Canada passes same-sex marriage bill

[Spider-Man]

I rarely post here but given the great news and huge steps my home country is taking I thought I just had to post something up.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1119954631626_33?s_name=&no_ads=


Canada will become the third country in the world to officially sanction same-sex marriage.

In a 158 to 133 vote, the House of Commons adopted Bill C-38 -- the controversial legislation legalizing same-sex marriage from coast to coast -- on its third and final reading Tuesday night.

The Liberals had the support of almost all New Democrat and Bloc Quebecois MPs for the vote.

The bill will become official once it receives Senate approval, which is expected by the end of July. An earlier Conservative motion to send the bill back to committee was voted down 158 to 127.

"(This) is about the Charter of Rights,'' Prime Minister Paul Martin said earlier Tuesday.

"We are a nation of minorities. And in a nation of minorities, it is important that you don't cherry-pick rights.

"A right is a right and that is what this vote tonight is all about."

The decision marks the end of a long and divisive debate, with fierce opposition coming from Conservative members, religious groups, and even members of the Liberal Party.

The legislation applies to civic weddings at public venues like city halls and courthouses. Religious groups still have the right of refusal to sanctify same-sex marriages, but opponents of the bill are vowing to keep up their fight -- fearing they could be sued for refusing to carry out same-sex marriages.

"(This) is effectively exposing people of faith to persecution and prosecution," said Charles McVety, president of the Canada Family Action Coalition. "I want to make it very clear today that this is the beginning of the formal fight against the definition of marriage."

Conservative Leader Stephen Harper, meanwhile, is promising that he won't let the issue rest. He says he'll bring back the same-sex marriage law for another vote if he becomes prime minister.

"There will be a chance to revisit this in a future Parliament," Harper said. "Our intention is to have a free vote."

He also repeated his claim that the law lacks legitimacy because it passed with the support of the separatist Bloc party.

"I don't think Canadians are going to accept as a final word a decision taken by only a minority of federalist MPs," he said. But Harper didn't specify how he would address the issue if the Tories were to form the next government.

Liberal Justice Minister Irwin Cotler said Harper is going to have to come clean and acknowledge that he would have to invoke the Constitution's notwithstanding clause to override the new law.

"They're going to have to acknowledge that they want to override the (Charter of Rights); override constitutional-law decisions in nine jurisdictions in this country; override a unanimous decision of the Supreme Court of Canada; override the rule of law in this country," Cotler said.

The clause is available to provinces to override federal laws that
intrude on provincial jurisdiction.

But almost every provincial and territorial government has legalized same-sex marriage; and the new legislation will ensure that four "hold-out" jurisdictions -- Alberta, Prince Edward Island, Nunavut and the Northwest Territories -- must now strike down their traditional marriage laws.

"It's an historic moment, it's about equality for gays and lesbians," said NDP MP Libby Davies.

Alberta Premier Ralph Klein, who's "strongly opposed" to the bill on moral grounds, acknowledged Tuesday that little can be done now to stop same-sex marriages in his province.

"Since this is federal legislation, to use the notwithstanding clause as contained in our own Marriage Act would be frivolous," Klein told reporters in Calgary. "It wouldn't stand up in any court of law. So there are some other options that we would have to consider."

Klein said although some members of his caucus are threatening to use everything at their disposal to get around the legislation, "there are no legal weapons; there's nothing left in the arsenal."

As expected, about three dozen Liberal MPs voted against the bill. Martin declared it a free vote for backbench MPs, but cabinet ministers were under orders to vote in favour of the bill.

That prompted a junior cabinet minister to resign and return to the backbenches rather than vote in favour of same sex marriage.

Joe Comuzzi, the minister of state for economic development in northern Ontario, informed the prime minister of his decision in the early morning.

"I promised faithfully to the people of Thunder Bay-Superior North that I would defend the traditional definition of marriage," he explained to reporters on Parliament Hill.

After the same-sex vote was put to bed, the House immediately adjourned for the summer, thus ending one of the stormiest sessions of parliament in Canadian history.

It's great to see more equal treatment for the gay community. Also, the Canadian province of New Brunswick has now legalized gay marriage:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1119562709644_114971909?s_name=&no_ads=

[Sailor Chibi Otaku]

That kicks so much ass!! :anime:

*waves the Rainbow flag around* Not for me but for all gays and lesbians. :)

[the Amanda]

Yeah Canada! Setting a good example for us down here in the USA. (I live in Massachusetts, another good example) :D

[Sailor Chibi Otaku]

Same-sex marriage was already legal here in Quebec. Alberta, too. Now, it's everywhere!! :anime:

[Tobias]

I am SO moving to Canada. You guys are open minded about everything up there. I love America, but Canada is actually the place with the streets paved with gold.

[Demonic Raven]

I applaud Canada for being the better country in this situation, compared to the US of course.

[kiddiesunshine]

As an American who is tired of all the crap that goes on here, Canada sounds like such a magical place. I'd love to visit. But I'd be afraid of corrupting somebody with my American views.

[Peter Paltridge]

Not to change the subject, but what's this I've been hearing about someone in Canada trying to make it illegal to say her name, and that law almost taking effect? If that can really be done under your constitution, that's hilarious.

[Sailor Chibi Otaku]

As an American who is tired of all the crap that goes on here, Canada sounds like such a magical place. I'd love to visit. But I'd be afraid of corrupting somebody with my American views.
Wouldn't happen. We'd make fun of you if you do (and "you" doesn't mean you yourself personally here). Well, most of us will. We'll also say that we're better than you BUT we will agree with many (bad) things you say about us. :D

Well.. from my perspective, anyway, as I've had my fair share of debates and such with Americans. I won most of them. :p

Let's just say we're patriotic but we don't hide from our flaws. We admit them. Just don't mock Tim Horton's.

[Fone Bone]

For those who say that Gay marriages corrupts the sanctity of marriage I would just like to point out that Married By America and Who Wants to Marry a Multi-Millionaire did it first.

[EightOh]

Canada: Land of the Free.

[TimTwoFace]

I'm proud of our country for being so open-minded and accepting of this issue. Really, it's never bothered me at all.

As long as everyone has equal rights (and they do), and the various churches can still excercise their personal beliefs and refuse gay marriages if they like (and they can), then it might as well be law.

I never bought the argument that it was against one's religion to see gay marriages happen in their region of the world. I mean, if there are same-sex partnerships already, what difference in God's eyes does a piece of paper make? I don't care for the idea, personally - BUT I'm not against it, either, because it doesn't infringe on anyone's lifestyle in the least. It's always been a non-issue to me - and I'm proud to see that Canada is the third country in the world to make same-sex marriages legal. (Belguim and the Netherlands are the others.)

Of course, it's not LAW yet - it still has to pass the Senate and so forth. But, really, the toughest obstacle is behind them. (Take that, Stephen Harper, you smug little sonofableep!)

Now remember everyone, this is the Cafe and political threads like this are still on shaky ground - so everyone, irrespective of your views, play nice, play civil, and play respectfully.

-Tim

[Alex Toon]

For those who say that Gay marriages corrupts the sanctity of marriage I would just like to point out that Married By America and Who Wants to Marry a Multi-Millionaire did it first.Truth be told, FB. Truth be told.

[kiddiesunshine]

Wouldn't happen. We'd make fun of you if you do (and "you" doesn't mean you yourself personally here). Well, most of us will. We'll also say that we're better than you BUT we will agree with many (bad) things you say about us. :D

Well.. from my perspective, anyway, as I've had my fair share of debates and such with Americans. I won most of them. :p

Let's just say we're patriotic but we don't hide from our flaws. We admit them. Just don't mock Tim Horton's.Oh gee, thanks. You know though, Since I'm actually afraid of saying something stupid, the likelihood of me doing so is pretty slim. Besides that, I'm not the typical American, so it's all good. I think I might be Canadian at heart.

[sdp]

It's good to see open minded people in this forum, other forums i visit (like teen titans and pokemon) since most are kids they just post what their parents told them. :yawn:

[Space Kitty]

It would be nice if people could applaud the decision in Canada without bashing the U.S. :sad:

[Tay the Cat]

For those who say that Gay marriages corrupts the sanctity of marriage I would just like to point out that Married By America and Who Wants to Marry a Multi-Millionaire did it first.

And so did the legalization of no-fault divorce.

This is excellent news. I'm so moving to Canada.

[Sailor Chibi Otaku]

It would be nice if people could applaud the decision in Canada without bashing the U.S. :sad:
Get used to it. People bash us all the time and you know what we do? For the most part, we laugh WITH the people who do because at times, they're right.

And you seriously NEED a sense of humour and get over the fact that you people aren't perfect. Neither are we and that we can take jabs. That's a lesson you need to learn.

[Artimus Gigan]

Get used to it. People bash us all the time and you know what we do? For the most part, we laugh WITH the people who do because at times, they're right.

And you seriously NEED a sense of humour and get over the fact that you people aren't perfect. Neither are we and that we can take jabs. That's a lesson you need to learn.Difference between Canadian and American bashing

Canadian bashing usualy involves in a more lighthearted joking manner much like in the same vein of Poland because it poses no substancial international influance

American bashing is a more angry in context and usualy involves burning objects of a political nature and involves conversations of wanting to kill civilians or people of high power of that country

Same league, different ballpark

[EightOh]

I think I might be Canadian at heart.You know, I wanted to move to Canada in the second grade...

And I think curling's kind of neat.

Yep. I'm at least a little bit Canadian at heart. :D

[Space Kitty]

Get used to it. People bash us all the time and you know what we do? For the most part, we laugh WITH the people who do because at times, they're right.
I don't care what country was bashed. I don't like the bashing itself. It takes away from the great achievment of this decision by making the people who applaud it (and bash the U.S.) look like fools. I like to applaud it based on its own merit. It's a good thing in general, not because "it's better than in the States."



And you seriously NEED a sense of humour and get over the fact that you people aren't perfect. Neither are we and that we can take jabs. That's a lesson you need to learn.You need to grow up and stop stalking me just because I put you in your place in another thread.
BTW, it's nice that you care so much about me that you'd put me in your sig. :anime:

[Sailor Chibi Otaku]

Me? Stalk you? How am I stalking you? Hmmm? Oh wait. You can't answer that. You can't tell others to "grow up" when you yourself need some growing up to do when all you do is accuse people of stalking you, WHICH WE ARE NOT. If anyone were to stalk anyone on here, they'd be banned in a heartbeat.

Might I remind you that this is a PUBLIC message board and if we see something that people say that's either interesting, silly or even dumb, we will quote that person. See? I quoted you because you said something rather inane (to ME).

I only have a quote of yours in my signature because it's funny. You are a walking contradiction. Yeah, I know you don't know what that means. L-o-o-k i-t- u-p.

I have no idea who YOU are so I won't believe a word you'll say. I can play childish games, too, you know.

And if you don't stop, you'll get banned.

[Artimus Gigan]

Just to play devil's advocate here,

The entire establishment of marriage was not religion based at all. It was pretty much made for the aquisition of ownership for various items(land, money, rank, etc.). Man & Woman got married, had offspring to carry on family weath and name. it was pretty much cut and dry. Religions adapted it into their texts because marriages were part of a stable society. Other forms of it were Poligamy which involved multiple wives, however that lead to confusion about heirs, it also attributed largely to the fall of the Ottoman Empire. Only fairly recently was love and affection the main part of getting married. However 1/3 of marriges in the US end in divource. The main argument that spouces have are also about money. So with that sucessful marriages are really a combination of two things love and money.

Now then being that scientists and such still have not determined weather homosexuality is choice based or genetic, there are still many quirks and differences between men and women. For example (I think was discover magazine or somthing along those lines) a test was performed where two separate groups(comprised of one all Men and one all Women) each with peopel of different sexual oritentation(gay,straight, transgender). It was pretty much this it was how they reacted to the precense of a baby in different situations. Men and Women both reacted differently(IIRC women appeared to be a bit more hands on, while the men appeared more reluctant in some situations). Gay and Straight both reacted the same way, however the Transgender people reacted the way that their previous sex was(like before they had the surgery done they was a woman who became a man, they reacted the same way the Gay and straight women reacted). So with that in mind would a child growing up in a gay household get deprived by not experiancing male and female mentalities? A gay marriege is also not expected to have anything come to fruitation, so even though both partners are capable of being able to reproduce, they pretty much shot themself in the genes because men will never reproduce with other men(besides even if they could it would doom the human population with 100% being able to reproduce). Granted there is the choice of adoption and such but that's not really a right but more or less a privelage(there are straight people who should never be parents in the first place). They could arrange for a surrogate mother to provide the female component(egg) for the embryo. But there are also two ways to go about this. The first would be pretty much male impregnating the female the natural way, but that also goes against the "don't sleep outside of marriage" rule. Then there's artifical incemination, which is pretty much hit or miss or it sometimes creates more than you bargained for(i.e. Twins, Triplets, and the like).

Pretty much my own views on the matter is this, I don't really care, I'm not gay, and the less guys going after women the less competition I have..

[Sailor Chibi Otaku]

Pretty much my own views on the matter is this, I don't really care, I'm not gay, and the less guys going after women the less competition I have..
You won't be sad if a woman you're courting falls in love with another woman? ;)

[Artimus Gigan]

You won't be sad if a woman you're courting falls in love with another woman? ;)I'm not into the whole butch type...

[Sailor Chibi Otaku]

If they're not butch?

I'm only teasing, by the way.

[Artimus Gigan]

If they're not butch?

That would be extremely rare, and if so...
Half the human race is female, so I'd have a few more 1 in a million shots

My vacation to California many years back co-incided with the Gay pride Parade, I did not see a womanly Lesbian anywhere...they all either looked like Ellen or Construction workers

It also made me realise why human cloning is a bad thing.....I saw an entire village of village people

[TimTwoFace]

Hey all, I'm just stepping in to tell everyone to cool it with the nation-bashing. Obviously this is a touchy subject, but there's no reason for anyone to start bashing another's country for various reasons. Canadian, American, or any other...it doesn't matter.

So...please, just cool it. Otherwise, warnings may have to be doled out, and I don't want to have to do that. Just be civil, please.

-Tim

[NozeNuggets]

(Or else, they'll close the thread down!)

Anyway, will Rosie O'Donnell be going north if the bill flies through?

[Fone Bone]

You need to grow up and stop stalking me just because I put you in your place in another threadYOU need to stop misusing the word "stalking". It's a very serious accusation and the women that I know that have been stalked would much prefer behavior like Sailor Chibi Otaku's than feeling afraid for their lives.

[Yash]

All of you seem to be forgetting the real reason as to why Canada is so great.

They have a leaf on their flag :p

Joking aside (though the flag really owns), this is great news. Sadly, with the corrupt bible-thumping leaders of America, this probably will never surface the states.

Land of the free :yawn:

[Sailor Chibi Otaku]

It's just a maple leaf. I don't see how anyone can get the pot leaf from that.

[Tak Mazé]

And I was planning on moving to Canada anyway ;) Now it's even more incentive ^^ I have my options opened even wider.

[kiddiesunshine]

Thank you, Takashi. This thread was taking quite a turn.

[Mr Cat Dog]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Spain

Now Spain have followed up on this...

[TimTwoFace]

Wow, look at all the countries just jumping on this bandwagon. :)

As for the US passing such a bill...I doubt it'll happen any time soon, but it may happen in a few states. Massachusetts has it already, and I'm aware Vermont has something similar; I can see other states like those on the west coast or the eastern seaboard doing something similar.

A number of Canadian provinces (first Ontario, then BC, then Quebec, then Alberta, and then the others slowly followed) legalized same-sex weddings years before the federal government did the same. (Of course, it's not legal YET, but it's pretty much a done deal at this point.)

As for that pot leaf thing...that's not really suitable for this thread. Let's just leave it at that.

-Tim

[Cartman]

This is wonderful. Canada looks like a safe haven for same-sex couples.

[EightOh]

Wow, look at all the countries just jumping on this bandwagon. :)

As for the US passing such a bill...I doubt it'll happen any time soon, but it may happen in a few states. Massachusetts has it already, and I'm aware Vermont has something similar; I can see other states like those on the west coast or the eastern seaboard doing something similar.Sick thing is that even in places like Oregon, constitutional amendments to ban gay marriage were voted through in depressingly easy fashion.

"Who needs 'freedom for all' when it's so fun to oppress those who don't have the numbers to stop you? It's not like the whole reason this place was a representative republic in the first place was to protect the minority from being subjected to the cruel whims of the majority, or anything!"

[Zebi]

Just wanted to say that I'm very pleased to see same-sex marriage made legal in Canada. :)


Not to change the subject, but what's this I've been hearing about someone in Canada trying to make it illegal to say her name, and that law almost taking effect? If that can really be done under your constitution, that's hilarious.
I believe that you may be thinking of Karla Homolka, who who is seeking a court injunction for a media gag and protection following her release from prison. This CTV article (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1120180847093_4/?hub=Canada) covers the latest news on the subject.

[Chris Wood]

That kicks so much ass!!


Hayoo!! I'm not touching that one


Anyway, great time to be in the plastic groom figurine business in Canada. Double the sales!

[TimTwoFace]

I believe that you may be thinking of Karla Homolka, who who is seeking a court injunction for a media gag and protection following her release from prison. This CTV article (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1120180847093_4/?hub=Canada) covers the latest news on the subject.
Oy, that's a whole other ball of wax; now, I know that she's technically served her time and all, and deserves privacy - but at the same time, the media can keep hounding her (as long as they stay off her property) for all I care. I mean, considering what she did, she deserves it. Just because she'll be out of jail and a free woman, that doesn't mean we have to forgive her - we just need to give her a chance to have a life of sorts. That's what the legal system is for, after all.

What I don't understand is...well...if she has been told a specific place to live in Canada, why didn't anyone send her to some remote outpost in Nunavut? That's just as legit a place to live in as Montreal, legally speaking. :D

-Tim

[Scythemantis]

I feel better knowing that Space Kitty accuses EVERYONE of "stalking". She thinks I "stalked" her because we had one fight over PM last year, in which I sent only five messages tops and only the last two were angry. That's the only time I've EVER fought with her or said anything negative to her at all, too, so I wish she would drop it.

But seriously, someone needs to explain to her that sending a PM within the forum cannot possibly count as "stalking" under ANY definition. It is harmless communication exactly the same as replying on the public board. Most of us have our AIM names, e-mails and much more personal information on our public profiles anyway. Stalking is something very rare, very serious, and very complex. It is NOT sending text messages to someone or reading their posts within the same board... yhose things are what message forums are for. There's a link right in all of our profiles to view every post we've ever made, and it's used all the time. I'm always reading the post history of more interesting/entertaining/cool people here, or my own to find threads I've forgotten all about.

But ANYWAY, just because some of the most powerful americans are against gay marriage doesn't mean Americans as a whole are any more against it than anyone else. After all, it only passed in Canada by a relatively small margin. But that's not really a stereotype that offends me. If I have a problem with any american stereotype, it's the fact that apparently, Mcdonalds is the #1 thing associated with us in the countries. Ugh. Listen, guys: NOBODY eats Mcdonalds. ESSPECIALLY Americans! They sell less food per restaraunt than virtually any other restaraunt in the country. They only stay in buisiness with stock trading and sponsorship deals.

[Zach]

Ah, Canada. I'm not even touching this issue. Let's just say I don't approve. (Not just because of my religion)

[SSJPabs]

Don't forget, Spain has legalized full-on marriage.

[Stewie]

Listen, guys: NOBODY eats Mcdonalds. ESSPECIALLY Americans!Funny, in this thread, that's the most disagreeable statement yet.

[CryptiniteDemon]

Hayoo!! I'm not touching that one


Anyway, great time to be in the plastic groom figurine business in Canada. Double the sales!
Yeah, but they sell brides too, so they're breaking even. Polygamists is where the money's at:p

[TimTwoFace]

The real question is, I wonder if, when this bill is passed, it means that same-sex divorces are legal, too.

I remember a few years ago, about a year after same-sex marriages were permitted legally in some provinces, one gay couple wanted a divorce - but they couldn't do it, because the legislation had yet to be passed.

:anime:

Just something to consider.

-Tim

[Sailor Chibi Otaku]

I feel better knowing that Space Kitty accuses EVERYONE of "stalking". She thinks I "stalked" her because we had one fight over PM last year, in which I sent only five messages tops and only the last two were angry. That's the only time I've EVER fought with her or said anything negative to her at all, too, so I wish she would drop it.

But seriously, someone needs to explain to her that sending a PM within the forum cannot possibly count as "stalking" under ANY definition. It is harmless communication exactly the same as replying on the public board. Most of us have our AIM names, e-mails and much more personal information on our public profiles anyway. Stalking is something very rare, very serious, and very complex. It is NOT sending text messages to someone or reading their posts within the same board... yhose things are what message forums are for. There's a link right in all of our profiles to view every post we've ever made, and it's used all the time. I'm always reading the post history of more interesting/entertaining/cool people here, or my own to find threads I've forgotten all about.
I got two PMs (so far) from "it". I say "it" because the user info is all a lie (not that I care. I look at nearly everyon'e user info just to see what's up). Not only that, Space Kitty thinks that QUOTING their posts is a form of stalking. I'm being harassed by Space Kitty and I want it to stop. I can take jabs and jokes but harassing me is a different story.

------------------

That's so OT. Anywho, having same sex marriage legal here will have gays and lesbians from all around the world flocking here to get married. Mwha!! :D

[Artimus Gigan]

Anyone ever consider this?

You know all those single people in Canada who's parents pester them on why they havn't married yet...


Now the parents can double the list of eligible people that they know...


Also I'm not sure that everyone and their uncle who's gay is going to be flocking to Canada...mainly because

A) Gas Prices

B) Plane Ticket Prices(depending on where you're from)

C) Real Estate prices in Canada

[Sailor Chibi Otaku]

Well, in order to travel in Canada via the plane, the prices are ridiculous, whereas if we were to fly to Europe, it's cheaper to stay there for a long time.

Example: for a three day trip to Nova Scotia, it could have cost my brother a bit over $1100. I was curious, so I wanted to know how much it'll cost me to go to Ireland for a month and know what? It would cost me $1100 to stay for a MONTH. Well, about $1100.

Right now, the average gas price is about 98.4 cents a litre.

[Artimus Gigan]

Well, in order to travel in Canada via the plane, the prices are ridiculous, whereas if we were to fly to Europe, it's cheaper to stay there for a long time.

Example: for a three day trip to Nova Scotia, it could have cost my brother a bit over $1100. I was curious, so I wanted to know how much it'll cost me to go to Ireland for a month and know what? It would cost me $1100 to stay for a MONTH. Well, about $1100.

Right now, the average gas price is about 98.4 cents a litre.
I'm not talking about Canadian Gas prices...

I've driven to canada before...from new Jersey

[Sailor Chibi Otaku]

Oh!! I gotcha.

Arm and a leg.

[Anthonynotes]

Glad to see Canada and Spain making gay marriage legal. Guess on the vaguely remote off-chance I ever want to get hitched and not just duplicate the house key down at True Value, I can plan a road trip to Ontario or something. :-)

As for gay divorce, I think that's part of the same legislation (or being taken care of as well)...

As for happening in the U.S., I doubt it anytime soon (especially with stuff like the "Defense of Marriage Act" as a federal law and people voting in large numbers against gay marriage on ballot initiatives----and as long *as* deciding such civil rights matters winds up being a ballot initiative issue instead of a legislative issue [if the Civil Rights Act of '64 were a "ballot initiative", I doubt equal rights for Blacks would've come along quite as quickly...]...).

-B.