I don't like this Batman

[Batmex]

"Ears are too long" this new design looks a little inferior compared to NBTAS.

What's your oppinion about the new design for Bats and Supes?

[Batman 80]

The only thing that bothers me at times is that Superman looks old in some shot. But it doesn't take anything away from the show. As for Batman's new design, it pays homage to Bob Kane's design of Batman which is fine by me.

[Trent Lane]

Batman's newest design is probably my favorite. It works really well, I've always liked the pouch belt over the metal looking one, retro yet so much more Batman....

[Wing Zero]

Although this Batman design isn't bad, I prefer the TNBA one actually(yes you read right). I loved the monochromatic(excluding the belt) color scheme and his belt was the "pouch" version which I also liked. Plus, he looks a lot more threatening in TNBA :)

[Harvey Dent]

I wish his cape and cowl didn't have the highlight, and I wish he would've kept the gloves from TNBA. Other than that, it looks good.

[Samhaine]

I love the highlights. One of the things I missed most in TNBA was the highlights. I think they took the best things from both looks and made a really cool look. Though, BtAS look will always be the best.

[James Harvey]

Superman's old look can look sorta bad from time to time when animated wrong. I find those lines uder his eyes a bit unnecessary. But the design is okay. The grey streak int he hair makes him look a bit dignified. As for Batman - I really like this design. While I miss the mono-chromatic design of TNBA, this one really looks nice.

[The Flash]

I love the Bob Kane look!! As far as the Superman thing goes, I don't get why he looks so old, but Batman doesn't. Shouldn't Batman be showing some age too? Other then that it doesn't bug me.

[Green Lantern]

I don't mind that Superman looks old, but his costume glares. The red is much too bright.

And these animators can't draw the S-shield worth s...salt.

Other than that, I don't really mind Superman so much.

Batman, however, looks short in some shots. I don't like how small he now looks. He doesn't look nearly as threatening.

[James Harvey]

I'm not too fond of the red shorts, either. I was hoping they'd make them dark red, like in TAS. They do look odd from some shots.

[kid_flash]

I really like Batman's new design. I think the Batman design gets better with each show (I could make an entire post about my feelings over the BTAS design). The long ears are awesome, the highlights work well with the show, and the pouch belt is something Batman should always have. What do you hold in that metal belt? Tylonal? There's not much room for anything bigger.

As for Superman, I'm just glad they didn't reuse the STAS design, so JL sets apart.

[Toddman]

Originally posted by Dick Grayson
Superman's old look can look sorta bad from time to time when animated wrong. I find those lines uder his eyes a bit unnecessary. But the design is okay. The grey streak int he hair makes him look a bit dignified. As for Batman - I really like this design. While I miss the mono-chromatic design of TNBA, this one really looks nice.

DG, I agree with you 100% on the marks under Superman's eyes. They look okay in a Bruce Timm drawing, but the animators tend to set them too low under his eyes, making them look like bags. TMS really needs to get ahold of an episode of JL, and show these Koko clowns how its done.

As for the "grey" in Superman's hair, I don't think that's really supposed to be grey hair. It looks as if anytime the creators want to show a "sheen" on any character's black hair, they go with dark grey (just as the comics use blue). I don't think that it is meant to be true grey hair, because Terry Mcginnis also sported a "grey sheen" and he sure wasn't greying.

Toddman

[James Harvey]

Originally posted by Toddman

As for the "grey" in Superman's hair, I don't think that's really supposed to be grey hair. It looks as if anytime the creators want to show a "sheen" on any character's black hair, they go with dark grey (just as the comics use blue). I don't think that it is meant to be true grey hair, because Terry Mcginnis also sported a "grey sheen" and he sure wasn't greying.

Ahh...good point. I forgot about Terry's streak in his hair. My main overall gripe is still with those line sunder his eyes. Get rid of those and the design is perfect. Or just tweak them abit. Timm did a perfect rendition of the eyes in the cover to JUSTICE LEAGUE ADVENTURES #1, before Ross painted over it. It looks absolutely perfect as a small dash under the eys, not a line.

[The New Batman]

I like the original Batman the best from The Animated Series. I like the mechanical belt better than the pouch belt. He was also a lot "darker." I hope they make this Batman as "dark" as he once was. I despised the changes they made from TAS to TNBA, especially the designs of the villians. I like the fact that Batman has a dark-blue cape again. I like it better than the black.

[MattL.]

I like them all and the way I see it, Bruce Timm has gotten better and better with each passing Batman design. Just when you think he's totally nailed it...he totally nails it.

I really dig the current Batman design. I'm glad to see the blue highlight and I dig the longer ears, slightly slimmer duild and technical looking utility-belt.

Combined with Kevin Conroys voice and once again, Bruce Timm gives us the perfect Batman. :D

[Toddman]

Originally posted by The New Batman
I like the original Batman the best from The Animated Series. I like the mechanical belt better than the pouch belt. He was also a lot "darker." I hope they make this Batman as "dark" as he once was. I despised the changes they made from TAS to TNBA, especially the designs of the villians. I like the fact that Batman has a dark-blue cape again. I like it better than the black.

I've always thought just the opposite. To me Batman appeared much darker in TNBA compaired to BTAS. He was darker in regard to the color pallete used in his visual design as well as the mood of his character. He was less talkative in TNBA and just seemed more grim.

Toddman

[James Harvey]

The TNBA design of Batman, I found, to be alot more darker than the BTAS one. The shading and costume was much darker in the TNBA version. The TAS version had that light blue color on the inside of the cape and the grey looked a bit light. TNBA definatly had the darker look, but the JL look is good as well, also darker than the TAS design.

[Wing Zero]

I think in the art book Batman:Animated, it states that Timm thought Batman had gotten darker over the years and stripped his suit of color, giving him the darker toned atmosphere. I too think TNBA was much darker than BTAS. In TNBA, Bruce's voice changed from Bruce's voice in TAS to much more like Batman's voice, although Conroy does lighten up the voice when he's speaking as Bruce.....barely. But the overall mood of Batman in TNBA was much more serious.

[MattL.]

When it comes to Supermans design, while I dont hate it or mind the idea that maybe he's older in this show there are somethings about the model that strike me as odd decisions on Bruce Timms part.

His mantra has always been to make it as simple and sleek as possible so that it will animate better and is less likey to get screwed up.

So it's really odd that he chose to put the extra lines on Supermans face and oddist of all, Superman has 3 cape pleates on his left shoulder and two on his right. Look at the model sheet, this is something done on purpose.

My question is why? This is practically begging the animation studios to screw it up. Its a wonky effect even in the model.

All this in addition the the S which is a hard graphic to animate anyway. The Kingdom Come S would probably be easier to animate consistantly.

[Supermon]

I wouldn't mind the older looking Supes if he didn't have the younger sounding voice. It's such a contradiction.

[Justice League 2000]

I like them all it doesn:t in matter which costume it is. and why is
everybody talking about batman ears is long? :wakko:

[The Green Hornet]

hmmmm considering the recent Aquaman storyline (involving his transformation) wouldnt it be cool to see a story line involving Superman transforming into a more "Kingdom Come" like superman? at least costume wise. not only would it look better than the current one he's wearing on JL but im SURE it would be easier to draw.....

[MattL.]

Well, the usual conatations of a darkening of his soul on some level represented by the presence of any black on his outfit aside...

I think the Kingdom Come suit is probably the most natural looking evolution of the costume you could do.

If you had to change Supermans costume at all for any reasons whatsoever, then this is the *one and only* costume change I could live with.

Alex Ross keeps all the key elements intact while the black on the sheild and belt really help to bring out the other colors while not being obtrusive itself.

The S on a sheild graphic is combined into one slick and seamless shape. I've always thought that this design is very belivable for the idea of it being an Kryptonian symbol that Lois and others would mistakingly view as an "S".

[James Harvey]

I think it would be great to get that black sheild on Superman. After rewathcing SECRET ORIGINS I could barely stand the bad animation on the 'S'. The current comic book Superman has darkened his costume in mourning for the events of OUR WORLDS AT WAR. I think that costume could easily translate onto the show, given the proper plot.

[MattL.]

Hmm, well see thats the only downside.

I love that suit and would like to see it in the series, but I dont want Superman be darkened or in mourning or being a depressed slob like he's being portrayed in current comics.

Though one way you could do it is to do a really cool (not to mention more sensical and less cluttered) version of the Death of Superman story and the KC outfit be the one that he wears when he returns.

I've already discussed my plot ideas for a lean, mean TAS version of that story on another thread. Doomsday? We don' need no stinking Doomsday.

[James Harvey]

Originally posted by MattL.
Though one way you could do it is to do a really cool (not to mention more sensical and less cluttered) version of the Death of Superman story and the KC outfit be the one that he wears when he returns.

That's a real good idea. Superman is killed, (or something like that) and awakens a bit more darker and driven than before. And becuase of that, be darkens his costume and slaps on the black. Could work very nicely.

[MattL.]

More driven yes, but not darker please.

People are always looking for an excuse to turn Superman into the Punisher.

But obviously the experience would affect him and would make him more focused on his overall goals and a little less likely to take crap from people about it.

Still though, he would remain the symbol of hope he as always been.

[James Harvey]

We're not suggesting turning Superman into Punisher, but just make him a bit darker. Who knows - that could lead to some interesting moments and plot developments.

[Heehaw]

I'd have to say the JL Batman is my 2nd favorite, behind the original one. I'm not too fond of some of the redesigns in the new style show. The JL look is basically the combination of the two. The body is TNBA, the head(ears excluded) and highligts are BTAS.

As for JL Supes, not good. He just looks silly, of course, he's yet to be animated well, so maybe I'll come around if that ever happens.

[James Harvey]

As for JL Supes, not good. He just looks silly, of course, he's yet to be animated well, so maybe I'll come around if that ever happens. [/B]

They need to get TMS to animate an episode so we can see how good the Superman redesign is. I just don't think they've gotten the new Superman look right yet. The Animators can't seem to handle the line under his right eye and the ceekbones.

[Heehaw]

Agreed. I'd love to see a TMS episode. With our luck, it would be one of their "off" days. :)

[Wing Zero]

Originally posted by Heehaw
The body is TNBA, the head(ears excluded) and highligts are BTAS.

Wait...isn' the JL Batman skinner/slender than the previous two designs? At least that's what it looks like to me.

[Kathiboo]

I've always like the first design of Batman's costume in BTAS. When they switched to NBTAS, I think the artists just got lazy, especially with the way the villains were animated. Joker's face lost all its color and details, Poison Ivy and Catwoman got whiter skin than Joker's, both their costumes lost all the great features, like Catwoman's long gloves and the big eyeholes in her mask that highlighted her big green eyes, and Killer Croc turned from green to grey. The only character to get better looking was The Penguin, who looked more like Burgess Meredith (second version)than Danny Devito (first version). Why do the illustrators feel they have to change the design just because they are doing a new show? Keep the designs the same so viewers have some familiarity. Most people I know who are becoming JL fans are fans of BTAS, STAS, and BB, too.

[Maxie Zeus]

Originally posted by Kathiboo
I've always like the first design of Batman's costume in BTAS. When they switched to NBTAS, I think the artists just got lazy, especially with the way the villains were animated. Joker's face lost all its color and details, Poison Ivy and Catwoman got whiter skin than Joker's, both their costumes lost all the great features, like Catwoman's long gloves and the big eyeholes in her mask that highlighted her big green eyes, and Killer Croc turned from green to grey. The only character to get better looking was The Penguin, who looked more like Burgess Meredith (second version)than Danny Devito (first version). Why do the illustrators feel they have to change the design just because they are doing a new show? Keep the designs the same so viewers have some familiarity. Most people I know who are becoming JL fans are fans of BTAS, STAS, and BB, too.

The changes were made, apparently, because they would be easier to animate for the action scenes. If you compare BTAS and TNBA you will see that the action sequences tend to be a lot swifter and cleaner, and characters move a lot more easily about the screen.

And artists should always have the right to experiment with designs. BTAS was a far more stylized show than the action series that came before it, after all.

[Wing Zero]

I think also one reason for the change was that when Batman was re-launched, Kids' WB wanted their own special look compared to when BTAS aired on Fox Kids(I don't think I got my stations switched this time lol).

[Batman 80]

I like all the designs. They make the characters look sleek and most of the time like you say the animation is fluid. Perhaps a Night of Shadows will be animated by TMS. As for making Superman darker, for some odd reason I like him being the so called boy scout. I guess after all the Christopher Reeve movies I got used to seeing Superman portrayed that way. However, I do like to see him lose his temper once in awhile(like in Legacy). I think it adds to his character even more.

[Toddman]

Originally posted by Kathiboo
I've always like the first design of Batman's costume in BTAS. When they switched to NBTAS, I think the artists just got lazy, especially with the way the villains were animated. Joker's face lost all its color and details, Poison Ivy and Catwoman got whiter skin than Joker's, both their costumes lost all the great features, like Catwoman's long gloves and the big eyeholes in her mask that highlighted her big green eyes, and Killer Croc turned from green to grey. The only character to get better looking was The Penguin, who looked more like Burgess Meredith (second version)than Danny Devito (first version). Why do the illustrators feel they have to change the design just because they are doing a new show? Keep the designs the same so viewers have some familiarity. Most people I know who are becoming JL fans are fans of BTAS, STAS, and BB, too.

I've always felt that the designs used in TNBA were closer to Bruce Timm's own personal style than the BTAS designs. Actually that's not really true. What I should say is that the new designs were able to be ANIMATED in a way that remained truer to Timm's vision. If you compare the two looks for Batman side-by-side there's really not that much of a difference in the amount of detail. Check it out:

http://www.toonzone.net/worldsfinest/worldsfinestpage/frames.htm

The TNBA design is more angular and the few details that were stripped away seemed to leave less room for interpretation by the overseas animation studios. Personally, I think that this was done intentionally, so that the creators original ideas came through more clearly.

And I agree w/you about some of the new designs not being as interesting or as fun as the originals, but I don't think that the Penguin was the only design that was better. I think the Scarecrow, Bane, Batgirl, and Batman himself ALL had superior designs in TNBA.

Toddman

[Wing Zero]

Definitely Scarecrow and Bane benfitted a lot from the redesigns...but Batman is still the best out of them all. hehe

[James Harvey]

Here's the direct link to the image gallery:

http://www.toonzone.net/worldsfinest/batsupes/imagegallery.html

Scroll down to the bottom to see the side-by side comparisons.

Superman definatly needs to cut lose once and awhile. I can't image all the frusttration and anger he has pent up from all his years as a superhero. There must be plenty.

As for designs, I'm really liking this JL design more and more. It just seems to be the perfect bringing togethor of the designs. It just seems to sleek and just works. I love how the mask area resembles the early B:TAS design (trust me - it's there) and the chest is more clearly defined. Below are the three designs for the batsuit (if anyone wants to color and trim the model sheet - that'd be awesome!).

http://wf.toonzone.net/batsupes/btastnba1.jpg

http://wf.toonzone.net/jl/batmanmodelsheet.jpg

[Batmex]

Intersting skecthes, He does not look that bad here :cool:

[Wing Zero]

From that angle looks pretty cool, but others where the angle of the ears is much more apparant. Anyways you know which design I like the most :)
<----------------------

[James Harvey]

The ears were the bigegst complaint of changes that I remember some people complaining about. I think the ears look pretty cool, and fit. They are animated weird sometimes. In SECRTE ORIGINS there were a couple fo times when the ears just looked completely off.

[Wing Zero]

I think the reason I kinda dislike the ears isn't actually the design's fault, its just that during the show, the ears are sometimes made too long which make him really goofy.