Be honest: Which JL character has received the coldest reception overall by fans?

[Platinum V]

Personally, I believe that it's Diana and I can't understand why. No matter what the creators seem to do to her, many JL fans diss it. Anything Batman does is cool. Shayera's the teams biggest bitc- and fans find her cool. WW gets her invisible jet and fans deem it unnecessary. She has some great moments and they are ignored. When she has a spotlight episode it's deemed the season's weakest.

Why does Diana, for the most part, receive such a cold reception from many JL fans? And please don't say that her character is inconsistent. She's been loving in episodes, kind in others...*****y in some, angry in a lot.

My only gripe with the way she's portrayed is her sometimes lack of emotion. I know that she's a strong willed woman and that she's a warrior but I do feel that there were times when she should have broken down into tears like when she was exiled, when she was ultimately allowed to return home or when ares insinuated that he was her father.

[Knight]

I think its Diana as well. I love her but a lot of people dont.

[Batman's Biggest Fan]

I'd say Diana gets a cold reception because for the most part her spotlight episodes suck. I mean you know how Cyborg gets the worst spotlights on Teen Titans, well the same goes to Wonder Woman on Justice League or Justice League Unlimited.

[Silly McGooses]

?

I like all of the original 7, and the only reason i don't like most of the JLUers is because they've gotten no character development, not even named onscreen. they're just...there.

[Silverbolt]

I would say Wonder Woman if she didn't deserve it. Horrible character, and one that I would be thrilled to see killed off.

I can say Hawkgirl because everyone and their mother beleives that she's a traitor even though what she did wasn't as bad as what WW was prepared to do. but she has a solid fan base and is probably the best character in the series on top of it.

Really none of them have gotten a reception that wasn't warrented. WW is a horrible character, who usually headlines the weakest episodes, believes that she should be allowed to get away with things and then slam others relentlessly when they do something that while similar isn't of the same magnatude as what she was willing to do. The first season really doomed her character, by the time that it was shown that she was a woman it was really to late to save it. I still say in season one she was more of a man then most of the league.

[Bird Boy]

I like all of the original 7, and the only reason i don't like most of the JLUers is because they've gotten no character development, not even named onscreen. they're just...there.

Well then you can really not like the JLUers if we don't know what they're about. Disliking the show for that maybe...but delving into everyones origins would be a big, big job. That and we'd end up with a bunch of "The Greatest Story Never Told", which a lot of fans seem to have disliked...

As for the topic...I honestly have no problem with any of the League characters. I've had no problem with Superman's "weak" portrayal that so many dislike. I just really don't have a problem with the characterization in the show...

-BB

[Krypton_Knight]

Diana. And it's largely undeserved. The actress was rather wooden in S1, but has grown quite nicely into the role.

Hawk and Dove also come to mind.

KK

[Kieralinn]

Diana. And it's largely undeserved. The actress was rather wooden in S1, but has grown quite nicely into the role.

Hawk and Dove also come to mind.

KK

I agreement. Hawk and Dove...ick! But the is it them or just the ep we didn't like?

[BeastBoyWonder]

Diana because she's written inconsistently and is completely uninteresting. I remember from previous observations that I like the McDuffie WW episodes (like the one with Audrey and all that?), though. There are a few Diana episodes that are tolerable but by and large its not really my thing.

[Phantasm]

Diana. But she deserves all the bashing she gets. That woman standing beside Batman and Superman is an imposter. She's not whom I would call THE Wonder Woman.:mad:

[Arkangel]

As for the topic...I honestly have no problem with any of the League characters. I've had no problem with Superman's "weak" portrayal that so many dislike. I just really don't have a problem with the characterization in the show...

-BB
Neither do I. At all, really. I think it's fine.

And I also think plenty of the new characters introduced in the past year have been developed, like the Question, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Huntress, etc.

[BigFatHairyDeal]

Hey folks,

I'd say that Diana and Wally get the fewest superlative compliments from the fans of the show. Considering that there are far more WW-centric episodes than Flash ones, I guess the Amazon gets the coldest reception. I'd agree with the above posters that a lot of it has to do with the quality of WW feature episodes.

Shayera probably draws the most amount of negative remarks, but at least those are offset by the rave ones. I can't really recall too many fans strongly supporting the animated Diana.

Too bad. Wonder Woman is one of my favorite characters from DC.

[A.J]

Diana it is.

BTAS, STAS, but WWTAS? I mean, Bats and Supes they both had their own series but WW did not. However, as far as I can list them only Paradise Lost, Maid of Honor, Fury and The Balance seemed center on her.

In the meantime, we get more Bats and Supes but she is left behind. As one of the big 3 she should have more personality and at least some more development besides punching guys and being angry!

[Krypton_Knight]

I agreement. Hawk and Dove...ick! But the is it them or just the ep we didn't like?
Both, is my guess.

[Legend1203]

Diana... probably because she came off as a fresh-of -the boat, nieve, and spoiled princess...
In the meantime, we get more Bats and Supes but she is left behind. As one of the big 3 she should have more personality and at least some more development besides punching guys and being angry!
I totally agree with this ...

And Really that relationship with the BM really stinks:mad:

[Quintessence]

I feel like Cyborg, Diana is held back with "Anything you can do, I can do better... but I'll be all angsty while I'm doing it so you won't want to spend time with me."

Let's be honest, the only people in the JL that ever had two sets of emotions were the Flash and Green Lantern (which was cocky or confused and hard @ss or human still trying to grasp all the weirdness around him respectively). Bats was Bats, Superman was the idol, Hawkgirl was the angry riddle. The characters were just driven by stereotype.

I think I'm a little bit open minded because I wasn't heavy into the comics when I first saw JL, so I felt treated to get to know what I did from Diana. Apparently, her world isn't ours. we don't feel the same way. So what everyone takes as being cool and reserved, she's just acting like she knows how. Face it people, the Japanese are vastly different from us. And even if we learn the language and stay in the country for 3 years, we'll learn how to interact, but our innate mannerisms will still stay the way the are, making some of the locals feel that we are weird.

I say it's mostly Diana because most of us started watching the show because of Bats, Supes, the Flash, even Green Lantern. Established franchises we know and love. Since most of us didn't develop WW love, we see episodes focused on her taking away from people we really want to focus on.

But I said mostly.

Because I feel Vixen has had an unfair hand dealt to her. Hawkgirl is the Raven of JLU: Removed, aloof, yet considered to be bad @ss because of her wit and willingness to hurt something. She is an established character (in JLU) that fanboys and girls alike flocked to. And how do we introduce Vixen? By being opposed to Hawkgirl. Other than her being a model and liking John, what do we even KNOW about Vixen? All we're given is that she's after John and dislikes Hawkgirl because of the hold she has on him. And fans just disliked her based on that. Yes, she has no character development, but that was up to what the writers did with her. Her first episode put her in this rivalry without any pretext of saying "So, how do we flesh out who Vixen is?". It's simply unfair.

[Pretentious]

The fact Diana's episodes tend to almost always suck doesn't really help her case. And as good as Susan Eisenberg is, it doesn't change the fact Diana has about as much personality as a brick wall.

[Arsenal]

Wonder Woman receives more attention and a better reception than J'onn. Martian Manhunter is the Ringo of the JL. He has had very few spotlight episodes (Secret Origins, Knight in Shadows, Tabula Rasa) even though they tend to be of high quality. He was reduced to exposition in season one of JLU, though that was rectified in a big way in season two.

WW and Flash (wait for the end of the season on this one) have received due attention in comparison.

Personal opinion, of course.

[Prism]

I'd have to say Wonder Woman receives the worst treatment from fans right about now. The problem is as one of the Big 3 she should've got her own television series and they should've been truer to her backstories. And I also think Hawkgirl is heavily overrated by fanboys but then again, that's just my contrary nature.

[Azrael24]

i also say wonder woman right now. but shayera/hawkgirl has received the worst cold reception overall. im not gonna start about her being a traitor and her not really being a traitor.

[Natey]

i think its wonderwoman.... shes just underatted right now and not enough thanks for her entertainment to us. hopefully tha will change soon.

~Nate~

[WonderRaver]

I think that part of the problem for Diana is that she is called one of "the Big Three". For non-WW fans, that statement smacks of prejudice. Why isn't their favorite character (barring Supes and Bats fans of course) a big third? I am being rather presumptuous here, but I am going to say it anyway... non-WW fans are jealous.

But honestly, there is nothing to be jealous about. The only real reason Diana is an icon is because of her longevity in comics... comics that never sold well. Her backstory has been spun every which way, so much so that even Lynda Carter would be dizzy. And sure, Wonder Woman is one of the few DC characters to be treated to other media venues, but most current comic book readers and JLU cartoon watchers have no idea about the three-season (and halfway successful) series that took place.

While I am being flame-bait, let me break apart the fans of other characters:

Superman - The biggest setback for Diana was the fact that the writers wanted to show how much of a bad-ass WW was. By fighting Supes and actually standing at the end, Diana immediately lost a huge portion of Superman fans. As any Superman fan will tell you, Diana has no chance in a fight against the Man of Steel. (Of course, that is not what I believe, but I digress)

Batman - Well, Batfans either hate Diana, begrudging like her somewhat or think she's the best thing since... um, Wonder Bread. Methinks a lot of it has to do with the whole romance thing.

Hawkgirl - This is the biggest stretch on my part. I will get so flamed for this, but Hawkgirl fans don't like Diana because she's the recognizable girl. Nevermind events surrounding "Starcrossed," the Diana bias from Hawkgirl fans long existed before the storyboards for that ep were drawn. The writers claimed they wanted WW and Shayera to be completely different, but what they ended up with (in the beginning) were carbon copies. Tough, beat-em-up Xena clones. But, Diana had something that Shayera didn't at first... recognizability. Even if you don't know about the seventies TV show, you've probably come across some merchandise bearing the Amazon somewhere. PEZ dispensers, T-Shirts, mugs, etc. etc. Hawkgirl was (at first) a second stringer who didn't always make it onto Justice League merchandise (but then again, neither did WW... she just had some of her own solo stuff out there). Hawkgirl wasn't even slated to have a publicly available action figure at first. Of course, now anybody with a brain can see that Shayera is way cooler (and prettier) than Diana.

Flash - I don't know of too many Flash fans that lashed out, but if they did, it was probably related to the number of WW-centric episodes vs. (the lack of) Flash-centric episodes. What makes her special enough to get so many episodes focused on her?

MM - Again, I don't know of any vocal-Wonder haters from this fan base.

GL - I have no idea why John fans would hate Diana, but there are some out there.

I know people are rolling their eyes at me, thinking "whatever, dude... she's just boring." But unto that I would ask, why would you hate someone just because they are boring. Look deep into your subconscious and find the true reason for your hate!

I love the character of Wonder Woman. A powerful woman who preaches the virtues of love and in believing in one's self. Unfortunately, that is not the Diana that has been shown on this show (or always in the comics). Still, the embodiment of Wonder Woman is enough for me to enjoy Diana in whatever fashion she is presented.

-Matt

[Platinum V]

Dag...I guess i was right. And that's a shame because Diana is a part of the big three and she deserves that title because she is the only true iconic heroine out there. Who knows...maybe she'll be better received in her upcoming film. Personally...i feel that she should have been portrayed in the cartoon like how George Perez portrayed her back in her own comic.
Y'know...nice and sweet as she wants to be as a woman and then powerful and fierce as a warrior.

What can the powers that be do about this? :sad:

[Sue]

Wonderwoman doesn't have it as bad as Hawk & Dove. Judging from the JL/U boards I've read, hardly anyone likes them except a handful of people.

[jadzia2000]

I love WW.

I have been a wonder woman fan since the Lynda Carter Series back in the 70s. Yes, I'm that old. But one of the things I've noticed is for a character who is portrayed as one of the "big 3", she sure is pushed to the side where Bats and supes are concerned.

However, I don't think that she is portrayed that poorly. I just don't think She's portrayed enough. Especially in JL's Season 2, she missed a handful of episodes, and In JLU season 1, apart from for the man who has everything, she was portrayed poorly, and almost disrespectively. Remember this little piggy? That's not a storyline I would tell about someone like WW.

But one of her huge shining moments, and I think the fans have forgotten about this, is "Starcrossed". She made Supes look like the weakling in that eppy, and her determination and loyalty to league was very apparent there.

I actually like the kick-ass WW. That's what she is. Hell, if you really want to hate a version of WW, watch "Superfriends". The only element of her strength was that stupid lasso. Hanna-barbara butchered this version of her, which I believe tarnished her reputation in the DC Universe.

Just my 2 cents.

[Platinum V]

All of your comments are dead on but Jadzia2000 wins the prize!

I hate the Superfriends version of WW. She was basically the Cathy Lee Crosby WW in the traditional suit.

I love the fact that WW is so kick ass in this version but the powers that be do need to show her human side a bit more. She's often portrayed too much like a monster/mother in law when in my opinion she should be portrayed like a mother or at least a big sister.

Arsenal...
ARSENAL! Please, you've peaked my interest.
What's up with WW and Flash by the end of the season?

I think that's what you were hinting at.;)

[Archangel2385]

The answer is simple: Hawk and Dove. Wonderwoman may be loathed, but not to the extent that these two, particularly Dove are. But anyways, on to what everyone has said . . . . .

Personally, I believe that it's Diana and I can't understand why. No matter what the creators seem to do to her, many JL fans diss it. Anything Batman does is cool. Shayera's the teams biggest bitc- and fans find her cool. WW gets her invisible jet and fans deem it unnecessary. She has some great moments and they are ignored. When she has a spotlight episode it's deemed the season's weakest.
1. When in the JLU was Shayera ever a bitc-? Can you give any examples of this? What’s more, exactly how is she the team’s biggest bitc-?

2. I think Wonderwoman’s great adversaries are the surrounding episodes and arcs in the JL/JLU series. Simply put, they are a lot of episodes better than her in the eyes of many fans. That doesn’t mean that her featured episodes are bad (in fact, I find many of them decent to above-average), but when put against the likes of “For the Man That has Everything,” “Fearful Symmetry,” or “The Cat and the Canary,” her episodes appear kinda “meh.” Her episodes aren’t bad, just not as great as many others.

I'd say Diana gets a cold reception because for the most part her spotlight episodes suck.
See my second point to the above poster’s remark. At least as far as JLU is concerned (can’t recall much of JL at the moment), I don't think her episodes were bad, just not on-par with several stellar episodes that have been released.

I like all of the original 7, and the only reason i don't like most of the JLUers is because they've gotten no character development, not even named onscreen. they're just...there.
Surely you jest. So then you don’t think Green Arrow, Black Canary, Wildcat, Question, Huntress, Vixen, or Vigilante have gotten any development thus far? Wow . . . just wow.

I can say Hawkgirl because everyone and their mother beleives that she's a traitor even though what she did wasn't as bad as what WW was prepared to do.

WW is a horrible character, who usually headlines the weakest episodes, believes that she should be allowed to get away with things and then slam others relentlessly when they do something that while similar isn't of the same magnatude as what she was willing to do.
1. I am so sick and tired of that “Hawkgirl is a traitor” sentiment as well. He gives up any chance of ever going home, sacrifices her family, friends, people, AND planet to save Earth, a planet that she is not even her home or a citizen of, yet she is STILL a traitor and STILL untrustworthy. WTH?!

2. Like I said earlier, IMHO, it’s all relative. Her episodes appear bad when compared to other far better episodes in the same seasons.

Diana. And it's largely undeserved. The actress was rather wooden in S1, but has grown quite nicely into the role.

Hawk and Dove also come to mind.

KK
In complete agreement, especially after “The Balance.”

Let's be honest, the only people in the JL that ever had two sets of emotions were the Flash and Green Lantern..
You’re kidding . . . right? Well, even if not, at least you said JL and not JLU, because then now your opinion actually has more merit; in JLU, virtually ALL of the original seven have a lot of different emotions, given all that has occurred among League members and Cadmus.

Because I feel Vixen has had an unfair hand dealt to her. Hawkgirl is the Raven of JLU: Removed, aloof, yet considered to be bad @ss because of her wit and willingness to hurt something. She is an established character (in JLU) that fanboys and girls alike flocked to. And how do we introduce Vixen? By being opposed to Hawkgirl. Other than her being a model and liking John, what do we even KNOW about Vixen? All we're given is that she's after John and dislikes Hawkgirl because of the hold she has on him. And fans just disliked her based on that. Yes, she has no character development, but that was up to what the writers did with her. Her first episode put her in this rivalry without any pretext of saying "So, how do we flesh out who Vixen is?". It's simply unfair.
You clearly have not seen “Hunter’s Moon.” Watch that (or if you already have, RE-watch that) and then see if you still feel the same way. And last time I checked, a lot of people in the talkbacks liked the development given to Vixen, especially after “Hunter’s Moon,” so that comment about fans’ opinions may not be very accurate.

I think that part of the problem for Diana is that she is called one of "the Big Three". For non-WW fans, that statement smacks of prejudice. Why isn't their favorite character (barring Supes and Bats fans of course) a big third? I am being rather presumptuous here, but I am going to say it anyway... non-WW fans are jealous.

But honestly, there is nothing to be jealous about. The only real reason Diana is an icon is because of her longevity in comics... comics that never sold well. Her backstory has been spun every which way, so much so that even Lynda Carter would be dizzy. And sure, Wonder Woman is one of the few DC characters to be treated to other media venues, but most current comic book readers and JLU cartoon watchers have no idea about the three-season (and halfway successful) series that took place.

While I am being flame-bait, let me break apart the fans of other characters:

Superman - The biggest setback for Diana was the fact that the writers wanted to show how much of a bad-ass WW was. By fighting Supes and actually standing at the end, Diana immediately lost a huge portion of Superman fans. As any Superman fan will tell you, Diana has no chance in a fight against the Man of Steel. (Of course, that is not what I believe, but I digress)

Batman - Well, Batfans either hate Diana, begrudging like her somewhat or think she's the best thing since... um, Wonder Bread. Methinks a lot of it has to do with the whole romance thing.

Hawkgirl - This is the biggest stretch on my part. I will get so flamed for this, but Hawkgirl fans don't like Diana because she's the recognizable girl. Nevermind events surrounding "Starcrossed," the Diana bias from Hawkgirl fans long existed before the storyboards for that ep were drawn. The writers claimed they wanted WW and Shayera to be completely different, but what they ended up with (in the beginning) were carbon copies. Tough, beat-em-up Xena clones. But, Diana had something that Shayera didn't at first... recognizability. Even if you don't know about the seventies TV show, you've probably come across some merchandise bearing the Amazon somewhere. PEZ dispensers, T-Shirts, mugs, etc. etc. Hawkgirl was (at first) a second stringer who didn't always make it onto Justice League merchandise (but then again, neither did WW... she just had some of her own solo stuff out there). Hawkgirl wasn't even slated to have a publicly available action figure at first. Of course, now anybody with a brain can see that Shayera is way cooler (and prettier) than Diana.

Flash - I don't know of too many Flash fans that lashed out, but if they did, it was probably related to the number of WW-centric episodes vs. (the lack of) Flash-centric episodes. What makes her special enough to get so many episodes focused on her?

MM - Again, I don't know of any vocal-Wonder haters from this fan base.

GL - I have no idea why John fans would hate Diana, but there are some out there.

I know people are rolling their eyes at me, thinking "whatever, dude... she's just boring." But unto that I would ask, why would you hate someone just because they are boring. Look deep into your subconscious and find the true reason for your hate!

I love the character of Wonder Woman. A powerful woman who preaches the virtues of love and in believing in one's self. Unfortunately, that is not the Diana that has been shown on this show (or always in the comics). Still, the embodiment of Wonder Woman is enough for me to enjoy Diana in whatever fashion she is presented.

-Matt
1. I think the fans were more pissed with the writers for giving Wonderwoman such strength than Wonderwoman herself, just as they are pissed at the writers because Superman isn’t as strong as he should be.

2. You’re right on the money when it comes to Batman with the romance thing. Some are actually very vocal about it too, such as Phantasm, who seems to swear up and down that BM/WW is one of the worst pairings of all-time.

3. I won’t flame you for your comments about Shayera and Diana, I’ll just tell you why I, as a Shayera fan, did not like Diana before “The Balance.” Number one reason I did not like her was because I did not understand her (on many on this board) logic towards hating and not trusting Shayera. Never mind that Shayera sacrificed more of her own life and people than Wonderwoman probably ever would even dream of to save Earth, Diana still had major beef with Shayera. To that, I was like, WTH, and so didn’t have much of a favorable view of Diana until “The Balance,” in which she was at her best (outside of maybe “Starcrossed”) IMHO, especially in the area of maturity.

4. Pretty much can agree with what you said regarding Flash, GL, or MM fans.

But one of her huge shining moments, and I think the fans have forgotten about this, is "Starcrossed". She made Supes look like the weakling in that eppy, and her determination and loyalty to league was very apparent there.
I beg your pardon? Made Superman look like a weakling? Were we watching the same “Starcrossed”? What gave you that impression, just curious?

[Krypton_Knight]

Well. Susan first won me over to the role in "Maid of Honor", which probably remains the best of the Wonder Woman-centered stories. It had the teasing Bat-romance (and I *liked* the flirty Bats/WW pairing of MoH and Starcrossed and the Diana/Bruce friendship shown in "Hereafter"), a feminist theme that showcases one of the character's raison d'etre, and the best villain performance of any WW-centered episode in the form of Vandal Savage (in Bond villain mode).

As for her other appearances; Susan seemed too green in both "Paradise Lost" and "The Savage Time" (though I'd love to see them go back and address the Diana/Steve relationship - Steve should be Lois to Diana's Clark: friend, lover, and confidante), "Fury" saddled her with a plot ripped out of a bad Superfriends script ("it doesn't matter if you're an alien - if you're a man, you're infected" Suuuure). In JL S2 Susan seemed far more comfortable in the role and WW's fortunes improved a lot. Her scenes with Aquaman and Hawkgirl were the highlight of the first episode of "Terror Beyond"' and she was defined for the first time as a true fighting fury in "Starcrossed"; the escape scene and the climactic assault are her two best action sequences ever.

Unfortunately, after "Starcrossed" the hyperagressive side took over, particularly when Hawkgirl was absent and the writers seemed to need someone to fit the "fight chick" niche. She's great in "For the Man...", but that's really a Superman story, though her will to endure in a near hopelesss cause against Mongul has to earn her some brownie points. In "Kid's Stuff", she's portrayed as Lucy Van Pelt in tights; in "Hawk and Dove", she's having such an attack of *****iness that it's hard not to wonder if it's "that time of the month". She does absolutely sparkle in her scene with Hephaestus when she gets to play Ed Asner's straight man; unfortunately, the final confrontation with Ares is so predictable as to be painful. Did anyone not see her final line coming from a mile away?

(Hopefully one day we'll get to see Diana have a scene with Asner as Granny Goodness. Given the right script, it would verily rock.)

"This Little Piggy", though WW-centric had very little Diana in it, and worse, the Diana-Bruce relationship which had been light and fun in the first two seasons of JL had suddenly turned into Heavy Bruce Drama. It's amazing how quickly the fans who had seemed to support the pairing from "The Brave and the Bold" turned against it, and the relationship was quietly abandoned after the episode. WW did have a nice supporting role in the first part of the S1 JLU finale, and Diana's line about "the biggest, slowest bullets she's ever seen is particularly memorable.

Beyond that, "The Balance" was her only S2 JLU standout episode. I think she does okay here; she had every reason to be mad at Shayera in "Starcrossed", so the rivalry is not misplaced. Unfortunately, the script's tempo is so quick that the sense of the momentous is largely lost, and what could have been an epic moment is sacrificed to the pacing gods. I did like how Hades was incorporated into her origin without sacrificing the post-Crisis "sculpted from clay" origin - giving Hades a hand in her creation does explain her quick temper and bouts of violence and is very good grist for the future storytelling mill.

Aside from "The Balance", Diana has a minor role in the Cadmus four-parter, and her spotlight moment with the Javelin in "Divided We Fall", which actually prevents Luthiac from digitizing the planet is largely lost due to the furious pace of the climatic episode.

I do hope the creators try to give Diana a really good spotlight episode in JLU S3. I don't have the same type of love for the character as others - for me the definitive version is probably the first season of the Lynda Carter series, and not the Perez revamp - but she is a great character, one that's well worth doing justice to.

KK

[RAINMAN]

AS of late I think it`s jonzz. Eversense TTB all thinks he ben acting like a jerk. Then came Task Force X, DD and HM where it got even worst for the green man. IN hes defense he just making what hes believe is the right choices. Of course there time when other league memebers won`t argee whit his choices but it gonna be like that sometime.:shrug:

[WonderRaver]

To all the Hawkgirl fans who hate Diana because of the "traitor" issue. I do not understand where the true hostility surrounding this issue is coming from. Let me just say that I am of the opinion that people need to get over the issue. Shayera and Diana have.

Honestly, I see both sides of the coin. Shayera was torn between loyalties and in the end she chose the adopted home that would probably hate her over the planet from whence she hailed. Diana felt betrayed by another woman, a sister, who helped capture her friends by horrendous means.

And Silverbolt, I am not sure what you are talking about when you say "what WW was prepared to do." Please elaborate.

-Matt

[Trevor Balena]

And Silverbolt, I am not sure what you are talking about when you say "what WW was prepared to do." Please elaborate.

-Matt
Usually when these Diana/Shayera debates start up, Shayera fans quickly bring up "Paradise Lost", where Diana was going to give Faust what he wanted (and, as a result, open the gates of Tartarus and unleash hell on earth) rather than leave her sisters and mother in their petrified state.

That's probably what Silverbolt was referring to.

[WonderRaver]

Hmm.. and I'm sure that the differences between the two actions (Starcrossed and Paradise Lost) have been blatantly stated numerous times.

Perhaps, it would serve both sets of fans to look at the similarities instead.

-Matt

[Silverbolt]

To be fair I hated WW long long before Starcrossed/JLU. Where as Hawkgirl is exactly like my girlfriend (I swear BT must be her next door neighbor) and is in my opinion the perfect female character because of this..yes I know I'm a sick sick person. WW is everything that I can't stand in a woman. Her way is usually the only way, she's never wrong, believes that she's better then others, and that she has rights that others of equal importance don't have. To me she was best when she was a Pig and should have been made into bacon.


As for the similarities between Starcrossed and Paradise Lost

In both instances the characters home was threatened and in order to save their home the character had to either doom or destroy the earth.

Both the character chose to act alone.

For WW, I believe she acted alone because she knew the league wouldn't stand for dooming the planet to hell.

For Hawkgirl, she acted alone due to the fact that siding with the league would have put her in shackles right with them. By the time she realized that something was really wrong it was to late to do anything but what she did if she wanted to learn the truth.

When it came time to make a decision the similarities end

Hawkgirl pretty much became one of the most hated people in history on her world. She did this because she thought the planet had value, but more importantly because she felt that it was wrong for her people to kill billions just to save themselves. She gave up everything that she had known to save a planet that in the end would probably hate her just as much as her homeworld.

WW didn't really care what happened as long as her sisters were saved. She trusted someone that didn't warrent anything close to trust...the typical yes I'll set them free if you do this/ha ha I lied villian (Hawkgirl trusted someone she was promised to and knew well)

Both lost their homes, though WW was because she just broke a rule of the island...she would just be told to leave the island if she showed up, Hawkgirl would be drawn and quartered if she showed up on Thanagar due to the fact that her actions lead to her people being inslaved, and probably millions killed.

WW at least has a home still, and after The Balance she can go back to it, so really her actions had no reprecuissions at all. (again the spoiled get everything you want characteristic I hate about WW)

Hawkgirl's home is gone, even if she could go back to it the plaent she knew no longer exist. And even if she were to lead a JL strike team and somehow free her people I believe that she'd be looked at as a villian by them still because it was her actions in the first place that necessitated the need to free them.

Basically when it comes down to it Hawkgirl proved just how loyal she was by betraying/killing everything that she had known prior including herself and WW did whatever she could Earth be damned to save her people.

One would think that she could have talked with Superman and got Dr. Fate involved.

[JLU Dude]

I'm nor sure who got the colder reception overall. I like them all, though. Anyway...


To be fair I hated WW long long before Starcrossed/JLU. Where as Hawkgirl is exactly like my girlfriend (I swear BT must be her next door neighbor) and is in my opinion the perfect female character because of this..yes I know I'm a sick sick person. WW is everything that I can't stand in a woman. Her way is usually the only way, she's never wrong, believes that she's better then others, and that she has rights that others of equal importance don't have. To me she was best when she was a Pig and should have been made into bacon.


As for the similarities between Starcrossed and Paradise Lost

In both instances the characters home was threatened and in order to save their home the character had to either doom or destroy the earth.

Both the character chose to act alone.

For WW, I believe she acted alone because she knew the league wouldn't stand for dooming the planet to hell.

For Hawkgirl, she acted alone due to the fact that siding with the league would have put her in shackles right with them. By the time she realized that something was really wrong it was to late to do anything but what she did if she wanted to learn the truth.

When it came time to make a decision the similarities end

Hawkgirl pretty much became one of the most hated people in history on her world. She did this because she thought the planet had value, but more importantly because she felt that it was wrong for her people to kill billions just to save themselves. She gave up everything that she had known to save a planet that in the end would probably hate her just as much as her homeworld.

WW didn't really care what happened as long as her sisters were saved. She trusted someone that didn't warrent anything close to trust...the typical yes I'll set them free if you do this/ha ha I lied villian (Hawkgirl trusted someone she was promised to and knew well)

Both lost their homes, though WW was because she just broke a rule of the island...she would just be told to leave the island if she showed up, Hawkgirl would be drawn and quartered if she showed up on Thanagar due to the fact that her actions lead to her people being inslaved, and probably millions killed.

WW at least has a home still, and after The Balance she can go back to it, so really her actions had no reprecuissions at all. (again the spoiled get everything you want characteristic I hate about WW)

Hawkgirl's home is gone, even if she could go back to it the plaent she knew no longer exist. And even if she were to lead a JL strike team and somehow free her people I believe that she'd be looked at as a villian by them still because it was her actions in the first place that necessitated the need to free them.

Basically when it comes down to it Hawkgirl proved just how loyal she was by betraying/killing everything that she had known prior including herself and WW did whatever she could Earth be damned to save her people.

One would think that she could have talked with Superman and got Dr. Fate involved.
Another thing: Shayera didn't know what exactly Hro was planning until he told her and coulsn't stand to destroy a planet she'd gotten to know. Diana knew full well what she was doing and what it'd bring about and someone should really bring this up to Diana saying "You knew what you were doing could destroy the world. Shayera didn't knew until she was told and actually tried tostop it."

[Adeptus32]

Martian Manhunter is the Ringo of the JL.I agree. MM is the weakest of the original seven. I know he is the last of his race and such, but must he always be so relentlessly whiny and grim? He makes Batman seem cheerful.

As for WW, I think she is getting a bad rap here. I like her character and the way it's being played out. I know it's not universally popular, but I especially enjoy the whole "will they, won't they" thing going on between WW and BM. Some great moments and dialogue there.

[BigFatHairyDeal]

Hey guys,

As for Hawk and Dove, while they sure get a lot of flack, they're almost blips on the radar compared to anyone in the core 7, even Flash, despite the fact the brothers made more appearances in the first season of Unlimited than Wally did. The gripes about Diana, fair or unfair, span 4 seasons.

I guess J'onn is in a bit of a slump, too. He hasn't really had a spotlight episode in quite some time, and he's been awfully ornery and not too instrumental to any particular episode. However, I don't know if people have been complaining about J'onn, but rather, fans of J'onn have complained that he just hasn't been impactful.

[Alpha Man]

I personally think it's a tie between Superman and Wonder Woman. That's of the founding seven, anyway. If part of the whole, Hawk and Dove.

[Batman Fan]

I must be in the minority because I enjoyed most of WW spotlight episodes including Fury, Maid of Honor, and Paradise Lost, they aren't the best, but certainly not the worst. I guess people don't like her is because her character kinda of flip-flops, but now people seem to thing Superman and Jonn are major jerks.

[Conekiller]

This thread reminds me of that time some dude bit my head off for calling WW "trampish" in the talkback for the Ultimen episode. damn....

but I'd have to answer that from Me it's been Hawkgirl, I didn't give 2 whits about her the entirety of JL till her relationship with GL started (and even moreso in Starcrossed) but I gotta chime in with Vigilante in JLU, he jsut sticks out like a sore thumb, him and that silly Kinght looking guy (Shining Knight, right?) at least Hawk and Dove ...felt like SUPERheroes , whether they were annoying or not was a different issue.

[WonderRaver]

WW is everything that I can't stand in a woman. Her way is usually the only way, she's never wrong, believes that she's better then others, and that she has rights that others of equal importance don't have. Ok... I love Wonder Woman the whole character (comics, TV show, cartoons past and present), and the JL/JLU Diana is one of my least favorite portrayals. With that said, I do not believe that she (JL WW) has acted in the ways you have said in all of her appearances. Sure, Diana is portrayed as stand-offish and witchy at times, but then again, so is Shayera.

The animated Diana has her softer side, but I guess if you hate her so passionately, you won't bother to look for her good traits. But I invite you to try. It is a good exercise for real life: look for qualities that you like in the character or person, and focus on those instead of the ones you dislike. In time, you might grow to enjoy them. A much healthier point of view, I assure you. BTW, a good trait would not include Wonder Bacon.;)


The only other thing I want to say is...


For WW, I believe she acted alone because she knew the league wouldn't stand for dooming the planet to hell.I don't care how much you hate Wonder Woman. She ain't stupid. Diana knew that by Foust releasing Hades, Themyscira would have been the first place destroyed. It is the border of hell for gosh sakes! Diana's big mistake in "Paradise Lost" is that she thought she could handle Foust alone.

Just try to look for positive things in Diana... it's how I came around to liking John Stewart. :D

-Matt

[Platinum V]

WonderRaver, you are so friggin' cool!

I love the way you put things!;)

[SirLemming]

It has to be Wonder Woman. I just can't get into her character and her stories. She and all her Greek mythology stuff just don't seem to work well with the rest of the DC Animated Universe. I feel like whenever an episode centers around her problems, everyone gets sort of dragged down by it because they have to get involved in a conflict that doesn't ring true to them.

Hawk & Dove have only had one episode, so I don't think they take this "prize". What I personally think is that they were surprisingly well-characterized for such corny characters in such a corny episode.

[Tash]

Bwanna Beast.

He appeared in one episode, and he became an example whenever people bring up "bad characters".

[LadyM]

Well, judging from this thread, it would have to be Wonder Woman. My opinion? I found her boring in the comics and I find her boring here. Why she's considered part of the "Big Three" is beyond me; she seldom does anything that effects the DCU more than the average hero.

~LM~

[warmachine04]

I also have to agree with everyone that Wonder Woman is the least favorite JL member among fans. Besides "Maid of Honor" her spotlight episodes are weakest.:evil:

[RAINMAN]

Hmm.. and I'm sure that the differences between the two actions (Starcrossed and Paradise Lost) have been blatantly stated numerous times.

Perhaps, it would serve both sets of fans to look at the similarities instead.

-Matt


I htink the real reason why WW fans don`t like sherya and vice versa is cause the 2 characters themslves don`t like each other. I know is sound crazy but thats how some fans really are.:sweat:

[WonderRaver]

I htink the real reason why WW fans don`t like sherya and vice versa is cause the 2 characters themslves don`t like each other. I know is sound crazy but thats how some fans really are.:sweat:I am not sure if it is safe to say that WW fans don't like Shayera and vice versa, because for the most part, I don't think it's true. Sure, you have a few vocal fans, but for the most part WW fans and Shayera fans probably have respect for each character.

Personally, I love Shayera. Sure, there was a little jealousy at first, because Shayera got better lines, better action, etc, etc. But I got over it.

-Matt

[Fone Bone]

Bwanna Beast.

He appeared in one episode, and he became an example whenever people bring up "bad characters".Are you kidding me? Bwanna Beast has a bigger following on this board than Diana and J'onn put together. The reason the B'Wanna worship has died down is because he hasn't appeared since This Little Piggy. I would REALLY like to see him again and no joke, think he is a very funny character with strange powers.

Coldest reception? I'm going with J'onn. No contest. Sure Diana is hated by a lot of folks but at least that's a reaction. J'onn is a BIG drip and nobody brings him up in the hated character threads because he's so boring. I think a bunch of people hating a character is far less damning than a bunch of people forgetting that a character even exists.

[DisneyBoy]

Diana isn't the most loved Leaguer to be honest, and while I do think she's had some great moments on the show, she still has a way to go before the majority of viewers start cheering when they see her on screen.

Me? I was a big Wonder Woman fan prior to the series, and since it began, I've been patiently waiting for all the liberties taken with the character on this show to pay off. Few have.

Despite having practically denounced her here on the boards a few months ago, I can't pretend as though there aren't many things I enjoy about this version of Wonder Woman. She's got her lasso now, which is a big deal to me since it's such a huge part of her mythology. When she's being animated by Dong Yang's "A" team, she looks sensational, and her voice actress has definately made the part her own. She's befriended Steve Trevor and Queen Audrey, one classic character and one new one, and both those stories were very enjoyable. She's managed to get under the skin of JL's rather grim, gruff and curt Batman, which has been fun to watch. She and J'onn have bonded over time, both being newcomers. The biggest names in her rogues gallery have all been treated pretty fairly with regards to who they are in the comics, Ares being the exception which I hope is later corrected. Plus, there's the mysterious history of her armor, which her mother seems connected to.

Please note that those are all things which I've enjoyed seeing. If it's not listed up there, chances are, I don't love it. Wonder Woman has been a work in progress, and it's because she's such a huge name that we take her so seriously. J'onn isn't half as beloved, which is why it's easier for fans to overlook any inconsistancies or lack of development or direction in his case. But Diana? We want to love her.

It's clearly been an uphill battle for the creative team. One which I hope they win.

[creativerealms]

When is came to Hawk Girl and John these two characters were hated from the moment they were announced to be on the show. Many fans hated the fact that these characters were only put in the team to have a black guy and another female. Most would have rather had Kyle and Hawkman instead of these two.



Season two of JL took these two hated characters and made them probably the strongest development wise in the series. By implementing that romance sub plot the creative team really tuned these two characters around and they became more accepted by the general viewing public.



Wonder Woman has had the weakest episodes and too much show time on JLU season one. Flash was none existent in JLU s1 and MM stayed aboard the station but it felt like Wonder woman was thrown after us week after week.



Anyway there is member of the big seven that I hate, though I'm not too fond of Hawk and Dove.

[Quintessence]

Ya know, I realize that Hawk and Dove's episode was rife with the Bludgeon Sledgehammer of Moral Awareness, but I didn't hate them. In fact, I liked them. They were funny. There was some good fighting, and I actually like Dove the most out of the whole episode. There was really nothing wrong with them.

[Platinum V]

Wonder Woman's only weak episode was Hawk and Dove...all of her other eps rocked.
Actually, Hawk and Dove wasn't considered a spotlight ep for Diana it was a spotlight for Hawk and Dove, people.
This little piggy wasn't a Diana spotlight episode either. It spotlighted Zatanna.

[Casey Mack]

i dun get whats wrong with Dianas Portrayal in the show. She not as important or as iconic as supes or Bats, i mean her Rogues gallery is terrible. I just dun see what people [disney boy especially] want? Diana is just not up on Bats or supes level hence the writers have different ways to interpret her.
________
RHODE ISLAND MARIJUANA DISPENSARY (http://rhodeisland.dispensaries.org/)

[Platinum V]

i dun get whats wrong with Dianas Portrayal in the show. She not as important or as iconic as supes or Bats, i mean her Rogues gallery is terrible. I just dun see what people [disney boy especially] want? Diana is just not up on Bats or supes level hence the writers have different ways to interpret her.
Casey Mack are you out of your friggin mind?;) WW is every bit as iconic as Batman and Superman. She is just as recognizeable as they are in any forum. Her only problem is that she's a very popular and very powerful character in a medium dominated by men.

I believe that most male fans that watch JL has had a problem with her the moment she kicked Superman's butt in Paradise Lost.

And to those that want to debate that she's clearly not his equal because she got her butt kicked by Mongul in FTMWHE, that was a tale told pre crisis in the comics where WW wasn't portrayed to be as powerful as Superman. They kept the JLU ep true to the original story in the comics.

Just as Superman was powered down a bit in JL season 1, Wonder Woman was powered down a bit in that ep.

[Platinum V]

Casey Mack, if you were talking about other people in your thread as opposed to yourself then disregard my post. Okay?:D

[WonderRaver]

After viewing this past week's episode and then reading the posts about the episode, I can now add another notch to the WW-complacency stick. I quote...


Um, she barely even did anything in this episode.Diana and J'onn both had pivotal moments. Yet, barely anyone talked about them. Sure a few fans of the characters talked it up a little, but all in all not much of anything. Don't get me wrong, Flash owned the ep. Nonetheless, J'onn and Diana kicked ass in their own scenes. I just want everyone to notice how they are being overlooked.

Something else interesting to note: When the Justice Lords appeared, guess who was left out of the "inner dialog"... yep, J'onn and Diana (oh, and Bats, but everyone knows his inner dialog). Did Dwayne do that on purpose? Hmm... I may start a new post regarding this issue.

-Matt

[warmachine04]

Have to agree with the rest. Diana has been getting some mixed opinions. She had her moments especially after "Divided They Fall".:)

[melibell21]

i think diana is hated because she is such a larger character. personally, i think she's pretty cool, but i like shayera too. i think their little disagreeing thing is colorful. when the women superheroes don't like each other, it's amusing. i mean the men are like all about muscle and brawn and the women hate each other cuz, ah who knows. it's funny though. like canary and huntress. that was great.

wutever, i like ww, but bats is my fav. all the way. i love flash too. wish he had more spotlight episodes though. he's hilarious. but bats is till my fav.

[Doomsday]

Are you kidding me? Bwanna Beast has a bigger following on this board than Diana and J'onn put together. The reason the B'Wanna worship has died down is because he hasn't appeared since This Little Piggy. I would REALLY like to see him again and no joke, think he is a very funny character with strange powers.

Coldest reception? I'm going with J'onn. No contest. Sure Diana is hated by a lot of folks but at least that's a reaction. J'onn is a BIG drip and nobody brings him up in the hated character threads because he's so boring. I think a bunch of people hating a character is far less damning than a bunch of people forgetting that a character even exists. I was thinking the same thing earlier today. Diana isn't the best character but atleast she had episodes in JLU focused on her. J'ohn been locked up in the Watchtower with no episodes focused on him and only had 2 episodes he fights in. I wish they give him more focus and I believe it is possible to make him an interesting character.