Batman:The Dark Knight Adventures #15 - "The Night Of The Crow 2" - Now ONLINE!

[Bird Boy]

World's Finest Presents


BATMAN: The Dark Knight Adventures #15
(rated 9/10 by Comics International)



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Second part of a two part celebration of
Batman: The Dark Knight Adventures
second birthday!

"Night Of The Crow Part 2"
Story, linework - James Mclean
Colours and Letters - Kristian Trigwell
Cover - Mathew Spaull

Barbara Gordon lies unconscious in the cave
as the SCARECROW and his controlled
lackey, BRUCE WAYNE
search for the wheelchaired bound heroine...

BONUS Anniversary extras!

Pinups
Gordon and Gun - James Mclean
Romance and the Bat - Mathew Spaull
Wing of the Bat - Romain Ronzeau


Interview:
Maggie Rose (DKA's first writer and colour artist)
talks about her experience in starting up the comic
two years ago.





Batman: The Dark Knight Adventures
Webmaster: Joesph D.
Editor: James Mclean
Founder: Ian Moore
dka@toonzone.net

[James]

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What NEXT? (http://showthread.php?t=127755&highlight=dka)

Dark Knight Adventures #16



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Issue 16
Barbara and Bruce head across international waters
on the hunt for their lost companions!
OUT THIS SUMMER!

Batman Beyond: Stripped
(http://wf.toonzone.net/DKA/archive/strips/)Book two

http://wf.toonzone.net/DKA/previews/stripped%20promo.JPG
The mystery surrounding Terry McGinnis continues as Batman Beyond:
Stripped continues. Join Bruce, Barbara and a host of characters
- past and present - in the weekly news-strip!

Batman: The Dark Knight Adventures -
The Lost Chapters

(http://wf.toonzone.net/DKA/lostchapters/)http://wf.toonzone.net/DKA/lostchapters/lost.gif (http://null)
(http://null)
NEW EPISODE! (http://wf.toonzone.net/DKA/lostchapters/)
A new episode this week! A small epilogue to #15
looks at the impact of the
Scarecrow's intrusion to Wayne Manor!



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TALKBACK!
WHAT DID YOU THINK OF ISSUE #15?


GIVE US YOUR THOUGHTS!

[James]

N.b Just before going live, we found a couple of typos. They will be corrected in due course. Apologies for any disruption to the read!

EDIT: Typos amended. :)

[Batman's Biggest Fan]

All right Barbara can walk again! :D Nice way of explaining it. (I always liked her more as Batgirl than Oracle)

[James]

The full extent of her new costume will be looked at in a little more detail when we publish the "Lost Chapter" epilogue to this story.

On a totally different note, to the enote subscribers:

We are aware that some servers are rejecting some of the mailshots. If you have signed up and not received and enote for this issue, we apologise. It's quite likely that your email is being rejected as spam. We make all enotes anon as to secure your privacy and that approach can hit the spam filters.. Also, we have such a large mailing list now and ever though we send into smaller groups, it could be that some servers reject the email on the premise it could look like a mass spam send out. The smaller groups we send are still fairly large.

We are currently looking at other options to co-ordinate the mailshots. If there is a problem, we do apologise - you've not been ignored, merely an issue with the technical aspects of the enotes.

Bear in mind the enotes are also rare. We only send them out to inform on new issues and not to promote DKA on a regular basis (unless something big is happening with DKA we think you would WANT to know!), so if you haven't had an enote for a while, but had one today, then don't worry, you've not missed any!

[Spectre]

That was an excellent issue of Dark Knight Adventures, and it was one that struck particularly close to my own opinions. I've always felt that neither the public Bruce Wayne nor Batman were a complete representation of the actual man, the one that drove them both. The real, private Bruce Wayne is somewhere between the two, a fusion of both halves. And I see that at work here. It was good to see Bruce finally come to his senses.

I liked Barbara's importance to the story, and how she talked about her motivation for taking up the mantle of the Bat. However, in light of "Shadow of the Bat", I'm going to assume her reasons given were reasons for becoming Batgirl full-time, as she is in TNBA. I'm still not entirely happy with her being paralyzed, but for now I can deal with her able to walk for a short while.

On that note, loved the first generation of the Beyond suit. Who'd have thought it would be made for Barbara? It actually kind of reminds me of this old TV show, "Mantis", which also featured a wheelchair-bound protagonist whose superhero identity was born of wanting to walk again. Although if Babs is staying in the suit for now, I can see inevitable comparisons to Cassandra, the current Batgirl in the comics, whose suit features a full-face cowl. Hey, SJJ, if you gave her a cape, the resemblence would be uncanny! :D

And now it's off to England for Alfred and Tim! Just like the 2nd Red Claw episode of BTAS!

[James]

That was an excellent issue of Dark Knight Adventures, and it was one that struck particularly close to my own opinions. I've always felt that neither the public Bruce Wayne nor Batman were a complete representation of the actual man, the one that drove them both. The real, private Bruce Wayne is somewhere between the two, a fusion of both halves. And I see that at work here. It was good to see Bruce finally come to his senses.
Yeah, it's nice to have "Bruce" back. Which in canon sort of explains the slight shift in character between seasons one and two of Justice League. As for what else you say here, what can I say but... I agree.

Well sort of. I think Batman's a great character because you can look at him from so many angles and argue strong cases for perspectives of the Bruce Wayne/Batman dynamic. Personally, I think this one suits the Bruce Wayne/Batman of the DCAU and to some extent mocks the late 20th Century analogical interpretation of his duality... that in some way, Bruce believes the duality perception bestowed upon him by the Frank Millar generation... only to have his inner self kick it down. Hard to explain, but fun to toy with.:)



I liked Barbara's importance to the story, and how she talked about her motivation for taking up the mantle of the Bat. However, in light of "Shadow of the Bat", I'm going to assume her reasons given were reasons for becoming Batgirl full-time, as she is in TNBA.
Nail on the head. It's to define the change of character in Barbara between BTAS and TNBA rather than her very initial reasons for becoming Batgirl. The more she was Batgirl the more confident she was she was bearing the burden from her father, when she it's "full time" she's very happy, actually feeling a subconscious burden being released from her as she actively takes of the strain from her father.. something until know she had not recognized.


On that note, loved the first generation of the Beyond suit. Who'd have thought it would be made for Barbara? I've been looking forward to that revelation for sometime now, well over a year. :) Glad you like! As an added bonus, if you check out the background of the cave in Starcrossed.. you may see a familar site in there... thank Kris for the foresight to alter the colours on the suit to link to that great piece of canon!



It actually kind of reminds me of this old TV show, "Mantis", which also featured a wheelchair-bound protagonist whose superhero identity was born of wanting to walk again.
The idea didn't really come from a source, as it was a natural progression of having her "broken" to me - aside from her healing naturally. It has been done in comics - in particular I recall Tony Stark had a long stint as Iron Man when he was in a wheelchair. So I can't count originality on that on two previous counts.



Although if Babs is staying in the suit for now, I can see inevitable comparisons to Cassandra, the current Batgirl in the comics, whose suit features a full-face cowl. Hey, SJJ, if you gave her a cape, the resemblence would be uncanny! :D
Hehe. Kris wanted to make the suit more like Cass' for that connection, I wanted to keep it very BB so people could see the reference. That said, if you can see a resemblence in it's character and application, then that's great, you've pleased both of us!

As for whether she's keeping it, a Lost Chapter due this week will deal with that issue. Watch out for that... actually, maybe week after as I've just remembered Mynd (who is editor on the Lost Chapters) is away... ><



And now it's off to England for Alfred and Tim! Just like the 2nd Red Claw episode of BTAS!
Yep, well there is no Red Claw, but I'm trying aim for an England which is more DCAU than it is MY England... :) There is a Lost Chapters coming up in the next few weeks or so which will give you a taster of English living, Alfred style..

[Jasmerrin]

Very nice issue. I liked everything about it.
I especially want to comment on Barbara's motivation. Although I always liked the character, I hated how it seemed as if she was just not motivated enough. It seemed as though she just wanted to be a do-gooder one day, and I hated the contrast to the darker motivations of the other Dark Knight family members. This new motivation seems more... fitting.

Again, awesome job.

[Eddie G.]

I didn't dig it all man. The story and a good chunk of the plot points like the prototype suit just felt fan fictiony in nature. Obviously this is fan fiction however I think DKA should strive to seem like it's part of the DCAU continuity. This didn't seem like a part of the DCAU, it seemed like a fanfiction. Maybe if you try to be less ambitious and not go for these "put everyone through hell and change things" around plots it would help.

The characters mostly fell flat for me. Batman's inner thoughts were alright, but it seemed that they were going over the top without hitting anything new or interesting about the character.

Batgirl just totally fell flat. Her monologue didn't feel like it was coming from the character at all, it felt like it was coming from the writer. She just seems so distant from herself and her reality. The whole monologue seems like a planned essay of self realization instead of a heart felt explanation of her actions after a battle. I also loath the little one liner she had "I'm your worst nightmare. Bring it on." Come on man... come on... I mean don't get me wrong I'm a man who likes Batman having campy one liners once in a blue moon... but come on.

[Azbatz]

You've made Scarecrow as villainous as the Joker in the flashbacks of ROTJ. I hope the next time we see the Joker looking how he does in JL and ROTJ flashbacks and is much more sinister than your previous TNBA take. I would also like to see a even darker tale on the Joker than the ROTJ flashbacks. Let's see him covered in blood and killing millions of Gotham Citizens someday. :evil: And your other rogue gallery takes. Can't wait.

That was great to see Barbara cured for a bit and the BB suit. Barb can't walk again. Can't imagine she'd be wearing the BB suit as underwear in the future? :confused: So that hasn't been explained entirely.

Who is the unknown that goes from Bruce's mom to this weird guy? It couldn't be Bruce.

You vowed never to bring life back to the monster. I'm glade he did make a day of reckoning. I hope it was the last time.

The only thing I still don't agree with is Gordon being suicidal. Well, I'll give you this -- you do a damn fine job in arguing the case by adding the revelation background of why Batgirl was full time in TNBA. If you've read Frank Miller's movie draft of Year One, you'll find that Gordon is suicidal in that as well. So I blame him too and he's the Godfather of Batman as far as I'm concerned.

You nailed Batman persona and character to perfection as usual and same with Scarecrow. Particularly love the art of Scarecrow. Now the batcave really is a tomb, hence Jonathan Crane AKA the Scarecrow's rotting corpse. Fell free to bring him back as a zombie in BB Stripped.

I've always liked SJJ's horror/religious/science-fiction approach on Batman. It makes it very original and enjoyable to the eye. Also liked the other retired writer/colorist too. Interesting interview.

All in all, I liked the previous issue more. But hell, that goes for some DCAU two-part animated episodes as well. Almost forgot, the cover was great.

[James]

I didn't dig it all man. The story and a good chunk of the plot points like the prototype suit just felt fan fictiony in nature. Obviously this is fan fiction however I think DKA should strive to seem like it's part of the DCAU continuity. This didn't seem like a part of the DCAU, it seemed like a fanfiction. Maybe if you try to be less ambitious and not go for these "put everyone through hell and change things" around plots it would help. A funny contrasts of wants their Eddie. You want it to be less fan fictiony in it's sort of fan retentiveness (for instance the use of the suit) and yet you want it to be closer to DCAU. :)

As I've said before. DKA is a sort of weird mix of trying to remain close to DCAU and yet evolve from what TNBA was.. to be a sort of hybrid of comic and cartoon. We said we'd do that at the beginning of this project and have consistently done that. It's a mix of serious stories, evolved characters (away from their TNBA counterparts) and fan fun. We are, afterall, fanfiction.. we would never be so arrogant to presume otherwise. We try and cater for fans and casual readers. Ian started this venture to sort of fill in the gaps that were left between TNBA and BB. We still are trying to do that. Believe it or not, in this continuity, Batman Beyond is still on track. :)



The characters mostly fell flat for me. Batman's inner thoughts were alright, but it seemed that they were going over the top without hitting anything new or interesting about the character. Seems some liked what it did, some like yourself felt it was old turf. That's cool, can't please everyone.



Batgirl just totally fell flat. Her monologue didn't feel like it was coming from the character at all, it felt like it was coming from the writer. She just seems so distant from herself and her reality. The whole monologue seems like a planned essay of self realization instead of a heart felt explanation of her actions after a battle. Well I won't deny the monologue is very "monologue" and quite far away from the TNBA Barbara. However, I felt the character was evolving enough to do this, to give her moments of seriousness. She is an intelligent and educated character, in moments like this, I don't see why she has to retain her kid like attitude. As the story tries to point out, her go happy silly nature isn't a reflection of her intelligence or articulation, simple the excitement and freedom from a constant burden of fear for her father.

I can't help wondering if it feels less in character because Batgirl gets so little serious treatment until Batman Beyond. We don't really see her under true pressure and we know she's intelligent. For me, she seemed like someone who could monologue... I wouldn't do the same really for Tim, or Joker.. or Killer Croc.. ;) I felt Barbara is deeper, and she had a big story to tell. She had just had a self revelation.. oh well, if that didn't work for you, it didn't work! :)



I also loath the little one liner she had "I'm your worst nightmare. Bring it on." Come on man... come on... I mean don't get me wrong I'm a man who likes Batman having campy one liners once in a blue moon... but come on. Aw, come on, live a little! :D Why can't Barbara have a cheesy one liner just for once? How many times she have to spotlight in true Dark Knight style? ;)

Sorry you didn't like it Eddie. I'm not spending my time being all defensive - I hate writers who can't take negative comments. It's all cool. I appreciate you being so candid. With all feedback it's taken on board and considered when the next issue is done, so none of it's ignored. Even if there are some points I don't agree with. ;) Afterall, I'm not writing it for myself. :)



I especially want to comment on Barbara's motivation. Although I always liked the character, I hated how it seemed as if she was just not motivated enough. It seemed as though she just wanted to be a do-gooder one day, and I hated the contrast to the darker motivations of the other Dark Knight family members. This new motivation seems more... fitting. Always bugged me too. It's odd to see a character go from serious, to, well, airhead.. and I wanted some justification for that and a way to bring the two personalities together. While she's a little more burdened with inability, she's more like her "old" self (although we do see sparks of old Barb's on occasions - hence the cheesy line Eddie refers to). I always wanted to deal with that issue as we tried to evolve the character into something more deserving of her comic counterpart..


You vowed never to bring life back to the monster. I'm glade he did make a day of reckoning. I hope it was the last time.

Yeah I did, but I lie on occasions just to make it a little less predictable. ;) If you can still respect any word of truth to come out of my mouth, it's this. THERE WILL BE NO MORE MONSTER.

Seriously, the next four to five issues are - like this - basically slowly tieing up my story arcs while pushing the comic towards it's on screen story arc. The monster issue, Bruce's past and indentity have all be resolved. We have other issues to deal with yet!

Originally this was going to be a two part story in a different way. Bruce was going to be fighting the power of Scarecrow in an abandoned warehouse to which he has the revelations about himself and defeats the Scarecrow leaving him brain wiped. The next tale would have him useing Scarecrow's devices to mentally attack Barbara in the same way as to get her to face her truths about being Batgirl and come back on his side. The suit would be a suit he designed that gave her full mobility.

I felt the story was just too much.. the cliche of Scarecrow being brainwiped, Bruce creating a costume which could perpetually negate a spinal injury and worst of all, while I love the idea of Bruce poisoning Barbara for "her own good", it just seemed to push the character too far and had a sort of mental rape feel which just felt awkward and hard to justify. I feel this worked the two stories into something far more interesting.



The only thing I still don't agree with is Gordon being suicidal. Well, I'll give you this -- you do a damn fine job in arguing the case by adding the revelation background of why Batgirl was full time in TNBA. If you've read Frank Miller's movie draft of Year One, you'll find that Gordon is suicidal in that as well. So I blame him too and he's the Godfather of Batman as far as I'm concerned. Lol. Yeah, I'm surprised that didn't bug other people. We try and be contentious at times, but indeed that was "on the edge". Some would argue humanizing a cartoon character beyond what you can truely relate too. However, it is a natural progression of his general characteristics. Obsessive worker, constantly fatigued (more so in the comics), high pressure, no life... it seems a possible outcome.



Who is the unknown that goes from Bruce's mom to this weird guy? It couldn't be Bruce When Bruce was seeing his mother, he was misreading his own mixed up head. It wasn't his mother disapproving of Bruce deviating from his promise to her by having a family it was young little self loathing Bruce, whose hatred himself for being unable to stop his parents death. He wants to forcibly seperate Bruce from his friends because he feels he doesn't deserve friendships as he failed his parents. Self abuse. The reasons for Bruce's distance from his friends aren't to do with personal honour, they are to do with personal self hatred.



All in all, I liked the previous issue more. But hell, that goes for some DCAU two-part animated episodes as well. Almost forgot, the cover was great. Well part two never lives up to part one does it? ;)Glad you liked overall. If you want to get more into Scarecrow's motivations, read the current Lost Chapter on the website!

[Eddie G.]

A funny contrasts of wants their Eddie. You want it to be less fan fictiony in it's sort of fan retentiveness (for instance the use of the suit) and yet you want it to be closer to DCAU. :) Well it's not that I so much want it to be closer to the DCAU, I think a "Holy crap, everything's different, tiny footprints in her brain" type of story can work, hell I'm a big defender of DC's current crisis. It's just that I'm not really enjoying what you guys have been throwing out and I'm not sure why. I think it just might help to take it back to the more basic stories of Batman fights bad guy and possibly have a small little caper to go into it.


Well I won't deny the monologue is very "monologue" and quite far away from the TNBA Barbara. However, I felt the character was evolving enough to do this, to give her moments of seriousness. She is an intelligent and educated character, in moments like this, I don't see why she has to retain her kid like attitude. As the story tries to point out, her go happy silly nature isn't a reflection of her intelligence or articulation, simple the excitement and freedom from a constant burden of fear for her father.

I can't help wondering if it feels less in character because Batgirl gets so little serious treatment until Batman Beyond. We don't really see her under true pressure and we know she's intelligent. For me, she seemed like someone who could monologue... I wouldn't do the same really for Tim, or Joker.. or Killer Croc.. ;) I felt Barbara is deeper, and she had a big story to tell. She had just had a self revelation.. oh well, if that didn't work for you, it didn't work! :) Listen I love characters changing and evolving but it has to be natural and it has to have context. I didn't even have a problem with the monologue in concept really, it's just that it seems too articulate and thought out to be occuring right after a battle, and once again she feels so distant from everything. It's one thing to be serious but I think she lacked an amount of humanity in that monologue even if in concept she is showing a great deal of emotion and humanity.


Aw, come on, live a little! :D Why can't Barbara have a cheesy one liner just for once? How many times she have to spotlight in true Dark Knight style? ;)Hey, I'm actually currently writing a similar project to your own where I couldn't help to have Batman shooting out funny one liners. It's just that what she said sounded so cheesy and off in how it put two different catch phrases together... it was like... why?

Anyway though keep up the good work, I love the artwork, I'd honestly love to see your work on an original project.

EDIT: My ability to speak English is lacking in the morning.

[James]

Well it's that I so much want it to be closer to the DCAU, I think a "Holy crap, everything's different, tiny footprints in her brain" type of story can work, hell I'm a big defender of DC's current crisis. It's just that I'm not really enjoying what you guys have been throwing out and I'm not sure why. I think it just might help to take it back to the more basic stories of Batman fights bad guy and possibly have a small little caper to go into it.
Eventually we will. The next few issues will wrap up the arcs DKA has created and then everything should be relatively square. I'm afraid they're pretty epical stuff as I sort of bring everything to a climax.

Problem with DKA is it's a bit of a rollercoaster. I suppose that's me - I just like seeing characters evolve realistically rather than "stand alone" which is more the cartoon style.


Listen I love characters changing and evolving but it has to be natural and it has to have context. I didn't even have a problem with the monologue in concept really, it's just that it seems to articulate and thought out to be occuring right after a battle, and once again she feels so distant from everything.
I understand fully what you mean mate. No, it's not very realistic in some respects, but then monologues really aren't. Quite honestly in retropect, I would love to have had more space to show a bit of duration between Scarecrow falling over. I would liked to have been a small silence where no one moves. Bruce caught in the horror of what's just happened, Barbara sitting, slightly stunned. Don't have that much space in 9 pages... so like the newstrip, you end up without that lack of necessary slow pacing some stories need. It's a great shame. It's more frustrating in the strip than the comic, but it's evident in both when you have to fire off a monologue to explain actions or exposition but you don't have the time to set it up as you would on screen or in a full comic so it flows.

In all honestly, that's my biggest frustration with DKA, it's oh so hard to pace in such a small space and I have a tendency to want to add more than less... with people wanting their money worth after a month wait, I think they want something they can read rather than zoom through which was a minor problem with the Titans issue.. fun, but no substance.

I don't think we utterly disagree here, I know what's ailing you here now.


It's one thing to be serious but I think she lacked an amount of humanity in that monologue even if in concept she is showing a great deal of emotion and humanity.
To me, when I write these, I picture it as a film. Barbara has, in the past few hours gone through a lot and had a brain toyed with in several ways. She's reeling from that and as Bruce comes closer, still slightly not there, she just lets out what she's been hiding from him and herself. He never knew about Jim's personal life - as we don't. I felt a neat and almost robotic flow sort of felt right. She's not really talking to him per se, she's just voicing what she now realises so clearly.

Anyhow, that's the intent, if it didn't work, it didn't work. I'll bear your point in mind. Always nice to talk to writers!



Hey, I'm actually currently writing something similar project to your own where I couldn't help to have Batman shooting out funny one liners. It's just that what she said sounded so cheesy and off in how it put two different catch phrases together... it was like... why?
Well I look forward to your project. I'd be fascinated to talk to see how you approach writing this sort of stuff. I don't mind constructive feedback like yours.. you get some - off site - which is like "god, that sucks, it's like so not what I want in Batman.." and you're thinking.. hmm, I do this in my freetime, for no pay and simply for fun.. you'd think I was taking money for some of the comments you get... that part of fan comic writing isn't fun!



Anyway though keep up the good work, I love the artwork, I'd honestly love to see your work on an original project.
I have a couple floating in my head at the moment... with freelancing, end of university and DKA, it's just hard to find the time. I've done some work for another guy's online comic, which is yet to be released, while it's not written by me, it shows my artwork away from DKA. DKA isn't really how I like to draw, and I hope in the future to show both writing and art which is more me, than working from anothers idea!

[Azbatz]

Yeah I did, but I lie on occasions just to make it a little less predictable. If you can still respect any word of truth to come out of my mouth, it's this. THERE WILL BE NO MORE MONSTER.I understand why you brought the monster back; it had to do with more of the two year DKA anniversary than the storyline. But again, it worked.

When Bruce was seeing his mother, he was misreading his own mixed up head. It wasn't his mother disapproving of Bruce deviating from his promise to her by having a family it was young little self loathing Bruce, whose hatred himself for being unable to stop his parents death. He wants to forcibly separate Bruce from his friends because he feels he doesn't deserve friendships as he failed his parents. Self abuse. The reasons for Bruce's distance from his friend aren't to do with personal honor, they are to do with personal self hatred..Oh so that's Bruce, that makes sense. I thought it was his imaginary brother at first. Yeah Bruce does hate himself, but it's obviously more complex then the way Gordon hates himself.

Hey, I'm actually currently writing something similar project to your own where I couldn't help to have Batman shooting out funny one liners.
Personally I enjoy the classic BTAS one-liners repeated the best. I mean Batman doesn't share Bruce Wayne intellects of vocabulary. I think that's part of the disguise. He's more focused on tossing the punches and dogging the bullets.

you get some - off site - which is like "god, that sucks, it's like so not what I want in Batman.." and you're thinking.. hmm, I do this in my freetime, for no pay and simply for fun.. you'd think I was taking money for some of the comments you get... that part of the fan comic writing isn't fun!..You're referring to my comments about the Nightwing Special. I just came here to start a fight originally and get banned. But now I respect everyone involved and compare the comic to the crap we get today. Part of that problem is to blame the resurrection recycle character crap. Yes, I did comment earlier how I wanted Scarecrow back as a zombie. Yes, there are always going to be some exceptions... but you get what I mean. I just think it's mediocre writing when you can't leave the dead alone. At any rate, I respect everyone involved. Looking back, yeah that was very off the wall and stupid. Any hoot, I'll shut up.

[Kylewayne]

Wow! I am amazed at your talent SJJ. Your artwork has drastically improved since the first issue and I so was enraptured with this story involving the Scarecrow! I am pleased to see that Batman and Bruce Wayne are ONE! , thus no duality between them. The Batman side has finally accepted his fears and realized that NO ONE IS PERFECT! =D Splendid job mate!

I noticed that Barbara Gordon has gotten prettier over the issues *stabs you for making her so damn pretty* Sue me, I'm a Catwoman lover^^!
I was so happy and bouncy to see that BATMAN/BRUCE are back as one and have defeated their demons! The bat family can be reunited! I must admit I was growing a bit tired of seeing Batman/Bruce going crazy and not himself. I was so thrilled that he is finally back! I was bouncing to see Barb in a bat suit again! =D

Ooooo! Bruce looks so sexy and hot on this page:

http://wf.toonzone.net/DKA/issues/15/10.php

And you need a brutal beating for making his chin so HUGE on this page:

http://wf.toonzone.net/DKA/issues/15/07.php :D


Frozen aka Mathew Spaull, I LOVE YOU for drawing page 12 " Romance and the Bat" and the cover of DKA! :

http://wf.toonzone.net/DKA/issues/15/12.php

Catwoman looks hot! All of Batman/Bruce's past love interests. Btw, Bird Boy likes the goods on Cat ;)

Salvor, your unique Pink Pantherish style amuses me with page 15 of DKA =D *glomps you*

Also, I love the colors of this issue by Kristian Trigwell. The colors are superb! Crips and clear. I have no complaints whatsoever! Keep doing a good job all!

[James]

You're referring to my comments about the Nightwing Special. I just came here to start a fight originally and get banned. But now I respect everyone involved and compare the comic to the crap we get today. Part of that problem is to blame the resurrection recycle character crap. Yes, I did comment earlier how I wanted Scarecrow back as a zombie. Yes, there are always going to be some exceptions... but you get what I mean. I just think it's mediocre writing when you can't leave the dead alone. At any rate, I respect everyone involved. Looking back, yeah that was very off the wall and stupid. Any hoot, I'll shut up. Actually, I wasn't referring to you specifically :p I really wouldn't be that *****y! If I was referring to a regular here I would have the guts to name them, don't you worry! There have been a couple of people outside Wf who have made comments which are simply just attitude rather than honest or fair comment.. and that bugs me. Anyway, that's interesting insight Azbatz, I appreciate the honesty. Over the past few months your comments have been honest and objective - that's what is important. I'm very happy with the comments we get here, not because they are often positive :p, but because they are not afraid to be honest. In return I try and do the courtesy of responding to all those who take the time to give us feedback. Thanks again!


Salvor, your unique Pink Pantherish style amuses me with page 15 of DKA =D *glomps you* Sal will be making a brief yet welcome return to DKA doing a short story for
me in #16, so watch out for more of his work!



And you need a brutal beating for making his chin so HUGE on this page: Lol. Yes, he does have a Tickishness about him. I try to keep things consistent, but as a side project in a busy schedule and against a clock, sometimes they go off my model. There are a couple of Barb I ain't too happy with on the final page, but they are the breaks you have to accept if you are going to take that step and keep a comic going for over two years!

[Mynd Hed]

I've got to say that I noticed Batman's chinny-chin-chin in that frame as well. (-: Other than that, it was pretty good stuff-- nothing like some Beyond foreshadowing as far as fanwankery goes in my book. (-: Scarecrow was suitably ghoulish, although his demise seemed slightly anticlimactic for some reason... maybe just because he never really got to reveal any greater plan beyond screwing with various Bat-heads a little. Casualties of a short format, I guess.
I caught the scent of cheese in the air with certain lines as well, but it was all in fun. It's odd, I'm usually the first to freak out at the slightest hint of camp, but it seemed to work here, maybe because you kept it in balance with the seriousness and didn't overdo it.

[Phantasm]

I don't see why everyone has a problem with Barbara's cheesy line. I mean, its Barb!Its characteristic for her to say that! And it was a nice balance to have her do some soul digging afterwards. Her explanation for taking up the mantle of the Bat was deep, regardless of the fact that, as some have already mentioned, it lacked character. It looked like a blunt,to the point narration from the author of the comic and not something comming out of the character herself.Barb...she isn't the kind of person who walks around voicing her thoughts.None of the members of the Batfamily are in fact.

I dunno...for some reason this didn't seem to wrap up what was hinted to ocurr in the first part. This had a sense of cutting the entire story short.The plot wasset up quite nicely in the first part but then didn't really meet a satsifying resolution. Nothing was given enough time to develop.One moment Barb is deeply stuck in fearful nightmares and the next she's up and battling the Scarecrow.She's a superhero sure, her ability to adapt to situations must be a good one, I understand but...she's also human...I doubt anyone who'd just regained the usage of their legs would take it SO casually....

Well, at least we have Brucey back!!And yeah, he does look handsome in most of the panels.I'm loving the shades of blue used on the Batsuit and the dull tones in the backdrop reflected the mood of the comic just fine. The art was fantastc, as always and had a characteristic sense of fluidity to it.

I for one am looking forward to stories beyond this 'epic' of a storyarc and would be more than delighted to settle for something more...mundane in the traditional Batman manner. Tim and Alfred...yeah...very much looking forward to that...and whatever that is up with Dick at the moment....

Oh and I must say, I absolutely LOVED that Jim Gordon pic shrouded in the dark! It's just...LOVELY with its dark, raw, gritty tones and ragged lines...Very Moody!

And lol! Savor's Nigtwing and Batman painting rocked all the while adding a nice contrast to the griity tones of the previous Jim Gordon drawing.

Andi...She's only remembered as the Phantasm.Sad...but seeing as how all other women are in their not-so-normal attire...I'll let it pass!;) :p

This wasn't the best DKA issue but...I'm sure there's good stuff right around the corner...:)

[Wing Zero]

I'll keep it short since I pretty much agree with Phantasm. The story did seem to end kind of quickly and some of the panels got kinda confusing with all the bubbles everywhere. I actually had to sit and think for a moment when the monster showed up because I didn't connect that it was Bruce forcing the fear onto Scarecrow. I'm on painkillers and antibiotics so that may have attributed to my slowness :p

Really liked the artwork and as Phantasm said, that Blue you guys used for Batman was great, it looks like a nice, rich, deep blue. Beautiful. The predecessor to the Beyond suit showing up was a nice touch and I for one DO like Barb's little cheesy line. I mean she just jumped into a high tech batsuit that can let her walk, defend herself, and she's ready to slug it out with scarecrow! The line works fine lol. I do echo that it would be nice to have a good old simpler Batman detective story or something again, but the nice thing about DKA is that you can do whatever you want so there's also reason to dive deeper into the characters than the animated series ever did.

Also, just in case the DKA team doesn't get this enough already, here's a big thanks for volunteering your time on creating a great piece of fanfiction and interesting artwork. Thanks for ALL your current projects! I'd pay the team if I was rich :D

[James]

Since you three generally echo similar statements, I'll reply pretty much to you all.

Yes, unfortunately, the story doesn't follow with the same pacing as last issue. Nothing was cut out per se, but I knew in my head from the start it had a lot to get in. Could have been longer? Definately. Maybe not even any extra stuff, as such, but as I said earlier, a little work with the pacing.. time to bring Barb down properly from her high (she was still being affected as we see her talking to Jim again, however this time they weren't working against her as she wasn't scared any more. The suit gave her the confidence to believe in herself once more.) No excuses, some extra room would have had time to maybe made that clearer, given space to see that she had peaked with the drug and was slowly coming down anyhow, but as we all understand, room was an issue.

But yes, pacing is a problem and I believe many of the issues you point out are to do with pacing... slow build up and wham bam it's over. Why is this? Two reasons. Firstly, I wanted a second part which was more action and dialogue to counter the more suspense/thriller. I want to try and offer as much diversity in our issue.

Secondly and more importantly, I want to tie up the arcs we started before people get tired. I like DKA being "different" but I also recognise the need in the audience and the book itself to get back to what Batman is really about. It's certainly more there than before as the character arc starts to resolve itself. So, there is an issue of patience. I try to find a balance between not simply ending character arcs unrealistically (like say, "bingo, the monsters dead, all is well..) but I don't want to span out the "uncomfortable seperation period" any longer than we need to. With only around 10 pages per issue, it doesn't give us room to really give each story the pace it deserves... which is a shame, but life.

So those are the reasons and I can utterly understand your standpoints. I hope it was an enjoyable read. I suppose I would rather you were left thinking "I want more" than "that was a waste of my time.." :)

Sorry Phantasm about the lack of. erm, Phantasm... I bet Frozen is kicking himself now for missing identifying the character on the pin up!

Glad you liked Salvor's work.. more of that next issue.

Mynd's point about the Scarecrow, yeah I agree, would loved to have dealt into his mind a little more, but with 9 pages per issue, space is limited.. he's story began in the Xmas Holiday special and has sort of ended now... there are more reprecussions to come... in the meantime, we have a Lost Chapters episode currently on the site which deals with some of Scarecrow's motivations and we have an epilogue this week which deals with the aftermath. It's my attempt in filling the holes we simply have no time to illustrate! Mynd and myself are going through the epilogue text story as we speak and we hope to have it out later this week.

Wing Zero - thanks for the kind words. Have a read off the drugs, let me know how it is! :) It is a busy issue. I'd hope that's better than a speed read story! There is LOTS there in this issue, maybe as you say, TOO much, but I think there is enough stuff on a second read that will make it more enjoyable - especially if you read the text adventures!

Glad some people liked the cheesy line. Something that works for some and doesn't for others. Always fun to have a little controversy!

[adoptedBatpuppy]

Nice, and Dark. I liked how you brought Scarecrow back to terrorize Barbara and Bruce. The only thing I don't understand is what Barbara saw and heard in the batcave, was that a dream? How come her Batsuit looked like Terry's? Otherwise, a good ending and nice art cover! :sweat:

[James]

The only thing I don't understand is what Barbara saw and heard in the batcave, was that a dream?
As you recall, Bruce poisoned her with a small dose of Scarecrow's fear drug. She was still suffering a little of the side effects as she was battling him.



How come her Batsuit looked like Terry's?
This suit is the prototype to which will evolve into one that Bruce uses for himself in "Rebirth" and finally goes to Terry in the same adventure. Same basic technical design and some strength enhancing characteristics, lacks all the futuristic thrills of flight, built in batarangs etc.

[Salvor]

Salvor, your unique Pink Pantherish style amuses me with page 15 of DKA =D *glomps you* Thanks Kylie. Always a pleasure to amuse you ;)


And lol! Savor's Nigtwing and Batman painting rocked all the while adding a nice contrast to the griity tones of the previous Jim Gordon drawing.Thanks Phantasm. I was not aware of James' Gordon pic, so I was as intrigued as you were by such a sharp contrast!

[James]

Thanks Kylie. Always a pleasure to amuse you ;)

Thanks Phantasm. I was not aware of James' Gordon pic, so I was as intrigued as you were by such a sharp contrast!
That's what I've always enjoyed about working along side you, is that your work is so stylised that neither of our work really competes, it compliments by doing it's own thing. I hate to be considered a "second class Ronzeau" or you a "second class Mclean..".

Diversity is certainly the spice of life....

If people liked Salvor's take on the pinups, go to the DrawingBoard and check out his recent Superman. Lovely bit of linework!

[LeatherWings]

Great issue! It wasn't your best, but is was still good. For those who found the demon mom/little Bruce thing confusing, its all in his head if you haven't figured that out, Batman's going psycho, duh. Anyways it was nice seeing Babs walk again for awhile, hope you resolve that issue soon, or else there's gonna be more gripes about her going from handicapped to walking and back in forth, and back in forth, I don't mind if it takes awhile, but others seem that they would. Just a question, is Nightwing coming up soon, since they're looking for the family, I assume Robin and Alfred are coming up, since it says there traveling to England, then Nightwing after that or is he gonna be left out?(Sorry big Nightwing fan, and its sounds like the bat family's getting back together.)

[James]

Great issue! It wasn't your best, but is was still good. For those who found the demon mom/little Bruce thing confusing, its all in his head if you haven't figured that out, Batman's going psycho, duh. Anyways it was nice seeing Babs walk again for awhile, hope you resolve that issue soon, or else there's gonna be more gripes about her going from handicapped to walking and back in forth, and back in forth, I don't mind if it takes awhile, but others seem that they would. Just a question, is Nightwing coming up soon, since they're looking for the family, I assume Robin and Alfred are coming up, since it says there traveling to England, then Nightwing after that or is he gonna be left out?(Sorry big Nightwing fan, and its sounds like the bat family's getting back together.)
All the "DKA" plot threads will be resolved in the next four issues or so.

As for for Nightwing, yes, he guests next issue. Don't fear, Nighty is indeed here... :)

Sorry for the delay on the strip, it will be back in the next few days as well as another Lost Chapter...

[LeatherWings]

YAY! The return of the flying Grayson!

[Phantasm]

YAY! The return of the flying Grayson!YAY!Indeed. Its his portrayal in DKA that I am thoroughly satisfied with.That Nightwing special was one of the best DKA issues till now.

[James]

YAY!Indeed. Its his portrayal in DKA that I am thoroughly satisfied with.That Nightwing special was one of the best DKA issues till now.
One still throwing a bit of controversy on the net. :) Nevertheless I really like it. DKA doesn't try and emulate Timm's work and Romain's artwork in particular is so defined and uncompromising it fulfils that mandate.

Yes, Nightwing will be a regular character for the foreseeable future.

[Frozen]

Frozen aka Mathew Spaull, I LOVE YOU for drawing page 12 " Romance and the Bat" and the cover of DKA! :

http://wf.toonzone.net/DKA/issues/15/12.php (http://wf.toonzone.net/DKA/issues/15/12.php)

Catwoman looks hot! All of Batman/Bruce's past love interests. Btw, Bird Boy likes the goods on Cat ;)

Thanks Kylewayne. :) I really wanted to do a good job this issue - after taking nearly two years off from illustration to concentrate on concept design and storyboarding, it's a challenge to do this kind of work again... :sweat:

And, yes, Catwoman does indeed have "the goods"... ;)



Andi...She's only remembered as the Phantasm.Sad...but seeing as how all other women are in their not-so-normal attire...I'll let it pass!;) :p

Well, I thought with Selina, Talia and Barb being in their "work clothes", I thought it was appropriate for Andrea too...

Just curious to know, Phantasm - do you feel there's an improvement in the cover work since that shocker I did for issue #13? You were (rightly) quite scathing about it, and I'm keen to know if you feel I'm making progress... :)

[James]

Just curious to know, Phantasm - do you feel there's an improvement in the cover work since that shocker I did for issue #13? You were (rightly) quite scathing about it, and I'm keen to know if you feel I'm making progress... :)
My name ain't Phantasm, but I still support the #13 cover. I think after a series of very serious issues and events, this cover reflects the "breather" issue that the Titans story was. The style composition and bright colours - IMO - sort of helped shift the gears, so to speak!

[Frozen]

My name ain't Phantasm, but I still support the #13 cover. I think after a series of very serious issues and events, this cover reflects the "breather" issue that the Titans story was. The style composition and bright colours - IMO - sort of helped shift the gears, so to speak!
Once again, SJJ, my thanks for your continued support... :)

I can only suppose Phantasm feels if he can't say anything good about the cover for #15, he'd best not say anything at all... :D

[Phantasm]

I can only suppose Phantasm feels if he can't say anything good about the cover for #15, he'd best not say anything at all... :D
lol!

Oh! Well, I didn't realize I hadn't commented on the cover this time round. This one is very nice in that it does an accurate job of displaying the tone of the issue, which is basically about fear. Very ominous in compostion with the Scarecrow advancing towards Batgirl, the moon behind them throwing everything in moody silhouettes. Scary.:eek:

Though it looks...too clean with the perfect lines and exact outline to everything. It may have conveyed the emotion of fear well had it been more unfocused and not so sharp and crystal clear...So that it would give overall a sense of vague awareness of the suroundings...and have only the Scarecrow prominently crisp and clear to look at...:shrug:

[Frozen]

lol!

Oh! Well, I didn't realize I hadn't commented on the cover this time round. This one is very nice in that it does an accurate job of displaying the tone of the issue, which is basically about fear. Very ominous in compostion with the Scarecrow advancing towards Batgirl, the moon behind them throwing everything in moody silhouettes. Scary.:eek:
Thank you. :) Nice to know I'm making progress :D


Though it looks...too clean with the perfect lines and exact outline to everything. It may have conveyed the emotion of fear well had it been more unfocused and not so sharp and crystal clear...So that it would give overall a sense of vague awareness of the suroundings...and have only the Scarecrow prominently crisp and clear to look at...:shrug:
Yeah, yeah, I can see where you're coming from there. Having just read the latest Black Widow TBP from Marvel comics, drawn by one of my favourites Bill Sienkewicz (love his work , can't spell his name...) it strikes me that his more energetic, scratchy style may have matched the mood you describe, as opposed to my crisper, cleaner style - maybe one to bear in mind for the future, eh? ;)

[James]

Yeah, yeah, I can see where you're coming from there. Having just read the latest Black Widow TBP from Marvel comics, drawn by one of my favourites Bill Sienkewicz (love his work , can't spell his name...) it strikes me that his more energetic, scratchy style may have matched the mood you describe, as opposed to my crisper, cleaner style - maybe one to bear in mind for the future, eh? ;)Tough guy to work like. Very clever penciller and inker. But we all live and learn, I find going back and looking at earlier issues a painful experience, being filled with ideas and methods I wish I had taken both in writing and art...

As long as we learn from our experiences, that's all that matters.

We'll have to show people the alternate covers here. See what people think! Did we choose the right one? :p

I have some space this week to do some fun work rather than freelance, so I think I'll push on the WAY delayed #16...

[Frozen]

We'll have to show people the alternate covers here. See what people think! Did we choose the right one? :p


Yeah. let's get 'em up! :D

[James]

I'll upload them and place them into this thread this week!