ghostbuster" asthetic that I've always loved. Celebrities, but conflictions, and histories with affections...or something like that.

My biggest "dislike" is 100% Doom. I love the actor...and he did exactly as the script demanded of him. I don't want anyone to think I'm hating on Julian...he's a great actor, good guy, and has the perfect look of a classic villian. The problem is in the script. He would have worked a thousand times better as the overly-jealous rival of Reed Richards, from MIT, who just happens to be the Monarch of a 3rd world country. It could have worked...it coulda!!

Anyway...the Doom voice just wasn't there, for me. I think I prefered the metallic-mask voice, as opposed to just his normal voice amplified. The suit looked great, in my opinion...it's just a shame we saw so little of it. I don't mind his metal-mutation, since I read Ultimate Fantastic Four, and THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS. So...pfff...whatever. I didn't mind Doom, he just could've been done right.

My final words? Comic book geeks really shouldn't have a damn thing to whine about. I've read Fantastic Four since I was only 4. And the characters were handled just as well here as they've ever been in the comic. Your average movie-going public might not be so hot on it. It's a funny movie, but it's also fairly cornball...not too mention there are several history-references which aren't made clear enough in the movie, but that's a problem shared by many comic movies. For me? It was just what the doctor ordered...a steaming plate of sight's I've yet to ever see, some comedy, romance, and some extra cheese on the side.

Oh...and I love watching people shoot big holes through other people...

Hades

07-09-2005, 08:30 AM

Lorendiac

07-09-2005, 11:22 AM

I saw it, it was pretty damn good. People have to stop comparing this to "Batman Begins" or "Spider-Man", not every comic book movie can be all serious & dramatic. This film was a little bit more laid back, it wasn't an all-out comedy like those jerky fans have been whining about. It was pretty good, had some good humor, nice action, nice acting. I will be looking forward to the sequelI pretty much agree. My impression was that it didn't have nearly enough violence to be a real action movie, but not nearly enough jokes to be a true comedy movie either. It was a movie about some human beings who just happen to be coping with the experience of getting superpowers. I liked it, by and large - it kept me interested while I was watching it. I gave it 4 stars out of 5.

JLApe

07-09-2005, 02:15 PM

Okay, why do most fans seem to love this movie, but the critics hate it to death? Even some non-fans like this movie. I can't help but wonder if it's an issue of movie critics who wouldn't like the comic if they read it.Or maybe not everyone has seen the movie and haven't posted their views yet. You also have to exclude those who won't be seeing the movie. Because fans being fans are always the first to tell the world how much they like it. Isn't that why they are called "fans"? If they don't like the movie, they are not fans.

I believe that the critic-haters (ZorBrak especially) don't actually read reviews, or they only read one and based their their entire opinion on it. Or maybe they are easily aggravated by them (*koffMatt WilsonKoff*). Most of the people that post here are comic book fans. Most of the critics are not. My wife is not a comic book fan and she thinks the FF movie looks silly.

Speaking of which, what do non-fans think of the movie? So far, all the feedback (and lashings against critics) have been from comic book fans.

Spongebrain2.0

07-09-2005, 03:08 PM

So much for this bombing, it apparently made $20.8 million on Friday. It should be heading for a $55-65 million weekend.:D

ManicWebb

07-09-2005, 03:56 PM

Most of the people that post here are comic book fans. Most of the critics are not.

...

Speaking of which, what do non-fans think of the movie? So far, all the feedback (and lashings against critics) have been from comic book fans.
It's not just comic book fans. I go to sci-fi message boards where the subjects of comic books and comic book movies almost never come up. The reactions there have been fairly positive, as well.

Also, I went through RottenTomatoes earlier, and they're registering some 3.5/5 ratings as "rotten," even though that's equal to a 7/10 (and 6/10 or lower is rotten at their website).

Spider-Man

07-09-2005, 04:17 PM

Box Office Update from http://www.showbizdata.com/:

The summer slump may have finally taken a turn for the better, as 20th Century Fox's big screen version of the Marvel Comics superfamily Fantastic Four, directed by Tim Story, came out of the gate with an estimated $20.8 million opening day. That's just slightly less than Steven Spielberg's War of the Worlds's opening day last week, and also just under what the first X-Men movie made five years ago. Although it's too early to tell, it's likely that Fantastic Four will be Fox's third film in a row to top $50 million opening weekend after Star Wars Episode III and Mr. and Mrs. Smith.

The business brought in by Fantastic Four also helped yesterday become the third biggest Friday of the summer based on early estimates.

I'm seeing this movie tonight and I can't wait!

TheEvilClown

07-09-2005, 05:02 PM

I think people are giving this movie the bad reviews it doesn't deserve. At 1st I was hesident to even see this movie. The Trailers turned me off However I was a big comic book fan and I wanted to see just what they did with this film. So I went to see on Friday and I wonderer to myself after I came out of it was what was the big deal? The FIlm IMO was great and It deserves all the money it gets.

Bruce Kent

07-09-2005, 07:59 PM

So I walked in thinking the movie would be bad.. I mean those reviews.. and I was surprised. I thoroughly enjoyed the film. The characters were all great. I only cringed at Alba's acting a few times, and Doom was a bit dull but i thought all others were great, especially Johnny and Reed.

The action was very good and I'm certain that now that we have the Origin stuff out of the way that the franchise spawned will come into its own like the otehr films. I certainly enjoyed this one more than X-Men, I think... All I can say is the sequel will def be worth checking out.

MJC

07-09-2005, 11:13 PM

Patrick Bateman

07-10-2005, 12:18 AM

Hurricane V1

07-10-2005, 02:16 AM

Anyone who trashes this movie is a complete retard as the Fantastic Four is concerned. As a reader of the FF for 10 years, I *loved* the movie. Reed was spot-on, Ben was amazing, and Johnny... well, let's just say that Chris Evans is to Johnny Storm what Christopher Reeve is to Superman. He owns that character.

I thought that while Doom was screwed up, they made it work. All the basic elements that makes the FF so great were all there. I felt like I was watching the FF, not some adaptation of the idea.

Also, as a fan of Spider-Man comics as well, I felt like this movie kicked the Spidey movies' collective asses in terms of characterization and overall faithfulness. I mean, name five times in the Spider-Man movies when he acted like comic Spidey... I rest my case.
So I'm a complete retard for pointing out that Johnny is a killer and that Ben shouldn't have been the Thing by the end of the movie? I understand that you have to forget inconsistencies to enjoy some movies, but such strong words are a little uncalled for.

While my criticisms were about plotholes rather than sticking to the original material, I find it funny you and so many people are talking about the characterization being 'dead on'. I'm not a big Fantastic Four fan but I've read dozens of their comics. I don't recall Johnny ever being that big of a jackass. Meanwhile, the Spiderman movies were pretty darn good at getting the Peter Parker character down. His monologues weren't anything pulled directly from the pages. The screaming like a girl when falling, his love of science and technology, looking like a geek when trying to summon his webs and his clumsiness; that's all Peter Parker. The only thing he was missing was a bigger arsenal of wisecracks.

90'sCartoonMan

07-10-2005, 02:51 AM

My final words? Comic book geeks really shouldn't have a damn thing to whine about. I've read Fantastic Four since I was only 4. And the characters were handled just as well here as they've ever been in the comic.
I beg to differ. I think I'm going to agree with Hurricane, for the most part, on this one. I'm a comic book geek, been reading them for over a decade, and I've followed the Fantastic Four half my life. Their book was the second book I started reading regularly, and I'm much more protective of them than Spider-Man, Batman, or the X-Men.

Why? Because their characters are very hard to get down. The dynamics of the team, the history, the motivation. My problem with Gruffuld was his expressions didn't feel "Reed Richards" enough to me. His scientific curiousity was fine, but his guilt over Ben's transformation was overshadowed by his rekindled romance with Sue (and I didn't think their chemistry was great). Evans and Chiklis were good, although I wish they had a smoother transition from "I'm a monster" Ben to the "Ever-lovin' blue-eyed idol of millions" Thing at the end.

Then there's horribly miscast Jessica Alba who strips TWICE in this film. She just wasn't Sue Storm. To be fair, I liked her interaction with Ben, but I didn't feel the brother/sister thing with Johnny. Maybe if they talked more about how she practically had to raise him and that's why she feels so responsible for his actions.

Julian McMahon as Doom? Not a bad choice, but a poor role. Again, this isn't the character I know from the comics. Maybe I'll get into that later.

I'm not saying I hated the film, I'm just saying it wasn't as good a translation of the comic book as I've always wanted to see. This movie had the good and the bad. For every Stan Lee as Willie Lumpkin moment, there was a Thing gets his catchphrase from a toy. Come on, Ben Grimm has known about clobberin' time since college. Plus he didn't say "Sheesh" or "What a revoltin' development".

I don't mean to complain about every little thing, I just think this was slightly below average and I felt they could've done so much more considering how amazing the source material is.

Bruce Kent

07-10-2005, 03:02 AM

So I'm a complete retard for pointing out that Johnny is a killer and that Ben shouldn't have been the Thing by the end of the movie?
Did I miss Johnny killing someone?

Also, Ben made a conscious decision to save his friends instead of being selfish and staying normal... it was a sweet notion.. that great big heart of The Thing shined.

straw_hat

07-10-2005, 03:46 AM

Have you seen The Incredibles? Once again, it is so much more than that. He obviously hasn't since there was nothing in the main plot about having to save a kid or of it trying to be an all out parody of superheros. He's just being overly critical about a film he's never even laid eyes on just because critics compared both films. That type of thinking has always bugged me. They bash the critics opinions yet they get offended by them and go bash other films in the process and end up showing how uninformed they are.

As for me I might see this film but I don't have high hopes for it and yes it's a judgment I've had since I saw the trailer. Hell I haven’t even bothered to see what critics are saying about it yet.

TheEvilClown

07-10-2005, 03:54 AM

Did I miss Johnny killing someone?

Also, Ben made a conscious decision to save his friends instead of being selfish and staying normal... it was a sweet notion.. that great big heart of The Thing shined.
I think he was talking about When the Heat Seeking Missle was chasing Johnny and he let it hit that ship in the middle of the ocean. Of course we don't even know if anybody was on that ship to begin with.

DeathscytheVII

07-10-2005, 04:59 AM

My biggest "dislike" is 100% Doom. I love the actor...and he did exactly as the script demanded of him. I don't want anyone to think I'm hating on Julian...he's a great actor, good guy, and has the perfect look of a classic villian. The problem is in the script. He would have worked a thousand times better as the overly-jealous rival of Reed Richards, from MIT, who just happens to be the Monarch of a 3rd world country. It could have worked...it coulda!!I thought they made the jealousy known, when he gave reeds that "I want everyone to know that Richard Reeds came to me for help" line when Reed agreed to that 75% thing, and how he said he made MIT students look like junior high. His motivation was believable to me, he blames Reed for everything bad that happened to him since the disaster, and with his persona of always getting everything he wanted, he snapped under the pressure.

Personally, i thought Doom was well done. His costume was awesome :D as were his powers. The norman osbourne similarity was the only thing that bothered me about him.

Since i've never read the comics, can anyone here give me an example of the things that made Doom so cool in the comics that he wasn't in the movie? Just curious. Because this is the second time i've seen Doom at all, the first was in that Spiderman episode "Doom"

Shawn Hopkins

07-10-2005, 11:54 AM

It was okay, just kind of dull and uninvolving compared to Batman Begins, Spider-Man 2 and other top tier comic movies. I actually nodded off for a second right about the time of the "climactic" battle. The last movie I fell asleep in was Phantom Menace. I think it stayed a little on the pedestrian side and didn't try hare enough to recreate the energy, excitement and cosmic sense of wonder from the early comics.

As a comc book fan, I understand some changes were needed for the movie. About the only one I felt they changed too drastically was Doom. The electric powers were lame, and if he had to have powers they should have been more cosmic in scope. His motivation isn't a "take over the world" cliche, but for some reason his ill-defined revenge plot seems worse.

Ben and Johnny's subplots were great and I love their interaction. Alba gets very little to do, character-wise, except strip three times and rekindle her romance with Reed. At least Reed's character also had his rivalry with Doom and his guilt over what happened to Ben to work with.

And for a big-budget movie, this looked cheesy as all hell. There were times when you could see the Thing's foam costume wrinkle as he moved. And I think almost all of the CGI that didn't deal with Torch looked bad.

And there's awful product placement. At one point Torch is knocked into a flame-grilled Whopper billboard, sets it on fire, and the camera lingers on the adtastic result. In fact that whole fight scene takes place among a sea of billboards.

I don't see why people are so up in arms about black Alicia. Being white was not a defining part of who the comic character is. Give me blind, sensitive sculptor and I think you've got it.

James Harvey

07-10-2005, 12:17 PM

For any of those interested, Toon Zone has a review up for the big screen Fantastic Four flick!

Toon Zone Reviews "Fantastic Four" (http://news.toonzone.net/article.php?ID=4423)

And according to early box office numbers, Fantastic Four pulled in an estimated $56 million, easily giving it the top spot for the weekend!

Patrick Bateman

07-10-2005, 12:26 PM

So I'm a complete retard for pointing out that Johnny is a killer and that Ben shouldn't have been the Thing by the end of the movie? I understand that you have to forget inconsistencies to enjoy some movies, but such strong words are a little uncalled for.

While my criticisms were about plotholes rather than sticking to the original material, I find it funny you and so many people are talking about the characterization being 'dead on'. I'm not a big Fantastic Four fan but I've read dozens of their comics. I don't recall Johnny ever being that big of a jackass. Meanwhile, the Spiderman movies were pretty darn good at getting the Peter Parker character down. His monologues weren't anything pulled directly from the pages. The screaming like a girl when falling, his love of science and technology, looking like a geek when trying to summon his webs and his clumsiness; that's all Peter Parker. The only thing he was missing was a bigger arsenal of wisecracks. First off, Johnny has been that much of a jackass. He matured out of it over time, but this is him in his first days as Torch. He was dead-on.

Secondly, the Spider(HYPHON)Man movies, while characterizing Peter fairly well, absolutely SUCK when he puts on the costume. He has zero wit, zero sense of humor, and zero personality sans that of Peter Parker in tights.

Oh, and BTW, "I'm not a big Fantastic Four fan but..." pretty much nulls and voids your gripes about what is and isn't faithful to the Fantastic Four.

Do I seem hasty? Yes. I've grown very tired of the Spider-Man films getting such glowing praise while other, better Marvel films get crapped on by people who don't know what they're talking about. In terms of bringing the essence of the comic to life, FF slaughters all the other Marvel films, but no one sees it because they don't know the comics. I'll give you this - the Spider-Man movies are good movies, but horrible Spider-Man movies. Same for the X-Men. But Fantastic Four was a good Fantastic Four movie, and that's why I'm going to defend it to the hilt regardless of who I offend in the process.

In closing, I'd like to point out that when I said "complete retard as the FF is concerned" meant just that. I wasn't insulting the intelligence of anyone here, nor calling them retarded. I was saying that they were not in the know regarding the FF and the FF alone. I personally would be retarded as Namor or Ghost Rider are concerned. Why? Because if I tried talking about them, I wouldn't know what the hell I was talking about.

Spongebrain2.0

07-10-2005, 01:07 PM

This film was fine, it wasn't trying to be Spider-Man, it wasn't trying to be Batman Begins, it was trying to be its own movie, & for that, it is a great film.

Knight

07-10-2005, 01:13 PM

So does Doom atleast talk in third person? I keep hearing he sucked in the movie.

Bruce Kent

07-10-2005, 01:49 PM

I think he was talking about When the Heat Seeking Missle was chasing Johnny and he let it hit that ship in the middle of the ocean. Of course we don't even know if anybody was on that ship to begin with.
That was a garbage barge...

Wesyeed

07-10-2005, 06:58 PM

torch kills innocents? that's a shame.:sad:

JLApe

07-10-2005, 07:39 PM

Anyone who trashes this movie is a complete retard as the Fantastic Four is concerned. In all my years reading critics' reviews, they have never called anyone that "trashes this movie" or any other movie a "retard", complete or not. They are not be experts in their fields of interest, but neither are you.

As far as the movie is concerned. First off, I'm not surprised at the majority of negative reviews. It is sort of expected when you consider the masses of superhero flicks that have been coming out (and will be coming out in future), the last two have been colossal failures (Catwoman and Elektra).

The FF movie is decent, entertaining flick. Special effects are pretty good. The Human Torch is well-rendered, as is Invisible 'Girl' and Mister Fantastic. The reason why they went into space IMHO is not clear enough. On a screenwriting standpoint, it is simple and somewhat contrived (i.e. no surprises or twists, and basic characterization). It does not have much depth, except possibly for the Thing's character. Would love to see more of Alicia-Ben interaction. Not surprised with an African-American actress playing a Caucasian blind girl. That face has been out from the start. (Should there be a sequel, would Puppet Master be black??)

For the acting, I get the impression the actors are casted more for their looks. The only exception is Michael Chiklis who is solid as the Thing. The rest are passable fill-ins. Jessica is an obvious choice for the lead female since she is a recognizable face. Josh Evans has a nice physique. Julian McMahon is handsome. (Need I say more about the casting choices?)

As already mentioned, it is a decent flick. Not great, but not bad. It does have an adolescent feel to it. The issues dealt in the movie, about acceptance and feeling of inadequacy, would appeal more to kids, teens and youths that struggle with it more than older adults. It could also explain why critics hated it, because they in the older age group. I don't know what the mean age of film critics, but I'm guessing early 40's to 50's. (Ebert is in his 60's; Andrew Sarris is over 80; Peter Travers, A. O. Scott, Kenneth Turan are probably in their 40's.) So I suspect the younger-age audiences will enjoy it more than the older adults.

FInal score: 6/10

ZorBrak

07-10-2005, 08:08 PM

I believe that the critic-haters (ZorBrak especially) don't actually read reviews, or they only read one and based their their entire opinion on it. Or maybe they are easily aggravated by them (*koffMatt WilsonKoff*). Most of the people that post here are comic book fans. Most of the critics are not. My wife is not a comic book fan and she thinks the FF movie looks silly.

I have no opinion on the film yet. Haven't seen it.
I am just finding many flaws in a lot of the reviews I find.
...And I read plenty :mad:. I'm a jounralism student :mad: .
Never read one Issue of FF in my life (yet) but I am going to defend it from unjust reviews. Take Kim Harvey's as an anti-example. I thought his review was very objective and pointed out some flaws in the film that are evident, namely the product placement. He didn't go "OMG This is a comic movie where is the so-and-so!". They all run on cliches...you make a PC themed movie? "It just might be oscar material". A comic film? "Blech."

Perhaps you should check out Charlotte's wonderful genius critic Jay Sherm...I mean...Lawrence Toppman.

Thanks.

Outlander00

07-10-2005, 08:40 PM

Short diagnosis: Its not one of the better comic book movies put out, but its still a good and fun movie. I went into this movie not expecting much... and came out a little above my expectations.

Michael Chiklis and Chris Evans were dead on as Thing and Torch. they nailed their characters down (not to mention the script was well written in terms of their dialogue). Reed Richards was cast okay, though I felt the performance was a little uninspired.

Sue Storm and Doom though... Well, they were rather miscast and their performances fell flat.

Story was pretty good... nothing shattering about it but, like I said, it was a fun movie. I just felt the script had a lot of inconsistencies though, especially near the end of the movie with details... as if it was not written fully out to its logicial conclusions. It also fell a little flat with the Reed/Sue love angle as well.

Despite those... it ranks above average with the other comic movies that have been done... *** 1/2

Anyone who trashes this movie is a complete retard as the Fantastic Four is concerned.
Well people trashing the movie is their perogative, BY1... Its opinion. Its peoples right to be critical of something... its human nature, really. To call people "retarded" because they disagree with you is just bad taste my friend. You like it? Good... Im glad you are happy how it turned out. Other people not liking it, well thats okay too... Its diversity that makes this world so great :D

Hades

07-10-2005, 09:33 PM

Very average superhero movie. Not horrible, but nothing special either.

Doom SUCKED, he was nothing compared to the comic version. I'm sorry, but Doom is not supposed to be an evil CEO, he's just not. Also, Johnny Storm was never THAT much of a jackass in the comics, they really overdid it. The way he was portrayed in the movie just made me want Ben to kick his ass.

Also, the final battle was a little underwhelming.

3 stars.
It's funny because I thought they took Torch right out of the comics, at least the ones I read.

Yes, Doom was not as threatening as he was in the comics, but let's see how they do him in a future movie (which I'm sure they will be). After all, he was just starting out, and was being sent back to Latveria. Not to mention this is a movie based on a comic, and does not have to be taken exactly from the comics.

Look at X-Men, there are so many changes between the movies and comics you cannot even count. Everyone loved it though. Why? Because it was a great story, not because it differed from the comics. If you want origins taken right out of the comics, read the comics.

Anyway, this movie was very good, and I'd love to see it again. Granted, it is flawed, and a little too short, but those are only minor complaints. I'm going to give it a 3, but I will probably raise it upon a second viewing.

AdamYJ

07-10-2005, 09:59 PM

I just saw it and thought it was pretty good, all things considered. Fantastic Four has never been very deep as a concept, like Spider-Man or X-Men can be. There also wasn't enough of a budget to do anything else beyond what was there (can't realistically send them off into the Negative Zone and afford all those special effect powers, now can we). What FF has always been about is personality, and the movie nailed that. Thing and Human Torch were definitely spot on. Invisible Woman was good enough, I found nothing objectionable about her depiction. I thought they nailed Reed, too. Some people disagree, but this guy seems a lot like the Mr. Fantastic I've been reading about in the comics recently. He overthinks things. He feels guilt over what he did to his friends. He's someone who seems more comfortable thinking about scientific phenomena than dealing with people. Seems just like Reed Richards.

Their take on Doom was interesting. They managed to really nail Doom's gigantic ego. Latveria was still part of the picture in terms of where he came from, and after seeing him be sent back, you know he'll be running the place by the time the sequel rolls around. Then again, I never really cared for Doom in the comics. I just never got all that stuff people say about him being noble or sympathetic. Doom's just a guy with a big ego who thinks he's noble. Then again, that's just me.

One thing I did notice though, this was the first time we've ever seen the Fantastic Four be bankrupt before they even got started.

Patrick Bateman

07-10-2005, 10:16 PM

How many times do I need to say it? I didn't call people retards. I called retarded as the FF is concerned. Does no one understand that concept? Anyone?

Edit by Bird Boy: Watch the language and drop the subject. You shouldn't use such offensive words if you don't want to be yelled at for it.

ManicWebb

07-10-2005, 10:22 PM

I just never got all that stuff people say about him being noble or sympathetic. Doom's just a guy with a big ego who thinks he's noble. Then again, that's just me.
Actually, I agree. I never got all the stuff about Doom being noble and honorable in the comics. This is the guy who kidnapped Franklin Richards, and dropped him in a portal to Hell just to watch Reed squirm. He vowed revenge against Reed when his "disfigured face" was nothing more than a hardly noticable scar, and further disfigured himself when he placed his mask on for the first time, seconds after it was forged in fire.

Dr. Doom feigns nobility, but he's always been egotistical scum.

90'sCartoonMan

07-10-2005, 10:59 PM

Since i've never read the comics, can anyone here give me an example of the things that made Doom so cool in the comics that he wasn't in the movie? Just curious. Because this is the second time i've seen Doom at all, the first was in that Spiderman episode "Doom"
Hm, it seems like most of the people who enjoyed the movie weren't as bothered by Dr Doom's depiction as I was. Like I said before, I'm a long time Fantastic Four fan, and Dr. Doom is one of my all-time favorite villains.

Like most good villains, Doom has his admirable qualities and his flaws. When all is said and done, Victor Von Doom is a man who came from humble surroundings, studied and worked hard, overthrew a nation, and became ruler. Dr. Doom isn't necessarily a bad ruler. Latveria is a nation completely under his command, it's got all of Doom's technology protecting it, the only thing Doom is really strict about is making all citizens acknowledge him as ruler.

Dr. Doom's tragic flaw is his ego. He's a man of intelligence and ambition, and in college when Reed pointed out the flaw of his experiment, he couldn't let it go. I think his hatred towards Reed had more to do with someone pointing out a mistake rather than the actual act of scarring him.

Doom is a man of willpower, he beat the Beyonder in Secret Wars. He's a genius, and a manipulative one at that. He plots, he strategizes, and he comes up with back-up plans. Here's the entry on him in the Marvel Directory: http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/d/drdoom.htm

The FF movie took a lot away from what Doom is. He didn't have a tragic past, and his armor wasn't his own creation, it was something that happened to him. We got to see Doom's ego and a little bit of him manipulating Ben, but it just wasn't enough for me. Doom may be a petty guy when it comes to Reed, but he's petty on a grand scale. It wasn't so much here (plus the armor he made has more power in it than a heat seeking missile).

AdamYJ

07-10-2005, 11:13 PM

The FF movie took a lot away from what Doom is. He didn't have a tragic past, and his armor wasn't his own creation, it was something that happened to him. We got to see Doom's ego and a little bit of him manipulating Ben, but it just wasn't enough for me. Doom may be a petty guy when it comes to Reed, but he's petty on a grand scale. It wasn't so much here (plus the armor he made has more power in it than a heat seeking missile).
The movie Doom didn't seem to have a tragic past because they never told us about any of it. All they did was mention Latveria once. I could easily imagine him being the man of humble begginnings who built himself up in this movie. The difference is that he built a company instead of took over a country (which will probably be left for a sequel if one happens).

The way I always saw Doom in the comics was that ego wasn't just a flaw of his, it was the driving force behind his whole personality. His hatred toward Reed Richards was due to ego. Doom cannot comprehend the idea that the explosion and scarring were his fault, so he blames Reed. His taking over a country and super-enforcing the acknowledgement of his leadership was for his own ego. Even the things he does for the people of Latveria are to stroke his own ego. He may have created some good things there, but it was never because he wanted to help the people. To him, they were always good things because they came from Doom, not because they were what the people needed. The constant message playing in Doom's mind is: "Doom can do no wrong."

But that's just my interpretation.

JLApe

07-10-2005, 11:33 PM

How many times do I need to say it? I didn't call people retards. I called retarded as the FF is concerned. Does no one understand that concept? Anyone?According to your original post:
Anyone who trashes this movie is a complete retard as the Fantastic Four is concerned.There are people that trashes the movie. By the above statement, as you have phrase it, the "retard" refers to "anyone".

Maybe if you weren't irrational, people will understand you better.

Jade_GL

07-10-2005, 11:44 PM

I was pleasantly suprised by this movie. I thought it was going to rank on the all time bad comic book movie list, right there with Catwoman, Elektra, and Hulk, but instead it was pretty good. Not great, but good.

I think the movie did it's best when it showed the relationships between characters, especially Johnny and Ben. They were solid, and their kind of brother-type rivalry and pranking relationship was very good. I think I got the most enjoyment out of that combination. I also liked Reed in the film. They really played up his guilt and his obsession with science to the exclusion of other things in life well.

The bad? Dr. Doom. Blech. Not impressed by the choice of actor, the powers, or the entire way they took his character. He just wasn't scary or imposing. When I see Doom in the comics, he's a huge guy in freaky armor. I imagine a booming and frightening voice, someone that will make you mess your pants if they look sideways at you. The movie Doom was just not scary, at all. Not imposing, not frightening. I was just waiting for some big revelation in his character, something that would take him and make him Dr. Doom, and it just never happened.

The really good? I loved the team work at the end, especially seeing Reed creatively use his powers and then coordinate everyone in the attack on Doom. That was very good.

All in all, an ok super hero flick. I was impressed because I wasn't expecting much, and it turned out better than I expected. However, some things just didn't add up for me, like the main villain not being at all imposing or the weird plot holes in some cases (I never really got how they got to Ben on the bridge, Alba strpped then.... Profit? I was slightly confused on that) and that kept it from being a really great comic movie.

Put this on the scale somewhere slightly ahead of League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, way ahead of Elektra and Catwoman, and slightly behind Hellboy and X-Men, and way behind Superman and Batman Begins. It's right there in the middle. I would even say high middle of the scale. It's certainly got the humor and interesting team dynamics going for it. They just need to make the main villain more of a threat and work on some of the characters,

Phlibbit

07-10-2005, 11:52 PM

Ookay. I saw it at my theater on Friday on the first show they had. I wasn't expecting much, but I didn't know I would get this. By the time the 'origin' stuff is completely over, the film is as well. Ugh. The story was really rushed. I REALLY didn't like Dr. Doom. He's like, exactly like Norman Osborn in Spider-Man. Down to the last drop. He gets special powers, the board wants to fire him, uses powers to kill them, and oh wait! He just HAPPENS to have a metal Dr. Doom mask lying around, too! Might as well make a costume! Oh, and he sounds like a pansy, too, even with the mask on. His lines are corny and stupid. He should sound...I dunno, more like Vader or Dr. Claw or something instead of his regular voice. Terrible. The final battle with Doom was okay, but too short and not threatening enough. I hope the mask got welded to his face :D Also, the thing at the end where it comes back and shows Dr. Doom was really lame. 1.5/4 stars from me.

Memphis Bleek

07-11-2005, 12:46 AM

Marvel Comics' movie parade continues with its first family. Stan Lee and Jack Kirby created Fantastic Four which tells the story of four friends given special powers by cosmic radiation.

Ioann Gruffudd plays Reed Richards--Mr. Fantastic. He potrays Richards as the brillant yet socially-aloof scientist. Jessica Alba, Susan Storm, is the Invisible Woman, and she is as beautiful and compassionate as her comic counterpart. Michael Chiklis brings Ben Grimm(the Thing) to life because he's physically tough but weak emotionally. Chris Evans is the rambunctious teen known as Johhny Storm or the Human Torch to his fanclub. Julian McMahon takes on the role of Victor Von Doom.

McMahon is a budding star, but his character is hampered by a comic book movie cliché--the evil CEO. Doom follows in the footsteps of Lex Luthor and Norman Osbourne. Doom's confrontations with his board of trustees or bankers is the same as Osbourne's confrontations in Spider-Man with the same result. Doom is the least developed character of the main cast.

The movie suceeds in showing the family dynamic and the rivalry between Richards and Doom. Ben and Johnny's relationship is similar to little brother versus big brother. The chemistry between the characters provides for some hilarious moments. Richards loves Susan, but he doesn't know how to express himself. The group bickers and fights, but they support each other in times of crisis.

The rivalry between Doom and Richards is the basis of the plot. On the surface, Doom has everything:money, fame and power. Richards is the polar opposite. Doom loves Susan, so he goes out of his way to belitte Richards in her present. Doom has the everything except he has no true love or friends to share his wealth with in life. This factor and Doom's disease--which he believes Richards is responible for--leads to the climax.

The family dynamic and rivalry make the movie interesting; however, bad dialogue and editing weaken the film. The dialouge is flat and unconverstational. It forces the actors into dull exchanges and adds no emotional resonance. The movie also suffers from over-editing. The movie is an hour and 50 minutes. The characters could be fleshed out with 15 more minutes of screen time. Extra time could also help to make the ending more dramatic. Some of the deleted scenes could have made the final product better. The final cut feels like it was edited down to be two hour or less.

The movie's brevity causes plot loopholes. Alicia Masters, Kerry Washington, falls in love with the Thing after their first meeting. Johnny may or may not have kill a barge captain. Richards recovered from a higher dose of radiation in less than 20 minutes, and the Ben transformed back into the Thing using a machine that seemingly broke moments earlier. These questions go unanswered and end as plot devices.

Fantastic four is not a movie classic. It is an above average summer blockbuster.

Jack_Gladney

07-11-2005, 01:28 AM

AceOfKnaves

07-11-2005, 02:39 AM

How many times do I need to say it? I didn't call people retards. I called retarded as the FF is concerned. Does no one understand that concept? Anyone?

Simply put, anyone who actually reads the comics will know that the FF movie was not only in character, but actually pretty well cast. The story was good, sans the lack of fight, and the overall outlook on the movie was positive.

Perhaps...retard isn't the accurate word to use. But naive or "rookie" to the concept might be a little bit more on the mark. This movie was very true to original comics, and honestly, I think it's one of the best comic book adaptions so far.

Everyone should be able to admit when they don't know alot about a comic book origin...I don't pretend to be the world's greatest Spider-Man expert, or X-Men expert...so I don't create opinions against something I'm told is accurate in the comics...since those are the difinitive origins, afterall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BY1
How many times do I need to say it? I didn't call people retards. I called retarded as the FF is concerned. Does no one understand that concept? Anyone?

According to your original post: Quote:
Anyone who trashes this movie is a complete retard as the Fantastic Four is concerned.
There are people that trashes the movie. By the above statement, as you have phrase it, the "retard" refers to "anyone".

Maybe if you weren't irrational, people will understand you better.07-10-2005 08:13 PM

While his word choice probably wasn't the best to use, attacking him back doesn't make you any less irrational. It's probably best to drop this whole subject...i.e. be rational.

~Selena~

rmarti3926

07-11-2005, 06:17 AM

Not bad, given the dark tone of current summer hits like Batman Begins and War of the Worlds, it's fun to have a lighthearted flick like F4 for once.

8/10

mg_winxclub

07-11-2005, 08:00 AM

I don't care what those stupid critics say, they over-analyze everything anyway. I saw the Fantastic 4 movie on Friday night and I TOTALLY LOVED IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's so totally worth seeing and I HIGHLY RECOMMED IT!

Hades

07-11-2005, 08:15 AM

Also, they totally ripped off the end of Danger: Diabolik. My pick for best Fantastic Four film remains the Roger Corman version.
Are you talking about that really bad movie that is so bad, you can only get it bootlegged if you want to see it? If so, I'm sorry, but this was lightyears ahead of it.

solarflere

07-11-2005, 06:38 PM

What I don't get is that if Reed Richards could build a devise to simulate the cosmic storm why did thet have to go up to space?:confused:.

Outlander00

07-11-2005, 06:46 PM

What I don't get is that if Reed Richards could build a devise to simulate the cosmic storm why did thet have to go up to space?:confused:. I guess they could make an argument that since they did go to space already and collected data on it, he could recreate the storm.

Though, as I said... inconsistantcies in the script. :p

Jack_Gladney

07-11-2005, 07:27 PM

Are you talking about that really bad movie that is so bad, you can only get it bootlegged if you want to see it? If so, I'm sorry, but this was lightyears ahead of it.

It's actually so bad that Marvel had the negatives destroyed, and never intended for it to be released at all. But at least it never tried to brainwash me into buying a delicious, jucy Burger King hamburger and a nice, refreshing Coca Cola while I watch ESPN.

Actually, I was a little harsh on the new film. There are some genuinely good bits in there, but I don't like the amount of exposition and action that surrounds them.

Lorendiac

07-11-2005, 08:42 PM

The movie stunk on ice, but had the best Stan Lee cameo yet. Also, the Baxter Building was about how it should be. Otherwise, it was full of empty special effects and an obscene amount of advertising. Not just product placement mind you, like maybe a scene where the Thing eats a delicious Burger King hamburger and drinks a refreshing bottle of Dos Equis beer. Rather, there are actual billboards and ad posters crowding every inch of background for about five minutes. I was actually offended so much that I shook my fist in Dr. Doom-like rage and swore an oath to exact bloody vengeance from all involved parties while referring to myself in the third person.

Also, they totally ripped off the end of Danger: Diabolik. My pick for best Fantastic Four film remains the Roger Corman version.Funny, I noticed the product placement but didn't lose any sleep over it. The real world is full of advertising billboards, after all.

Granted, I thought one of the funniest lines in the movie "Looney Tunes: Back in Action" was when the heroes walk away from a Wal-Mart supercenter (strangely located in the middle of an otherwise unpopulated desert) with Bugs Bunny saying, "Gee, it sure was nice of Wal-Mart to give us all these cool Wal-Mart beverages in exchange for our mentioning the name Wal-Mart so many times!"

Now that's what I call honest product placement! Not making the slightest effort to casually pretend Wal-Mart "just happened" to be mentioned in the movie, but instead frankly admitting they had cut a deal to do it that way! :)

By the way, what happened at the end of Danger: Diabolik? I think I actually watched that one on video many years ago, but I remember almost nothing about the details of the plot after all this time.

hobbyfan

07-11-2005, 08:59 PM

Where did they go wrong?

1. Recasting Victor Von Doom as a Lex Luthor/Norm Osborn-type businessman/scientist. Huh? Dr. Doom didn't debut in the comics until FF #4, as everyone knows.

2. Von Doom is added to the space mission that exposed the FF to the cosmic rays, instead of having already been disfigured in an accident. That Von Doom funded the project makes even less sense.

3. Reed & Sue had broken up, then reconciled at movie's end? Von Doom was about to propose to Sue when the cosmic storm hit, so that, thankfully, didn't go anywhere, but at least a couple of reviews I read made the mistaken assumption that Sue was Vic's girl. Thankfully, this was clarified in time for Reed to propose.

4. Most importantly, as memory serves, that fatal space mission was conducted in secret in the middle of the night, when the FF snuck onto Cape Canaveral (I think). Did they really have to screw around with the origin that badly?

On the whole, this movie tried to appease fans of both the traditional series as well as the trendy Ultimate version, and failed. Tim "Imaginary" Story has proven once again that he was just a 1-hit wonder ("Barbershop") that got too big a head. That FF went to #1 is owed more to fan curiosity than common sense. Watch, Charlie & the Chocolate Factory will bump the FF out come next weekend.

What worked: MIchael Chiklis & Chris Evans nailed Thing & Torch, respectively. Stan Lee's quickie cameo as Willie Lumpkin was a welcome distraction.

What didn't work: The script exposed the fact that the writers didn't do enough research. They come off as fans trying to rewrite history as they prefer to see it. You might as well have cast John Shea (Lois & Clark, Mutant X) as Von Doom, and it'd have been the same thing.

Will there be a sequel? Of course. There is plenty of room for improvement, after all.

ManicWebb

07-11-2005, 09:04 PM

I felt it was a little too short, a few scenes went by too quickly (ie. the set-up for them going in space), and a few superimposed location subtitles wouldn't hurt. Where the hell was that mountain clinic, anyway?

The comic book purist in me is a little upset at how they did Dr. Doom, but the general sci-fi fan in me likes it. That was one stone cold villain.

The ending fight scene could've been a little longer, though. Perhaps have Reed and Johnny get more one-on-one time with Vick?

But it ain't all bad. There were some good, fun moments splashed throughout the movie. The "hanging 'round the Baxter" montage was great. I loved seeing how Von Doom was staying a few steps ahead of Reed. Ben's first meeting of Alicia was good, although I wish one Ben-Alicia scene from the shooting script had made it into the film.

Overall, I'd give it a B-. Maybe a C+. I don't regret seeing it at all, but I won't be going back for repeat viewings. The DVD shall be mine.

staticblue

07-12-2005, 10:12 AM

Ok its time for me to weigh in. I let this thread get 5 pages in because I wanted to see what everyone thought. First off, I saw the movie Sunday. As a fan of Marvel comics period, I greatly enjoyed this movie. I have probably read maybe 4 FF comics in my life, but My main hobby is comics so I make it my business to know as much about a certain marvel team or character despite not reading the comics at all. Im very astute on the fantastic 4, so I consider myself a fan. This moive was great, It had problems, but it was great. Jonny was dead on. Ben was good. I know people have complained about his look, but I felt the final product was justified. You got to look at it this way people, there were several factors that went into the final product of Bens look.First, is finace. You cant have a CG Thing if Jonny is also CG as well. Its too much money. plus, Thing is on screen as the thing for 80% of the movie, each time a CG Thing would have popped up would have been some major money. I felt The final product was good. It worked for me and I wouldnt want them to change it for the other movies. Alba as Sue storm...I really had problems woth her playing this part before I saw this film. After I saw it, I will say this. I still dont think she should have been anywere in this film except for maybe beeing a love interest for jonny or whatever..but she made it work. she pulled it off. Ill give her that. Ioan as Reed was ok. He felt rather stiff, but Ill chaulk it up to him getting his sea legs for the role. I would have like Tim Robbins though.
Doom... I dont blame the actor for this screw up, I blame the writers. Julian worked with what he had, but the end result just sucked. The only thing satisfying about doom was the fact that he got shipped off to Latveria. Maybe now we can see the real doom. Black Alicia was fine...and sexy. ;)
now to adress some of the discussion on this forum.

-I dont know the name of the poster who started this, I think his name was Hurricane, but I have to say, dude, you were LOOKING for stuff to complain about. all of your nitpicks can be explained, and WAS explaind in this movie. If you dont think so, list them again, and Ill show you. As far as characterization between Spidey and this movie. Neither was better or worse than the other. They were equal. Spidey had its character faults. For instance. Incostume, we saw almost no wisecracks at all. As far as FF goes, Sue didnt feel like sue to me, but it was acceptable. So no one can tell me that the characterization of Spidey was "spot on" because it wasnt.

-I cant beleive people are taking this one too seriously. Jonny did not kill anyone in this movie. The ship he set on fire was a garbage barge. For those who are not well informed on this subject, garbage barges float around on rivers of bbig cities because the city itself doesnt have any place to put it. Even the US itself has a barge that circles travels the Atlantic. And they dont have anyone piloting them. I repeat NO PEOPLE.

-I gotta defend BY1. He was not saying if you didnt like FF in general you were retarted. He was basically saying that you have no knowledge of these characters.Get a grip.

-someone said that this movie felt like Ghostbusters. I knew I wasnt the only one that felt that way. It also had feelings of TMNT, Spiedr-man, X-men 1, and other movies I cant think of at the moment.

-I have to be the first to say that after Incredibles came out, I was worried that the many noninformed majority would see FF as a ripoff, and this is coming from someone who saw Incredibles. Lets get real people, there will always be compariosn to the two films, although I dont think thats fair considering Incredibles is animated and most likely had a bigger budget.

Thats all for now. any concerns? hit me back

Wounded_Dragon

07-12-2005, 12:04 PM

Where did they go wrong?

1. Recasting Victor Von Doom as a Lex Luthor/Norm Osborn-type businessman/scientist. Huh? Dr. Doom didn't debut in the comics until FF #4, as everyone knows.

2. Von Doom is added to the space mission that exposed the FF to the cosmic rays, instead of having already been disfigured in an accident. That Von Doom funded the project makes even less sense.

3. Reed & Sue had broken up, then reconciled at movie's end? Von Doom was about to propose to Sue when the cosmic storm hit, so that, thankfully, didn't go anywhere, but at least a couple of reviews I read made the mistaken assumption that Sue was Vic's girl. Thankfully, this was clarified in time for Reed to propose.

4. Most importantly, as memory serves, that fatal space mission was conducted in secret in the middle of the night, when the FF snuck onto Cape Canaveral (I think). Did they really have to screw around with the origin that badly?

1. So debuting in issue 4 automatically keeps you from being in the first movie?

2. It's called a new origin, one with more beef to it that "ouch, you disfigured me."

3. Part of the changed origin so that the movie made sense.

4. Are you KIDDING!?! You expect people to buy, in this day and age, that four people could sneak into a NASA installation and STEAL a shuttle? Their original origin doesn't even work any more, as there's no space race to justify them breaking so many laws. And since we've been in space for many years, we know Cosmic Rays are just floating around everywhere, so we needed a specific time and place for the event, and an explanation of why they didn't just die of radiation poisoning.

Slade_Wilson

07-12-2005, 03:36 PM

I was afraid that there would be much critisism on Thing's look.Most of it comming from the same people who thought that Hulk was too big to be believable. All I have to say is when you become the experts on these sort of things then you can complain. I mean what do you want? Hulk was too tall, Thing was too big. I bet if it were reversed we'd still have a problem.

by the way, Doom appeard in FF#5 not 4.

ManicWebb

07-12-2005, 06:12 PM

I'm one of those people who thought the Hulk was too big, and I liked that the Thing was a man in a suit... even if that man is the same height as me, Tom Cruise, and Stephen Dorff. Oooh, 4 inches off. Big deal. At least Thing wasn't a clear 7 feet off.

hobbyfan

07-12-2005, 10:50 PM

1. So debuting in issue 4 automatically keeps you from being in the first movie?

No, it doesn't. Doom is the foe most fans associate with the FF, so this was a no-brainer, although their first opponent was actually the Mole Man. However, the Mole Man doesn't have the same kind of allure that Doom does with the bottom line.

2. It's called a new origin, one with more beef to it that "ouch, you disfigured me."

Doom actually disfigured himself in the comics.

3. Part of the changed origin so that the movie made sense.

The movie would've made more sense if they stuck with Sue & Reed being an item from the go. The writers didn't do their homework!!:eek:

4. Are you KIDDING!?! You expect people to buy, in this day and age, that four people could sneak into a NASA installation and STEAL a shuttle? Their original origin doesn't even work any more, as there's no space race to justify them breaking so many laws. And since we've been in space for many years, we know Cosmic Rays are just floating around everywhere, so we needed a specific time and place for the event, and an explanation of why they didn't just die of radiation poisoning.
With the advances in modern technology, it's still do-able to sneak onto a NASA base and steal a shuttle. Cloaking devices and all that. Again, a lack of research by the writers. Stan Lee could've written a better script.:D

90'sCartoonMan

07-12-2005, 11:01 PM

The way I always saw Doom in the comics was that ego wasn't just a flaw of his, it was the driving force behind his whole personality. His hatred toward Reed Richards was due to ego. Doom cannot comprehend the idea that the explosion and scarring were his fault, so he blames Reed. His taking over a country and super-enforcing the acknowledgement of his leadership was for his own ego. Even the things he does for the people of Latveria are to stroke his own ego. He may have created some good things there, but it was never because he wanted to help the people. To him, they were always good things because they came from Doom, not because they were what the people needed. The constant message playing in Doom's mind is: "Doom can do no wrong."
Yeah, I think that sums up the comics Dr. Doom pretty well. He may be an ego maniac, but strangely enough, I root for the guy sometimes. Like when he faced off against the Beyonder in Secret Wars and won by sheer will alone? That was awesome! The guy can kill a lion without needing any weapons or powers. TIME ITSELF bends to Dr. Doom's whims! The Doom we get in this movie isn't even a fraction of that.

I'm still trying to figure out why I didn't enjoy the movie as much as the rest of you. We all seem to agree that Doom was lame and Sue was miscast, but what is keeping me from enjoying the rest of it? As far as team dynamics go, it was actually better than X-Men and it'll be hard for another comic book team movie to top that.

I was just expecting more, I guess. Staticblue, you're a comic book fan and you've seen a lot, what makes Fantastic Four different from any typical origin story? Can anyone tell me that? I know they are a team and have public identities, but after seeing Batman Begins a couple weeks ago and even Incredibles last year, I wanted something that wasn't "This is how we get our powers, this is what made us use our powers for good, here is our enemy, this is how we beat him". Was I the only one that got this vibe?

This movie sure changed a lot of races around in terms of actors, not just Alicia, but Sue, Ben, and Doom as well. I didn't mind it (I just minded Alba herself). To whoever asked about a black Puppet Master, Alicia is his step daughter and not any genetic relation, so he can still be white if they ever use him.

Jack Frenzy

07-12-2005, 11:31 PM

Just saw it. Not sure what to say that hasn't been said already, but since I own most of the comics up to the 1990's (whether that's something to brag about or a sign of terminal nerddom is up to you), if there was ever a movie for me to chime in about, it's this one.

Character by Character:
Reed: Good, though he seemed a bit young (the classic gray sideburns a byproduct of the cosmic storm? Uh, sure). Aside from Ben, Reed in the comics was the oldest, being a pseudo-1950's father-figure for the team. (I've always suspected he was inspired by Fred MacMurray in "The Absent-Minded Professor.") Still, his performance was true to the character, if not quite as domineering as the comic Reed could get at times.

Sue: Okay. I can't say Jessica Alba was born to play this role by any means, but she did better than I was expecting. The trouble with the character of Sue in the comics is that, like Reed, she's a product of another era. She was literally a whitebread Kennedy-era Jackie-wannabe and mother-figure. It was only in the late eighties that the writers started making her truly assertive. Jessica Alba's character starts off a lot more assertive than Sue did, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Of course, it made it difficult to see the chemistry between her and Reed.

Johnny: Excellent. He always was a flashy show-off with an eye for the girls. The only discrepancy between his portrayal and the comic is more the fault of Reed, who as I mentioned earlier is a bit young yet for the part. If Reed was the father-figure and Sue was the mother-figure, Johnny was the rebellious 1960's youth. Having him so apparently close to Reed in age (If you look, he's taller than Reed), eliminates the know-it-all father/wild youth relationship from the comics.

Ben: Excellent. I would've liked a little more bulk and the trademark brow, but there's only so much latex you can slap on Michael Chiklis before he dies of heat exhaustion. He had the right sense of angst, and his quarrels with Johnny were straight out of the comics.

Doom: Disappointing. That was not Victor Von Doom. Victor Von Doom is a super-scientist despot who rules his small European state of Latveria with an iron fist. He rules because no one is smart enough to bring him down. Even foreign governments fear him and grant him diplomatic immunity. He was born a gypsy and maintains an old world air about himself. (Where was his accent?) He does not have superpowers, aside from the devices he has invented himself. He is intellect turned to evil and tyranny, pure and simple. I suspect his character ended up this way because:

1) Norman Osborne was in Spiderman 1, a very successful movie.
2) The movie is somewhat slow-paced, focussing on the character interactions rather than action. The producers might have felt that throwing in a comics-accurate Doctor Doom (the villain had to be Doctor Doom!) would have required too much backstory.
3) Comics-accurate Doctor Doom -- a disfigured man in a suit of high-tech armor -- is a lot like Darth Vader, who just had a movie. (Let's face it: George Lucas ripped off Doctor Doom to create Darth Vader. Every Marvel fan -- including Mark Hamill so I've heard -- recognized it when Star Wars debuted in the 1970's.)

(Side-note to all Venture Brothers fans unfamiliar with the FF comic: Richard Impossible and his family are direct parodies of the FF. Baron Unterbheit is what Doctor Doom should be like.)

Story:
Good introduction to the characters, but I would've liked a quicker pace.

FF#1 started out with the four charging into action at a call from Reed, sending the populace into a panic and leaving readers desperate to find out where they came from. (Excellent job, Stan and Jack!)

Although the character building in the movie was good, I really wasn't feeling the excitement until the Torch's scramble with the heat seeker. After that, I was really revved up for the final battle, but it passed far too quickly for my tastes. It demonstrated the sort of teamwork the FF is known for, but FF vs individual supervillain fights are supposed to be grand affairs involving smashed buildings. At least, Ben got to throw a car!

Hopefully, with introductions out of the way, next movie we'll see a true comic book throwdown.

Overall, a good movie, true to the characters, but hopefully paving the way for something even better.

Wounded_Dragon

07-12-2005, 11:47 PM

With the advances in modern technology, it's still do-able to sneak onto a NASA base and steal a shuttle. Cloaking devices and all that. Again, a lack of research by the writers. Stan Lee could've written a better script.:D

I didn't know Reed was a Klingon!

Seriously, cloaking devices? And stealing a shuttle? It's not like they leave the keys in the ignition. All sorts of preparations need to be done to prepare a shuttle. And even assuming they did manage to steal some futuristic shuttle that starts at the drop of a hat and eventually land it, they'd be arrested as terrorists.

Their origin was flimsy even in the 60s. Without the space race it makes even less sense now.

staticblue

07-13-2005, 10:18 AM

Yeah, I think that sums up the comics Dr. Doom pretty well. He may be an ego maniac, but strangely enough, I root for the guy sometimes. Like when he faced off against the Beyonder in Secret Wars and won by sheer will alone? That was awesome! The guy can kill a lion without needing any weapons or powers. TIME ITSELF bends to Dr. Doom's whims! The Doom we get in this movie isn't even a fraction of that.

I'm still trying to figure out why I didn't enjoy the movie as much as the rest of you. We all seem to agree that Doom was lame and Sue was miscast, but what is keeping me from enjoying the rest of it? As far as team dynamics go, it was actually better than X-Men and it'll be hard for another comic book team movie to top that.

I was just expecting more, I guess. Staticblue, you're a comic book fan and you've seen a lot, what makes Fantastic Four different from any typical origin story? Can anyone tell me that? I know they are a team and have public identities, but after seeing Batman Begins a couple weeks ago and even Incredibles last year, I wanted something that wasn't "This is how we get our powers, this is what made us use our powers for good, here is our enemy, this is how we beat him". Was I the only one that got this vibe?

Well Cartoon man, you have to realize, the FF arent a typical team even after all these years, you cant even still call them super heroes. the meat of their motivation is exploration and reaching for the unknown. Every mission, with glaring exceptions, that they embark on is in persuit of knowledge. Unlike letting the villian come to them, they go to the villian. They make their own enimies because frankley, they are too damn nosey (Reed im looking in your direction) Even Doom cant be an exception. Had Reed not looked in on Dooms calculations and warned him that they were wrong, they would never be enimies, Doom would have *****ed his face up, and wouldnt hold Reed responsible. I wont even get into their comradere, cause it is very evident that they are a family, unlike the X-men, where its kind of like a family but more of a school, college even, or the Avengers and JLA, where they are all uptight, serious, and pretty much working together to get the job done and then go their seperate ways. Now like I said before, Im a huge comic fan. I havent read many Fantastic 4 comics, but I have followed them closely over the years. I can safely say that these characters, along with Spider-man and the X-men, are a strong reason why I cling to Marvel more than DC. Dont get me wrong, I love DC, but Marvel was the first for me and my collection can attest to it. The creators of the Incredibles probably felt the same way about the FF because they paid a huge homage to them. Now unlike other posters who have trashed Incredibles because it is being compared to FF Im going to give it a pat on the back, but I still think that the compariosn is unfair considering the way each movie was made. And I understand the vibe you got but you have to remember a few things 1. origin stories usually start with how a hero gains the abilities they have, even Batman Begins did this, although it was methodically disguised by good pacing. In fact, am I the only one who got the feeling that by the end of Batman Begins, Bruce still wasnt finished becoming Batman yet, like he still had more to do? anyways, Incredibles on the other hand, already had their powers, and fighting evil was more of a thrill in terms of reliving a time long gone. And you have to remember one thing about FF, they dont fight evil per say, they have no reason to. They fight off those that they have offended in their search for knowledge. I know the movie didnt explain that better, but maybe the sequel will better elaborate on this aspect of the comics. Im an up and coming film maker and one thing I do when I see any movie, is try to mentally see if I could have written it better. Before I saw this movie, I was with those who said Dooms origin was too elaborate to place onto film with the rest of the 4. I even mentally storyboarded the the film the way Tim Story and the team did it, and improved on a lot of stuff. (like in my version, Doom went up into space with the 4, but he didnt fund it, he was a scientist that worked with reed but was competing with reed for sues affections, and to see who was smarter. My version also had Doom never being hit with cosmic rays caus the shields in his area actually worked, yet he scared his face up on reentry,got super obsessed with his looks and doned the mask and such.) after seeing the movie though, I realized that dooms origin could have been told, but it would have been seperate from the rest of the 4, switching between him at some points of the film and the 4 at other points. the villian they would fight would have been mole man. by movies end, doom would don the mask. I feel ive babbeled on way too long, If anyone has any more qustions they think I can answer, id be more than welcome to adress them. As for you cartoon man, If you would like more input on the FF, and you havent disimissed this uber long post, I sugest heading over to www.moviepoopshoot.com and hitting up their comics 101 section. they have a huge archives section that has extensive studies on different characters and its updated weekly. They have a section the Fantastic 4, and even a section on the first Fantastic 4 movie. The site has really been a help to me when i have needed info on a certain character.

staticblue

07-13-2005, 10:37 AM

It's actually so bad that Marvel had the negatives destroyed, and never intended for it to be released at all. But at least it never tried to brainwash me into buying a delicious, jucy Burger King hamburger and a nice, refreshing Coca Cola while I watch ESPN.

Actually, I was a little harsh on the new film. There are some genuinely good bits in there, but I don't like the amount of exposition and action that surrounds them.

not to say anything about anyone, but for all of those people who saw this movie and are complaining about all of the product placement, I have to say that you guys have to be watching movies films for other reasons other than entertainment. I can truely and honestly say that I didnt notice ANY of the product placement in that scene. All I saw was a fight. Plain and simple. maybe its me, but I watch movies for entertainment value and becuase its my craft, not to complain about tons of adds that you probably wouldnt have noticed if you would have been paying attention to the actual movie instead of finding things to nitpick about. I can take someone saying a film is bad because the story sucked or it had bad acting. I can understand that. Some of you have done that and you have done it intelligently, SOME of you. but to say a film is bad because of product placement is just stupid. :shrug:

Patrick Bateman

07-13-2005, 11:39 AM

not to say anything about anyone, but for all of those people who saw this movie and are complaining about all of the product placement, I have to say that you guys have to be watching movies films for other reasons other than entertainment. I can truely and honestly say that I didnt notice ANY of the product placement in that scene. All I saw was a fight. Plain and simple. maybe its me, but I watch movies for entertainment value and becuase its my craft, not to complain about tons of adds that you probably wouldnt have noticed if you would have been paying attention to the actual movie instead of finding things to nitpick about. I can take someone saying a film is bad because the story sucked or it had bad acting. I can understand that. Some of you have done that and you have done it intelligently, SOME of you. but to say a film is bad because of product placement is just stupid. :shrug: *reads the above and smiles*

Slade_Wilson

07-13-2005, 03:39 PM

Hatter

07-13-2005, 04:52 PM

I'll be brief...

It was mediocre, at best. It was a half-baked effort from Marvel to get a tentpole for this summer. They should've waited two or three years for human CG to be perfected, because a lot of it (Reed, Johnny) looked really bad.

Some of the character stuff worked, like the interplay between Ben and Johnny. Ioan Gruffudd had a couple of Reed moments, but he didn't really work.
And Doom was a joke.

I have to ask: at the end of the film, when they decide to continue as "superheroes", I was wondering... who the bloody hell are they going to fight? This movie went to such lengths to put the FF in our boring "real world" that in the end, there's no indication of any other super-villains existing in the world other than Dr. Doom. The FF didn't even fight any crooks! They were a celebrity fad for the entire film until the final fight, when they "decide" to become superheroes. The transition didn't work.

I just pray they get a different director for the sequel.

AdamYJ

07-13-2005, 04:55 PM

Well Cartoon man, you have to realize, the FF arent a typical team even after all these years, you cant even still call them super heroes.

I like answering to lines like these because they still show some prejudice toward what the word "superhero" should mean. People say it about the FF and about the X-Men and all sorts of other characters, when really they're all superheroes of different sorts. I think people have to open up more in terms of what the word "superhero" means. If a Norse god like Thor, a super-soldier like Captain America, a dark detective like Batman and a space cop like Green Lantern can all be considered superheroes, then so can explorers like the Fantastic Four and mutant outcast heroes like the X-Men. It's a very diverse genre that draws from many different sources. Heck, look at the average superhero universe. They're worlds in which alien races, Greek and Norse gods, the lost city of Atlantis, super-technology, master sorcerers, hard-boiled detectives and horror characters like Dracula all exist simultaneously (not that I'd ask the average movie-goer to believe in such a world).

Jade_GL

07-13-2005, 05:24 PM

To those who say some people are just nitpicking for the sake of being nitpickers:

My main complaint still stands, and that was that Dr. Doom, in the film, was the most lackluster and unimposing villain I have seen in a movie in quite some time. He was not scary or terrifying or powerful, he was just blah. When it came down to it, I liked the stuff when he first had his little scar and was looking in the mirror and commenting on that. The build up was interesting and the early Doom moments were pretty good. Not great but good.

But when he fully was doom, when he put on the mask and all that and tried to off the FF, he was just so.... Just so lame as a villain. I was not at all impressed by the voice, dialogue, costume, etc. In all, a generally good build up was wasted on a villain that was just not that convincing or imposing.

Heck, I was more impressed by Sharon Stone in Catwoman.... Yes, I went there.

Spider-Man

07-13-2005, 06:32 PM

It was mediocre, at best. It was a half-baked effort from Marvel to get a tentpole for this summer. They should've waited two or three years for human CG to be perfected, because a lot of it (Reed, Johnny) looked really bad.

Some of the character stuff worked, like the interplay between Ben and Johnny. Ioan Gruffudd had a couple of Reed moments, but he didn't really work.

And Doom was a joke.

I just pray they get a different director for the sequel.
I pretty much share the same sentiments.

I saw this movie on the weekend and wasn't too blown away by it. I've been reading Fantastic Four for quite some time and was really looking forward to this. My expectations weren't too high after hearing that Alba was cast as Sue and Story as the director. With choppy editing and script and pace problems, this movie turned out to be a pretty mediocre brainless summer movie.

There was alot of good stuff in here. The interplay between the Thing and the Human Torch was excelent and was very at times. While they didn't make Reed the self-assured almost arrogant genius that he is his character was handled fine. Alba was terrible as Sue Storm. Just terrible. I did like the small touch of her nose bleeding as it became harder to hold the invisible sheilds.

And (like Hatter said) Doom was a joke. It's a shame they got such a good actor to play the role but gave him such a terrible flat part.

I hope next time around they learn from their mistakes and also pick up a new director. This movie should have been bigger and better especially when you have such excellent characters as the Fantastic Four.

Jack Frenzy

07-13-2005, 07:35 PM

I'd like to elaborate on Static's post concerning the FF origin. He forgot to mention that a lot of the villains that they encounter aren't completely due to the fact That they explore, but some in part due to the fact that Reed, and sometimes the others as a whole, in advertantly make enemies who don't like them for what they represent. Wizard is a grand example of this. Obscure at that but he's enemies with Reed cause its more of a whose smarter than who. He used to be in the spotlight and when the FF came along they stole his thunder. Puppet master is another one. Thing Was seeing his daughter and thats where the connection is made. A lot of there enemies are also due to the fact that because they have these powers, they feel responsible to help out when trouble comes they're way. why else would they're enemies list consist of City based threats like the Frightful Four or the Absorbing Man. First, three nitpicks (feel free to scroll past):

The Wizard was actually a recurring villain in the Human Torch's solo strip in "Strange Tales." It was only with the founding of the Frightful Four that he took on Reed and the others. Although clearly Reed was an adversary more to his liking than the Torch.

Puppet-Master got involved with the FF after Johnny saved a man he had commanded to jump out a bridge to his death. He wanted revenge on the Torch so he enslaved the Thing and had Alicia, who supposedly was a close lookalike for Sue except for her blindness and haircolor, disguise herself as her to accompany him on the mission. Alicia didn't understand what he was up to, but found herself drawn to the Thing. Of course, her relationship to Ben did become the primary reason for his attacks on the FF.

(Hmm, Johnny's responsible for two enemies in a row.)

The Absorbing Man was a Frightful Four member once in the nineties (I'm totally unaware of any current FrF roster), but he was more a Thor foe than an FF foe.

Now, with that out of my system, the FF was a symbol of scientific utopianism at work (science makes the world better). The element of exploration in the stories was not one of geographical exploration, but of scientific exploration. Reed was always churning out his wacky science gadgets, aiming for new worlds (not for the kick of going there, but for what he could learn there), and as Spider-Man learned to his disappointment when he tried to hook up, all FF profits go to research.

The identification of the FF as geographical explorers, rather than scientific ones, comes from two things: all the exotic locales in the stories (Monster Isle, The Moon, The Negative Zone, etc.) and overcomparison between the FF and that other Kirby foursome, the Challengers of the Unknown.

The message with Reed and all those science villains: Wizard, Dr. Doom, Mad Thinker, Red Ghost, etc. is that science is the real power in the world. Whoever discovers/knows/invents the most is the real master of the world. Sure, jealousy may play a part, but in the end, they wanted Reed dead because his intelligence and inventiveness rivalled, if not exceeded, their own and that made him a threat.

In effect, it was the whole Cold War arms race between the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. played out metaphorically between a handful of technologists, most obviously in the whole Red Ghost/Race for the Moon story.

staticblue

07-14-2005, 09:31 AM

Im sorry, but I refuse to accept that the bad points of this movie rest at the hands of Tim Story. People, a director can only do so much with what is given to him through writing. Sure he can take what he gets and improve upon it, but when you get bad from jump, you can only take it so far. I think Story did a great job with the material he was given. Pacing was bad because it was written that way people, and for all we know, there was probably a lot of stuff cut because FOX wanted it cut in the end.

Slade_Wilson

07-14-2005, 12:54 PM

I have to agree With Static. You guys are putting blame on the wrong person, and its a shame because of the fact that people are ignorant of the movie making process that all they know beyond the actors is the director. Story has nothing to do with casting or writing. He does, however have to do with how the actors play out the material. He probably could have conveyed Doom's actor to be more believable, but in the end the story behind him just makes him an unlikable character.

Spider-Man

07-14-2005, 01:55 PM

You guys are putting blame on the wrong person. Story has nothing to do with casting or writing. He does, however have to do with how the actors play out the material.
Well then I blame the casting director for picking some mediocre talent to fill the shoes of what should be epic characters. I also blame the script writer for writing such a weak script. I blame Tim Story for his boring directing and being unable to get a decent acting job out half of the main cast. I blame the studio for the final product.

I really hope that all the weak spots of this film are ironed out for the sequel. Even if they keep the entire cast I think they could pull off a better job under better direction. These are characters that call for style and substance and not just flashy antics and weak dialogue. With luck we'll see an overall improvement for the franchise when the sequel comes about.

Arkangel

07-14-2005, 03:57 PM

Story has nothing to do with casting or writing. He does, however have to do with how the actors play out the material.
Any director who has "nothing to do" with the casting and script on one of his films is a director in name only. A director supervises all aspects of a film's production and if he is unhappy with either the casting or the script, he can make changes. Bottom line; Story signed off on both the script and the casting when he directed this movie and any failures in these areas are as much a reflection on him as they are on the screenwriter and casting director.

Jade_GL

07-14-2005, 05:39 PM

I blame everyone involved.

Is that fair enough? :)

Seriously, my main complaint is valid no matter what kind of polish anyone tries to put on it. No matter if it was the actor, the script writer, the director, the producer, or even the caterer and coffee grabber, Dr. Doom was possibly the worst villain I have ever seen in a comic book movie.

And no, I haven't seen every comic book movie, but I have seen a pretty good portion. With the standards of other movies villains (Batman Begins, Spiderman 2, X2, Hellboy) this one just falls much too short.

Again, he started very promising (I liked everything up to full on Doom) but for some reason or another, bad editing, bad scripting, bad directing, bad acting, bad on-set food, whatever, the final product when the curtains closed was just not up to par. Again, it's not as bad as the villains in Elektra or in Hulk, but I would say that I was more intrigued by other villains that I shouldn't be more intrigued by. Again, I point to Sharon Stone in Catwoman.

And that makes the movie fall into the *good popcorn flick* range for me. It can't attain great, because one of the most integral parts is so lacking.

RJLundeen

07-14-2005, 06:01 PM

The critics have their thumbs up their butts. Although Doom basically sucked, the F.F. were on target and a lot of fun. The F.F. are very different from other superheroes and it takes a certain approach which I think works here. The only problem is a real lack of villainy. But it was a great intro to the main characters and I look forward to hopefully seeing the Skrulls in the next one and Galactus in number 3!

90'sCartoonMan

07-16-2005, 12:12 AM

I think people have to open up more in terms of what the word "superhero" means. If a Norse god like Thor, a super-soldier like Captain America, a dark detective like Batman and a space cop like Green Lantern can all be considered superheroes, then so can explorers like the Fantastic Four and mutant outcast heroes like the X-Men.
Just to weigh in on the "super hero" thing (staticblue's movie link kinda distracted me), what everything basically comes down to is that the character/team is a defender. Someone given/having superhuman powers (or, in Batman's case, training) and opposing some evil outside force else to protect their home and whatnot. Could be against crazies or mutants or whatever. The Fantastic Four do that all the time, especially when New York is in danger (which is a lot). Jack Frenzy's explanation proves that the FF care about stopping evil as much as they do exploring. Although Hatter is right, by the end of the movie it didn't seem like they could dedicate their powers to saving people since there isn't much of a threat.

mookie75

07-16-2005, 10:23 AM

Just to weigh in on the "super hero" thing (staticblue's movie link kinda distracted me), what everything basically comes down to is that the character/team is a defender. Someone given/having superhuman powers (or, in Batman's case, training) and opposing some evil outside force else to protect their home and whatnot. Could be against crazies or mutants or whatever. The Fantastic Four do that all the time, especially when New York is in danger (which is a lot). Jack Frenzy's explanation proves that the FF care about stopping evil as much as they do exploring. Although Hatter is right, by the end of the movie it didn't seem like they could dedicate their powers to saving people since there isn't much of a threat.
I haven't read a whole lot of Fantastic Four, but I always got the impression that the FF defended Earth from a lot of threats that lurked beyond the planet. Extraterrestrial if you will....

Incidentally, that's why I was skeptical when I first heard about a FF movie. I thought, "Well, I'm assuming they won't bring in somebody like Galactus....but if the FF is just beating up street crime like Spider-Man, it won't be very Fantastic Four-ish."

I still need to see this movie. I should go today.....but.....it's so darn hot ouuuuut!! :sweat:

Spider-Man

07-17-2005, 01:48 PM

For anyone interested the weekend box office estimates for Fantastic Four are in and it suffered a big 60% drop from last weekend. The movie grossed an estimated $22,725,000. If the numbers hold then it will have crossed the $100 million line as of this weekend as well.

PowerZord

07-29-2005, 08:57 AM

Sorry to Ultra-Bump, But I wanted to comment on this movie.

I loved this movie, It was pretty accurate. I loved every minute of this movie.

I give it a 10/10.

Better performed and edited than Batman begins

BatKid

07-29-2005, 10:15 AM

I give it a 10/10.

Better performed and edited than Batman begins I'm sorry...but.....http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/Dex4788/Smilies/Laughing/006.gif

PowerZord

07-29-2005, 06:32 PM

I'm sorry...but.....http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/Dex4788/Smilies/Laughing/006.gif
Oh be quiet, at least I'm more objective in my Opinion. Batman fanboy.

And before I get warned or something, you began with your little mockery of my opinion.

BatKid

07-29-2005, 07:15 PM

Hey, you have your opinion, I have mines. Besides, I already apologized in the first post. :yawn:

ryeck

07-29-2005, 09:19 PM

Saw this yesterday. Parts of it I liked, such as Chiklis as Ben Grimm/The Thing, and Chris Evans as Johnny Storm, and Jessica Alba is very easy on the eyes,but the story didn't really go anywhere. The visuals and effects were very good, but it didn't make up for a plot that was barely there and didn't accomplish anything. I think FF suffered from the opposite of what troubled "The Hulk", where "The Hulk" ran too long by about 20-30 minutes, FF needed more time to get somewhere. Maybe it's just me, and I know FF is supposed to be somewhat lighter in tone than say "The Hulk" or "X-Men", but things seemed to be resolved too quickly. I didn't necessarily like how at the end Ben Grimm was okay with being The Thing. I understand and admired why he "changed" back, to save his best friend Reed, but I always thought a basic premise of the Ben Grimm character was that he was never truly happy and wanted nothing more than to be normal again, yet the end of the movie completely invalidates this.

Anyway, not great, but not horrible. I thought there have been better Marvel movies.

ManicWebb

07-30-2005, 01:21 PM

Damien

08-06-2005, 09:15 PM

If I had to choose one word to describe this movie, I'd choose one from the title. Hint: it's not Four.
Loved this movie. It totally exceeded my expectations, much like Spider-Man and The Punisher. Every character was enjoyable, the troubles the group have translated very nicely to the big screen, and, best of all, they had a real villain, one whose one and only purpose was to dispose of them. Awesome. Dr. Doom, complete with references to his country and the setup for his takeover, is even cooler to me now than before. As much as I thought I'd hate it, the whole electricity thing made sense with what happened on board the station.
I laughed. I felt the pain. I was in awe. Great movie.

Silly McGooses

08-07-2005, 09:38 PM

I think we would've had an insight as to why Ben wanted to stay as the Thing if FOX hadn't forced Tim Story to cut 30 minutes out of the film (FOX doesn't like their movies running at any decent time... remember Kingdom of Heaven?), and we got to see Ben's 2 other scenes with Alicia.
Oh, then I'll definitely pick up a DC if it's available.
For what it's worth, I liked the movie. Sure, it's not a masterpiece, it doesn't have the smartness or psychology of Batman Begins, nor the pathos and beautiful angst of Spider-Man, but it was a fun movie. Some nice laughs, some nice action scenes, very light-hearted and enjoyable. I wasn't expecting Citizen Kane 2. I agree with Damien that the characters were transferred very well. I've seen some people criticize the characterization and say it's not true to the comics. To you I say, look at all the early Stan Lee stories. The characterization is COMPLETELY true to the original. The movie's great fun. That's all it set out to be.

mookie75

08-07-2005, 10:36 PM

EDIT: Sorry for referencing so many other movies in the FF talkback thread. I needed to in order to make my review work. Hey, this thread is probably on its way off the radar at this point anyway. :D

Well, I just saw this one tonight.

I'm not sure what to say at the moment. From basically every aspect that I could think of to critique it, I would say it had moments where it got it perfectly and other moments where it wasn't so hot. There were some nitpicks that I noted as I was watching, but now I can't for the life of me remember them. lol. Maybe that means it was a good movie. :sweat:

To be honest, this movie provided exactly what I've come to expect from the standard "origin" film for comic book superheroes and/or teams. Unfortunately, we have to get through the hows and the whys before we can really get down to some serious heroism. In fact, looking back over the many superhero movies of the past, I think the only "origin" film that I really REALLY enjoyed was "The Incredibles." In the case of that movie, I fear that a sequel would have a hard time topping the original (for me anyway). This is not to say that all the origin movies are awful. I'm just saying that in most cases I enjoy the sequels more than the firsts. I think The Incredibles made the exception with me because I wasn't familiar with the characters. The other superheroes of the world don't have that advantage with me.

Superman: Yeah, yeah....alien from a destroyed world....superhuman powers from Earth's yellow sun....yadda yadda...
Batman: Yeah, yeah....parents murdered.....detective....really ticked at the whole world....yadda yadda....
Spider-Man: Yeah, yeah....geeky teen.....radioactive spider bite...."With great power comes great responsibility"....gotcha....yadda yadda....
X-Men: Yeah, yeah....genetic mutation....world that fears and hates them....yeah, I know the score....yadda yadda....

I could go on....but I'll just hit the major leaguers. :p

Now, don't get me wrong, I think these are all great story concepts. However, I think my familiarity with the characters going into the theater makes me a little impatient to get through the origin unless the director does a REALLY good job of making it interesting.

Anyway, getting back to the FF. I liked the movie overall. I think I'll give it 4 stars. As far as summertime popcorn movies go, it most certainly delivers. I definitely look forward to a sequel as I think it could be of Spider-Man 2 proportions. I know, I know...some of you think that would be the worst thing in the world. Sorry, I loved Spider-Man 2. In fact, it's probably my favorite of all the comic hero movies I've seen. And I've seen many. :anime:

WrenchNinja

08-07-2005, 11:41 PM

I saw the movie and I have to say that its better than I expected it to be. I was kind of not really in the mood to see the movie, mostly cause my brother wanted to see it, so I was forced to take him.:sad:
But it was actually pretty good. Grimm and Storm were great in this movie. Susan was okay. I though Reed was pretty good too.

But Doom was well...meh.

Anyways, good movie. I enjoyed it. 4 stars.

Captain Harlock

12-07-2005, 10:53 PM

Alot better than I expected the movie to be. I don't know why the critics had to slam it. I loved Batman Begins as much as the next guy, but to hold all superhero movies to that standard is a little crazy.

The main cast was pretty good, with only two exceptions. I felt that Jessica Alba as Sue Storm.. well, she can't act. She seemed so fake and not really involved in the character. Also, Julian McMahon as Dr. Doom. I love the show Nip/Tuck and well, he doesn't seem to change his acting from the show to the movie. It seems like he's always playing the same character, no matter what it is.

On to the positive. Chiklis is great from his TV roles ('Shield, Commish'), so he made a really convincing Thing. Ioan Gruffudd as Mr. Fantastic did a good job, I've never even seen or heard of the guy prior to this. Chris Evans as Johnny Storm made me think of Christopher O' Donnell as Robin in Batman Forever. Not that it's bad, but he infused a certain amount of comedy and energy into a film that needed it.

In general, the movie wasn't bad at all - I'd warrant a sequel.

SimpsonGuy100

12-08-2005, 08:27 AM

Meh, I've seen worse. I liked some parts of the film though (the "face" joke after that rock guy woke up unconciouse was really, really clever and I also liked the cameo by Stan Lee).

But besides that, it wasen't really my cup of cocoa, really. Besides, I never actually liked the Fantastic Four anyway.

C+

James Harvey

06-05-2007, 07:00 AM

Today sees the release of the new Fantastic Four: Extended Edition, the new DVD release adding twenty more minutes of footage back into the 2005 hit movie. And with Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer less than two weeks away, now seems like an ideal time to revisit this movie.

http://www.wfdvdreport.com/news/images/t-ffee.jpg (http://www.wfdvdreport.com/news/images/ffee.jpg)

Original Release Date: July 8th 2005
Studio: 20th Century Fox
Director: Tim Story
Screenwriter: Michael France, Mark Frost
Starring: Michael Chiklis, Ioan Gruffudd, Chris Evans, Jessica Alba, Julian McMahon, Maria Menounos, Kerry Washington, Hamish Linklater

Plot Summary: Marvel's first family of comic superheroes takes the world by storm as the longest running comic book series in history comes to the big screen. The Fantastic Four are: Reed Richards / Mr. Fantastic, who can elongate his body; Susan Storm / Invisible Woman, who not only can become invisible at will but can render other objects invisible; Johnny Storm / Human Torch, who can shoot fire from his finger tips and bend flame; and Ben Grimm / The Thing, a hideously misshapen monster with superhuman strength. Together, they battle the evil Doctor Doom.

Comments?

Related Discussion:
-Fantastic Four: Extended Edition DVD Talkback (Spoilers) (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=191505)
-Fantastic Four DVD Talkback (Spoilers) (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=156083)
-Fantastic Four: Getting to Know the Comics (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=144304)
-Fantastic Four: From the Big Screen to the Animated Small Screen (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=144878)

Spider-Man

06-11-2007, 01:48 PM

I thought the entended footage did help the movie abit and gave it more room to stretch its legs (pun intended). It wasn't just whipping by at a ridiculous speed but instead allowed us more time to enjoy with the characters. While some of the scenes were repetitive like Reed and Sue basically having the same conversation twice it did make the movie work. I loved that there was more with Alicia and Ben. I also found that one scene with Reed and Sue and a back closet looked unfinished. It doesn't dramatically change the movie but it helps it a little more.

HellCat

01-01-2008, 05:25 PM

Just saw this on TV.

Not as bad as I expected, but not great. The Fantastic Four have never really been high on my list of heroes. What really stood out to me as poor were the product placements (wow) and the attempts to be cool with all the extreme sports moments.
Alot of elements felt very predictable, like Ben's whole plot of transforming, turning back and then transforming again. I liked that overall plot but after he became human again it was fairly obvious where it was going. It also felt kinda cynical, since there was a strong subtext there that in effect Ben decides to give himself over to marketting.

The effects of the powers were pretty impressive, especially for Reed. There were a few moments with that I went "It's clearly a CG render" but overall they did pretty well with what could have looked very fake.

Doom's gotten alot of flack. Seemingly, he's stolen Normon Osborne's house and plot. He's revised origin helps tie him more easily to the four but the final battle felt like a cheap after thought, much like the Hulk vs the Absorbing Man fight.