Doctor Who "The Parting of the Ways" (SPOILERS)

[HellCat]

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/animationroom/dorwh.jpg
"The Parting of the Ways"

The Dalek's launch an invasion of Earth. Will anyone be left standing?


Good, but I think the first part was better. Rose being sent home to save her was a logical step by the Doctor, but the whole sub-plot of her trying to get back dragged. 'Goddess Rose' also felt like a bit of a lame way to wrap things up and I was also disatisified with the resolution of the Bad Wolf plot. I wonder what Jack will do now that he's on his own with no time machine- maybe in some twist, the 'abandoned' Jack will in fact be the one who founded the time organization he used to work for?
The Doctor's regeneration was interesting, though the "Looks like you need a doctor" line was beyond cheesey.

[Mr Cat Dog]

Well... certainly didn't expect that as a finale. I'd have liked the Bad Wolf to have actually been something, but no matter, Rose controlling it was good as well. Apart from that, just WOW all over again. I can't really say much more than wow, so won't.

[Conan-san]

BARCLE*FREAKING*LONA!

That was 45 mintues of the best televsion that I have seen.

[Zero-V]

The Doctor's regeneration was interesting, though the "Looks like you need a doctor" line was beyond cheesey
The hell it was, it was humerous and light hearted compared to the violence we had seen.

On topic

WOAH, a great finale that managed to incoproate every major cast member in small doses and large

Bad Wolf? The TARDIS/Rose hybrid, a result of using the time/space vortex as a weapon, the TARDIS sent a message for itself to do this when it realised The Doctor was going to send it with Rose back to present day Earth, The Doctor then sucked the energy out of her with a kiss, but since absorbing the entire vortex is a no-no, his cells collapse, and he regenerates

The main villain behind the time changes? The Emperor Dalek, Adam did'nt appear once, the Emperor revived it's legions with hybrids of human and Dalek tissue, resulting in a more fanatical, deluded Dalek empire, Rose manages to defeat them using her new powers to break The Dalek fleet down into atoms, The Emperor's ship is destroyed, but he is not seen to die, indicating we hav'nt seen the last of The Daleks.

Still, minor plot holes aside, this was a gripping episode and a worthy finale, the regenerations' execution was suprising, Bad Wolf was'nt a total cop-out, and we got a look at Tenant

"New teeth...that's expected, where was I? Oh yes, Barcelona"

[HellCat]

I sense this week I'm going to be the member others take offense to...

[Matt-a-Tastic]

Brilliant, its all wrapped up farilly well.

But I still think it only deserved a 4 :p

'casue I dunno... it did.

I must say, the new doctor looks absolutlly terrible, he could potenally be even worse than Peterson...

[Zero-V]

I must say, the new doctor looks absolutlly terrible, he could potenally be even worse than Peterson...
Don't you mean Peter Davison?

Tenant was only visible for ten seconds, judge after two minutes in "The Chirstmas Invasion"

[Matt-a-Tastic]

Don't you mean Peter Davison?Oh yeah, I thought for a minite that his surname was peterson and that I couldnt rember his first name. My bad, sorry

Tenant was only visible for ten seconds, judge after two minutes in "The Chirstmas Special"I wasn't judging, I was merly saying that he "looked bad" which means I think he'll be bad in season 2. I said/hinted/meant nothing about judging him :yawn:

[IanC]

Excellent finsh to an excellent series. Cant wait to see the Christmas Invasion.

Loved the Doctors introduction! and YAY Jack lived!!!!

The Bad Wolf thing was excellent, in the end.

Now, to wait for the dvd boxset with extras or pick up the "vanilla" dvds as they come out.... and then get the boxset.

Oh yeah, how many complaints you think the BBC are going to get over the Daleks God references and the whole Dr/Jack kiss?

[HellCat]

Oh yeah, how many complaints you think the BBC are going to get over the Daleks God references and the whole Dr/Jack kiss?
Bah. They hinted at it during "The Empty Child" storyline that Jack came from a different time with different customs (and different relationships). People should be mature enough to let it go as something akin to when ambassador's kiss each other on the cheek or when you shake someone's hand.
Mr Delusional Dalek should be safe as he was painted as a nut job the whole time and proven false at the end when Uber Rose smites him. If the vicar getting eaten in Father's Day didn't cause trouble, I'd say Emperor Dalek is safe.

[Mr Cat Dog]

After "Dalek", the BBC said that there would be a Dalek episode in the David Tennant series, so I'm sure Emperor Dalek is safe.

[Matt-a-Tastic]

Heh, I like jack being a bi-sexul. Its makes "uber flaurt, dont give a $**** about anything" attudide a real cing.

I don't think they'll particually bothered about it though.... partly becasue it wasn't a gay kiss, it was a bi-sexuel Kiss and partly becase it didnt mean anything (it was a "goodbye" kiss, not a "I love you" kiss)

[Mr Cat Dog]

It wasn't a love kiss. In the Doctor Who: Confidential on BBC Three, the actor who plays Jack (can't be bothered to remember his name), he said that he kissed Rose and Doctor not in an "I love you and want your babies" type way, but an "I love you like you are my best friends" way. No bisexuality by the BBC. They wouldn't dare after Jerry Springer Opera.

[Matt-a-Tastic]

It wasn't a love kiss. I know! thats what I just said o_0

I missed Dr who confiedantal... yet again >_<

[HellCat]

I'll take another stab at giving my thoughts on this ep, hopefully one that won't get me roasted.

I wouldn't say I hate this ep, I just feel that alot of things could have been handled better. The Doctor sending Rose back home was one of the best elements- it made sense and Chris perfectly pulled off the scene where the Doctor tries to disguise his plan by making it look like he's going to go with Rose suggested. The scene with the hologram was great, especially how the Doctor knew exactly where Rose would be within the TARDIS whilst listening and responding to the recording. The problem for me is what happened after that. Having Rose trying to get back take up most of the ep was not a good move, especially since all the scenes were basically the same:

*Rose* "I have to get back and help him"
*Jackie and Mickey* "No no, you're much better here"
*Rose* "Shut up!"

I'd have preferred Rose to be trapped with the Daleks for most of the episode instead, as that would have been better then the slow subplot of her being stuck back home. The way they opened the TARDIS was even worse. I think it would have been better if like in 'Boom Town' it had opened by itself. Have it feel Rose's sadness for it's owner and then show what have been the Doctor's 2 constant companions throughout the series (Rose and the TARDIS) disobeying him and going back to save him.
Once they get back we hit what I think is the biggest fault of the ep- resolution which happens way too fast. Rose becomes nigh-omnipotent and is able to just burn the Dalek army to ashes. She also briefly mentions that she'll weave the words 'Bad Wolf' throughout time explaining their presence over their adventures....that's it? The Daleks are built up to be a threat and instead of some creative way to beat them Davies chooses just to give one of the heroes god-like powers which let her do away with them easily? It's cheap. Same with the 'Bad Wolf' idea. In the end, it meant nothing. Why was the company called 'Bad Wolf'? Why did Rose need to leave these words as clues for herself and the Doctor since the pressence of the words made little to no difference? I'm not doing this to rain on anyone's parade, I just believe these are valid criticisms of the episode.

[Zero-V]

The Daleks are built up to be a threat and instead of some creative way to beat them Davies chooses just to give one of the heroes god-like powers which let her do away with them easily? It's cheap. Same with the 'Bad Wolf' idea.Actually, it was ripped straight from Season Four of Buffy. ("Primeval")


In the end, it meant nothing
No it did'nt, it demonstrated the bond the TARDIS has with The Doctor and Rose to lay a message for itself years behind, there relationship has always been based on reliablity and trust, and it saw how much love Rose had for him, trusting her to understand the message.


Why was the company called 'Bad Wolf'?
It was the genesis of the message, and it applied to the situation, Rose was the big bad wolf, Anubis, bringer of life and death

[SimpsonGuy100]

Hello everyone...

Now, the episode was personally worth all the wait. I loved every minute of the episode, even David Tennant! ("Where was I...oh yeah, Barcelona." http://nohomers.net/images/smilies/grin.gif) It was hard to watch it though when it actually came on, I had my youngest sister and my youngest nephew round so I decided to tape it from the last 30 minutes of the Doctor Who documentary so I get all of it and a lot more too, if you know what I mean of course.

Nevertheless, enjoyed it a lot, I'd like to thank the BBC for making such an excellent series, goodbye Eccleston, Hello Tennant, yada-yada-yada. All that jazz.

A+

and for the series: A+.


P.S. Can't wait for Christmas! It's going to be great.

[HellCat]

Actually, it was ripped straight from Season Four of Buffy. ("Primeval")


No it did'nt, it demonstrated the bond the TARDIS has with The Doctor and Rose to lay a message for itself years behind, there relationship has always been based on reliablity and trust, and it saw how much love Rose had for him, trusting her to understand the message.


It was the genesis of the message, and it applied to the situation, Rose was the big bad wolf, Anubis, bringer of life and death
And how does taking ideas from another series make the idea any better?

How was she supposed to understand the message? It didn't fall into place until they actually reached Sattelite 5 at the time of 'Bad Wolf'. Sure, they'd noticed the hints beforehand but didn't really make anything of it tell then. It just comes of as some poor excuse for trying to claim there was some great season long plot thread being woven.

[Zero-V]

And how does taking ideas from another series make the idea any better?Because it was superior to "Preval" with what originality it DID have


How was she supposed to understand the message? It didn't fall into place until they actually reached Sattelite 5 at the time of 'Bad Wolf'. Sure, they'd noticed the hints beforehand but didn't really make anything of it tell then.It's called "coming to conclusions", Rose finally grasped the message when confrionted with it, and in the event of a crisis, put two and two together when given enough time to contemplate it.


It just comes of as some poor excuse for trying to claim there was some great season long plot thread being woven.
It comes off to YOU as a poor excuse, I respect your opinion, but you're trying to make an emotional example of the TARDIS' love for The Doctor seem like a cop-out because you can't deal with such a humanitarian twist.

[HellCat]

Because it was superior to "Preval" with what originality it DID have

It's called "coming to conclusions", Rose finally grasped the message when confrionted with it, and in the event of a crisis, put two and two together when given enough time to contemplate it.

It comes off to YOU as a poor excuse, I respect your oipinion, but you're trying to make an emotional example of the TARDIS' love for The Doctor seem like a cop-out because you can't deal with such a humanitarian twist.
Oh yeah, I'm a cynic. Me, a 19 year old who's only prior experience with the series was a handful of older episodes and the TV movie :shrug:

The reason I'm unsatisified is because the ideas feel half baked, as if Davies didn't flesh them out as well as he should of. Nothing says the TARDIS sent the words back, throughout that entire scene the one using the power is established as Rose. I don't need ideas spelled out for me but if the idea was that it was the TARDIS acting through Rose I believe they would have spelled it out more clearly. From what was presented, Rose absorbed the power to essentially alter reality itself and it was a power she obviously wasn't supposed to have.

[Stewie]

I'm with Hellcat on this. Everything with Rose seemed silly. Just getting the Tardis to open was stupid. Get a bigger truck? Then she has superpowers. Even though this power is what "kills" The Doctor, she lives. I'll forgive that (because it's The Doctor). And rather than have "Bad Wolf" actually mean something that makes sense, have Rose do it! What's the big mystery behind it all?
Dalek: "I didn't do it".
Rose: "Surprise, it was me."
After all the lead-up with Bad Wolf having some big meaning, that was weak. It didn't make sense. I still don't know what "Bad Wolf" means. Why would Rose/Tardis use those exact words. It doesn't matter though, because Rose can kill all the Daleks and bring back to life all the poeple that will be in the next series.
I say, Deus Ux Machina.

Oh, and The Doctor wasn't going to kill the Daleks? I like the struggle there. Does he (nearly) wipe out humanity as he did the Time Lords? But everything I've seen of his character this season made me think he would do it. He hated the Daleks. At the beginning of the episode he was all business. He went straight after the Daleks with no weapons. Then once he actually can kill them all (again) he says he's a coward and can't do it?

I want to see as little as possible of the Daleks from here on out. They just don't seem all that scary to me. Maybe if they spent less time saying "exterminate" (which is cool I grant you) and more time killing, they would seem more dangerous.

One more thing...Rose/Tardis still let Earth get razed. All those continents (on the map) seemed to be burned to a crisp. Couldn't she have fixed that? Just gonna let that fly I guess.
Why not go back to where the Dalek emperor first appeared near Earth and destroy it then? That was when it was at it's weakest. Go back before it had a chance to build armies of Daleks, screw up Earth's history, destroy good chunks of the Earth, and cause the death of the Doctor.

I'm looking forward to the new guy and new adventures and such, but Boo!

[Zero-V]

After all the lead-up with Bad Wolf having some big meaning, that was weak. It didn't make sense. I still don't know what "Bad Wolf" meansTry the Bad Wolf website, I've already explained it to Hellcat, Rose was the balance of life and death, Anubis, the explanation is the first article on the Bad Wolf site, and it's the one that is interpreted on screen, do your homework.


I want to see as little as possible of the Daleks from here on out. They just don't seem all that scary to me. Maybe if they spent less time saying "exterminate" (which is cool I grant you) and more time killing, they would seem more dangerous.
For the love of Christ, thier prescense and thier relentless nature is what defines them as what they are. Nazis, and in this case now, deluded, religious terrorists.

And I doubt the audiences watching care for what you think of them, for a ten year old child, that IS freaking scary

[Lord Dalek]

Why do I get the impression that Tlotoxl wrote this poll? :p

Aztecs joke, do your home work

[Stewie]

Try the Bad Wolf website, I've already explained it to Hellcat, Rose was the balance of life and death, Anubis, the explanation is the first article on the Bad Wolf site, and it's the one that is interpreted on screen, do your homework.I'm talking about Doctor Who the tv show, not a website.
So if Rose was the balance of life and death blah blah blah, why was that revealed and resolved in a span of two minutes? Why was it not set up before? One minute she was Rose. The next minute, after yanking up a panel in the Tardis she was Anubis. I understand the Tardis is special and alive and powerful and all that, but I want more of an explanation that what I got. This special storyline saving power of the Tardis was only referred to in one episode before this.
And Anubis? When (on the show) did they say she was Anubis?


For the love of Christ, thier prescense and thier relentless nature is what defines them as what they are. Nazis, and in this case now, deluded, religious terrorists.

And I doubt the audiences watching care for what you think of them, for a ten year old child, that IS freaking scaryTake it easy. Part of the audience does care because I am part of the audience. You seem to care more about what I think than anyone. Don't get your panties in a tangle just because some of us didn't like it.

[Matt-a-Tastic]

Sorry about this post, I kinda blew my top. I've been a bit stressed recentlly casue of exams, but still I'm sorry.

[Stewie]

Do you think swearing at us and scolding us will help the situation?
Fair enough.

[HellCat]

edited - SJJ Matt- none of us were squabling. We were discussing. Slightly heated yes, but we were still being mature about it. There's no need for you to butt in and show yourself up. This is an episode talkback and discussion thread, not a "Let's all be mindless drones and say we loved it" thread. Those of us with criticisms of the episode have the right to voice them, just as those who feel otherwise have the right to respond to these criticisms. In future, I'd advise you not to try and act like Mr Big when you're far from it.

[MonkeyFunk]

So, Bad Wolf was meant to be Anubis? But Anubis was a bad jackel! Well, that's the commonly-accepted theory, anyways. Read about it here (http://bleedingeyeballs.com/basenjiart/anubisdebate.htm). Stewie's not the only one who didn't do his homework ;)

Come of it, there must have been a better metaphysical name out there. Avenging Angel? Nemesis (http://www.pantheon.org/articles/n/nemesis.html)? Er... Great Forest Spirit?
Ghost Writer?

Well, anyways. I loved this episode overall (yes, even the Rose subplot). Thought it was a pretty fitting conclusion to the whole thing. Not too sure about Doctor Casanova, though. Have to wait and see about that...

[Conan-san]

In any case, I liked it for verious reasions.

The main one has got to be that almost none of anyone's predictions came true. Adam didn't show up as Darvos, The Doctor WASN'T killed by Darleks, it doesn't seem that Jack will continue on as soon as Series 2 starts (Which kinda sucks but another time).

Overall, I absolutely loved how the old mentaility of the Darleks merged with thier deluded rullers ideas of Grandure to create an even deadiler force than before, they are still the ruthless bastards of youre but now they have a resion d'ete behind them, all be it a fake one mind.

And, whilst this seems sadistic, I loved how the Level 0 Group, Lynda (With a Y) and Jack bit it, especaly Lynda and the two game station ops (That whole firing upwards with the male op's last fall was a nice touch).

That said, yes, the earth subplot did drag and, for what it's worth, I did fell there was a bit of Christopher Thondike in Rose's actions. Mind you, Chris didnt' merge with all existance and blow away everything within a 5 mile radus so that sorta picked up.

Regenration, looked mighty painful (And there will be T-shirts Saying "The 9th Doctor does it standing up", I betcha) but I think, bar twiging accent on the use of "Barcelona" which might (or not) be fixed by the time Series 2 comes around that the 10th Doctor looks to be doing it fine.

And for those complaining that the 9th Doctor died too quickly, you have to consider that he was created by the time war (or if you will, the darleks) and it seems fitting that he bow out at thier apprent end and the Ultimate end of said war.

[Zero-V]

Come of it, there must have been a better metaphysical name out there. Avenging Angel? Nemesis (http://www.pantheon.org/articles/n/nemesis.html)?
Already taken by a statue...AND it wiped out another fleet poised to attack Earth at the command of The Doctor in Season Twenty Five

[James]

I'm with Hellcat on this. Everything with Rose seemed silly. Just getting the Tardis to open was stupid. Get a bigger truck?
That's how humans think my friend. I think that was in character. More importantly, it was there to resolve the Rose/Doctor/Mother tense dynamic, as well as show how the Doctor's influence on Rose had taken effect and how that influcence then affects other, in this case, Rose's mother makes a stand for right and not just for what she wants.


Then she has superpowers. Even though this power is what "kills" The Doctor, she lives. I'll forgive that (because it's The Doctor) And rather than have "Bad Wolf" actually mean something that makes sense, have Rose do it! What's the big mystery behind it all?
Did you get it? :p It's misdirection, and quite frankly a great piece of misdirection as it makes sense far more than if it had been some entity or villain following the Doctor.


Dalek: "I didn't do it".
Rose: "Surprise, it was me."
After all the lead-up with Bad Wolf having some big meaning, that was weak. It didn't make sense. I still don't know what "Bad Wolf" means. Why would Rose/Tardis use those exact words. It doesn't matter though, because Rose can kill all the Daleks and bring back to life all the poeple that will be in the next series.
You seem to have got lost here. "Bad Wolf" was the name of the corporation in the future. Rose didn't affect that. She took the name and used that to scatter as a "clue", a "clue" she already knew the answer to as she had already solved it in her older state... that's the paradox. Bad Wolf is the corporate name.

As for the bringing to life, I suspect that's a rewrite, be it because Barrowman wanted/had schedule to return, or because his chemistry on set was so strong. I don't get the impression that was the original ending.. I could be wrong.



Oh, and The Doctor wasn't going to kill the Daleks? I like the struggle there. Does he (nearly) wipe out humanity as he did the Time Lords? But everything I've seen of his character this season made me think he would do it. He hated the Daleks. At the beginning of the episode he was all business. He went straight after the Daleks with no weapons. Then once he actually can kill them all (again) he says he's a coward and can't do it?
But that's the whole point. Even with so much pain, the Doctor is still, the Doctor and as such unable to do what he's never been able to do (aside from arguably his 7th incarnation) and that's cause mass genocide - for whatever reason. Whatever his outward characteristics and personality, the heart remains true... and he is in essense, a big softy. :)



One more thing...Rose/Tardis still let Earth get razed. All those continents (on the map) seemed to be burned to a crisp. Couldn't she have fixed that? Just gonna let that fly I guess.
With Jack returning next season after the first recording block, I would imagine this will be dealt with. If not, well, there have been lots of wars on Earth, who says this wasn't one that happened anyhow?



Why not go back to where the Dalek emperor first appeared near Earth and destroy it then? That was when it was at it's weakest. Go back before it had a chance to build armies of Daleks, screw up Earth's history, destroy good chunks of the Earth, and cause the death of the Doctor.
He doesn't know when it Earth's history the Dalek arrived. Furthermore, you have another time change by doing so and as we've seen, with no Time Custodians, that would be dangerous. Plus that argument could be used for 90% of his adventures.. :p We have to assume his reasons for never doing that are sound and just accept it!



I'm looking forward to the new guy and new adventures and such, but Boo!
I think Tennant will be great. I thought this story was great too. I see little wrong with it... except as Hellcat said, the "You need a Doctor..." line... that was ookie for me. The rest was cool.

With two seasons now confirmed, lots of potential from the new Doctor.. all seems to be good.

Oh, and Mediawatch are apparently set to complain about the Jack kiss. Quelle surprise.

[Matt-a-Tastic]

Was I the only one who enjoyed watching Jack die.... or do I need help?

[James]

Try the Bad Wolf website, I've already explained it to Hellcat, Rose was the balance of life and death, Anubis, the explanation is the first article on the Bad Wolf site, and it's the one that is interpreted on screen, do your homework.
Well the Bad Wolf website is just postulating god like connections to Bad Wolf, it's by no means giving a precise interpretation.

Bad Wolf is simply the name of the human corporation which Rose used as a calling card through time to lead her to the conclusion she'd already knew she would arrive at.. if that makes sense. The actual origin of the Bad Wolf corporation is irrelevant, all you need to know is that it's that corporation that GodRose used as the calling card to complete the paradox.

Finally, there has been some really nasty posts in here. We'll clean up as soon as possible and speak to people privately, but just a reminder to keep a cool head thanks. It's only a show.

[Conan-san]

Was I the only one who enjoyed watching Jack die.... or do I need help?It was a good exit, if nothing else.

Darlek: Extermante!
Jack (Anoyed/Cocky): Yeah, I figgured that.

[Stewie]

That's how humans think my friend. I think that was in character. More importantly, it was there to resolve the Rose/Doctor/Mother tense dynamic, as well as show how the Doctor's influence on Rose had taken effect and how that influcence then affects other, in this case, Rose's mother makes a stand for right and not just for what she wants.I don't dislike so much that they tried it, but that it worked. And I think it was out of character for Rose. The other two, I can see. But Rose seemed to have gotten past that "big thing smash!" aspect of her humanity.
If they had tried it with Mickey's car, failed, and left the idea in the trash bin I would have been fine. Heck, I would have accepted that the Tardis read Rose's mind and opened up after a sort of subconscious "open sesame."


Did you get it? It's misdirection, and quite frankly a great piece of misdirection as it makes sense far more than if it had been some entity or villain following the Doctor.I'll buy that, I guess. I just don't like it when someone tells me about this great twist coming up that's been hinted about all season, only to find out that the twist is "there is no twist!"
I never felt the "Bad Wolf" idea was estabished and explained on the show. It was mentioned a couple of episodes ago, but that was it. It all came from these talkbacks and the Bad Wolf site.


You seem to have got lost here. "Bad Wolf" was the name of the corporation in the future. Rose didn't affect that. She took the name and used that to scatter as a "clue", a "clue" she already knew the answer to as she had already solved it in her older state... that's the paradox. Bad Wolf is the corporate name.I get that. But I still don't see how the "clue" helped at all. What purpose did it serve? For all Rose's talk of seeing "Bad Wolf" at that playground and it telling her she could still save The Doctor, I don't see how it actually helped. It wasn't a code. It didn't mean anything. It was a question with no answer.
If "Bad Wolf" had been left out of every single episode and hadn't been a storypoint in the last two, nothing would have changed. It didn't affect anything.


He doesn't know when it Earth's history the Dalek arrived. Furthermore, you have another time change by doing so and as we've seen, with no Time Custodians, that would be dangerous. Plus that argument could be used for 90% of his adventures.. :p We have to assume his reasons for never doing that are sound and just accept it!I meant, why didn't Rose do that. It's not so much that I have a problem with that part as I do questions.


Oh, and Mediawatch are apparently set to complain about the Jack kiss. Quelle surprise.Babies.

[James]

I don't dislike so much that they tried it, but that it worked. And I think it was out of character for Rose. The other two, I can see. But Rose seemed to have gotten past that "big thing smash!" aspect of her humanity.
If they had tried it with Mickey's car, failed, and left the idea in the trash bin I would have been fine. Heck, I would have accepted that the Tardis read Rose's mind and opened up after a sort of subconscious "open sesame."
Well in the end, it's a very custom job this TARDIS.. and as I said in character, I think it was a nice way to show human "ingenuity" and bring the characters together in understanding rather than the "open sesame" routine. I think if they had done the latter they would have been condemned by viewers for being so cliche! :)



I'll buy that, I guess. I just don't like it when someone tells me about this great twist coming up that's been hinted about all season, only to find out that the twist is "there is no twist!"But isn't that the biggest twist of all? Lead people so much to be expecting one thing they find out it's something UTTERLY different?



I never felt the "Bad Wolf" idea was estabished and explained on the show. It was mentioned a couple of episodes ago, but that was it. It all came from these talkbacks and the Bad Wolf site.True, it was very subtle, but then I suppose in an age of DVD and video, they know it's likely to get repeat performances and it gives something to watch out for. They did also show the actual scenes to which were referred so people can see what they didn't spot before!



I get that. But I still don't see how the "clue" helped at all. What purpose did it serve? For all Rose's talk of seeing "Bad Wolf" at that playground and it telling her she could still save The Doctor, I don't see how it actually helped. It wasn't a code. It didn't mean anything. It was a question with no answer.
If "Bad Wolf" had been left out of every single episode and hadn't been a storypoint in the last two, nothing would have changed. It didn't affect anything.But that's the nature of paradox; it didn't have to mean anything! She used Bad Wolf because she knew it was enough to tip her off through experiencing that tip off. It's like an advert making no sense on TV, but by watching it, it gives you this random great idea... then you find the opportunity to time travel and realise it was you who made the random advert to give you the idea.. the advert doesn't have to relate if it's function has done the job.. so Bad Wolf was just the name of the company which Rose saw in front of her coupled with the knowledge that the name in her past adventures had served the purpose of giving her the spark to try and get back to the future!



I meant, why didn't Rose do that. It's not so much that I have a problem with that part as I do questions.

Again, I suppose it depends on the affect of the Vortex. Killing of creatures in a local vacinity must be far less difficult than finding the root through time and destroying.. maybe that was beyond her ability.. maybe that would have killed her!

[Matt-a-Tastic]

It was a good exit, if nothing else.

Darlek: Extermante!
Jack (Anoyed/Cocky): Yeah, I figgured that.Heh, I loved that bit.

I dunno... it just seemed genrally quite well done... and it was sort of interesting seeing an actual main charcter die rather than seeing random charcter #135 die

[HellCat]

I think I've already said this, but personally I perhaps would have be bothered less if the wrap up of this hadn't come so late in the episode. Yeah, I understand the need to build up tension but then I feel that was lacking too. Davies should be given more episodes to tell a story in as the characters focused on (Lynda, the greedy gameshow winner, and the Gamestation staff) weren't connected with the audience enough in my opinion for them to be worried about or their deaths to carry weight. The only ones I was worried about were the Doctor, Rose and Jack.
One thing I might have improved it a bit more is a focus on something that only got about a minute of focus- Rose not wanting to give up the power because of all the good she could do with it. Have her go slightly crazy yet still innocent, believing she can correct everything that went wrong in their adventures and throughout time, including her father and the time war. That may conflict with the whole parralel being presented (the Dalek Emperor thinks it's a god but wants to do evil, Rose achieves something close to a god and is only interested in good) but it would make it feel less like a cheap last minute resolution and more like what we'd been building up to.

[James]

Davies should be given more episodes to tell a story in as the characters focused on (Lynda, the greedy gameshow winner, and the Gamestation staff) weren't connected with the audience enough in my opinion for them to be worried about or their deaths to carry weight.
Interesting idea, but with a 13 episode format, would another episode to delve into those characters be justifyied enough? Would it simply pad out elements which didn't need to be dealt with. After all the characters you mention were never meant to be integral, just elements to shift the plot and then to be bumped in the final episode. IMO anyhow. :)


One thing I might have improved it a bit more is a focus on something that only got about a minute of focus- Rose not wanting to give up the power because of all the good she could do with it. Have her go slightly crazy yet still innocent, believing she can correct everything that went wrong in their adventures and throughout time, including her father and the time war.
That's a suggestion, and I agree that would have been interesting - to see her battle with ability over conscience. I guess in the end, while I think it may have added a layer to the end, I suppose when you have 45 minutes, you simply just have to make sure all in there is the most relevant material. Afterall, the issue of her accepting her father's death had been dealt with in "Fathers Day" and again earlier this episode.. the Time War again was something this episode had dealt with a lot - did it need more conversation on? I think it would indeed make for intersting dialogue, but I'm not sure how relevant it is when at the end of the day, your final edit must have scenes which all are relevant and it might be sacrificing a more relevant scene for a scene which simply pads out the pace at the end.

Adding to that scene may have just slowed the pace right down as well. You want things to build up fast and furious at the end and you don't want to the momentum to be deviated when in essense it's not even the final scene... the regeneration was to follow..



That may conflict with the whole parralel being presented (the Dalek Emperor thinks it's a god but wants to do evil, Rose achieves something close to a god and is only interested in good) but it would make it feel less like a cheap last minute resolution and more like what we'd been building up to.
That comes down to one's own take I suppose. Personally I felt Boom Town did enough to make the TARDIS application seem relevant and not out of the blue. It wasn't expected in it's resolution, but the whole episode was about misdirection. One expected a more lateral resolution; a resolution more practical, and then the story turns on it's head again.

Not saying your wrong, just giving my take.

[HellCat]

Interesting idea, but with a 13 episode format, would another episode to delve into those characters be justifyied enough? Would it simply pad out elements which didn't need to be dealt with. After all the characters you mention were never meant to be integral, just elements to shift the plot and then to be bumped in the final episode. IMO anyhow. :)
I understand that these weren't really important characters. But they were obviously there to try and get across the emotional aspect of the story- the Daleks are invading Earth and slaughtering any and all humans. The short "Want to go for a drink if we survive?" scene between the two employees obviously hinted that Davies was trying to make their deaths carry some weight. Perhaps if they were capable of telling stories over 6 or so episodes these secondary characters would have more impact on the viewer. I'm not saying a full 6 episodes or even for this story specifically, but you get the idea.



That's a suggestion, and I agree that would have been interesting - to see her battle with ability over conscience. I guess in the end, while I think it may have added a layer to the end, I suppose when you have 45 minutes, you simply just have to make sure all in there is the most relevant material. Afterall, the issue of her accepting her father's death had been dealt with in "Fathers Day" and again earlier this episode.. the Time War again was something this episode had dealt with a lot - did it need more conversation on? I think it would indeed make for intersting dialogue, but I'm not sure how relevant it is when at the end of the day, your final edit must have scenes which all are relevant and it might be sacrificing a more relevant scene for a scene which simply pads out the pace at the end.

Adding to that scene may have just slowed the pace right down as well. You want things to build up fast and furious at the end and you don't want to the momentum to be deviated when in essense it's not even the final scene... the regeneration was to follow..


That comes down to one's own take I suppose. Personally I felt Boom Town did enough to make the TARDIS application seem relevant and not out of the blue. It wasn't expected in it's resolution, but the whole episode was about misdirection. One expected a more lateral resolution; a resolution more practical, and then the story turns on it's head again.

Not saying your wrong, just giving my take.
Like you say, Rose had come to terms with things and was perhaps better at doing that with others (as highlighted when the Doctor notes she hadn't even considered the 2 of them using the Tardis to escape). I think the hard thing is for me to explain why I see the ending as cheap. It's not that I picture that Davies was sitting there one night nearing the end of this script and thinking "Oh crap, how can I have them defeat the Daleks?!...Hey, I know- Uber Rose!", it's just how quickly this comes up and is just as easily ended. I have no problem with writers being able to pull a plot twist that no one saw coming- that's good/great writing. But in this instance Davies wrapped everything up too neatly. I could have excepted all these ideas (super powerful Rose and the explanation for Bad Wolf)if they'd just been presented better. Instead they all just get crammed in too fast. If just a little bit more time had been taken I personally would have been more satisified. Considering Rose was pretty much untouchable at the end, they surely could have used that as an excuse for safely having enough time to the resolution instead of "I'm Bad Wolf, I'll be spreading some clues for my past self. Burn, Daleks, Burn!!"

[Zero-V]

Davies should be given more episodes to tell a story in as the characters focused on (Lynda, the greedy gameshow winner, and the Gamestation staff) weren't connected with the audience enough in my opinion for them to be worried about or their deaths to carry weight.Why say "they were'nt connected with the audience in my opinion?" You're one person, you don't know what the audience is thinking.

Lynda with a Y represented the innocent of a Dalek story, likible, and then disposed of to rob the viewer of sentiment. A lot of fan reactions were quite saddened at her death

[HellCat]

Why say "they were'nt connected with the audience in my opinion?" You're one person, you don't know what the audience is thinking.

Lynda with a Y represented the innocent of a Dalek story, likible, and then disposed of to rob the viewer of sentiment. A lot of fan reactions were quite saddened at her death
Zero, let me make one thing straight since you're failing to grasp it- my comments on this episode and on most things are just my opinion. I know this. You know this. You don't have to keep beating me over the head and claiming I'm acting like my opinion is fact, because I'm not that damn arrogant.

[The Guitar Slayer]

Lucky me, I popped over to the UK in time for the last four weeks or so, and everything else was viewable thanks to the boyfriend. Just to say, I've never watched Doctor Who before. I know this series has gotten a bit of lip from the hard-core Whovians, but it worked well for a new viewer. The point of this exercise was a reinvention for a new generation (the last series was over 15 years ago).

I really liked the last two episodes. They kept me right on the edge of the sofa til the end. Daleks are always fun, what can I say? The rest of the series was well-done as well. I don't feel like it dumbed anything down; it just retranslated it for people new to the concept.

The whole Bad Wolf thing was a well-planned subplot throughout the series. The first hint for me that it wasn't a Dalek plot was the fact that it was first featured in the Victorian episode where Rose's mind has the image of a wolf inside of it.

GodRose -- I think it was the TARDIS and Rose speaking at the same time (shiny on: TARDIS. shiny off: Rose). There were certain lines that were applicable to both, but the eye thing was a good indicator as to what the TARDIS was saying with or without Rose, while the normal eyes was just simply Rose.

Rose is all glowy and yet the Doctor dies -- I tend to think of this in terms of radiation. Rose may have gotten an uber dose of it this episode, but the Doctor has been traveling with the TARDIS for the past 900+ years. Cumulatively, that's a lot more "radiation." Time in the TARDIS + everything he absorbed from Rose = massive spontaneous cell death. If Rose had been running around with him for 900+ years, the same would have happened to her; arguably, since she is totally human, she wouldn't have lasted even as long as that.

Kissy Kissy time -- "BLASPHEMY!!" Actually no. It's simply evoluation of the character, and also the fact that RTD is taking in not only the series but the books as well. In one book, apparently Doctor 7 (Sylvester McCoy) reveals that he forced regeneration on Doctor 6 (Colin Baker). Once he must regenerate into the 8th Doctor, his previous regenerations will lock him in a room without doors. It's like severing part of the psyche or putting something in a different place on the mental hard drive away from everything else. By removing this freezer, everything warms up a bit. As a result, you go from the cold manipulating McCoy to the more human Paul McGann (who kisses his companion of sorts) and Eccleston (who is just fantastic).

Take into account the Time War as well. Regardless of where he went gallivanting, the Doctor had Gallifrey and the other Time Lords to fall back on. Once they were gone, he was like the "last" Dalek. Rose having that short period of time where she saw what he saw gave him a temporary kindred.

final thoughts: I'm really mad the board ate my last more eloquent post. Jack is going to be one pissed pooch when he comes back. The TARDIS not only looks like it's been through the war, it looks like it's having the most development in any one Doctor regeneration. David Tennant has a collection of Tom Baker-esque expressions, seemingly.

[James]

Nice idea GS. While unoffical (the idea of the 7th Doctors Room With No Doors is technically unoffical, but generally consider canon) it does explain the warmth and humanity from 8th Doctor on compared to the manipulating 7th Doctor.

I've not reviewed this per se. My reviews for this season (ones I've not posted here are listed here at G1 - if you care.. :)

http://www.gallifreyone.com/reviewer.php?id=James%20McLean

[Kathy Kane]

The Parting of the Ways, in which;
The Doctor makes a change, Jack gets left behind and Rose turns in Dark Pheonix.

It's sad that this will be the last of the Doctor 'till the Christmas Special. I absolutely loved this show and it's 9th Doctor.
GOOD- Rose and her devotion to getting back to the Doctor, Jack taking charge, the Doctor getting Rose out of danger.
BAD- the Daleks are real (a word I can't use on a public Forum), the slaughter of those people on the bottom floor, "are you a coward or a killer?"
BAD WOLF- I don't think that the bad wolf is Rose I think RTD still has a few tricks up his sleeve.
UGLY-- The "GOD" Dalek was really ugly!

2nd series- I hope to see more of Jack and less of Mickey, I'm hoping to like the new Doctor, I'll be awaiting the X-mas special.

EDIT- I forgot to mention the Kiss, I say get over it! I liked it, he was saving her life and showing that he cared about her, above others.

[Zero-V]

BAD WOLF- I don't think that the bad wolf is Rose I think RTD still has a few tricks up his sleeve.
Stage One: Denial

Sorry, Rose and the TARDIS WERE Bad Wolf, Davis' interview on Confidential pretty much summed it up when it came to the actions behind Rose and The Doctors' decisions to help one another

"None of this mythology, or grand stand efforts, it comes down to very human traits"

Anyone expecting Bad Wolf to be Davros or something threating or evil really need to wonder how narrow-minded that method of assumption is

[Matt-a-Tastic]

Also, wasn't the Time War story published in a series of books or Audio plays or summat ..?

[Zero-V]

Also, wasn't the Time War story published in a series of books or Audio plays or summat ..?
The novels have a completly different time war, The Doctor fought Faction Paradox in that story arc, not the Daleks.

The odd thing is, Gallifrey, and it's histroy was wiped out in "The Ancestor Cell", and the final Eigth Doctor novel really did'nt tie that part up, I just say "screw it" and refuse to count them in continunity now, except for the Audios, because at least there closer to a medium interpretation of Doctor Who

[James]

The novels have a completly different time war, The Doctor fought Faction Paradox in that story arc, not the Daleks.

The odd thing is, Gallifrey, and it's histroy was wiped out in "The Ancestor Cell", and the final Eigth Doctor novel really did'nt tie that part up, I just say "screw it" and refuse to count them in continunity now, except for the Audios, because at least there closer to a medium interpretation of Doctor Who

The last 8th Doctor Who novel was meant to sort that mess out, but apparently it's mixed opinion to whether it does or not.. certainly not the closure I think people hoped it would promise...

[Zero-V]

The last 8th Doctor Who novel was meant to sort that mess out, but apparently it's mixed opinion to whether it does or not.. certainly not the closure I think people hoped it would promise...Speaking of "no closure"

The Eighth Doctor comic strip continunity have had to take a complete backseat so far to the new Eccelston strips, lets' hope when Tenant takes over in that regard, we get back to tying up what the hell Jofaras' agenda is.

Another odd problem is, at the conclusion of "The Flood" (which also had a great parody of Survival to wrap up Mcganns' run without a regeneration) The Doctor absorbs the time/space vortex to destroy the Cybermens' fleet, yet in the series, this kills him, I suppose it could be argued that it was only a peice of the vortex and not the entire animal (The Cyber-Leader addressed it was of this nature)

[Bradley316]

Finally got around to watching "The Parting of the Ways". Well, I thought it was a great way to end the season. Definitely a 10 out of 10 on my OFFICIAL RATING scale.

Looks like I missed all the excitement in this thread as well!

I thought just about everything worked. All the Rose stuff didn't bother me at all. I never felt this part of the episode dragged. And the revelation about the meaning of "Bad Wolf" was a pleasant surprise. I'm happy that it was Rose who was behind it. As Jim and others said, it completely defied expectations, certainly mine. I never would have really guessed it myself!

The music was fantastic! Great score.

I'm glad Cap'n Jack was revived and I look forward to his return and I hope that it will be as an ongoing companion again. Jack really turned out to be a great character. I was very trepidatious about him as a companion, but I was glad I was proven wrong.

The Daleks. Being a long-time fan (20 years plus) of Doctor Who, I'll always be a sucker for Dalek antics. I especially was ecstatic when one Dalek, who's eyepiece is shot out, utters my favorite Dalek quote, "My mission is impaired! I cannot see!"

Sorry to see Lynda bite the dust, but Zero-V and others already pointed out her role in the story. The sympathetic innocent. She was developed enough for me to mourn her loss.:( As for the others, I didn't really care about them too much. OK, there was one corny bit with the male Op going berzerk after the female Op gets toasted. I was actually glad the Daleks put that putz out of his misery!:D

And so this is the end for Christopher Eccleston. I'll miss him. I really enjoyed his performance as the Doctor. I actually wish he would have stayed on for at least one more series. I think it's a shame. I've gotten so used to Eccleston as being the Doctor for the moment! Still, I look forward to seeing David Tenant in the role as Dcotor #10. That was quite the regeneration scene, too!

10/10 for episode 13/The Parting of the Ways

Overall, this has been a great new series. Totally exceeded my expectations.

[Frozen]

It was the genesis of the message, and it applied to the situation, Rose was the big bad wolf, Anubis, bringer of life and death

...do your homework.


Um, MY homework tells me that Anubis is a JACKAL headed god, and his role in the pantheon of Egyptian gods is to weigh your heart in the after-life and judge if you are worthy of being evolated into "paradise" - he's nothing to do with "bringing life and death". That's what my homework tells me, anyway...

Y'know, sometimes you see a thread and think "Yeah, I've got an opinion on that, I'll throw in my two cents...", then you see that posting what you think is a valid, salient point is jus' gonna make more aggro than it's worth... A shame.

[Zero-V]

Um, MY homework tells me that Anubis is a JACKAL headed god, and his role in the pantheon of Egyptian gods is to weigh your heart in the after-life and judge if you are worthy of being evolated into "paradise" - he's nothing to do with "bringing life and death". That's what my homework tells me, anyway...
Then tell that to informant who supplied that crap to the BBCs' Bad Wolf site, seriously, it's right up there.

[Frozen]

Anyone expecting Bad Wolf to be Davros or something threating or evil really need to wonder how narrow-minded that method of assumption isWell, my assumption, narrow-minded or otherwise, basically went along the lines of Adam was gonna be Bad Wolf/Dalek leader. Why? Let me explain...

There's a theory in writing called "Contract with the Reader" that states, pretty simply, that if you show a character put a loaded gun in his pocket, he's gonna use that gun at the most dramatically appropriate moment.

Now, for me, Adam was that loaded gun. He had knowledge of the Daleks, he had knowledge of the station, he was a genius and he had just cause for having a grudge against the Doctor - motive, method, ability - the three things you need ot make a convincing villain.

Also, without Adam being Bad Wolf - what was the point of his character AT ALL? He just turned up, tried to be naughty and got his wrists slapped - a pointless waste of air-time in a show that has struggled to cram the GOOD stuff into 45 mins... I REALLY hoped Davies was gonna salvage that and make Adam's introduction a stroke of genius, the new Davros. Looks like I was wrong... :sad:

And as for God Rose, well, that left me feeling kinda cheated too. I've always thought that the BEST writing, in ANY genre and in ANY medium, is the kind that achieves a subtle interaction with the audience, that gives them tiny clues and fore-shadowing as to what is to come so that when it happens the audience has that "Ahhhh... yeah... THAT makes sense - I shoulda seen that coming!" moment, or pats themselves on the back 'cos they worked it out/guessed correctly.

Now, for me, God Rose was a Deus ex Machine (or maybe "God Rose in the Time Machine") - it didn't make sense, it wasn't fore-shadowed, and it looked like a convenient way to get Davies out of a corner he'd painted himself into.

The frustrating thing for me is Davies is an obvious talent, but he keeps making mistakes and errors in pacing that you can't help but think "Isn't someone EDITING this?"

THAT'S my reasoning, and as I type it and read it back to myself, it all seems to make perfect sense to me - nothing "narrow-minded" about it... :confused:

Well, after saying that I wouldn't throw in my two cents, looks like I justed chucked away my loose change after all..! :p

[Stewie]

I agree with all of that.

[HellCat]

And so ends the first season and with it the Ninth Doctor's tenure.

In retrospect, although not my favourite resolution, I think 'Goddess Rose' ties into the overall wider story and becomes much more relevant when we see what happens to Donna. Granted it still feels cheap and makes Rose a Mary Sue, but my opinion has softened a bit.

We also have the start of a new life for Jack, one which will greatly change him next we see him. I miss the simpler fun loving Jack. Although I appreciate the depth he's gained, some of the things they've done with him just make him feel like a Doctor for the modern age.

Which leads nicely into the end of Nine. Over these talkbacks I've been very positive about him, but he was obviously playing it safe. It was the success of the show that allowed Ten to be a little more classically eccentric and barmy. I do have to wonder what would have happened if he'd stayed. Trying to pin down the truth of Eccleston's feelings on the role isn't easy.

Overall, a strong first season for a revival. Some ideas didn't work but the majority did. Sadly, I think with season two they got a little too giddy...but before that, we have the first Christmas special and Ten's proper introduction.