A disturbing trend: Sharks on Swim

[pencilsharp]

Well, I'll be. Let me go away for a few weeks for College Finals, and they go and put Mission Hill on AS.
Now, excuse me for half-a-sec here, but has anyone else started to get discouraged with the direction that Swim seems to be taking? To wit: Animated shows that weren't good enough to make it on Network TV keep cropping up (Home Movies, Mission Hill (tho some may try to defend it :rolleyes: )) These sharks are churning the entire lineup! I mean, as I write this on Thursday night, they are showing an entire hour of HM. 60 minutes of squiggles is 59 and a half too many... And still no Harvey...
So, it's nice to know that homeless toons have someplace to slum, but I wish it weren't in MY pool.
Audi!
~pS~
Hey, "one more thing", I like the new smilies, but (hey kids, watch the flames!) why Bosko...?

[Brian Cruz]

Originally posted by pencilsharp
Hey, "one more thing", I like the new smilies, but (hey kids, watch the flames!) why Bosko...?

Because I requested it from Romey (the Official Toon Zone Smiley Guy) over on the feedback & suggestions board. And it perfectly complements my pride & joy, Looney Tunes & Merrie Melodies: The Early Years (http://www.toonzone.net/early-years/).

[Killtacular]

To wit: Animated shows that weren't good enough to make it on Network TV keep cropping up (Home Movies, Mission Hill (tho some may try to defend it ))

Uh, don't you think that's unfair?

The WB was expecting Simpsons-like ratings out of those shows, and that's impossible for any new cartoon.

The shows were not given a chance by the network. It had nothing to do with their quality, which was extremely high.

Again, it all comes down to this: If you don't like it, don't watch it.



Another thing. Please read the site from time to time, because we kind of post news that contradict what you're saying.

Like the hour of Home Movies. We've already said twice that Baby Blues is going in one of the Home Movies slots.

In other words, RELAX.

[Calhoun07]

Just to say a show isn't good because it doesn't get smashing ratings is wrong. Just off the top of my head, there are several shows from recent years that are damn good, and a hell of a lot better than many shows that get high ratings. Lateline, Lone Gunmen, Working, Clerks, The Tick (I know it's still on but it's not getting great ratings) are all shows that are just beyond the quality of the crap that gets high ratings like Survivor in Afghanastan and Who Wants to Win a Millionare Mail Order Bride or whatever crap is in fad right now.

Some times the best work goes unnoticed at the time it's out. It's ture for musicians and writers and artists who die then their work finally gets "discovered" and people suddenly see hey, this stuff WAS good! There are plenty of TV shows like that, shows that bombed then either got new life in syndication or got picked up by another network. Star Trek, anyone? Of course, for every Star Trek, there are ten shows worth their weight in gold that get thrown away because the networks want higher numbers. As if it's even logical to keep thinking we should let 3000 families in this nation decide what the rest of us see, but that's a topic for another thread.

I for one think Mission Hill was on par with the great shows that got cast away. It by no means "jumped the shark," as the title of your thread implies. It didn't even have a chance to get wet. The first couple episodes were a bit shaky getting off the ground, but you could tell alot of work went into this show and the characters and they built this thing to last.

I only hope that new episodes get made for Adult Swim. At least AS is there to bring back great shows the networks forgot. Now I wish there was such a network that would do this for those live action shows I mentioned!

[Choclatey Shatner]

Besides, speaking for those of us who didn't like Home Movies, they seem intent on keeping those programs in the first hour and giving the second to Williams Street, and as long as they keep doing that, they can do whatever they want to the first hour. I'll just not watch it.

:bosko: hehhe. Bosko is the man.

[Calhoun07]

I hated Home Movies when it first came on. But I turned out to really like it. It's got a style of humor you either get or you don't, I don't know if there's much middle ground with a show like that. It's got a very dry sense of humor, which fits my personality like a glove!

[CookieS]

I always hear this kind of non-sense talk when people email me. It seems Adult Swim is going contrary to what some people want it to become. Let me state my case.

First, I have recieved emails from the anime community that ask about new anime shows coming to adult swim. Cowboy Bebop is great, but to be brutally honest, its not getting spectacular ratings. Now, like you've discussed before, ratings have little to do with quality....because they are just too many exceptions to the rule.

The people that DO care about ratings are 1. AOL Time Warner Coporate and 2. Advertisers. Now who do you think has the money? The fans/creators at Cartoon Network or their bosses?

I have also recieved emails from other animation fans. A lot of people want to pull in some retro shows or things already owned by other companies. That sounds nice, but does anyone realize how much money up-front you need to buy the licensed rights to a program? Since the WB and CN are now sister networks, it seems natural that they are trying to give a second wind to previous adult orientented animation they have on file. Doesn't it make sense to you?

Also, to that comment against Home Movies, I think you're in the minority there. Home Movies has consistently been the highest rated show in its time slot since it aired (As compared to whatever else was airing before hand). You don't have to like the show or animation style, but to just bash it with no reguard for the fans is a bit uncalled for. Also, Birdman is still in production and there simply isn't enough episodes. It will return though.

Finally, rather than complaining, I'd like to see what you'd do with Adult Swim. I'm open to hear new ideas, and to find out what would make 'your' pool a safer place to swim.

[Lepodactylous Man]

I am encouraged by CN's move to promote AS and provide an outlet for animation that isn't going to become a movie franchise or sell a bunch of toys.

The WB was expecting Simpsons-like ratings out of those shows, and that's impossible for any new cartoon.

Now who do you think has the money? The fans/creators at Cartoon Network or their bosses?

We need a creative-open outlet so that we can afford to make mistakes and be able to come back and try again we tiny lil' animators/cool idea guys). I'd rather be the ugly duckling than the beautiful white goose that they stuff their pillows with.


Finally, rather than complaining, I'd like to see what you'd do with Adult Swim. I'm open to hear new ideas, and to find out what would make 'your' pool a safer place to swim.

Well, why not do a request show for the 2nd AS night (i.e. Thurs. sort of similar to J. Bravo request... I think that the vast majority of us are competent enough to vote weekly online to determine a 3 hour slot of programming)

[Killtacular]

Mission Hill will not be renewed.

But all 13 episodes will air, including the 7 that never aired on The WB.

[Calhoun07]

I'd like to see a request type programming for Thursday night, but I want to see Adult Swim grow more before they get to that place.

After getting Mission Hill, the only other WB animated show I REALLY want to see on Adult Swim is the Oblongs. Baby Blues was good, but not quite as good as those two. Getting those shows on Adult Swim would be a great step forward, IMO.

The problem with trying to come up with ideas for Adult Swim programming, well, we only know cartoons we have seen that the networks ignored. So that's about all we can suggest. I might have some ideas for new shows, but I'll leave that up to Adult Swim to decide what to do, tho I would love to see that Aquaman show and a Superfriends show, as was previously suggested on another thread.

[Lepodactylous Man]

Oh man... "The Oblongs"
Good call Cal!
That was a series that didn't get a chance...
I liked what little I saw of it!

There are just enough funny out-takes from the old "Super Friends" cartoon to actually do at least 2 seasons of 15 min. shorts like Space Ghost.
The first time I actually saw one of the "Aqua Man" spots
(especially the grocery store, because ironically, I saw something like that <minus the fish telepathy> happen late night shopping)
I laughed really hard..
I mean....
Shake that butt.... fish-boy

[pencilsharp]

:eek: Jeez... I'm beginning to feel like the Human Torch over here. All right, I concede that I was being just a tad unfair, but I still say a big fat "no" to both Mission Hill and Home Movies. Just call it "taste", or you can call it "potzrebie" if you will. There are much better shows that would fit, such as The Oblongs.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go collect all the marshmallows and weenies I left out at the end of my first post. :D
Audi!
~pS~

[Calhoun07]

Hey, pencilsharp, you don't have to feel bad about what you posted. Stand by your views! We can always agree to disagree if nothing else! ;)

[pencilsharp]

Aw, I know, Calhoun, I'm just too lazy to build my own fire. :bosko:

[Sinople]

Oblongs would be a perfect fit on AS. So would God The Devil and Bob.

[Naraht]

God the Devil & Bob didn't do anything for me..the promos looked good, and the pilot blew.

hihohiho..it's off to work I go...

[Calhoun07]

Many of the animated shows NBC picked up were failures for their own good, Sammy being the worst, but who knows? Maybe some of them just didn't get the chance they deserved?

[pencilsharp]

Oh no, they got the chance they deserved, straight into the ratings dungheap.

For a network that has some of the "best" shows on TV, NBC just hasn't got a clue when it comes to animation development. Then again, they did just sell their entire Saturday morning lineup to Discovery Communications, so they obviously don't understand:
1. kids.
2. teenagers (but to be honest, who does?)
3. animation fans.

To work, animation can't exist for its own sake. It must have some creative ideas (Zim...) or strong writing (Simpsons...) or something to differentiate it from all the other toons out there. We now have: CN, Boomerang, Nick, and Noggin, not to mention Kids WB! That is a LOT of competition.

So... NBC's animated series died a quiet death due to lack of exposure.

And to think, we never missed it. At least I didn't. Now, if we can just get Peter Cheung back on TV...

[Fata Morgana]

*comf* "Disturbing trend"? Actually, I am quite comforted and pleased by CN's willingness to give shows a second chance. There are many animated gems out there that the networks didn't have a clue about. The Maxx is one that comes to mind (though I doubt if any more episodes will ever be made of that series, despite it's brilliance.) Clerks, Freakazoid, ReBoot and The Tick are several others that I can think of. All of these series were kicked off the air, but it doesn't neccessarily follow that they sucked.

As for Home Movies -- it is a matter of taste, after all. I personally like Home Movies, though I actually think that Science Court was funnier (HM still beats out Dr. Katz by a mile, though). I've never seen Mission Hill, but I'd be willing to give it a try before I pass judgment.

Fata Morgana

[spectre316]

Originally posted by calhoun07
Many of the animated shows NBC picked up were failures for their own good, Sammy being the worst, but who knows? Maybe some of them just didn't get the chance they deserved?

Sammy was disappointing.. and I am (or was) a huge fan of David Spade.

I think if the NBC animated shows were giving some time, I think there would be vast improvements.

[pencilsharp]

There are many animated gems out there that the networks didn't have a clue about. The Maxx is one that comes to mind...
I will grant you that, Freakazoid and Reboot. Good points on all, but I have to disagree on the Tick. Not because it was not a good show for it was one of the few bright spots back in Power Ranger Land. I would argue because Fox, at the time at least, was the maverick who single-handedly resuscitated animation in general and kids' programming in particular. Now, sadly, Fox seems to have lost their collective cajones and is playing it safe by playing it stupid (Temptation Island...?)
Clerks never floated my boat, but ABC doesn't like airing non-in-house animation, or so it seems. Any mouseketeers out there can correct me if I'm wrong.

All of these series were kicked off the air, but it doesn't neccessarily follow that they sucked.
And I'll grant you that, too. Many great series have been give das boot before their time, and not just animated series certainly.
Unfortunately, I don't believe that The Maxx will ever air again. MTV has sworn off animation, at least in-house. The kids over at VH1 have apparently decided that there may still be life in Toons over at Viacom, as shown by their recent airings of Ren and Stimpy. Whether they will actually pursue this by... say... putting together a toon block on VH1 (ahem, anyone in Vialand listening??) is not clear. But it would be a shame to see Maxx and Daria put to pasture because of stupid MTV (Armani) suits.
BTW, aren't there legal problems between Sam Keith and MTV over the Maxx? Seems like I had heard that some time ago...